Nerf C4 damage to armored vehicles

[rain badger]

Want to make armour viable? Make it so C4 doesn't delete them instantly.

"We don't want guided weapons it would make armour impossible at 254 players"

Is perfectly fine with drone C4

Oki plz.

We have heat, we have tandem, let C4 do something but not everything.

[unkempt glade]

Probably said already, but agreed regardless

[lilac arch]

Universally in regards to c4: this is what people most agree with, myself included (especially when compared to other ideas of nerfing it)

AT mines exist anyways

[worn cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/jojo-bizar-adventure-jotaro-kujo-gif-22968904

[gloomy creek]

I'm not sure what exactly the damage nerf is needed, but something definitely needs to be done with c4 and drones

[worn cedar]

because c4 is absolutely busted against armored vehicles for no good reason apart from "boohoo vehicles too stronk" (far from it) and it's also not realistic but that's not too important

[gloomy creek]

I understand, but throwing five c4 pieces instead of three doesn’t look like a big deal

Although this will make one-shots with drones impossible

[unkempt glade]

It should take like a lot of c4 to bust a tank for example

Idk 7-8

[gloomy creek]

It sounds like no one will agree to this and everyone will panic. But we'll see

[unkempt glade]

I will cause chaos

Being serious it should take a lot more c4 against tanks and apcs

Tanks should take 7-8 c4 on the weak points to be destroyed

That way, only solo engineers with specific backpack and belt will be able to destroy them if all c4 land on the weak spots

And a tiny bit of team effort too

Apcs should take a tad less to be destroyed

[rain badger]

It should take more C4 than 1 person can carry to take out armor

And yea, only be effective against the rear of the vehicle or something

[rich turtle]

yeah

nerfing c4 damage to tanks and such would make anti vehicle grenades more viable

cause those should be the most effective against tanks close up, not c4

[rain badger]

I completely forgot about anti-vehicle grenades

Unsure if I've ever seen one used

[worn cedar]

they get used against infantry more often than they get used against vehicles xD

[unkempt glade]

Antivehicle nades are kinda neat

Good for finishing off vehicles that are about to blow up

Especially apcs

[worn cedar]

i've seen them fly towards me (inf) or the enemy (inf) more often than vehicles lmao

[rich turtle]

Probably because they are completely outclased by c4

They do less damage, and you get less of them

Ig they can be resupplied?

But thats about it

They are pretty bad

[rain badger]

Slower to throw too right?

[rich turtle]

yep

[rain badger]

I'd be happy to see those two-shot tanks, especially if they were engineer/assault only

Give a non-engineer class a way to handle vehicles

[worn cedar]

fuck no not to assault

[worn cedar]

c4 ._.

[unkempt glade]

You can literally get like 6 of them wdym less

Yeah damage aint great but you only really use them for finishing off vehicles

[lilac arch]

Assault already has a bunch, especially with the passives. Think they could go without it

[unkempt glade]

Agreed

Engie should prolly stay as the dedicated vehicle destroyed/repairman (tho he should be a better repairman)

[lilac arch]

I mean engi still would be good at it if repair XP (the main incentive to repair) wasn’t nerfed to the ground

To some extent this also goes for healing with medkit too

[unkempt glade]

Yep

[lilac arch]

(Even putting aside the obvious “medkit wasn’t updated to keep up with new health values making it pointless to drop and situatonal to use outside of chip damage” stuff. That’s just the cherry on top imo)

[unkempt glade]

Maybe a hot take but exp earned from kills should be lowered a tad or the heal, repair and resupply exp to get hella buffed

[lilac arch]

I mean I think more XP for stuff is good anyways

We cant even argue “xp farm” cause weekly challenges being broken means most people who wanted P10 likely have it by now due to how much XP they got from it being bugged

[unkempt glade]

Id gotten it by now if i wasnt playing other stuff ngl

[lilac arch]

Im choosing to stay P1 personally

[unkempt glade]

I mean ive reached my main goal for the next update pretty much

Get enough prestiges for gopnik and top gun jacket

I will be dripping

[rain badger]

Engi already has RPG, why they need grenades also?

