New types of fortifications

[limber ocean]

Right now in game we have only sandbags, hesco walls, barriers and barbed wire.
Modern militaries also use stuff as: dugouts (foxholes), trenches, czech hedgehogs/dragon teeth.

While the first two - dugholes and trenches, would require some important changes (mainly possibility to deform terrain), the fortifiactions designed to stop vehicles can be easily implemented.

Hesco should get also a smaller variant, like half the size, for example instead of being 2x2x2m (6.56x6.56x6.56ft) it could be 1x1m (3.28x3.28x3.28ft)

It would be also pretty fun to modify how sandbags work - basically vehicles should be able destroy them by ramming into them, that would allow czech hedgehogs/dragon teeth to be implemented and be functional - they would just stop vehicles and provice SOME cover.

In addition to all this, the "snap" option would be great for building, since it would allow for more options while building fortifications.

Dragon teeth

[buoyant merlin]

nice good idea

[limber ocean]

potential hesco "bunkers" made with "snap" option

czech hedgehog

Also, the building of fortifications in game is kinda goofy, since sometimes you can build on top of other stuff easily, while sometimes you literally can't and need to perform some NASA calculations with your mouse, the snap option would fix it

[plain wolf]

If you add these you can also incorporate #1243642258486722640 into them

[polar anvil]

basically vehicles should be able destroy them by ramming into them
isnt that the case already? atleast to some degree?

[limber ocean]

not from what I experienced

vehicles just get stuck on them or just stop completely

like hitting a solid concrete wall

[polar anvil]

[limber ocean]

maybe SOMETIMES they do a little damage to sandbags

but it's like

holding destroy button for 1s

[worldly geyser]

i think its tied to speed,

[worn pagoda]

If they do damage, it is a singular "tick" of unbuilding

Vehicles are more likely to clip into the object than destroy it

[limber ocean]

Yeah exactly that

[worldly geyser]

its funny when you get a smokeing or on fire humvee or tiger and set up a sandbag in front of them and watch them excplode

[tribal glade]

could do with a tarp

[limber ocean]

epic job

same with this

[worn pagoda]

Goofy. How you feel about class specific buildables

[limber ocean]

I mean, it could work, but we'd have to think about it

[tribal glade]

make this a prompt somewhere, make it take like 60 seconds of f holding to build fully

or add shovel

[limber ocean]

Assault = no clue what he could do, maybe just basic ones?
Medic = maybe some kind of medic outpost? Idk how that would work tho, maybe like one huge medic box that heals instantly?
Engineer = maybe some gun emplacements?
Support = maybe the new stuff I proposed?
Recon =

[limber ocean]

Some presets to build?

[tribal glade]

wdym

[limber ocean]

Like dev-prepared presets like the stuff you sent

Like let's say

[tribal glade]

yeh

[limber ocean]

change the menu to smth like this:

First you select material:

• sandbags
  • some kind of emplacement 1
  • some kind of emplacement 2
  • regular sandbag
  • sandbag with holes to shoot through
• hesco
  • some kind of emplacement 1
  • some kind of emplacement 2
  • hesco
  • short hesco
  • tall hesco
• roadblocks
  • czech hedgehogs
  • dragon teeth
• barriers
  • barrier block

or this

but I think it would be one huge pain in the ass for Vil

so I think it should be more like the stuff I explained

hm

I mean, they are fully build already

yeah, that would work

on lonovo there are pre-built hesco walls near bridge

that you can actually destroy

[heavy wigeon]

Fuck no lmao
Only buildable that takes damage from being rammed is barbed wire

Or well, meaningful damage at least

[polar anvil]

am i getting gaslit?

[worn pagoda]

About what

[heavy wigeon]

Im being legit

To my knowledge ramming cars into sandbags and all does nothing

[worldly geyser]

it does do damge

[heavy wigeon]

But when it comes to barbed wire it break it completely

[worldly geyser]

to both actually

like one level of damage to a sandbag. and depending on the speed maybe even get your car smoking though that might be coincidence.

[heavy wigeon]

It doesnt even do a whole lot clearly

Never actually seen a sandbag or anythibg legit take visible damage

[worldly geyser]

I literally just said one level of damage.

honestly it feels like if you slam into it at full speed it does the samge damage as a hammer

[heavy wigeon]

Hammer deals damage to sandbags?

[limber ocean]

I don't think so

[heavy wigeon]

Not sure what devil means by it does same damage as hammer

Last i checked neither pick nor hammer deals any damage to sandbags

[worldly geyser]

...everythig does, its just fucking slow.

[worn pagoda]

my moneys on every hit being 1 building damage regardless of the damage value, but i have no fuckin clue how it actually works

[heavy wigeon]

Nah i vividly remember doing it with hammer

Didnt do shit for a while

Ik bullets damage buildables

[worn pagoda]

I am currently cooking up some class specific buildables

[heavy wigeon]

But hammer from my experience never did one point

And never noticed it for vehicles, but even if they do, like i said it barely makes a dent in em then

[past warren]

fox holes would be nice

and then the pickaxe would have a another purpose

[stable ermine]

We do have plans to expand fortification types, like canopy to hide from snipers visibility, etc.

