sand fossil
Hello Scapers,
As part of the Dungeoneering Refresh & Remaster, we’ve been reviewing reward shop pricing and level unlocks. While we already have a strong sense of which items need adjustments, we’d still love to hear your thoughts.
Are there any unlocks that caused you friction in those earlier levels? Which items do you priotize over others?
Please note that this discussion is focused solely on the reward store, it's costs and level requirements, not about wider Dungeoneering balancing.
thick egret
The shop was initially designed in a way where players would be able to get a reward at a certain level (level 80 tier gear at level 80 dg) but you had to make a choice between rewards (you couldn’t get everything).
Nowadays most of the rewards are either niche or provide a permanent passive.
The reqs need to be removed unless it makes sense thematically and the costs need to reflect the type of reward.
Permanent passive should remain costly but consumables or degradable rewards should be cheap.
torpid solar
To be honest all the useful unlocks take so long because you get naff all tokens at low DG levels
solemn crater
Can't wait to see all the drop cleaners become basically free because people don't want to spend time unlocking them
plucky crow
Chaotics take far too long to get nowadays where T80 isn't relevant. If the dungeoneering level and token requirement could be at least halved, I think it would sit well as a budget option for mid levels while also training dungeoneering normally (also dual wield chaotics cost 50% more tokens than 2handed chaotic for no good reason)
river ravine
The permanent upgrades, particularly the bonecrusher, the charming imp and the (upgraded) gem bag feel like a must before getting into proper combat early game, which drives a lot of people towards elite dungeon token farming rather than actually engaging with the skill. Currently you'd need to be around level 75 dungeoneering to get all 3 of these with just daemonheim dungeoneering. I feel it would be good if the prices/the rate of getting tokens was adjusted so that you could afford all 3 by getting around level 50 dungeoneering via daemonheim. (This would match up with the 40-50 needed in combat stats to start farming cerberus currently).
undone kraken
The permanent upgrades, particularly the bonecrusher, the charming imp and the (...
Thanks, these are 3 in particular that we'll be looking to address
keen vine
really, a lot of those upgrades should be moved out of the dg shop entirely, and moved in to something new players are more likely to participate in, and be replaced with something else (regarding bonecrusher/necklaces and other earlygame stuff)
theres obviously a problem with all the t80, theres just better options that are more available.
im still of the firm opinion that EDs and dungeoneering being linked, and potentially more linked is only a good thing. so a lot of the stuff that crosses between is probably fine
limpid axle
Maybe this is just me, but I feel like the cosmetics are very overpriced for being cosmetics:
Sneakerpeeper feels more appropriate at 85K tokens
elder seal
Just massively reducing the cost to items that are low level unlocks.
For example, you unlock bonecrusher at lvl 21 and costs 34k tokens, if you just do floors to lvl 21 you will have around 500 tokens.... doesn't really make sense.
And this isn't even a low level problem, when you first unlock chaotics at 80 even if you haven't bought anything else you won't get enough tokens from doing floors, only from ED minibosses.
So in other words, reduse token costs massively or reduce them slightly and increase how many tokens you get.
I would merge the daemonheim related rewards from the elite shop into the main shop and rebalance the costs of them. The Elite outfit should not cost 200k for just a blueprint, skill door boost being 600k is silly. I would also add the ability to buy outfit pieces for x number of tokens to speed that up.
solemn crater
It's hard just picking a few things since the whole shop needs some love. Or just the rate of getting tokens.
limpid axle
Just massively reducing the cost to items that are low level unlocks.
For examp...
Agree, 600K tokens for a glorified weak potion buff is insane
barren flower
Not sure if both the reward and elite dungeon reward shop are being merged into one or if that was considered in the first blog post, but the things in the elite dungeon rewards shop seem way to expensive (esecially elite dungeon chest upgrade) and considering the fact that the only way to get dung tokens will be threw completing floors after the update.
sly radish
honestly I'd say keep DG tokens available through Elite Dungeons, It makes no sense to seperate this.
however simply improving normal Dungeoneering Token acquirement and XP will resolve only a bit;
There are so many problems within Dungeoneering that make players not enjoy this as content in general.
In regards to Bonecrusher, Gem Bag and such; these items realistically should be cheaper or potentially acquired by other means.
vocal marsh
Is Chaotic equipment still worth the 200K token grind?
sharp geyser
This is probably pretty unrelated and not so much of a problem with the cost of the store, but early level dungeoneering can be really helpful at a low level for other skills. Maybe the gathering/daimonheim scroll can be reachable so that it can be used at the low level where utilizing other skills are more impactful.
sly radish
Is Chaotic equipment still worth the 200K token grind?
absolutely not; there are numerous of alternative equipment's significantly better.
scenic barn
meilyr potion recipes costing 500k tokens is insane if you can also just find them whilst dungeoneering
raw imp
It would be nice if we had an expensive item to bring chaotics to at least t90/t92 with a req to make it at 110/115 dungeoneering. Something to give a reason to want to return to dungeoneering past 120. The chaotics used to be such a great way to create activity in both dungeoneering and across the game because you didn't need to judge what people were using. Even the shields all held relevance. It's been almost 11 years they've, alongside dungeoneering, has been in the dustbin of history.
Even if there was like a chaotic stone that could temporarily charge a weapon for some passive effects that wears off to warrant us to return to farm floors. Otherwise without reason/desire to return to it what's the point of even touching the shop?
wooden dagger
Dying and getting reduced exp which = reduced tokens should not be a thing for early levels. I know people rush through them but someone like me who is new and can't do such a thing because of low levels... dying sucks. I spend at times hours on a dungeon just to get 75 tokens. And that is discouraging to continue.
I say, the first 2-3 types of floors (frozen, furnished, and abandoned) shouldn't cost any death penalties. Then, slowly introduce the penalties as % per floor type. 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%. This still makes that Arch relic useful as you get it later in that skill anyways.
raw imp
Dying and getting reduced exp which = reduced tokens should not be a thing for e...
this is a nice way to ease someone into dungeoneering but I think it should be based on your level and not the floor because truthfully at 120 dungeoneering I can get a ton of tokens from floor 1 large c6. As you become more experienced in a skill the training wheels should come off.
keen vine
the penalty in it taking more time should be enough really
slate sandal
the earlier game unlocks (specifically bonecrusher) should either be moved to a higher level unlock or cost an amount of tokens more equal to it's level.
plucky crow
hot take but I kinda miss it when dungeoneering needed you to prep food and potions instead of fully rushing ahead. For that reason I think death penalty should stay imo
covert quartz
To my mind elite dungeon farming was a sticking plaster over the issue that daemonheim-dungeoneering was released with the expectation that players would grind 104m xp there (and therefore receive 10.4m tokens), and for various reasons that's no longer the case. It would be nice to see either tokens received from DH increased or costs scale down to see what drove people to ED farming in the first place addressed. this isn't simply a low level issue imo - daemonheim needs to generally repitched as one method of dungeoneering rather than being the whole of the skill.
I don't generally see much benefit from level reqs on unlocks, especially DG level reqs, subject to the proviso that development remains at least fairly restrained in observing 'tokens come from DH only' as a general principle (e.g. it's not an issue that kalgerions drop tokens very rarely; it is an issue that EDs are generally a better way of obtaining tokens - though I would like to see EDs repitched as a primary DG training method which does not award tokens).
I think for people who do want to do daemonheim for 200m xp, it would be good to see consumables added to shops - broadening the ports enhancers to other forms of enhancers might be a good shout.
raw imp
Just to break my previous post up into two seperate opinions. The reward shop should have a reward or two in it that gives incentive to return to dungeoneering. If I remember correctly by the time you're 99 dungeoneering you can literally afford everything within the shop that is actually important and desirable to have. The remaining 90M xp in the skill has little to no incentive to farm for tokens outside the level itself. And that completely dies at 120 dg with absolutely no incentive to ever touch the skill again. If we need to return to herblore, crafting, fishing etc post 99s there isn't a reason the shop shouldn't give this same feeling as well.
The chaotics used to be the reason. Now there isn't one.
feral jolt
The permanent upgrades, particularly the bonecrusher, the charming imp and the (...
I fully agree. The charming imp takes far too long especially
oblique python
Another pain point i'd mention is upgrading the ring of kinship also costs tokens.
Past tier 6 it becomes extremely expensive and you'd have to consider if you want to spend your tokens to dg better or to get rewards from the shop.
It's a requirement for the daemonheim hard diaries to upgrade your ring to t10, costing about 300k tokens.
I think the meta for this achievement was to reset the ring after doing the task just to get your tokens back?
It'd be nice if the ring upgrades were cheaper or if there was an alternative way to upgrade it so tokens can be solely for spending in the shop.
keen vine
people mostly did EDs as an alternative to dg overall though, not necessarily to just get token items.
and i dont see how they can 'fix' dungeoneering that doesnt also ruin it for those that enjoy it, it definitely needs an alternative style of play, like literally every other skill in the game. an alternative like... EDs
slate sandal
To my mind elite dungeon farming was a sticking plaster over the issue that daem...
ED's should reward tokens since it's a form of dungeon but they should be in box form added to the loot tables, so while you can get tokens there for engaging in said content they should not be awarded all of the time, maybe specific minibosses have a higher chance of dropping a token box that are off the main route that you have to go out of the way for and main bosses should have a rare chance to drop token boxes. just my thoughts
covert quartz
so my personal view is that if you crowd out tokens, daemonheim doesn't really have exclusive reward space and that is a problem
therefore, EDs should have tokens at least drastically reduced, but it should continue to be recognised that they are a dungeoneering activity by improving xp and adding dungeoneering level requirements to enter them
quartz yew
Ring should directly gain points from XP gain, and you may simply allocate points from there.
With focus on new player experiences - a large amount of checklists are from dungeoneering (Charming Imp, Bonecrusher, Scrolls, Demon horn necklace) and as others mentioned, it puts a lot of pressure on to solo grind the skill. ED3 is great but doesn't help early game players - token gain should be buffed in regular DG rather than nerfed there.
keen vine
why does it need an exclusive reward? fletching doesnt have an exclusive reward for arrow making, vs bowcrafting other than the items themselves, which can be obtained otherwise. nor do combat skills, or slayer (no master has a specific outside of the new wildy stuff and raptor chests i guess?).
feral jolt
I think for me, charming imp feels like such an essential qol item that it drowns out all the others
keen vine
its not the standard, but sometimes an exception. let people decide whats fun for them
wet knot
why does it need an exclusive reward? fletching doesnt have an exclusive reward ...
because daemonheim is a lot more major content than fletching
feral jolt
I think for me, charming imp feels like such an essential qol item that it drown...
and means that tokens are basically unusable for your first million xp
wet knot
id love to see daemonheim rewards be direct drops from completing floors, with the token shop acting as a 'pity system'
hybrid echo
Some people here are saying that prices should be reduced, especially for consumables... while I agree that drop cleansers / passive boost for doors could see a price decrease, I'm quite defensive on consumables - there are quite a number of ed grinders who currently share how many billions of tokens they have gathered and are waiting for dung update. Considering which consumables/tradables there will be - it will heavily impact the market and will convert those millions of dg tokens into trillions of gp, this should be in the focus before introducind shop changes. Not sure yet, but maybe introduce new type/version of a dung token? Maybe with a limit how much/how long you can convert. (still needs some brainstorming). But ed - dung link should be preserved in some form, otherwise it will be just other dungeons/boss location
raw imp
why does it need an exclusive reward? fletching doesnt have an exclusive reward ...
fletching benefits ranging, crafting benefits magic and ranged, smithing & mining benefits melee
if those skills carry over into each other why shouldn't dungeoneering, which encompasses every skill in the game within it to progress dungeons, have something that can benefit exclusively the rest of your character?
keen vine
because daemonheim is a lot more major content than fletching
only because you want to make it so. but we all know theres a huge divide in people that want to do it, and those that dont. either, you try and force people in to dg, and then get a watered down version noone likes, but isnt so bad, or you let people get rewards how they want to get them with alternate styles and everyone wins.
covert quartz
why does it need an exclusive reward? fletching doesnt have an exclusive reward ...
I would call those arrows and bows exclusive rewards - it would be an issue if fletching was no longer the fastest way to obtain rune arrows (shops aside), for instance. likewise, slayer mobs have unique drops (or they should do where this is not currently the case). every piece of content should have rewards which are unobtainable, or obtainable only at slower rates, elsewhere
(I say this as someone who is not a huge fan of DH)
sharp geyser
being able to find tokens inside of dungeons themselves would be cool. Doesn't even have to be that much. get like 10 from a thievable chest or whatever.
keen vine
yeah, you're not wrong in that really, but generally there are other methods of getting either of those. the fastest way to obtain both arrows/bows is by getting gold elsewhere and buying them.
slayer drops are rewards from the level, not from the task for the mostpart, so thats not really an argument that tokens cant be elsewhere.
and as it stands, tokens are fastest in normal dg, right? its only at low level that theres a parity, because low level dg is pretty bad.
wet knot
id love to see daemonheim rewards be direct drops from completing floors, with t...
one of my major issues with the dungeoneering shop is that it feels too predictable and like a minigame to me, and introducing loot tables would add some intrigue to getting xp in daemonheim
tacit jackal
Things like charming imps, bone crusher should be attached to their respective skills. Rethinking them into items like a blessed flask (although for these items a lesser grind). This would create room for dungeoneering to have its own uniques
feral jolt
I think dungeoneering seeming like a minigame is to some extent unavoidable, it is a minigame in skill form fundamentally
wet knot
I think dungeoneering seeming like a minigame is to some extent unavoidable, it ...
yea but having all rewards only obtainable from a token shop doesnt really help
introducing passives/specs to chaotic gear would also make the weapons not be litterally worthless to 99% of accounts while also making mid level pvm a lot more interesting
twin zinc
I think when it comes to Dungeoneering the Level Generation should be based around the Skills you have leveled, as well as the requirements; most times I haven't been able to finish mapping an entire floor because a Rock requires 105 Mining when I only have 54 Mining, which is ridiculous imo for an F2P to do(and more or less asks for Members).
Having it based on the highest skill in the party also means that you're waiting on that ONE person with 120 to actually come over and unlock the door through Skilling.
keen vine
introducing passives/specs to chaotic gear would also make the weapons not be li...
but powercreeping items to make them more interesting is kinda how we got here to begin with. they need to be made viable for the game in its current state, and being made realistically obtainable for that period.
though, t80 gear probably does need something
wet knot
but powercreeping items to make them more interesting is kinda how we got here t...
they got powercrept by the existence of stronger stat sticks that are easier to obtain, not stronger t80 options
covert quartz
yeah, you're not wrong in that really, but generally there are other methods of ...
the disparity is minimal if it exists
I know for a fact that getting 300k-400k tokens doing token farm methods is super-viable. this equates to 3m-4m xp/hr base at daemonheim. perhaps people are beating that at the top end but I don't think it's by much, if so (I'm certainly not good enough to get those rates myself)
keen vine
they got powercrept by the existence of stronger stat sticks that are easier to ...
these did, yes. but if you're slapping a passive on to them, they devalue other gear. that should be avoided at all costs, or its creating another problem.
either, they need to be made more obtainable only, here, or all t80+ weapons need passives too
twin zinc
Also, I think we need an alternative way of obtaining Skins for Ranged other than buying them through the Shop since it requires a Members Skill to even obtain when it comes to F2P. The only other option is selling everything in the dungeon just to get enough money to buy a few skins and make an Armor Piece.
raw imp
but powercreeping items to make them more interesting is kinda how we got here t...
Is it really powercreeping an item though if it's available for everyone for free? I mean if you remember when chaotics were the best weapons in the game the entire game benefited across the board. There were more pvm teams, more people training skills, and more people dungeoneering for tokens to recharge the weapons. Obviously you dont want to kill t95 weapons with a freely accessible weapon.