[worn cedar]

because anti vehicle class

no need to buff assault

[rain badger]

I mean make them an option but if C4 does get rightfully nerfed against armor, having another class that can (dangerously) engage armor sort of with disadvantages is not terrible

Gotta be close and accurate, feels like something the jack-of-all-trades assault class should have as an option

[worn cedar]

💀

fuck no

[unkempt glade]

Assault already IS the jack of all trades

[rain badger]

Ok 😉

Yea exactly

Having only a single class be able to threaten vehicles seems a little too far the other way, maybe not 2-shot with grenades but you get what I mean

Basically a short range HEAT you have to throw and hope it's accurate, seems like something assault would use 🤷‍♂️

[verbal falcon]

HEAT grenades could be a different option (the AV we have now is just glorified concussion)

[thick vessel]

AV nades are op ngl

they were useless when they were normal nades

but now they explode on impact

[thick vessel]

i think the opposite

[unkempt glade]

I usually hit first with rpg before using AV nades

But ya you get a lotta value out of them if you use something before throwing them

Or after

But usually with something

[thick vessel]

i sometimes do that, but if I trow a nade they are usually confused of what actually hit them, after i just ambush them with rpg

element of surprise

[unkempt glade]

Fair

[rain badger]

They are simply outclassed by C4

[thick vessel]

but you can have both c4 and av nades so like

[rain badger]

Why take two things for the same purpose tho 🤷‍♂️

[unkempt glade]

Its literally more explosives

[thick vessel]

more ammo

[unkempt glade]

I run rpg, c4 and antinades on engie in pretty much every mode that has vehicles

Its busted

[thick vessel]

you can trow nades further + they explode on impact + you don't have to switch to c4 and then back to rpg

[unkempt glade]

I got some cheeky kills by throwing them down the path of fleeing vehicles

The explosion still deals damage

[lilac arch]

Engi also doubles as a demolition class so with that in mind bringing max explosives to tear down buildings makes sense

(Rip old AV mine building strat)

[proud parcel]

It legit takes 2 c4 to remove everything in bf4. Why would devs want to nerf it to ~7 c4 to destroy a tank? This looks like copium

[unkempt glade]

Unlike bf4, vehicles are made of cardboard, duct tape and prayers in this game

And the options that are meant for vehicle destruction already exist or in this one case is objectively shit (AV mines)

[rain badger]

248 players

2 tanks

[verbal falcon]

also the fact that in BF the range of c4 was like 6 meters max.

that c4 was also alot larger than the little lock-breachers we are using

[proud parcel]

Welcome to interesting world of 248 players balance where any solo tactic can be countered hard as fuch(especially on something special, like vehicle). Now imagine when there's only 32 people on big map against op tank that needs A LOT of c4 to destroy

[proud parcel]

Why are you bringing that up? You think that making c4 bigger in BBR will make it more balanced?

[proud parcel]

In bf4 we also had other AV options

[proud parcel]

Increase vehicle amount in 248 mode?

[unkempt glade]

Ngl it sounds like you havent seen just how weak vehicles are in this game

A single player probably shouldnt be able to easily solo a literal tank

[proud parcel]

So your point is to increase armor or hp

[unkempt glade]

There are a lot of things that many have suggested for vehicle buffs

[proud parcel]

Was ez in bf4, nobody was making argue cuz of it

[proud parcel]

Then just buff vehicles, can't see any point in your c4 topic

The only anti-c4 thing that I agree is that it shouldn't be all class

And time before activation should be increased

That's pretty much it

[unkempt glade]

And like i said, unlike bf4 vehicles could actually fight back and not immediatelly die

[unkempt glade]

Did suggest this one
Not many liked it

[proud parcel]

Smart player could easily take down a tank

[proud parcel]

So people don't need these changes

They're ok with current state

(aka make a vote in actual game, like in main menu, not on the discord server bruh)

[proud parcel]

That's a message for devs, not for you personally

[unkempt glade]

Problem in bbr specifically is that a dumbass can take out a tank

Or ever more easily an apc

[proud parcel]

That means that either tank guy is complete dumbass or you need to buff vehicles

Again

Not AV stuff

But vehicles

Pretty much the end of the topic

[unkempt glade]

Yeah it really sounds like you havent played in a tank or apc once in bbr

[proud parcel]

So you think that vehicles shouldn't be buffed?

