#Rally Point - The Forgotten Game Mechanic

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

warped goblet
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The rally point is, in most battlefield games, a useful mechanic that intersects with map design, leaving the devs an opportunity to give dynamic respawn points to the player that can be countered by anyone if not done right.

Currently, the rally serves no purpose, its problems make it that, when the squad leader remembers that they can use it, its still ineffective and usually not worth the time.

Its a convoluted mechanic who needs several layers of pre-requisites for a mediocre reward at best, its size and audio cue for the enemy makes it not last long enough to be of use, instead, opting to put them in far away camping spots, or what is more normal, not using it and just respawning in a squad teammate / flag.

I can't really say how to fix the rally point but i can lay down the issues that i noticed and some possible solutions, just wanted to leave a list of interconnected issues that make the rally point not useful right now:

  • Rally Point stops working when barely taking damage.

  • Their hitbox / placement area is too large, it can't be placed in most interiors and its size doesn't help with trying to hide it.

  • Audio cues for enemies are too loud and span a larger area than it should.

  • Simple graphics in this game makes easier to spot rally points far away, and more difficult to make them blend in the environment.

  • To be able to place a rally point, you need to be a Leader, and have 1000 squad points, while i understand that these doesn't seem to be a lot of requisites, it doesnt translate to gameplay as intended, squad leaders don't realize that they can use rally points, and the game don't facilitate this task either.

These are all problems that stack on one another and you can't fix the rally point without addressing most of them, i don't think that these are an issue on its own, just how they translate together into gameplay.

Try to keep the discussion on topic, spawning is one of the most crucial mechanics in these types of games.

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lunar hatch
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what if rally points are given for either engineer or recon

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but recon will probably use it for themselves most the time

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the part where the rally point being loud is the interesting part for me because enemy be finding my rally point more often compared to my team finding theirs despite all the noise

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I think the rally point noise could be changed from constant static buzzing to occasional beeping

warped goblet
# lunar hatch but recon will probably use it for themselves most the time

i think it should be put for support or assault class, i know assault its controversial but i really think that its one of the least ones who could abuse it and their speed would help with placing the rally points in weird places, making the gameplay though the map more dynamic

support would be the safe bet, its already the class in charge or defending and staying in the middle ground

junior thunder
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There's a weird delay on the on the spawn beacon and it's instant to spawn on a squad-mate; it should be the other way around. BB_Door

nocturne quartz
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Rally point isnt bad, its just unclear how to deploy it. Its loud noise makes it not something you just place where ever, if you want to use it as a rat spawn to back cap you just place it a bit further. And use buildables to cover it

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Though i wish we had camo buildables so the hideout doesnt stick out as much when placed near greenery

lunar hatch
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sadly no such thing as camo buildable

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best you could do is stack defenses around it or put it at a spot with a single entry point which you could protect with even more defenses

rustic sand
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Most BF games allow snipers to deploy rally points. This makes them MUCH more usuable as a recon instead of purely focusing on sniping

lunar hatch
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sadly the state of some recons in this game

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either they are in spawn or too far from point to even bother being an option to spawn at unless you have no choice

viscid pendant
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^ there are good recons who care about helping the team. Then there’s those that stay in redzone and somehow go 6-10

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For the audio to stay as is (and then potentially look at other forms of spawning if people want to go down that route) I think more people (possibly just everyone in general) should have the ability to place and use relay beacons

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As of right now it’s extremely underused due to the cons it has, and lack of ability for anyone else to place it. Sure it doesn’t cost much (at 200 squad points) but that doesn’t mean shit when the only person who can place it probably doesn’t even know how to squad lead

modern turret
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Indeed

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I hate how the audio cue is loud as fuck

rustic sand
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It should be either big size or loud audio cue, not both

foggy vector
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Honestly the audio cue should stay, as for size it's personally whatever to me

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I wouldnt mind changing the cue itself a bit

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It is indeed quite loud and distinct to ghe point where i have no trouble pinpointing tge exact location the moment i am in hearing range

wary osprey
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the audio cue makes it useless on certain maps no matter what size the actual rp has

foggy vector
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Like i said, wouldnt mind changing it a bit

