New stim gadget to compete with smoke launcher and c4

[flat bough]

Currently c4 and smoke launcher spam make certain maps feel terrible due to the fact that these gadgets are highly incentivized. C4 will get nerfed in the update but the disproportionate amount of destruction and disruption from these gadgets breaks maps like salhan and frugis. One way to combat this issue is to disincentivize smoke launcher and c4 use by providing a third gadget option of an equivalent influence level. I suggest adding a stim gadget that has 2 charges, allows the user to inject the stim while running and hipfiring, and heals 20 health a second for a total of 40 healing. By adding a competitive gadget to the pool, less people will run smokes and c4 and opt for stims instead. This will greatly increase playability on certain maps and make the gameplay more readable. Reducing the amount of chaos will help alleviate new player retention issues especially in the 254 player servers.

[atomic spade]

yeah, lets speed up players even more

surely that would lower the amount of chaos

[bold jewel]

Yeah no stims

Anyways, C4 and RPG are not only already getting destruction nerfs, rubble from buildings should also be more prominent (albeit on newer maps)

Judging by the devcast that showed said nerf in action, i think its safe to say that buildings would be going down far less frequently

Or at the very least, much slower

As for smokes, they are mostly aight

They dont pose the biggest issue really

[atomic spade]

in fact the issue with smokes is them not working

at least not consistently

[bold jewel]

Sometimes*

But yeah thats really their biggest issue

Cause you dont know if your smoke worked or not

[atomic spade]

a stim being a healing item is not a bad idea, but it should be a first aid thing that takes the place of a bandage or something.

def not something you can still shoot with with

medic only?

[surreal agate]

[hardy frost]

Like maybe an emergency self rez?

[bold jewel]

No

[hardy frost]

Please elaborate

I would like to know what unintended effects that idea could have so I can better know if I should continue to support it

[bold jewel]

Self rez in a game where every side of 127 can have it is obviously bad idea

[flat bough]

no speed boost only healing, if the stim isn't as influential as c4 and smoke launcher no one will pick it

[flat bough]

if you have ever played on na servers smoke spam is a big problem on a lot of maps

[bold jewel]

I almost exclusively play NA servers

Aint that bad

[flat bough]

gonna be a disagree from me

smoke spam breaks maps like frugis and salhan

even tensa

[atomic spade]

healing while able to shoot is a stupid idea

and smoke spam does not break maps.

[atomic spade]

a faster use bandage with healing over time instead of a burst of 50. 30 or 40 health max

could work, but only as a replacement for first aid (which you can already use while sprinting)

but not able to shoot while using it.

[flat bough]

think hipfire only is a fine compromise

could even have recoil multiplier

[atomic spade]

hipefire is accurate as shit

healing while able to engage will just be overpowered

[flat bough]

if u compare the impact of optimal smoke and c4 usage

i think the power level is about the same

[atomic spade]

while hipfire ain't going to win at distances beyond 30 meters, it will work just fine in CQB

smoke? fuck no

and c4 is getting nerfed.

[flat bough]

the difference is that smoke and c4 fundamentally change how certain maps are played

[atomic spade]

not really lol

I don't know who you have been playing with, but c4 is not new and in fact has been used the same way since launch.

and smoke does not work consistently enough to say its powerful.

[flat bough]

c4 being able to break walls and create new avenues is already pretty powerful the big aoe was what made it completely broken

[bold jewel]

Tbh only way i see stim being viable but not broken is if regened to full health, over a certain period of time, but you cant shoot, you can walk and if you take any form of damage, your stim is wasted and the healing stops

[flat bough]

so even tho its nerfed it still a high impact gadget

[flat bough]

its not how powerful it is even if there are issues with the smoke, its how it affects overall map gameplay. For example on frugis smoke spam can make building fights completely unreadable

[atomic spade]

less healing than bandage, while not doing it instantly after you finish using it is already worse than bandage, the only difference is that it would have a faster use.

[atomic spade]

if c4 was new, you would have an argument

but it isn't.

[flat bough]

no one will pick stim if it is this weak

[flat bough]

wdym why does it matter if it is new or not?

[atomic spade]

frugis smoke spam is rare. and even then effects like one fight.

you don't like dealing with it, go elsewhere.

or just shoot through it

[bold jewel]

Bandage is already hella fast so whats the point in stim then

[atomic spade]

because maps are built around being able to blow shit up with c4

[bold jewel]

At least give me ability to fully regen in say 4-5 second if in going to use it

[flat bough]

with bandage u have to commit to a medium length animation for a 50 damage heal, stim heals u over time

[atomic spade]

all depends on play style.

half the time of using the bandage and having your gun up would be pretty good upclose.