But if necromancy is pathetically easy to obtain a t90, and drygores dont even hold value anymore why shouldn't chaotics have access to be powered back up to viable weapons
keen vine
the disparity is minimal if it exists
I know for a fact that getting 300k-400k ...
if thats the case, then maybe only the top level needs changing, if at all. and definitely not removed. either way, i dont see that as a big problem. right now, people do dg because they enjoy it. they do ED token farms because they enjoy that more. both are good. options are good, and thats not the problem with dg.
the problem with dg is that the skill itself is ass for a large portion of people. its so ass that they jump in a hole for next to no exp. forcing them in only makes people angry for no reason other than probably ego.
wet knot
as i said before, dungeoneering would feel a lot more rewarding and interesting if they attached loot tables with dungeoneering rewards, skilling supplies, crafted weapons/armor runes etc.
the shop can remain a way to guarantee you getting an item if you go sufficiently dry
keen vine
Is it really powercreeping an item though if it's available for everyone for fre...
if something is being given out free, yes, thats powercreep. its reducing the importance of other items purely to be valued, when that could be done by just... making them obtainable instead.
would i like t80 to be more interesting? absolutely. but that needs to be all of them, not some of them. and definitely not starting with the dg ones for an activity a lot people hate.
wet knot
and i do think making the experience feel more rewarding is vital if theyre going to be making the dungeons harder to complete
keen vine
the problem isnt that dg isnt rewarding though. the problem is that the skill is annoying to train. the skill has great unlocks that are super expensive in time to get. making it more rewarding isnt the answer. the rewards need to be obtainable for their target audiences.
wet knot
if something is being given out free, yes, thats powercreep. its reducing the im...
chaotics are the prime target to recieve a passive because its the t80 that requires the most hard work, since it is untradable, the game should reward players that don skip progression steps with gp and engage with multiple kinds of content
raw imp
if something is being given out free, yes, thats powercreep. its reducing the im...
but if the item upgrade is locked behind a dungeoneering level or later floor unlock it becomes not as "free" because of the grind to get to that point. It would be the equivelant of building a masterwork spear vs buying a t90 weapon. One is faster, the other is a grind. Both are viable.
covert quartz
I think it's probably also reasonable to reduce ED tokens to either 1) remove tokens from minibosses (but maybe give them guaranteed roll(s) at the lucky charm table) but leave them on the main bosses; or 2) reduce them to 1k-2k per kill, rahter than removing them entirely
I don't think saying 'people do token farming because they enjoy it' is particularly credible - it's because it's an easier and usually quicker way of obtaining tokens for most players than DH. DH needs at least a clear, very large advantage over any other method in respect of token acquisition
wet knot
just because you dislike daemonheim doesnt mean that it should remain mostly dead content
i hate divination as a skill but that doesnt mean im gonna say porters should be availible from other sources en masse
i do think people would be more driven to do daemonheim if it had any rewards that arent untradable, worthless and/or one time purchases (or require extra work like the drop enhancers do)
devout cedar
Whatever may or may not happen with the price of Chaotic weapons I would adjust the prices of the dual wield weapons so a main and off hand set cost the same as a two handed weapon
keen vine
but if the item upgrade is locked behind a dungeoneering level or later floor un...
but its not a t90 weapon, its t80. and.. as a t90, you're now starting to devalue pvm grinds that are much more difficult. and.. its making t80s even more worthless because you can just get one super easy from a large token grind, instead of hitting gwd2. we have that for gwd1 already, no iron (outside of those doing specific challenges) uses that gear for a reason.
coarse kraken
make chaotics great again (circa 2012)
wet knot
grinding dungeoneering is harder than afking gwd1 with necro
keen vine
I think it's probably also reasonable to reduce ED tokens to either 1) remove to...
so, its just the best exp in the game, then? also it has recipe drops, and is some great skilling exp while in there. id say it has its perks already. but what happened to just liking something because its more fun? that should be the choice we have. in an ideal world, exp/tokens gains between both would actually be pretty even
coarse kraken
remove tokens from ED and DK collection, incentivise players to actually hit the floors
devout cedar
Maybe you do this by bundling the main and off hand Chaotics/Gravites together into one purchase rather than having them be separate shop items. Basically I don't see a reason for a dual wield set to be 300k vs a 2h being 200k when they are largely the same.
wet knot
the main issue with tokens is that the shop is mostly non repeatable outside of slayer and ed drop enhancers
more consumable items would provide longievity to the skill that sorely lacks post 120 (hell even post-99) content
keen vine
remove tokens from ED and DK collection, incentivise players to actually hit the...
why make people that are currently ok with the experience, now forced to participate in a skill method they hate, just for the sake of it, though?
coarse kraken
im just suggesting based on what jagex game direction has been like - remove OP stuff
wet knot
why make people that are currently ok with the experience, now forced to partici...
players disliking DH is another conversation entirely
keen vine
it is, but thats an issue that should be adressed before trying to force them in to said content
raw imp
why make people that are currently ok with the experience, now forced to partici...
because it's a skill and the entire point of this year is for players to get back to actually playing the game and all that it encompasses with a few alternative paths to avoid some of the things you don't want to have to do. If you need dungeoneering tokens you should be forced to do dungeoneering. Just like if you need ores you should be forced to go mine or buy it, same with wc, same with fishing etc
wet knot
which they are, dungeoneering is going to get improved
coarse kraken
jagex already teased that they are toying with that idea - so dont shoot the messenger
fleet flame
I'd like to add my 2 cents, as someone who grinded 99 dg on release, to just recently getting back into dg on my new iron
The elite reward shop feels balanced around the obscene amount of tokens you'd get from MTX, all the unlocks to do dg faster... You'd be over 99 before being able to afford them all, and while the skill does go to 120 it's another skill that's completely ass to do until 90+
covert quartz
why make people that are currently ok with the experience, now forced to partici...
because it's long been a core part of RS and broader RPG design to incentivise specific aspects of the game with unique rewards. same way it's bad when dyes or fortunates become accessible from stuff other than clues despite some people disliking them; same with blubbers only being accessible from fishing being good despite the method being utterly tedious
wouldn't object to some kind of trading/market system for tokens as well as mains have generally long been able to pay to skip content they don't like
keen vine
because it's a skill and the entire point of this year is for players to get bac...
the problem here though is, they are trying to remove a bandaid on a skill thats largely disliked. not globally ofc. but noone can say that its not a well loved skill by all. unlike dailies and mtx, its fairly obvious what its problems are, because we do still need to do that content, its not skippable outside of just wanting exp.
keen vine
because it's long been a core part of RS and broader RPG design to incentivise s...
in the same way they make most items in the game tradable? id argue that most things in the game arnt exclusive to its specific piece of content. theres a lot more than there was, but that doesnt mean going in that direction for every single thing is good.
coarse kraken
im just excited to see people actually doing dg runs post refresh
getting rid of prestige means no more confused people going "this is ass" and throw in the towel after 2 floors
covert quartz
what content does not have unique rewards? I'm not saying all items are unique, whether that is the case is a different question (and also irrelevant since DH is a major piece of content which has its non-xp reward space almost entirely constituted of tokens)
wet knot
i gtg but to sum up
i want rewards to not be solely tied to tokens
i want more repeatable things to buy
i want one time-purchases and untradable gear to reflect the time investment you put into them with increased power
keen vine
what content does not have unique rewards? I'm not saying all items are unique, ...
anything that gives tradable stuff isnt unique. its not unique if its buyable.
covert quartz
ait gl
wet knot
i hate div but im not saying to have porters be availible from other sources in quantities that eclipse the original method
keen vine
-shrugs- its just frustrating to see people advocate for something only for the reason of making other people's experience worse, as most of you have probably finished the dg grind already, or can just do that grind because it exists now, and isnt particularly worse.
id love for the skill to be improved, then would probably sit in the camp where it can have exclusives that are impactful, but that improvement has to come first. and alternate methods are just healthy in general.
raw imp
-shrugs- its just frustrating to see people advocate for something only for the ...
on the flip side of this - many ppl who dont have time and bought mtx and spins could say the same thing. What creates more in-game activity should always be the correct choice.
keen vine
but this isnt talk about more in game activity. this is about moving that activity somewhere else, that a lot of people dont want to go to already
raw imp
no it's about rewarding a skill that requires you to level up every other skill in the game in order to properly play it with incentive for everyone to do it. Is it not?
keen vine
afaik, dg doesnt require you to level anything. its mostly a placebo that places targets based on your current levels. optional paths sometimes require boosts, intentionally. its optimal path, which is always the ideal way to go and ignore all else (in terms of rewards) is always possible with your skills.
undone grotto
Just gonna be that guy and say to remove the dungeoneering store & tokens and make all rewards be possible tradeable drops from completing floors/dungeoneering content. The store and tokens are a huge reason as to why dung is basically a mini game. What even is the rationale behind wanting to keep the store and tokens? Just because it's like that?
Imo, the store and tokens only make dungeoneering worse. It removes possible ways to make money through dungeoneering that are exiciting and make sense for a skill. Why have looting bags when actual drops can exist. The big ticket items i mean. Further, it just creates weird scenarios with dungeoneering like elite dungeons giving tokens and now you can get rewards from other places by doing other content that is not in daemonheim .
The shop and tokens have never made sense for this skill or any skill tbf. Please remove both. The skill will be a lot better for it.
edgy vigil
I half love that idea half hate it. Because no one wants to go 60 floors deep without getting bone crusher, for example.
But you could have them attached to milestone floors instead which then award the item upon completion.
But there's also the issue that most of the unique things are something people want/need once and never again, so they wouldn't hold up price if they were tradable (and should skill based unlocks be tradable in the first place?)
keen vine
could just move things like that that already have purchase costs via slayer (as in, to add to tool belt in that case) to just be obtained from those methods, instead. and keep the others and add more.
opal hollow
meilyr potion recipes costing 500k tokens is insane if you can also just find th...
Agreed. I can't believe people are talking about chaotics over this. I get Meilyr recipes are niche but theres quite a few good ones and they take so long. After all is said and done, your out millions of tokens just unlocking them all for comp. You could get lucky and find a couple but chances on my main and iron have been slim. I'm grinding arch just to get the tokens faster to purchase. It's insane how many potions you gotta buy for 500k each.
fierce plover
Chaotic weapons 5k for dw and 10k for 2h
faint elk
Final Upgrade to the Gold Accumulator has always been my long term goal across all 3 of the characters I used to play.
But at the current cost and Elite Dungeon unlocks I'd be hard pressed to prioritize it unless I was actively swimming in tokens, and given how infrequently I do Dungeoneering and the crap return rate on tokens I don't think I'd be getting it anytime soon
sharp roost
I'm personally looking forward to this update, as someone with 120 Dungeoneering but yet to get 200m and requiring a lot more tokens for completionism purposes. Here's my 2-cents:
Please consider reducing token cost on fully upgrading the rings too.
On reducing shop item token costs, would decoupling token gain from xp gain be worthwhile? Could possibly help with allowing lower levels to gain meaningful quantities of tokens to spend on game-changing upgrades at the appropriate levels. This could then scale to increase the ratio of tokens earned to reward costs at higher levels.
Personally, one of my biggest challenges atm is Player Owned Ports, not having enough voyages to complete once I've rerolled ones that have no chance of succeeding. And 50k tokens for an enhancer that might give me the wrong thing is wild @ 500k xp to maintain a daily D&D.
Appreciate tokens are available via Elite Dungeons, but there's plenty of us that aren't quite there on the PvM front, or don't aspire to be.
crisp minnow
Shouldnt the charming imp be a slayer related reward anyways?
hollow glen
To be honest all the useful unlocks take so long because you get naff all tokens...
Here here
spark wing
Tokens need to be heavily shifted to where the only real viable way of acquiring significant amounts is from Daemonheim conventional dungeoneering. I might see an easy fix to this be to make tokens 1:1 with DG XP from DH, and prices in the store modified accordingly. The secondary benefit to this is that no changes would need to be made to neither elite dungeons nor the archaeology collections by virtue of those methods inherently becoming significantly less efficient for token acquisition. Ring upgrade costs would also not need to be adjusted if this is done, since they would become naturally more easily accessible.
Elite dungeons were fundamentally designed as a bandaid solution to a skill that at the time was 'too much effort to fix', but with the dungeoneering skill refresh being on the agenda, I think it should be made clear that EDs are secondary to conventional training of the skill.
I think a lot of the proposed updates to dungeoneering itself would do a lot to improve the experience of the skill for a lot of people, and that's something that has been seemingly mostly ignored here, by just looking at it from the perspective of the current DG..
If this store update were to be made separately from that dungeoneering refresh, we're just looking at another band aid patchwork that will need to be revised again down the line, which should be discouraged in general.
vivid lagoon
The gold accumulator is too damn high
spark wing
I like Joey's idea for giving chaotics a facelift as well, be it through adding a tier upgrader or adding niche passives to them.. (deals increased damage/is up-tiered against relevant monsters, perhaps? See Stalkers, Kal'gerions, and within Elite dungeons in general? Just a thought)
This would allow for conventional dungeoneering to also serve as a stepping stone for getting into PVM in the elite dungeons by providing a way of acquiring good weapons that have a conditional high tier unique to the locations without impacting the value of weapons acquired elsewhere in other content.
As for refreshing the store itself alongside this, think updated planned reduced costs x10 to compensate for the now 10x faster token rate in dungeons, and on top of that add useful consumables that incentivise continuing to do dungeons, be it through enhancers, reward bags with niche resources etc.
main atlas
Either prices come down or token generation from Daemonheim goes up.
The levels to token ratio never made sense in the DG shop costs. Why even have the level requirements? Perhaps just remove them and have only the token cost to take away the dissonance of seeing "level 21" and needing level 62 worth of tokens to unlock the bone crusher.
wet knot
I half love that idea half hate it. Because no one wants to go 60 floors deep wi...
id say keep the token shop as a pity system, if you go dry on a drop you just buy it
maybe a choice to sacrifice your drops for dung tokens like osrs royal titans
undone grotto
Just remove the shop and tokens plox. I think it would help if people could get chaotics as drops and then could sell/buy with gp. Would help if the dungeoneering req to wield/use chaotics was removed or at least reduced.
undone kraken
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions so far everyone. Seen it a few times so just to address i do plan on rebalancing the price to upgrade through the tiers on the ring
crimson hinge
I think the shop interface could do with a refresh, it kind of looks messy
wet knot
would also love to see more irrelevant gear pieces get a face lift to encourage gear source diversity
edgy vigil
Tbh I do wonder if the ring would serve better just being disconnected from tokens entirely.
Have it upgrade based on floor completions/milestones reached increase
wet knot
like having kree/kril/graador all drop entire sets of t75 is frankly really boring
undone kraken
I think adding some minor effects and lowering the cost on some of the lower tier weapons/equipment might be a nice way to give players more of an upgrade path
undone grotto
I think additional drops that could be used or attached to give current chaotics passives could be neat. I'd say special attacks but we already have too many of those
wet knot
having glove slots, boot slots, weapons, shields etc. be significantly more worth it to obtain from daemonheim would be very neat
swapping some damage bonus for accuracy on the dungeoneering amulets would be a really cool reward space (or just give a very high accuracy bonus without any tradeoff)
covert quartz
if any kind of rng element is added please make sure they're being tracked for a future collection log (or have a clog on release)!
undone grotto
A dungeoneering collection log would be neat too, ppl like those. Would work quite well if the store were removed and items became drops...
keen vine
I think additional drops that could be used or attached to give current chaotics...
actually, to change on that idea. what if instead, there were unlocks to give passives to in dg weapons? similar to ones we have outside. might add some gameplay variety for potential difficulty. expanding on the idea, sorry if the reply is annoying.
undone grotto
actually, to change on that idea. what if instead, there were unlocks to give pa...
That be cool too! There could def be more varience in combat inside daemonheim. Would getting upgrades to do special attacks be too much?
wet knot
id love to see the weapon diversity beta effects assigned to t11 weapons
keen vine
right now, absolutely. but id strongly suggest adding a huge amount, probably infinitely scaling difficulty to dg anyways for gameplay reasons. infinitely, as in the better you are, the further you go, and the more rewarding it should be, with no real limit.
wet knot
id love to see bosses on lower floors to be about the same difficulty as like vorago, rax, kk, sanctum etc. in mechanical difficulty
covert quartz
as much as I am team #ragoeverywhere, I think that's probably too difficult on the basis that skills probably need to be accessible to everyone
edgy vigil
Tbh that's more a discussion for the DG revamp thread.