Ok, let it stay in current state

[unkempt glade]

What

[proud parcel]

I said that vehicles should be buffed, you replied that I don't know shit(aka disagree)

[unkempt glade]

Im saying that you dont know what you are talking about because every vehicle main i spoke to would greatly disagree with you on that

[proud parcel]

that vehicles should get buffed?

[unkempt glade]

No

[proud parcel]

yes

[unkempt glade]

Man you need to brush up on your english

[proud parcel]

not my native, so I don't really care if you can't read xd

also I didn't do any mistakes here

you legit disagreed on what I said lol

why bringing up the language now

C4 is not the reason why vehicles are bad. So nerfing it won't do a thing. The end

[unkempt glade]

Let me make it clear then to avoid further confusion
Vehicles should be buffed by, among other things, greatly nerfing damage that c4 can do to vehicles
The part about me saying that you clearly dont use vehicles refers to the fact that you genuently have no idea just how weak vehicles are, especially apcs and tanks

[proud parcel]

just buff them

still no reason to nerf c4 of all things

[unkempt glade]

Nerfing c4 damage indiredctly buffs them

It shouldnt take 2-4 c4 to destroy an objectively heavily armored vehicle

[proud parcel]

nobody was arguing in bf4 even when it was 2 c4 for 1 tank

because c4 was class locked

[thick vessel]

They should also improve vehicle v vehicle fighting
Apc gameplay is 50% ballerina spinning

[proud parcel]

true

[unkempt glade]

Well class lock isnt happening anytime soon

[proud parcel]

so people will start shooting rpgs at point blank instead?

[proud parcel]

Well c4 nerf isnt happening anytime soon then

https://tenor.com/view/city-hunter-ryo-saeba-shrug-i-dont-know-i-dont-care-gif-14623021

[hollow mural]

Unless

[proud parcel]

Unless

[hollow mural]

The winds of change are upon us

[unkempt glade]

Rpgs are somewhat balanced, because there is at least a delay and a sound cue when you fire it
Tho some still deal borked amounts of damage to vehicles

[proud parcel]

The winds of change can't move the update towards us

for some reason

[unkempt glade]

And as of speaking c4 got none of that

[proud parcel]

but it's ranged

so it's more powerful

[unkempt glade]

Yeah but you cant spam all 6 of them at the same time to instantly destroy one

[proud parcel]

you still need to run towards a tank to deal with it, while the tank guy can kill you

but with rpg you can quickly shoot and run in cover

and tank can just drive away on seeing somebody running towards it

like every bf4 player were doing lol

[unkempt glade]

You are in first person tho, meaning vision is greatly reduced + you cant turn around easily and there are no proper sound cues when c4 is thrown

And ive already mentioned thag c4 deals too much damage

C4 kills tanks faster than anything else in this game

[proud parcel]

so you can add sounds for c4 or make tank drivers more crazy on checking their aroundings

[proud parcel]

what's the difference between 3 and 10 c4s when c4 guy is already on your tank lol

[unkempt glade]

You cant carry 10 c4

Thats the difference

[proud parcel]

that was a overestimation bruh

10 is bad af balance

but if a person can't carry c4s for even 1 tank then there's no point on equipping it

aka bad balance

[unkempt glade]

C4 has plenty of uses outside of vehicle destruction

[proud parcel]

c4 is mainly AV thing, use logic

it's legit made for it

[unkempt glade]

It does too many things too well, and removing one from being broken wont hurt it

[unkempt glade]

Its not

[proud parcel]

it will kill weapon

[unkempt glade]

People use it already a lot to destroy walls and kill people

And with vehicles its too much

[proud parcel]

walls? Hammer. Kill people? Grenades and default weapons

vehicles just need a rebalance and that's pretty much it

[unkempt glade]

My guy c4 is a literal breaching charge for buildings

[proud parcel]

not in games

[unkempt glade]

And?

