Magic: the Gathering

[lucid jewel]

and mabey some other sets before

[wanton hazel]

sure but Avatar had physical sealed pools

so I would have expected it

Lorwyn didn't

[wanton hazel]

finally have a chance to try elves in a sealed pool now, won my first round, so that's nice

best of 3 version might have been more fun though, idk

probably not during the work day

[dense orchid]

Are elves the meta in Lorwyn sealed?

I keep on seeing people talk about their elf decks here

[wanton hazel]

I don't know, honestly? I think at straight prerelease it's harder to have a 'meta' because you can't control what cards you get, but I definitely lost to a strong elves deck once

but I think with the Arena double-seeded packs we might see one emerge

[turbid falcon]

There's more a meta in draft than in sealed, but perhaps

[leaden tide]

Yeah it largely depends on what you open and how synergistic your pieces are.

I'd say on average, green is probably the strongest color in this format, but you might always just open bad green cards.

[rare sparrow]

In sealed, the “meta” is generally “play whatever colors have the strongest cards, especially rares”. That does mean you’ll generally be more likely to play certain colors more than others based on where the powerful cards are, but it entirely depends on what you open. You have very little control, unlike in draft

[surreal stag]

I had a lot of fun in sealed but I also had a lot of combat trick soft removals so those helped a lot

Not many good rares in my packs but I digress

[leaden tide]

Saw an idea for Bre Stoutarm on Reddit that could be fun:

Only problem is that there's not much support for it. All in all there's 8 cards with Coward synergy, and one of them isn't in the deck's colors. My current direction for the deck is to have a sub-theme of angels. They could potentially mesh a little bit, but there's less Angel Warriors than you'd expect. So I'd wanna figure out a way to get them to mesh....

[upper moon]

That's also really expensive for rw tbh

Ig red has some ramp

[leaden tide]

Yeah they would essentially be finishers.

But also I want to include some high MV angels.

And while Bre's ability can turn large life-gain into ramp essentially, the life-gain theme also needs a lot of support to hit large creatures like this.

[upper moon]

Ah, gotcha

[surreal stag]

both of these in Arthur Merigold Knight for a wild board swing

in lala land i have one of my many ways to double the arthur trigger lol

[wanton hazel]

I'm thinking of trying to make a toughness matters commander thing

I have a walls of bang sing se card and it's just such a cool one

[charred ruin]

These both look like fun finishers for my warriors deck

[lucid jewel]

https://archidekt.com/decks/18413717/i_like_big_toughness_and_i_cannot_lie this is glams version

[wanton hazel]

I was looking at something like that (specifically starting with the Abzan Armor deck)

[lucid jewel]

Thats what ill be doing too

Starting with abzan armour then adding things like doran and wall

[surreal stag]

i once again will add my buddy loves his big booty deck lol

[leaden tide]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/on-turtles-faeries-and-the-lorwyn-eclipsed-prerelease

All the rares and mythics are now officially spoiled lmao
https://scryfall.com/sets/tmt

I will say, this doesn't look as awful as Spider-Man by a long shot. Still not gonna play as much, but it's so far nowhere near as New-Yorky.

And there's some interesting card designs. These I wouldn't at all mind running next to other Magic cards.

[tepid stirrup]

https://tenor.com/view/khaled-dj-khaled-you-played-yourself-gif-9271168

Spoiler season spoiling itself due to overexuberance couldn't have happened to a more deserving set

Except maybe Spider-man

[leaden tide]

It also, strangely, feels thematic that a ninja set would sneak into another set.

While the set's looking better than Spider-Man, it's still got way too many turtles.

[tepid stirrup]

https://tenor.com/view/ayy-sea-turtles-pirates-of-the-caribbean-gif-2813627054324826566

[leaden tide]

The number-crunch suggests there's an uncommon version of each turtle, in addition to a rare and a mythic, and three ||team-up|| versions of each one. That's at least 6 of each turtle in the main set! Even Aang only got 4 versions

[leaden tide]

https://tenor.com/view/pirates-pirates-of-the-caribbean-will-sea-turtles-turtles-gif-13437253181383811218

[leaden tide]

On the other hand, this is now a real Magic card:

[lucid jewel]

WAIT

thats kinda busted

IM PUTTING THAT IN TOUGHNESS MATTERS DECK!!!!

GLAM!!1

[leaden tide]

Oh trust me, that's my first thought as well

This is also a potential include, if you want more lifegain

Though it would be nice if the drain scaled a bit.

Also Splinter is just..an unironically good ninja card. Would go hard in a Jin Sakai list

Which, yeah that's a sentence that sure describes MtG

[lucid jewel]

||https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/5/1563592e-0f21-4488-a3ec-ca766386e423.jpg?1769006182|| uhhh

[leaden tide]

Eh, that will probably be a $5 at most, 6 mana cost means it's got nowhere near the legs Badgermole Cub does

[lucid jewel]

yaa it dosent its just interesting they are printing more of them

[leaden tide]

Yeah there's certain effects Wizards has been consciously printing more. Especially doubling and/or N+1 effects

[lucid jewel]

has the eternal set been spoiled at all yet

[leaden tide]

Just a few from the official previews.

The promo mix-ups were all from the main set.

[lucid jewel]

i dont see any other cards in whats been spoiled so far that would be decent in toughness matters just the two, the cow and the snek

[leaden tide]

Alright. My knee-jerk assesment of this set (based on the rares) is: More cooked than Spider-Man (the bar is in the sewer, Spider-Man didn't even touch the oven) but still a little under-baked. Too many turtles, but the rares don't feel as mechanically thin as the Spider-Man ones.

[lucid jewel]

this for me so far feeels much more like a mtg set

than spiderman ever did

[leaden tide]

Yeah. While the cow thing is....weird. Weird still feels way more Magic than this crap:

[fierce dragon]

again that is not very hard

[lucid jewel]

||https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/f/1f9bd4da-4626-40ba-95f4-14e3de36f989.jpg?1769006428|| mutagen tokens are interesting

feels again like you said glam they are trying to put some things out there simular to lander tokens which they can mabey use in the future

[plush bear]

it was fine here

[leaden tide]

Don't underestimate how much of a difference flavor and decent art make a concept.

[lucid jewel]

okay but that is a sick card tho

[leaden tide]

The art on the Spider-Man card just...looks and feels awkward.

[lucid jewel]

choose 4

even just the mechanics of that random other celebration card are sick

the spiderman set is not just artistically and creativly lacking, its mechanically lacking

[lucid jewel]

I also love how the cow head has the creature types "Ox Avatar"

[turbid falcon]

I get why they decided to just reveal everything

But... Sigh Lorwyn gets the short end of the stick

It hasn't even been released fully yet

[leaden tide]

Yeah. They said in the article they're gonna try and do something, maybe some kind of event, for Lorwyn.

But the whole thing is not great.

[surreal stag]

WOTC "We are going to make a new keyword to shorthand a specific ability (Vivid) and release it in Lorwyn Eclipsed"

WOTC "We are not going to use the new keyword on the next set of cards"

[leaden tide]

They did this last year too, when they made the Flurry ability word but didn't re-use it literally two sets later.

It's technically not a keyword, ability words don't represent actual mechanics themselves (unlike something like Flashback or Defender), they're mainly markers/flavor text to denote things that all share the same condition.

But yeah so far only Landfall has made it into deciduous ability word territory, Flurry and Vivid will stay in their respective boxes.

[upper moon]

I mean, I think it makes sense that unless they fully pivot into a keyword being decidous to not use it

It makes it seem a bit less complex for newer players to not see more keywords than necessary

[rare sparrow]

there's a card literally in the commander precons of ecl that doesn't use vivid

presumably because it's a reprint?

[surreal stag]

bloom tender is a reprint.....

[rare sparrow]

main set reprint i guess they treat differently

idk

it still doesn't make a lot of sense given bloom tender, ur right

[surreal stag]

"it still doesn't make a lot of sense" - WOTC

also curious as to why Bloom tender went from Rare to Mythic in LE

feels like a change for limited formats like draft and sealed to not print as many of them idk

[rare sparrow]

feels like just a card they know is in demand and will sell some packs

[leaden tide]

Same reason even the only half-decent dual lands get printed at rare.

Because even if they should be easier to find for the health of the game, making them rare sells packs.

[upper moon]

It is a sad fact that greed is almost always the reason behind the decisions wizards makes at this point

[surreal stag]

yea that does suck....anyways i need a cool way to frame my full art lands and overgrown tomb cards

i really do feel i got incredibly lucky that i went to a single event. spent $47 and have a copy of each of my favorite basics ever printed and the shock land for my favorite color combination

[leaden tide]

Oh nice.

I got Overgrown Tomb, I need the other 4 still.

Thankfully they're quite cheap right now.

[surreal stag]

Yea i got my Tomb too. traded the Crypt i opened for the Tomb someone else got

[rare sparrow]

feels like wotc is getting squeezed because of the rest of hasbro losing money

being the one profitable part of a company that's mostly not doing well is a recipe for disaster

[tepid stirrup]

MTG specifically too. Can't tell that the D&D side of the house is getting squeezed nearly this hard

[wanton hazel]

a year or two ago, Wizards attempted to make some changes to their D&D licensing agreements that had the community earnestly looking for a new rules structure to replace D&D

probably spooked them quite a bit, it didn't take them long to backpedal

I don't remember the particulars exactly enough to repeat them but they were trying to assert ownership of intellectual property for derivative works to some extent

it was severe enough that it wasn't even a question to people, it was more 'welp, we can't use D&D anymore', pretty overwhelmingly

[tepid stirrup]

I'm intimately familiar, but that still feels like a drop in the bucket with respect to monetization next to the glut of schemes we've seen with MTG in the last 2-3 years

[wanton hazel]

I mostly just mean, like, Wizards would hit other products if they could, but I guess they have a bit more of a captive audience

[with magic], like some people are gonna go play Union or Lorcana or whatever, but enough people stick with Magic that they're making money

[rare sparrow]

i think they have the mtg audience pretty well figured out in terms of how to monetize them. how far they can push the envelope, which things their audience will buy, etc.

and haven't figured that out quite as much for d&d

[surreal stag]

when the going get tough on the wallet.....jsut play for free!

or print your stuff athome

[tepid stirrup]

That's true, and there isn't a clear way to collectibleize D&D in a way WotC can directly control and that's a lot of what Hasbro understands about MTG

[fierce dragon]

cant wait for the minecraft dnd tie-in

[tepid stirrup]

That's a thing they were doing for a while but I don't think it did very well

A Rick and Morty sourcebook exists and I believe goes thoroughly unused

[fierce dragon]

oh, wait...

