Please make waki rework good

[peak dagger]

Basically remove all the sniper spots for nerds to farm long range kills. Make regular recon basically unplayable and force every recon to play like kingking. The other maps already have a recon problem but recons on waki suck the fun out of fighting on the bridge. Do not fuck up waki rework but instead fuck the waki recons

[maiden horizon]

Institutions unclear, currently sitting in redzone/safezone as recon not helping my team

[peak dagger]

I just wish for waki to be a map where recons can suffer and realize their massive skill issue

[compact horizon]

most "sniper spots" are within 150 meters of combat. if you can't engage that, that's on you. the only exeption being F.

[peak dagger]

Most snipers dont go in most sniper spots because they are always of F

If you are crossing the bridge and glance towards F there is always a line of sniper glint

[compact horizon]

so rework F then, add trees between C and F or something to break site lines (make the bridge actually prove cover and not be a unifrom chest high wall on both sides.

[peak dagger]

Or just remove F and that part of the map

F serves no purpose but harboring recons

[waxen ocean]

Bridge should be horizontal across the river with an objective in the center. If you fly a helicopter to the side over the river there's a whole other map there completely unused, with buildings and roads and all.

Diagonal would work too.

[compact horizon]

ah yes, just what waki needs, more empty space.

[peak dagger]

Just remove that entire part of the map make it off limits

Either way the idea is to remove the sniper presence on waki

[compact horizon]

that removes well over 60% of the map

and leaves the shitty bridges that nobody likes.

[maiden horizon]

F is just filler and should be removed. Sure there’s a tank spawn there but most don’t know that and just go there because the game tells them to due to how auto-issued orders work

Make the 2 tank spawns there spawn in bases instead (1 in US and RU base after a certain time frame, like tensa)

[compact horizon]

again F and the area beyond that is just empty space then

do you all really want a straight line map with nothing but the bridges?

[maiden horizon]

The problem is F to begin with is mostly empty space

[compact horizon]

its actually the space between F and beyond F

not F itself.

make F lower, make the bridge not be made by a 2 year old, and trees, a hill maybe buildings instead of lowland to break up long range sight lines

[maiden horizon]

Regardless, I do agree with either reworking it or removing it. Either works, I just prefer remove because of how much dead space that whole area is

[compact horizon]

add something in the fucking wheat fields

[maiden horizon]

If that area gets trimmed and the tank spawn is more easily noticeable, i’d be fine with that too. But make it 1 neutral tank instead of 2 with this in mind

[compact horizon]

trimmed?

[maiden horizon]

The back area/woods behind F that’s just filler overall

[compact horizon]

ah I see, give us a point there, maybe 2 like D/B is to C. there is a lot of space out there that could be used

[maiden horizon]

Honestly F itself isn’t too bad, train area is kinda weird? But I just avoid that area via grapple hooks

[compact horizon]

yeah, Like I said F isn't the problem

sure it could be lowered so its not the same height as C, which would curb alot of snipers there

but everythine around it just makes the perfect storm for snipers

fucking massive sightlines

[peak dagger]

The “shitty bridge” is the only fun part of the map

[compact horizon]

and yet its not liked at all by the majority of players.

[peak dagger]

Then why is it played so often?

[compact horizon]

because people farm kills?

that's literally it.

and even then, not one of the most voted for maps

[peak dagger]

Atleast in my opinion i enjoy the waki bridge if you exclude recons

[compact horizon]

its a farm map, turn brain off kind of deal. the bridges need a rework, maybe the destrcutible cover, more hescos, taller side walls, that kind of thing

right now its just run in and die or die and be revived over and over on those bridges.

main problem is that there is not much options to do otherwise.

