Bleed Rework

[pallid tapir]

As we already know, bleeding will be removed next update. It is something I don't really agree with, as bleed is a pretty neat disengaging mechanic. However, it is very annoying, given you can be afflicted by it several times in a row, wasting precious bandages.
As of writing this, I am really not sure this time how to exactly change it. I would at least:

• Keep the "Should I go and bandage myself or to push on before bandaging for another kill" choice with the player
• Make it not trigger several times in a row

This should be more of a community effort if anything else, so yeah go for it.

[ornate lark]

So, do you think we should have, for example, a cooldown of x seconds before bleed can be triggered again?

[mighty cape]

would be way better than just removing it

[pallid tapir]

Perhaps. A cooldown of 3-5 seconds seems reasonable.
That or change the threshold or the criteria of when it triggers. Currently to my knowledge, bleed triggers when you get below 40 HP, but im not sure, its pretty inconsistent imo

[ornate lark]

It is 40hp

There’s no way a simple comparison like that can be inconsistent outside of specifically implemented exceptions to that, of which I’ve heard of none

[spiral geyser]

it's very common for you to show up and bleed right away. That's minus two bandages. Or just a random bullet from a kilometer away, also immediately minus 2 bandages. It's really annoying. There are times when you get to the battle and you have 3-1 bandages left. And it also very much disrupts the pace of the game.

I'd try removing them and see what happens.

[ornate lark]

Honestly, do we even need a limit to how many times you can bandage

It’s not hard to get more as is, but just an inconvenience

[spiral geyser]

and then there's no point in bandages at all, it's just artificially slowing down gameplay

I'm more in favor of removing the bandages. At least to see what happens

[pallid tapir]

Does feel at times that i dont bleed when below 40, could be tripping
Whatever the case is, 40 HP is a bit too high
25-30 would be much better
Or as said before, a cooldown of 3-5 seconds before you can bleed again

[pallid tapir]

Just curious, when you say to remove bandages, would you then opt for regenerating health or something else in turn

[spiral geyser]

I think regeneration, but not immediately. Plus we need to make the medic a more effective hit than he has now. I'm looking at the BF3 reference, of course.

[pallid tapir]

I see, thanks for clarifying

[ornate lark]

I don’t relate to you seeing that as a bad thing

What’s wrong with having to dedicate some time to healing? It’s a tradeoff

Game is already too fast in a semi-objective sense, in that most players complain about it

[spiral geyser]

Well you could make the hidden life recovery timer the same as the timer for using a bandage or two. And everything would stay exactly the same, except you wouldn't have to press any extra buttons

the timings will remain the same. (at least in my mind).

once you've taken damage, you can't run any farther. You just won't need to press "3" and then get angry that you healed someone else and not yourself.

And an auto-life recovery timer would be like bandaging.

[ornate lark]

No, because you’d still be able to be fighting at the same time

The point of bandaging is to force you to not be sprinting around killing people 100% of the time

[craggy crow]

As you think about possible mechanical differences, if bleeding feels inconsistent right now, imagine what it would feel like with invisible timers that you didnt theorize.

[ornate lark]

That is a genuine issue though

[spiral geyser]

Honestly, I don't see the problem. A guy who risks his life should be rewarded. I don't claim that my position is the only correct one, but I think it is.

If you have HP left to spit but decide to run, be prepared to die quickly

[spiral geyser]

Indication on the screen as blood?

[craggy crow]

One other note, bleeding is single focal point but the purpose it serves, and the mechanics that feed in it are not isolated. Bleeding feels inconsistent because of things like ,damage fall off, UI feedback, audio, combat legibility and even map design dips its toes into the situation. One thread cannot be pulled with out impact the rest

[spiral geyser]

Will the game get faster? Probably yes. But there will also be many moments when you kill a guy with the 1st bullet because he didn't find a medic or didn't sit in silence. It'll just take away the need to press the 3 key. Well 80% of the time that's the only thing that would change. That's my guess

I also watched video reviews on youtube where many reviewers complained about the bleeding and how this mechanic looks out of place here.

[craggy crow]

I also do not enjoy bleeding, but I am confident the out right vacuum removal of bleeding will cause the game to be less legible to a new player, and even the average player. I believe bleedings "real" purpose was to do two things, 'force' team work and slow the pace of player movement on the map. The later of those has been removed when banadages health, health speed and count were increase for all players because it failed to meet the requirements.

