#Total Vehicle Overhaul - Suggestions (21/11/2024)

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woven gulch
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Part 1 - Introduction

Hello, I have broken this down into several parts due to the word count limit. I enjoy the game and mostly play in a support role for vehicles (driver/gunner/spotter) and believe that like a lot of games, vehicles are normally nerfed to the point of being almost pointless. This game is currently no different. But rather than just moan about it, I have played and carefully generated this feedback by dedicating 5 games to each vehicle type, excluding the boats and quad bikes. This led to a total of 35 games in a row dedicated to just vehicles.

To get the average survival time per vehicle, I used a stop watch (yes I am sad) while in vehicle and started it from take off/departing the base and stopped the timer as soon as we were destroyed. I tried to use the same vehicle at least 5 times within each game where possible. Different vehicles take longer to respawn and sometimes other players entered the vehicles before me, but I did manage to carry over a game or two so I could take the average on going out 5 times in a tank.

I've not written this to go after a certain player type, but with the want to drastically improve the game, especially for us vehicle crew players. I have also played many rounds within an infantry based anti-vehicle role so I can appreciate both sides.

I get the issue of balance, but as it stands here are my key findings:

• 5 games in an armed Humvee/Gas Tigr with full team and alone - Average life span of 1 minute and 34 seconds
• 5 games in a BTR-82/LAV-25A1 with full team - Average life span of 1 minute and 23 seconds
• 5 games in a M1 Abrams/T90A with full crew (no comms) - Average life span of 3 minute and 18 seconds
• 5 games in a KA60/Blackhawk with full crew (no comms) - Average life span of 3 minute and 01 seconds
• 5 games in an armed Littlebird/Hermitk with full crew (no comms) - Average life span of 2 minute and 21 seconds
• 5 games in a M1 Abrams/T90A on my own - Average life span of 1 minute and 05 seconds

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Part 2 - Introduction

These findings indicate a few things to me.

• That working with a crew raises survivability which should not be surprising - and thus this should be encouraged.
• That a crew who know each other and have worked with each other before - will also raise survivability.
• That overall - the rates of survivability - even with a good crew- are poor and surely this is not intentional by design? The averages would be even worse if I started the stop watch from the moment we leave the safe zone, rather than as soon as a vehicle is entered.
• That vehicles are not really that threatening due to their lack of armour and poor weapon damage/suppression.
• That there is surely room for improvement to make these vehicles both more fun to play, realistic and threatening - while retaining an element of balance.
• That lone wolfing (going out solo in a tank/APC etc.) should be discouraged as it is a clear waste of resources and in most cases a suicide mission. It also takes a vehicle away from any budding vehicle crews waiting in the wings for a vehicle.
• That all vehicles are essentially quad bikes with different passenger capacity's and are mostly just used as taxi's.

The averages in part 1 will of course vary according to multiple factors and each set did have a "worst" and "best score - for the sake of brevity, I only include the average. Based on the above, I have made the following suggestions to help improve the experience for us vehicle crewmen and to make fighting vehicle's more of a challenge to infantry players. Some of these may seem a bit controversial and I totally understand that it is impossible to please everyone and that many are resistant to change - that is natural, but I believe some small changes could make the game more appealing overall and add some much needed variety to combat situations, while allowing vehicles to be used more inline with their intended real life purposes.

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Part 3 - Humvee Feedback

The Humvee issued to the US military post 1996 were generally armoured, especially after being proven vulnerable to IED's. Snipers (and even just infantry) in game can wipe out an entire crew in seconds with them having no discernible armour and even its weaponry is like a glorified pea shooter which adds no suppressive value and has a very low damage output.

As it currently stands - they do not seem to have windows at all either with rounds going straight through the cab. It seems that buildings do not have glass too, and the only glass visible in the game is on the flyable units and from the numerous civi vehicles dotted about which all appear to have tinted glass which appears to be impervious to small arms fire and even an RPG explosion with the glass remaining intact despite the vehicle itself being changed to the "destroyed" model after impact.

Suggestions for improvements:

• Add some basic armour bonus to those inside it.
• Add bullet resistant glass that will break after a few shots.
• Increase damage from weapons - it is very strange that an infantryman can take 4-5 shots from a 50. cal weapon...IRL you are toast by one round merely clipping you.

Suggestions to maintain balance if suggestions are implemented:
• Make the Humvee slightly heavier and slower to drive.
• Add ammo capacity that will require resupply.
• Add overheat possibility to any mounted weapon.
• Add possibility of weapon jam that will require the operator to hold a key to clear it.

