#Make most objectives not circle shaped

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

north token
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As we know all objectives on every map are always shaped like a circle, and this has for a while caused a couple of large issues:

  • Confusion on what area the objective would logically encompass
    You would think an objective would encompass the POI (point of interest), be it a building or some other structure it is in, but that is not the case. Quite often the circle does not encompass the appropiriate area it is in, leading to confusion on which part would be the area in which you can or can't capture in. This is tied to another issue of:
  • Circles being too large or too small
    This in particular leads to enemies easily contensting the point constantly (circle is too large) or hiding in an unsuspecting corner very close to the objective and capturing it once everyone leaves (circle too small).

There are few instances where a circle as a capture point actually works, but many other ones have issues where a circle objective is detrimental for defending the objective and particularly new player experience.

Changing it to feature rectangles and other unique shapes would help ease in new players AND improve defending objectives long term.

slate canyon
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Gib POI Capture Points

north token
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I will also use this thread to also adress what Vilaskis said on this particular matter long ago: #1270704788866334762 message

  1. Simply put, no Vilaskis, circles make the confusion worse
  2. Players learning how a map works is one of the fundamental and fun experiences in a vast majority of multiplayer games. Also, if player finds the experience of pressing one button twice, once to open and check the map, and another to close it, to be uncomfortable, maybe the game is not for them.
  3. If we want to avoid further confusion on what is supposed to be the objective area or not, add lines on the ground. This something that has existed in games from 10+ years ago, including BF4 and numerious other video games outside of it's genre. Hell I am positive that Rush game mode has this already.
frank mica
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  1. implies people even know they can open map while alive
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we love bbr tutorial

upbeat portal
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No notes from me. checkcircle

glossy trench
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Somehow, in some way, this will break building even more

north token
north token
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He better not leave it as a circle

glossy trench
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Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahhaahhahahahahahahaha

north token
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A man can only dream of such a thing

glacial ginkgo
north token
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I have zero faith they are gonna change it for the overhaul

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After it, maybe

glacial ginkgo
north token
glacial ginkgo
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no there was a recent one

celest pulsar
# glacial ginkgo pretty sure vil declined that already. cant find the msg rn

convex shaped capture zone wont improve game, as we still forced to disable spawning 50-100m away from objective. + since there is no minimap, that would be hard for us to outline capture zone without forcing player open big map every second to understand where are from he can capture objective.

Lines on surface also was ignored by players on RUSH and look out of place + cause few artifacts on some players hardware like turning whole screen white or even not render zone at all.

Maybe when we will develop a KOTH gamemode with 300m capture radius, we may introduce a feature, where are if player staying more closer to the middle of circle -he will have a bigger influence on capturing. That will help defending side to hold objective under control for a longer time. If that will be a case, this feature will be ported to CONQ

But that will come potentially in future as we need to find a way to explain clearly and in a easy way on a player UI of how much capturing influence does he have at the moment.

This update will bring a new UI feature - "Contest bar" where are you will know immediately how many team mates and enemy are inside capture zone. It will give better idea to anyone about taking action.

At the current LIVE version of the game while capture zones is big, you do not have enough information to understand situation on objective with lead to some kind of frustration while you trying to defend objective.

CC @north token

image.png
glacial ginkgo
slate canyon
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not perfect, and would still like capture points be tied to the POI they are placed in, but its something

frank mica
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Multiple spawn points aren't real

slate sleet
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shoutout to that patch where if the tower fell on valley one of the spawn points just didnt work

frank mica
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Shout out to every cap with dogshit spawns where you're 4m away from spawns but somehow not contesting point

frank mica
north token
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Sworce please post tensa D point

frank mica
north token
# celest pulsar convex shaped capture zone wont improve game, as we still forced to disable spaw...

Before i begin ranting again, i just want to say that it sucks that in the current moment in time it is impossible to change certain aspects regarding spawns and such, and i really cant adress those other than "lmao just change/fix it"

That being said, convex shapes would drastically help adress some problematic capture points instead of a simple circle, notably for defenders

On that note, defenders are also massively discouraged from defending points due to not being able to build on them because of the invisible "no build zone". Could this zone just not exist anymore or at least be smaller to allow people to properly fortify the points?

Lines on the ground, minus the issues which should be solved, being ignored by the players seems odd especially if they stand out so much apparenly. Still, lines on the ground in other games typically reflect via color which team is actively in control of said point (or other indicator like in BF1 for example with flags), and is a great indicator to show if a point is contested or not

As for the contest bar and the possible KOTH capture point feature (altho i do think this should remain in KOTH only), no complaints from me

glossy trench
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being given tools to play defensively
Not being able to use said tools because of arbitrary spawn points
Not being able to defend an objective because sitting outside in a bush counts as capturing

Truly, it is a mystery as to why people don't play as a team

north token
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Captures point
Leaves to capture other points
The point you just captured gets taken over immediatelly cause of some shitter sitting in some fuckass corner 1 meter away from cap point

glacial ginkgo
north token
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Better yet, when cap point gets taken over cause the empty half of the map allows for people to put up a rally and constantly back cap

north token
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Oh yeah lets also not forget to fix squad spawning and promoting staying in a cap point to defend it, cause that also makes the issue of backcapping worse

glacial ginkgo
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you can not prevent some dude sitting behind the point waiting for it to become free without giving each point redzones like in frontline

