maybe consider, possibly... if you would my lord, thinking about entertaining the concept that...

[floral tinsel]

littlebirds desperately need to be rebalanced with more "inertia" -- especially for maneuvers involving collective spam.

[night dune]

No, other than minor tweaks to them, they do not need it

[lament egret]

^

[floral tinsel]

I'm specifically talking about inertia for "Q-E spamming" the collective control. being able to basically "come up shallow" and dead stop by pitching hard and swapping to the other direction on the collective is one thing. Immediately being able to resume the inertia you had in the opposite direction is not.

it needs to struggle just a tiny bit more with rate of climb, at least immediately after performing such a maneuver. There is no inertia-esque lag time at the bottom of that maneuver.

[night dune]

Nah, they have already been heavily nerfed in the past

They be fine

[lament egret]

could you explain why you want this change?

[night dune]

Just use the ancient techique of Jamsheed

[floral tinsel]

because they're the one vehicle in the game that just defies all the physics of other vehicles/entities? Its like they forgot to add in the weight of the vehicle, but just for that slice of maneuvers.

past nerfs or not, they're not an a well balanced place.

[lament egret]

id argue that they are balanced

and if youre going for realism then this game is not the place for that

1 rpg and theyre down

aug the pilot out

1 tank shell

m249 till the heli blows up

theres a lot of ways to kill helis

[night dune]

Being speedy but being downed by a decent RPG, sniper shot, tank, BTR, LMG/ consistent rain of bullets, even an opposing, competent heli crew (blackhawk, littlebird military, or RPG littlebird)

Sounds pretty balanced to me

[lament egret]

anyway balance of pretty much everything is changing next update so i think suggestions regarding balance should wait until after

[night dune]

Tru

[solar vigil]

the anti-torque you mean?

[cedar spire]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1203035627420127354/1238597730939441152/Replay_2024-05-10_22-44-06.mp4?ex=67afb007&is=67ae5e87&hm=ab37ca1829f27313cee0ec90e14b5b3ff48b9a0904c164480c2939920891e1a3&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1203035627420127354/1303099109573394524/oooohooohaaooo.mp4?ex=67afac9e&is=67ae5b1e&hm=14443409bf66e52e50ca2e4df2d0f4bce5ec4d30929746ce44b2e9dece60dadb&

[floral tinsel]

call it what you want, I'd call it "magically overcoming the moment of inertia during a reversal of direction" with specific regard to the vertical axis.

Re: "counters" to helicopter - RPGs are basically worthless when it's miniguns are so accurate at such extreme ranges. Same with the spread/rng baked into the lav.

Not saying you can never kill it - but it's obviously in a different league of advantage over them. It's unreasonable to think it can be countered without spamming them.

and the vehicle damage on an LMG isn't high enough to reliably take one down. Believe me, I've spent entire matches doing thousands of cumulative damage to a littlebird, never actually downing it.

[floral tinsel]

I mean... yeah, that's kinda my point. The BTR/LAV has some derp to address - but you saw the inertia/weight it simulated right? It didn't stop when it hit the wall, it THREW itself on a ricochet, and wasn't "steerable" until you'd have overcome the sudden and violent change of direction.

as far as the second clip goes... I'm more convinced that was the btr z-axis issues. I've had instances where the btr got "pinched" by terrain or a change in deployables/destructable buildings and the server retconned my position to be on top of the pile - teleporting the BTR to god knows where.

[solar vigil]

no, i will call it what it's called. Q-E isn't collective

[floral tinsel]

I'd agree, but this is a secondary kind of balance. it's not just tweaking health/damage... it's a rework/new mechanism.

[floral tinsel]

I don't know what y'all have it bound to.

Collective = vertical axis, yeah?

[solar vigil]

yes

[floral tinsel]

so, collective.

also... is it just in my head, or is there no "fall" to the rounds from the miniguns?

