Class tweaks

[limpid coral]

With armor and such becoming 100% cosmetic, classes needed changes too, and the changes to them in the playtest were not all quite right.

Provided image is of the class perks and HP values from the playtest.

First issue: Class HP

• In the playtest, classes like assault/ medic/engineer had 100HP. However, support had 125HP and recon had 90HP. Honestly, make all classes have the same amount of HP (preferably 100HP, it can be higher as long as it's uniform). It made support stronger and recon weaker for no real reason. If speed is the concern, it should only be affected by guns, attachments and potentially gadgets.

Second issue: Perks
While classes had perks already (tho hidden), the new ones range from fine to weird or downright pointless.

• Assault
  Front runner is pointless since tac-sprint is also kinda pointless and just looks really off.
  Instead of Front runner, I suggest a new perk, Grenadier (more hand grenades and grenade launcher ammo) to fit the assault part of Assault.
• Medic
  No complaints.
• Engineer
  As much as I love engineer, why are all perks just X-ray vision for gadgets and faster seat switching? Replace with: Demolitions expert (can carry more C4/mines), Defuse Kit (can defuse/disable placed enemy gadgets, takes a couple of seconds, gets twice the XP as opposed to shooting them) and Seasoned driver (while inside a vehicle, C4 has indicators within a small area, can switch seats faster).
• Support
  Since all classes should have the same amount of health, his third perk should be Flak jacket (10% less damage by explosives, 10% less damage done to the body by bullets, headshot damage unaffected by this perk).
• Recon
  Recon still not living up to his name. To fix that, y'know that perk that Engineer had which just gives him X-ray for gadgets? Yeah recon gets it now instead of the Hunters eye perk. Also rename it into Techician (Spacial awareness also works) cause the original name sucks. Other perks are fine.

Third issue: Guns and gadgets
Note: idk what the exact state of which class has what gun class/gadget quite yet, so until i get more info i wont fill this up just yet.
I will say that C4 should only be on Engineer and Recon (recon gets less, for obvious reasons if you read any of the above).

Also couldnt fit this above due to character limit

[sage fiber]

I miss my exo my beefy exo I don’t want no health no enji fast swap nothing else just a nice good exo experience with support

Armor should not be cosmetic

[limpid coral]

Well we are shit out of luck on that one

[strong flame]

Fourth issue: no temu armor

[rapid sinew]

i dont think we need more nades.
Also suggesting that everyone should have same hp but then suggestion one gets reduced damage makes no sense

[limpid coral]

Its only 10% which mostly affects high damage guns

And that 10% doesnt apply to the head at all

I would have suggested something else, but support just doesnt have exactly a decent set of varied gadgets or anything to add a perk tied to that

[rapid sinew]

reduced sway/recoil while prone

[limpid coral]

Its kinda limiting to come up with better perks due to the fact that there are not many unique gadgets to begin with

Or in the case of engineer, just shit vehicles

[limpid coral]

Bipod

[rapid sinew]

it's extra

[limpid coral]

Maybe extra mags for support instead of flak jacket

But idk

[rapid sinew]

you don't need extra mags if you carry ammo box

[limpid coral]

Yeah

You kinda see the problem here

Support doesnt have much

And you gotta give it something

[rapid sinew]

no resupply costs for himself (except nades)

?

[limpid coral]

Thats just beyond broken

[rapid sinew]

strong yeah but not broken

[limpid coral]

Ok so you get infinite ammo (already like a 1000 bullets per box), infinite bandages, infinite resuppliable gadgets

[rapid sinew]

for ammo I mean

[limpid coral]

Still a bit too much imo

He already gets insta build

Thats really strong

[rapid sinew]

if you manage to empty your main gun + 2 boxes worth of ammo you deserve it in my opinion

[limpid coral]

Which never happens unless you do nothing but shoot

[rapid sinew]

yeah

[limpid coral]

Box already gives 1000 per box

3k bullets tops

[rapid sinew]

maybe reduced spawn timers for himself and people that spawn on him?