[wanton hazel]

probably costs enough to buy the license for things like that that its only worth it for a smash hit

if people don't really care about them, then yeah no point

[tepid stirrup]

The crossover sourcebooks I see in the wild the most are the Critical Role ones

[plush bear]

They can. Dice, minis, all that stuff. They just haven’t for some reason.

[tepid stirrup]

As opposed to, say, Stranger Things or Rick and Morty

[plush bear]

Custom 3d printed minis to order would make a killing

[tepid stirrup]

The can but those are markets they don't control

People already get bespoke minis and cool/custom dice elsewhere

When they make a cool Magic card, they run the whole table

[plush bear]

Yeah, but they have to go looking. The vast majority of players would leap at something wotc can advertise directly to them

[tepid stirrup]

Maybe? I was at DSNX and there were probably a dozen stalls selling primarily dice

[fierce dragon]

most dnd players als like. are not contributing financially

[tepid stirrup]

That is also true. Its hard enough to get every person at every table to buy the baseline book

[fierce dragon]

where basically every mtg player has to intereact with packs, trading cards, etc at one point or another

[plush bear]

It’ll never be as big a moneymaker as mtg, but it could make decent money

[wanton hazel]

yep, you can proxy things, and many people do, but I think it's uncommon for new players to even consider it

[tepid stirrup]

D&D also has a lot of existing better alternatives and MTG kind of doesn't, or at least not in the same way

[fierce dragon]

dnd is like. the dm buys stuff but most tables dont go past that

[tepid stirrup]

Its closest competitors are broadly speaking entirely different markets

[lucid jewel]

Its also like heaps of dnd ppl will just use stuff like foundry and 5etools which dont kick money directly to wotc

[fierce dragon]

i mean 5etools is just piracy lol

[lucid jewel]

Yes

But its normalized

With dnd

With mtg its not as normalized to just use piracy or proxies

[tepid stirrup]

(To clarify, I mean its alternatives are better than attempts at direct alternatives in the card game space, not necessarily "alternatives better than D&D)

[fierce dragon]

last few years have been great for playing non-dnd things tbh

if you go to any lfg places you have many alternatives even if dnd is still the most common one

[plush bear]

I’ve been loving Lancer

Cyberpunk RED and FFG swrpg are also great

[fierce dragon]

once my pf2e game ends i'm going to be running lancer

[plush bear]

need another person?

[fierce dragon]

i run in spanish haha

[plush bear]

Damn

[tepid stirrup]

I think most LGSes will have some Yugioh and/or Pokemon offerings too but those are kind of just siloed communities that feel pretty disjointed from MTG

And then Hearthstone/Marvel Snap feels another step removed

Whereas there are dozens of very good alternatives to D&D and many D&D players dabble (or more) in those offerings

[stiff horizon]

Yeah
Yugioh, pokemon, one piece and other Bandai games, flesh and blood, the Disney one, etc all have very different play patterns
You’re not going to scratch the same itch even if you might scratch a similar itch

A tcg needs to distinguish how it plays to sell otherwise people will just play what they’re used to

Which means that if you like how a game plays there’s not many other places to go

[tepid stirrup]

Sure

TTRPGs have the advantage of, well if you want mostly-D&D but want to also do cyberpunk you can do Shadowrun and that's enough to sell copies of books

But if you want Shadowrun without D&D you can do like Hack the Planet or Cyberpunk RED or what have you and that's a market too

And one person might be in multiple of those markets

Whereas if you want MTG but cyberpunk you just kind of have to wait until an appropriate MTG set rolls along

[stiff horizon]

Yeah

TTRPGs also have a culture of home brewing generally, if you want something the game doesn’t provide you can make it yourself or find someone who did and don’t need to take official materials as gospel
Whereas in TCG if you want to play anywhere other than the kitchen table you need to follow your LGS’ policies and play with real cards and mechanics

[plush bear]

But the lore and setting is much more important to DnD than mtg

[tepid stirrup]

That's not necessarily true

I'm at like 90%-10% on homebrew settings vs WotC settings over the last 12 years of 5e

Maybe more 95%-5%

[charred ruin]

To a considerable extent the lore and setting is what your specific group decides it is

[plush bear]

But most mtg tables don’t even interact with it

[tepid stirrup]

No but I think Spider-man goes a long way to showing that the vibe of the art being a sort of setting is very important to a lot of players

[stiff horizon]

In my anecdotal experience I’ve seen a lot of people worldbuild their own dnd campaign setting and then just use official canon to fill in details they don’t care as much about to make bespoke
Make their own towns and regions and such but draw on the dnd pantheon if that’s not something they care to make their own of, for example

[tepid stirrup]

Or even the grumbling about hats sets

Magic card art has a very distinctive look regardless of direct setting and being true to that I think is sort of a soft-setting unto itself

[stiff horizon]

I’m not particularly invested in magic lore but all the UB and hat sets makes me care less about playing that set, because it feels like the game doesn’t respect itself as much to not lean on recognizable tropes and IPs

[surreal stag]

the collection aspect of D&D is minis and dice, twio things that everyone else on earth ahs already has better and cheaper options for

you buy physical books if you want and then play with those rules for 5+ years. D&D can sell merch eaier than content

[leaden tide]

Also the vast gulf between Spider-Man and turtles. Both are set in "the magical plane of New York" but only one of them (so far) is stuffed with 'literally just New York' cards, and the difference is night and day.

Turtles is much more focused on the fantastical side of the IP. While it's still far from my favorite, it's a lot more palatable, on the order of one of the hat sets.

[rare sparrow]

I feel like some of that perception is due to only rares being out so far

Bagel and schmear, hot dog cart, city pigeon, guy in the chair are all commons/uncommons

[leaden tide]

I did qualify it with a "so far", but also I went and looked at the Spider-Man rares only last night and saw several that were glaringly "New York"

[rare sparrow]

I feel like we have to at minimum get “slice of pizza” card

Not just the pizza lands

Like, pizza is very much both a nyc and tmnt thing

I would be shocked if we don’t get some sort of direct reference

[tepid stirrup]

Here's the real question

[tepid stirrup]

Do we get a double sided card that on one side is Cowabunga and on the other is Cowabummer

I think we almost certainly get a Cowabunga card at the very least

[leaden tide]

Yeah that's a good candidate for a common combat trick

[plush bear]

https://www.golocalprov.com/business/hasbro-ceo-cocks-and-execs-sued-for-alleged-securities-violations

Hasbro is being sued for overprinting Magic sets to offset failures in other areas

[leaden tide]

While the lawsuit is concerning, this feels very unrelated to Magic's current paradigm...the era the filing cites is from 2021 to 2023

[lucid jewel]

it also feels very much more "finance bro" than anything else

also talking about this stuff, i really dont like how many sets are in standard

this imo will be the most stale and boring standard year with not much changing at all

the current meta is so so close to the previous sets meta every time a new set comes out and it might shift by a couple cards here and there but not much changes 🙁

[leaden tide]

Well after the big ban-wave, there was a fairly substantial change to the core of the top decks...except it was just another flavor of izzet spellslinger.

[lucid jewel]

well thats not even the issue for me

[leaden tide]

Now with Gran-Gran's super-charged lessons instead of Vivi's cauldron

[lucid jewel]

for me its the same few decks that havent changed really at all that still dominate the bo1 meta

[leaden tide]

Ah, gotcha.

[lucid jewel]

specifically these 3 decks

that have not changed in a bit by much

[leaden tide]

Well that's a shame.

[lucid jewel]

yaa the bo3 meta is popping off and interesting

but i dont find bo3 ver interesting in mtga

[leaden tide]

Do you have decklists for the first two? They look interesting, but I don't have time/interest to track down the arts

[lucid jewel]

https://mtga.untapped.gg/constructed/standard/decks/212/mono-white-aggro/AAQAAQAAAArnvwKJkSry7gS6Ch8EJ-nrDtDxAc4BARSIBQA

https://mtga.untapped.gg/constructed/standard/decks/2398/jeskai-artifacts/AAQAAQTQ_yy0mwGeuArK6AcBqt0tAAvojQOj8Clvs5sB2bYD0IAEZPP1AtsPrt4HUAIFiAUFBAA

https://mtga.untapped.gg/constructed/standard/decks/1316/4-color-reanimator/AAQAAQWHBQUBidI15OkLAaLEMQOJ0THGhAfomQkLtesB7lD9VoarF8vCEv3LBKEDr_sGygywlgmYOwAA

heres all 3 of them in order

[leaden tide]

Thank you!

[lucid jewel]

and like they are fun and interesting decks to play, its just they have been around in one form or another for quite a while now

and almost in exactly the form they are in now

[sleek valley]

Pulled together a solid deck for the second prerelease:

(Morcant not pictured because one of the standard players wanted it)

First two rounds were pretty straightforward, but round 3 opponent had two copies of Sapling Nursery which was a bit much too get through.

[leaden tide]

RIP

[lucid jewel]

That fae ascendent card might be a fun commander

Do both fairies and elves

[surreal stag]

I played against it last night. The dude yoinked my necromancy and then MY MASSACRE WORM with said necromancy

It was nuts haha

[wanton hazel]

I picked up Abzan Armor and threw a few extra cards in there, we'll see how it goes

gonna hang out at my LGS tonight, but if a draft fires I might end up doing that instead

[lucid jewel]

What i did today is buck the meta and start playing a more fun deck

https://mtga.untapped.gg/constructed/standard/decks/2966/mardu-demonic-pact/AAQAAQGx3S0HjQWTzSyLLOXYCKbfChmrigEDuusBoqAB29EqCaQumkuA_AH1pCu0sgOWBLSCBMQDmtkLAAA

[leaden tide]

Hehe that's funny

[lucid jewel]

Its much more fun than trying to slam meta decks

[leaden tide]

Ah crap, Scryfall is down

Fine, I guess I'll use Gatherer

[lucid jewel]

Is that the offical version?

[leaden tide]

Yeah.

[dense orchid]

Scryfall is just so much better

[lucid jewel]

I just love how much effort they have put into their search

And how robust it is

[charred ruin]

Aight this is a perfect choice for Drannith Magistrate even though that doesn't help the screencap being terrible

[upper moon]

https://tenor.com/view/atla-avatar-the-last-airbender-justice-just-us-avatar-day-gif-6203243303501649011

[charred ruin]

I am trying to play my new Wizard deck and keep getting all my Wizards shot

Look at the difference in board state between me and my friends

The others are Glunch, Silverquill, and the Dimir Azula

Said Azula has stolen multiple Wizards from me

[surreal stag]

To their credit you have at least one thing on the board with the word DOUBLE on it

[charred ruin]

Yes but everything cool it can double is being shot

I mean except the giant but I haven't been able to set up anything really silly with it

[charred ruin]

Okay so

46 damage so far off just Niv-Mizzet triggers

Lost anyway to a gigantic flying double strike Silverquill

[leaden tide]

Rip.