[maiden horizon]

Bridge is easy chokepoint to understand and F point is basically a carrot on a stick that makes new people feel like they’re contributing in some way. Recons also feel like they’re contributing if they snipe bridge/C point enemies from F and vice versa

Veteran players dislike it because of how overplayed it is, and when they do get that map.. it’s usually just staying on bridges because that’s where most of the action will always be

[odd beacon]

every time i get waki i just avoid the bridge as much as is possible, because the same damn thing happens every match on it: 85% of both teams sit and stare on the bridge hemorrhaging tickets leaving rambos to run around back capping with the unreasonably giant playable area to the west of the map

so ive tried my best in the games ive gotten on it to just hard protect the flank and do counter sniping which mostly ends in vain since tickets are still wasted dogpiling the bridge

[odd beacon]

people definitely vote waki just to play on the bridge, which is fair enough on one hand, but thr bridge barely makes up any of the map and resultantly wayyyyyy too many people are in a small part of the map compromising the rest of it which makes for not very fun games

[maiden horizon]

For newcomers bridge is easier to understand than swimming across the lake or moving between C and F with no interesting Points of interest and a reasonably high chance of being sniper prey

I agree, waki kinda just defaults to bridge battle in most cases which easily can become stale, but that’s what most new players see (that or F point) and therefore gravitate towards it

[frigid ivy]

i avoid most of the map except the bridge. But im always below it not trying to push on top of it

bridge and the 3 connected points are the only ones i play at. Rest sucks

[mystic shale]

Delete waki 🔥

[hushed crane]

than you have me building Forts on the top with sniper cover towards F and the enemy's side

[stark echo]

I find the best sniper situations are ones that have good overview of a decent chunk of the map, but are at extreme range so it's a challenge but you can still help your team by locking down rooftops.

Sandy Sunset is a perfect example, the two neutral corners of the map have elevated spots nearly at the map's edge, so you have to make a +1000m shot to do anything, but it has value and takes skill.

It also allows for cross-map counter-sniping, which is a TON of fun and the challenge is absolutely wonderful when you're trying to snipe a guy +2500m away.

[compact horizon]

I mean sure thats possible, but value?

[stark echo]

I wish most maps had that sort of system.

+2km apart indestructible sniper pearches (hills/mountains/etc.) with a decent overlook on the cap point roofing.

You can still have an impact while sniping, but you have to put real effort into your shots due to sheer range.

[compact horizon]

you will have like no impact at that distance

[stark echo]

I once single-handedly turned the tide on a stalemate at the center of the map, because the enemy holding the center kept losing their forces when they'd peak to hold off my side's approach, and their attempts to counter-snipe fell short.

[compact horizon]

sure it might be fun to have sniper duels at that distance, but not helpful at all.

and you know it was your one gun that turned the tide?

that is very unlikely unless its a small server

with how fast people move, you would need to have near perfect accuracy and a semi-auto to put a dent into enemy forces with no downtime.

[stark echo]

It was going for ~6 minutes straight, then I went on a hill, and it was no different than when I left.
Then I started shooting, and went on an 83 kill streak over the course of under 3 minutes, and the fight ended.

Our guys didn't change anything about their tactics, but I was netting kills almost as fast as I could settle the recoil and pull the trigger for the first ~40 seconds alone.

The ended up pulling a chopper with 6-8(?) players just to fly over and kill me after they lost the point.

Every guy you kill or even just distract at the right moment is one less person in the fight against your team.
A good sniper at distance with the right angle and cover can turn a 5v2 into a 2v2 or 2v1 in your favor, just by raining lead down on the side they're wanting to use as cover.

When their cover is "im up on this roof" and you're looking down on it like they're looking down on the street below, they have little choice but to face you with their full focus or run (at best, feeding your side an easy kill on a target with no cover, at worst, leaving your allies to march through completely uncontested).

Sadly, I only know of Sandy and Valley which have such positions (and valley's are destructible air turbines, which really reduces their effectiveness).

Though on one community server (the hardcore server with a 1.3x damage modifier), there's a server admin who uses his privleges to build MASSIVE hesco wall sloped pillars s into the sky for this sort of thing.

I have a picture of that on Wakistan, even just fighting against it was fun!

Here we go!

