Add depth to alternative fire modes

[calm plover]

Nobody uses the alternative fire modes. Players either spam over further distances, or simply fire single shots in quick intervals while in full auto. Currently, there are 4 different types of fire modes. Semi-Auto (which I will call single shot), Double, Burst and Full-Auto.

My idea is that players who switch to the most ideal fire modes should have a slight advantage over those who don't, this would incentivise their usage.

Singleshot:
Singleshot would shine in scenarios where the enemies are the furthest. Of course, as the distance increases, the size of the enemy decreases so it might already be hard to aim at the target, and suppress recoil enough the followup shot hits (or kills) aswell. I propose that if single fire mode (Semi Auto) is enabled, the advantage would be that** after the recoil punch is over** (which of course still depends on the recoil and first shot kick value), the crosshair moves exactly back to the original spot. However, your firerate would actually be hard-capped to e.g 100-150 shots per minute, depending on the weapons original Firerate.

Double:
I first just wanted to make Double like Burst, however I wanted it to be unique. Double would essentially shoot twice, without or very minimal recoil in between these shots, however your recoil will combine and gets applied after the second shot and is therefore way bigger than shooting two bullets in normal mode. This mode is the perfect double headshot kill for medium/larger ranges on still targets.

Burst:
Burst fires 3 shots as of now, however from a little testing, the recoil becomes a burden past 30-40 meters if you aim at centre mass. So the recoil might need to get reduced while in burst mode slightly + hardcap the firerate in between full auto and single shot. Alternatively, don't change it and just give burst the buff that it always shoots 3 bullets, once the first shot is made. Meaning even if the player is dead, his gun would still finish the burst.

[midnight coral]

you do realize the next update is making recoil effectively a non issue on longer ranges in full auto
as much as this makes sense there will be no place for it anymore

why self checkmark 💀

[calm plover]

habbit, if i tell you the real reason you could do something that annoys me.

[midnight coral]

ew cringe

[calm plover]

Anyway, theses changes would also be accompanied with extra settings allowing you to set the fire mode of your weapon in deployment screen, default: Full-Auto. With an extra option for "Last Firemode" when you died.

And also a system that prevents some weird exploits where by switching the mode fast you can somehow circumvent the hard-capped firerate.

Regarding schlammjumpers msg:
Yeah I am aware about next update, idk why recoil would be reduced (which essentially decreaes TTK again to pre-update perhaps). The recoils, if you compare it to IRL is already low.

[midnight coral]

i mean current recoil is fairly accurate for the most part

[calm plover]

I mean for the first shots for sure

Well, I just put the suggestion here, I doubt anything will come out of it but hey, it's worth trying. And... nobody are using them right now so that is an issue personally.

[raven oriole]

Does anyone use alt firing modes in games

Like the only time you would do it is if it has a gimmick, otherwise its just not gonna be used anyways

Also idk why make double different from burst, when they are basically the same thing, one just fires extra bullet

[waxen pilot]

in insurgency yes aside from that basically no

[calm plover]

Cause... unique, and I like what I came up with. And afaik double is only available to the weaker support weapons that need some love.
Just briefly testing, the L86A1 and the MG36 has double, might be more weapons

[shadow bluff]

Ready or not

[shadow bluff]

The thing is, double is the same as burst. Burst doesn’t mean 3 round burst, it means multiple bullets from one trigger pull, with a limit. Unlike full auto which is multiple bullets in one pull with no limit. There are 2 round bursts, 3 round bursts, 4 round bursts, etc

I would just give burst slightly less recoil and leave it at that

Some guns should have different fire rates on burst

But not all

Semi auto fire rate should remain the same as full auto

[raven oriole]

So in total so far, only 2 games

[raven oriole]

This tbh

If you want to make burst good just make it have less recoil and make it have a faster fire rate in some cases

Like the AN94 hypedburst for example

Or if we wanted to be extra silly VP70 burst fire that can only be in burst fire if you slap in a stock on it

[calm plover]

Burst should definitely be the only way to trade with an opponent. It makes sense once the trigger is pulled that it shoots 3 bullets

[raven oriole]

Not really

Theres a reason why burst on some guns only fires 2 shots instead of 3

(Or in some cases burst fires 4)

[calm plover]

Which is?

[waxen pilot]

squad too. But there aren't many games where single bullets a still a thread over distance

[raven oriole]

Well it depends from gun to gun, but reasons vary usually from the wants and needs of a gun, such ammo preservation, user experience or how the gun was made

For example, vector has a 2 round burst mostly for ammo preservation purposes

At least in real life dumbing half a mag for one guy is not desirable when you could kill him in 1 or 2 shots

[vital beacon]

Stalker 2, and Crysis 1/warhead comes to mind

otherwise the Tiberon in warframe also comes to mind (has burst, full auto & semi)

[spare lagoon]

Tbh, I prefer fire modes not affect anything unless the gun was designed around it like an AN-94

I wouldn't be opposed to applying the first shot recoil at the end of a burst like BF4 does for burst guns specifically.

[shadow bluff]

That’s…. Not how burst works though.

