Assault Lines Game Mode

[dense ledge]

Can we get some kind of Assault Lines/Conquest Lines style game mode?

Conquest, but you can only capture a point when you hold all points connecting it to your main base (and none are contested), which can also be captured. Sort of Tug-of-war style.

Players can spawn at any owned uncontested cap point.

Win/lose conditions are:

• Capture all points (including enemy main base)
• Timer (most capture points wins, draws are possible)
• Ticket count

Timer and ticket count would be the more regular winning conditions, full-cap victory would require a heavily stacked team of excellent teamwork.

This type of game mode would give a different experience to anything currently. More open and tactical than Rush, more focused and directed than Conquest.

Back-capping wouldn't be possible, but flanking/outmaneuvering would still be extremely important, as well as having an offensive/defensive split (something which current game modes don't really have)

Here's an example layout, note the safe zones are away from the main base, but there's still a spawn there.

In previous BF-like games, Theo's style of game mode has always been my favourite and I think it's something that would work really really well in BB.

Thoughts?

[slate robin]

I don't think there should be single points like point D in there but yes

[forest hawk]

we had this before. sadly 95% of playerbase didn't understand rules and was trying to capture non-actual objectives.

[dense ledge]

Other examples

[forest hawk]

its still remain in database as a AAS

[dense ledge]

I mean, that's a UX problem

[forest hawk]

we did everything.
Guide Arrows, Hide non actuial flags from player UI + grayout non actual flags from minimap.
No luck - half of the player was walking anywhere outside of actual objectives

[slate robin]

we still have modes in the game that are like that so I don't think another one would hurt

[dense ledge]

I mean that just sounds like standard BB gameplay, I don't mean that in a facetious way either

[slate robin]

ppl still don't understand how invasion works

[forest hawk]

well, at least in Frontline and Invasion players wont be able to wonder far-far away from non actual areas.

and will stick around in playable zone

[dense ledge]

That in itself is a problem, it feels really limiting and some of the zones are a balance nightmare

[slate robin]

don't see an issue with that. Same thing is in Conquest or domination too ppl just like to travel

[forest hawk]

yea, at least they do travel to other objectives and capture it.
While in AAS all what they can do at outside of actual flags is just farm kills on enemy who spawn on objective or block spawn.

[slate robin]

can you post a picture of an old aas map?

[forest hawk]

you can search by yourself in internet. There was some photos on wiki so far.

[slate robin]

hm

[dense ledge]

Iiii disagree with this assessment, being a backline partizan is an important but limited role in assault lines

Blowing up reinforcements and/or tanks before they get to the front

[forest hawk]

so squad of sweats will block all spawns = enemy wont be able to fight back and lose all oibjectives.
Game end within a 5 mins.

[slate robin]

sounds like a spawn design issue to me

[hybrid kettle]

pov why attack point when you can just spawn camp

[forest hawk]

so, where players will spawn? On main base only?

[dense ledge]

Make the spawn radius of the uncappable bases a kill-zone?

[slate robin]

can't find Aas layers via Google rn but I kinda expect them to be similar to the latest huge map test we had last year

[hybrid kettle]

disabled points wernt out of bounds and were disabled therefore couldnt be denied so people could spawn with 0 clue or spawn protection

[dense ledge]

Yea that's not great

[forest hawk]

how you will explain a random player who wander around, that he getting damage when he is close to a non actual objective?

And in any case a group of snipers will just sit around objective and farm kills form all directions.

[forest hawk]

Hope Google will unban you from search engine
https://www.google.co.uk/search?sca_esv=fbc98ab7d72b3cc1&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIJljWvcHGc-eiTZDcTPAJUeb7xO1w:1722256158431&q=Battlebit+AAS&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0A2EUQ7DkXSTFtSOkr0R3wsO_rnJg4o9p4gaaYbBrU7-mapLHvPiz3ekR2JADEUV-CdpFAZCg-WluLTinUNtfn2Ig_YsFU4UKCHxzvpWfhNH5OV5k4yv_Ey1ZcfNAHdKrVLVyyC93ApKUhluf2iUudDoh6qBUmL7OnO7wE1nKEr6GCADfz4z2y27iI2jgYt112F4ImmjByLgQOqieMhC1473KAoE2hZo5Fwu6sva6aldyISRoQiDC_6FHxjJfK7NnSGqrmV&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiHi6SUoMyHAxV4Z0EAHdytIzsQtKgLegQIExAB&biw=1872&bih=1042&dpr=1.5

https://battlebit.fandom.com/wiki/Azagor

[dense ledge]

Show it on the map? Have it look the same as when someone walks into an enemy spawn zone?

[slate robin]

you mean this map?

[forest hawk]

any map from wiki. due this wiki is outdated

[slate robin]

bruh discord too slow

[floral jolt]

man an aas mode would work if there was the milsim mode

[dense ledge]

See that looks fun as fuck

[floral jolt]

would if milsim mode was real

[slate robin]

it does

[dense ledge]

I don't think you should ensure you're catering for the smoothest brain russian krokodil addicts, but it ain't my game

[forest hawk]

yea, its fun when whole game designed around it, and every 99% of player will follow rules.