TBH, it would be awesome if most/all the large maps had elevated sniper spots for this, like mountains in the distance.

I really miss the Old Basra sniper island!

[compact horizon]

alright, so they were stupid and ontop of buildings. and stayed there. that does not happen often, and an 83 kill streak while sniping at 1k or further with a bolt is not going to happen. 3 min of sniping is not going to change anything is 99% of situations from any kind of distance 800 and up.

so either you were sniping far closer than you said you were, you're lying, or you're cheating. becuase not even talking about skill, the bolting and having to grab ammo will mean it would take alot longer than that, on top of the time it will take to properly aim at that distance.

[stark echo]

Body shots are one-hits at +937m with the M200 (40x scope + bipod) and the Ranger barrel for +10% velocity.

+1100m shots are trivially easy when your enemies barely know you're there, or think you're the lesser threat and ignore you because you can only shoot one guy at a time.

[compact horizon]

so basically you got the 1% luck, and are tryign to use that as evidence that sniping at that distance has "value". got it.

when in actuallity you have no idea.

[stark echo]

I regularly get 30-50 kills out there.

[compact horizon]

thats nothing lol

50 kills is avg

playing up front.

actually on the lower end of average

[stark echo]

30-50 means im doing about as well as most people do in an entire match.

Definitely not THE top number, but it's decent.

[compact horizon]

that is honestly the shittiest lobby I have seen in a while

where the hell you play?

[stark echo]

(That's literally just my last match last night. It's about average for the ones I see.)

[stark echo]

NA west coast

Sometimes i'll hop on east coast servers though

I see about the same across both.

[compact horizon]

anyway, doing average at best is not he best selling point for "value" of being out there and not really helping your team. kills do "help" but very little because of the size of the teams(unless you are playing in smaller servers).

[stark echo]

Oh, and I think it's the ones in Brazil that are AMAZINGLY easy, once you get over having a +150-200ms ping the whole time.

[stark echo]

Well, it's enough to at least prove that you're helping as much as any other average player else is.

So it's a valid way to enjoy the game, which is all the justification that's needed to support anyone with any playstyle that's not out-right cheating/exploiting.

[compact horizon]

still not a valuable use of time, even if it is fun for the player.

the people doing the same as you are likely doing alot more than just killing.

[stark echo]

Just because you don't choose to play this way despite an unnecessary lack of terrain to allow it doesn't give anyone the right to say it shouldn't be supported.

[compact horizon]

for team play its shit.

[stark echo]

This is a videogame sir, it's literal only purpose is to entertain.

[compact horizon]

that is all I am saying

[compact horizon]

you are talking about value to a team.

[stark echo]

Literally NOTHING you do in BBR can be considered a "valuable use of time".

Other than for entertainment value.

[compact horizon]

if you didn't want to bring teamplay into it, don't mention value.

[compact horizon]

ah yes totally talking about IRL vs Gaming.

[stark echo]

Again, this is 100% identically as helpful as rushing right out there and capping a point in person with an SMG.

Why the hate for my equally valid choice of playstyle?

[compact horizon]

and not teamplay vs solo

[stark echo]

Just because im not there in the thick of it doesn't mean im not supporting my team.

[compact horizon]

because that is capping a point, getting the same kills you did, contesting, hunting spawners and so on lol

lot more than just "kill"

[stark echo]

Every kill is objective proof that it's helping to cap a point or take/protect an objective.

The enemy doens't just feed you kills, or let you take a point

[compact horizon]

which in 127 means basically nothing

[stark echo]

so killing them helps.

[stark echo]

Welcome to team play.

[compact horizon]

yeah yoru kills did nothing

[stark echo]

one guy gets 20 kills, he earned his right to say he helped.

[compact horizon]

yeah "helped". big difference in how much they helped.

kills will always be nearworthless unless you are dropping entire squads in seconds

and making sure they stay down

along with actually playing objectives, which at 1k and more is not really gonna happen while sniping

and again, you are trying to make it seem that I am truly again that playstyle. I'm not really, I could care less. But saying it brings team value to playing that way is just a lie.