[slender moss]

Won a game by milling my opponent out with Marlen? Somehow?

[lucid jewel]

Lol

That looks like it was a wild game

[slender moss]

'Twas

Multiple silly things occurred

[slender moss]

Playing against an opponent in Draft. They have Vibrance, Wistfulness, Bloodline Bidding, High Prefect Morcant, Selfless Safewright, and two Overgrown Tombs

literally how

[lucid jewel]

Ppl passing on good stuff that isnt in their colours

[slender moss]

Yeah, but people passing on that much green Generic GoodStuff is a little silly

That pod must have been stacked af

[rare sparrow]

not me wondering what "line goup" meant for longer than i should have

[tepid stirrup]

Should've been an Orzhov card

[turbid falcon]

Same

[lucid jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-jam-stonks-stonk-jam-head-shot-hans-gif-21157324

[lucid jewel]

today is a good day https://imgur.com/Qhu4e7k
https://imgur.com/vnafHfD

[surreal stag]

MY GOAT

[leaden tide]

Niceee, your Demonic Pact carrying you?

[lucid jewel]

Nope it was an agro skeletons just play creatures and removal kinda deck

I wish it was demonic pact cause that's much more fun than just slamming creatures and enchantments and turning everything sideways every turn

https://mtga.untapped.gg/constructed/standard/decks/5147/orzhov-skeletons/AAQAAQGNBQABiKIyDogFtnTomQLa7SmAV-88rbUDI6gCjooEuPEC2w_H3gfQ8QEAAA

Its just a bunch of enchantments that are removal or creating creatures and some synergy around playing enchantments and giving skeletons haste

[turbid falcon]

Well I more than made back my money on my box

Especially since I only paid $85 for it due to a gift card

I didn't pull a few cards that I did want, but they're more than cheap enough that I'm just gonna turn some of these into store credit and get them

[leaden tide]

That's...that's a lot of Formidable Speakers

[leaden tide]

Ah I see. Hey if it works.

[turbid falcon]

They're $15 a pop

And I pulled 3

And as far as I can tell the alt art wistfulness is the most expensive card I could have pulled from a play box

[leaden tide]

Hot damn.

Thankfully, the only cards I need from the set right now are Spinerock Tyrant, Catharsis, and Lavaleaper, all of which have gotten pretty cheap.

[turbid falcon]

Pulled a Spinerock tyrant

[leaden tide]

I might eventually go for Deciet too, just so I can have the full cycle. Oh and the other shocklands.

[leaden tide]

Because of course you did, lmao

I might go for the storybook version of her though, it's the same price as normal frame.

[turbid falcon]

The ones I still want are Eirdu/Isilu, Oko, and Sunderflock

Oh and now that it's cheap I want a few copies of steam vents

It's sitting at around $7 right now and I play a lot of izzet decks

[leaden tide]

Yeah I just want to collect this cycle, since I managed to scoop up the whole EOE set

[turbid falcon]

Wow, noice

Other than those I'm probably done buying product for a while. Maybe I'll do pre releases for the in universe sets but that'll probably be about it

[leaden tide]

Yeah I'm not really gonna be buying boosters just to rip for a while.

Will probably hit up the Strixhaven and Reality Fracture pre-releases. Maybe the Hobbit too. Will grab singles if stuff catches my eye.

[turbid falcon]

I might eventually buy a collectors box of Lorwyn but that'll wait until prices have dropped after a few sets

And that won't be until I'm a bit more financially solvent lol

[lucid jewel]

Yeah especially because of the rewards for getting mythic

The extra pack is worth 1k gold

[lucid jewel]

now that im up in mythic tho all games are mardu demonic pact

[leaden tide]

idk what the overlap between Magic players and Destiny fans is on this server (I know Kon is in both channels), but I decided to write down some loose ideas of what Destiny might look like as a Magic set. No specific card designs yet, it's more of a broad high-level treatment, but I figured I'd post it here if anyone wants to look/suggest ideas. I'm also posting it in #1342603794370007050
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hxzruc05r3mjviMJTZeNei1NJWks1GU_eacL2OS9E_A/edit?pli=1&gid=0#gid=0

[leaden tide]

Oooh Strixhaven first look today?

I uh

I think I'm in love with this card

[lethal isle]

I would cry

[leaden tide]

This is functionally a blue kill spell, btw.

The mana requirement to do so is a bit rough, but easily doable in Commander and also an option in constructed with the right colors.

[tepid stirrup]

That's a clever cost to get it bang on three mana draw two

[wanton hazel]

you'd probably need like 16 mana to kill a player with it in commander

(it'd be 4 mana draw two, since the mana cost is 2 + 2x

[tepid stirrup]

Oh yeah you right

So under valued at 3 mana but over at 4+

[leaden tide]

Yeah. But 14 mana guarantees a constructed kill, and 12 will be able to end a almost every limited game.

Is it efficient? Hell no. Is it hilarious? Hell yes.

[wanton hazel]

I guess there's a blue deck out there of just 'be really annoying with counterspells and removal and then cast this'

[lucid jewel]

Wait that's real

?

[leaden tide]

Yep!

[lucid jewel]

Im also in love

[lucid jewel]

Thats 100% going into my dimir standard mill deck

[charred ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/ron-swanson-parks-and-rec-its-so-beautiful-gif-15644547

[lucid jewel]

from strix

and its also a banger

[plush bear]

The image didn’t get spoilered

[lucid jewel]

yeah it did

[plush bear]

Huh not on my screen

[lucid jewel]

if you go to a diff channel and come back it will probs be spoiled

[lucid jewel]

strange

[wanton hazel]

it is also not spoilered on my screen FWIW

[lucid jewel]

HMMM

ill fix it

that should be better?

[wanton hazel]

yep!

[plush bear]

Yep

[lucid jewel]

well either way we gonna mabey have a few miricals in strix and im here for it

[rare sparrow]

i don't expect us to get any tbh. it's pretty normal to do one-off mechanics like this on mythics nowadays

[leaden tide]

They're also doing Marvel previews today, because god-forbid one of Magic's original worlds get any time in the spotlight.

I'm not gonna post them here (you can find them on Reddit), but they're pretty damn flavorless.

How did they nail Avatar in terms of flavor and fumble Marvel so badly?

[rare sparrow]

the marvel scene cards are so incredibly 💤

[leaden tide]

The scene cards are hilarious to me. They Avengers ones are clearly designed to slot into the Avengers pre-con. Except the scene-box Hulk absolutely hoses the scene-box Iron Man.

It makes no goddamn sense.

Like, even compared to the Marvel secret lair cards, these are so sauceless. Mechanically they read like a Universes Within legally distinct superhero/villain plane; there's very little about them that really captures the feel of the characters themselves.

[rare sparrow]

i've spent a little while looking at this and doing each element as a 1:1 color adaptation feels wrong to me, but i'm not sure how i'd fix it. certainly i'd expect both solar and arc subclasses to use red. possibly boros for solar and izzet for arc? i also wonder if they would in practice never make guardians black (outside of maybe the drifter and hive guardians) and do the whole "heroes are WURG" thing like in avatar

void both feels like a good fit for black (in that it plays into the same void space they went with black in EoE) and also just weird because it implies void is evil in a way that it isnt

[leaden tide]

Yeah I tried figuring out a secondary color for each element, but there just wasn't a good way to make it evenly balanced across the color pie. I think that going one color per element would work best. It's just too good of an opportunity to pass up. Guardians in Destiny currently wield five different elements (so no awkwardness like figuring out what to do with Black in AtlA), and they flavorfully map pretty well onto Magic's color pie.

Solar could be Boros, but it also works well as mono-white, since white has themes of both smiting enemies (destroying blockers/big creatures, exiling, etc.) and protecting/healing (indestructible, lifegain, graveyard recursion).

Stasis as blue is easy, frost magic has always been blue in Magic.

Void as black I think would be a great way to show off that black isn't always evil. Plus Void in Destiny has drain and self-strengthening themes, both of which are in black's purview.

Arc as red, lightning has historically been a red thing flavorfully, sure it could fit blue, but it doesn't need to, especially when in Destiny arc is flavored around speed and combat prowess, both of which are things red covers in Magic.

Strand being green is the weekest flavorfully imo, it's pretty solidly simic in flavor, but green does have some more controlling effects like anti-flying tech and fog effects that can represent Strand's more controlling side.

[rare sparrow]

i think the best way to go with an approach that doesn't 1:1 map the elements to magic colors probably takes advantage of the light/dark subclass divide. E.g. stasis= UB, strand=GB, Solar=WR, Void =WB, Arc=UW, or something like that. Basically, light gets White + another color, darkness gets B + another color. maybe not combining in those exact ways, though

[leaden tide]

Yeah idk. Personally, I've just found that any attempt I made to add secondary colors to elements to get very messy very fast.

Mapping each element to a single Magic color might not always capture them the best on an individual basis, but it works very well as a whole, and creates a strong synergy between the Destiny elements and the Magic color pie.

[rare sparrow]

i think the real answer of how they map the guardian classes to colors would heavily depend on what colors the enemy factions end up in

and what colors space gets left in

[leaden tide]

Yeah. I did also map out what I think would work best for each enemy faction. Though it does run into some problems where a few characters of each enemy race have color identities that don't fit the race as a whole.

Tbh, if I could snap my fingers and make Magic x Destiny happen any way I wanted it to, I'd probably forgo a full set. And instead do Jumpstart plus like 10 different Commander decks.

[rare sparrow]

like, thinking from a draft perspective, they might try to do 5 color pairs that are enemy factions (for the major factions of vex, hive, cabal, scorn, and fallen). then they could do 5 color pairs themed around the 5 elements for the good guys

and pepper in a few random taken and dread cards, but not a whole "faction" worth

[leaden tide]

Yeah. Flavorfully, each of the four original enemy races feels pretty 3-color. But that would lead to a lot of overlap, especially since three are shards and one is a wedge.

The Cabal Empire feels pretty Naya to me (especially under Caiatl's control), but Calus is Golgari and Ghaul feels Mardu

[leaden tide]

Also, I'd argue that Eris has a strong black character element.