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Making the sound cue have less range for example

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I swear you can hear that thing from about 100 meters away

echo elbow
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nerf the audio cue distance for sure. or have the sound be muffled/reduced by walls and such. Would make it much more viable on some of the maps

warped goblet
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Nerf both, there is no reason why the audio cue should stay past 100mts, it should be decreasing in a logarithmic scale

The size makes it difficult to hide, if the rally is a special feature that costs a lot of points we need to be able to protect it, hidding rally's always was a skill in battlefield games

whole musk
warped goblet
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Will get warned but fuck it @chilly sable

chilly sable
viscid pendant
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??? There is no need for a forced spawn time, let the community servers have what they want

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Most of the spawn time complaints come from people joining community servers, where people prefer low respawn time as part of the settings. They already have a solution: uncheck community official progression so that they only queue for official servers with longer respawn times

wary osprey
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official servers few sec counters aren't high either

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and low respawn timer creates tons of issues in the game balance even if ppl like it

viscid pendant
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Nuking that option at the expense of player enjoyment isn’t a good solution though.

wary osprey
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no it isn't

viscid pendant
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It’s the same thing I told slaz with OCE. If people truly didn’t like certain settings and prefer official for this reason, why don’t they band together and make an official generate?

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But back on the topic of relays, I don’t think reducing squad sizes would make them more practical either (especially given.. you know.. squad point costs, creating a new squad = you start at zero and if you have a clueless SL and it isn’t the start of the game you’re basically never getting it)

foggy vector
wary osprey
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reducing squad size means less players to spawn on and easier to wipe

viscid pendant
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Im going off the assumption they plan to remove squad spawning with relay changes in mind

wary osprey
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So I can see their reasoning

viscid pendant
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My bad, should have clarified

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plus clan squads, that’s another thing to note too. Granted yes they go unused 90% of the time cause nobody wants to stack

wary osprey
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haven't seen a clan squad go above 4 in a while

viscid pendant
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Ive seen a few 6+ ones this past month, mainly on conquest

chilly sable
# viscid pendant Im going off the assumption they plan to remove squad spawning with relay change...

we wont remove squad spawning on any level. The squad in Battlebit for now purpose only one reason - fast respawn anywhere possible.

There is many options that we need to examine and test to see how it will affect the game and in with side.

Leave fast respawn as its currently, and just make next changes:

In my opinion the most easy fix to meaning of life and make player stick together - its lowering squad member count from 8 to 5 players. Due there will be much less options to spawn somewhere, they will play less risky to make sure whole squad can survive longer.
If all squad members will die often - they will lose ability to have quick comeback to battlefield and have to do some travel from objective.

So even at massive chokepoints that involve 250 players, it will be much easy to move forward by wipe squad one by one.

And i'm personally would like to make a clan squad cap to 8 players, but with longer respawn time and ability to spawn on squad leader and/or rally point (With will have less noise over distance due of new Audio Occlusion system). So casual players wont care about our complex squad mechanics, while advanced players who stick in clan will have some level of challenge.

But again, everything described above its just a example and my personal opinion that is not confirmed on any level!

foggy vector
chilly sable
flat needle
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is the in combat tag tied to the minor suppresion system you have?

foggy vector
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And yeah, dying after you spawn is still a bit of an issue

flat needle
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you think that's maybe because he was on the drone?

foggy vector
flat needle
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true. found a bug not many would even notice

foggy vector
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Does remind me, should prolly put that where it belongs

flat needle
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so we need a working 20 meter radius that blocks spawns because of enemy presence
the bug you found
and an "in-combat" tag that applies to a friendly when they are shot at not just hit, possibly tied to the suppression system.
sound about right so far?

foggy vector
wary osprey
wary osprey
chilly sable
wary osprey
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i dont have to search for anything? just click squads top to bottom till i get one that is in action. 100 times faster than regrouping with your current squad

chilly sable
wary osprey
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ye its a bit harder but i bet it will still happen a lot

foggy vector
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Would have to be tested

foggy vector
maiden halo
# chilly sable we wont remove squad spawning on any level. The squad in Battlebit for now purpo...