[solar vigil]

none

[floral tinsel]

That's problematic as well. That alone might solve the "no spread / range" issue

[lament egret]

are you saying that increasing inertia is a 'new mechanism'

[floral tinsel]

I'm saying that I think there may not be any on littlebird's vertical accel/deceleration.

so, yeah. that might necessitate adding a whole new functionality there - though I'd hope it's mostly a copy paste with some value tweaks.

[opal heart]

vehicle physics are borked in general, but nerfing the only non ass one is not it

[lament egret]

lb already has inertia so itd just be tweaking a value. its also not something they should do as its already incredibly difficult to aim while moving sporadically with a lb. these people that can go 100+/0 have hundreds of hours flying

i just dont think this is a necescary change

[floral tinsel]

It's absolutely necessary. They don't have (appropriate) inertia on vertical axis.

[lament egret]

ill say it again. this isnt the game for realism. if youre comparing the inertia to irl helis, stop doing that.

[floral tinsel]

I haven't advocated for "realism" at all.

I just want continuity in whatever make-believe game mechanics they implement

[lament egret]

continuity with what?

[floral tinsel]

the littlebird doesn't fit with the behaviors they have designed for the rest of the vehicles.

[lament egret]

yes it does

[floral tinsel]

even in comparison to the other heli

[lament egret]

the other heli is massive and tanky

[floral tinsel]

and has extreme inertia on its vertical axis.

[lament egret]

its meant to move slower because it has 12 seats

[floral tinsel]

the little bird is capable of maintaining inverted flight currently.

indefinitely.

[lament egret]

ive tested that before and you cannot infact fly upside down

[floral tinsel]

I did it 40 minutes ago.

I'll say it again:

The one thing I'm saying needs to be looked at is that there is no ramp-up on it's vertical acceleration after going from full UP to full down - BACK to full up.

At the very least, it needs to be re-evaluated with respect to absolute direction and the games "gravity"

it does not hold to the same game physics that the other heli is subjected to.

[lament egret]

it literally does follow the same rules as the other heli. it has its inertia values turned down, not off.

[floral tinsel]

prove it.

😛

until then, you'll have to agree to disagree

[lament egret]

ill get you a clip later if youd like

[floral tinsel]

👍

[lament egret]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJI2B-J4mck
in the mean time you can just watch one of the many littlebird videos and see the inertia(videos that are current because LBs have been nerfed before)

[ocean crag]

One guy being good with LB = “nerf LB”

Peak clownery

LB already got nerfed to the ground and now you want to nerf its movement on top of that because a few good players can utilize it even with it being nerfed. Sounds more like skill issue. Grab an ultimax or gun humvee and spray that shit down.. or hell use the BTR/LAV on it

[opal heart]

one ultimax is already enough to deter most normal lb pilots

[ocean crag]

Same with one humvee turret

[opal heart]

this is just the most "waaaaa skilled players waaaa" suggestion ever

[ocean crag]

But either way LB only has movement and “decent guns” (which mind you already got nerfed) going for it. Nerf that and its basically underpowered

[opal heart]

yeah it got double nerfed

also the current apcs are so ass

like it's unfunny sometimes

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/256758633633677314/1233947997356691539/BATTLEBIT.gif

like wth is that?

not to forget tank smoke screen being a smoke ball around the tank 💀

[clever tapir]

Bully you, shame on him. Let him bully you, shame on you
You and your team let him gained that much kill with zero death is more suprise than this suggestion actually

[steel barn]

funny how making the inertia consistent is considered a "nerf" now.

[ocean crag]

When the reason why they want stuff changed is “good players use it and I dont like that” yes, im considering it trying to nerf good players

He admits himself he is incapable of taking them down. The way I see it his aim is bad and he’s missing, or he attributes the LB returning to base for repairs as “fucking hell I didn’t kill it” (when in reality they’re helping the team keep the heli at bay by peppering it down. The less time that heli spends harassing your teammates the better.)

