Tanks and LAV/BTR rebalance

[hazy surge]

Tanks are pretty annoying to use, so in order to make Tank and LAV/BTR more viable in larger lobbies I propose.

• Please put range markers in the vehicles interfaces, for each type of ammoon tanks (examples on the images).
• Buff AP rounds Damage against vehicles, the This will make Tanks battle less longer and more exiting, 80 damage to LAVs/BTRs/Heavy Helicopters and 20 damage for a normal hit and 45 for a critical hit against Tanks will be great.
• LAVs/BTRs will have 2 types of ammo like tanks, 1 for infantry and the other one for vehicles, the normal HE rounds will remain the same against infantry but now they will have reduced damage against armored vehicles, the AP rounds doesn't have any radius but will perform better against vehicles (tanks excluded), and make them shot continuously without reloading (give them less ammo to balance this, 100 HE and 50 AP will be fine)
• Tanks cannon machinegun can shoot continuously whit the same amount of ammo of the turret machinegun.
• LAVs/BTRs/Tanks have now a smoke grenade launcher, guided by the cannon with a range of 30m (instead of a fart smoke of the tank), we can use the smoke tank bind into LAVs/BTRs.
• Make LAVs BTRs brakes effective, there are very hard to drive at max velocity.

Ignore the black text on the images pls

Any suggestions are welcome

A yeah I forgot to mention, changing ammo type in BTR/LAV have a cooldown of 5 seconds before shooting

[shell grail]

I do think LAV/BTR should swap between belts much faster than 5 seconds if not instantaneously since they’re weaker than tanks and need to be closer to be effective. Also give them both a coax like that on a tank and allow passengers to replenish health/ammo when inside. Give folks an incentive to stay in them.

I do believe tanks do show where shots land, though the distance they’ll do so is dependent on the zoom.

[coarse linden]

@minor yew o7

[minor yew]

They do show, yes. There is this small X in the colour of your HUD. It works for AP shells. But for HE it doesn't.

[hazy surge]

Mmm, maybe, the thing is making the vehicles balanced, if you gives them a buff you should add a limitation in order to prevent being broken

My gameplay philosophy is, every mechanic needs to be fun to use but fair to combat against

[minor yew]

Like limited to only few for 127 people team, long ass respawns of 4 minutes or even 6? Heavily limited ammunition and inablitity to repair fully in field forcing you to RTB every few minutes?

You mean Squad-like limitiations in arcady BF-like game?

[hazy surge]

The other problem is that LAVs/BTRs and Tanks are strong, but everyone have anti vehicles tools

[minor yew]

They are not strong

They are ok

Squad has strong vehicles

With coax that one shots, 2km range dozens of meters radious one shot kill shels, autocannons with one shot kill that's as strong as hand grenade

[hazy surge]

Tanks can take a decent amount of damage, I don't complain about Tandem, I complain about the absurd amount of Specialist classes can be in 1 squad, imagine a team with 8 engineers

[minor yew]

Only from HEAT from the front. The rest is a joke really. And even from the front you can super easily target the roof and do double damage.

[minor yew]

"I don't complain about Tandem"
You should.
It one shots LAV's in the rear. Two shots from the front/side. Has splash damage that doesn't loose dmg, so you don't even need to hit precisely a big target. Every one can equip it. It's not hard to use, like some claim. One shots helis and jeeps.
Unless you never played vehicles, you should complain about it, because it's fucking broken.

[west spruce]

Wake me up next year and I'll tell you for sure people will still be asking for a BTR/LAV buff

[minor yew]

With Oki at the helm there will be only Nerfs

[west spruce]

The funny thing is that BTR/LAV is in such bad shape that I have never seen anyone ask to nerf it. Everyone sees that they are not capable of anything.

[hazy surge]

They stuck in many maps

In trees

[wise gorge]

You left out the part where its slow as shit, has a range of 200m, stuck with that shitty scope and has only 3 rockets

Its only really effective at like 50m on a moving target

[minor yew]

You lack expirience with it then.