In my opinion the most easy fix to meaning of life and make player stick together - its lowering squad member count from 8 to 5 players. Due there will be much less options to spawn somewhere, they will play less risky to make sure whole squad can survive longer.

This is unfortunately not true and short sighted. They will just leave a squad a squadhop to a new one to find a new player to spawn off of. The respawn time should be enforced (not lowered on community servers) and leaving a squad should lock you out of joining a new one for 30 seconds. I believe that this would be a positive change to the gameplay and encourage squadplay.

viscid pendant
maiden halo
viscid pendant
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Most do not care for it cause they wanted a battlefield like experience

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Not squd, arma, etc.

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Arcade players (happens to be a lot because again, they saw “battle bit” and thought it would play like BF) will not stick around if they have to overrely on teammates.

Teamwork is important, sure. But forcing it won’t sit well with players.

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We already had a change and you saw some people leave because of it, if you remember the gromp situation (which, funnily enough, revovled around teamplay)

maiden halo
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Teamwork and squadplay and class based gameplay is everything. It sounds like you just want to play singleplayer in a game with 254 players.

lunar hatch
foggy vector
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Slazenger doesnt realise that people who genuently dont like playing on fast respawn servers can just... leave. And join another one that is more to their taste. Other than themselves there is nothing stopping you from just switching servers. I've been doing this for a while now. Oh, whats that, frontline? I'm literally 2-4 clicks away from getting into another server and play conquest.

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Players arent stupid enough to be physically unable to just switch servers

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Dont force respawn timers

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As for squad hopping, well, it is an issue, and probably deserves a cooldown before switching squads, but allow community servers in turn to change the cooldown, same as the respawn timer

echo elbow
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If the player count doesn't pick back up, community servers = the servers for the game. There aren't always officials to hop onto for every size/mode.

hushed pine
hushed pine
whole musk
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Do squad leaders get points if someone spawns on the rally?

viscid pendant
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No

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Rally is only used as a make shift “flag” type of spawn point and offers no other benefits

whole musk
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Well then I think giving points for squadmate spawns would be nice

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But like some people said, a big problem is that SLs just forget they exist

echo elbow
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I frequently miss the notification that I'm switched to SL in the heat of the battle. Until I try to call a supply drop and realize my pings are different. Probably also a contributing factor

warped goblet
hasty oasis
candid creek
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I just want them to fix the exploit in Cash Run and bring that mode back!

flat needle
warped goblet
flat needle
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make it a gadget, give to assault/medic?

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just saying medic because they should be on the front line just not right next to the enemy

hasty oasis
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I would accept everything but recon

modern turret
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Engineer and assault are the best options imo

hasty oasis
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I can see support, engineer, medic and assault (Each got their ups and downs) but could do a new rally that is smaller & have it be assault's (Have it be wave based, so it ticks to a spawn & you can select it to join the spawn wave) be more attacking flavored and give support/engineer a more defensive outpost one (More durable and harder to disable the spawns by shooting, with similar respawn mechanics as of now, costs supply & is a constructible)

flat needle
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that would be a cool gadget rather than a buildable, different rallies each with their own advantages and disadvantages per class. but now the problem is, this would mean every squad could have eight rallies. or have the rally slot wasted by someone else that you can't do anything about until you spawn on it and unbuild it.

scarlet hatch
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if this happens (which i hope) squad spawning better be gutted

hasty oasis
flat needle
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that doen't exacty fix the "SL has no idea how to use the tally" problem

hasty oasis
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True, be it the defensive isn't limited to SL Only

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SL has no idea route ; best guess is UI Elements (One to make it easily known you are the SL and the second to encourage you to open the build menu)

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afterwards give XP per spawn at the rally

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so adds a more personal reason to use the rally similar to planetside 2 Sundies

flat needle
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then we run into the oppostie problem

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the whole squad has access to the rally

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and if we limit it like buildables, then what's stopping someone dropping it for themselves in a random spot? I can see the 1k and above recons grabbing a class to place one down in their spot and just screw over the others in the squad by using the one rally slot.

hasty oasis
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Well the offensive would be limited I image

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but the defensive could possibly be less limited

flat needle
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limited range to what? the players?