That leaves us with the pacing factor which my train of thought just fucking vanished god damnit

I was cooking, then boom, no more power

RIGHT that leaves us with the pacing factor which, its only a.. minor subset of. Removing a bleed out right will introduce a substantial amount of healing power on average per player, that 1-2 bandages people have mentioned translates to a pretty substantial value when looked at team wide. However, flat out healing in flation is fairly irrelevant CURRENTLY because of health pools and effective time to kill. If you removing bleeding as it stands, things will speed up somewhat but the umbrella of instant ttk will largely keep it in check.

[spiral geyser]

From personal experience, I tried to get two friends into the game and both of them were annoyingly bleeding. I didn't ask, but in discord they explicitly gave me an extremely negative opinion of the mechanics. I wouldn't be surprised if that was one of the reasons. They left the game (but a long time ago, before the update break)

[craggy crow]

I believe that frustration with bleeding is a larger indicator of the games lacking combat legibility and unfortunately, its just the irritation icing ontop. Instead of just being dead outright because of very low damage fall off, huge sight lines, very accurate weapons, they get the only clear visual indicator in the game of having made "a mistake"

[spiral geyser]

Oh, shit. I'm only considering removing the bleeding in conjunction with bandage removal. That's my mistake. If I remove only the bleeding, but leave the self-healing with just the bandages? Or was everyone already talking about it and I was the only one flying in my dreams...?

[burnt stream]

Palma keeps taking Ws with these suggestions

[craggy crow]

Bleeding its self is like, 5? damage per tick , maybe but it tells the player PANIC RUN HIDE FREAK OUT in an attempt to communicate urgency in situations where, theres no actual urgency.

[burnt stream]

Oh also with no bleed it absolutely destroys frag rpg

[craggy crow]

There has been no indication bandages would be removed or changed along side bleeding removal. I am guessing thats because theres no concrete plan, but all we know is "removing bleed"

[burnt stream]

And grenades

[pallid tapir]

Isnt bleed a set timer before you die?
Cant be tripping about that

[craggy crow]

I am fairly confident its a damage value. Delaying bandaging different amounts of time results in a different total health

[pallid tapir]

I never tested it myself, but it always appeared as a timer

[burnt stream]

Bleed mechanic needs to be toned down slightly for weapons but increased for fragmentation weapons

[craggy crow]

The perception of time vs damage of time is, difficult to discern. I am basing my assumption off of bandaging after being shot many, many many times and delaying the healing. AFter x amount of seconds you die either way

[burnt stream]

Frag rpg is only useful for inducing bleed, making the enemy disengage and provide an opportunity for your teamates to secure the assist for you

I think about >85% of my frag rpg kills is forcing the enemy to retreat and gaining the assist when pushing the enemy

Bleed mechanic is essential for fragmentation weapons

[craggy crow]

before i fuck off and do my actual day job. The current effective time to death in battlebit vastly kneecaps health, bleeding and resing's impact on the game due to the relative low value it provides. Until there is a larger play time for these mechanics to act in, we will see limited returns on changes.

[pallid tapir]

Perhaps we should ask someone on the specifics of how bleed works before we delve deeper into this, terminal maybe? He did provide what accuracy and control actually do one time

[burnt stream]

Honestly still think bleed damage per tick should increase with fragmentation weapons

[burnt stream]

@granite wharf can we have some more insight in the bleed mechanic?

[granite wharf]

like how it works?

[pallid tapir]

Yes

We are not sure how it works, so some insight would be nice

[granite wharf]

i gotta look back into it since its been so long

[craggy crow]

I am somewhat confident it is any damage that takes you below the 50HP threshold and any further damage while under that will refresh the bleed timer. If you can get the behind the scenes look through that'd be dank

Bandages heal 50 hp so we no longer really experience the low hp instances

[pallid tapir]

True

Best to hold off on for a bit om this before we actually discuss proper changes to it

Like lets just make sure we know for sure how bleed works

[craggy crow]

Ehh you kinda dont need to when discussing how you want it to work. The current actual mechanic, like if it triggers at 49 hp on tuesdays with quick mags, doesnt change how it feels as a player. The more impactful thing we can do (in my opinion as always) is explain why something feels bad, and how it impacts our gameplay and decision making.

but some good ol fashion arm chair dev discussion is hard to resist

[pallid tapir]

Personally i like to make sure both parties can get some things straight before engaging in a proper discussion and how it impacts the game overall. Doesnt hurt to know how bleed exactly works beforehand. Maybe some things will get cleared up alongside it

[craggy crow]

You an alright noodle Palma Bolp

Also i just now realized your last name IS NOT bob its been like, 7? months

[burnt stream]

Ive been saying palma bob is entire time

[crisp river]

Maybe below a threshold, but with a somewhat low chance to occur? Maybe below 50 health, at a 15% chance?