In either situation this isn’t a little bird problem, unless you want vehicles to just not be able to repair at their base

[marble veldt]

this is a lot of nerd talk

[marble veldt]

yo can you teach me this is crazy tech

[night dune]

I call immense bullshit on this

When i wanted to do a funny barrel roll on a lb last time it nearly crashed into the ground

It was possible before lbs were nerfed

[cedar spire]

I don't think lb should be Nerfed directly, but reworking/buffing the other vehicles ( m2, 7m, Apc etc) would balance them out imo

No need to change lb mechanics for the second time

[lament egret]

^

M2 and APCs need changes

Little birb does not

[ocean crag]

For the sake of giving them more viability vs air so we stop seeing “add anti-air” alongside “nerf lb”, sure. Im fine with that idea

[floral tinsel]

Trying to continue in good faith here... those clips aren't super useful here as they don't show the inputs being given, as they're given. There is no way to tell exactly when a pilot is swapping from "up" to "down" and/or feathering (we could do some napkin math by counting frames and tracking relative motion, and possibly using spectate mode to see the games reported ground-speed).

I can see a bunch of instances which support the specific situation I'm advocating be revisited. LBs can effectively change acceleration on it's vertical axis at 100% rate, with either no (or not enough) ramp.

I'm not saying that it needs to be an anchor. I'm just saying if you throw it's weight down as hard as possible, especially at angles near working with gravity and your inertia, you shouldn't be able to suddenly go the exact opposite direction as if you're taking off from the pad.

I'm not advocating for "muh realism." I'm saying that it should behave predictably in the manner of other vehicles. The rate of acceleration of climb should have to overcome the inertia of the vehicle's weight, negative acceleration, and "gravity" that everything else is subject to.

If I was pusing for realism, I'd suggest that players / classes / armor loadouts be given a load rating, and that fully loaded helos be impacted (with the littlebird being effected at a higher rate since it is capable of generating less peak lift than a blackhawk). Relative to a LBs weight, 8 heavily armored bits would be quite the load.I honestly think that'd be a bit too far, especially considering you randomly have people spawn in. Though...that'd be a pretty hilarious way to have accidents organically occur. "ON THE ROPE!" ... "OFF THE ROPE OFF THE ROPE!"

[steel barn]

proper consistent patch to wonky physics that brings vehicle in line with its normal physics : all you guys "bu-but my good pilots!" a good pilot isn't gonna give a shit because they are good pilots.

[night dune]

Im for proper wonky physics for ground vehicles and water ones because they are legitimatly jank as shit

But heli physics are fine

[cedar spire]

also, I love how a rpg rocket can just stop a ka60 mid air

xd

[toxic ice]

Your video broken

[cedar spire]

?

works fine for me

[toxic ice]

I see only one frame whole time but sound is playing

[cedar spire]

it could be that I am using h265

[rotund thunder]

works for me

[toxic ice]

Some discord shit probably

[cedar spire]

ye

[toxic ice]

I agree with the suggestion, because i think helis should be nerfed at least in movement, especially little bird. I honestly don't fucking know what is wrong with "skill issue" ahh people here, both little bird and blackhawk are tanky as shit in a battle and killing pilot or destroying vehicle is more like coincidence than a solution. Maybe there is a significant difference between european and american servers in how people are playing or what?

[night dune]

There is a difference in between knowing how to deal with the threat and not knowing

Most are seemingly in capable of the concept of leading your shots and/or shooting the tail rotor

[opal heart]

"lb tanky"
ah yes

[night dune]

It was already established that lb can infact be obliterated by a heat rocket

Pretty sure a tandem can obliterate a blackhawk

But that be much harder

[toxic ice]

I mean it's just fast enough to avoid most shots.

[opal heart]

kind of like that's its purpose

is mag dumping that difficult?

[toxic ice]

It's not difficult until you trying to shoot randomly moving object in the sky which takes whole squad shooting at it to be destroyed. Something telling me that bullets do not travel instantly and there is somewhat named recoil exist. Otherwise yeah, i can do so.