[rare sparrow]

yeah, i'm talking mostly about the basic non-legendary theming

there's obviously going to be a bunch of legendaries that don't line up with the factions perfectly

[leaden tide]

Yeah. Hence why my dream would be several Commander decks, and not having to worry about distilling it all down into a draftable set.

[rare sparrow]

the problem i have with doing commander decks is that they'd do "hunter deck, warlock deck, titan deck, bad guy deck" and shove all the cabal, hive, taken, etc. together

[leaden tide]

Yeah that's why (again, dream world here) I'd want like 10 decks.

[rare sparrow]

lol fair

i wonder if destiny is popular enough for them to consider doing a UB of any kind for it. feels like the answer is a cautious yes. like, i don't even play d2 anymore but i would definitely get hyped about it. they can probably coast off the past success of the franchise even if it's been on a downswing for a year and half now

[leaden tide]

The time to do it would have been a couple years ago.

I don't think it has enough cultural weight these days to get more than a Secret Lair drop.

[lucid jewel]

destiny is on its way out

theres no way

[rare sparrow]

you're probably right, i suppose you'd need a destiny 3 to come out

[lucid jewel]

and instead we get another extraction shooter yay

[rare sparrow]

yeah not touching marathon with a 10 foot pole

i'm not sure d2 could even do anything to bring me back, short of reintroducing all the old content they removed (0% chance)

TFS was just a perfect off ramp

[lucid jewel]

what im curious about is now that they are bringing in trek whats comming next for universes beyond

what would even be the next big ip to fold in

[rare sparrow]

yeah, i do feel like in the next 2-3 years they will have exhausted most of the easy options

need to dig deeper

[lucid jewel]

who knows mabey they exaust all the easy options and go to less and less universes beyond or just retreds of the old universes beyond like this new hobbit set

[rare sparrow]

well, there's a 100% chance we'll get another final fantasy set

[lucid jewel]

YES

[rare sparrow]

but even then with hobbit, like now they have done both of the LOTR things there are to do. so that's one major fantasy property they've "ruled out" for future sets now

[lucid jewel]

i hope this star trek set is good and not like the look of the marvel one, i want it to be more like avatar where it just dripps with flavour at every opportunity

[rare sparrow]

EoE definitely made me more willing to think star trek could work, but i'm still skeptical

[lucid jewel]

avatar made me feel like if theres enough passion they could make anything work

[leaden tide]

If I could design it any way I wanted:

• WUBRG Guardians (Young Wolf as face commander, Traveler as alternate), aura/subclass enchantments
• GWU Allies of Humanity (Tower NPCs, Awoken, House of Light), mechanically it could be allies matter I guess? Don't have as clean of a mechanical idea for this.
• WUBRG Witness/Darkness deck, it'd be Devoid/colorless matters, would be mainly Taken and Dread, perhaps with Rhulk, and Nezarec
• UBR Fallen, combination of pirate typal and artifacts matter. Not the most innovative, but it just fits them as a faction.
• WUB Vex, would also have to be heavily artifact focused by virtue of being the Vex, but could also focus on spellslinger/turn manipulation? Would likely be a control deck.
• RGW Cabal empire, I think soldier typal would be a good way to go.
• WBG Hive, combination of aristocrats/graveyard stuff and +1/+1 counters to represent growing from sword logic.
• BR Scorn agro, plus maybe some suicide mechanics. If there's not enough Scorn flavor for a full deck, could throw in some Taken, Devil Splicers, or Xivu Arath Hive (since Xivu feels Rakdos in color but that wouldn't fit the abzan Hive)
• BGU Scheming enemies/theft deck: Mostly exists to unite the villains that wouldn't fit elsewhere: Savathun, Riven, Calus, etc. Practically speaking, they could be broken up and fit elsewhere, but I think this would be more fun.

[leaden tide]

EoE is far more of a science-fantasy than Star Trek is. I think the can make Star Trek work if they try hard enough, but it's gonna be hard. Attacking someone with Picard, the diplomat captain, would feel weird for example.

[leaden tide]

Yeah there's no way they don't do something with how well it sold, but I'm not sure what else they'd do. Another set based on the mainline games? Start drawing on the various sequels?

[lucid jewel]

mabey picard comes as a planeswalker

[leaden tide]

Wizards has said they're not doing UB planeswalkers.

[lucid jewel]

really

[leaden tide]

We'll see if they go back on that at some point.

[lucid jewel]

thats dissapointing

[leaden tide]

Yeah. They tried it with the DnD sets, and folks didn't like seeing characters who didn't have a flavor reason to be a planeswalker, get represented as that type. It just felt kinda arbitrary to have some be creatures and some be walkers.

[rare sparrow]

i think the most obvious FF thing to do is at least another set of commander precons focused around games that were not covered in the first 4 precons. as far as a set, maybe just do "more final fantasy". it's not like they fit everything they wanted into the first one

i think they'd only do a UB planeswalker if it was a perfect flavor fit. and even then, maybe not

[lucid jewel]

feels like a lot of ppl in general just dislike planswalkers

ontop of this

[rare sparrow]

i like planeswalkers 🤷 i think they scaled back on them mostly for commander related reasons

like, regardless of whether or not you think they should all be legal as commanders, you have to admit that planeswalkers being able to be commanders would help wotc's ability to market them a huge amount

[leaden tide]

That would indeed.

If they were to do that, I'd love to see them bring back the "banned as Commander, fine in the 99" list though. There's a few creatures that would be fine with that on the banlist right now, and it'd be a simple and easy way to deal with any problematic planeswalkers.

[rare sparrow]

speaking of commanders that are planeswalkers, this is the first new one they've done in a while, isn't it

[lucid jewel]

yeah its been a while

[wanton hazel]

they did the scene boxes at least to give four more games Commander set cards

[turbid falcon]

Wow

[lucid jewel]

yeah all you boros instant and sorc lovers heres a commander built for you

[turbid falcon]

I mean I adore spellslinger

[leaden tide]

I like that he's not a self-contained engine.

He has the payoff, and a good card selection engine. But you still need to build the rest of the deck around him to enable the full loop.

Much better commander design than the creatures that just do everything in a single package.

(Looking at you, Eshki Temur's Roar)

[lucid jewel]

even the spell slinger commander above probs is too much of a self contained engine

[rare sparrow]

Yeah, he gets you most of the way there. Gives you a payoff, card advantage, gets cards into your yard. you just need to find a way to get the cards out of the yard

[surreal stag]

happy golgari noise

[fierce dragon]

kind of a baddie tho

[surreal stag]

kind of a baddie tho fixed it

[lucid jewel]

WOULD!

[surreal stag]

https://moxfield.com/decks/jrLYldCqgkymWsllizQXhQ

Finally built it

[leaden tide]

I'm curious, why no Scorpion God?

[surreal stag]

Felt slow but if I feel the need for more bombs I’ll add him back. Need to play it more but after one game with an older build this is where I’m happy to test it again

[leaden tide]

Yeah, know that feeling.

I'm finally gonna run my toughness deck through the ringer tomorrow, I haven't had time to play for a while.

Hope the test goes well! -1/-1 seems like it can get quite grindy if not done right.

[surreal stag]

My buddy scrapped his abzan armor mod and went to the new Doran with a life gain/drain sub theme. It’s nasty

[surreal stag]

Thanks! Thats the hope. Find the a good combination of what I’ve got and go crazy with it

This will for sure be like my Slimefoot & Squee deck I’ve provably done 3-5 rebuilds where I refocus on themes and get to a spot I’m happy with

[turbid falcon]

I'm leaving auntie ool pretty close to the precon

The deck is pretty grindy and controlling instead of being explosive and that's something I struggle to build lol
Should have my final Ashling list done soon after my pulls last night

That deck is so explosive it's like an unattended vat of nitroglycerin

[surreal stag]

I already swapped with blood letter with blight sickle. Forgot BL is only wither until end of turn

Yes my plan is to give bowmaster wither whenever possible lol

https://moxfield.com/decks/bKLn-yXWwUmX9xxYtdQsEQ

By SqueeFoot deck

I’m still trying to find a funny tax evasion joke for a deck name

[turbid falcon]

Even the joker pays his taxes

Please take a moment to appreciate something I didn't notice originally when cracking packs

But I have the perfect set of basic lands for my Ashling deck

[surreal stag]

Omg same! I got the full WUBRG shadowmore set

[surreal stag]

Omg that’s hilarious

[turbid falcon]

I was worried I didn't have a shadow moor forest but I pulled one in my prerelease

Thus full set of both Lorwyn and shadow moor
And the deck calls for exactly 2 of each, so it works out perfectly

[surreal stag]

That’s dope

I’m gunna get a cool wood display box and put them on the wall next to my desk

[turbid falcon]

https://archidekt.com/decks/18761654/elemental_etbs
Final list
Sunderflock and Eirdu are ordered, besides that the deck is complete

Took a while to go through and make sure all the printings selections were correct
I am planning on adjusting the ramp slightly (looking at you enchantments (as I was writing this I realized how I wanted to change it lol))

[turbid falcon]

I am genuinely surprised that there are no elementals with the type line "you may play an additional land"

You'd think there would be, but apparently there aren't

Which is a bit sad because I would like an effect like that in my Ashling list as a form of ramp, but I've limited myself to only elementals as creatures
(Yes I could put another permanent type with this line in but I'm trying to accomplish as much as I can with the elementals as I can. Board wipes, removal, card draw, etc)

[surreal stag]

That is weird

[lucid jewel]

I mean does putting in an icetil explorer destroy anything

Cause imo even a couple effects like that from non elemental sources might be good

Oh didn't read your message fully lol

[surreal stag]

i need opinions. Aggro combat tricks 1-2 CMC what are the biggest things i should look for that have the most impact. Meaning keywords or other benifits.

my intial thoughts are makes treasure, draws a card, first strike, double strike

[rare sparrow]

More context is important here, but i’d generally say double strike, trample, drawing a card

[leaden tide]

Yeah there's a reason Temur Battle Rage is considered one of the best combat tricks printed.

Cantripping is always nice, but for combat tricks specifically, pushing your creature's raw power through is quite useful.

[surreal stag]

https://moxfield.com/decks/ind3y7uaXU6aSnXBbH1lGA

im trying to see if this can be a thing

BR2 Mice/Otters combat tricks + valiant + prowess

my creature denisity is low compared to my rather scary BR 3 Arthur Deck but im trying to stick to the theme and see what does/doesnt work.