(And also God please no I don't want to learn high end pvm to do DG)
keen vine
yeah, it mainly came up because a reward space for in dungeon power could be a thing.
but you shouldnt need to do high level pvm to do dg. it should be optional, potentially better due to difficulty, without nerfing current rates.
wet knot
fair enough
if were adding loot rolls to dungeoneering a rougelike enrage mode could be fun content
keen vine
yeah, ill probably make a writeup when a more specific topic about gameplay comes around, for an alternate mode thats not too different to require too much effort.
wet knot
might make a game sugfestions thread of the kind of rewards i would like
crimson hinge
Does anyone use the first tier of amulets at all? (Just looking into things that havent been talked about much)
keen vine
good for early protection prayer sustain
wet knot
f2p bis right?
edgy vigil
Likely not, due to prohibitively high cost on obtaining them Vs other more useful (and evergreen) unlocks
crimson hinge
I mean specifically the non-prayer ones. Bis f2p are the second tier amulets.
Anyway yeah if they were cheaper and lower level requirements (e.g. 15 mage/range/attack), they could be part of the new player upgrade progression.
spiral spindle
The first tier of amulets are worse in every way in f2p and should be better than than the non dungeoneering variants.
Amulet of Magic (1.2k gp) beats the dung magic amulet.
Amulet of Strength (3k) gp beats the dung melee amulet.
Amulet of power (4.6k) beats the dung range amulet.
There’s never a reason to get these since amulet of magic and such are very easy to make with very low requirements.
Mercenary gloves lvl 73 is beaten easily by undead dragonhide vambraces which is 4k gp and level 75.
Who would ever buy mercenary gloves for 50k tokens when it has worse stats than a 4k gp undead vambraces.
Would be awesome if they got unique effects or a way to stand out more.
undone grotto
Really wish similar things could just get upgraded so we can only have 1 item instead of 3 and if anything stats just revert back to f2p stats or lvl 50 or whatever whenever ppl are in f2p
meager elk
Things that feel overpriced for how early you want to get them:
Things that are just clearly overpriced:
Things that need to be buffed because they're kinda bad and never worth:
Oh I see kyoro made some same arguments as me 👍
spiral spindle
Glad we had the same thoughts ^. Because I totally thought the same for the other items you mentioned ESPECIALLY the potion recipes being 500k.
There’s 9 recipes, that’s already 4.5 million tokens!! That’s like 45m dung xp just for the recipes alone.
meager elk
You're just strictly better off gambling on buying cards for yak cards always currently
crimson hinge
Good points, I hadn't compared to the standard f2p amulets. All the more reason for them to cost less tokens, just like those mercenary gloves.
There was a time where elemental runes were dirt cheap and the law staff was somewhat worth using, but not anymore. I guess it could be turned into a passive unlock instead of being a staff, and maybe count for lodestone teleports too. As for nature staff, there's a niche use where it's used as bis non-degradable f2p staff, rarely used for its nature saving aspect.
spiral spindle
Would love to see shields options for the f2p being added. Would also love a dual wield magic chaotics option and a 2h range chaotic bow option.
meager elk
For some of the rewards, specifically pets, I don't see why they can't be drop from respective creatures and have tokens as the bad luck mitigation. Giving you a chance of high rolling and saving having to spend them.
Specifically:
ashen kite
I think Gravite weapons, Chaotic weaponry and Bonecrusher Prices could be lowered.
Here are some Dungeoneering Rewards that should be available to F2P players:
These are not game breaking and would provide a good QoL.
undone grotto
The dungeoneering outfit should be removed, it was a product of mtx and does not fit dungeoneering at all, notably daemonhiem. If anything just make this a cosmetic override. All boosts are already passives anyway
meager elk
Its semi on topic semi off topic, but here was a loot proposal that idk if Jagex has seen. Since the remaster blog did talk about giving daemonheim loot for doing floors, and this suggestion does delve into that and integrating the token shop rewards as well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1rzw17q/dungeoneering_remaster_daemonheim_loot_proposal/
undone grotto
Tbf, a lot the rewards don't even fit dungeoneering at all. It speaks to the lack of identity the skill has or the refusal of actually integrating the dungeoneering skill itself in a meaningful way that effects or changes gameplay throughout the world of gielinor.
Having an item to pick up your coins or charms is nothing but simple quality of life, that could be done through any skill or outside of skills.
I'd be interested in seeing equipment from dungeoneering have boosts or effects when doing content in other dungeons, whether it's killing mobs in the brimhaven dungeon for example, or getting ore from the living rocks cavern area.
With that said resource dungeons need to re-styled. They're basically already extensions of existing dungeons, yet look like they're doors to some other dimension or something.
spiral spindle
Book of frost suggestion:
How about make it into a book pocket slot item similar to godbooks with a unique effect.
Have the pages be buyable with tokens (consumable reward option)
or
Have the pages as dung completion loot (dungeon completion lootation route)
Please bring back the Celestial Surgebox! It was removed with the introduction of EoC.
The tome of frost can be the ftp pocket slot book and the Celestial surgebox can either be the members pocket slot item or even a unique ammo item.
Celestial Surgebox use to be the shit back in the old school Pre-Eoc days. Bring its former glory back! ❤️
undone grotto
Tbf, a lot the rewards don't even fit dungeoneering at all. It speaks to the lac...
Remastering stuff is nice and all but I'm worried this is a waste of time when the skill itself really needs to be looked at and examined as to how it can be implemented throughout the game in a meaningful way that affects gameplay. These have been issues not only with Dungeoneering, but also Agility and Construction.
Imo, this does lie in making improvements to Daemonheim, but also expanding dungeoneering content outside of it. Removing the shop and tokens would go a long way. As would removing dungeoneering requirements from certain gear. Something that makes items valuable is the lack of certain reqs. Imo, removing the 80 dung req to use to chaotics, but keeping it so only people with 80 dungeoneering can get them would make them more valuable. It's one of the reasons the whip was so prized back in the day. Any1 with 70 attack could use it (many so there's lots of demand!) but only a few with 85 slayer could obtain it (low supply).
If there could be a good tradeable item that requires 120 dungeoneering but only 95 def or combat skill to use (and it's good!) this would go a long way to making dungeoneering porfitable by a long shot.
spiral spindle
Celestial Surgebox use to have a crit effect in pre eoc old school days. Jagex predicted Magics crit identity 16 years ago hot damn. Ammo slot crit pouch please.
spiral spindle
Remastering stuff is nice and all but I'm worried this is a waste of time when t...
Dungeoneering having scrolls for like farming and such is good since dungeoneering includes like all the skills in the game. It’s a support skill so it complements other skills well.
humble jolt
The vast majority of items in the DG shop are less useful and cost more time investment than rewards from the thaler shop.
You should be able to spend DG tokens as you level and not feel like you made a mistake. Jagex, you either need to massively increase the amount of token gain, reduce the cost of items by 10x, or remove the noob trap items that only serve to give players buyers regret.
undone grotto
Dungeoneering having scrolls for like farming and such is good since dungeoneeri...
That's fine. A support skill should support others in some ways. Imo, the issue here has been as to how exactly does daemonhiem support other skills? Atm, It's basically a bunch of different ways. Scrolls, things that pick items, new areas, weapons/gear. Imo, there are a lack of rules here. For example, Agility, gives you access to new areas via bypassing obstacles. Further, there is a grounded identity as to how it benefits other skills, by having faster movements you're able to pickpocket more, etc. Like I said before, for dungeoneering it seems to be all over the place.
spiral spindle
I guess instead of agility being baked into supporting thieving for more pickpockets or fishing with double catches, it is in scroll form.
When it comes to dung.
undone grotto
I guess instead of agility being baked into supporting thieving for more pickpoc...
scrolls are fine but the way they are obtained, buying them from a shop does little to give identity to the actual skill, unless making it seem like a mini game is meant to be part of the indentity, which I say, why?
What if instead when wandering through dungeons you find scraps of the scrolls and can later put them back together when you get enough pieces. This fits the skill's indentity of a whole lot better because you find them as you explore the dungeons.
spiral spindle
It kinda does in a way, but instead of scroll scraps in a dungeon, it is tokens. Unless you are talking about like dungeons such as Brimhaven dungeon or such
undone grotto
It kinda does in a way, but instead of scroll scraps in a dungeon, it is tokens....
The little things matter, notably when it comes to immersion. The thing is the tokens are not scraps of a scroll. They are currency which you can use to buy stuff from a shop.
You somehow get them, whether it's from killing mobs or just finding them around, we don't really know. Why would the trader even want them? What does he use the tokens for?
To answer your question be best for both
dark crane
The way tokens are scaled to be proportional to xp is the main problem imo, since it means you can barely buy anything until you at least reach the mid-high levels. There should be some degree of scaling but it shouldn't be as harsh at it currently is, which means reworking the system so it's not directly proportional to xp.
Regarding the whole "nerfing tokens from other sources" thing. I think it would actually be better to buff tokens from daemonheim itself to be competitive with them. This gets rid of the early bird bonus effect.
solemn crater
It shouldn't be competitive. It should just be the best way to get tokens and not be close
edgy vigil
The way tokens are scaled to be proportional to xp is the main problem imo, sinc...
Tbh could always add a scalar. Every 10 levels you get 5x more tokens or something (I would also be in favour of having solid meaningful first time floor completion bonuses)
manic lance
-shrugs- its just frustrating to see people advocate for something only for the ...
Alternate methods should be an option, but shouldnt be the go-to option over training the skill as how it is intended to train. Even if you dont like the skill.
fallen citrus
Gold accumulator needs to come down, a QOL like that shouldn't cost a fortune
brittle raft
Add a scroll of s-Um-thing or other, that costs 30k dg tokens and gives a % chance to save the catalyst of a necromancy ritual
dark crane
Tbh could always add a scalar. Every 10 levels you get 5x more tokens or somethi...
oh yeah first time completion bonuses could be interesting
5x more tokens per 10 levels is actually much worse scaling than currently though
edgy vigil
Oh no I mean a ramping one. So at 120 you're getting 60x more than the current amount
dark crane
yes I interpreted that right
my problem is that at lower levels you can barely buy anything, then the unlocks come very quickly when you hit mid-high levels. this worsens the problem
edgy vigil
Hence the improvement to first time completion to offset the rally issues, whilst providing an easier time farming tokens later on
unkempt sleet
Don't know if it's been mentioned yet but the Arcane, Brawler and Farsight necklaces are quite weak for the effort required to acquire them. They're generally lower in stats compared to their enchanted counterparts from the Magic skill. Aside from the blood shard attachment for the highest tiered versions, perhaps they could all have a shared passive to spice up their usability for the lower tiers in progression?
crimson flicker
I feel like the main issue with the dg token store is twofold.
I'm not quite sure how to address this, in all honesty - only thing I can really think of is adding a reward to activate overloads in dungeon "permanently". It'd be a 2-part unlock - part 1 to unlock the ability, part 2 to actually charge the buff. For example, 500 tokens for every minute of overload used within a dungeon. Rough idea, nothing worked out, but just one way I can think of to maybe drain some of the token supplies people have through active gameplay.
The chief pain point with a lot of dungeoneering rewards, in my opinion, is stuff like the charming imp - unlocked at level 21 dungeoneering, but unless you're doing elite dungeons, it's impossible to get until like 63 dg because it costs 100k tokens. I'd recommend either upping the level requirement, or lowering the token cost. The imp is just one example, there's a myriad of items that suffer from this issue.
pure notch
Gravite is in a weird spot. For members, it's useless. By the time you have the DG tokens, you're already way above T55.
For F2P, gravite is still one of the best weapons. But, 360k for all gravite weapons is way too much. Basic cost of all should go from 40k to 10k DG tokens, at least.
Chaotic should be adjusted as well, the base cost of 200k DG tokens should go to 100k DG tokens, at least.
Secondly, DW weapons are at a heavy disadvantage over 2h weapons. If chaotic maul costs 100k DG tokens, DW chaotic longswords cost 150k DG tokens. Why is DW 50% more expensive than 2h? Redistribute the token cost 2/3 eg 67k for main hand weapon and 33k for off-hand weapon.
pure notch
To my mind elite dungeon farming was a sticking plaster over the issue that daem...
Hear hear. Runescape needs a Dungeoneering rework, not just a Daemonheim rework.
undone grotto
If the items were tradeable and only accessed as drops via daemonheim it would solve a lot of those issues imo
cold stirrup
Moving forward I think it’s best to
edgy vigil
Point 5 should in theory be nullified by some of the proposed changes to DG iirc
fallen sand
yeah much rather rushing as a concept be removed than triple down on it by making it easier to skip lower floors
unkempt sleet
Bringing back Celestial Surgebox in a refreshed form could be fun for Magic.
fallen sand
it's gonna be an ingredient for a celestial rune pouch
undone grotto
it's gonna be an ingredient for a celestial rune pouch
This gonna be an upgrade to the graspin rune pouch or it's gonna be something new we can make from regular rune pouches?
fallen sand
the former, I'm not relaying anything jmods have said for clarification
severe granite
Maybe make f2p items cheaper? There are less ways to get tokens as f2p, anyway i hope this get fixed with dungeon balancing
A free/memb filter at shop would be nice
fallen sand
the first use of the celestial surgebox was storing runes specifically for certain spells, that could be an angle for a rune pouch upgrade or sidegrade; the second effect was a forced "crit" every 5 casts
undone grotto
hmmm... this might sound silly but I'd be interested in being able to store multiple rune pouches inside a celestial surgebox
edgy vigil
Maybe make f2p items cheaper? There are less ways to get tokens as f2p, anyway i...
In theory primary method to get tokens should be the same for f2p and p2p - i.e. running floors, so no real reason to specifically bring down f2p costs instead of just costs in general
severe granite
In theory primary method to get tokens should be the same for f2p and p2p - i.e....
Yeah, but right now you can spam elite mini bosses to get 5k tokens per each
So as i said, i hope this fixes with dungeon balancing
sick karma
As a few others have pointed out, dungeoneering tokens are too infrequent at early dungeoneering levels when doing floors.
I don't think the issue is inherently that the things in the DG shop are incorrectly priced, nor do I think that the store really needs much of a refresh; just that there aren't enough tokens given early.
I think you would see far fewer complaints about the prices of things if, like I said, you were able to get some of the things from the shop at earlier levels. I'd do this by awarding a fixed amount of tokens every time you level up dg. And when I say fixed amount, I mean don't make it scale with level; every level should be the same, which would give you more early (the goal) as you need less exp early to level up.
snow ermine
I think thats being addressed in the refresh update. Youll be getting more tokens at lower levels to make them worth doing, and less at the end, to make it more consistant.
And instead of a prestige system youll get buffs for completed floors that follow you as you go
junior quest
A few thoughts off the top of my head:
I didn't buy anything until I had a full chaotic set. That meant that tokens didn't really start doing anything for me until level 90+
Meilyr potion recipes felt too pricy, but without the consistent yak card (when gorajo cards are removed) I think I would feel like I needed to spend tokens on them (and it wouldn't feel good).
Tome of Frost feels bad as a reward now that staffs are 2h items (meaning they can't be used with an offhand item like the tome). I used to use an air stuff + tome of frost for free water spells, or I believe lava battle staff with tome of frost for 3 flavours of rune for other magical adventures.
Ring of kinship upgrades costing a cumulative 300k+ tokens and there being 12 flavours (for 3.6m+ tokens total) felt pretty steep but I think the curve was fine (could get all to level 7-8 for like 150-200k or something). Maybe consider looking at the token curve on those upgrades (and bring the total of maxing a role down to around 200k or something) /shrug
If Necromancy's gonna get new ring effects, I feel like that's all the more reason to consider it.
Dungeoneering elite outfit blueprint I feel should just be a levelling feature rather than something to drop a chunk of tokens on. You can start gathering fragments for it at level 80 I believe and it would take every token you would have earned to unlock the thing that makes those fragments useful. Espcially since most players won't really know what the outfit even does before they get it and can read the effects
Overall I didn't really have much trouble with earning tokens and getting rewards but I hit 200m exp (spending tokens on the last chunk) so the elite dungeon reward shop stuff meant grinding past 200m which was fine but my experience with that shop was at the top level with good binds etc so I don't know where that stuff would have fitted in in the levelling process.