And probably solution if i stand right to it.

[opal heart]

it's not difficult to hit a lb and recoil isn't very hard to counter

[rotund thunder]

good lb are very hard to hit

[toxic ice]

I don't argue that it can be destroyed or pilot can be shot, the problem is that some people don't understand that most players are not good enough to support whatever should be done at the moment and most of them never will, they just playing not sweating.

Making game for people will bring more players to it.

Land vehicles on the other hand are much easier to handle.

[cedar spire]

mmm

[toxic ice]

Bruh i still can't see video

Restart didn't help

[cedar spire]

one sec

[toxic ice]

Oh i can download it nevermind

[cedar spire]

🧌

[toxic ice]

And? You managed to hit chopper, i did that too once or twice, somewhat possible.

[cedar spire]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleBitRemastered/comments/1iocsf5/2_birds_1_jam/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

there is a dude that has a +1000 track record for taking down littlebirds

don't nerf the lb, buff the counters ( apc, m2, 7m etc)

[toxic ice]

Could work too.

It's called balancing.

[cedar spire]

bc rn apc has a 20 round "mag" with a pretty long reload time

and mediocre accuracy

[toxic ice]

Buffing weapons should be done carefully too to avoid other gameplay issues.

[cedar spire]

ye I agree

[toxic ice]

If devs will release updates regularly after this one then they will have more room for experimenting if needed.

[rotund thunder]

lb needs a reliable counter for inf

[late rapids]

I will add that the dude in question has said in the past that they think LBs could use some nerfs...

[cedar spire]

Oh

[late rapids]

I mean that opinion could have changed. @novel dagger where are you on littlebirds atm?

[cedar spire]

Had no idea

[lament egret]

I get that you want to turn up the inertia but that's a little bird nerf which is NOT a good idea. The whole thing that makes the heli usable is that it's can move unpredictably to not get shot. These pilots that can go on massive kill streaks with the heli have hundreds of hours flying. It's not like anyone can pick up the little bird and instantly go 100/0 like ratkunt and racoon man. Making the little bird easier to hit would require compensating buffs like higher damage and more health which would overall dumb down the little bird and how fun it is.

[novel dagger]

Some inertia is needed. Not a crazy amount though. Pilots air braking on a dime has to go. If you don’t add inertia then you open the conversation to the weirdos asking for lock on systems.

[floral tinsel]

I dunno man, good pilots shouldn't have much trouble adjusting.

inertia isn't a nerf for the lb, it's been an oversight.

[floral tinsel]

Lock-on could be fun if they added active countermeasures

and maybe gave copilots an active role?

[lament egret]

look, no matter your opinion on whether or not inertia should be increased its quite clearly a nerf. It makes the heli easier to hit which means you can kill it faster/easier. who knows, maybe a nerf IS appropriate, but its still a nerf.

[floral tinsel]

I also didn't say all of it's inertia. I had one axis of motion in which it's obviously busted.

Honestly, it may be a bad calculation for gravity + direction of motion when figuring whatever inertia system they attempted to implement

whatever it is, its broken and its a problem lol

Racoon's KD was mostly a joke, I took more issue with the fact that he was literally unkillable for an entire 40minute match than that he got 100 kills.

I'd be happier seeing them get 200 kills, if they were downable

Nerfing the range that their miniguns are effective at would be just as good as solving the lack of vertical inertia. It would force them to risk being in useful range of antio-air weapons. Not 2 miles away.

[lament egret]

thats fair but like as someone whos tried to learn to use the lb armed well i gave up because i got shot down every 3 minutes and had to wait for a new heli to spawn. is that a skill issue? yes. but i think making them easier to shoot down just makes the game less fun for pilots. of course you have far more experience than me with this stuff so i trust your judgment, this is just my opinion

[floral tinsel]

I mean, there are scripts for auto leveling and crap intended to evade stuff like autohotkey and make it brainless to move perfectly sideways in a circle.