Like I said "It's not hard to use, like some claim"

[hazy surge]

Yeah, 1 tandem is not a trouble, the trouble is when the tandem engie is not alone

[wise gorge]

Its still not as good as you claim it to be

[minor yew]

It's very powerfull, especially when most maps force you inside cities to do anything. And camping tanks are stationary targets.

[minor yew]

it is. I died to it more than any other AT source, baring C4

[hazy surge]

That's the deal, you have to play wisely with them, and have a coordinated crewmembers in order to stay alive

[wise gorge]

Skill issue unironically

[minor yew]

It's very good if you stop looking at it's stats face value and use it on the field. getting 100m from the tank is easy on every map expet Old Oil Dunes. And tanks are often stationary

[hazy surge]

At least tanks and LAVs are not designed for solo players

[minor yew]

On your part tho, not mine

[wise gorge]

Not my fault you stand still

Like yeah it is easy to hit a tank thats standing perfectly still with a tandem

[minor yew]

If you can crub stomp vehicles with tandem, you need to play with it more.

It's easy really, especially with 4? meter AOE that still deals full damage

[hazy surge]

As a vehicle player you have to stay very cautious all time and if you have someone chasing you, us better keep moving than being a stationary target

[wise gorge]

^

By moving you effectively cripple tandem range down to 50m

If you stand still no shit you gonna get hit lmao

[minor yew]

Man, I really didn't know that

It's not that it's only way to survive in LAV

[minor yew]

Nope. You can't aim then. You can hit moving targets from ~100m

[wise gorge]

Much harder to do so
Plus you can manouver a bit to dodge it

Since its slow as shit

[minor yew]

I seen many people hitting moving tanks with tandem

From moving heli too

It's trajectory is constant and predictible, speed isn't that bad,

Scope is easy to use, tho may be hard to lern

And that's it's skill floor lol

Like really man, tandem is easy to use and broke with damage.

HEAT is just brain dead to use

[wise gorge]

Clearly never used tandem, only been its victim

[minor yew]

Used it, tho I prefere HEAT

For anti inf

[coarse linden]

calling skissue on drew when it comes to anything ground vehicle related smh

[minor yew]

He joined month ago tho

[wise gorge]

Not exactly true

Left and rejoined

Been here a good bit my man

[hazy surge]

The long you last as a tank depends on your teammates

As I said, Tanks and LAVs are not designed for solo players

[minor yew]

Yet they are forced to play solo, because unless you have premades, which shouldn't be a requierement, you are solo

Randoms want tanks, not gunner/spotter seat, but the main gun

LAV's are one person only

[rocky tree]

oki added av nades and placed apc weakspot at the rear, he made them even worse and didn't buff anything lol

[minor yew]

And no one cares to support vehicles

Don't even try to deny that, that's just BBR.

unless it's heli

Heli can find gunners and repair guys

[hazy surge]

That's a problem, if you make vehicles too strong everyone will complain about that

[wise gorge]

Doesnt help that every apc/tank doesnt want to be repaired on the field apparenly

[hazy surge]

Because a good vehicle driver is a pain to deal with it

But not impossible to take down

[wise gorge]

They really like to run away when im repairing despite them taking cover

[hazy surge]

Yeah, the trouble is if you know you're are pointed by a RPG the last thing you want is stay static in one place

[minor yew]

People complain about vehicles rn. Not only about spawn camping. People will always complain about something

And vehicles are easy target due to unreasonable stigma that doesn't apply to this game

[hazy surge]

Yeah, the problem is people don't want to fight a mobile fortress because if there is a good driver, men, that things are gonna be invincible

[minor yew]

99% of other player will not be invincible mobile fortresses

So fuck them?

[hazy surge]

Tanks in most games are designed to medium-long ranges for a reason, even in BF Tanks are more effective in medium range engagements

[minor yew]

You can't balance any game around top 1%, becouse that hurts majority of playrbase inporportianally more

[minor yew]

Tanks in BF are close-medium range. Drop off etc. Especially in the new one, they are very much close range

[hazy surge]

Buffing health or nerfing RPGs are pointless, why the people instead of thinking that Buff the versatility of the weapons of the Tank

[minor yew]

Only mid-long range implementations of tanks is squad and Arma

Even PS2 is close-mid range, with maps kilometers wide

[minor yew]