The thing I've bought most since cleaning the original shop has been shifting tomb reward enhancers and even those are few and far between.
wary finch
Buff OR -90%:
Chaotic claws and spear (spec of base item)
Scroll of dex/proficiency (work like smithing scroll and work at fort)
Merc glove (power armor)
Poison totem (see aura blog)
Law/nature staff (buff chance to activate AND boosts MTA)
Tome of frost (t55 merge with gravite orb? or pocket slot idk)
Zealot (make it buff 2 new prayers)
3x Scrim upgrade scrolls (aggro scrim on more than 1 npc at a time pls 🥲)
Other (nerfs? 🤔)
Vigour (make it req a useless skill like agi or firemaking and more expensive)
Scroll of cleansing (insanely strong for only 20k)
Spirit cape (split the passive to a scroll, reduce cost to match)
Perfect (almost):
Gem bag/upgrade (split ugrade tier to common gems pls 🙏🏼)
Auto heater/upgrade
ED chest
Advanced gold accumulator (split in 2 tiers, one that charges more tax)
Bonecrusher
Charming Imp
Herbicide (could be cheaper since its in the beans store)
--.
Must standardize cost of DW gravites and chaotics with 2h.
Remove (or cut price by 80-90%):
Consumable gold accum
Notepaper/outfit blueprint
Dung/gorajo wild/cards
Shieldbow sight (see Breezy's retiring)
Make cheaper (40-50%?):
Renewal scroll (f2p? Increases healing like expensivr spices make
Scroll of Daemonheim and gathering
Meilyr recipes(!!!)
Skill door boost(!!!)
Black stone arrow
Most of Bryll's stock
Gravite/chaotic
Convert to upgradable tiers to declutter shop, and make reclaimable from diango (like ghost hunter so it scales in f2p):
Bird skull/split dragon tooth/demon horn (Maybe zealots, or new tier for Dragon rider amulet's 2x dragon bone xp)
Power necklace
covert quartz
oh - it would be good to have the DH quick teleport be basic functionality in sinkholes specifically. It is a very big competitive advantage to have it (comparable to something like greater chain or double surge)
hardy gyro
I think if we’re taking tokens out of EDs then we should let every Lucky Charm drop be accessible w/o charms, and having charms just makes the roll like 3x more likely to happen
So the best route is DH to buy charms then EDs to consume them, but if you just want to run EDs forever you still can access charm drops
meager elk
oh - it would be good to have the DH quick teleport be *basic functionality* in ...
I still think sinkholes should be a random event while doing daemonheim floors
meager elk
I think if we’re taking tokens out of EDs then we should let every Lucky Charm d...
If we're removing dungeoneering tokens from them, I see no reason that minibosses can't just inherently roll on the table without enhancers.
That would give some reason to fight them.
(Though idk if that would bring back trash farming, so maybe thats a bad idea)
hardy gyro
Or make every mini boss roll on the lucky charm table, but that might incentivize ED1 mini boss/Cerberus farming again
acoustic lion
I’ve seen quite a few people wanting the bone crusher to be cheaper and it’s requirement of use being 21 dungeoneering and prayer help to encourage that. Idk though, the toolbet and adding items to it is such a milestone, I’d dislike seeing that sense of achievement diminished.
I think with the addition of the bone crusher maul being T40 it creates a great opportunity to make the toolbelt bone crusher a T70 or T80 item like the chaotics. Leaving a solution to lower levels and a cool upgrade to higher levels. I think the same could be applied to the other pocket items, whether it’s charming gloves, or a familiar, i think a little creativity goes further than a price adjustment. Lock in infinite auto pickup to low level weapons/armor and have high level tool belt upgrades. I’d actually rather see the bone crusher maul combine with a dungeoneering item to create the bone crusher. Would give a use to the maul beyond T40 and would create something you take with you while pushing lower levels to learn bossing from Ivar.
lime pecan
There's a real tension between wanting the QoL items that most affect other gameplay —Bonecrusher, Seedicide, Charming Imp — to be more available and the fact that they're more or less the best unlocks in the shop at this point.
Regardless, the current scaling of tokens vs unlocks is way too harsh. Token prices need to be reworked so that it is more feasible to buy items as they're unlocked.
Dungeoneering level should be the primary thing that determines when an item is unlocked. (And not becuase you're farming tokens elsewhere.)
There can still be room for choice about what comes first, but people shouldn't be afraid to spend tokens for so long. If you really want to give a sense of choice, you could have the items unlock in batches as you move to new sets of floors (perhaps the Trader discovers new items to smuggle out as you go). But make it so that you can afford to get the core upgrades by the time you get to the next set of floors if you aren't spending outrageously on consumables.
(E.g., when you hit level 30 and reach the Abandoned floors you get a new set of items to choose from. You don't have to wait long to be able to afford any one of them, but you have to make a choice about the unlock order. You still can get all the core unlocks by the time you hit the Occult Floors if you're playing normally and not spending a ton on consumables).
I'm not sure if that's really feasible with the existing rewards though. I think the main thing is that it doesn't feel good to hoard tokens for so long and that it feels bad to "unlock" something you won't be able to get until much later if you are playing naturally.
I do also like the suggestion of having the ring of Kinship upgrade with XP instead of tokens so that it's not directly competing at least. You could still charge tokens (at an adjusted price) to reset your allocations.
meager elk
A thought, since ring role upgrade prices was mentioned.
Is necromancy getting a ring track, like the other 3 styles? Tracks like
mortal jay
Shieldbow sight needs a massive rework to actually benefit the state of ranged and not in a way where players feel they should just stick to dracolich
Allow room for new creative measures.
The tome of infinite water does nothing convenient for its magic tier level
rose sable
It would be interesting to reconsider the Dungeoneering reward space. I'm of the opinion it never really landed as a good piece of game design.
Remove tokens and the reward shop. Redestribute many of the rewards elsewhere in more appropriate places. What would that direction look like for the skill?
lofty mica
this shop in particular doesn't really make sense outside of the cosmetics. the chest upgrade could be a reward from opening an elite chest, the abilities and scrims could come from the ED's rare drop tables, ect. Honestly, even the cosmetics could be tacked on as drops from appropriate mobs, a magma golem pet drop from actual magma golems in ed2 would be another hype moment.
undone grotto
It would be interesting to reconsider the Dungeoneering reward space. I'm of the...
Strongly agree. Dungeoneering is basically like Slayer. Except you can only train slayer in Shattered Worlds and the rewards are only what you can buy from the Shattered Worlds shop.
This is just a terrible way to go about a skill. Dungeoneering needs to expand further into the world of Gielinor and be properly integrated. Elite Dungeons were a step in the right direction.
A huge step toward that right direction would be to remove the shop and tokens. Daemonheim dungeoneering needs it's own unique rewards that can only be obtained by doing daemonheim dungeoneeing. The best way to do this would be through drops.
Just imagine if in pvm all you got were tokens and you could buy all rewards with that currency, it severely devalues specific content.
By having its own unique drops, other dungeoneering content could flourish too while daemonheim dungeoneering has its place and remains valuable because of its unique drops.
It upsets me how primal and all the ore was just put randomly on the daemonheim island without little to no requirements. These are tied to daemonheim and dungeoneering lvls or ways to get this ore in the overworld would've done well to add value to the skill. There could've been crevices around the island where you could go in with a high enough dungeoneering lvl and in those crevices there could've been ore and perhaps other resources that have somehow warped or emerged their way out of the main daemonheim dungeon.
It pains me of the wasted potential dungeoneering holds. It could honestly be one of most fun, versitile skills in the game. Heists could've been dungeoneering content, there could be all sorts of dungeons to train dung that give their own unique rewards. A desert/pyramid one, various caves, vampyre ones, A lost temple in karamja, the potential goes on...
tacit jackal
This will probably be too complex but i would love for dungeoneering to be changed into a roguelite dungeon delver, always starting at 0 and trying to get as deep as possible. Unlocking relics that can synergise with certain abilities making them possibly broken, but bosses and monster scaling will increase too ofc.
Keys need to just disappear, they make it awefull. Running around for silly keys, i’d like a better solution for that. The puzzles are fine i guess, but keys need to go.
And rewards could be tokens for unlocks within deamonheim (unlock easier progression) & actual rewards for delving deep into deamonheim as a “drop”
^ whole ass rework but i wanted to get it out lol
junior quest
this shop in particular doesn't really make sense outside of the cosmetics. the ...
Although I agree that it some of these drops don't fit Dungeoneering, I like that they're attainable for a more casual player and not locked behind hardcore bossing like so many other things.
sinful timber
not sure if this has been said (sorry its a long thread and i am not going to go read it all):
dungeoneering tokens are acquired at a rate of 1 per 10 xp. you need 21 dungeoneering to use a bonecrusher/herbicide/charming imp, but at the unlock rate for tokens from daemonheim this would require 340,000 experience (which is level 62) for the first two, or 1mil (73) for the imp.
if these are kept here: imo, these should probably unlock sooner given their level requirement (maybe some sort of tiered unlock, where the maybe the first one you get around 1k tokens, then 10k/100k?).
steel basalt
Tbf, a lot the rewards don't even fit dungeoneering at all. It speaks to the lac...
imagine ring of kinship combat effects being brought out
as OP as it sounds, it of course can be counter-balanced with some downsides to each choice
dark crane
oh right the ring of kinship is another weird thing
steel basalt
Strongly agree. Dungeoneering is basically like Slayer. Except you can only trai...
elite dungeons from what i understood, is how dungeoneering really works in other mmorpg
rs's version of it, is as you said, having no clear identity aside from what the devs wrote they wanted the identity to be
which i think should be completely scrapped as an idea, instead of being so limited by it because they just want it to fit
there is no product market fit right now for the identity they want
and trying to force it into the market will be a failure
dark crane
I remember my thought process being like "ok I gotta minimise spending on other stuff first so that can fully upgrade the ring of kinship for the hard tasks, then claim my refund and buy the other stuff"
which is like kind of terrible considering max ring of kinship required Level 85 worth of tokens if doing pure daemonheim
polar bramble
polar bramble
this shop in particular doesn't really make sense outside of the cosmetics. the ...
yes useless lol
steel basalt
1. Everything is wayyyyy overpriced. 2. Add new unlocks that are relevant that a...
masterwork necro would have both deathdealer and warden's passives 🫠
edgy vigil
Necro gear already is largely masterwork in concept tbf. More heavily skilling based to get with a few bits of bossing
crude lodge
i think i have 3 main thoughts regarding token pricing
1, stuff is probably too expensive for daemonheim token supply to fulfill the demand in a way that's satisfactory to the player's progression
2, ideally, when a player hits a certain dung level for some shop unlocks, they have have an amount of tokens that makes them feel like they have to make a choice on what to get, but neither too few that they want to hold on to them for a later unlock, nor too many that they can get everything immediately upon reaching that level
3, we should strive to make the both of the above better so we can remove tokens from elite dungeons as they mess with the daemonheim economy too much
sidenote, yes, i know the elite dungeon shop uses tokens also, it should probably use some other (new) currency
and the outfit and door boost should be moved to the shop run by marmaros
coarse narwhal
I dont know whether my input is helpful as someone who has been playing for about 14 days now but my experience with Dungeoneering thus far (level 35) is that the skill and the rewards don't really add up? I wanted to get a Gem bag which is only 2000 tokens and requires level 20 Dungeoneering to buy but by 20 I had less that 700 tokens which is fine but then you look at something like the Charming Imp that only requires 1 more level but somehow requires 100k tokens?! The thought process behind effort/reward seems to be massively imbalanced if something that is deemed to be worth 100k tokens only requires an extremely low level in that skill. Even if I run dungeons all day I will not get 100k tokens until probably 70-80 Dungeoneering so the cost of items and its requirements should be adjusted according to the level it has
junior quest
not sure if this has been said (sorry its a long thread and i am not going to go...
I like tiers honestly. Gives value quicker (eg: a charming imp could be gold-only initially, or not be able to eat charms) with future unlocks to improve the utility.
edgy vigil
On the idea of tiers, it could be done as a milestone unlock and then tokens after
E.g. all drop cleaners are bundled into an unlock at say level 20, and when you hit 20 you get a token allowing you to get one item from that category for free and then have to buy the rest later on.
I do kinda feel like the drop cleaners are very expensive for when you access them, but at the same time they're so strong over the life time of an account they probably shouldn't be gained that early
undone kraken
I dont know whether my input is helpful as someone who has been playing for abou...
Of course it is! Hearing from someone experiencing the skill for the first time is incredibly valuable to us, thank you. Dungeoneering is definitely starting to show its age, so with this refresh we’re aiming to tackle those known issues while also making the early and mid game levels feel more rewarding, alongside a range of other new additions and features
I have collected a nice amount of feedback since yesterday which has really helped me think about good solutions to the problems you are all listing in this thread, appreciate it everyone 🫡
coarse narwhal
Of course it is! Hearing from someone experiencing the skill for the first time ...
I do want to say that the actual gameplay of the skill felt very fluid and my only other take away for what would be nice to change is the gear binding system because having to remake the same melee set almost entirely after every floor is not terribly fun. I could understand it resets after every session like when you fully leave but after every floor feels a bit meh. Also thank you for confirming my info can be of some use!
undone kraken
The binding system is being addressed as well as part of the main update
junior quest
One thought on tokens is 10 xp = 1 token might not be the best approach.
One thought could instead be making it a chunk of tokens + 5% exp or something, and that chunk could be balanced per style (eg: the skillers who clear all resources may get more tokens but less exp per hour vs. the speedrunners who go for the exit ASAP) and level of floor etc /shrug
undone kraken
One thought on tokens is 10 xp = 1 token might not be the best approach.
One th...
Have been considering something close to this
meager elk
I still hope the idea of loot rooms in daemonheim is something that might be explored
edgy vigil
Chance to find tokens whilst gathering resources/killing mobs would be nice.
Similar to the "issue" of all exp being dumped into you at the end of a floor
meager elk
junior quest
I still hope the idea of loot rooms in daemonheim is something that might be exp...
I'm hoping for lore rooms! That's outside of the scope of this thread but imagine stumbling upon Bilrach's old study down on floor 30 or something. 😆
coarse narwhal
A first time bonus reward for clearing a floor or boss could also be a nice little early game boost for tokens if they are cleared under certain conditions (Full clear with minimum of 2-3 complexity) sorta thing
edgy vigil
There is one of those ATM I believe... It's just in the region of like, 10 tokens 😂
junior quest
A first time bonus reward for clearing a floor or boss could also be a nice litt...
From the blog, complexity is getting removed. I think it mentioned there only being 2 flavours (high- and low-complexity)
meager elk
Imagine, you do a dungeon and you find a dragonkin room with a projection in a dead end room of the floor.
It offers to upgrade your ring of kinship by one tier in a role for free.
Suddenly player is aware that 1) kinshop roles exist and 2) They're given a reason to ponder which they'd upgrade
And you got a more interesting room to find than oops dead end have some more monsters to fight I guess
coarse narwhal
From the blog, complexity is getting removed. I _think_ it mentioned there only ...
Oh right! my apologies I had forgotten that part of the blog
junior quest
One other change (not directly store related but it could tie into reward acquisition) is hard mode being better in some way. I remember it was a harder floor with no extra benefit other than checking a box and maybe a lil more combat exp.
Probably out of scope for this thread but figure will mention anyways in case it does make sense to be tied in somehow.
wet knot
My 2 cents on what design direction id like to see DH rewards be taken in
right also the mercenary gloves would be t78 power gloves
the chargebox would also have a Charging (15s) to discourage any fsoa power creep swapping shennanigans
the diabolical saw would be an item used in the creation of the chaotic hasta together with the chaotic spear if it wasnt clear
wary finch
Have been considering something close to this
Hey Reaper, you had a lot to read! I'm sure this will help, from glancing now and then, it seems most people focused on the same key unlocks, which is why I spent most of my time of the "trash" or mid stuff!