I'm not accusing anyone specifically - just that I have been made aware that stuff like that exists, because it existed for BF4 etc etc going back to the days of quick-scoping in counterstrike 1.6.

[lament egret]

this is true, scripts can be an issue but of course thats a macro and i believe is bannable

[floral tinsel]

It is, but detection can be a serious issue. I have no viable solution for that kind of spineless and unsportsman like behavior. Locks are for the honest man.

[steel barn]

their damage falloff is fucking insane so no need to nerf that. they just seem like they do a fuckton of damage because they don't have an overheat, and spit out a mountain of bullets.

as for the macro, its literally just sideways movement, how would you detect that if its just a constant?

[floral tinsel]

the stuff I'd seen would auto-return to level and feather multiple keys to maintain altitude... but in one button (or "do this if not using _ axis and/or vertical)

The damage-at-range is mostly regarding stuff like LB bullet drop not being a thing.

[steel barn]

even without it, unless you do not move, the guns wont do much past 120.

and are more effetive within 80.

[floral tinsel]

Eh... make that 200 and 120 and I'd agree

[steel barn]

I believe the drop off starts at 20 meters

[floral tinsel]

Maybe, but they're an order of magnitude more accurate at ranges out to a couple hudred meters.

and no bullet drop.

Not much in the way of needing to correct based on your motion either... if it's in the crosshairs, its getting hit.

[steel barn]

they really ain't accurate

[floral tinsel]

I don't think they need harsher damage dropoff, or increased spread... I think adding in ballistics like anything else has would introduce enough randomization to push pilots a smidge closer, and make them go a bit more toe to toe

[steel barn]

its accuracy by volume

no overheat means all the bullets go

[floral tinsel]

Lol say that to a blackhawk with 2x turrets

[steel barn]

the blackhawk turrets are inaccurate as fuck after less than a second of shooting

[floral tinsel]

not even moving, that blackhawk, at the same range, with both guns going on target... you'll land <10% of the rounds the LB will - shot for shot

[steel barn]

yeah, hence why I said the big advantage is the lack of overheat. which both slows the guns and makes them more inaccurate.

[floral tinsel]

Ok, even in the first second, before heat kicks in

[steel barn]

and even then, you have to not be moving for one to kill you at that distance

[floral tinsel]

the max spread for the LB is ~1/3 the area of the starting spread for blackhawk.

Ehhh, nah. BS on the not moving thing.

Lol the pilots that flat-spin around their targets? They're moving at near max speed, and just cut any target, or pathway of targets down.

[floral tinsel]

I do think there's room for a testable adjustment though... Increase the "spool-up" time for LBs guns by an extra 1/2 a second, and start collecting stats for LB K/Ds

*by itself.

[steel barn]

an overheat would be enough, the spool up time don't matter much when they just keep firing. the physics would also be much better if consistent

[steel barn]

stuck out in the open? sure. don't challenge the bird if its guns are looking at you

[floral tinsel]

I'd prefer consistent physics... I'm just trying to think of a handful of adjustments where any one would shift the playstyle into more manageable bounds.

[novel dagger]

No. Have we not learned from Battlefield already?

[ocean crag]

All lockon would do in 127 is cause every engi to turn off their brain and spam it whenever they see a heli. Good luck trying to avoid 10+ lock on rockets

This whole thread is just skillissue™️ the discussion

Of the 3 people voting they want this change, 2 admit they arent good at taking out helis and somehow think the littlebird is too tanky (lol? LMG and turret fire shreds it?) I get it, it’s not easy. Doesn’t mean we should trivialize it, rather, give people an area to learn how to deal with them more effectively (hello shooting range)

And whilst other vehicles need better physics, sure, the LB would suffer from it because movement is all it has going for it. If you want to nerf that at least suggest something to buff it to compensate so its not underpowered, preferably in it’s defensive capabilities

[novel dagger]

I fly and am a passenger for a good amount of my play time and I totally get the plight of the pilots and the fragility of that play style. Seeing that I have the most kills on helis you can say I’m biased but I actually believe that shooting down good pilots should be hard (it is very hard to do). Inertia won’t stop good pilots from being good pilots.