[stark echo]

My 43/16 did every bit as much as, say, goofy gibby babby's 36/20 on the enemy team in that screenshot I sent.

Saying otherwise is utter BS and you know it.

Who helped more, the 3 guys who sit 50m back and kills 2-4 enemies each before they can kill the guy arming the bomb in frontline, or the guy who armed the bomb?

The 3 guys sitting back on overwatch didn't even set foot in the area, but they absolutely pulled their weight.

Same with every time a sniper saves an ally by shooting a roof camper.

[compact horizon]

"the guy who killed the same guys 30 times, or the guy with 5 kills that contested the point for 5 min"

kills mean little

[stark echo]

Same guy?
I'm hard-pressed to find the same guy twice at +1200m!

[compact horizon]

there is simply too many players for them to mean anything.

[compact horizon]

doesn't really matter, that amount of kills is not changing a front anyway.

[stark echo]

same can be said for some guy in a stalemate shooting the enemy holed up in a door 20m from the cap point.

[compact horizon]

yeah but he's only gonna be there for a min or two, meanwhile the solo sniper is there the entire match.

[stark echo]

10 or 100 kills in a match, right up close or nowhere near, one person alone NEVER makes a difference just by being on the point.

[stark echo]

False.

[compact horizon]

eitherway, kills mean little, and never will mean much of anything over every other aspect of teamplay.

unless you are dropping 100+ or more

[stark echo]

He's gonna be at A for a minute or two, then B for a minute or two, throughout the whole match.

The sniper will be at A as his sights settle on A, then a second later he's at B as he sees A is taken and moves on to look for more enemies with the highground advantage to save allies from.

The solo sniper doens't even have to move more than his scope in order to be helping somewhere else.

[compact horizon]

so, both equally useless.

got it.

[stark echo]

I'd like the number for your drug dealer please.
Clearly, you're getting the stuff that bakes you for days on end! 🤣

[hushed crane]

So

kinda hoping Wakistan's bridge does get more cover on the sides & such

and the under section get expanded some on (Think similar to that train bridge in HL2 around sandtraps)

[stark echo]

1 kill or 200, equally useless on their own when measured only on their own.

Only way to say whether or not they helped is look at the score and the kills, and compare it to the average.

(the guy farming +100 is pretty much just killing the same 10-20 guys by a door over and over as they revive anyway, which means his kills are magnitudes less helpful than a sniper strategically locking down a roof from solo plinkers hoping for an easy kill or two.)

[hushed crane]

(So you have more "Safe" routes and the less safe but possibly faster or such routes)

[compact horizon]

sure man, killing a below average number of enemies helps so much and is so much better than just playing upfront and actually helping with objectives.

[compact horizon]

yeah bridge and C need to have more cover and not such simple designs. more routes up maybe? make C bigger to accommodate?

[stark echo]

"below average" I literally proved it's not with a screenshot.
Care to try another logical fallacy, or do you want to change it up with an actual argument against me?

[hushed crane]

kinda hoping that the center bridge area only has the two bridges for ground access, maybe a cliff ridge (Steeper)

[stark echo]

I'd like more waterway access, as-is, it's kinda useless for attacking the north base.

[compact horizon]

yeah one match despite evidence showing the average is 70+. obviously you haven't been hear long.

[compact horizon]

inside the rock maybe?

[hushed crane]

hmm

[compact horizon]

could work for both the waterway and a cliffside walkway

[hushed crane]

Could do a cave that goes up with a steeper cliff accessway?

with expanding the under section of the bridge as well

[compact horizon]

I'm thinking what about a complex insdie the thing?

[hushed crane]

could do that with the cave

set the point possibly in the cave?

[stark echo]

"Average" in these matches is about 30-35 kills, I'd wager.

These are just literally my last 5 to date (counting the one from before).

THAT is average.
Snipers can easily hit or surpass average.