But its not about Battlebit

[slate robin]

that's what I mean. If snipers can farm the spawn points the map should be changed. That's not a problem of the gamemode

[floral jolt]

(when milsim mode or have you [vil and oki] abandoned that?)

[slate robin]

I don't see how thats any different to the other modes we have rn

[dense ledge]

This isn't an uncommon game mode in BF-style games, I'm really not trying to shit on BB but a whole lot of game modes currently just, aren't scratching that "purposeful" itch

[forest hawk]

sad you havent played Battlebit in pre- Remastered era.
You would experience it by yourself and how everything was failed no matter what we tried to do to improve it.

And AAS was a single one gamemode available in game

[dense ledge]

With experience and game engine improvements and all the other changes that have happened between now and then, don't you think there's a chance this could be revisited with a fresh set of eyes?

[forest hawk]

there is more chance to reduce amount of gamemodes to almost Conquest and Rush only ratger than adding and support current gamemodes

but currently cannot tell you anything, because our current update havent out yet...

[dense ledge]

I mean, that's a take but also a bad one, unless it's because you're doing maps completely solo

And making all the submaps for different modes just eats time

[forest hawk]

@dense ledge @slate robin

well, sadly AAS didn't worked well with all our effort and love in it for over a year...

It had many problems of:
• Half of players was wandering around map and didn't participate in fight on actual objectives.
• Team with more recon was loosing gamemode faster, with raise a hate toward class and part of player base. By looking on amount of snipers on your and enemy team you will know already who will win.
• Mobility problem - spawn on your protected objective was not possible, due it was easy to spawn kill you, so only choise left to player was - spawn on main base and do a long walk. Team with better helicopters and transport truck drivers had more chance to win game. Some vehicles become that critical that in wrong hands it will affect to outcome of game in negative way.

AAS before was a gamemode where are 128-256 players was able to get in a focused fight over 1-2 objectives. But with all those problems we decide to make just CONQ, with raise popularity of game and players replayability. Sadly majority of players do not want to be forced to do something - they do want to rest and enjoy game.

After a 1,5 years of CONQ dominationg on popularity, me and Oki decide to make a gamemode that will force players to focus on one part of map - its lead to release of broken Frontline - due i did designed a frontline with vehicles in mind, while at last stage we decide to do not include vehicles for balance reasons, and a bit more polished Invasion with have same goal as AAS, but have less problems and much intense experience due whole team is gathered in same playable zone.

We did loved AAS, but sadly it's din't worked...

[dense ledge]

I feel that, this game is cursed with easy but useless recon.

Conq is good, it's bread-and-butter do anything gameplay, but it's vanilla.

Frontline/Invasion always felt half-made and unpolished. I'm not saying this as a bash as I remember when they came out, the entire community was demanding something fresh and they wanted it now.

Both still have major problems that haven't been addressed, specifically cap-pushing and (again) the team with most recons losing

[slate robin]

ye sadly playtest is the earliest I played
but that's exactly why I say what i say, maps, players and the game have changed so much since then that I think it's worth a try

especially if you already have the code etc for it (parts might still be usable)

[dense ledge]

I mean, it would prob need a very heavy revamp and update, it's def not a "turn it back on" thing

[slate robin]

and in my opinion:

1. points and winning aren't worth much to the average player while kills do
2. still the case with current modes
3. maybe more vehicles/faster respawn could help?

[slate robin]

obv not but it's also not a start at 0

[fossil phoenix]

what map is this

[slate robin]

azagor I think

[dense ledge]

Old-ass Azagor

[forest hawk]

average player want to rest. They do not want to think about actual objectives, just run and kill.

So if AAS will come back - that wont be happened anytime in few years . Your experienced and outcome on this gamemode will based on % of team mates who do not want to play as LoneWolf and do something with team in order to win (not including a language barriers).
So you alone or your squad wont be able to do anything in order to win when 40-70% of team are not interested in objectives.

[slate robin]

same with all the other modes no?

[dense ledge]

I mean, how do other BF-style games get around this exact same issue?

I understand there's a difference in scale

[forest hawk]

you eathed do CONQUEST or PUSH gamemode with part of map available only.

[forest hawk]

well, other gamemodes beside CTF at least do limitation to playable zone. So random player going to be forced to stay in actual area or "support" team from safezone

[slate robin]

isn't AAS almost the exact same as conq just with fever active points? like preventing reinforcements is also important and an active zone even if it's not near a point?

[dense ledge]

I mean, Frontlines (the gameplay described in OP) has been a staple of BF for..... Ever?

[forest hawk]

AAS - is whole map available like in CONQUEST, but you must capture objectives in a special order.

[slate robin]

ye half the players on points and half preventing reinforcements/ defending own reinforcements

but you need more than 1 active point at all times

[forest hawk]

so how you will expalin to random player who wander on edge of map, that he need to protect own reinforcment path or block enemy one????

[slate robin]

you dont

that will not stop him

[dense ledge]

The recon issue is an issue with the class that covers all game modes tbh, it's one of the least-enjoyable parts of BBR currently that doesn't seem to get any air time from devs

[forest hawk]

so you will lose 5 games in a row, just because enemy team do camp your reinforcment path, while half of your team doing nothing?