@floral tinsel https://youtu.be/JxTqG_BF16I?si=T25aL8cMrnEtzMlT

Have fun having 127 javelins arc into your face

Or 127 iglas swarming your heli like bees

[stable cosmos]

please devs dont read this thread

lbs are already shit

you can only go 100+/0 against dumb enemies who doesnt know the apc

also skilled blackhawk pilots can obliterate you in 15 seconds, as the sound of the bullets hitting the lb is bugged and you're already on fire before noticing them

[floral tinsel]

RIP Thick44 ❤️

[steel barn]

the up and down movement is not even what pilots use, which is what this thread is talking about.

[stable cosmos]

depends on the map

salhan for example you can spam w-s while staying on the river part and sniping the openfield

[steel barn]

in which case the inerta change would alter nothing about that playstyle.

[night dune]

Lock on stinky af

[floral tinsel]

I mean, I agree. I was just saying there exists room in the universe where theres a fun gameplay loop there.

anti-air measures being an entirely different discussion...

Fire-and-forget systems (*et * Stingers, Javelins c.) being wildly problematic with such large lobbies and over-plentiful munitions/resupply (vs number/frequency of helis)...

Has any consideration ever been given to Fly-by-wire systems? Slow moving, limited range/timer, and the user winds up standing static from their firing position. More, larger, weaknesses by comparsion.

[night dune]

Either remove overheat on all miniguns or make all miniguns have overheat (bit tweaked like at least let me fire for at least 3 seconds without aim going to shit)

[night dune]

No.

[steel barn]

Fly by wire systems are technically being looked at for future implementation.

[night dune]

Source?

[stable cosmos]

what does that mean?

[steel barn]

its on the list of "things to look at"

[stable cosmos]

yeah

but what it actually represents to the gameplay?

[steel barn]

....I just realized the mistake, I meant Wire-Guided.

Fly by wire as far as I know is a redundancy system for flying.

[solar vigil]

fly by wire is more of a way of computers controlling the flight of the aircraft

stability and what not

I realize now I can’t explain it despite knowing what it is

[steel barn]

power steering but for aircraft

[stable cosmos]

ahhh tows

this shit is gonna nerf helis to the ground

but atleast it will counter the campy tanks

[steel barn]

if you know how TOWs work, not really.

the things do not turn fast

would be effective at long range, but moving perpendicular at high speed would defeat it

[stable cosmos]

the main problem here is they dont suffer that much at range when compared to rpgs, so the strategy of staying far from your enemy wont make a big difference

3 guys abusing it will probably get you downed

on most good matches you already get chased by loads and loads of enemies with lmgs dmrs and rpgs

now switch those with wire missiles

[steel barn]

its a turret

[stable cosmos]

hmm

then its ok

[steel barn]

either a static emplacement or a vehicle

and vehicle, well they suck anyway

[stable cosmos]

fixed turret could be better

[steel barn]

if added they would not be something we can slap into our loadout

I do want fixed turrets added to maps

[stable cosmos]

otherwise there would be a vehicle tow camping 2km away at base exploding everything

[steel barn]

might not alway be the most effective stuff but its fun

[steel barn]

I mean if they can see fucking targets at that distance with what is essentially gonna be a 1x scope(most games use 1x sights for this exact reason) they might deserve that kill

[stable cosmos]

thats reasonable, you convinced me its a good addition to the game

[solar vigil]

tow “missile” that shoots a tow truck

Ill accept checks for this idea

[steel barn]

add rescue trucks to pull wrecks out of combat to speed up respawn timer

[solar vigil]

add logistics

[stable cosmos]

now we are talking

[steel barn]

I will spend all my time towing and dropping supplies if they do lol

I love doing logi

[stable cosmos]