[limpid coral]

Plus you are bound to die or use other boxes/airdrops

[limpid coral]

Sounds better on squad leaders ngl

[limpid coral]

On the nade part rq
Prolly should have mentioned it, way i see it most classes should have 1 or 2 grenades, with assault having 2 extra

[rapid sinew]

but there is no squad leader class, would need some extra work then.
I'm also not a fan of support insta building, should only be 2x or 3x.

you could maybe add into passives like assault, for every team member in your area you get 3% better speed/reload speed/ads/recoil till a max of 20% or sth

[limpid coral]

If you lead the squad, people can spawn on you faster

Shrimple

[worldly lagoon]

I think the solution is to revert all the class and armour changes from the update 👍

[limpid coral]

Armor gotta be tweaked a bit at least

[worldly lagoon]

Yeah I'm not serious but I really don't like the new system I feel it removes a lot of player agency over their own experience

[strong flame]

✅ ✅ ✅

[worldly lagoon]

Also can we talk about how poor this reasoning for removing armor stats is

#battlebit-eng message

#battlebit-eng message

[limpid coral]

I think the only overcomplicated part of armor is the actual armor part
Since you can just ignore it entirely (leg meta my detested)

Also the fact that there was just no way for a player to know it was even there to begin with

Rest of it was fine

Also lol "we want to have flat speed values", then proceeds to give support extra health and make it extra slow

Also funny how he gives an example of sandy frontline

Like that map doesnt have literal cliff that are a detriment to the team especially if nobody uses the grapple

[strong flame]

Backpacks/armor are overcomplicated.. until they add the option to save loadouts and we forget about changing each part every match

[worldly lagoon]

Like I said in my response to vilaskis the overcomplicated part of armour is the UI, not the armour itself(apart from the fact that it only covers part of the body). There was no reason to make armour purely cosmetic in favour of class attributes. Both would be fine though.

[foggy phoenix]

That was very pity for armour and backpack system to be removed. I wish that could be reverted at some point

[foggy phoenix]

I agree with most of upper parts, just some tweaks :

• Assault has faster ADS and reload perk remained.
  Plus fallen damage reduction, Fast Holster from Recon and only Unbuild faster from Support.
  Granadier perk not only about quantity, but also several kind of throwable. Assault now can bring 2 kinds of throwable.
  -> A speedy and fast-paced contact expert, open fire and clear space.

• Engineer with perk Technical Tactician have some indicators for sense where are enemy gadgets, not X-Ray visual ofc.
  Defuse Kit get twice XP and have a small system like collecting and stack scraps, for quickly creating nade, gadgets and RPG by themselves.
  Has explosive related damage reduction by Flak Armor, and to be the only one class has C4.
  -> A madman on explosive field, vehicles and anti-vehicles (as if vehicles get better).

• Recon with Death Mark spotting enemy longer with double XP if target elimiated, spotted by normal enemy will be faded shorter except sniper enemy. The only class has ghille suit too.
  -> I believe very few ppl play recon using battle rifles, so this class should only focus on marking and elimiating enemy from far sight, BBR sniper gameplay is OP enough.

• Support replace the medic role. Strong enough for drag injured faster and bring more 1 or 2 mags and gadgets, cared big hand enough for faster bandaging
  Buiding Ready remain, Flak Jacket revert to become Shield Plate, only reduce bullet damage on body and limp, only use by this class but can't resupply. Reduce spawn time by 25% for team is an interesting idea.
  -> I'd be glad if this class have suppression system as some kind for more impact (bleed system with some tweak comeback ?), but Oki and most of ppl won't like it. Imo this class should be the center of the battle, for resupply and fortification.