[turbid falcon]

...holy crap
I think I underestimated just how unhinged this Ashling deck is

I've been play testing it a bit and it hasn't won the same way twice yet
Nor does it need the same tools to do so each time, and that includes Ashling herself
Yes she makes the deck better but often just a normal evoke ability is more than enough value

[surreal stag]

That’s dope my dude

[plush bear]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1334133573707366541/1466497255988002886/image0.jpg?ex=697cf580&is=697ba400&hm=b29a15233a12c4f716355dd1276826097055131bf9221488b076fcdac10a290f&

[lucid jewel]

We already did a whole "this is beautiful" discussion on this

I also love how its not even really good at any mana level

[plush bear]

This is edited, read the text

[leaden tide]

Mandlebrot set lmao

[lucid jewel]

Oh

[dense orchid]

Mathmagics is going on my Bumbleflower deck

The wincon of the deck is mill through group hug

[charred ruin]

My brother made a combination group hug and stax deck (mainly defensive stuff to dissuade attacking him but also nonsense like Drannith Magistrate), and his win cons are all silly things that take forever like Millennium Clock and Approach of the Second Sun

[dense orchid]

I should put Millennium Calendar in some of my decks just for the lols

[lucid jewel]

my friend has a kwain deck thats simular

[surreal stag]

grouphug pukes

[plush bear]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1334133573707366541/1466267788162367529/m6hb3gdto3gg1.png?ex=697cc88a&is=697b770a&hm=309ce84a38fdb87360c4d7560bb15b5dd2d7a8b9e23510cfdb6ee10c9888b4ef&

[turbid falcon]

I mean generate enough mana and it's basically a kill spell

Sure it's expensive but ramp decks can make that much mana

[lucid jewel]

True there are plenty of decks with enough mana in blue

[turbid falcon]

That being said I wouldn't put it above B tier

[leaden tide]

I don't care if it's terrible, I really hope I open it at prerelease. If I do, nothing on God's blue earth will stop me from trying to kill someone with it.

[surreal stag]

Anything is possible with the power of spite

16 mana is a one shot right?

[lucid jewel]

These are the relvent ammounts

[dense orchid]

X=5 is looking real good for standard

Simic mill possibly? Maybe sultai mill?

[lucid jewel]

Thing is that list is relativly tight since the addition of the new tutor elf

Those*

Heres the rest of the numbers for.it if anyone is not fond of math and wants to save the numbers

[dense orchid]

I just want to see mill do well in standard!

[lucid jewel]

It currently is doing really well

Theres self mill recursion and a really popular mill out tue opponent

[dense orchid]

Well. Guess I need to hop on Arena then

[lucid jewel]

Ill give you the two decks

[dense orchid]

Or more accurately, back on

[lucid jewel]

https://mtga.untapped.gg/constructed/standard/decks/1316/4-color-reanimator/AAQAAQWHBQUBidI15OkLAaLEMQOJ0THGhAfomQkLtesB7lD9VoarF8vCEv3LBKEDr_sGygywlgmYOwAA?meta=last7Days

https://mtga.untapped.gg/constructed/standard/decks/2874/sultai-reanimator/AAQAAQmHBZy3AoGhKxkDtsIEoLcDBbT-AgSHZLWHAafsK6b5AwGgkwMK9A_B2wG8lSuxwwTMCPaHBNr2ApUG5ZwJmDsAAA?meta=last7Days

Heres two slightly different self mill reanimator decks

Then ill grab you the opponent mill deck

https://mtga.untapped.gg/constructed/standard/decks/333/dimir-mill/AAQAAQGJgC0E8pAavoQUv7EDneoPBKQuma8tgPUH6egKB7XrAdLsK_foA4sQ0oEEqeQKl3UCBowFBQEA?meta=last7Days

@dense orchid these are all the current decks that feature a bunch of mill

[dense orchid]

Yesssss. Grind out my opponent. Make them salty

[lucid jewel]

My fav deck tho right now is also an make opponent's salty deck by giving them things they dont want

[dense orchid]

Ooh! Very exciting

[lucid jewel]

https://mtga.untapped.gg/constructed/standard/decks/2966/mardu-demonic-pact/AAQAAQGx3S0HjQWTzSyLLOXYCKbfChmrigEDuusBoqAB29EqCaQumkuA_AH1pCu0sgOWBLSCBMQDmtkLAAA?meta=last7Days

This one specifically

It says demonic pact but I have much more fun with greeds gambit

Especially because every now and then someone will destroy it while its on their side of the feild

[surreal stag]

I’m playing that Caging EA deck I think you posted a while back. Very fun

I added a soul guides lantern to slow down reanimators though

[lucid jewel]

Soul guide lanturn is so solid vs that

Theres also a good white card that exiles all graveyards then sends everything to exile rather than graveyards

[surreal stag]

I wanted to be able to search it with Brightglass Gearhulk

https://tenor.com/view/feel-me-think-about-it-meme-gif-7715402

[surreal stag]

And if not a need for GY hates it draws a card

[leaden tide]

16 is a one-shot in Commander. 14 for Constructed, and 12 for limited.

[turbid falcon]

It's almost an auto include in x spell decks

[dense orchid]

6-0 with minimal changes because I didn't have the crafting materials. Rust and ruin

[plush bear]

@heavy jasper I just made a Tom Bombadil deck and its so fun

But annoying to pilot lmao

so many counters

[heavy jasper]

My brother made one 😭

He said he keeps beating his wife’s Aragorn

[spare harbor]

I need to figure out a better way to represent counters in my pir and toothy deck

[plush bear]

I need to make an Aragorn deck

[leaden tide]

Idea: Instead of keeping a die on every saga, just put three dice (or however many you need) in a row, with ascending numbers.

Just move each saga to the correct position in the row.

[plush bear]

The problem is that its online

So counters are annoying

Dice is easy

[spare harbor]

Dice is less easy when you’re at 20+ counters and adding 4+ at a time 💀

(The problems of success)

[leaden tide]

Ah gotcha

[spare harbor]

I think I just need to buy a set of d100s

[lucid jewel]

Or just buy some life counters

They work great for this

D100s are poop

[leaden tide]

I do really like the click counters that they occasionally put out.

[leaden tide]

Yeah those things

[lucid jewel]

Even the countdown d100s I've seen are too.much balls and not stable enough

[spare harbor]

Was thinking of the two d10 style

[lucid jewel]

That works

Anything that can easly and cleanly represent 1 to 100 ish

Every second counts if your heavy on counters

[spare harbor]

Honestly it gets to the notes app sometimes

[leaden tide]

Yeah I have one of these. It's great for counters.

If I have anything that gets really huge.

[charred ruin]

Bought a couple of Eclipsed packs while running errands and got a few fun things

Nothing too fancy but those basics are the colors for my spirits Commander deck and that boardwipe will go hard with it

[leaden tide]

Nice. Lavaleaper is the kind of card you put in your "one more game for the night" deck.

One way or the other, games are gonna end faster with it out.

[charred ruin]

Yeah not the kind of thing I'd run but its funny

[lucid jewel]

When's the earliest yall think I might get eyes on some star trek cards

[spare harbor]

Around the release of secrets of strixhaven, maybe?

Oh wait no it’s the last set this year

It seems like the very first spoilers happen ~2 sets earlier than release

At least these days

[leaden tide]

First look at AtlA was in Magiccon Las Vegas, which was in June

[turbid falcon]

Oh goodness Kai Buddee the German dragon passed away
Rip the absolute legend

[turbid falcon]

Yup they usually release a few initial spoilers specifically to give game stores an idea of the set so they can preorder

I know people complain about them doing this but that's why they do it, it's important for the LGS

[leaden tide]

Tbh I have less issue with sets getting earl first looks, and more how they layer the promo of one set on during the previous set's release, and usually it's UB that's taking priority.

[lucid jewel]

Pro tour metagame standard stuff seems so wide

Its great

So much veriaty

[rare sparrow]

especially seems like there is more variety at the top tables than the metagame numbers they released suggested. tons of badgermole decks in the tournament, but lots of non-badgermole decks performing well

[lucid jewel]

Im enjoying seeing all the control success

[rare sparrow]

same, i love control decks

[lucid jewel]

Wan shi doing work same with tidebinder

[leaden tide]

And also the Badgermole decks are doing different things.

It's not 2/3rds of one deck and 1/3rd of a deck designed to go underneath it.

Also, played a Ravnica Timeless event someone at my LGS organized. You opened packs from Return to Ravnica block, War of the Spark block, and Ravnica remastered.

I feel I got the short end of the staff with stuff, just opening crap removal spells.

But hey I did open these.

[spare harbor]

prime speaker my goat

[leaden tide]

Two shocklands for the night is not too shabby, if I do say so myself.

[fierce dragon]

well uhm ackshuallly two shock lands is pretty shabby 🤓

[leaden tide]

https://tenor.com/view/youre-wrong-oscar-the-grouch-ding-dong-gif-25943635

[upper moon]

Just did a 2 player lorwyn draft with a buddy. Was pretty fun, ran a kithkin deck with ajani and Brigid.

I do have a lore question though

What are the "first years?"

Are they people who came through omenpaths or something? As they seem to be species that arent from loreyn

[charred ruin]

They're Strixhaven students that are visiting from the Omenpaths

[upper moon]

Ah, gotcha

[wanton hazel]

fancy

[lucid jewel]

Worth 13 whole usd right now as wepl

Gonna put it somewhere safe and add it to the abzan armpur precon I end up buying

[leaden tide]

And it's only gonna go up. Give it a few years and it will probably be in the $20-30 range.

[lucid jewel]

Which land from the precon would I replace

Or just one of the basics?

https://moxfield.com/decks/HRkJg22HtkC8VhQ49cHIMg

This is the precon list

[leaden tide]

I'd swap one of the Temples for it. Scrying isn't worth having an always tapped land.

[wanton hazel]

That’s my instinct too, always tapped lands are the first cut

[surreal stag]

I hate you. And Gratz I guess

Idk if I’ve ever modded a precon and even bothered to cut/add individually lands I just remove them all and start over knowing I’ll probably save time

[rare sparrow]

i would actually probably remove evolving wilds before removing a temple, since you actually just don't have anything that cares about landfall in the deck

at least scrying gives you something in exchange for being tapped

evolving wilds doesnt

[lucid jewel]

I like that idea too

[dense bobcat]

Hello my fellow super nerds

How do we think this interaction would go

Specifically, earthbending aetherspark

I think it would essentially just gain power and toughness and everything else that comes with creature status on top of what it already has

[dense bobcat]

Also, that is very very nice

[leaden tide]

Well turning it into a creature would unattach it from whatever it was equipped to. So you'd have a Legendary Artifact Land Creature Planeswalker – Equipment

That can be attacked and can also attack.

Could it....block its own attacker? I think it'd still loose loyalty points from that but it would deal damage to the attacker.