[mossy karma]

one thing i thought about is to make it something that makes your combat worse in general
remember people saying about adding supression but oki said thatit rewards you for missing? bleed has the potential to be an actual supression mechanic
making so type of weapons can make your treshold for starting to bleed higher while others to be lowered

sniper rifles, lmgs and prob mmgs having the highest treshold to start bleed, while smgs, ars, brs having it a lower chance

you could make so your ads gets nerfed while bleeding, nerf the damage it takes overall or make so it goes away after sometime, you get worse in combat but death isnt certain if you run out of bandages

but though i would prefer even something close to this if medic didnt suck ass

[mighty cape]

sounds like a good idea but i would prefer bleeding killing the player

the entire point is risking dying or getting a(nother) kill. If i know im not going to die and am better than the one shooting me i can fight him with basically no pressure

having that mental bleeding timer in your head makes this way more risky

[pallid tapir]

This is a good idea, tho like haro, id prefer if bleed just killed you
Also, i wont want snipers to have one of the highest bleed thresholds, if bleed were to be a suppression mechanic of sorts
Should have a decent threshold but not the highest

[mossy karma]

im cool with that ideia aswell, but i think it is a neat way to make lmgs be something more than an AR with more ammo, but i think there can be a balance for both of it

nerf to ads is what comes to mind, if you are fighting a lmg or any gun for that matter behind cover, the slower ads can make your job at killing him much harder, but close range you can still match him in ttk

[mossy karma]

true honestly

[pallid tapir]

Also, guns on stuff like humvees, gas tigers and blackhawks could use higher thresholds a lot

[mossy karma]

honestly if medic starts to get some buff i could see bleed getting back and getting a rework

but as for now i think the ,majority of ideias here would make the life of anyone that isnt a medic or assault and support much worse lol

[frigid sail]

just throwing ideas out there, bleeding gets removed, but bandaging gets reworked to start a slow self heal and receiving damage will stop the healing until the use of another bandage - still encouraging players to take cover and use caution while recovering. its like a traditional arcade-style passive heal, but you have to manually activate it with a limited resource.

[mighty cape]

so instead of +50hp you start a +~2hp/sec regen that can heal up to 100hp?

[misty carbon]

If the healing is too slow though it could become just another time waster, waiting like ~50 secs to full heal and not wanting to get shot in that time is a bit long.

Could work depending on the heal rate I suppose

[spiral geyser]

nobody's gonna do that. Just like now they will use 2 bandages and run on.

it would be useful if 1 bandage heals you to..... 89 HP or so.

so I don't have to use another

[pallid tapir]

Id leave this as a last resort kinda change if oki for some reason really hates bleed

[granite wharf]

.

[pallid tapir]

O

[granite wharf]

🤫

[grizzled thistle]

I think a good way to rework bleed would be to make it more consistent and more of a viable risk/reward option. There are two things I would suggest to do this:

1. Make healing yourself from bleed bring you up to a constant health, regardless of the amount of damage you took that caused you to bleed, ~75 hp would make sense. This will make bleeding less tedious because you wont feel forced to use two bandages in every situation. Instead you can decide if you want to take another fight at lower health before bandaging again.
2. Make the amount of time before taking DoT from a bleed consistent. Right now it feels arbitrary how long you can last without bandaging yourself from a bleed. Making this timer constant allows for players to learn to subconsciously track how long they have until they have to bandage.

[mighty cape]

I don't really see the point in 1. but 2. sounds good

[pallid tapir]

Yeah consistent bleed times would be nice

[ornate lark]

If it's not constant right now, what is it?

whatever it is, "arbitrary" definitely isn't it

how long you can last just depends on your hp, as far as I know

[grizzled thistle]

Obviously its not arbitrary but it's not clear what causes it

I dont think its just the amount of health you have when you started to bleed

[grizzled thistle]

The point is to make it more likely that you will want to take the risk of being able to take one or two fewer bullets before you die in the next fight. Right now you will sometimes bandage and be at 50 or 60 hp, which would almost always make you want to bandage twice. At something like 70-80 hp it would be more viable to bandage once more often.