(I'm not sure if we are there yet, but I think some of these less important upgrades could simply be looted inside the dungeon or EDs, like the recipe for black stone arrows upon first defeating BSD, or the notepaper blueprint upon first finding a full lore book of one ED
I'd also like it if we could smuggle out (or add as externam drops) a few of the unique drops out of Daemonheim. Namely the shadow silk hood (power armor from new araxyte slayer mob?) silver/gold precision bracelet (idk, has to compete with black spiky vambraces so unlikely to be super useful I guess?), frostbite dagger, hailstorm dagger, and flameburst defender, seeker's charm (wearable), doomcore staff and honestly everything on this article with little tweaks could make good early-mid game rewards https://runescape.wiki/w/Dungeoneering/Slayer
steel basalt
My 2 cents on what design direction id like to see DH rewards be taken in
i like the maul spec, but not sure how it would stack against or compete with stat ham?
i think a direct competition isn't really a good thing, because we see the same happening for ddagger, dlong, dmace - and more recently, darkbow vs gloomfire
while it seems cmaul would be a lower tier version of stat ham, it doesn't have much of a difference in effect to distinguish it, is there?
steel basalt
My 2 cents on what design direction id like to see DH rewards be taken in
ambush is great. love that it changes an ability function, which is what we want to see more
wet knot
i like the maul spec, but not sure how it would stack against or compete with st...
its worse than swh in both adren and the actual reduction, but more convinient to use due to the extended duration, its 35% +5 for 1 min vs 65% +4 for 2 min
wary finch
My 2 cents on what design direction id like to see DH rewards be taken in
This is really cool, but I dont think we need any more melee chaotics when there arent even chaotic bow and wands yet, probs make those first before adding more "clutter" or add spec to existing ones first
steel basalt
its worse than swh in both adren and the actual reduction, but more convinient t...
so, what's the use case?
2min bosses at t80 is rare.
and i think duration at that level is hardly a concern already
wet knot
so, what's the use case?
2min bosses at t80 is rare.
and i think duration at t...
i mean making the t80 > t90 jump is mostly long winded high defence bosses, rago, kk, aod, raids etc.
as well as acting like a budget swh in higher level stuff
undone grotto
We got shard of genesis to upgrade t95 weapons to t100. What if we got a new drop from doing daemonheim floors, higher floors giving you much higher odds at getting such item, to upgrade t95 armor to t100. Could be chaotic/warped stone/essence, whatever
wary finch
i like the maul spec, but not sure how it would stack against or compete with st...
Affinity debuffs stack "perfectly" so it would power creep SWH where accuracy matters a lot.
ie, trio of adventurers use SWH, barrelchest and CMaul to add 5+4+4 affinity [35+50+65% adren]
currently the same 3 adventurers could only do 5+4+3 [35+50+30] with a dragon/crystal axe
Uhh, it's not a whole lot more, but it is more dmg than Anchor
Eithe way, lets stay on topic, yeah? (Myself included 😅)
undone grotto
One other change (not directly store related but it could tie into reward acquis...
Fr, i find hard mode more annoying rather than more difficult. It's basically just increasing the list of things you have to do to finish a dungeon. Make hardmode rewards better too imo
steel basalt
We got shard of genesis to upgrade t95 weapons to t100. What if we got a new dro...
probably not going to happen due to balancing issues
i think someone also asked for unique zam drops in story mode, but making it 1 in a million
it got mostly rejected
undone grotto
probably not going to happen due to balancing issues
i think someone also asked...
I mean could make it unique to warped floors or something too
hardy gyro
probably not going to happen due to balancing issues
i think someone also asked...
You can get zam uniques in story mode at 1/500 (no bad luck mitigation) so I guess that guy won?
steel basalt
i was wrong lol. damn. can literally bot this then.
edit: oh i think it was asked for NM amascut and NM sanctum also. anyway, that's just going to trivialize HM somewhat?
anyway, for dungeoneering, i don't think it is meant to be PVM-level of bossing, though for years, I've argued that dungeoneering bosses have better mechanics than PVM bosses
it would save so much development time if they just brought them out
wet knot
I mean could make it unique to warped floors or something too
still too easy of a source ngl, considering genesis essence comes from HM sanctum and HM amascut, some pretty damn difficult fights
undone grotto
still too easy of a source ngl, considering genesis essence comes from HM sanctu...
could make hard mode dungeoneering actually hard, make it a hard mode dungeoneering unique and maybe we could fix 2 birds with one stone.
Daemonheim dungeoneering needs good items to stay relevant. Something like this would go a long way to do that.
fallen sand
decouple hard mode from elite tasks before you do anything else with it
polar bramble
I have collected a nice amount of feedback since yesterday which has really help...
we appreiceite you bro thanks yea honestly adding useful upgrades will be huge and new equipment armor weapons cheaper pricing on old stuff
polar bramble
This is really cool, but I dont think we need any more melee chaotics when there...
agreed we also have not even included Necro stuff yet either
Please add more items for range, magic and Necro options! T90 T95 items... Also can we make shields relevant agian or is that in the Defense/HP update lol
undone grotto
This will probably be too complex but i would love for dungeoneering to be chang...
Hmmm... Yeah I have to agree that it might just be best for keys to open doors to be removed. Missing one, notably in a large dungeon can really make your experience when doing dung a really bad one.
If they're to remain maybe you just auto obtain keys once you enter the room they are in. Maybe you get a message, "as you enter the room you find the 'orange square key"
or maybe once you enter specific rooms where they keys would normaly be now, specific locked doors would just automatically unlock or something. "As you enter this room, the orange square door is unlocked" etc
scenic barn
Aside from this store refresh thread, I personally am not excited to see invention added to daemonheim, same for archaeology but care a bit less about that.
Back on topic; I had started an ironman, wanted to get some daemonheim rewards like the charming imp. But the insane high prices for the abysmally sad amount of tokens awarded per floor takes away every reason to do actual dungeoneering. I skipped straight ahead to elite dungeons to clear minibosses to gain tokens that way instead.
Significantly reducing prices in the shop and making rewards like chaotics, scrolls and other items available as drops from clearing floors as well as available through the shop at a balanced price compared to the new token reward rate would entice players to return to the minigame skill.
I also think elite dungeons should not give out tokens anymore. Tokens from archaeology collections should be removed too.
junior quest
Question for everyone: What do you buy once you have all of the rewards?
I'm guessing it's lucky charms and reward enhancers mostly, or nothing so there's a stack of just-in-case tokens if new rewards come out.
With dungeoneering soon giving loot, I wonder if a loot bag or something would make sense to add to the shop. A little gacha element.
For 5k/10k/50k/... tokens, buy a frozen/furnished/warped bag of goodies.
Contains random misc. stuff like coins, salvage, seeds, small chance at components or chaotic essence or something. Maybe some bigger items like demon hunter gear or blood necklace shards/hex hunter bows which contribute to slayer logs.
cinder jacinth
I have had a thought while i have been slaving away doing smithing these last few days, and something from the artisans workshop shop made me think of a potential new reward for the dungeoneering shop which would benefit players.
The solemn smith perk from the shop gives increased exp for burial equipment, what if there was a similar perk for dungeoneering doing floors.
1% increased exp for completing (insert floor here)
2% increased exp for completing (insert floor here)
3% increased exp for completing (insert floor here)
it could even be increased exp per prestige? possibly a 0.25% increase per prestige or something ( i have not got the capabilities to do the maths and figure out a good cap)
but this way you could get a boost for exp and increase the exp rewards from running more floors
polar bramble
Man im just hoping for some solid rewards I dont need to do any Dung but Id go back if the rewards are wroth the trip I'm maxed in the skill and want a reason to go back but if the rewards are still terrible and there is nothing high tier i wont even waste my time.🙏 please make it worth it Devs!
bronze siren
The various neckwear items really should be upgrades of their lower tier variants, as is, you wanna skip the weaker ones to 'save tokens'
bronze siren
The basic gold accumulator purchases are basically a noobtrap, it would probably be better to be a weaker version of the advanced one, with more tax e.g. 20%
Also a toggle to pay dung token to disable that gold tax, might not be a bad token sink
thick smelt
I think dg tokens should be entirely disentangled from dg XP. A token shouldn't be 1/10th an xp. It just causes friction points and leads to the skill being something that can be "finished" when the shop is bought out.
I'd suggest there be more useful things added to the store at varied price points, including some consumable/degradable things then changing the token gain from a floor complete xp thing to either a per door opened at small rates and based on floor/prestige or make it a boss drop where it scales both on the grouping of floors that boss appears on as well as players personal prestige. Ideally neither of these would be player specific allowing for cooperation rather than competition that would lead to solo only habits, but should also have some balancing factors put in place to prevent leeches/alt farming such as an afk timer that requires you to have opened a door every few minutes, picked up a key, or damaged a boss/mob.
undone grotto
I think dg tokens should be entirely disentangled from dg XP. A token shouldn't ...
It is interesting how tying tokens to xp is a thing. This seems to go against a philosophy i've seen from the jagex team of wanting different sources for great gp rewards and great xp rewards. Tying tokens to xp basically means whatever gives the most xp also gives the best gp rewards, which goes against this.
Gonna say it again, but remove tokens & the shop and make the rewards tradeable drops, which require no or low dung lvl to use, but keep them obtainable only through specific dung lvls and daemonheim floors. Watch as people have great incentive to dung for these rewards and make bank.
thick smelt
It is interesting how tying tokens to xp is a thing. This seems to go against a ...
While I like this in concept I feel like it would just be another thing I'd have to sink hundreds of hours into rng for, hoping for the right drops. I'm already having difficulty finding a shadowsilk hood, imagine if all the rewards were that difficult to get. I definitely still prefer a slow guaranteed grind for great upgrades rather than rng. If they do take your approach I hope the drops have a threshold of number of floors done/specific mob killed as bad luck mitigation.
fierce plover
Has it already been suggested to combine the 2 stores into one?
undone grotto
While I like this in concept I feel like it would just be another thing I'd have...
While I hope they take this approach cause imo it just be better. Doesn't seem like they're likely to do it, since they haven't even acknowledged the possibility.
I see you're an ironperson. Tbh, I keep seeing a lot of irons disagree with a lot of possible changes for things because it would increase their grind. Imo, Irons just need their own seperate ways to get things or something.
Stuff like what I have suggested works because you can just buy the items if you can't/don't want to get. It's perfect for making content profitable. Can't do this in ironman ofc. I suppose it could possibly be balanced through bad luck mitigation (blm) maybeeeeee
wet knot
While I like this in concept I feel like it would just be another thing I'd have...
ive brought up the idea of the shop remaining as a form of dry protection, where you can sacrifice your rng roll for loot to get a guaranteed sum of tokens to buy uniques with
thick smelt
ive brought up the idea of the shop remaining as a form of dry protection, where...
Oh that gives me a brilliant idea that would work both ways: a chest like at sanctum/gate that stores loot over time, with specific loot tied to floors or mobs like how EDs do it, with tokens being a common/guaranteed drop.
I don't think they'd be open to making the loot tradable, but that'd be a fun way to do it if they did. If it remained untradable we'd need a way to convert/sacrifice loot to tokens for duplicates.
If they don't take any of these approaches and just change the prices/earn rate I think they just need to make it so you can at least get the loot around the level you unlock it. Atm you unlock some things at lvl 21 but can't afford them until late 50s if you spent no tokens anywhere else.
The ring upgrades feel like a punishment with how expensive they are.
undone grotto
I would feel better about keeping the shop if the "tokens" were something else. Maybe instead of tokens we get idk, warped/primal energy/essence. This energy emanates from the rift or floor 61. The energy/essence attaches itself to you and leaves with you. The deeper players are, the more energy/essence attaches itself to players after completing floors. The deep floors are warped for a reason right?
This energy can be valuable to the smuggler because he can sell it to people to research it or maybe he has some other use for it or something, idk. Or maybe it's very important that this energy/essence returns to the rift or it could begin to warp Gielinor itself. Therefore, the smuggler trades you stuff for it so he can get rid of it and throw it back into the rift, etc.
There should still be tradeable drops from daemonheim imo. Daemonheim dung needs uniques that aren't buyable through this currency. It would be icing on the cake
polar bramble
what would be cool if all the necklaces and rings had upgrade forms like you start off with base forms then over time you can choose to upgrade them adding more effects and stats. highest tier forms stats on par with EOF and the best rings in game but still have different functions, a low tier, med tier and god tier
undone grotto
I would feel better about keeping the shop if the "tokens" were something else. ...
With this concept, imo it would make sense if mobs also dropped or released some of this energy, perhaps also by gathering resources. This would increase the amount of the currency obtained by players, further it would make killing/gathering resouces actually have a benefit. It could create a new strategy where clearing all mobs and gathering all resources within floors becomes the new meta for obtaining the currency. While clearing the floor asap can be the meta for xp.
This is a great idea imo, just pay me already jagex.
bronze siren
Perhaps not directly related to the reward store.
But it'd be nice if the (ultra) elite chest, you get for completing elite dungeon 1-3 in order could contain 1-2 elite dungeon lucky charms.
The elite dungeon teletabs also don't really serve a purpose since war's retreat exists.
Perhaps they can be converted into unlocking an elite dungeon chest (with teleports to each entrance) at war's retreat instead with a high upfront dg token and marks of war cost
This will be more of a new reward, but perhaps a most wanted (creatures of daemonheim) consumable wouldn't be out of place
thick smelt
this should read "unlock quick home teleports within daemonheim" to avoid confusion. I think it should also be priced a bit cheaper to allow players to pick it up sooner.
brittle raft
this should read "unlock quick home teleports within daemonheim" to avoid confus...
that wording is misleading yeah
polar bramble
yea whole shop needs reworked and better items new unlocks, more variety, unlocks for Necro, cheaper stuff, High tier rewards for late game players, just delete half the useless stuff.
wet knot
yea whole shop needs reworked and better items new unlocks, more variety, unlock...
shameless plug for my suggestions thread more or less about this: https://discord.com/channels/303835144073248770/1488563471061749887
steel basalt
shameless plug for my suggestions thread more or less about this: https://discor...
i wanna see the items in the shop upgradeable through tokens.
they may start as tier 30, but can be upgraded to tier 90
serene perch
Back when I originaly played Dungeoneering in its release, chaotic gear felt way too expensive. You need 2 million dungeoneering xp to get those 200k tokens, and thats is lvl 80 by itself. So you need to do not spend a single token while training a skill all the way to lvl 80 to only then get your reward.
Its just bad design.
And I agree with others that tieing tokens and xp is not a very good design.
Maybe as a bonus for doing aditional activity in dungeons, you get bonus tokens instead of bonus xp? This way, you could ether run the optimal route for fast xp or do longer dungeons for most tokens.
polar bramble
let me get a bad ass Necro 2H weapon with a solid effect, Design- skull on 1 end and scythe on other that's all black T 95 thanks Mods🙏
wet knot
let me get a bad ass Necro 2H weapon with a solid effect, Design- skull on 1 end...
t95 dungeoneering weapons should not be from deamonheim imo, BiS weapons should only be from high-end bosses that already require a sizable gear investment (which is why i dislike rasial/necromancy tasks)
covert quartz
wouldn't mind seeing t95s come as an RNG drop from some kind of roguelike dungeon concept
edgy vigil
No reason you couldn't have them be an upgradable thing from doing a hard DG boss tbf
wet knot
No reason you couldn't have them be an upgradable thing from doing a hard DG bos...
no because there's no prior gear investment
edgy vigil
Does there need to be if the challenge is of sufficient difficulty (and/or unlock requirement)?
You would still need the levels to make any gear required/potions etc. and the skill to overcome the actual combat challenge itself. See: gauntlet/cg from osrs as an example
wet knot
i think that some progression skips could be a part of the game with daemonheim but none as egregious as going from nothing to BiS
gauntlet still requires you to defeat some of the hardest quest bosses in the game and grinding it out is grueling, difficult and only gives the second best in slot for ranged and mh melee
id say the upper upper limit would be t90 and maybe t92
edgy vigil
Dungeonwork weapons, t85 with upgrades from Daemonheim themed boss drops to go to t92 :^)
wet knot
that would def be a better solution yeah
the design direction ive been going in for my thread is mainly trying to fill put akward points in progression (t60>t75 jump and t75>t85/90 jump) that also try and tutorialize things that come up in high tier pvm a lot
while also filling gear slots that are mostly secondary to still incentivize pvm outside of dungeoneering
and its something id like to see reflected either in daemonheim or other content
because if youre a ranger, trying to make the jump from armadyl boots to t80 or higher is choosing plague or cholera with either
glacors and rune drags (3 grandmaster quests, one 1/1240 and two 1/780 drops)
nex (1/384)
raksha (1/130 from a high-end boss)
vorkath and level 90 crafting (2-3 drops of 1/45)
wet knot
identifying pain points like this would be a critical part of making daemonheim rewards worth grinding for
junior quest
t95 dungeoneering weapons should not be from deamonheim imo, BiS weapons should ...