If protective glass could be added, for anyone inside, it would be good if signs of the glass being hit could be visualised in some way with sound of glass shattering added when it is destroyed. Adding these changes would improve realism, increase the Humvee's practical use and not impede balance. Perhaps improving their capabilities would mean they are treated less like a disposable taxi, and more like a useful infantry support vehicle as per their intended use.

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Part 4 - Gaz STS Tigr Feedback

All feedback about the Humvee can be said for the Tigr. The only things other than that would be to change the weapon models to resemble their real world Russian counterparts as currently it just uses the same weapons as the Humvee.

Suggestions for improvements:

• Model an Arbalet DM Remote control turret as the CROWS equiv.
• Model a KORD 12.7x108mm machine gun as the Browning's equivalent.
• Add a "duck" function for gunners on both the Humvee and Tigr.

There is some merit of adding more differences between US and Russian kit too. As it stands, both sides vehicles are identical in handling and weapon damage output. For now, I am concentrating less on that and more on getting some of the symmetrical elements improved upon.

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Part 5 - BTR-82/LAV-25A1 & M1 Abrams/T90A Feedback

APC's should be not only able to carry infantry into areas of conflict, but also be able to support the infantry as they push up.

Suggestions for seat improvements:

The seats should be changed completely to help foster team work and for the vehicles to perform more akin to their real work counterparts:

• Seat 1 - Driver - he will concentrate on this alone.
• Seat 2 - Dedicated Gunner seat for the main cannon/coaxial machine gun.
• Seat 3 - Tactical Commander seat with access to ping turret, CROWS machine gun and smoke dispenser.

All of the other APC seats will be for passengers. This would add to their overall realism, lead to better team building (only vehicle crews will probably get this where we end up adding each other on steam after a good game of multicrewing a vehicle together) and hopefully lead to them being used more appropriately. It is madness that the driver currently controls the main cannon because it encourages lone usage and is not realistic.

General suggestions for improvements:

• Improving the armour so it can take at least 3 RPG hits.
• Add an internal driving view for the driver
• Allow all crew members to pop head out of hatch for a better but more dangerous view.
• Add toggleable lights for the driver.
• Allow troops to be able to sit on the outside of the vehicle (at their own peril!).
• Increase damage output of weapons.
• Add better pings for commander 1 for Observe, 2 for Enemy Vehicle and 3 for Enemy Infantry.

Suggestions to maintain balance if suggestions are implemented:

• Lower the amount of troops APC's can carry to 6 (which is closer to their real world counterparts).
• Lower their speed slightly (or at least its acceleration).
• Make weapons camera view a bit more claustrophobic.
• Add vulnerable armour spots (side and rear).
• Add weapon overheat, resupply and jamming functions.

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Part 6 - KA60/Blackhawk Feedback

The KA60 irl has never been mounted with miniguns (that we know of), but lets say for now we keep them both with the same side armament. It would be good to perhaps allow for some additional improvements.

Suggestions for seat improvements:

• Seat 1 - Pilot will have access to a missile jammer.
• Seat 2 - Co-pilot with access to FLIR camera (for spotting) and designating/using 2 Laser Guided missiles
• Seat 3 - Mini Gunner Port
• Seat 4 - Mini Gunner Starboard
• Plus 11 passenger seats (reduction of 1 seat for realism and balance)

I know that spotting using the camera would be difficult unless the copilot is in direct communication with the pilot, but the incentive would be there due to the use of LG Missiles that would require the pilot to provide a steady platform while the co-pilot finds and launces payload at target. The helicopter would have to RTB to resupply missiles after each use.

General suggestions for improvements:

• Add Co-pilot FLIR camera (for spotting) and designating/using 2 Laser Guided missiles
• Add clear seat markers to all vehicles e.g "F1 Pilot", "F2 Co-Pilot", "F3 Port Side Gunner" etc.
• Increase power of miniguns - the M134 is a 7.62 beast spitting out 50 rounds a second...no infantryman will survive even being clipped by one and currently it takes about 100 rounds to kill someone (if we are saying that the in game version is spitting out 50 rounds a second)

Suggestions to maintain balance if suggestions are implemented:

• Remove 1 passenger seat.
• Introduce an AA unit - perhaps some kind of Humvee/Tigr variant.
• Add weapon overheat, resupply and jamming functions.

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Part 7 - Littlebird/Hermit Feedback

These are basically exactly the same as the KA60/Blackhawk and it may be another missed opportunity to add some variety.