[mighty cape]

75hp is still low enough for 2 and at 85hp you would gain quite a lot of hp from one bandage

[grizzled thistle]

yep

[pallid tapir]

Perhaps combining some of these suggestions together is the way to go

[feral sundial]

I've literally suggested just making it so bleed can't be triggered within like 5 seconds of being triggered the first time or something similar, or make it so it's just a % chance the lower your hp is, OR make it so it's more based on damage given rather than hp thresholds. Like snipers and lmgs could cause bleed really easy (high chance due to high damage/big gun go brrrr)

High bleed chance would be a fantastic replacement for a suppression mechanic for snipers and lmgs

But the issue with bleed currently is that it is CONSTANT. It's annoying af. Instead of an hp threshold I think it would be better to make each gun have a base bleed chance that's affected by whoever you're shooting at's hp value

So example, lmg has a bleed chance modifier of like 1.25 (increased bleed chance by 25%). Now say you get shot by said lmg. Assuming you're at 100hp your bleed chance is currently 0%, but maybe after 50hp your bleed chance becomes 25%. When you're hit by said lmg the modifier is multiplied to the 25% now giving you a 57% (rounded up) bleed chance on that hit taken. Add in a bleed check cooldown of like 2 seconds upon failure to cause bleed, 5 seconds after successfully bleeding and bandaging and boom, you've got bleed that makes sense and shouldn't be as annoying if properly tuned

The values could be tweaked, it could just be a hard bleed chance value on your hp rather than it going up as your hp lowers, but point is there are really obvious ways to fix it that can serve the same purpose and add more depth to the game! If you add a bleed chance stat that's shown to the players everyone will understand "oh, if I use this gun I'll bleed people more".

Combine this with making it more clear how long you have till you start taking DOT from bleed, and making bandaging slower again (it's just too fast, so rather than a risk I feel like I'm taking it feels like I should just do it asap everytime) and I think bleeding could be very fun as a system and really add some tension to battles

TLDR: change bleed from a threshold to a % chance. Give guns a bleed chance stat with lmgs being highest to give them a role. Give bleed a cooldown time each time a bleed check happens to prevent it from happening constantly

If oki REALLY wanted to cook, the bleed chance could be affected by damage/distance so bullets from 300m away will rarely trigger it

Yappening over

[ornate lark]

your solution is making it... random??

that would just be unfun

I don't want unneccesary RNG in fights

[pallid tapir]

Yeah for stuff like bleed rng is a nono

Even if chances are low, there will still be cases where you will bleed several times in a row

[ornate lark]

I agree with this bit though

[pallid tapir]

Hell, imagine being shot by a say M9 from like 100m cause someone was goofing off and you start bleeding cause whoops bad luck

Im more in favor of gun categories having their own bleed tresholds, bleed outright killing you and slower bandaging times

Tbh id prefer if you bandage faster while dealing with bleed, but for outright healing it should be slower

[ornate lark]

bandaging bleed also heals you though... so then it could be beneficial for overall healing to take damage. Such scenarios would be uncommon, but I'm not a fan of the idea

[pallid tapir]

True

I'll try to bundle some of current suggestions into a big one later

Lotta good proposals here overall

[flat flare]

"game is too chaotic" --> Removes mechanic that slows down game ????????????????????

[mossy karma]

if it is for damage, all of the lmgs would have a lower chance than ars

also would be quite strange, a fast killing weapon having a damage overtime wouldnt come up that much if your enemy dies that fast

a treshold would work better in this situation because you can choose what weapons will do best at it, lmgs in general arent that much of heavy hitters and can only peform ok in medium and long range, even then with the m249 you still have some disavantage

atleast when compared to other guns like l86

[misty carbon]

idk slower bandaging just seems like it would be kinda unfun to me, but bleed having some defined thresholds and it being clearer when you're actually going to die from it would be great.

it could also add extra use to different weapon categories if bleed thresholds changed by category

[robust dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-thumbnail-does-he-know-he-doesnt-know-gif-27552850

[feral sundial]