The biggest tank/lav issues is survivability

And lack of features

If any buff were to happen it's thier survivability

[rocky tree]

shitty driving mechanics for the apcs as well

[wise gorge]

All vehicles*

[minor yew]

they kill all right, and I will argue they shouldn't kill better than they currently do, becouse that would be OP

[hazy surge]

Yeah, that's the reason that I recommends, coaxial guns in the IFVs, Buff driving mechanics

[minor yew]

HP/Damage profile

[rocky tree]

true but apcs are way worse

[hazy surge]

Smoke grenade launchers

[hazy surge]

True

[wise gorge]

Water vehicles are worse

[minor yew]

We can't have Suqad like survivability in game that's like BF but 4 times bigger

[wise gorge]

But yea, apc ground wise is the worst

[hazy surge]

It feels like soap

The brakes doesn't work

[minor yew]

Smoke that you can see throu? Smoke that doesn't hide spot markers, even tho community asked for that, but dev's ignored them?

[wise gorge]

Only applies to smoke nades specifically

Tank and smoke launcher ones are fine

[hazy surge]

Yeah that's another trouble, the ping system is OP as fuck

Even with infantry, you'll be marked in the map like 4 to 12 seconds

[wise gorge]

Spot markers are another thing will say thar

[minor yew]

I would argue with that tbh, but ok

Spot marker point still stands

[rocky tree]

those as well ye

rhib

[hazy surge]

The amount of specialists on a team needs to be reduced to 1 or 2 per squad

The specialist roles are specifically the Engineer and Recon

1 Engie to deal with it is fine, but dealing with 6 of them at the same time is pure pain

Like I said, the trouble with survivability is you can encounter many people with AT tools

Killing a solo tandem engineer is relatively easy, but dealing of 4 of them at the same time is a problem

APCs needs a Buff I their mobility and weaponry in general

And please, vehicles should destroy trees with only speed instead of shooting at them

Hat trees in BBR as a Vehicle player

[minor yew]

Also survivability, becasue it can be one shotted by tandem which shouldn't have place.
Sustainability, because you can't spend 1/3 of match resupplying
Coax yes, second player seat with MG too

But first two apply to every vehicle in the game exept helis

Also, APC alredy is very mobile

Only improvement in that should be proper vehicle physics

Tanks needs more top speed tho, because spending 5 minutes to go ressuply and come back on some maps is a joke

[hazy surge]

Buildable Vehicle repair stations will be great

[coarse linden]

fuuuuck apc is bad

especially with how much you'd need to move around the map if you wanted to be aggressive

(new district practically forces this)

[hazy surge]

APCs in general needs buffs

[minor yew]

Yeah, that and some tweaks like hand reapir tool repairing to 100%.

Because the whole thing of getting out of the vehicle, making yourself more vunerable, spending a lot of tine, to still not being able to fix over some breakpoints is just a joke

[wise gorge]

What if

You can repair inside

At a slower pace

And outside at full pace

[woven cave]

bf1 style yes

[wise gorge]

Seems fair

If you want to risk repairing faster go outside
Otherwise you can stay in tank

[woven cave]

can add modules that way too

again like bf1

[minor yew]

Assuming you can repair to 100% of hp, which isn't a case, it's a great idea

[hazy surge]

We're cooking good boys

[shell grail]

How about forward rearming/repair points at/near control points? I know some maps of Isle has some because tanks can't swim, but they're all but absent.

That would substantially improve vehicle durability and their impact, since they wouldn't need to retreat across the entire map in order to rearm and repair their vehicle. Engineers can repair vehicles but cannot replenish their munitions.

I remember some were available in BF1942, though that's a very different game.

If necessary, they could just be rearming points if having repair points so close to the frontlines would be OP.

[woven cave]

rearm points wont do shit if you die in less than 5 seconds

not a bad idea mind you, but not a fix

[rigid cobalt]

Whilst we’re on the topic of repair make it give more XP too

I’ve genuinely seen groups of people back then prior to the nerf of xp gains happily want to repair vehicles. Nowadays.. good luck finding an engi wanting to do that

tbh accounting for potential XP farming/boosting in balancing, instead of limiting the future XP, or reverting/resetting the farmed XP of bad actors is dumb as fuck. I will hold that opinion until the end of time.