I don't think top gear needs to be from bosses. I actually like the idea of good gear being attainable for the average player rather than only being from the super hard hardcore bosses or billions of GP. It reduces the barrier of entry since new top tier content is made challenging for players with the multi-billion setups which makes it soooo intimidating for anyone without that. There's many bosses I'm too scared to try right now esp. since deaths are punishing.
Of course, if stuff is 'easy' to get, it needs to be balanced somehow so that those incredibly rare chase items from bosses are still valuable to strive for. Maybe have either weaker or no set effects compared to the boss-y alternatives but match them on stats. /shrug
It's also not unprecedented for non-boss stuff to be very good. For example, no one that I saw complained when some top-tier gear was added as thieving loot.
I've also played another MMO with essentially a catch up mechanic (the people who do the hardcore bossing essentially getting an 'early bird' bonus, then stuff comes out later that's on par which everyone can get - maybe with inferior fashionscape qualities or slightly weaker in some way). It makes getting to the point of being strong enough to try any content way less tedious.
Not saying that's better or RS should go down the same route - just mentioning 'cause that has been quite refreshing for me over "kill this hard boss 100s of times for a small chance at a shiny upgrade"
(this got way off topic from dungeoneering store stuff, I guess feedback is don't be afraid to give shiny stuff, even if it's just materials as part of a larger project or something) /shrug
wet knot
I don't think top gear needs to be from bosses. I actually like the idea of good...
ff14 is different in how fast BiS is cycled, i.e. every 2 patch cycles, and also how savage raiding is much much harder but conversly has guaranteed drop rates for gear, which is great there but not for runescape imo
i do agree with how good, if not insanely great gear should also be from non-top level pvm content, but for BiS its a different story imo, masterwork is a great catch-up system by using drops from previously high end bosses that have been powercrept with a sizable time investment in skilling and processing to create gear that still falls well below the current bis
slightly out of this threads scooe but i think making existing t90/t92 carry powerful passive effects/specs and then introducing slightly more casual (but not completely casual) ways to obtain less powerful, but still good gear slots in that tier range (such as daemonheim) would be a good compromise and also make gearing for high end pvm more appealing to both less confident mains and irons
shut forge
I think Jagex should rework Dungeoneering into a similar system of WoW Mythic+ dungeons. Where each floor you cannot use anything past the current tier. Ex: floor 1:1, 2:3, 3:5, 4:7. 5:9, 6:11 etc (how the floors unlock now). Meaning you could only use tier 1 novite until floor 6. Since gear inside scales to 99 with primals floors passed that would get extremely difficult and leave room to add new higher tiers of gear and be able to balance it. You would need to remove the prestige system and exp rates would be based around the highest floor you can complete and additional tokens would be based around total completion of the dungeon. The Dungeons would need to be VERY difficult and need a certain % completion to progress to the next floor. The Dungeons could have all enemies inside be the same difficulty as those in the main game. It would create a way for Jagex to balance every tier of gear exactly how they want it to interact with the game. It also confines all combat to extremely small areas which would allow for combat to refined even further.
I have written further explanations & marketing strategies around this if any J-Mods are interested. (They are written in raw notes, I would need to organize them).
covert quartz
i think that some progression skips could be a part of the game with daemonheim ...
yeah like I'm not necessarily talking progression skips but I think something which is just permanently v difficult because it's gear agnostic (but maybe has internal progresison with some kind of roguelike mechs) would be swell
keen vine
Does there need to be if the challenge is of sufficient difficulty (and/or unloc...
Yes. We have that problem already in osrs, bowfa. Having people skip most pvm via that is just not good design, and people absolutely get recommended/feel forced into it. Sure, it could be part of a weapon, but you do need outside gear investment in these things.
I know we already have these things, but they generally arnt great options, and were feeling it a lot with necro atm, which while ultimately a good thing bringing more people in to pvm, its a bit much as is.
wet knot
yeah like I'm not necessarily talking progression skips but I think something wh...
that brings in the issue of people that just want to max the skill at daemonheim and maybe arent great at pvm that get turned off from it
covert quartz
that brings in the issue of people that just want to max the skill at daemonheim...
yeah I'd advocate this as a fully distinct method to avoid excluding people
spiral kayak
New/Upgrade tier weapons would be nice in the shop.
spiral spindle
Would be awesome to have a shard of genesis-like item for chaotics that makes em go from 80 to 85, and if you use another one on it, it’ll upgrade to 90.
Can be a very rare drop/chase item when completing a floor, or a rare drop from killing the dungeon mobs to encourage killing the mobs instead of skipping mobs like how we currently do.
Will help dung’ers make some gp since Jagex says they want dungeoneering to be profitable with loot in their blog to encourage replayability.
Or can be in the dung shop which cost a lot of tokens.
And please, I beg, for Jagex to have those Frozen/Warped dye kits be either from the shop or rare loot drops in a dungeon. Since mxt got removed, there’s no way to obtain these kits anymore.
And trust me, these kits makes chaotics seeeeeexxxyyyy!
polar bramble
yea would be cool to see some T95 drops from some of the late game dung bosses that are extremely rare with some new bad ass effects, Also dropping 2H weapons for each style for us late game folks. i need a reason to come back to dung and making T95 weapons that only drop from dung bosses is a great way for high level players to stay engaged with the skill. Plus the weapons would be really hard to get so value will sty high
i especially want tome new Necro weapons everyone rocks the same Necro equipement and there is no diversity in the skill. all other styles have many different armors to choose from.
polar bramble
Would be awesome to have a shard of genesis-like item for chaotics that makes em...
good idea frfr or make it go to top T95 s start at 80 and max out at T95
keen vine
Giving near BiS tier weapons in dg.. smh. Guess we should start deleting the rest of the game to make way for people who like the skill, as it seems like they want it to replace pvm.
wet knot
yea would be cool to see some T95 drops from some of the late game dung bosses t...
as said, offering tier 95 equipment sith powerful effects is a very bad idea imo since it outcompetes the gwd3 weapons and enables a gigantic progression skip that encourages players to hard camp daemonheim until they have the top end gear from there, which either:
makes gearing trivialized
makes for an annoying rng grind akin to osrs' corrupted gauntlet
the issue with daemonheim is that it requires 0 prior gear investment compared to even some of the easier non-dungeoneering bosses
im all for pvm being more accessible but making gear of a caliber that is meant to be difficult to obtain and exclusive availible from daemonheim is not the way to go imo
"catch-up" gear should strive to get you ready for learning current content, not to eclipse the current top-end pvm content entirely
polar bramble
as said, offering tier 95 equipment sith powerful effects is a very bad idea imo...
I think personally it would be fine to add… there are like no good alternates to T95 Armor and gear so making new T95 will make it more diverse. I say add them! Respect your opinion but everyone’s got one😘
wet knot
I think personally it would be fine to add… there are like no good alternates to...
masterwork armor is already the catch-up gear for armor slots tho?
it has t100 stats, is from easier content, and has a cool and fitting passive so the semi-casual high-end armor reward space is already filled
keen vine
I think personally it would be fine to add… there are like no good alternates to...
Why do there need to be non pvm alternatives to pvm BiS? If we need variation, it needs to come from pvm bossing only. If you want an easy path there, play a main and buy gear.
covert quartz
I wouldn't necessarily say pvm only - I really like cross-pollination of game systems - but I do think it needs to largely filter by difficulty
wet knot
im also alright with largely secondary slots being from slightly easier sources e.g. gloves, rings, boots, pocket slots etc. being from slightly easier/non-pvm content
but weapons and main armor slots should be from high-end combat or in the same camp as like masterwork armor
steel basalt
ye no. let's stop gatekeeping items behind rarity.
make the upgrade catalysts rarer (like genesis shard), but not the base items
if i need to make my current maul of rammernaut from t92 to t100, i can break down parts of it, or have it drop something extra that upgrades it by 1 tier for every use of it
robust hearth
just delete dungeoneering lmaoooooo
wet knot
ye no. let's stop gatekeeping items behind rarity.
make the upgrade catalysts r...
t92 should be the sharded tier imo, t100 with a dps passive/spec would eclipse content that justify their difficulty with their rewards (zuk, amascut, zamorak, kerapac etc.) in favour of not having to care about your gear prereqs at all since its daemonheim content
t100 with a survivability focused effect infringes on masterwork crafting and the reward space of the few latest years of skilling updates
i do not see how having the most powerful items in the game require prior investment and skill is gatekeeping
espicially when the current high end bossing is some of the most fair reward systems the game has had in its 25 year history
one thing i do agree with is that the difference between the t90/92 stat sticks and the gameplay-defining t95 is too wide a gap and bridging it with (for example) daemonheim (or buffing the current t92) would be a massive boon for pvm
steel basalt
t92 should be the sharded tier imo, t100 with a dps passive/spec would eclipse c...
am okay with whatever tier the base could be. t85, t90, whatever.
the idea is that your gear should be able to grow with you to become a choice of use.
especially since we know effects do not carry over.
wet knot
yea thats a very great idea
hardy gyro
If tokens are going to be removed from EDs then maybe mini-bosses could get a guaranteed roll on the lucky charm table? Or alternatively charms could be removed entirely (existing ones refunded for tokens) and you always get a chance to roll on the table on every monster kill.
jaunty token
Thanks, these are 3 in particular that we'll be looking to address
Perhaps also reduce the number of Slayer points needed to add them to the toolbelt?
open torrent
Not sure if someone mentioned this yet, but I think it could be nice if we could buy the warped tokens? https://runescape.wiki/w/Warped_Daemonheim_Armour 🙂
meager elk
I do second the idea of minibosses in Elite Dungeons getting rolls on the lucky charm table, to give a reason to seek them out each run. Though would be wary about people restarting dungeons for the starting room minibosses the way token farming works in that case, in particular ED4. Maybe reduce the chance of rolling said table if the main boss has not been defeated in between repeat miniboss kills?
bronze siren
Miniboss can add a lucky charm roll to the boss' loot for that section
meager elk
Thats a pretty elegant solution honestly
Damn that would be a lot of lucky charm rolls at Zamorak though
sly radish
the penalty in it taking more time should be enough really
but you see the current meta in Dungeoneering it doesnt take more time to die; It takes less.
more time would be sorting out arrangements to aquire food, prep it and then preserve life.
Where as the meta is drop personal gatestones, die; and re-teleport back to keep rushing regardless of death.
solemn crater
The meta is just not dying 🤷♂️
sly radish
quiet honestly the meta has been to have a Suicide leech within the team for years.
litterly the term sl in dungeoneering world.
that meta has exsisted from 2010 -> 2016 then after 2016 was when majority of 'Hosts' have already reached their goals and primarily did it for the money because players rather not learn to understand the skill, breaking the new meta into Hosts just using the gatestone method since realistically the penalty has never punished us personally since we were only there for the gp aspect; not the XP or Tokens.
where I see the penalty being focused; Its odd because on this page it doesn't bring up any of the core issues of dungeoneering that makes majority of players dislike the skill to begin with.
edgy vigil
This thread is about the rewards, the rest of the stuff was covered in one of the other threads and is being worked on with the dg refresh
keen vine
but you see the current meta in Dungeoneering it doesnt take more time to die; I...
then fundamental changes need to happen to make sure that dying is that penalty, not abusing it for an easy teleport. or not, because that seems super niche anyways since dying intentionally actually takes time.
polar bramble
I want high level rewards. Otherwise why is any maxed players or high level players with maxed stats wasting their time coming back for trash rewards that don’t give meaningful upgrades to current stuff. I’m maxed on Dung have no need to come back unless rewards are worth it. Hoping for some high level stuff. Maybe some Necro upgrades anything frfr Make Dung great again!
keen vine
You can have good and relevant rewards without devaluing other content, though. But really, once you're max there shouldnt need to be a reason to return outside of enjoying the content. You should have everything long before then.
junior quest
How do people feel about the dungeoneering reward shop selling Stalker/Kal'gerion/Edimmu most wanted cards, with the same or similar effect as the Rush of Blood ones?
Kind of like how there are lucky charms for elite dungeons to help with those boss logs, it could be a means to help with filling out the slayer drop log or to make a bit of extra GP taking them down.
sly radish
then fundamental changes need to happen to make sure that dying is that penalty,...
dying intentionally doesn't take time.
the meta is that you rush and push, not with the intention to die; but simply as soon as your about to die you gatestone, re-teleport and continue with full health.
preventing this meta will be essentially impossible since you can easily tell when your about to die; and why bother spending the extra 2-5 minutes making or collecting food when you can take 2-3 seconds to teleport instead upon death.
because quick teleports can be unlocked; additionally you can obtain 2 Private Gatestones per player + the Group Gatestone.
junior quest
<:Thisguy:1157816930065993738> https://discord.com/channels/303835144073248770/...
I missed that earlier, a good idea I think esp. with how ridiculously rare some of the drops are 
steel basalt
How do people feel about the dungeoneering reward shop selling Stalker/Kal'gerio...
i can see this being a tradeable item for those who want the extra luck
also gives those with a lot of tokens to be monetized
keen vine
dying intentionally doesn't take time.
the meta is that you rush and push, not ...
But in this case, whats the difference if you doe instead of gatestone? Sounds like it's an animation of dying, or the rng of actually going that bit further to take that hit. Like, yeah, its probably not that much slower, but it seems whatever really. Not a big difference for those at the top, but it'd make a huge difference for everyone else.
last owl
Having dungeoneering rewards needed later in a game is good way to keep them (like chaotic essence, chaotic remnants or permanent buffs). But many items like nature, law staff, tome of frost, gravite weapons and similar are quickly forgotten because they don't have any practical use or are needed later in the game.
It's true that not everything can be revived due to game evolving and gear being obtained easier (like smithing, fletching and crafting being more balanced now for gear progression) but certain items could be given new value.
Example:
-enchantments: gloves, weapons & rings were given a bit of extra passive which isn't easy to obtain but proves really good on long run + uses some non used items as materials.
-upgrading/creating gear: the leng swords are good example how certain items could be used in recipes for newer gear.
-quest rewards/update additions: Certain items could be given like a new buff/effect or something. Example: tome of frost gave unlimited water runes and could be given a buff with the sentissten city and new ancient magic (mostly incite fear which is ice spell + saves water runes usage) but with current set items it would be hard place to use it because we would lose the wand+orb set buff. Instead it could be implemented some other way like pocket slot/ammo slot or upgraded to like t90 so it wouldn't be BiS but it would be optional gear for players after unlocking incite fear.
mortal jay
Many items and weapons from dungeoneering are niche.
Shieldbow sight- useless
Nature staff- useless
Mercanary's gloves- useless
Chaotic maul- useless
Antipoison totem- useless since there are monsters that ignore the effect intended
This is just first few I could point out
snow ermine
Do note that last one is being reworked with the poison aura, so it wont be useless.
wet knot
Many items and weapons from dungeoneering are niche.
Shieldbow sight- useless
N...
https://discord.com/channels/303835144073248770/1488563471061749887 at least for 3 of those
sly radish
Do note that last one is being reworked with the poison aura, so it wont be usel...
tbh; even with the Poison Aura being worked into it; its still for the most part pretty useless, as the slot it takes up and operates vs what other options could virtually be there instead.
snow ermine
I mean I dont know what youre expecting, Poison Aura was situational in of itself. If you wanted to, you could completely substitute it for antipoison+ or in the case of Zemourgal and Friends, just not standing in the poison.