That's kind of my point atm

So it's not RNG 100% guys

It's controlled chances that can be tweaked or affected by stats

TBH if you like weapon spread in any way it's basically asking for the same amount of RNG 😂

Point is, it would be clear what causes bleed. You could have armors that specifically prevent bleeding as well

If BBR wants to actually be realistic you'd bleed on every shot that hits your HP, but it's going for a mix. RNG can be fun, competitive, and engaging

Also I still want a threshold personally, but I would prefer it to be "you have a chance of bleeding under the threashold" instead of "you will 100% bleed every time you dip under 40 hp" because that's how it is currently, and it's annoying af

[feral sundial]

I mentioned the bleed chance could scale with distance or damage as well, so if a bullet did too little damage or was too far away it could have 0 bleed chance

[feral sundial]

Yea, if it's for strictly damage LMGs would be worse for bleed than most guns. I was simply saying there are multiple different ways you could balance it that can be fun. I personally prefer giving guns a bleed % chance based on ammo type or something. And add a "bleed resist" stat to armor perhaps as well. I like this better because then Supports can do suppressing fire and actually be super helpful with halting pushes from enemies.

COMBINE this with an HP threshold before bleed can happen (like 50hp instead of 40 since we'd be adding rng to it) along with a cooldown if the %chance fails to trigger a bleed or succeeds (successes being longer than fails) and you should have a system that feels pretty good if it's tuned properly and can actually be a fun balancing factor

Additionally, add in transparency about how bleed works somewhere in game so people know for sure without constantly being confused

[feral sundial]

I mention slowing down healing because when healing is too fast it becomes difficult to stop pushes and to manage groups of enemies with your teammates. Someone shooting at you from a roof will basically be constantly shooting at you from the roof currently whereas before if you made them bleed it would at least take them a little sec to get back up to full HP.

I personally believe bandages shouldn't do both HP healing and fix bleed though. I also believe Oki should commit more to not showing HP values while healing and adding in more ways to tell how you're doing in-game (arms wounded, green effect when at full HP around the corners of your screen, little diagram of your guy in the bottom right that shows how injured you are from green to red, etc).

That's enough yappenin' from me again lol

TLDR: Y'all didn't read my first TLDR smh

[ornate lark]

That’s still rng

Whether it’s “controlled” or not doesn’t make a difference

[ornate lark]

This community largely doesn’t, as far as I can tell

[feral sundial]

I don't like weapon spread either for this game personally, I like the way the guns feel

[feral sundial]

I mean if you're 100% against any RNG in your games ever, then you'd never go for it to begin with yea.

My point is more so that just because it involves RNG doesn't make the mechanic inherently worse, less interesting, or even necessarily less skillful.

BF4's spread is something I point to a lot as an argument that RNG mechanics aren't bad inherently. You have to understand how much you're increasing your spread by, know how long to burst fire, know the tradeoffs your attachments provide, etc. The spread mechanics make some guns better than others at different ranges (QBZ can beat the AEK past a certain distance). A player who knows how spread works and understands their weapon will win fights more than a player who just picks up an AEK (good gun).

RNG bullet spread didn't ruin BF4, so RNG is not necessarily a bad thing when added thoughtfully. RNG's not the only solution to the bleed problem, but it's a solution that if done well could defo introduce some neato things to think about while playing, and make the game more interesting overall.

Now if you boil down what I said to just "make bleed random" then yea it sounds like shit. But I'm assuming it'd be done properly (knowing the Oki monkey's paw, it probs wouldn't though 😂)

[mossy karma]

I LOVE CASUAL GAMBLINB

I LOVE LOSING MY CHARACTERS IN GAMES BY A 25%

getting killed by a 5% that has a 25% crit chance is just fucking bullshit

[feral sundial]

Well good thing we're not talking about crits lol

Currently, you have an 100% bleed chance every time you pass the 40hp threshold. It SHOULD have a cooldown so you don't get bled every single time you're hit for sure. The only other way I could see bleed being changed would be making it damage based somehow? Like you'd need to take X damage within Y amount of time or something similar? That sounds less fun, and more inconsistent to me as well.

