#⭐ Commander role & Squad Leader changes

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

west lynx
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Right now there isn't much interesting gameplay for people who want to lead, as most don't listen/communicate and you only gain access to a rally point as a squad leader, so I'm gonna suggest some changes and a new role for people who enjoy leading. Feel free to suggest more stuff you find interesting.

> Commander role
Once you reach a certain prestige level (perhaps level 3 or 2), a new option will appear in the squad selection menu. Once clicked, after 20 seconds you will be granted the Commander role, and you will be able to watch other squads or resign from the menu. (img 1)

  • Commander rally point
    You are able to place a rally point for the entire team if there are no enemies within 10m and at least 5 teammates within 50m. It will stay up for 1-2 minutes max, and has a cooldown of 5 minutes once destroyed (the cooldown time is up to discussion). It's automatically destroyed if it's swarmed by enemies, or if the commander is not close to it for 10 seconds.

  • Commander objective
    You can place a small temporary capture point anywhere on the playable map, that is only visible for teammates. It lasts for 1-2 minutes, and if it's captured by the team, every squad gets squad points, and the people that captured get extra xp. Cooldown of 5-10 minutes. I believe this is a great way to control the flow of the game by using it in key moments. (img 2)

  • Commander markers
    The CO can place or remove special temporary markers on the map, visible to all players. It's accessible through the squad menu, when you right click on the map. They appear on the screen just like ping icons when you get close enough. I thought of 3 basic markers (infantry, sniper, rally point) but there could be more. (img 3)

  • Drawbacks
    You can only use the default class when playing as CO, and you get a 30 second penalty for dying. Dying costs the team 10-50 tickets. Also, once spotted by an enemy, you get a special marker on the map and stay spotted for longer. Be careful.

Continuation...

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> Squad Leader

  • SL markers
    Squad leaders can also place the same markers as the commander, but with a cooldown between them. They can't erase markers.

  • Area Attack
    Only squad leaders can call for an area attack in a certain area. It can be called through the comm wheel. The area attack must be accepted or rejected by the current Commander. It's automatically accepted after 30 seconds if it's not rejected. The entire team has 1 area attack with a 10 minute cooldown.
    The dev can decide what the area attack does, but I suggest a barrage of explosives falling from the sky.

  • SL spots
    When a SL spots an enemy it will last for much longer. However, being spotted also last for longer.

  • Resigning a Commander
    Squad leaders can vote to resign the current CO. If majority wins, the CO gets resigned and someone else can apply.

west lynx
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⭐ Commander role & Squad Leader changes

small turret
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Bruh 10-50 tickets?

small turret
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That way you force commanders to sit in.a corner somewhere

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probably

primal smelt
small turret
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that would be better

west lynx
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I feel like 10 is enough to give a reason for the enemy to hunt the commander down and force him to stay in the backlines. It's not supposed to be a gunplay role. You can also use drones to know what's going on and spot enemies.

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Yeah, 50 is too much

west lynx
chrome stirrup
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this sounds very cool though it makes much more sense to tie it to active playtime rather than prestige imo

west lynx
chrome stirrup
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Which admittedly is not well tracked right now, but I think it should be

west lynx
frank talon
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Prestige lvl is not a valid criteria for commander role as prestige level can be farmed fast on small maps. Active gameplay time --> experience should be the factor for those who want to play as one.

junior hinge
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or just let it be a role that people ask for at the start, random select, and vote out if doing nothing

chrome stirrup
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I don’t think we can rely on the players to 1. Vote at all, and 2. Vote fairly

junior hinge
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better than relying on "total playtime" or rank, or prestige

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and to be honest, people not voting/ not voting fairly would not be too big of a problem anyway. not alot of players would want to play as commander unless they like supporting the team.

chrome stirrup
junior hinge
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and that would be stupid as the only way to change commanders

winged stream
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the reason that the commander role works in Squad is because that game and its core encourages teamwork and punish solo players (ecxept DMRs and Snipers).

west lynx
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Democracy doesnt work when people are dumb

junior hinge
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and an automated roll would be fucking stupid and allow trolls to keep the roll by spamming in areas that don't help the team.

chrome stirrup
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areas that don't help is quantifiable.

junior hinge
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because not doing anything is one thing, please tell me how it will figure out any other way.

chrome stirrup
# junior hinge ok so define it. define how an automated system will find out exactly what "not ...

Could be super simple and still pretty effective. Rally points more than x% of the map length away from y number of players could be not considered valid spawn locations, and same thing could be used for capture points but this would also require friendlies. An error metric could be measured based on this idea and used to measure that person's actions more broadly. If someone persistently placed these things in worse locations (had an abnormally high error) they could be temporarily banned from the role. For the markers it would be trivial as you could literally just check if they were marking areas with the relevant units in them.

junior hinge
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yeah and define "worse"

chrome stirrup
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I literally did

junior hinge
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what you are saying is that the only thing they would detect is if... they place rally's and pings within 50 meters of players

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fucking useless

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nothing there would be good for an automated system

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a automated vote to remove maybe

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but not automated removal

chrome stirrup
junior hinge
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no it really wouldn't

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because that would be fucking useless to do

chrome stirrup
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The only issue I can see is accounting for waki bridge

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useless how?

junior hinge
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useless because placing them near friendliess is stupid

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the role is commander

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not squad lead

chrome stirrup
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placing team wide rally points, it should be mandatory for them to be near friendlies.