The only way people would be tempted to take it would be if it was so OP itd be the go to choice for everyone, or if it was situationally helpful. I feel making it the most OP thing in existance would be defeating the purpose
keen vine
Yeah, bosses and enemies ignoring it is mostly so they can use the damage type to be interesting. If you want it to globally remove all poison damage, the solution would be that all of those would just change damage types and be the same regardless.
junior quest
My main use for the antipoison totem has been pyramid plunder - but I think the failure rate of urns has dropped enough that even there it's not useful.
bronze siren
Basically it will be a decent alternative to venomblood
undone grotto
What if u could just charge the antipoison totem with antipoison pots and having it in your inv or wearing it could negate all poison damage? Or heck maybe even make poison damage heal you a bit to make it more unique
bronze siren
they are basically doing that...
undone grotto
they are basically doing that...
Making it so you can charge it with antipoison pots, heal you, or both?
bronze siren
using it in combination with antipoison pots will work like poison purge (no actual details / numbers yet)
undone grotto
hmmm... just loading it up or charging it with antipoisons would save spaces, i hope they do that. It Make the totem much more valuable. Interestingly enough, venomblood has word blood on it. You'd think that be what would heal you
keen vine
There has to be some opportunity cost to using things that give a direct advantage in combat. Cant just make everything passive. If you can passively immune poison without an associated inventory cost, whats the point of poison?
snow ermine
Why dont we have an invention expansion where you can add perks to gear in Daemonheim, but ofc, sicne you cant take it out, you can do crazy stuff with it? For eg moren 4 perks, unique perks only found in Daemonheim etc. You could juice rates since its not helpful outside of dungeon for rare perks, essentially turning Daemonheim into a perk playground.
And for unique perks only found from stuff there, maybe an entry to sell said components that give it in the Refresh store? Thatd definitely give some replay value and incentive to go there, even for 120ers.
keen vine
There would only be point to that if the content had any combat difficulty, but at this point, it doesnt. It doesnt provide a challenge worth putting perks in for
snow ermine
Not everyone wants to be challenged by content. Some just wanna play with the fun things :/ This could legitimately be a way to get people back into the Demon Halls.\
junior quest
Not everyone wants to be challenged by content. Some just wanna play with the f...
Completely agree with this. I like dungeoneering because it's quite casual. I wouldn't engage with it anywhere near as much if it was dark souls levels of hard. Main reason I haven't tried the big bosses, getting killed over and over again isn't fun for me
keen vine
Sure, but thats why id only suggest optional difficulty in a rework anyways. But that doesnt change the fact that content thats already easy doesnt need extra powerful things slapped on top to make it easier again. What point would perks serve?
snow ermine
None of this is going to pass in the Dungeoneering remake btw. It was stated that Invention or big changes like new content wasnt going to get a proper pass through this time, long as you know this. This is just a modernization update.
That said, to answer your question, sometimes it is just fun to be OP. Especially in a closed space where the market wont actually be affected much. Thats why Im suggesting the perk juicing while in there. From what Ive seen of you in multiple threads, that probably doesnt appeal.
I mean, your optional difficulty does exist. Its called Hard Mode floors. Those definitely kept me on my toes.
keen vine
Im all for making things interesting, even if that leads to players being stronger in a mode like this, but invention perks only really add flat damage. Its like, theres so many things id add before them, if the goal was to make it nore fun, like special attacks and passives.
And hard mode floors dont exactly look difficult, interesting or rewarding, so they may as well not exist for people that would like actually engaging content. Slapping in a few more garbage monsters might only be a challenge for revo players, use defensives properly and they are still pretty trivial.
fierce topaz
I would have loved it if the classic primal armor that I spent so much time keepsaking from high level dungeoneering grinds didn't get updated to the new look of the primal only for a "Classic Primal" cosmetic to go up for sale tbh.
junior quest
Honestly getting all flavours of the daem gear options would be cool. Walking around the world as a celestial mage or in shiny Zephryium or something. Either as items (maybe that can sold and traded) that can be used in the PoH rework furniture log or something as additional armour stand options or in fancy dress box items, or as cosmetics that can be accessed anywhere from the wardrobe interface (that'd be my preference).
If rare chase items are wanted, what about weird and interesting combos like... novite- or zephrium-trimmed primal, etc
visual crag
maybe more equipment you could buy with tokens that are properly priced to the dungeoneering level and are tiered similar to the recommended CB levels. Make them weaker than their counterparts made through skilling or mobs outside of dungeoneering. It'd give people more variety on how they can gear up in the early to mid game, especially ironmen where we have a lot of weird dry spots for equipment
obviously degradeable, as to create a token sink and make the degrading of them not as generous as some other degrading items. IMO, it would incentivize people to go back to grind more tokens to replace degraded leveling gear if that's the path they choose
I think the game would just benefit from more choices in mid game for gearing up combat skills.
(you could also make the equipment be repairable with tokens, so you don't have to buy multiples and maybe end up with random extra pieces at 0.5% or whatever)
keen vine
obviously degradeable, as to create a token sink and make the degrading of them ...
Imagine wanting to create a token sink. We have that problem in arch, and its just a drag on the entire skill.
visual crag
¯_(ツ)_/¯ if more people do thing, and the prices lower for rewards, more tokens get used = token sink
keen vine
but why? the only reasons you'd add a sink is because you're desperate to add profit to it, which is a huge problem with arch. otherwise you're trying to.. make people farm the content more for upkeep? which is... a problem with arch that people hate. or.. because you think people have too many tokens, and those people likely dont need that gear, as they can probably afford BiS.
desert dragon
The permanent upgrades, particularly the bonecrusher, the charming imp and the (...
now they are just going to nerf farming cerberus and not address anything else.
visual crag
but why? the only reasons you'd add a sink is because you're desperate to add pr...
I'm not going to debate. I put my opinion. I do not have time.
junior quest
I don't think currencies need to be sunk honestly. I'd rather grind out as much as I need, and have that be it. ^^ #1487569832864911440 has unanimous support (thumbs-up emojis) for having things be non-degradable and I have a preference for that too. Spending a lot on something, and then having to spend even more to actually use it feels so bad.
keen vine
We have enough upkeep with invention anyways. If we need more gear upkeep, it should stick to being balanced there, and only there.
Not to mention anything thats added that isnt overpowered (and absolutely nothing there should be) will be DOA if it has upkeep anyways
edgy vigil
Upkeep is a non issue unless it's either overtuned or just painful to do due to the content being bad
keen vine
upkeep wouldnt be a non issue if it made you continuously go back to dungeoneering post-120
edgy vigil
You go back to divination continuously post 120, or herb, or cooking/fishing
keen vine
sure, but all of those currently have a core reason for that. gathering, or crafting something.
not every skill needs a reason to require you to do it infinitely, or have bad mechanics slapped in just so some people can profit off of it (you could instead just put in something non intrusive)
what do you currently do dungeoneering for? kind of like slayer, you do it for account unlocks and new areas. thats enough.
junior quest
I do it for the fun of the activity too, not just rewards - but if it's "I need to do this or my gear stays broken" it swaps from being a choice to a chore and that feels way worse even if it's doing the same thing.
I feel that with invention. "Out of charges? Time to div x.x" "Out of X component? Time to figure out what disassembles into that, and then what drops what I need etc"
And smithing. "My masterwork is broken? Time to mine / smith for way too long x.x"
Necromancy I suspect is the same too. "I wanna fight something but ran out of ectoplasm? Urgh ritual time". I'm sure it's the same for the necromancy runes and impure essense. Granted, I've only made enough for a quest + a couple extra of each and not used any for combat yet so it might be fine.
I don't really have the problem with runes and magic thankfully, but have heard the upkeep for ranged is dreadful as well.
This is way off topic - but the TL;DR is upkeep chores ruin the fun oftentimes.
steel basalt
I do it for the fun of the activity too, not just rewards - but if it's "I need ...
any menial tasks that can essentially be botted, in my opinion, should be reduced.
literally a manufacturing plant if we have to live through the long grind of manufacturing items that bring no meaning.
keen vine
its fine in a lot of cases, just not when its mandatory upkeep. it is part of raising levels in a lot of cases
covert quartz
generally I think the model for consumables should be having both afk and active methods which reward them, with the active method targeted around 4-10x the rate of acquisition of those consumables
keen vine
imo its probably around 1/3rd to 1/4 speed for afk, but also remove the exp or remove the gp reward (generally for methods, obviously we're taking the gp reward producing here)
edgy vigil
any menial tasks that can essentially be botted, in my opinion, should be reduce...
honestly at that point you're saying "Reduce the runescape of runescape"
obsidian moth
im quite late to this but the biggest draw to the DG shop was always the chaotics. However the 80 DG & 200k token requirement sort of make them a no-go in terms of gear progression, because the time investment is just not worth the reward when better options exist elsewhere in the game
I do also think that even if the costs were lowered and the dg requirement was removed, it is still really hard to justify purchasing them
I think id actually prefer
This sits more in line with modern gear progression and makes them worthwhile in a world where they compete with so many other options.
I also think we need more chaotic variants IE bows, Wand/Orb, Necro Guard/Lantern etc
Theres also a world where chaotics could be rewards you earn inside dungeons as loot, as oppose to purchased shop items
steel basalt
i don't see any usefulness for chaotics, given that craftable gear of equivalent level is much easier to access.
why go through the grind of tokens for t80, when i can smith it within an hour? or even better, buy it for cheap?
maybe if i was purely a combat player, where i don't level up my gathering and artisan skills, and i don't have the resources to afford purchasing from market, then sure, dungeoneering shop with tier appropriate gear would 100% be useful for me
keen vine
Crafted gear isnt augmentable.
mental moat
I haven't used the shop too often, but the fact that there are two shops really confuses me (I just learned about it today). Combining the two shops would be nice.
obsidian crypt
with the change to dunge doors not needing x level and changing to a chance to fail, Please make it so we dont fail way to often dont turn it into it being frustrating, maybe like a 1 in 3 chance to fail
wet knot
Crafted gear isnt augmentable.
tuned banite is tho, and getting 2 abyssal whips/2 corrupted revenant weapons/2 draconic visages isnt that much of an ask, even on iron
keen vine
you can technically correct me with weird monster grind craftables if you like, but then technically masterwork goes in there too. but i feel like everyone knows what im talking about.
coarse kraken
i thought the remaster was scheduled for early May? right after dxp then? thought it would be before but looking forward to it 👀
edgy vigil
Tbh would be understandable to want it coming after DXP so you get a better idea of how people enjoy it, rather than how people enjoy it with insane EXP Rates
spiral spindle
Necro gear is craftable and augmentable too. So not just banite gear.
chilly tinsel
Banite is lvl 80 which is comparable to chaotic too
keen vine
necro requires boss drops, so again, not really the same thing.
its also just kind of hard to make chaotic from dungeoneering viable without it being handed out, or devaluing boss drops too much. the second you'd do it, its trivial enough that other stuff is even more useless or op enough that you tend to want to grind that instead anyways.
since dungeoneering levels are required.. technically them being accessible makes them 0 time
bronze siren
Chaotic spike approach was solid.
A chaotic whip upgrade would be neat actually
chilly tinsel
Use chaotic essence to craft t92 zamorak godsword with better special attack
undone grotto
Personally, I'd love to see Elder Dragon armor and weapons that require like 110 or 120 stats to wear/wield.
bronze siren
But do that execute low hp enemies with a blast of blue dragonfire?
spiral spindle
necro requires boss drops, so again, not really the same thing.
its also just ki...
Necro Weapons do not require any boss drops…
keen vine
They require boss kills to unlock, same shit really. You sure are desperately trying to be correct.
edgy vigil
That's a very different thing to requiring boss drops though.
keen vine
i dont think it is, its definitely easier, but you still require pvm to get it. but theres always been the argument that necro gear in general is too easy to get, so even so, its not a particularly good argument.
spiral spindle
Barrows and gwd1 to get necro t80 weapons. Which is piss easy. Dung also requires boss kills each dungeon, which is just easy as well.
Smithing makes banite too easy and you can buy them off the ge for cheap without any Boss kills.
So chaotics need some kind of appeal since who in their right mind will want to spend train dung to 80, while spending a hefty 200k tokens just to get a worse version of a melee or a necro weapon when jagex adds the necro variant from the update.
Banite is strong against their monster type and the necro weapon has a spec. Chaotics are just goofy worse versions in every way.
Royal crossbow is like 300k gp and quick to make too with +2 attack range over the inferior chaotic crossbows. Hell, even the limitless air staff is 2m, t82, and have unlimited air runes.
keen vine
it might be easy, but arguably t85 is piss easy too. the difference is that you're actively participating in the content, which is important. if the content isnt 'that' boss-like, thats an arguement to improve that content, not skip it.
Banite may as well not exist, i doubt many people use it (theres little reason to if you're a main, and other drops are more accessible for irons), but also requires drops of some kind.
the only real issue with good accessible chaotics though is when it becomes so accessible that you may as well not pvm, which is probably a fairly fine line. right now, they arnt useful at all, but it depends on how much closer to being useful they are. pretty quickly you get something that's much faster than getting drops, and a shop item should never be quicker (as its garenteed rather than rng).
spiral spindle
The artisans skills are so accessible and requires no pvm drops and doesn’t have to be actively engaged in because smithing is afk and doing some quick necro rituals for ensoul bars is so afk.
Why should dungeoneering which is one of the most active skills be inferior to afk smithing or afk rituals or even worse, when a player can just buy the banite for dirt cheap in ge without any effort or engagement?
Nobody asking for dung to give t100 weapons, just give it a very rare drop of a shard of genesis for a chaotic version that bumps it up to like 85, then a 2nd one for 90. A very rare drop is like a boss drop but dungeoneering style, or can be a super high token price, either works, or give chaotics some uniqueness with a passive/spec to make em stand out and worth it in comparison to the easy accessible artisan weapons that are dirt cheap. Just give it something so dung can actually be more attractive to players..
Jagex’s first ever Remastered update needs to be hype especially on a skill like dungeoneering where players hate to engage with the skill so much, they rather afk it in the dung hole on summer. Especially also because Jagex is nerfing ways to get tokens and is making the dung monsters and bosses harder.
So the very first ever Remaster content is just nerfs to tokens and making the bosses harder with no hype of the iconic choatic weapons?
Just no, that’s just like if Jagex did a whole update on Remastering Corp Beast or GWD1 and it was nerfs and making the boss harder with no improvement of rewards.
keen vine
The artisans skills are so accessible and requires no pvm drops and doesn’t have...
i wouldnt call getting 80 smithing accessible over getting t85s. like yeah, kind of? but not really. t85 drops are around a 10h camp max (but more like 2-5) after getting ok combat.
sure, its 'easier' but its a lot more work. a lot more work is fine, which is why its sort of ok.
but what we're talking about here is making chaotics accessible. if its super accessible, its easier to get reliably than pvm drops, and thats bad. just being a grind thats around as long as those skills? sure, thats fine.
spiral spindle
You don’t need 80 smithing, buy in ge. Very accessible
keen vine
sure, but if we're talking about ge, boss drops can be bought from there too, easily, since we have insane moneymakers.
you could easily get t90s in a few hours if you wanted (and thats with low req moneymakers)
spiral spindle
You said t85s is 2-5 hours. Getting 80 dung and 200k tokens is a lot more work and longer than that. Tbh t85s is not that much work tbh and those t85s have t90 accuracy which accuracy is more valuable at those levels too
keen vine
sure. but that doesnt include learning the fight, getting the stats, getting the gear and the fact that its rng.
spiral spindle
Who’s gonna dung if every path is better than it? No wonder it is not appealing.
keen vine
but yeah, im not saying chaotics shouldnt be made easier at all, not sure where you got that from. im saying that theres a limit to how accessible they can be made, and that they shouldnt have advantages over same tier boss drops.
it needs to be in a spot thats balanced where the people that enjoy that content might go there instead, but people dont feel like they need to go there.
spiral spindle
And you jumped to 85s when I was comparing chaotics to the other 80 alternatives.
Banite easier, cheaper, no reqs if buying, afk, plus effects on certain monsters.
Necro weapon easier, cheaper, afk rituals, plus a powerful useful spec.
Range, Royal crossbow, 300k gp, easy to make, +2 attack range than chaotic crossbows.