[proud parcel]

we're speaking about the games

that's 'and'

[unkempt glade]

It doesnt mean we cant nerf its damage to vehicles still

It is a game after all

Its still gonna be good against walls and people

Just not vehicles

If you want to destroy vehicles use something else

[proud parcel]

All you need is vehicles buff, more aware drivers(aka rebalance of view) and that's literally it

you sound like you're the vehicles main guy and you just want to kill AV weapon and it's a reason why you saying that

[unkempt glade]

Yes and nerfing c4 is an indirect buff

[proud parcel]

you don't even thinking about what I'm saying, all you want is anti-c4 patch

can't see any further point of talking with you tbh

[unkempt glade]

You aint listening to me eithed

I could say you want to just want to keep vehicles with shit health so you can always just run up to them

[proud parcel]

Bad uno reverse card attempt. I was telling you other ways to make vehicles better, while you only want anti-c4 patch and nothing more

[proud parcel]

that's legit the argument of you not listening to me

so I was right about point of talking

https://tenor.com/view/guy-arguing-guy-talking-to-wall-talking-brick-wall-gif-18667615

https://tenor.com/view/city-hunter-ryo-saeba-shrug-i-dont-know-i-dont-care-gif-14623021

[unkempt glade]

I wasnt being serious with that last one i will admit

[cinder wren]

Neither of you are listening to me

[unkempt glade]

But you are very adamant on keeping c4 like this

And there is no real reason to do it

Im not saying that c4 should be useless against them

But you shouldnt also be able to easily destroy them with it

#1279353154487451680 message

Its literally just making it harder to do, not impossible

If you want to destroy vehicles, be an engineer

Its not a medics job to destroy tanks

Also brought up the fact that c4 does too many things too well

Removing one, vehicles, is not a big deal

It will still do it, just not as well

Making one option less effective opens up possibilities of other ones to buffed in some capacity and used more

Two more things, dont pull this shit in an argument #1279353154487451680 message
#1279353154487451680 message

This is either a severe lack of understanding english, a stawman argument and/or the good old "you said you liked apples, that means you hate oranges" typa shit

The latter is more likely

And second, saying "just buff vehicles" while actively ignoring the fact that nerfing c4 buffs the other by proxy is truly something to behold

And for the record, i do think vehicles should also be buffed in other ways, not just by nerfing the damage done by certain explosives

Some lack in armaments (even if they dont the armaments are shit in majority of ways) they feel bad to drive and their physics just suck

Even if all of these things are done in a manner that does not break the game, it doesnt adress the fact that they are still easily destroyed because of c4 and some other explosives

Anyways thanks for coming to my TED talk

Next one will be whenever i have time on my hands

[rain badger]

Show me a world in which nerfing the ability to delete tanks instantly with c4 does nothing

Vehicles are bad yes, but killing them when they're doing anything except sniping is trivial

[proud parcel]

That sounds like coping. C4 is not the reason of you being killed, it's your awareness. It doesn't really matter what will person have in his hands when he's already point blank on your ass

End of the story

I'm not gonna repeat my entire reasoning again like I did many times with palma beach

[hollow mural]

Me with a pp19 shooting a tank at point blank, shocked when it does no damage.

[proud parcel]

[rain badger]

"It's not a problem you're just coping" ok

[hollow mural]

I have no horse in this race. I fucking hate vehicles but some of the arguments are, beautiful to see unfold.

[proud parcel]

You making a joke out of actual thing looks pathetic, consider to never do that again

[proud parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/nekopara-gif-24510222

[hollow mural]

Ok

[rain badger]

stop posting and never post again. You have nothing to contribute and your opinions are asinine.

You debate like a disruntled teen

[proud parcel]

You're against my opinion - your opinion is bad

nice one

[rain badger]

Uno reverse card

Go post anime on 4chan and pretend to be ironic about traps

[proud parcel]

I gave previous guy many other options for making vehicles better, but you only mad specifically at c4 when you can't control your surroundings

[proud parcel]

that's more cringe than the word 'cringe'

[rain badger]

I don't even play vehicles so 🤷‍♂️

[proud parcel]

Yeah, sure. So you don't know what you're talking about then

What do you have to contribute then?

hypocrite

[rain badger]

You got me, I can't watch vehicles and observe a game, if I don't drive them they don't exist for me right?

Smoothest take

I see vehicles get deleted constantly, I see tanks hovering around map edges to avoid it, I see any attempt to support troops met with hails of C4 or obnoxious drones. I'm not even salty about littlebird tandems because at least that takes skill and should be rewarded as such.

