#Construction/Building changes idea

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

arctic badge
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So if you have done building you know the headaches, relies on having Squad points, lack of keybinds if you wish to build, shares the menu which worsens how the lack of keybinds feel, and the grand finale of the headaches for builders Everywhere in Battlebit, Spawn points no build zones

Ideas

  1. a dedicated build menu so you can view the options you have faster (Should not feature stuff you can't build. example a assault with double hescos)

  2. Options for dedicated keybinds for each structure

  3. Rather than using Squad points (Unreliable based on playstyles, since if you are doing your defense job correctly, you aren't losing the point you're on, unless things are going very wrong, or you are off point at a choke or such) have it be cooldown based
    3b. Cooldowns could be adjusted per class such as supports getting the shortest (Defensive class) on all of them, with engineers or such getting a reduced cooldown on certain structures

  4. Remove or adjust the No build zones. if you had tried to build on objectives before, you know the pain of how large & clunky these no build zones get, they need adjustment

Side Idea
5. Buff Barb Wire (Doesn't slow enough, not durable enough and so on to be useful ; you can easily ignore a single stack with a sprint jump, if it gets stacked up, everyone has C4 to quickly dispose of it in two tosses of something that could take a minute in 5 seconds or less) ; a way to deal with this is a decreased cap,a medium to high cooldown but also increase the effects (So durability & slow gets increased ; otherwise making it immune to small arms damage would be a major help)

midnight gulch
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Building if it was awesome

kind quest
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common honor guard W

thorn sleet
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i agree with everything except 3

vestal fractal
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I think dedicated key binds for each structure could crowd the already crowded keyboard even more - but being optional would be ok. Squad points work absolutely fine, there's just not enough ways to earn them atm (it's dumb).

I like the radial menu, the issue is the damn building select is off to the left. It SHOULD be directly upwards. I'd prefer if the radial menu was left click to go in, right click to back out personally as well so you can have dedicated rings that are easy to use for each section

crystal oxide
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In my opinion, building in general belongs in the milsim version of the game and should be heavily nerfed/removed from the game. Having the abilities to build headglitches anywhere on the map, walloff chokepoints, create areas of the map that are unreachable etc etc breaks the game and creates unnecessary complexity that turns off new players. Also, the developers have to keep buildable objects in mind when counting assets on the map so removing the amount of buildables might lead to more innate cover on maps due to freed up resources.

safe moss
# crystal oxide In my opinion, building in general belongs in the milsim version of the game and...

“Build head glitches”

Use your explosives or grenades. This is a non-issue quite simply. Annoying, sure. Gamebreaking? Not really.

“Wall off chokepoints”

Coordinate/work with your team to push said chokepoints. Or work around it to catch the enemy off guard. If someone made a good defense (let’s say to hold the line on a particular capture point) they should be rewarded for it.

“Unreachable areas”

Redzone is its own problem, builds or not. Flying buildables will likely be fixed with the next update, and using buildables to clip out of bounds in maps (e.g. namak skybox) is covered under exploiting in terms of bannable offenses.

There is nothing complex about it imo, in fact the system is pretty straightforward once you inform players that it exists. Perhaps this could be added to the tutorial for said new players?

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Not to mention removing builds is indirectly nerfing support, which imo that wouldn’t help the class when people want to try lighter armors in place of exo

crystal oxide
# safe moss “Build head glitches” Use your explosives or grenades. This is a non-issue quit...

The most egregious examples of building being used to make headglitches is the tower on Isle. The DMR and sniper players will build fortifications on top and use the head glitches to snipe across the entire map. The only counter to this play style is to snipe and dmr yourself, leading to a balancing issue where sniping and dmr gameplay is super abusive. Another example is sniper/dmr players in the desert on Sandysunset. You can't really use c4 or explosives (and incentivizing explosive spam is its own issue) to counter these most egregious examples because they are impractical/impossible to assault. Walling off chokepoints is bad for gameplay because it channels players into smaller areas and in the larger player sizes, this leads to unsatisfying combat encounters where you just end up spraying or explosive spamming. All in all, these gameplay factors increase complexity for new players because there are no obvious ways to counteract this gameplay style without deep map knowledge or high skill.

safe moss
# crystal oxide The most egregious examples of building being used to make headglitches is the t...

That’s a map issue though, not buildable issue. Both maps you mentioned have had complaints about sniping being an issue and are extreme case examples with this in mind. You’re not the only one who shares the frustration of said maps.

As for walling off choke points, you have a few options to counter it.

Unbuild the cover using smokes/flash to cover you, use grapple to traverse around said cover, explosives, etc. you have options.

And the last sentence just boils down to “skill issue”. Stuff shouldn’t be removed just because people cba to learn it. It should be taught so new players are encouraged to use it.

crystal oxide
safe moss
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Never said support sucked btw

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Just makes it less appealing to use the lighter armors because insta building cover is a pretty good class perk if used right.

Can’t build cover in a pinch? Why would I just not use exo then?

crystal oxide
# safe moss That’s a map issue though, not buildable issue. Both maps you mentioned have had...