Chaotics need something..
keen vine
yeah, t80 in general is just a weird spot. most t80 is nex, but t85 is easier and quicker to get, thats all.
spiral spindle
Definitely not just nex, literally named 3 combat styles 80 weapons that isn’t nex included.
keen vine
banite shouldnt really even be talked about. its not particularly relevant i dont think?
gathering royal is probably comparable to t85s for sure, but crossbows are trash. necro is easier for sure, but thats heavily critisized.
spiral spindle
Banite is relevant, it’s a cheap, easy, accessible t80 augmentable weapon with powerful effects on monsters that it is strong against.
Royal crossbow is easy, 1/12 drop chance, a min per kill.
Plus you get loot too, dung gives 0 loot
keen vine
but we're talking about game progression, yes?
when you include the ge, that warps the entire idea around drops that have been grinded to obscurity 10 years ago.
gotta think closer to ironmanning these things, not that everyone should iron, but because for people not just grinding cash and buying, that gives a much better experience.
spiral spindle
Whether an iron or main, chaotics is worse in every way in time, accessibility, and cost.
keen vine
absolutely. which is why i said im not opposed to making it more accessible. remember back when i said theres just a limit to that? and that limit probably isnt a lot more than it is now.
while ge exists, you'll never buy chaotics unless they are tradable anyways
spiral spindle
Which is why it should be better, untradables need to be more worth it than tradables usually.
Even if it was tradeable, it requires 80 dung to wield, banite doesn’t require 80 smithing to wield.
keen vine
sure, but as i was saying, it warps the ironman methods of playing if its too easy, which is the problem..
spiral spindle
So chaotics suck in every way no matter what so far
keen vine
which is why there needs to be a balance thats not making it super easy, like others were suggesting, but easier than it is now.
spiral spindle
It can easily be fixed with like a passive/spec, some kind of shard of genesis that’s rare or costs like a crap ton of tokens, or just a buff than the traditional 80 variants of like having t85 accuracy.
keen vine
but thats making it better than t85s, which is bad.
spiral spindle
No it’s not, t85s got t90 accuracy and accuracy goes exponential
Not to mention t85 lance has more range than a chaotic maul
And if Jagex does the upgrades as a very rare boss drops at the end of a dungeon, then it has to be worth it too. Or a 2-5m token cost upgrade, then it better be worth it as well.
keen vine
sure, but passives are almost universally better than stats. im sure t80s with even ok passives would be outperforming t90s without
spiral spindle
False, 2458 accuracy vs 1924 makes 90 accuracy 1.28x stronger. No passive that isn't a legendary weapon gives that much of a boost.
Even Dragon banite swords on the specific monsters gives 25% more damage
keen vine
assuming you dont already meet accuracy cap, which you almost always do (unless doing lategame, in which you'd have better weapons)
spiral spindle
players with 80 stats rarely ever meets the accuracy cap, not even close
keen vine
but people with 80 stats arnt usually the target audience for these weapons. you generally get them later in progression unless we're assuming they buy them off the ge, which at that point they can just max accuracy with all the other stuff we can buy as well. which probably maxes accuracy.
spiral spindle
chaotics are literally the target audience for players at 80 stats
keen vine
if we're at the point where downgrading from a t90 to a t80 that has a passive is ever a good idea, someone has messed up.
and no, they are not. at 80 dung requirement, you will always have higher combat stats than 80 unless trying specifically to not do that
spiral spindle
if it wasn't, there'd be different chaotic tiers like how artisan skills gives tiers from 1-100
keen vine
they were made lv 80, because at that time, 80 was around the best gear in the game.
spiral spindle
noone will ever downgrade to t90 to t80 becuase no passive is ever that strong
that's like saying people are using Attune Crystal weapons instead of t90s for it's passive...
keen vine
that just tells me you've never used lategame gear with good passives on them, or done any real dps calculations.
spiral spindle
keen vine
legendary weapon? lol
spiral spindle
that's what jagex calls t95s
keen vine
-shrugs- wouldnt trust jagex on calculating damage. the boosts are definitely more than 10 tiers of gear damage.
but again, that just tells me you havent used them or done any of the math, you're just relying on that statement, which is flat out wrong.
spiral spindle
Read what I said earlier, no passive has ever given a 1.28% boost that isn't a Legendary weapon (aka t95's)
keen vine
the only gear that has meaningful passives are t95s.
spiral spindle
yeah so a decent passive to chaotics would be good, no1 is saying to give it bow of the last guardian passive to chaotics lol
keen vine
either way, giving them a passive would indeed make them better than all pvm alternatives, and if its at all interesting, better than probably t90s without. that point still stands.
but idk what im even doing, you've shown you dont really know much about later gear, you just want this better by any means.
spiral spindle
T90s will always be better, tell me who ever used an Attuned crystal weapon for it's passive over a t90 weapon? The answer is nobody
you've shown you don't know much about passives in general and shown you don't want dungeoneering to be hype
keen vine
The problem there is, crystal attuned is just flat damage, it may as well be slapped on stats. If thats the passive it gets, it may as well not exist. People would only use higher stats. So yeah, if were asking for badly designed flat damage thats small, sure, it can have it. But i kinda expect more at this point.
If its modifying gameplay, like we get these days, the passives that are actually worth having, its likely by default going to be more damage and used universally over alternatives.
But yeah, i guess it can have a boring barely an increase passive people will mostly ignore, and people will ignore it like crystal attuned.
spiral spindle
Depends on what method Jagex does the upgrade. If it's just by default, then an attune crsytal passive, if it's by a hefty 2-5m token cost or a super rare chase drop from completing floors from warped floors (95+ dung and up) or from like hardmode dung, then it can have a non boring passive that's meaningful.
keen vine
and then you have a more annoying to get version of a weapon people already dont use
spiral spindle
not if they do the shard of genesis method
keen vine
more annoying to get version
spiral spindle
depends on ther person, annoying is subjective
Agility use to be annoying af, but when there's chase drops and rewards, that annoyance is highly lessened, it becomes from boring to exciting or at least less boring.
polar bramble
when is this update?
fallen sand
Probably the 11th since it was last said to be early May, double exp runs until the 11th, and the avatar beta will be the headliner for the 5th
polar bramble
Okay cool! Looking forward to all the improvements hopefully it will make people go back
dreamy plaza
The ED shop costs are waaaaaay too high, please address them if youre going to tweak the alternative token sources.
elfin path
👆 this exactly!
My level is currently in the early 60s, and I've only earned about 24k tokens overall since level 1. At the Reward Shop price points, I'll be surprised if I can make more than a single other significant purchase before level 80. Given the relative importance of certain items/perks — especially for F2P players, whose access to some of the game's most common buffs is limited — this can prove especially painful.
For instance, before I became a member, a couple of months ago, I was forced to choose between the Efficiency and Dexterity scrolls, both of which offer significant perks for mid-late game skilling.
Add to that the numerous permanent pieces of jewelry and gravite weaponry, and it becomes obvious that the prices for most are far too high for how long it takes to accrue Tokens.
thorny belfry
Would be nice to make it more clear the spirit cape provides a permanent effect. I dont think many low to mid level players are aware.
dreamy plaza
Would be nice to make it more clear the spirit cape provides a permanent effect....
Wait what?
hardy gyro
Wait what?
It makes familar scrolls cost less familiar points to cast allowing the special move to be spammed more.
dreamy plaza
Damn I need to go buy that I had no idea 🤣
Anything else like that?
hardy gyro
It's an incredibly minor benefit but it is there
Ring of Vigor passive post-Extinction is very powerful.
dreamy plaza
Yeah I have that one
hardy gyro
do you have all the dungeoneering scrolls?
dreamy plaza
Yep, except the one that gives 25% gathering xp
hardy gyro
that's about it for "permanent passives" then
if you're farming elite dungeons for GP I'd get the 750k chest upgrade in elite dungeon shop, but it's not useful in the rest of the game.
dreamy plaza
Yeah, 750k is just a Lotz working towards it tho
edgy vigil
Tbh turn the spirit cape into a scroll and note that it also gives you a cosmetic override would be the 'easiest' way to resolve that
boreal hornet
@sand fossil For God Sake hear me out in regards to this topic... Back in the day we had to use fire staffs as a decent magic weapon until it wasn't. Im a 80% F2P and rest P2P but nevertheless I shouldn't have to go through the challenging skill of Dungeoneering to such an extreme extent just for me to unlock nat staff, zeal ammy and gravites. They should be at a certain price where I can get them easily with Complexity level : 4 dungeoneering floors. Like right now, im a returning player and free leech is dead so i have to not only make a ton of money in time to get a bond, but now i have to get freaking level 77 Archaeology to do some dragon kin V artefacts to get dung tokens later. And before I even do anything, since Free leech Friends chat is dead, I have to hop worlds and see if anyone is in Daemonheim to help out a bit and get attitudes from them. Also, before anyone tells me ohh Elite Dungeons or sinkholes.. No I don't want to do those.. and im like combat 50 something..
Unforunately I cant remember my other accounts login info where I was fortunate enough to get a ton of Dg tokens from like promotions, and other stuff, but now i've been struggling a lot
stuck crown
I don't think you need to change anything in the normal store, but the ed store could get it's costs reduced. The biggest thing is that you need to massively boost the normal token gain 5x it if needed. This will solve the normal store item cost and also means you can keep the ed methods since they will be inferior
solemn crater
The thing is if they simply increase token gains then you'll be able to buy stupid amounts of xp with them aswell which doesn't feel right
spark wing
Which is easily solved by increasing the cost of XP though. it is 1:1 right now, could be 1:10 (or 10:1, not sure the right form tbh), or in accordance with Demoli's suggestion, 1:5 (5:1?) to retain the exact same ratio as currently
solemn crater
Yeah but why boost tokens obtained instead and xp cost instead of just lowering the other things instead
random dawn
feels like the costs are balanced more for if someone saved up exclusively to get that one thing as soon as they hit the level for it, and bought absolutely nothing else..... at the old reward rate. and sure, you could use tokens to skip ahead, but you'd lose out on the token gains from grinding there, putting you at an even bigger net loss. maybe check the cost to level balance on all the stuff, see if a casual player might reasonably have enough tokens for most of the things that their level could get?
undone grotto
delete tokens tbh. At least change them to warped anima or warped essence or something else
keen vine
feels like the costs are balanced more for if someone saved up exclusively to ge...
more lack of balance. iirc most of the stuff wasnt there on release, it was just slapped on constantly.
bronze siren
delete tokens tbh. At least change them to warped anima or warped essence or som...
the fremennik don't deal with magical goo
undone grotto
the fremennik don't deal with magical goo
If lore is important I suppose best for them to be removed then.
Tokens and a shop for the vast majority of rewards should have no place on a skill. It's one of the biggest reasons people hate dungeoneering.
Any who, who says it be magical? It could be energy or something. Maybe they want it cause someome else wants it and they're the middle man.
Or
Maybe the warped essense attaches itself to players as they go down there. Whether the Fremnik deal with magic goop is irrelevant tbh. Something down there is changing or warping the floors. Maybe they want the warped essense so they can get rid of it otherwise it may start warping gielinor itself. So its not about dealing with its more aboit convicing you to hand it over so they can properly return it or dispose of it.
Maybe their hate/fear of it is why they want it, so they can get rid of it and save Gielinor.
keen vine
I dont think people hate dung because of the store. Its because of the gameplay. Some love it, but a large amount hate it. I dont hear 'damn, it sucks that rewards come from a store'. Its having to get the things thats bad.
Wouldn't matter if they dropped from dg itself, you'd still have to get em and raise it for the requirements.
undone grotto
I mean players are big spectrum. I have known lot of people since its beginning that don't like it because it feels like a mini game, because it basically is. Notably daemonheim dungeoneering. A big part to it feeling like a mini game is that you collect tokens and use them to buy items from a shop.
I don't mind it, I'm 200m all, but I can see the issue and do agree something should be done to address this.
bronze siren
the main reason it felt like a minigame, was that it basically was a separate game from the rest of runescape.
Them not adding other locations that function like Daemonheim, didn't help in that aspect.
That would've made it feel like it was more integrated with the world, like the various resource dungeons.
undone grotto
the main reason it felt like a minigame, was that it basically was a separate ga...
I agree with you! I do think resource dungeons are meh tho. I wish there was more to them in terms of actual gameplay that adds on to how people engage in the skill of dungeoneering, instead of just being places you just visit for ig secluded resources.
I wouldn't ignore the shop and tokens tho, I believe this is a big problem to the mini game feeling too.
bronze siren
a large amount of skills have currencies and unlock / consumable shops in them without feeling like a minigame.
it's simply due to there being a singular location that encompasses basically 99% of the skill that it feels like a minigame, since those (mostly) represent in the same way
undone grotto
a large amount of skills have currencies and unlock / consumable shops in them w...
Well yeah, but these are not at the same lvl as with dungeoneering, also with the rewards it gives being weapons and all kinds of things. The vast majority of rewards from dung are from a shop, this is a big mistake. Bad comparison imo.
It's one of the reasons elite dungeons had to give tokens, since basically all dung rewards could only be bought through tokens
bronze siren
that said, the various resource dungeons should get a tune-up.
many of them either never provided a niche use or simply didn't age well.
I think there is room for more expansive areas within them too.
Such as having a few farming patches in the moss giant resource dungeon.
Or allowing the player to unearth more areas within the mining ones.
The only real instance of that is in the polypore dungeon, but there is basically no reason to use that one since it's a hassle to access and doesn't offer any actual benefit
elite dungeons didn't have to give tokens to begin with, since they were never tied to dungeoneering beyond their label
undone grotto
that said, the various resource dungeons should get a tune-up.
many of them eith...
The resource dungeons should give more modes or something where players can train dungeoneering imo
undone grotto
elite dungeons didn't have to give tokens to begin with, since they were never t...
I mean they were tied because they gave dung xp. They are a dungeoneering training method. I think this is a good thing. Players should have more choices as to how they go about their dungeoneering journey
fallen sand
would be nice to get a resource dungeon refresh, they weren't even mentioned among the "if we have time" stuff
covert quartz
resource dungeons are basically the only reward for achieving certain levels in DG (new floors is just same shit with a different skin), so yeah, I think it should be high priority
random dawn
yeah, resource dungeons are basically a one-off exp boost for hitting a "milestone".
junior quest
Regarding resource dungeons, I feel like they're very good for resources. But they could bump up the number of item spawns maybe, or speed up the spawn rate significantly to stop the want of looting and world hopping.
Some examples of how I use / have used them:
The Edgeville dungeon one with chaos druids is amazing for early- and mid-level herblore. The ones under Varrock was the best (or at least my go-to) source of limproot spawns and where I went for moss and hill giants, the frost and celestial dragons ones are (I think) the only place to find those, the dwarven mines ones open up a bank booth which makes gathering luminite way easier, as well as access to other ores. If I'm after maple logs, the daemonheim resource dungeon is where I'm gonna go, and if hunting Kal'gerions, that resource dungeon is where I'm going (still have an adversion to using the wilderness). Lesser demons for slayer + imps for champion scrolls, the Karamja volcano dungeon is where I'm going. Easy (and free) access to brimhaven dungeon for most metal dragons (bronze-adamant) with the cape teleport. The fire giants one I think I've only used a couple times when the other room was occupied but the teleport is really good for getting there. The new boss, Flesh-hatcher is behind a resource dungeon I believe. Used black demons one for access to Bork / Earth Warriors, but tend to fight demons in Taverly dungeon. Slayer tower one for teleport + material caches nearby. I didn't find the abyssals in there to be any better than up top. I've not visited the maw or divine locations dungeons since the dailies update change, blue dragon scales I just steal nowadays from the Meilyr clan but the taverly dungeon resource dungeon was good for them, hell hounds I've not really killed but that dungeon was good for clue gathering. Polypore one I'd argue is the most useless - there's enough creatures outside the dungeon that I've not really felt the need to go in and there's a fairy ring right outside that the teleport isn't that much of a time save.
I think a lot of them are useful for what they offer. They could be better but I think they're at least fine - not dead or redundant (well, not in every instance - especially at 99 with a convenient teleport directly to them for the resources within and without)
wet knot
seeing more unique variants of monsters, resources etc. would be great reward space for resoirce dungeons
fallen sand
The blog/video for the update should be dropping today
coral iron
Where blog post