[shadow bluff]

It’s not about what games have switching modes, plenty of games have this. It’s about what games it’s actually useful to use semi auto in

[calm plover]

Are you sure? Pretty sure right now if you click once in Burst mode it will shoot 3 bullets. And to buff that I suggest it does that even if the user dies mid-burst

[vital beacon]

stalker 2 wise it is down to durability consumption along with reducing the possibility to kill rather than down a enemy

crysis 1 wise it is mainly useful on the scar early on to manage ammo consumption (Scar is flat out better than the FY71 if memory serves, ammo however is limited early on (til assault you only get around 10 esh reloads if memory serves) and if you are willing to count it, tactical attachment for tranq dart

But yeah, most games you tend to just stay in full auto 95% of the time

[shadow bluff]

That’s not how it works though. You hold it down. Just like full auto but it has a limit.

[shadow bluff]

Do you try to down enemies in stalker 2?

Is that a thing?

[vital beacon]

one quest giver literally asks you to go find three guys and down them preferably, not kill

[shadow bluff]

Oh

I don’t have stalker 2

[vital beacon]

Otherwise it can help with relations if you end up fighting a faction

and fair

[shadow bluff]

Don’t feel like giving money to GSC

[vital beacon]

in terms of semi auto it is mainly important in games where ammo conversation, durability or such is a concern

[shadow bluff]

I think that’s so stupid

Durability being that fast

Full auto shouldn’t degrade it faster

[vital beacon]

depends on gun to be honest

been using the Fora & dnipro a deal and they feel like they don't decay much unless I start hitting anomalies face first

[shadow bluff]

What’s the dnipro

I know the fora

[vital beacon]

bullup rifle

[shadow bluff]

From the trilogy

[vital beacon]

best summary is take the fora & make it better

[shadow bluff]

Oh ok

[vital beacon]

thing is quite a smooth feeling weapon without many upgrades

But to the point

feels like shooting some guns don't break them fast

rather it is the anomalies & external damage

In terms of semi auto in various games

[calm plover]

I just tested it ingame, and when I click once on my mouse, then it shoots 3 shots

[vital beacon]

I think squad may also have a stake in this

[shadow bluff]

That’s not what I mean

In real life it’s not like that

Which is what I thought it should be

[vital beacon]

irl it is a limited full auto

generally

But anyhow I suppose a question is how do you make semi auto useful in BBR

since you are trading the full auto dps

for having to manually tap fire

mix in the previously stated changes to recoil

I gotta wonder

[raven oriole]

Unless semi straight up removes recoil auto is just better

Hell with auto you can just... tap it

Why bother pressing a key to switch modes when you can just click once for the same result

[spare lagoon]

some people use it because it makes it easier for them

Burst and semi in real life are there for the same reason pretty much. To not waste ammo and make it easier to control for average soldiers (can't accidentaily fire off 30 bullets if the gun doesn't let you).

Guns like the AN-94 have unique burst mechanisms, and I think that's where burst vs full auto would defo be a thing. I know BF4 makes full auto have less firerate than burst for the AN. Idk of any other weapons that have unique burst mechanics like that though tbh, might just need to be made up for the game . Getting an M16A4 varient that only has burst but has more controllable recoil during the burst (so all the recoil comes after it) might be pretty cool.

Perhaps burst in this game should always only fire after the recoil is reset. That way it can teach you the burst timing of the guns for full accuracy.

There could be a mechanic added where accuracy resets on guns faster the less bullets you burst with (although I think it kind of already does this technically since it's easier to fix your aim after one shot).

Burst could then be a way to always hit a certain accuracy threshold at range, but you could still hit it with full auto with enough skill.

I think something like that would make burst still useful at range when you want that full accuracy without working, but also give a bit of a skill curve to using it.

Kind of mirrors real life that way

TLDR: It'd be cool if guns reset faster the shorter they're fired for. Bursting could then be used as a tool for ease of use and still have a little bit of use as your skill gets higher because it'll always make your accuracy reset on the gun the same.

Obviously it kind of already works this way, but some tweaking I think could make this sort of system interesting. This game doesn't have noticeable spread increase, but that'd be the way I'd do it if it did.

Alternatively, if you wanted to be weird, you could have it so first shot kick uniquely makes some guns inaccurate if it's too high for a bullet or so after that first shot (first shot 100% accurate, second shot 90%, third shot 92%, 4th 98%, etc). Then burst might be a good way to consistently have a certain amount of accuracy.

These are just some ideas on how to maybe do it but still keep the gun mechanics the same across the different firemodes. Not just making burst more accurate than auto fire for arbitrary gameplay reasons (as in, being on burst lowers recoil 20%, etc), which I don't think fits this game.

[waxen pilot]

oh hell no

[spare lagoon]

yee, didn't say that one was a good idea

It already does that lol, with your gun bouncing higher than normal

It'd be a strange way to balance having like no normal recoil but having like 200% first shot recoil because of your attachments

I DO think it'd be neat to get some receiver customization that can make guns burst only in exchange for recoil reductions. That'd be cool.

Actually, I think that's all the depth we need now that I think about it. Just add receiver customization that makes burst and single shot the only mode you can use in exchange for stats.

[shadow bluff]

It’s not easier to fix your aim after one shot though. The recoil won’t reset until you let go if you use full auto, so you don’t have it jumping around as much in full auto

[charred hawk]

when will we get guys who know how to handle guns as characters