[dense bobcat]

I think so?

As long as it doesn't drop to zero toughness I think it would be fine

[leaden tide]

Or loyalty. Would have two death conditions.

[dense bobcat]

Yeah

I'd guess if either was met it's done for though

[leaden tide]

What a whacky-ass interaction. Definitely the kind of thing to go in a Judge Tower deck.

[dense bobcat]

If i actually used it, I would probably generally ignore the fact that it's a creature, but the earthbending would make it so that it could return to the battlefield if it died

Makes it susceptible to more damage effects as a creature, though

Huh.. damage would reduce both loyalty counters and toughness simultaneously wouldn't they

[leaden tide]

Yep.

That's how I read it

[spare harbor]

Notably it also couldn’t be or become equipped while it was earthbent

[leaden tide]

Yep. Auras and equipment have some pretty strict state-based actions baked in to them.

[spare harbor]

I can’t find any quick answer on if turning it into a land would make it not able to equip though

[leaden tide]

I don't think so. The only equipment equip rule only calls out creatures as a type.

301.5c An Equipment that’s also a creature can’t equip a creature unless that Equipment has reconfigure (see rule 702.151, “Reconfigure”). An Equipment that loses the subtype “Equipment” can’t equip a creature. An Equipment can’t equip itself. An Equipment that equips an illegal or nonexistent permanent becomes unattached from that permanent but remains on the battlefield. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.) An Equipment can’t equip more than one creature. If a spell or ability would cause an Equipment to equip more than one creature, the Equipment’s controller chooses which creature it equips.

You could theoretically figure out a way to give the Aetherspark reconfigure (through un-set/playtest card shenanigans?) but that would just cause it to stop being a creature while it's equipped to something.

[rare sparrow]

"If a planeswalker becomes a creature while remaining a planeswalker, damage affects it as both types, causing both loss of loyalty and marked damage;[18] if attacked, it can even block the creatures attacking it, in which case it deals combat damage as normal as a blocker, but only specifically to the creature it's blocking.[16]" from mtg.wiki on planeswalker rulings

[lucid jewel]

Theres one ninja planeswalker I see in standard a bunch

He turns himself into a hexproof creature

On your turn

[rare sparrow]

yeah, because of these weird interactions they've been pretty careful about how they've implemented planeswalkers that turn into creatures

for example, the weirdness around blocking with them is why most of the ones that can easily turn into creatures only do so on your turn

[leaden tide]

Kaito! He's a real one.

Love his character too.

[leaden tide]

Yeah. Iirc most versions of Sarkhan stop being a planeswalker when they turn into dragons, and most versions of Gideon prevent damage to himself while he's a creature.

[rare sparrow]

kaito is somewhat of an exception, but the assumption is to some extent that the main situation in which he's attacking is when he gets ninjutsu-ed in, in which case he's not being blocked, and thus not taking combat damage as an attacker. On subsequent attacks he might lose some loyalty if he gets blocked, though

[leaden tide]

Huh it turns out that only two of the Sarkhans turn into Dragons (out of 8 PW versions of him) actually turn into dragons. Could have sworn it was his main shtick, like how every Gideon turns into a creature.

[rare sparrow]

oh wait... nvm

kaito doesn't say "he's still a planeswalker"

so also gets around it in the same way as sarkhan

[leaden tide]

Ah yeah, that would do it.

Only Gideon remains both, and he had to always have that "prevent all damage that would be dealt to Gideon" clause stapled on. Which did make him a more effective creature.

[rare sparrow]

tbh, i think gideon mostly works the way he does because he was the first PW they tried that with yet and hadn't figured out the sarkhan solution yet

and once they did, they didn't want different gideons working differently from each other

[leaden tide]

And also Gideon in the lore has an indestructible aura, so preventing damage to him while he's a creature too represents that.

Though yeah just giveing him indestructible while he's in creature mode still would have been simpler.

[rare sparrow]

yeah, they could have done it with just indestructible and not needing the extra line about preventing all damage, had he been only a creature

[surreal stag]

Tax evasion is fun

https://moxfield.com/decks/bKLn-yXWwUmX9xxYtdQsEQ

[surreal stag]

This was the first game I won with this deck and it felt so good

[leaden tide]

Very cool, it's always a nice feeling when a dev finally kicks into gear.

[lucid jewel]

https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/e/e/ee7486fc-844d-4515-9028-8d53ba396a61.jpg?1767732931 https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/b/d/bd82c9e4-9871-4e6d-b691-ee00b4b9a3c6.jpg?1759144842

these two cards are being used so much in the pro tour

its great to see

[rare sparrow]

Tbh i think elementals are eating the best after lorwyn eclipsed, they got a ton of super strong new cards

Low key people were underrating how powerful it is having both flamebraider and ashling to accelrate you

[wanton hazel]

I’ve tried to draft elementals a few times and it doesn’t seem to go well

[lucid jewel]

i dont think elementals are supported well in the limited format

elves and kithkin are way more supported

outside of the limited format they are great

[rare sparrow]

Yeah, i’m talking standard here since that’s the main relevant format to think about regarding the PT

[turbid falcon]

Earthbending the aetherspark is DELIGHTFUL
I think I'm adding it to my list just for how stupid that is

[surreal stag]

Turns out orcish bowmasters with wither is….. really good in Auntie Ool

[lucid jewel]

Pew pew

[dense bobcat]

I'm glad to have inspired you lol

[leaden tide]

Finally played some Commander after a too-long hiatus.

Both my decks performed admirably. Managed to win a game with my Felothar deck (though probably only because someone ran out of time and had to scoop). Almost won a game with my Narset deck, took out the player attacking me with a well-timed Deflecting Palm on a 11/11 Eldrazi token.

They did the things I wanted them to!

I do have a peeve though: If you're not gonna spend money on getting the tokens your deck specifically needs, sure I get that. But please at least bring some scrap paper and a pen to draw out your own tokens so you don't have to remember what's an Eldrazi and what's an Angel and what's a Faerie.

[turbid falcon]

Or just have infinitokens

Never go anywhere without them they're too useful

[leaden tide]

Yeah. Just have something that you can customize, so you're not trying to remember what is what.

Also, underrated thing to bring to Commander: Color indicators. I hate seeing people play something that has them pick a color and then they immediately forget it.

So I have a little baggie of colored Legos that stays in my play kit.

[leaden tide]

I may have uh. Slightly underestimated the number of goblins I have in my collection.

Gonna need to make just a few cuts.

[plush bear]

Gooblins

[leaden tide]

The one thing I noticed going through them is they don't have a lot of intrinsic card advantage that elves do. So I might throw in a skullclamp as a concession to functionality. But I'm gonna see how it plays first.

[lucid jewel]

Theres some great aristocratic goblin subtheme stuff in lorwyn so skul clamp imo is needed in goblin decks if you end up putting some of those in

Mabey add some black goblins ?

[leaden tide]

Nope.

This is a pure red pile of Goblins.

Originally concieved as "just throw whatever I have in there" and see how it does.

It will have a little better synergy than that, because I'm gonna need to make a good number of cuts. So naturally the least synergistic things will be cut.

I'll be making a similar pure green pile of elves soon too.

[turbid falcon]

There are a few good goblin engines I can think of

But not a lot

[dense orchid]

cough Krenko cough

[turbid falcon]

I was more speaking of card advantage not so much token advantage lol

Goblins are very good at going wide lol

[rare sparrow]

obviously not mono-red, but grub from ECL is card advantage in the command zone on a goblin commander

[leaden tide]

If the deck really struggles on its own, I'll throw in a few red draw spells like Thrill of Possibility and whatnot. But the spirit of the deck is bracket 1 pile of goblins. So we'll see how that goes.

[rare sparrow]

oh, and i'm obviously dumb. not saying you want to play muxus, but that is obviously a quite good "card advantage in the command zone" goblin commander

certainly better than the new grub

[leaden tide]

Wait which new Grub? There's two, the main set one and the commander one.

Oh nevermind, mixing Grub up with a different goblin

[lucid jewel]

https://archidekt.com/decks/18874534/serve_with_turf

Thoughts on this

My lgs has them for 40$ as "store precons"

[leaden tide]

Interesting. Looks decent, but pretty bad value though. Couldn't even put in a painland?

[leaden tide]

Pulled out all my elves (didn't sort them by mana value yet, so no picture), and I have 113. So I need to cut about 50 of them. And that's with me ignoring the obvious anti-synergy elves like the ones from Dragon's Maze that care about gates.

[fierce dragon]

You should play 100 elves actually

[tepid stirrup]

99 elves and one forest are all you need

Or 98 elves, a forest, and a Sol Ring

[fierce dragon]

They should make an elf forest

[leaden tide]

Just mulligan until I find the forest?

Yeah, I will be running less lands in this than my Goblins one for sure. That one I'm aiming for 60/40 to start. This one I'm gonna start with 65/35 and might even go lower after some playtests.

There's sooo much ramp in this random pile of elves.

[leaden tide]

And here's my Elves. Sorted by role this time instead of mana value. This is gonna be tough, there's so much synergy here.

The roles are, from left to right, top to bottom:

• Ramp: Mana dork
• Ramp: Land fetch
• Token generators
• Pump: Counters
• Pump: Temporary
• Misc
• Keywords/generic bodies
• Elves payoff
• Lifegain
• Draw
• Protection
• Removal

[leaden tide]

Okay I've trimmed it down to 65 elves, and will be grabbing 35 forests. Will see how that does for a couple games, if the ramp ramps enough, I might cut another 5 lands.

[lucid jewel]

my lgs facebook group someone pulled a serialized bitterbloom bearer

https://i.imgur.com/Ohetjhq.png

such a crazy pull

theres two listings right now on tcgplayer

[wanton hazel]

yeah that's something you'd want to sell

or at least something I would

idk if people are actually buying at that price but I don't need a $4,000 card

[lucid jewel]

i would 10000% sell it

altho

that card specifically is a card that will probably increase in value just because of itspower

[leaden tide]

Well unless you're really attached to it being serialized, you can sell it and then buy like 100 copies of the non-serialized versions.

[leaden tide]

So just list it for $3500 and see if someone bites

[lucid jewel]

i would probs do something simular to the person from my lgs

and post to facebook and ask for offers

[leaden tide]

Hmm yeah, that is a good strategy.

Also there's a Commander BnR announcement next week. My money is on it being the hybrid mana change.

Will be fun to watch Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt spike again just like the last two times they weren't unbanned

[tepid stirrup]

Good guess

[leaden tide]

The idea of the change is apparently quite contentious on Reddit.