NOW WE ARE TALKING

[stable cosmos]

yeah i wish there was some kind of realistic modes without squad or point spawn

where transport actually mean something

and ammo needs to be transported too

[steel barn]

yeah, but honestly transport would need to be buffed massively

and by that I mean be at least somewhat driveable

[stable cosmos]

on 5x5km maps with 300 players

[stable cosmos]

only the driving mechanics

i mean there could be humvees on the points for inter-point transport

only for infantry

and trucks on the base used for supply and infantry

[steel barn]

yeah, but thats what I mean. vehicle physics suck

they bounce on everything, and if you get hit you unity bounce and spin

[stable cosmos]

its so easy to get stuck

[steel barn]

its why nobody really uses them besides the 7m turreted ones

[stable cosmos]

i think the best trasport vehicle (besides helis) on the game now is the jetski

its so easy to go to far objectives on water maps

and its silent

[steel barn]

quad and jetski just because they are so small its hard for them to be hit or get stuck

[stable cosmos]

gonna make a suggestion with this later

[floral tinsel]

you are correct - I mis-typed. Wire guided is absolutely what I meant.

[rustic hound]

Hey I’m late to the thread but I agree with this. Personally I think the height cap of the skybox needs to be lowered quite a lot as well so that helis can’t just sit at the skybox and avoid the threat of tanks/lavs & infantry fire. I think I’ve said somewhere else before that the ammo count should also be lowered because having a 3000 round mag with no cooldown or punishment for just holding left click is a little bit op

But littlebirds being fast & zippy directly ties into their survivability. Someone before said that LB’s are too tanky and I strongly disagree with that. If anything it needs more health & this becomes very apparent when you try to take on a good Blackhawk crew

[night dune]

On the 3k round mag part, Ive said this a lot in places but miniguns should be consistent across all vehicles tbh
Either have all be pinpoint accurate or have overheat

Having lbs be the only ones with zero drawback is nonsense

[steel barn]

why not BF style. I don't think accuracy changes, but rpm slows and then shuts off with over heat

[rustic hound]

ok so the problem with this is that currently you see a lot of blackhawks full of engineers & a medic or two constantly repairing & healing the players inside. It is insanely difficult to shut down one of these crews (given the pilot is decent) & they just become almost unkillable unless you are able to get a cheeky tail rotor

now imaging buffing the guns on this death machine that already dominates the skies & enemy tanks/lavs with rpgs raining down from above

it would be too dominant across all fields

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOgbeVB8Uek&ab_channel=RATKUNT kinda bad example but the miniguns aren't actually too bad atm. They could use a small buff for sure but the blackhawk is already a beast on the battle(bit)field

[night dune]

Fair
In that case lb miniguns should have overheat

[rustic hound]

yeah I wouldn't mind that

I think everybody would approve of that

but also killing a blackhawk crew with minigun cooldown will be absolute hell

[night dune]

I think the only changes the current miniguns with overheat could have is a slight buff to infy damage and at least 1 or 2 extra seconds where the minigun accuracy isnt complete ass

[rustic hound]

yeah I'm down for that

it takes a good 11ish shots to kill an exo armour so a slight dmg & accuracy buff would be nice

[toxic ice]

I said LBs tanky because they very fast fly around in all directions and you basically never damage them enough with bullets at least to force pilot to turn back to the base. Hitting this with RPG at non close range is more random gambling moment than a solution. This thing is disbalanced as hell. The same way devs can just add ingame cheats for fun and every time say "skill issue" because fuck you. Cancer gameplay as it is.