Just at first we need to revisit building system, make it more easy to understand and access to players, and probably rebalance they way how you get points and cost of each fortification.

But currently we have more important problems in game, that need our attention.

[worn pagoda]

Battlebot have mercy upon me.

[heavy wigeon]

My god

Anti recon buildable?

[worn pagoda]

Some of these blend the lines between gadget and buildable more so than others. The inclusion of some of these items as buildables is to leverage the squad point system and encourage varied squad based compositions that exist on top of the individual players loadouts. This removes some of the dependency for specific loadouts to be a “team player”, while still maintaining the class based twist.

The are a few large caveats to the buildables that would likely need to be changed prior to any substantial play. The feast or famine nature of squad points and distribution across different modes being the first. In general a player has enough squad points to never run out, or they have 0 due to the mode/map/timing or squad leader actions. The buildable menu and lack of average player interaction also relegates these items to pretty much unused. This leaves us with a final immediate issue of the number of people in a squad. The range of 4-12 player squads mean restrictions per squad/per player can not be as easily and evenly applied.

The current buildable behavior being reverted to pre December changes will move ramps from being useless to having a practical application. The health values listed are intentionally vague or approximations as I lack real damage detail.

Assault

Ramps

• Limit: Variable # of buildables per assault per squad
• Durability: Equal to the current concrete barrier
• Reinforceable: 2x base durability
• Squad Point Cost: Variable
• XP/Score Attribution: None
• Rebuild behavior: Building count limited, requires a previous buildable to be removed

Shallow variations for jeeps/tanks to drive up.

Allows for non vaulting/continued movement up terrain.

Provides a tangible benefit to have non engineers in a tank squad.

Absolutely ripe for getting into unintended places on maps.

Ladders

• Limit: Variable # of buildables per assault per squad
• Durability: Equal to half the current concrete barrier
• Reinforceable: 2x base durability
• Squad Point Cost: Variable
• XP/Score Attribution: None
• Rebuild behavior: Building count limited, requires a previous buildable to be removed

Faster than climbing up a normal ladder to give it a trade off over the additional distance a grappling hook offers.

Singular height option.

Will introduce weird new LOS issues in certain areas.

Medic

Bandage Dispenser

• Limit: 1 per medic per squad
• Durability: Equal to the current concrete barrier
• Reinforceable: 1.5x base durability
• Squad Point Cost: Variable
• XP/Score Attribution: Small XP per bandage dispensed
• Rebuild behavior: Building count limited, requires a previous buildable to be removed

Limited use bandage refill that anyone can refill off of, up to the class bandage limit.

This buildable would be used to anchor a location and intentionally be slower to move to the front lines due to the amount of healing potential it could provide.

Reduce the number of bandages a medic spawns with to encourage them to build one, inadvertently helping allies

The Healing station

• Limit: 1 per medic per squad
• Durability: Equal to the current concrete barrier
• Reinforced: 1.5x base durability
• Squad Point Cost: Variable
• XP/Score Attribution: Miniscule XP per variable amount of health healed
• Rebuild behavior: Building count limited, requires a previous buildable to be removed

Similar to a dropped medic box any number of players can interact with the box to heal themselves but players will only be able to move/look around while interacting.

Healing would be interrupted immediately upon taking damage, restoring full player agency.

Player must have LOS on the heal station.

Similar to the bandage buildable, healing is meant to be powerful with the proper setup.

Being unable to continually place new healing stations requires coordination with the team to tear down old ones, or more direct planning from the medic.

[heavy wigeon]

What in the fuck

I was gone for 2 minutes how did you whip this out that fast

[worn pagoda]

Oh ive had this in a google doc since early june, back when i said this #1247200655098118214 message

But the process of formatting it for discord SUCKS. So i put it off for like, a few weeks.

Engineer

Reinforce

• Limit: 0.5x of the buildable limit in the current squad
• Durability: Variable modifier based on target buildable
• Reinforced: No
• Squad Point Cost: 75% of the target buildables squad point cost
• XP/Score Attribution: Small xp per buildable reinforced
• Rebuild behavior: NA

Engineers can reinforce the current squads buildables to increase their durability up to 0.5x the buildables build limit

This would be displayed in the buildable menu as a “x/y buildables reinforced” counter. Having a reinforce limit lower than the buildable cap prevents everything from having increased durability all the time

Not all buildables can be reinforced, the buildables that can be reinforced would have varying levels of health increases.

Reinforcing a buildable increases the health and amount of time it takes for an enemy to unbuild it.

Existing buildable blocks would become reinforceble.

If an engineer leaves the squad the reinforced state is removed. A player could grief a squads points by leaving, rejoining, re-upgrading, then leaving on repeat.

Spawn beacon

• Limit: 1 per engineer per squad
• Durability: Equal to the anti-nade trophy
• Reinforced: Equal to the existing squad leader beacon health
• Squad Point Cost: Variable
• XP/Score Attribution: 0.25x “Squadmate spawn on you” XP
• Rebuild behavior: Placing a new buildable destroys the previous one

The former coveted squad leaders beacon gets put into the hands of engineers making substantially less noise and would be destroyed when the engineer who placed it spawns on it.