[flat bough]

theyre not take salhan for example

[atomic spade]

yeah, that was.

nobody is changing how they play because of c4 lol

[flat bough]

it still is the c point on 127 conquest is unplayable when all the buildings are destroyed

[atomic spade]

thats a destruction issue

not a c4 one.

plenty of ways to destroy buildings.

[flat bough]

when you only have 2 real options between smoke and c4 and both impact the map flow in a fundamental game u get less readability overall

pretty hard to argue with that i feel

[bold jewel]

Idk it still doesnt sound like it is viable

But whatever

[atomic spade]

also smoke and c4 are not even in the same slot

[flat bough]

having a stim that is powerful enough to compete with c4 and smoke in terms of impact will dilute the effect

[atomic spade]

a stim would at best be first aid

[flat bough]

talking about smoke launcher

[atomic spade]

all 3 of those are in different slots

ah ok, so the thing even LESS people use

[bold jewel]

Smoke launcher does share the same slot with c4

[atomic spade]

I figured he was talkign about the smoke people actually used in the grenade slot

that's where the spam comes from

not the GL

[flat bough]

smoke grenades are ok imo because they compete with regular grenades

and grenade spam is also a big problem on certain maps

[bold jewel]

The GL aint too shabby imo, but i prefer C4

[atomic spade]

GL ain't bad

[flat bough]

the problem with smoke launcher is that u can have disproportionate impact as a single person on the whole map

[atomic spade]

but not many pick it over the lethal

[flat bough]

and with c4 nerfs coming its gonna be even more incentivized

[atomic spade]

you do know you can throw smoke nearly as far as you would ever want to launch it with the GL

[flat bough]

yea but u get 8 shots with launcher

[atomic spade]

like, I don't know anybody who is sniping peaople with smoke

[flat bough]

and the smokes bloom instantly on impact, theres a delay with thrown smokes

[atomic spade]

especially with its reload

the delay is from when you throw it

not impact

[flat bough]

also i think gl smokes last longer

[atomic spade]

it does not

smae exact time

[bold jewel]

Not really

Gl range is pretty nuts

[atomic spade]

want to

like if you aim up you can go further

but that's not exactly gonna help you

either you land it in front of you, or in front of your enemy

and in front of your enemy doesn't cover alot of angles unless you hit it in front of a sniper

[bold jewel]

Like i said, GL aint too shabby
You get 9 of em, instantly pop with the drawback of being slower

[flat bough]

if u land 2 smokes in a building on a frugis that entire building fight is unplayable

and ppl just spam it

[bold jewel]

Matter of preference, but i still use c4 and everything else

[atomic spade]

yeah, its not bad at all. but its still not that popular

[atomic spade]

there are several buildings

and with how smoke works, it just turns into CQB

[bold jewel]

Also i dont think this is a bad thing

[atomic spade]

which... it already was

[bold jewel]

C4 is already meta as shit

Hell calling it meta is an understatement

[atomic spade]

was continuing my statement not replying it to you

[flat bough]

thats true but there are key buildings that dictate the flow of the fight that always get spammed. Also the "cqb" gameplay is dogshit when u cant see anything cuz the entire building is smoked

[bold jewel]

Ik im going on my own seperate tangent silly

[atomic spade]

you can see most of a room while its smoked.

room to room

highspeed players have no issue with it, cause sprint and hipfire wins those engagments 9 times out of 10

you not being able to adapt to a slight inconvenience says more about you than the smoke.

[dim lagoon]

wait this is just combat cocaine again

fuck yeah!

[atomic spade]

nah

no speed buff

[dim lagoon]

aw.

[flat bough]

this isnt true, its also not true that u have good visiblity in a room with smoke, the smoke spam decreases readability idk how u can disagree with that

[bold jewel]

Combat amphetamines like in the good ol' days

[atomic spade]

because smoke is a slight inconvenience in cqb because of how it works. you can abuse the fact its a 2d sprite pretty easily lol

if you are in the smoke, just mopve a little to the side of its center and you can see within the whole radius of smoke

[bold jewel]

Thing about smoke is that, when it works, it both a positive and a detriment to its user

Enemies cant see you, but you cant see the enemies as well

Its a matter of who outplays their outplaying in that scenario

[surreal agate]

Gl being able to shoot while sprinting is pretty funny

[bold jewel]

Oh ya true

[finite verge]

Technically it can but as mentioned its because of smokes being client side and sometimes not showing for people

Simple fix would make it less of a “problem”

Also update nade launcher smoke so its not using the old one

That being said I agree having a large amount in the reserve is just as stupid and should be lowered to a more reasonable amount across the board. I get its a non lethal but there shouldn’t be any reason why people need that many gl smoke nades considering you can also resupply them.

[atomic spade]

it is rarely the GL smoke that causes that, the thrown smokes however...