[hushed crane]

hmm

[compact horizon]

true, but the complex goes up to the top of C

[hushed crane]

Coul dhave two pointsthere

one on the top and one in the caves below

[compact horizon]

base and top?

maybe, but that would mean that are has insanely high value

more points in the fields?

to counter that?

[hushed crane]

True

and good idea

[compact horizon]

could make it like a "3-lane" map

A B C D E, with F being on its own

we could get something similar in the field side

because there is just that much space

[hushed crane]

hmm, so could have the new one be between in the valley area

[stark echo]

I'd like to see more small game-trail and dirt paths between the trees (not just by the river either).

The lack of them is slightly immersion breaking in large forested areas, and they'd provide better vehicle options as well as higher risk areas for players on foot to try to minimize their exposure-time when crossing.

[hushed crane]

Maybe make the middle a fishing village

[compact horizon]

yeha and rework hills and trees, lower F's height to breakup sightlines there

and then something similar the side of F with nothin.

new points of interest

[hushed crane]

hmm

Hunting camp maybe?

could do some undirectional trenches by the bridges

[stark echo]

Tree perches and hunter's blinds would be interesting!

[hushed crane]

have the bridge feature more direct combat, hunting lean to varying ambush points for snipers and such, fishing lean to the water combat & such?

[stark echo]

A bit off topic, but speaking of hunting stuff:

A compound/lever-compound bow (IE, an Oneida "Osprey" or "Phoenix") option as a compliment to the BASR's could be viable weapon options that would benefit from forest area combat (especially with the addition of tree perches and hunting blinds).

[hushed crane]

So suppose the question

purpose in the game mixed with who could have it?

[stark echo]

Sorry, who could have what now?

[twilit blade]

[eternal warren]

This suggestion is just asking Vil to do his thing

[peak dagger]

If waki forced you to play like kingking instead of recon camping F our society would be far more advanced, but the troglodyte recons on F have regressed our society

[mystic shale]

just add more trees duh

[hushed crane]

Purpose in the game + Who would have the bow (Class)

[stark echo]

Ah.
I'd consider it like an integrally suppressed BASR variant for closer ranges, so it'd be a Recon/Leader(?) weapon for sure.

It could easily function like a BASR, but with virtually no sound profile, no reload timer (just an ammo pool), give it significantly better refire time compared to the BASRs, 1x-4x optics only, extreme damage (IE, 90-95) to make up for the painfully low velocity, and give it GREAT handling, and it could be a very solid (if not preferable) alternative out to about 250-350m.

---

IRL, they're actually quite powerful, and anyone who's decently familiar with modern archery knows just how comparable they are to slower firing firearms they can get.

Arrows weigh a LOT more than even a larger projectile, and don't travel at supersonic speed, so the inverse square law applied to air resistance acting against them doesn't even come close to how much energy bullets lose over the same distances.

Bullets (generally) aren't also steel-tipped penetrator rounds by default (while even basic non-broadhead hunting arrows are). For combat, throwing in some tungsten carbide tips along with some counterweighted carbon fiber shafts, and you get a penetrator arrow that can pass through a modern military helmet like a hot knife through butter.

They aren't very useful against hardened steel vehicle armors (though the tungsten would definitely help) or ceramic plate body armors, but soft body armor like kevlar might as well not even be there.

[peak dagger]

This isnt a bow thread gang

[ripe ore]

🏹

[acoustic turret]

sniper we can make a sniper spot in the sky if they want xD

[stark echo]

I've actually seen that happen.

[ripe ore]

As Wakistan Ambassador I'm still waiting for Vil to leak the rework like he promised

[peak dagger]

Honestly, as long as you make it impossible for recons to snipe from F to the bridge im happy

[maiden horizon]

Replace train station with F, remove all dead space around F, move the tank spawns to the team’s spawns (1 per each team) and replace the tanks sitting at f with a additional armed LB spawn + 2 armed humvees/gas tigers