Insanely powerful to have an on demand spawn point that could make some maps rough.

Being able to place a new buildable and remove the previous automatically enables engineers to independently actively push forward.

Support

Armored Sandbag wall

• Limit: 3 per support per squad
• Durability: Quarter the health of a jeep
• Reinforced: No
• Squad Point Cost: Variable
• XP/Score Attribution: Small amount of xp awarded on armor break
• Rebuild behavior: Building count limited, requires a previous buildable to be removed

A larger than normal sandbag selection with armor plating on the front and back. Only weapons that deal damage to light armored vehicles would deal damage.

Once the armor plate is broken the wall would behave as a normal sandbag.

The armor can be rebuilt as long as the sandback is not under active fire.

The wall would be slower to build and unbuild even with supports increased build speed.

Heavy Ammo Cabinet

• Limit: 1 per support per squad, can not be placed within x meters of the capture zone
• Durability: Equal to the health of an atv
• Reinforced: No
• Squad Point Cost: Variable
• XP/Score Attribution: Miniscule amount of xp provided per restock
• Rebuild behavior: Building count limited, requires a previous buildable * to be removed

Instead of having to return to base, vehicles and heavy gadget users would refill from a large ammo cabinet.

A vehicle would automatically refill within a certain radius with a valid LOS.

The various ammo type current amounts would display in a floating bar above the cabinet and automatically deplete as vehicles refill, mirroring the ammo box point behavior.

Players refilling heavy gadgets would interact with it via a similar ui to the ammo box.

A vehicle being in range of multiple HACs would not fill any faster than normal, ultimately the cost and amount of ammo that it is allowed to refill will greatly impact the power of this.

Recon

Retractable climbing rope

• Limit: 4 per recon per squad
• Durability: Hesco block
• Reinforced: No
• Squad Point Cost: Variable
• XP/Score Attribution: None
• Rebuild behavior: Building count limited, requires a previous buildable to be removed

Stealing from the blackhawks rappelling rope, recons would be able to build retractable ropes that reach up to the length of a regular grappling hook.

The rope would be able to be cut but at a much slower rate.

Pulling the rope up would require a short interaction, dropping the rope would be instant.

The rope could be pulled up with allies and enemies alike on it.

Proximity Spotter

• Limit: 1 per recon per squad
• Durability: Equal to the anti-nade trophy
• Reinforced: 2x the anti-nade trophy
• Squad Point Cost: Variable
• XP/Score Attribution: 0.5x “spotted” XP bonus
• Rebuild behavior: Placing a new buildable destroys the previous one

This buildable will automatically spot enemies with a small radius around it while emitting a different and less audible tone than spawn beacons.

Standard 4 second spot duration.

Major downside, its free spotting and no one likes being spotted.

Ok enjoy reading @heavy wigeon

[heavy wigeon]

Oh boy

[heavy wigeon]

Well read through the entire thing.
Thoughts:

• Assault
  There is a chance ladders may be redundant, albeit im unsure due to not knowing their exact height. The ramp would be neat, but i do have question - will the ramps angle/height and wideness be adjustable? Otherwise no issues.
• Medic
  So both are kinda like my old suggestion https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1199105441167323276 but you seperated the healling and the bandage dispensing into 2 seperate buildables instead of putting it all in a singular gadget.
  Ig i could see the healing station work if either the medic box or the healing station had AOE heals.
• Engineer
  No complaints here really.
• Support
  How big would the support cabinet be?
• Recon
  Both sound neat and all, but like with support, how big and loud would both be?

[worn pagoda]

for assault, you could offer a premade selection of buildables of different angels/sizes. I wouldnt go over like maybe 6 unique options or something, too many options and you overload a player while already being a few layers deep in a generally unused mechanic. Ladders could be two stories, but you would climb faster than normal on them.

medic, i forgot that thread existed but yeah its buildables that are really just an extension of the medics current main abilities.

for the support i was thinking just reuse the resupply/repair thing from inside spawns. Might cause confusing if it looks identical because it wont repair.

recon. The retractable rope base would be maybe half of a hesco block with something sticking off for the rope to hang onto. The spotter would need to be vaguely disguised but still noticeable for players, nothing over soldier knee height with some colored markings to set it apart from the landscape. Volume for it would be.. maybe somewhere around half of an allied idling humvee or something to that effect.

[polar anvil]

I don't see why engineers should get their own spawn beacons

[worn pagoda]

It would be useable by the whole squad. Moving it away from the sl role and turning its sound way the fuck down might make it see more play. The goal is that each classes buildables make you want to have one in your squad

[polar anvil]

so a sniper squad also wants to have a support, an engi and an assault? doesnt make much sense to me as why not use the squad lead beacon and balance that

[worn pagoda]

If they want to refill drones and ammo at some weird ass place with the hac. Yeh you'd want a support. A recon squad is not role strictied, things that make you want to play as a team is the intent.