Yeah but these examples happen almost every time the map is played, so it definitely shapes the overall gameplay of the map. I agree that it is a map issue but building definitely exacerbates it to an unecessary degree. Removing building is much simpler than redesigning the map to accommodate for that play style. I don't see why building has to exist in the base game mode when Oki has already said that a milsim version is in the works. There are several other maps where building affects the gameplay in a negative way (frugis, kodiak, zalfi) etc etc and yes there are definitely issues with the maps but building enables a playstyle that breaks the game and is pretty apparent if you play the maps frequently enough.

crystal oxide
# safe moss Never said support sucked btw

Nah I think support sucks because armor is not a good mechanic. The fact that you have the slow debuff but cannot refill armor plates makes heavy armor/exo armor feel really bad. I agree that removing building would nerf support (an already weak class imo) but if armor gets reworked I could see support being a playable class.

safe moss
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Armor plate resupplying is supposed to come in a future update, alongside an armor rework if that helps things

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Source: devcasts

hasty dove
safe moss
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Yeah I know “no ETA” but figured it would be worth mentioning

hasty dove
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Could you feel me typing [Citation needed] LUL

safe moss
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Nah I just know it’s a meme at this point because of the situation revolving delays kinkkwakkonk

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But tl;dr is

Exo moves even slower, but armor is better to compensate

Light armor guys retain speed but are basically glass cannons and can be killed pretty easily (less health)

(Heavy and normal will be inbetweens still obviously.)

Leg/arm shot meta is removed so that armor doesn’t get bypassed entirely. This meta is the one that made “armor” seem like a joke to players (armor turns into health iirc, you get more or less depending on what armor you’re using.)

crystal oxide
# safe moss Just makes it less appealing to use the lighter armors because insta building co...

Beyond the armor rework, support could have the eod perk or faster ammo refilling from boxes or whatever, the nerf support receives from nerfing/removing building could be compensated in other areas. Most of the players during the release/playtest viewed building as an afterthought more than a core gameplay feature, and I know for sure that the explosive spam/sniper gameplay/chokepoint issues really turned them off and eventually made them leave. Building it seems only enhances these problems and doesn't really feel like it fits in the base game. This led to a majority of players that were either unaffected by bad gameplay design or found it appealing, if that makes any sense. I'm really concerned that this will steer development in a direction where the features that turned off the majority of players are doubled down on in the future due to poor feedback. Also for walling off chokes, the gameplay in battlebit is way too fast and theres way too many open sightlines on the map to take the time to unbuild or c4 down buildables, especially given the degree that you can spam buildables. I think the game should reduce the player incentive to bring explosives, not increase it because even Oki acknowledged that increasing destruction breaks the game. Forcing players to choose to bring explosives just to counteract building feels weird already and buffing it would make it worse.

arctic badge
# crystal oxide In my opinion, building in general belongs in the milsim version of the game and...

I'll be honest

I see it having a place in both because you don't build a good fortress in extremely little time, the chokepoints idea is as stated by others a case of easy enough to counter (if the builder also did the dumb of blocking his line of sight it can easily become a weakness) , mixed with the complexity it has, isn't much in most cases (excluding bugs) and those that do, tend to require time & effort on the builder's part (as well as foresight to setup there)

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Otherwise we are not sure that Vilikas puts thought of building in his maps entirely (I could easily be wrong but based on the suggestion where he asked for cover ideas, he is looking for options to make cover on maps), mixed with if you remove building, you have no ways to fortify a position after it gets hit by XYZ explosives & possibly leveled

crystal oxide
crystal oxide
arctic badge
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in terms of Frugis C4 automatically deals with the wire (2 C4 can clear wide bands of it) and the subways are already pretty defensible and requires some flanking (as was stated prior), since most of the great spots have two ways to apporch at the min

Also on the snipers you can blow a hole in a wall, build your own cover, use smoke grenades or such

crystal oxide
# arctic badge I kinda feel they don't get abused as much for that overall , mixed with I don't...

The problem with 254 player servers is that there will always be people using mechanics in the most abusive way, what matters is how the mechanic affects the overall gameplay on the map. If you play pretty much any map on conquest/infantry conquest there will always be snipers using buildables to hold headglitches - this is a bigger problem on some maps than others. Every time you play frugis, the players spawning on the c point get trapped in the subway because of the massive chokes, and the buildable spam makes this problem even worse because it makes it impossible to push through the choke. Idk how you are arriving on this feeling that buildables are not abused in this way, but the next time you play a map like sandy sunset or wakistan count how many snipers are sitting behind buildable walls holding headglitches that only other snipers/dmrs can challenge. OR play frugis and tell me that the buildable spam doesn't contribute to the problems with the subway tunnels because it seems pretty clear to me.

split kiln
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buildables can be unbuilt fast and you can kill people on the other side with grenades

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if frags, flashes and smokes dont work use c4 or rpg to dwindle numbers and push like crazy

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idk why you are having troubles

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best way to unclog em is by holding whatever keybind you have unbuild to

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works in combat too