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if you remove all hiding spots around cap zones the map will become ass

north token
glacial ginkgo
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oh yeah lets make every map a small line with the objectives to prevent back capping

glossy trench
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can you both stop exaggerating and accept that it would be nice to at least not contest an objective by being under a truck 10 meters away

glacial ginkgo
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capture points should totally have the same size as the objective that the point is on
square building -> square point
and you should only be able to capture the point inside the building or maybe if you hug the wall outside but not below a truck further away.
But there is no way to prevent back capping with map changes without ruining all maps

north token
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I dont want backcappers to have an almost risk free way of backcapping points every match

glacial ginkgo
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the easiest solution is to just increase the time needed for few persons to cap / disable capping completey if less than x people are in the cap

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if you cant get 5 ppl to attack a point in a 125ppl team you should not get the cap

glossy trench
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backcapping is just the nature of a large scale shooter

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you can make it harder

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but it's pretty much risk free by nature of the ability to hide in houses

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and squad spawning over beacons

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but diff issue

north token
glossy trench
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then go play cod

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or insurgency

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or a game made for small maps

north token
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If you are gonna backcap you shouldnt have a square kilometer worth of space to fuck around with and use as a safe respawn point

glossy trench
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you use that image while pretending people aren't just hiding in buildings and tunnels 5 meters away

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the vast majority aren't in those fields minus a handful of snipers that die off fast anyways

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if it got removed, nothing would change, and you'd latch on to some other issue

north token
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Especially on zalfi

glossy trench
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they're terrible rally spots compared to the former tho

north token
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Not really cause who tf gonna check square kilometer worth of space for a rally you couldnt even hear at that distance

glossy trench
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they're pretty loud

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they're obnoxiously loud even

north token
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If you didnt, id be fine with it

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But guess what

glossy trench
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that's great but you can hear them from 200 meters away that leads you directly to them

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unless ur like playing with speakers

north token
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Shame theres enough space for them to be completely inaudible at that point

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And enough space to safely return to that same spot 5 minutes later in the case the rally or afk teammate dies

glossy trench
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Me personally I like my free kills from bozos who place rally points without any team support but you do you

glacial ginkgo
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palma wants all map to look like one of these

image.png
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beside even if you cut out all the areas at the sides its still easy af to backcap if you really want to

north token
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I like maps that dont have you already know how much space for easy backcapping

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You dont see me bitching about wine or tensa backcapping do you

celest pulsar
north token
glacial ginkgo
celest pulsar
north token
glacial ginkgo
celest pulsar
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we had a tiny radious before like a 5 m at first to avoid block spawn - they build stuff around spawn.
then we did 10m r around spawn , so amount of trolls who block spawns was decreased

glacial ginkgo
glacial ginkgo
north token
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At least something i can agree with haro on

celest pulsar
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better to not let you build 10m around spawn zone, than have players navigate in a maze of sandbags.

north token
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Unbuild/Caps lock doesnt exists i guess

celest pulsar
glacial ginkgo
shell crypt
north token
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Hell the latter can be done easily and give those gadgets better use

celest pulsar
glacial ginkgo
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given im talking from my / player experience here but this sounds like a solution to a problem that doesnt matter

north token
glossy trench
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Can I make a suggestion here

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A 2 parter

glossy trench
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1: why do the build able radius extend upwards instead of being a sphere or similar, so i can at least build on rooftops or 2nd floors

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2: why not have built items get deleted if someone spawns there

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2a: in the grand scheme of things, it would be less frustrating to have a build be deleted when the objective is being contested, in comparison to not being able to build period

celest pulsar
glossy trench
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Why does it need to extend so far above you though

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3 meters above is already another floor on a building

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10 meter radius is insanely large

glacial ginkgo
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in all my time playing both playtest and main game i cant remember 10 instances of that being an issue

the only thing i do remember is ppl blocking cars so much that you cant get out anymore to prevent ppl from driving away

glossy trench
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Moving past that, you already have item placement cooldowns, point costs, the fact that builds take seconds to destroy from the bottom

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The investment of building smthn, troll cage included is way more than the time it takes to tear down

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But having no way to rebuild or reinforce walls on a point feels bad

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Far future concept, you could take inspiration from battlefield 5 if you want to be more restrictive about where people build

shell crypt
glossy trench
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But the current system has a lot of freedom with almost no where to use it

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Exception is rally points but those have their own problems

glossy trench
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As a compromise

celest pulsar
glossy trench
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It would be a good starting point

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But honestly it sounds like you dont wanr players building on objectives, period

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Any wall could be considered "inconvenient" and takes a few seconds to deconstruct

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The next best thing is to whitelist where you can build instead of blacklisting a 10 meter radius on a 15 meter objective but that's extra effort

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Im sure you can go into the editor and make those radii visible and see just how much space they take up

north token
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Prepostrous

frank mica
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Nothing like the bbr ouroborus

north token
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Battlebit Ourorororoboros'd

frank mica
lucid magnet
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I know “Just mod better 4HEad” isn’t the end all be all solution, but I feel like affecting the whole playerbase just because of a few bad actors essentially just discourages people from building defenses around the point on certain objectives.. which is where I feel they’re best utilized

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Trolls can simply just move the “annoying sandbag walls” further down and effectively do the same thing right now anyways in certain situations. Frugis C point is the obvious example

lucid magnet
north token
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Very much reportable for griefing under the right circumstances

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Also cough cough blocking tunnel entrances with airdrops cough cough

glossy trench
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It must've happened to oki personally considering how hard set he is on spawn blocking being a major issue

frank mica
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OK but what if

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More than 1 spawn

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Crazy ik

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Then again that requires a functional combat check

north token
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Squad spawning fix next update surely