Suggestions for seat improvements:

• Seat 1 - Pilot - access to 16 rockets (fire and forget) and chaff dispenser
• Seat 2 - Co-pilot with access to FLIR camera (for spotting) and designating/using 2 Laser Guided missiles
• Plus 6 passenger seats

Suggestions to maintain balance if suggestions are implemented:

• Remove 2 passenger seats.
• As mentioned above - Introduce an AA unit - perhaps some kind of Humvee/Tigr variant.
• Add weapon overheat, resupply and jamming functions.

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Part 8 - Additional General Suggestions

• Introduce an Artillery unit - these should be self propelled guns that are slow and reliant on grid references being fed to them in order to fire accurately from recon units and co-pilots using FLIR. No grid reference - no accurate fire. Each arty unit has 2 seats, a driver (with access to a CROWS machine gun) and a gunner who operates a "computer" - basically the gunners UI looks like a mini map with grids over it with a numbered pad that can input grid references and lock them into the target computer. There will be no "live" player markers on the map and it is reliant solely on what is being fed back to the vehicle from other squads. The more organised the team - the better the effect.

• Remove the auto heal/auto resupply nodes at base spawn - repairing vehicles is the job of an engineer and they even have the tool to do so. To resupply, a player will have to get out, walk up to a crate and hold e to pick up ammo and then ferry it over to the tank once or twice. This will add in some more balance to compensate for above suggestions too because the vehicle will be out of the fight for longer when it RTB's to repair.

• Get rid of the unarmed Humvee/Tigr and replace it with an AA variant that holds 4 AA missiles.

• Give vehicle Commander/Copilot (not the driver or pilot) the ability to lock/unlock the vehicle. That way if you do find a good crew and one of you jumps out to fix the vehicle, someone else not in the crew cannot just hop in to that seat, but will automatically go into a passenger seat only.

• Add toggleable lights to all vehicles that can be switched on and off by the driver.

As for weapons - cannons and 50 cals are just too weak. Vehicles really are not that much of a threat. How can anyone get shot with a 50 cal machine gun 4 times and survive? For this reason - please add a proper hardcore mode to community and official servers.

Thank you for reading!
Cheers

spiral bison
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  • vehicle mg dmg is bugged rn so some ppl die in 2 while other still life after 20 shots
  • vehicles have an ammo cap
  • weapon jam is just annoying and doesn't offer much
  • saying the humvee is similar to the tiger is weird. the humvee is way way worse
  • splitting apc in gunner and driver won't really work in a game like bbr. Why would anyone drive it for a random to shoot?
  • lower their speed and acceleration??? they already drive like shit
  • they have vulnerable armor spots already
  • missile helis won't come as said by oki, also handheld / aa guided missile should never be in a game like this which means there is no reason for a jammer
  • comparing the little bird to the blackhawk is also weird
  • unarmed tiger and humvees are for transportation, not every vehicle in the game needs weapoms
thorn ember
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Few other things to add to this:

  • vehicle damage can be kinda bugged yeah, hell sometimes your shots dont even do any damage up close
  • humvees and gastigers are techically comparable, they do have the exact same stats, but like haro said, humvees are worse for multiple reasons (humvee has a bigger model, bigger weakpoints, bigger windows etc.)
  • only gripe in terms of car stats are that for some reason gun variants have more health than transport ones for reasons ig
  • ground and water vehicle handling is atrocious to put it mildly: vehicles cant turn for shit, their speed sucks, their physics suck (vehicles fall extremetly slowly, get put to a halt if they hit a sandbag and have no weight), they get stuck in the most random ass places and the maps have random ass bumps that make it worse (seriously why the hell do smaller bridges have small bumps on them???)
  • Littlebird is fine for the most part, it just takes skill and practice to use (i do think lb minigun shouldnt be the only one that doesnt overheat, either make em all overheat or make none do it)
  • copilot should get a role of sorts for sure
  • speaking of helis, reason they have glass is cause glass is meant to lower damage to the pilot by like 50%, but its bugged
  • in general damage towards vehicles should absolutely be tweaked (mfw apc cant take 2 heats and tank shell deals pitiful damage to blackhawk)
  • and no for the love of god dont remove repair stations from base, its already hard enough finding an engineer with a repair tool (oki give back repair tool xp pls)
woven gulch
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Fair points - cheers lads! 🙂

misty thunder
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Tldr. I'm happy or sad for you. I gave a check

wild cloak
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I think this post has a lot of good points being made, but I feel as there is too much expectation for realism to be added to the vehicles. Down the line its expected this is one of the major changes that will be made. But I cannot agree with some of the things you're asking for. I do believe the vehicles can be more tanky due to the player count, but will have to be adjusted based on how explosives work at the time. Windows for sure should be added. The physics needs a total overhaul and are needed to navigate the map much more effectively. The weapons damage may need tweaking, but i think the damage for most of them are fair. A lot of people enjoy vehicles and I think if they were better over all they would be more prominent. I just don't want there to be too much presense as then the entire game mode shifts to a vehicle destroyer game, and thats what you have with Battlefeild 2042 at this point. Where you're basically being told if you dont want to play engineer and get your kills via vehicles go play a different game mode. At any given time in a conquest match in that game, over 40% of its players pick the engineer class.

woven gulch
wild cloak
# woven gulch Fair enough mate. We all have ideas of how the game should be. Maybe a "milsim" ...