Vehicles suck ass, but short of completely redesigning the physics engine and driving mechanics, there's little that can be done to make them impactful in the game in the short term. Good vehicles make the game better for everyone, they're a direct counter to sniper play, bad vehicles are better than nothing but currently we get nothing because their lifespan is measured in seconds.

[unkempt glade]

Rail casually ignoring both mine and yetis arguments

[worn cedar]

least smooth brain suggestion discussion

[unkempt glade]

Do you?

I will bring this up again, everything you have said points to the fact that you do not know what you are talking about

When have you played bbr last?

[proud parcel]

Ofc. Since you weren't listening to me when we were talking. And yeti is getting mad and aggressive af when I tell him something against his opinion

[proud parcel]

And I gave you plenty of other buff/nerf options. You just ignore it, don't change facts

[proud parcel]

(also I told you that I will stop arguing cuz it doesn't really make any sense on doing)

[proud parcel]

yesterday

[worn cedar]

just nerf c4's armor damage, problem solved

[unkempt glade]

You ignore my arguments too

#1279353154487451680 message

How about you read this for a start

[proud parcel]

They will continue on whining. People will continue blowing up tanks, count of c4s that you need to remove the tank doesn't matter if it's not higher than a number of c4s in your pocket(because it will break the weapon)

[worn cedar]

it has to be higher than what you can carry.

[proud parcel]

You're saying that I ignored your arguments when we were talking and now you want me to start from the point when I already stopped arguing? Smart

[worn cedar]

you should play with vehicles first, then yap

[proud parcel]

So there's no reason to carry c4, you can have hammer for the walls and other explosives for infantry :)

[unkempt glade]

There are

I literally said the reasons

[worn cedar]

are you stupid?

[unkempt glade]

He is

[proud parcel]

hypocricy

[worn cedar]

not with him lmao

[proud parcel]

and I answered why they're not the reasons that only c4 can do efficiently

[unkempt glade]

They are

Jesus you must be terrible at this game

[proud parcel]

Tell me at least one

that only c4 can do efficiently

[unkempt glade]

C4 is used against buildings, cover and people
Its very efficient at all 3 above

And killing people behind said cover

[rain badger]

C4 is the only guided munition in the game

[proud parcel]

hammer against buildings and any other explosive. Any other explosive and weapon against people

name any that only c4 can do efficiently

[rain badger]

That is the smoothest take I have ever seen

[unkempt glade]

This is not argument, you are just dodging

[rain badger]

I don't even know if this is ironic any more

[proud parcel]

you didn't answer on my question like I asked

[worn cedar]

actual idiot

[unkempt glade]

I did?!?!?!?

[proud parcel]

Don't dodge my question, I won't dodge yours

[rain badger]

Yea but your answers werent what he wanted

[unkempt glade]

@proud parcel

[proud parcel]

didn't see anything only c4 doing efficiently

[unkempt glade]

The answer is literally here

[proud parcel]

And I already answered why are they not only efficient with c4

Just admit that you're c4 haters bruh

[rain badger]

Ok, name something that is more efficient than c4 at all 3 things at the same time

[unkempt glade]

C4 is more efficent that both nades and hammer combined

[proud parcel]

and can't check your surroundings

[proud parcel]

Nades? It's not that hard to use your brain, cmon

[unkempt glade]

And no, you didnt answer, you sais quote "hammer against buildings and any other explosive. Any other explosive and weapon against people"

[rain badger]

Nades don't work again vehicles, next.

[proud parcel]

What vehicles?

[rain badger]

Any vehicles, next.

[unkempt glade]

Almost all

[proud parcel]

"against 3"

don't change the thing you've asked lol

[unkempt glade]

They deal like 1 damage to tranport ones

Its insignificant

[rain badger]

Reading comprehension maybe?

[proud parcel]

Can't see any 'vehicles' in 'buildings, cover and people'

Reading comprehension maybe?

[unkempt glade]

What

[rain badger]

So C4 can't destroy vehicles right?

[proud parcel]

We're talking about what C4 can do besides that

You want to kill it being AV

[unkempt glade]

We said that already and you are blatantly ignoring it

[rain badger]

I want to nerf it against armored vehicles, yes.