[feral sundial]

Thankfully bleed isn't a critical hit lol

Comparing the two is a little silly since bleed can be fixed so fast and is literally just an annoyance atm

We're probs just going to get bleed removed as Oki speeds up the game more and more

Peeps love XCOM, RPGs, and other such games, so it's not like random chance is inherently not a fun mechanic. Not saying to make BBR an RPG or XCOM, but shutting out an entire method balancing/possibly engaging gameplay is silly

[mossy karma]

i reccomend battle brothers if you like games like xcom

xcom but medieval

[feral sundial]

noted

[ornate lark]

RNG always reduces the skill involved, this is true for everything

The only thing it does is dilute skill differences, or in other cases relates to a smaller sample size for the distribution of possibilities which allows worse players to sometimes do a lot better than they should by getting lucky

[feral sundial]

I don't see bleed in it's current state as skillful in any way

It's just something that'll happen. I personally can never account for it because when I'm shooting at someone they'll either be dead or I'll be dinging them from so far that bleed doesn't matter

So adjusting the system a bit in anyway would be good.

Keep in mind I didn't say it had to be RNG, just that it's a solution. You could have it so some bullets cause bleed earlier than others, and still have armor that prevents bleed as well with no RNG. Making it bleed chance just seemed more fun to me tbh

[neat dew]

Issue with bleed is just once you get into those super big game modes it becomes a annoying little tick

[feral sundial]

Currently making it RNG a little would reduce the amount of times bleed happens simply by the fact it ALWAYS happens after 40hp

[neat dew]

I find bleed is fine in lower player capped game modes

But once you get bigger, it just becomes a bitch since stray bullets are always about

(Which servers can enable bleed if they wish after the change)

[feral sundial]

Yea, bleed is just annoying overall. The healing changes made it feel more annoying because now I heal so quick that it just feels annoying and pointless

[mossy karma]

Tbh it could make your chance of getting in this state more common
Just depends on luck or if we go that route the caliber of a weapon or type

[feral sundial]

Because I'm like "time to use 2 bandages

[neat dew]

I don’t mind it in like 8v8 and below

[feral sundial]

That's just literally not true

[neat dew]

No

[feral sundial]

It's currently a 100% chance, add rng and it's now not a 100% chance

[neat dew]

If you go below 40ho you bleed

That’s just how it works

[mossy karma]

I mean dont you want to make at any state to be rng

[neat dew]

It feels like rng since the armor stat fuvks with it

[mossy karma]

Even if you have more than 40hp

[neat dew]

Armor is dumb and only helps the first time your shot

Thank god it’s getting replaced

[neat dew]

It isn’t

[feral sundial]

Not any state. The higher your hp the less you should bleed. So above like 70% you'd still have 0% bleed chance no matter what

[neat dew]

The issue is armor fucking with it

[feral sundial]

We're talking about two different things @neat dew lol

[neat dew]

So feels like rng

[neat dew]

Armor effects bleed

[mossy karma]

Talking about the changes he wants, nor the current

[feral sundial]

I suggested some rng changes earlier

[neat dew]

Oh

[neat dew]

No

[mossy karma]

Ah that sounds better

Yeah like that would be better

[feral sundial]

I think having bleed chance as a stat you could affect on guns with bullet types would be cool

[neat dew]

I don’t see a point of adding rng into the equation

[feral sundial]

And also armor could affect it more

But you still shouldn't bleed before like 70hp minimum.

[neat dew]

(Armor isn’t going to be a thing next update)

[feral sundial]

Armor is a thing, it'll just be flat hp

[mossy karma]

So just removed?

[neat dew]

The armor stat isn’t a thing

[mossy karma]

I mean it is already

[feral sundial]

It just won't work how it is now

They'll just add armor onto hp next update I believe is the word. Bad idea imo, but whatever

[mossy karma]

Exo is basically flat out 50hp

[neat dew]

Either way making bleed work different for every gun just sounds like hell. Having it just be uniform is nicer

[neat dew]

They aren’t

Armor stat isn’t a thing

Armor just increases or decreases max hp

And speed

[feral sundial]

It wouldn't work differently necessarily. It'd need to be tuned obviously. Also that's what I said for armor

[neat dew]

Just keep it uniformed

The mechanic exists to hinder and slow down

[mossy karma]

I prefer what i said about making it be a debuff for combat in someway that a type of gun has a higher chance of inflicting than others

[neat dew]

Making it unique by a gun by gun basis sounds like a bitch to deal with

[mossy karma]

It goes away after sometime so it fits with a supression mechanic in someway

[feral sundial]

Eh, I still think lmgs should bleed sooner or something

[neat dew]