[limpid coral]

They added loadoits in the ppaytest

So its more than possible

[strong flame]

im aware, but its useless if we cant have a real armor to use in our loadout

[limpid coral]

To note why some classes have certain perks, it is to push the classes to be able to play in other ways too, and to not make a class be strictly be very good in one singular playstyle

That being said:
Assault has the Grenadier to shift away from support being the one with the most grenades, and to make assault a bit more unique due to their slight lack of unique gadgets tied to them
I have thought about engineer being able to pick up some gadgets after disarming it, but that might be a bit too much + i dont think it will be that common enough to warrant being able to do that either way
Recon is the one i want to push to be able to have multiple playstyles, right now it is kinda hard locked into being a long range class and be almost useless to the entire team, with having almost nothing to be played up close. Having another gun category like carbines or SMGs would help with this as well.
Combining 2 classes into one is not something i wanted to propose since it would have been pretty far fetched to even happen, but i am not against it either. However i do think if that were to happen, we would also need to be able to select more than one sets of perks (one focused more on medic, other on support playstyle).

Also the reason why support has Flak jacket, it is also to push support into being a bit more agressive.

Ideally, each class would have 2 sets of perks, focused on different playstyles
However, because we have a small pool of gadgets + lack of functionality with armor, backpacks and belts, its just not possible at this point in time to realistically push people into subclasses and let them have more control over how they get to play

Simply put shits in a tight spot, cant do much about it

[strong flame]

007 assault perk... 10 bandages, mp443, 25 mags, 2 nades, no primary.. 🥹

i think dev team just needs ideas.. and actually listen to the community...

[sour granite]

me when support can still look like a not support

[limpid coral]

Issues 99% resolved by just not having universal gear

[raw gale]

Wait classes haver perks?

What are the ones in the game now?

[grave hazel]

What if engi could wire enemy gadgets to become friendly

[limpid coral]

In the live version of the game, they are similar to the playtest ones, but its a bit different

• Assault has 25% faster reload, ADS speed and draw speed with all weapons
• Medic has faster dragging and uses bandages/revives faster
• Engineer has nothing, unless you count the ability to build barbed wire
• Support can instantly build anything, can build/unbuild existing structures faster, also can build barbed wire and tall hesco (he can still do this in the playtest)
• Recon has longer spotting

[rapid sinew]

engi should still have more destruction xp

[limpid coral]

Oh right

He does have that

[rapid sinew]

it's so useless it shouldn't count tho

[limpid coral]

Yeah

[raw gale]

Thanks a lot!

[limpid coral]

This might lead to a lot of fuckery, so for now i didnt include it

[limpid coral]

Np

[grave hazel]

Would be fun tho

Also I like reviving through walls but it kinda defeats the dragging feature except in some situations

[limpid coral]

Its a "its just a feature" atp

I wonder if they actually changed it in the playtest

[slate canopy]

So people either complain about getting leg shotted or everyone picks support because “fuck you I picked the right class so I win the gun fight”

I don’t entirely agree with how they went about it either - a general rework of exo armor and helm to serve niche purposes (i.e. the headshot immunity until the helmet gets popped or increased explosive resistance until armor gets popped) would have been better. But I get why they did it this way.

If you overbuff one class, or every other class is inferior… guess why everyone picks that one superior class. Same reason why we had medic meta

As for palma’s ideas he already knows how I feel. C4’s already been nerfed to the ground so removing it from certain classes because its too OP, too overused, whatever, is kinda pointless because the nerf addresses that. And we really shouldn’t be giving assault lethal grenades launchers

[limpid coral]

To add to this, even if they added a -X percent damage to legs, you might as well remove armor and keep the leg damage, because the difference between BBR and every other shooter atp would be minimal tbh

[limpid coral]

To an extent, i am running on the idea that C4 is the same as the live version

Minus the sounds C4 makes now, and that one perk for engineer i suggested where C4 has an indicator

As for the assault perk, even if no lethal GLs are added, assault having more ammo for the Smoke GL doesnt seem too bad, assuming that other classes that have/might have the GL have far less ammo

As far as armor goes, if they just removed the armor part of armor and kept the other stats (but tweaked a bit obv), I would have been fine with it

[foggy phoenix]

I agree with each class should be devided into 2 subs, for richen experience

so take this as a gift, and merry christmas to everyone 🎉