[wise gorge]

From my experience the only good way to get repair exp is to be in a heli

or big boat if you hate yourself

Trying to get repair exp from stuff like tanks and apcs is much more difficult

Moment they get hit by anything most go back to base
Some dont realise they are being repaired or just dont listen

The experience of being repair engi is just shit

[minor yew]

Still great step forward

Sometimes such quick fix up will give you another 5 minutes

[woven cave]

I don't know why they don't just raise the amount of repair you do per tick, and lower the amount of ticks instead of what seems to be a one for one point gain.

[hazy surge]

Ah yeah, forgot to mention, nerf the fucking ping system, it is the main reason why tank's and vehicles in general are fucked so quickly, if someone spots your vehicle, you're guaranteed to deal with at least 2 to 4 engies trying to hunt you down

[coarse linden]

^ this so much

[hazy surge]

Believe me, I check the map every 30 to 60s if I'm not in a fight, ping the tank an literally you reveal their exact location for a good amount of time

Worse if you're spotted by a recon

[woven cave]

makes sense for Helo's maybe. but ground vehicles the length they are pinged make it really easy to cut them off

[karmic solar]

ewww squad screen

[opal orchid]

late but the problem with the Isle boxes is that they get disabled for an entire minute if an enemy so much as breathes on the point, which means that a single dedicated AT squad can completely shut down tanks on that map by depriving them of their only resupply point. And that's on a gimme point, not even a center point

If forward boxes become a thing that restriction has to be changed or removed entirely because otherwise the boxes will be inaCrive all game

[minor yew]

"a single dedicated AT squad can completely shut down tanks on that map"

That's basically every map

You can do it on every conq match if you want

[shell grail]

Other resupply points could be established if necessary, and spawn is still a thing.

[woven cave]

yeah and running to spawn might as be dying. you have the same downtime if not longer if you got to go all the way back.

[shell grail]

I was thinking use the spawn resupply to fight for A.

[woven cave]

which would still be 2-3 minutes down time, minimum.

[shell grail]

True.

Perhaps one on each point would do the trick.

Or near the point.

[woven cave]

it wouldn't change much. because you would still need to run anyway.

[thin hazel]

Let people shoot out of the BTR/LAV so it becomes more than a metal coffin for infantry wanting a ride.

[hazy surge]

In the suggestion I mentioned adding a machinegun seat (exposed) and a Coaxial gun for the main cannon of the IFVs

[minor yew]

It's still be metal coffin without much better survivability

If you want IFV's to be worthwile transports, they need to be much tankier

No player will risk certain death when hit to just get to a point when he can take jeep/quad/heli/totally abusable spawn system, no matter how many guns you give them to shoot

[shell grail]

Why don't they make them mobile resupply points that heal/resupply ammo for passengers?

It would be hilarious if they did make BTR passenger seats lore accurate and everyone just sits on top.

[woven cave]

thats more a brdm thing

[forest falcon]

by this do you mean like some of the seats can turn out and use guns or are you thinking via firing ports

[thin hazel]

Passengers already have a small window they can look out of, why can they also shoot out of it with their equipped gun.

[shell grail]

Soviet soldiers preferred to ride atop BTR-60/-70/-80 because they didn’t exactly trust the armor or the ability to get off in time. In the case of BTR-60 and -70, getting out of one was far more involved because the side hatches were small. The practice of passengers riding outside the vehicle is also seen on BMPs and BMDs. Russian and Ukrainian soldiers operating from these vehicles also do that with their Soviet-style BTR/BMP/BMD.

[forest falcon]

so firing ports

thing is for that is only the BTR-82 actually has firing ports but both BTR and LAV have two hatches over the infantry compartment that would allow people to turn out of the vehicle

i'd rather the exposed firing for the sake of it looking normal than having people shoot through a solid wall on the LAV-25 cuz it would just look and feel weird

aforementioned hatches on the back of the LAV and midsection of the BTR-82

[shell grail]

Exposed firing positions in the roof hatches would allow engineers to repair their vehicle without leaving it.

I like it.

[minor yew]

Like in BF2042?