junior hinge
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no

chrome stirrup
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otherwise you could just place them right behind all the enemies

junior hinge
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they wouldn't just spawn you dunce

chrome stirrup
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Could add that to the error metric (time where they have not done a specific action)

junior hinge
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if anything dropping a supply crate to build, or airdrop a spawn point would work

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and no

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because those types of gambits are also what makes playing a commander fun

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you're "automated error-metric system" is stupid

chrome stirrup
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an instant flank-the-whole-enemy-team button isn't really a gambit

junior hinge
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it would either make commander utterly useless beyond SL

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or do nothing

chrome stirrup
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where did you get the idea it'd be binary from?

junior hinge
chrome stirrup
junior hinge
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if its airdropped , people have these things called eyes

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if they ignore it, that's their problem

chrome stirrup
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the post did not say they would fall from the sky

junior hinge
junior hinge
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which of course you would ignore for the shitty system you are trying to add.

chrome stirrup
chrome stirrup
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needing to be built by friendlies would still mean it should be near friendlies, airdropped then I would remove that requirement

junior hinge
junior hinge
chrome stirrup
junior hinge
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because simply "spawning something" is stupid and only an idiot would think that was what was going to happen.

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Like I said, common sense.

chrome stirrup
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That was partially why I wanted to restrict it to being placed near teammates.

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So it couldn’t just appear behind enemy lines

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It would appear near players as though they’d constructed it

junior hinge
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which is honestly boring and not really all that useful

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because squad rallies

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and squad spawns

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and point spawns.

chrome stirrup
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I agree that it wouldn’t be major

junior hinge
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dropping a new rally near players is very niche

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and would make the role useless

chrome stirrup
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That was not the only part of the proposal we’re discussing

junior hinge
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it was a major part of yours.

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not that anything you said was good

chrome stirrup
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My rough outline for moderating the role referenced the points that were discussed in the main proposal.

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Being able to place objectives and mark enemy troop formations are also relevant parts of the proposal

junior hinge
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your moderation system is shit

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and both of your "practical" uses would make the roll useless

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at that point a SL with a drone can do the same.

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its a commander role.

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not SL but can mark maps role.

chrome stirrup
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Note that I never commented on how impactful I thought this role would be on gameplay, or how impactful I think it should be.

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I just provided reasoning relevant to the concept OP seemed to have in mind.

junior hinge
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so now its the "I never noted exactly how effective this role should be, so just ignore my stupid ideas" argument.

chrome stirrup
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I think my ideas were sensible.

junior hinge
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no they really aren't for a commander role

chrome stirrup
# junior hinge at that point a SL with a drone can do the same.

I would definitely argue that statement is just wrong, though. A squad leader can’t allow respawns for the entire team on them, nor can they create objectives and the pings they could get with a drone require their allies already seeing the enemy to even be visible.

junior hinge
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and again, your "automated system" is either making the role useless, or is useless in itself.

junior hinge
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enough said.

chrome stirrup
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I don’t think that is enough said

junior hinge
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and your "ideas" want the new respawn to be right next to friendlies

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meaning practically useless outside of one team fight.

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and is nullified by 2 of the 3 other respawn systems.

chrome stirrup
chrome stirrup
junior hinge
chrome stirrup
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Placing objectives or rally points in an empty corner of the map seems useless.

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I specified restrictions because you wanted to know how I thought we could measure trolling. Placing things in useless spots fits that bill to me.

junior hinge
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objectives, mostly. rally point at the edge of the map? also useless.

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either way, both are possible for SL's. so your system would again be very stupid.

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might as well have nothing but arena lane maps then.

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only allowing placement near friendlies? also uselss

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redundant, and 2 systems already cover that.

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not near enemies? free spotting mechanic, and also nullifies any help a commander can be for the majority of the game.

chrome stirrup
chrome stirrup
junior hinge
junior hinge
chrome stirrup
chrome stirrup
junior hinge
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because that exists.

chrome stirrup
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I don’t really know what you mean. It isn’t as though players from across the map will come together to discuss where the enemies are so the commander can put their positions on the map.

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People don’t talk much and very rarely convey useful info when they do.

junior hinge
# chrome stirrup What’s HLL?

HLL is another half arcade/halfsim game. more realistic than block game. easy point of reference for a commander, garrisons(team spawns) and map markers.

junior hinge
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which would be enough. that should honeslty be more the SL's jobs, with the commander placing objectives on hot spots.

chrome stirrup
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That could work. But also seems kinda useless, I see where you were coming from earlier

junior hinge
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the commander is not really meant to be all knowing. its a support role. if people don't talk to the commander, then its not going to be able to do much. which is also the point.

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we want more team play in the game. that's the whole point.

chrome stirrup
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What it’s meant to be is both flexible and open for debate. But I don’t think it’s realistic to think there can be enough communication in this game for that to work well. I don’t think adding a feature anything less than game-changing that relies on communication will do anything to actually incentivise it, making it questionable that it will be more than a waste of dev time.

junior hinge
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map markers alone being added to SLs would work

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it works fine in HLL, even if nobody actually talks.

west lynx
# junior hinge useless because placing them near friendliess is stupid

The original idea was just to simply provide a temporary advanced spawn point for allies to keep pressure on a region or support a flank operation. The commander is NOT supposed to be adventuring behind enemy lines alone, if you really want a rally behind enemies you could talk to another squad (or just scream in close voice chat) and organize a helicopter rush to build a rally behind the enemies.

west lynx
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squad leaders can mark too btw, so the leaders can simply watch where allies died and mark it

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I thought the default class had drones, ig the commander should only have access to the sniper class then (or maybe a new leader class for both SL and CO)