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how would that work?

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like its a spawner, not a jammer or trophy, what "range" is there?

hasty oasis
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Defensive is a placeable using squad points so could be done via cost or max cap

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also where you get range?

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equally not saying every class gets all of these

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I could see two or three

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but not all

flat needle
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that still doesn't fix the problem of everyone having them. unless the become like Battlefield beacons

hasty oasis
flat needle
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so one player has it, and its the same problem

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or more players have it, and it needs to be treated like the BF beacon

hasty oasis
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because so far my idea is literally
Offensive Rally - Wave based squad spawns & tied to assault ; gets replaced by the next one placed and is smaller than the defensive rally

Defensive Rally - Team spawns similar to now & tied to engineer and/or support with increased durability (Possibly make it immune to small arms fire) with a squad point cost (Possibly a cap per squad or cost increases for each new one)

flat needle
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if it is split, "defensive" should be the buildable. and offensive be the gadget like BF

hasty oasis
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defensive is a buildable with this idea pretty much

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Costs squad points

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with the rally being a gadget or default in the kit of a assault like bandages are

flat needle
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defensive it meant to have more value and hold a point so it makes sense its a semi-permanent buildable. while the offensive being the easy to destroy beacon that the squad has access too(as a gadget), placing one beacon destroys the previous beacon(maybe have it die when the placer dies?)

hasty oasis
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I feel having it die when placer dies is not the best idea

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Just feels like it would massively reduce the usefulness of it when it already has the wave spawn mechanic

flat needle
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if it was one person having it sure

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but eight players can have one

hasty oasis
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you only get one at a time in a squad

flat needle
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at leat with how I mentioning it.

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meaning little downtime to placeit

hasty oasis
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True

flat needle
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first guy dies the other sevon also have one to place if they want

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it worked in bf, but I am a bit iffy on it

hasty oasis
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Keep in mind

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This thing is delicate

flat needle
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then again it worked with 4 dudes in 64 player severs

hasty oasis
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it is also wave based spawning

flat needle
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wave? since when?

hasty oasis
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in the idea

flat needle
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also the rally is supposed to be brittle

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rallys are short term spawn points

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or supposed to be

hasty oasis
flat needle
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ah I missed that

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I don't know about wave based spawning for a squad sized element

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maybe if it was team based or the squads were larger

hasty oasis
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the idea in my head is the offensive one is short lived at best & useful more for the attack while having it's own issues, while the defensive is more for holding down areas

flat needle
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then again that allows the enemy to push

hasty oasis
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Yep

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which is why I gave the offense that

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Encourages teamwork & gives a window of counter attack

flat needle
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but wave based spawners require communication or else it might spawn like 1 dude wasting a wave

hasty oasis
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true

flat needle
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I think if its wave based it should be for larger groups not squad sized

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unless the waves are very short

hasty oasis
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keep in mind

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squads are 8 people or more

flat needle
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then again at that point i don't think it would change much

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yeah 8 is not that much

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think max is 12?

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with comms wave would work great

hasty oasis
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I am thinking clan is 12

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keep in mind the wave intervals would be constantly ticking 9/10

flat needle
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but otherwise it will be placed, 1-2 people will use a wave and now you got a second respawn timer for it

flat needle
hasty oasis
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or squad

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Figured the idea would be a good balance point for it since it is expendable

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if a squad does good with it, they can push it up every so often and use it quite effectively

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where the defensives were made with the idea of letting you get reinforcements easily to a point to stop a attack (possibly)

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and of course it could be used as more a forward operating base for a team if defended

flat needle
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that last one might be better for the 'defensive"....

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we just fucking remade HLL Garrison and rally system didn't we?

hasty oasis
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Pretty much

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Guess the phrase use what works comes to mind

flat needle
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yeah that is fair