I think there is a place for a dedicated milsim mode within battlebit. But i think it'll be something in the future that will be looked at, since most players are looking for an arcade play style when it comes to this game. It would be in their best intrest to continue to cater to those and bring in more players that then may want to try out a mode like that. Then, depending on the consensus, a milsim mode be made. TLDR, we just need players to think about doing something like that.

I would wait out and play something else in the meantime, and once the update comes out, and hopefully players pool back in. The community servers may suffice until a dedicated mode comes out for it.

glossy delta
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You had me until humvee turret buffs

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I’m sorry but no, there are too many humvees placed everywhere and we don’t need more camper metas

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Also as others have said heli missles won’t be added, + no need for missle jammer, just don’t add easy mode lock on cheese eShrug (same with AA in general, APCs can tail rotor them, tanks can essentially one/two shot them, also a few guys with LMGs/Humvees can just focus fire them.)

Artillery is confirmed to not be added at this time as well (no, balance wise I don’t think mortars are a good alternative either, would just promote camping in safezone)

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obligatory “realism should NOT determine balance” because I see that being mentioned as a balance reason too.

Otherwise I have same thoughts as steve, well intentioned, just.. missing the mark in some areas because simply putting some things in and buffing others for the sake of “realism” often just makes the user experience more frustrating than fun.

Also to add on to Markiplier and Haro’s points: explosives in general are inconsistent and buggy as hell because sometimes buildings just eat a lot of that “damage” you were intending to use on a specific target instead, even at point blank directly aiming at the enemy (made worse by the lovely explosive cap bandage solution that was put in place instead of better individual explosive balance! aha) so I feel that just making explosives less buggy/inconsistent + doing individual balance for them in place of the obviously banadged in global explosive damage cap would in turn also make them more “fair” to fight against.

spiral bison
thorn ember
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The m2 turrent can

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M2 turret is ass

spiral bison
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ye m2 sucks

tidal girder
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it needs a damn stabilizer and actually be attached to the vehicle, all turrets being useless unless stopped is still not a good thing.

flat jetty
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M2 was added 4 years ago and hasn't been touched since

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It needs a ammo counter

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And a fucking iron sight

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Maybe with one of these

image0.jpg
thorn ember
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Bruh im taking anything at this point just make it less shit

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And for the love of god make car health pools actually consistent

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Why do 7m variants have more health

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Shit dont make sense

flat jetty
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Wait 7m has more heath than m2?

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Wtf

thorn ember
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One sec lemme pull out the sheet rq

thorn ember
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Idk why cars just dont have a single standard health pool

sly island
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Apc's gun is already shitty, no need to add a jam or something like this. It needs a great improvement of damage, magasine capacity, major improvement of accuracy and remove this shitty scope TV effect what makes it incredibly annoying and painful to play too.

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You havent played apc enough to judge it.

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Also we need FLIR sight for tanks

static maple
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Little Choper with damn minigun its hard to kill with the damn MG please buff the MG
Its feel anoying when people know how to fly but we can't even give damage to them

Like you need lot of bullet to shoot down little coper

thorn ember
static maple
thorn ember
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Or aim at pilot

static maple
flat jetty
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Or make the enemy pilot crash into a tower

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No wasted ammunition

thorn ember
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How does one do this

flat jetty
flat jetty
thorn ember
wintry gulch
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Yoooo

simple vale
static maple
young holly
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The problem with the Humvees is how absurdly wide it is, just like irl. What somewhat makes up for that coming from someone who has 3600 road kills is u can't be shot out from the back thanks to no rear windows.

The gas tiger is a lot better but if u don't manage to run over them they can't easily shoot you in the back.

Also both of them can be one tapped by a heat which makes them tactically pretty unusable.

By far the biggest issue with them is whenever u hit a bump and get any amount of air they are completely uncontrolled, thanks to the extremely rough terrain in these maps they could greatly benefit from some air control.

wild cloak
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The steering also will have to be reworked so that it doesn't get harder to steer as your velocity increases. With added survivability, and working suspension. It would put the vehicles in a nice spot to see if they need further balancing.

whole otter
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But they can transport infantry