[unkempt glade]

No, thats why i pointed to the whole essay from before

[rain badger]

soft vehicles? go nuts

[proud parcel]

Palma wants to kill it being AV tho

[unkempt glade]

@proud parcel #1279353154487451680 message

Read

There is a reason why i pointed you to this

[rain badger]

This is some weird as fuck bandstanding ngl

[unkempt glade]

Idk what to say really

This man has either not played the game or sucks at it

[unkempt glade]

Need to point out here that normal nades are only good at killing people

They dont deal damage to cover

They dont deal damage to buildings

They do absolutely irrelevant amounts of damage to light vehicles (1 damage)

They do no damage to tanks nor APCs

If you were refering to AV nades, they deal damage to vehicles and infantry only if its pretty much shoved up ones ass, but even at that particular circumstance it isnt enough to kill a full health player, let alone do the amount damage that is substantial

C4 on the other hand:
Players: ✅
Cover: ✅
Buildings: ✅
Vehicles: ✅

In a game of rock paper scissors, C4 in this game is a fucking nuke

It does everything from a gadget in terms of destructive power

Making it so that in one aspect it isnt as effective as now, does not affect the other 3 in any way, shape or form

Tldr: Rail is either stupid or lying out of his ass

[cinder wren]

I’d be totally fine with that.

[mint kayak]

I’d say if you manage to place five C4 on the back of a tank, you deserve the kill.

I’d say nerf H-armor damage but improve L-armor damage to the point it one-shots Humvees.

It’s otherwise fine. It’s a fantastically fun demolition and breaching tool to delete the room and everyone inside.

Heavy armored vehicles like LAVs and tanks do need a buff. Tank is mostly fine, just make the turret as heavily armored as the front and now you have a beast.

LAV needs a rework and remove that blinding filter.

[verbal falcon]

ah yes "Let me keep my crutch that can do everything"

[silent field]

one shot humvees????

[unkempt glade]

I just want humvees to have consistent health values between each variant

They shouldnt be 1 shot

[tropic imp]

In bf2042, critism apart, CAV Brawler seems very interesting as a reference for armored vehicles, with a decent armory, a close defence system, and two seat for passenger using their kit.

[hollow mural]

No

[rain badger]

"how am I going to be effective against everything if you take my C4?" Is the biggest cope in BBr rn

[unkempt glade]

Mfw one gadget is not supposed to destroy tanks in 5 seconds

How do people not realise that one gadget shouldnt be able to destroy everything possible

[rain badger]

"No guy it's fine because I use it"

[lilac arch]

I mean I’ve always preferred the nerf vs vehicle engagements over the vs infy engagement idea more

There is absolutely zero reason why 10 people should sit in a small area/behind a sandbag with no real awareness, but somehow also not be able to be punished for it because of a gadget that persists through death, with no cooldowns/limiters, and with COMPLETE immunity to everything except bullets (trophy). There is also no reason why a gimped explosive cap system that was added as a bandage solution should apply in favor of actual balance of individual gadgets.

Compare that to vs vehicle where 2 c4s on the back kill an APC (or 3 if you’re just chucking it), and its easier to see which “nerf” idea makes more sense (imo) because it make engineer seem more impactful (both on the repair and destruction front)

[cinder wren]

It’s like whatever the hell iron man says to Spider-Man in that one movie

Hold on

Nvm I can’t remember but it’s relevant

[worn cedar]

or is it?

[cinder wren]

It is

[hollow mural]

it was a powerful moment for us all

[thin hamlet]

Omgggg literally nobody cares about vehicles

Long may the era of weak vehicles continue

[rain badger]

I want to care about vehicles uwu

[lilac arch]

Not saying you’re wrong for caring about them, but it’s an uphill battle.

Oki literally seems to not care right now, in fact the current upcoming update™️ has no plans for adjustments on vehicle balance

[rain badger]

I think because they need their own whole rework which probably also includes physics tweaks rather than balance issues

[unkempt glade]

Vehicles Remastered

[thin hamlet]

Maybe Oki could include this in the upcoming update!!

[thick vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/garfuel-sad-cut-it-cry-emotional-gif-15394302386385381859