I don't hate it on principle, I think it mostly makes sense for hybrid color cards. But things get pretty messy, philosophically at least, when "two-brid" mana comes into play.

But I don't see them really allowing one and not the other so 🤷

[lucid jewel]

honestly the change makes the most intuative sense

the arguements against it just feel very "boomer" for want of a better word

[leaden tide]

Yeah, the only argument that makes even a bit of sense is that "well some old hybrid cards are color pie breaks if we treat them as mono-color."

But if that's the line we draw, we need to ban Hornet Sting and Prodigal Wizard.

[lucid jewel]

if we are talking colour pie breaks there are some other issues happening with almost every release of new cards

[upper moon]

Wait, so what's the hybrid change being discussed?

[leaden tide]

Basically, in Commander, hybrid mana is treated as an "and" for color identity purposes.

[lucid jewel]

hybrid cards cant go in monocoloured decks currently

[leaden tide]

This card can only be played with Commanders that are both red and black.

The Commander format pannel last year announced they were thinking of switching it to an "or", which was the original intent behind hybrid mana.

So this deck could go in just a red deck or just a black deck (or an Orzhov deck, or an Izzet deck, etc.)

[leaden tide]

Also I realize you probably know this already.

[upper moon]

Ah, gotcha

No, I didn't actually

So

I don't know that much about commander overall as I've only done a few games of it

mostly with a precon

[leaden tide]

Yeah. Most people against it point at certain cards like this one where they're like "extra combats are a color pie break in white"

When A) there's a colorless extra combat card that can go in any deck now (Genji Glove) and B) I personally think extra combats would be a totally reasonable thing for white to start getting in its color pie.

[tepid stirrup]

Aren't most of the most popular Commanders two or three color anyway?

[leaden tide]

Yep.

Most precons are 3-color these days too because that's what sells the best.

We still occaisonally get 2-color precons, and a 5-color if Wizards is feeling spicy.

[tepid stirrup]

Being too precious about color pie in an eternal highlander format seems weird to me

[leaden tide]

4-color and mono-color sadly seem dead.

[tepid stirrup]

The color pie has changed in the last 30 years, as it turns out

[leaden tide]

Yeah it's the same vibe as when people complain about Commander no longer being singleton because Wizards prints a new version of Crucible of Worlds or Blood Artist every year or two.

Like, the game is growing and evolving. You've always been able to double up on hasty beaters and mana dorks. Why don't other, more niche strategies get to do that?

[tepid stirrup]

I do think Wizards could be a little more careful about that, but I also don't think it is Ruining Commander

[leaden tide]

I like it when we get slightly different versions of the effect, so that you can pick and choose which one is best tuned to your specific strategy.

But also I'm a bracket 2 Jenny who loves building kinda janky decks in mechanical niches, and not just generic turbo value engines.

[lucid jewel]

its just giving more tools to mono coloured decks that honestly is a much more inutaive way of doing it. Legit if my mono red deck can cast it with a mountian i should be able to use it for almost anything

especially for new players trying to create decks

[leaden tide]

Okay goldfished the Elfball a bit. Will probably end up cutting 2-3 lands.

The thing it struggled most with was card draw. I have relatively few draw engine elves, and none of my legendary elves are draw engines either.

I do have a good mono-green draw engine commander I could use, except....he's a centuar.

I do have Freyalise in the deck, so maybe she could go in the Command zone? Need to do some more tests to see how often I run out of cards before I hit 5 mana. Well, technically I'd need two more turns before I can get draw off of her, and that's only if nobody attacks her.

Hmm.

[surreal stag]

i finally won a game of a draft

[leaden tide]

Congrats! What kind of deck did you end up with?

[wanton hazel]

is that arena? I've started doing a bunch of the pick-2 drafts on there, just because they're cheaper

[surreal stag]

yea Arena quick draft. im in WB with Syg and lots of tappy tappy synergies

not many big bombs but plenty of removal

https://x.com/TolarianCollege/status/2019093843694743677?s=20

Tolarian Community College (@TolarianCollege)

I'm giving away TEN Collector Booster Boxes of Lorwyn Eclipsed! All you have to do is donate to Trans Lifeline!

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X · Feb 4, 2026, 5:00 PM

easiest $20 ive ever spent

if you donate DM for my name and address thanks bunches haha /s

[fierce dragon]

Oh hell yeah

[surreal stag]

https://x.com/commandcast/status/2019123864706642135?s=20

The Command Zone (@commandcast)

Let’s support a great cause together!!

Just donate to @TransLifeline in multiples of $4.00 and we'll pick 7 winners to send one of these boxes to.

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X · Feb 4, 2026, 7:00 PM

it gets better and better!

[leaden tide]

Oh yeah definitely gonna donate

Worth donating even without the giveaway of course.

[surreal stag]

the okay symbol looked sarcastic lol had to swap it out

[surreal stag]

gets out tempod two games in a row!!!!

sure whish i pulled more than one legendary in my draft.....

[surreal stag]

https://moxfield.com/decks/jrLYldCqgkymWsllizQXhQ

If anyone is motivated to help a stuggiling Blight Enjoyer i need some suggestions on cuts. If i cant defend the card well enough it goes.

[lucid jewel]

https://assets.moxfield.net/cards/card-bR210-normal.webp?272252624 do you really need this ?

https://assets.moxfield.net/cards/card-l49Z6-normal.webp?272283161 i also think this isnt great

i love maha in this deck tho

maha is so so good

[surreal stag]

yea this is weaker but i the chance i do mathc up to a counters deck it just shuts them down.

[surreal stag]

this is a pet card for sure, triggers my commander, reanimation on something important and it can shed counters from my stuff leaving my able to self blight even more.

out of the two i think the beetle is the weakest

[lucid jewel]

also whats the power level

[surreal stag]

im setting in br3

[lucid jewel]

with a demonic tutor ?

or is that like theonly

[surreal stag]

vamipric tutor, crop rotation, orcish bowmasters

the tutors are for the moments when ive got 1-2 peices of a nice syngery and i need the next one right now. Orcish Bowmasters with wither is a nasty combo. any of my 1/1 token generators with ozilith is just free counters every combat to draw cards, etc etc

crop rotation to complete the Urbog/Cabal combo

or if im despreite for a proliferate i grab Karns bastion

and fyi the sidebaord is there to remind me that if im confident in my proliferate triggers is swap in those lands becuase they go crazy if i can proliferate the counters consistantly

[leaden tide]

Man I really hope they don't un-ban either, this is funny as hell

Mana Crypt, in contrast, hasn't spiked at all, since it's not "on the table" the same way Jeweled Lotus is.

(I don't think a Jeweled Lotus unban is likely, but Gavin Verhey mentioned it as the only one of the three that 'could' possibly come back at some point)

[lucid jewel]

ppl are so silly about this stuff

[turbid falcon]

I have a nice full art jeweled lotus that would be nice to use

I pulled it after it got banned

[leaden tide]

Jeweled Lotus should never have been printed imo. It's way too generically good and basically only exists to sell packs.

[turbid falcon]

I mean I don't disagree

But it also really helps low color commanders

[leaden tide]

The only timeline I'd want to see it un-banned is one where they include it in every precon like Command Tower and Signet. But that's not gonna happen

[turbid falcon]

3 4 and 5 color decks kinda dominate

Having acceleration that works best for cheap 1 or two color commanders is really nice

Or expensive commanders in general

6+ mana commanders are noticably clunky

Of course these are the ideal fair uses for ut

[leaden tide]

I'd love to see a version of it that can only be used on high mana value commanders, yeah.

[surreal stag]

imo if your including it youd better have a good reason. like a 5+ mana commander or volrton to pay the tax. If youve got this in your 3 cmc commander youre just shorting youreself a card '

[leaden tide]

Yeah, T1 Urza Lord High Artificer is not a fair use case lmao

[surreal stag]

if its unbanned it better be a GC

also make Sol Ring a GC i said what i said

[turbid falcon]

Anything unbanned becomes a GC

[surreal stag]

okay fair

[turbid falcon]

Automaticallu

I'm just trying to figure out whether it works as a game changer

[surreal stag]

counter point

who cares if it works as a GC lol

if its a GC its just even more bad decking building bait

[turbid falcon]

Counterpoint, I'm amazing at deck building

[surreal stag]

hahahah well then dont worry about it

if it works it works if not ignore it lol

[turbid falcon]

Exactly IM not worried about it

[surreal stag]

honeslty if they unban it thats just one more GC i dont have to se in every br 3 deck. JL of The One Ring you decide which stupid OP card you auto include to make up for your lack of creativity

says the man who always runs a god damn sol ring

[turbid falcon]

I usually include sol ring

Usually

There are decks that don't want it

[surreal stag]

yea i mean it works most of the time but yea i just havnt built a deck that doesnt need it

im sure i will one day

[turbid falcon]

My biggest thing for sol ring isn't so much the turn one play but rather the ability to pay for commander tax

[surreal stag]

yea but thatll be a problem until the end of time

if you get lucky then great youve become the threat turn 1

[turbid falcon]

Well, sometimes

[surreal stag]

i hope the rest of your hand can keep you in the game

[turbid falcon]

Other times you get the sol ring turn 1 and then durdle

Which I do lots of the time

[leaden tide]

Yeah I tend to not run Sol Ring if my deck includes green. Because green's ramp is just that good on its own.

And is usually less sucptible to getting abraded

[surreal stag]

yes but the perception is. turn one sol ring, you have a good chance of being the problem right away if you gas out thats tough cookies for you

[turbid falcon]

Depends on the ramp package and what I'm trying to do

For example I do run it in my flubs deck because that deck, despite ramping like hell, is mana hungry

[surreal stag]

especially if you play with randoms, you become the problem and its an easy out for them to swing and make fewer decisions

[turbid falcon]

I have an established pod so that isn't too much of an issue

We self regulate pretty well usually

[surreal stag]

fair enough, i usually play with buddies but i still branch out on Stack Shack to grab a game every now and then.

[charred ruin]

This is funny and you should keep it

[surreal stag]

I’m in braize trying to cut 2 cards

[surreal stag]

i would have untapped on turn 6 like this. turn 4 killed one person, turn 5 the next, guy scooped on his turn 5 when he couldnt top deck the out

i love this deck so much

[dense orchid]

That's my type of card lol

[slender moss]

Um so Ashling is pretty fun once she gets going

[turbid falcon]

Yup

[lucid jewel]

Rhystic study ban cant come soon enough

[turbid falcon]

Agreed

Though I totally forgot about roaming throne... I have one somewhere

Maybe I cut the panharmonicon for it

Yeah it's close enough to being an elemental that I'll let it slide in my deck building restriction lol

[leaden tide]

lmao 24 cards in-hand

[leaden tide]

No Rhystic ban, no unbans either

Jeweled Lotus speculators stay loosing

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/commander-banned-and-restricted-february-9-2026

[lucid jewel]

was gonna say LINKS!!

otters eating good i see tho

[leaden tide]

Also a longer discussion article that I haven't read yet.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/commander-brackets-beta-update-february-9-2026

[leaden tide]

Lutri finally out of jail for crimes he didn't even commit.