[rustic hound]

that is intentional (to a certain degree) because of how little health it has

when a LB gets used properly it should not be easy enough for the average person to solo take down, even tho it really is pretty easy

I frequently shoot raccoonman out or others

a bunch of people have mastered the rpg

if you are struggling than ask your squad or nearby teammates to help shoot it down

if you did want to try solo a LB pilot my advice is to try approaching it more tactically. Don't just shoot it out in the open (unless you are with a bunch of teammates) because you will just be asking to get shot at by either the enemy team or the pilot themself. BE A RAT. Get a good off angle away from where you think/know the pilot is going to strafe (but still in range to shoot them out), hold your fire until the right moment & lead your shots so that you are aiming for the left seat. I've found the m249, aug, l86, even the SCAR-H have all been quite effective at ripping the pilot out of the heli

or hop in a blackhawk those things are at the top of the food chain when it comes to vehicles

I understand the frustration of trying to take these things out & wanting massive nerfs to the LB but you have to remember that there are still casuals/new players that may want to hop in a LB every now and then. But if the LB is nerfed heavily in response to the good pilots performances than how do you expect people who have barely flown it to perform

[toxic ice]

You forgetting that new players also exist on the ground.

Flying vehicles allows you to instantly attack any point and capture it without any fight on the way to it. While land vehicles can be caught with antivehicle mines and you have to ride carefully flying ones have no obstacles in the air. So the only way to deal with choppers is to shoot them from all directions at the same time and hope for the best.

[rustic hound]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-huh-m4rtin-huh-huh-meme-what-cat-gif-27377993

[ocean crag]

Balance shouldn’t be focused around new players, that’s how you get games with a low skill ceiling, which (for an FPS BF clone like BBR) isnt something you want.

also what new players

[night dune]

Aren't new players in like, any game bad anyways

Like

[ocean crag]

Generally speaking yes

[night dune]

I am such an olde man that nowdays new players are meant to be good off the start

[ocean crag]

That being said some can pick up a game faster than others

[night dune]

Am i out of touch

Tru

Ok being serious, i really dont think new, and by proxy, bad players, be able to stand toe to toe with an experienced player

[ocean crag]

And now you see why I dismiss bad faithed/“Im inexperienced” arguments and talking points as skill issue/lack of experience

[night dune]

It makes the game too easy for new players, making the experience too boring if you are just winning, and for experienced players their hard invested time is worthless if a new player can dome them as hard as an experienced one

[ocean crag]

Yep. Same case for LB

Was already nerfed twice, “its too hard to take down” when others can prove otherwise isn’t good faithed

I can showcase examples of people taking them down with RPGs, sniping the pilot, etc. if needed. Imo its not a game issue, its a player one.

[night dune]

And a quick comment on this, this really is not true
From experience flying the littlebird, there has always been some sort of resistance on the way
At least 1 guy shooting at me
And this doesnt bring up the fact that other helicopters exist, some of which are scary good and obliterate me in seconds

[night dune]

Hell ive taken out choppers with RPGs, even did it once mid air

And honestly, im pretty washed

Im not a great player

It simply takes effort

Also to add on the heli resistance part, as a pilot i am frequently sniped and shot at with RPGs

I kinda learned how to avoid them but its a more stressful experience knowing that there is 1 dude at least ready to dome me at some point

[rustic hound]

Yeah you right but do you get what I’m trying to say? It definitely should take a lot of practice to perform well with the LB but it shouldn’t be nerfed into oblivion based off of a few pilots having high kill streaks (with a lot of luck involved). Generally these days when a LB pilot is performing well it’s simply because the other team isn’t actively trying to counter it (or the pilot is just playing exceptionally)

Also it seems like there have been more and more low lvl accounts popping up on the US official. But I guess I more so meant new/returning players when the update drops next next April 😉

[left crater]

Just add lockons for the new players and experienced ones can just direct with rpg

[rustic hound]

nah I'm sure the new players could just do this instead ez pz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSS1crkrupk&ab_channel=RATKUNT

[left crater]

[ocean crag]

Yeah, I get that point.

People make suggestions to nerf stuff just because one petson got 100+ kills with a certain weapon/strat/etc. all the time, I dont know why but yeah

[left crater]

lock ons

[night dune]

Lock ons only if they deal no damage and just cause terror in pilots

[left crater]

so same as usual

because flares and competent pilots