You will just quit game and play regular conquest, where are atleast you can alone capture far objectives and do impact on outcome of game in some way.

[slate robin]

I don't see how that is any different than our current game modes?
like just yesterday I had a match where my squad build a bunker in the air and we had like 7 players in it for 50% of the match. They didn't do anything to help the team or attack/defend objectives. How is that any different to what you describe?

[dense ledge]

You design the map better, sorry.

You could do it somewhat similar to Inf Conq. by narrowing the playable zone down close to the objective path, allowing enough space for a bit of a cheeky flank but removing the vast wastelands

[forest hawk]

make everyting narrow wont help here.
It will only increase speed to win/lose game due more experienced team will trap your team.

[slate robin]

besides it will happen on both teams

and I mean like we have the island on zali and basically everyone on that island is useless for the team but we still have that mode. How is it any different?

[forest hawk]

yea, there is no sense to add more gamemode where are any activity wont help team.

So its better to make game with CONQUEST and DOMINATION only xD
Less complain

[dense ledge]

But, less fun

[full thorn]

Remove infy conquest worst gamemode

[slate robin]

ppl complain about BBRs stale game loop so extra gamemodes would help at least a bit

[full thorn]

Return domi

[dense ledge]

Variety is what keeps games like this interesting, you don't have a deep leveling system or unlock chain or ribbons/achievements to show off

Every ~20 games or so the server will pick CTF and it's manic and amazing and fun, even if it's a little janky

[slate robin]

no

ctf is not very fun

[dense ledge]

Because it's different, the same reason I love when the oddball night maps gets picked

[forest hawk]

yea, CTF is fun for once, but not twice when you will understand a factorsthat affect outcome - will you lose or win at begin of game.

[slate robin]

250players on 1 small obj is simply not fun

[dense ledge]

Honestly the same shits true for conq, it's especially true for Rush

[slate robin]

thats why you also cant make AAS with a single obj

[slate robin]

without having played it i can already tell this map was a pain with that in mind

i too would start wandering around

[dense ledge]

Conq ends in one of exactly three ways (depending on map), a one-sided stomp, circle-of-desth base trading, or a meat grinder in the middle on some of the more linear maps

Go play the community servers where they have practiced squads, conq is literally 4 helis flying in circles dropping people at points, it's a solved equation

Every now and again one group hit up a public server, it usually ends 0-1000+

[forest hawk]

what happening on CONQ, will be 10x worse on more objective focused gamemodes indeed

[slate robin]

[dense ledge]

Yea that's a thonking

[forest hawk]

i was tried to play BF3 yeasterday for fun.
Damn, 100% of rounds was end up in base trapping whole team.

Problem that most of BF3 maps are narrow with no ability to flank and only one main base. So leave base was imposible ...

[dense ledge]

Yea, the only people playing BF3 now are hardened vets who know every strategy, it's a known and well documented phenomenon. You're right though that BF3 maps are very confined and linear, it was their move away from BF2s much larger combined arms focused maps and honestly they went too far

I always remember BF3 maps feeling tiny by comparison

A really good example of a "complex" game mode that flowed extremely well due to a fantastic UX was BF2142's Titan mode, there was usually more Titan mode servers than standard conq

Took about 1 game to figure out what was going on

That would be a fun game mode, but good luck coding that in unity!

[fierce jolt]

totally agree with Velaskis.

First of all, experience has shown that this mode AAS does not work.

Secondly, no one likes to be told what to do, the average player for sure. It is an additional headache with the sequence of capturing points - the average player does not think about it, too complicated. And it's even harder comeback or break through, if the enemy team is stronger. In a normal CONQ you can at least take a truck and capture a remote point, which would draw the enemy away from the map center.

Thirdly, there is Frontline - a similar mode to AAS, where most of the games are snowballed in 5 min by one side = not phun.

You can come up with a large number of different modes with different settings, goals, complications, but people will play the simplest ones for two reasons:

1. it is easy to understand and learn
2. the simpler the mode, the less restrictions it has, therefore greater variability.

[floral jolt]

this just means we need milsim mode 🗣️

[slate robin]

we need sth else to do except grind kills

[strong condor]

Good modes

Ot just more modes

Improve invasion before adding more

Etc

[slate robin]

i think this could be a good mode

[strong condor]

This is just Frontline tho

[full thorn]

I mean it really is

Just with like, 2 added steps

[strong condor]

If you want to make new Frontline layers that are more and less open fine

But it's just frontline

[honest spruce]

the way this was done in Rising Storm 2 i think is the best way it can be done as it allows for the same type of gameplay we have but with more reason to actually defend objectives which really doesnt happen currently unless that point is where all the combat is at that moment

trying to find images for what im talking about

here we go, the way it is is that in maintains a line of control over the map that can still be countered and flanked and if the blue team controlled B but not D it would still be an enemy point but there would be no ticking score from red team owning it

as long as theres a way for it to be a good back-n-forth between teams instead of just centralizing all the combat making flanking relatively pointless i would say this would work just fine and not just become frontline part 2