[lucid jewel]

this is the important peice i think

[lucid jewel]

their discussion on hybrid mana is interesting in this link tho

[leaden tide]

I'll post a tl;dr of the article once I've finished it.

[leaden tide]

Notably, Lutri is being granted a one-time exception to their un-ban policy: They don't think he's strong enough to be put on the game changer list, so he gets to bypass and is just pure unbanned now, just can't use him as your companion.

[tepid stirrup]

I mean if what they're saying is they wanted an outpouring of specific feedback about Rhystic Study before banning it, I think its just one of those conversation topics that's gone around enough in Commander circles that there's some exhaustion there, people don't want to have it again

[lucid jewel]

i cant wait to see the speculative market crying because of this tho

its always good to see their tears

[leaden tide]

Full tl;dr:

• Biorhythm unbanned, remains a game-changer
• Lutri is free, not a game changer even
• Sundering Titan and Iona, Shield of Emeria were considered for unbanning. Ultimately, while they're not the most busted cards, they're also not very fun either so eh.
• Griselbrand stays Griselbanned as well. While much more fun than the above two, he's also much more abusable. Might be a good game-changer candidate, and could shake up the cEDH meta in the future. But no promises of course.
• Jewled Lotus speculators stay loosing.
• Thoracle is unlikely to go any time soon (it's considered strong but not unhealthy in upper level play), they're still keeping an eye on Rhystic.

[lucid jewel]

i think the whole thing is quite a measured approach

not wanting to shake things up too much

and i think i like it even if i wanted the hybrid change

and wanted rystic to be bannered

[tepid stirrup]

Wait is Sundering Titan from that same gaggle of Titans that Prime Time is from?

If so, very funny that it gets a mentioned as "considered" and Primeval Titan does not

[spare harbor]

also farewell is a gc now

[leaden tide]

Yes I'm still reading the other article, I'll post a tl;dr of that when I'm done with it.

[sleek valley]

Nah, Sundering is one of the sins of original Mirrodin block.

[leaden tide]

tl;dr on this one:

• Overall Gavin (and the panel) are happy with where Commander is. 2025 was a busy year for the format, so we can expect 2026 to be a more "cool" year with a slower pace of changes.
• On that note: Hybrid mana is remaining as-is (as an 'and' in terms of identity). Community sentiment is almost perfectly split on the subject, and in light of not wanting to rock the format's boat even more, they're shelving the idea for now. It can and likely will be revisited in the future, but not for a while.
• Similar note, no updates to the bracket system at the moment. While the brackets aren't perfect, they're in a pretty good place and as Gavin said above, they want to make less tweaks to stuff to let things settle in more.
• As Doomstick mentioned, Farewell is now a GC. Aside from Biorhythm, this is the only change to the game-changers list at this time.

[tepid stirrup]

It would be difficult for 2026 to match 2025 in terms of radical changes for Commander

[wanton hazel]

On that note: Hybrid mana is remaining as-is (as an 'and' in terms of identity). Community sentiment is almost perfectly split on the subject, and in light of not wanting to rock the format's boat even more, they're shelving the idea for now. It can and likely will be revisited in the future, but not for a while.
I think they also noted that, as the idea was closely explored, more people seemed to be persuaded to move from 'for' to 'against' changing it than vice versa

it's something that sounds like it would make sense to change, but when you think about the impact it would have, I guess you might think twice

[leaden tide]

Yeah. They don't discuss it much in the article, but I suspect that it's because hybrid mana would feel like the top of slippery slope in terms of what color identity even means.

[charred ruin]

Oh that latter one is really cool

[leaden tide]

If Eclipsed Merrow could go in a mono-blue deck, then why couldn't Deadly Allure go in a mono-black deck? You just don't get to use the flashback.

If Beseech the Queen could go in any deck, they why couldn't Dismember?

And so on and so forth, until color identity would become meaningless.

[tepid stirrup]

I do see the flipside though, in terms of consistency of "hybrid always means or"

[leaden tide]

Yeah. I personally don't hate the idea of the hybrid mana change.

Particularly with colored hybrid mana.

For something like two-brid mana (beseech the queen), I personally think that card should remain black in identity, not colorless. i.e. make it so that hybrid mana is an "or" on colors only, not colorless/colored.

But that would probably be too complicated of a change for casual play, especially when it only affects less than 20 cards.

[tepid stirrup]

I have no dog in this fight, it strikes me as a weird artifact of Commander not being the playstyle Magic was designed for, and I think both sides of this discussion genuinely have a list of good points

[lucid jewel]

i think this is a major reason for them not changing it

[leaden tide]

Yeah it's the main reason Gavin cites as well. Community sentiment is just far too perfectly split.

[turbid falcon]

YAYYYYY

Lutri my boi the OTTER IS FREE

[gloomy pagoda]

No, he costs a slot

[slender moss]

THE OTTER IS THREE (CMC)

[slender moss]

So uh playing Dawnhand Dissident in draft rn and um

so

I may be cycling Kithkeeper through my graveyard ever two turns to get an arbitrary number of Kithkin and stop my opponent from ever being able to meaningfully interact with my threats or attack

Good lord the synergies in this draft format are absolutely amazing

[dense orchid]

No more bringing up Lutri when I play my otter deck! Rejoice!

[lucid jewel]

lutri stonks

[leaden tide]

Apparently AtlA is the third-best selling MtG set ever, after Final Fantasy and LotR.

[lucid jewel]

i love that it shows them how to make good universes beyond

gotta have that passion and commitment to flavour based mechanics that fit well

[leaden tide]

Yeah. I'm still reluctant about how UB is slowly eating the game as a whole. But at least the three best selling ones are the ones that actually feel relatively Magic like.

[lucid jewel]

and also those 3 sets feel like they had real investigation into how to make the source material into a magic set rather than just slapping a hat on a set or slapping cards together

[wanton hazel]

most of the people I talk to in an LGS say they're skipping Turtles, so I'm sort of assuming this is gonna be something of a bust, dunno if it's gonna be a dramatic one or what

I don't really know anything about the Turtles set, I haven't really engaged with the franchise in 30 years so it's hard to really measure it

[leaden tide]

Will be interesting to see. I kinda get the impression that enfranchised Magic players are in a bit of a bubble, but also Spider-Man did big doo-doo in terms of sales.

[leaden tide]

From what we've seen of the set (so basically the whole rare sheet), it's looking substantially better than Spider-Man. But also that bar is in the friggin ground, and TMNT is still a small set that's part of the New York block.

[lucid jewel]

im only not skipping turtles cause my son loves tmnt

[leaden tide]

I'm skipping Turtles myself, and yeah a lot of folks I know are too. It's a good opportunity to rest your wallet in a 7-set year

[wanton hazel]

right now my plan is a single prerelease event to try to figure out if it's fun or not, but that's also finance-dependent

I spent a bunch on Lorwyn prereleases and drafts

[lucid jewel]

strix?

as well ? what do we plan to do for that

[leaden tide]

JordanCon is during Strixhaven pre-release weekend, I'm gonna see if folks at the convention are doing anything with it.

If I can't find anything at the convention, I'm gonna look for the nearest LGS.

[lucid jewel]

doing a draft at jordancon seems doable

or some flavour of sealed at least

[wanton hazel]

Strixhaven for me is right after an international vacation for me, so I don't know if I'll feel like playing all weekend, but definitely at least once

[leaden tide]

Fingers crossed I open that stupid blue kill spell.

[tepid stirrup]

Turtles also just doesn't have the inherent pull of Spider-man

[fierce dragon]

Ngl turtles feels like a bit of a weird pick

Is it really that big?

[leaden tide]

Wizards doesn't really look at the IP's popularity that much tbh, they just take whatever.

Remember, the first UB was Walking Dead

[tepid stirrup]

TWD was the biggest show on television for a year or two there

Turtles has decently high nostalgia value (which counts more considering MTG's market is People With Disposable Income, ie people late 20s+), but I don't think a lot of people are into TMNT in the way they're into Spider-man

[rare sparrow]

0% chance this is true. they are in the business of making money, of course they care about the popularity of the IP they are adapting

[wanton hazel]

I think there are other factors beyond popularity, though, like I wouldn't put it past Wizards for certain MTG sets to be literally sponsored content at some point, 'we want more people talking about those turtles they used to like 25 years ago'

[rare sparrow]

tmnt feels like a combination of knowing most of their audience is in their 30s or older and looking at what properties are good nostalgia bait targets for that audience

[tepid stirrup]

Especially if, as they said in the recent stream they had about the limited run Secret Lairs, they're maxing out their supply chains as it currently stands

[wanton hazel]

I wouldn't say that's what this is necessarily but it's something that's possible and potentially profitable, even if it devalues the product long-term

[rare sparrow]

i think ATLA is "closer" to sponsored content in that it was likely originally intended to coincide with the release of the upcoming theatrical ATLA sequel movie

[leaden tide]

I mean they're obviously not going to go for some obscure web-comic maybe 20 people have read. But like, not many of their UB choices feel particularly timely and topical. Walking Dead was huge yes, but the secret lair came years after its apex.

[rare sparrow]

but if it was really intended primarily as a tie-in, they would've pushed the date

[leaden tide]

It doesn't affect sales that much, but Wizards isn't really hunting for the most topical and current cultural-zeigest properties.

[tepid stirrup]

So what you're saying is, Destiny has a chance

[rare sparrow]

they aren't looking for "what's hot among zoomers right now" they are looking at "what are things millenials have nostalgia for/enjoy"

[leaden tide]

My wallet hopes not

[rare sparrow]

because that's who their audience is, not young people

[leaden tide]

Destiny is one of the few sets I'd have to collect a masters' set of.

[tepid stirrup]

I also think there's some degree of, deals get made and then it takes so long to actually put together that the obviously-relevant window passes them by sometimes

[rare sparrow]

so sure, tmnt is not "popular" right now, but it is something a lot of people in their 30s and 40s have a lot of nostalgia for due to the cartoons and comics from the 80s and 90s

[leaden tide]

Yeah the FF set was reportedly in development for 5 years, when most of Wizards' in-house sets take 2-3 years.