I would just say keep bleed for comp, lower cap server and milsim

[feral sundial]

Just to give them suppression essentially

Milsim argument 💀. Let's not get started with that

[neat dew]

The mode

[mossy karma]

Truer

[neat dew]

They already said there making a milsim mode as its own thing

[feral sundial]

They've always said that

It'll just be hardcore mode I'm sure

[neat dew]

So what’s wrong? I’m just trying to be factual

[mossy karma]

Talking about the banned mode
I did find a squad actually doing call outs and shit

[feral sundial]

Either or, I like bleed in the normal game

[mossy karma]

Jt is fun how a squad doing this can basically lock a point

[neat dew]

I genuinely don’t know how

It doesn’t really add or take away anything

I find it more annoying than anything since it just eats a bandage when I need to heal

[feral sundial]

So I liked bleed more before when healing was slower because it made pushed in larger servers actually possible

So I also advocate for returning to slower healing

[neat dew]

It was never fun tbr

[mossy karma]

Idk why they added the fast healing

[neat dew]

Especially higher servers

[mossy karma]

Literally fuckinf medic in quick succession

[neat dew]

In like 8v8 server I don’t mind bleed at all

[feral sundial]

I thought it still needed tweaks like a cooldown so it didn't happen constantly

[neat dew]

It actually works great

[feral sundial]

I don't think it works in 8v8 and stuff, I think it's at it's worst there personally

But to each their own

[neat dew]

But 64v64 and higher bleed just kinda happens at any moment without means to even know where it’s coming from or to stop it

[neat dew]

If it has a cooldown, maybe just don’t include into the bigger servers

[feral sundial]

It's needed for bigger servers

[neat dew]

It isn’t

[feral sundial]

It's literally the only way you can make a push sometimes.

[neat dew]

What

[feral sundial]

At least it used to be when healing was slower

[mighty cape]

ye

[neat dew]

Healing hasn’t been like that in over a year now

[feral sundial]

That's not true? It's only been a few months since they sped it up right?

[mossy karma]

People are more occupied in healing themselfs than shooting your teammates

[neat dew]

Well almost a year

[neat dew]

No

It’s been a long time

[feral sundial]

When was the speed up? November?

[neat dew]

October

[feral sundial]

That's not almost a year lmao

[neat dew]

When bandage healing was a thing

[neat dew]

You know what I meant

Just a long time

[mossy karma]

Thats 5 months

[feral sundial]

It doesn't matter if it's been a long time or not tbh

[neat dew]

Also

[mossy karma]

We got the faster healing and more health in bandages the same time we got a support weapon

[neat dew]

Have you genuinely not found ways to make pushes happen?

[feral sundial]

You just use smokes and such yea, I'm saying it was a good tool for that as well

[neat dew]

It wasn’t fun to play against

[feral sundial]

You can shoot people in power positions such as on roofs, snipers, etc and get some time to push ahead

[neat dew]

Which I don’t see why to punish people for stuff they possibly couldn’t prepare themselves for

[feral sundial]

Everyone had it, it's not a mechanic you play against

You just kind of deal with it

[neat dew]

You still dealt with it

It wasn’t fun for anyone

[feral sundial]

I think it was more fun that it is now

[mighty cape]

ye

[neat dew]

Honestly I used to agree about bleed too than I just kinda started getting annoyed by my bandages always getting eaten up by bleed

[feral sundial]

Bleed became more annoying now because it's basically nothing, an effect you fix within 3 seconds

[neat dew]

(Even back than it didn’t matter)

Medics could stop bleeding as quickly as they can revive

[feral sundial]

Bandaging became annoying as well because now you just always use 2 no matter what

[mossy karma]

When did you saw a medic that wasnt running around like an assault instead of healing though

[feral sundial]

Bandage healing was buffed way too much imo in general

[mossy karma]

And now you dont see medics at all

[neat dew]

What

[mighty cape]

when was it less annoying ?

[neat dew]

No I meant I would play medic to stop bleed

The bleed of others

[feral sundial]

I'm saying before it felt more like a choice to not heal mid fight

But now it's so fast I might as well every time

[neat dew]

(Just because someone always kinda had to since you would bleed from anything)

I didn’t like playing baby sitter just because bleed constantly happened

[mossy karma]

Still many times you were on your own as the other classes and it was really slow reviving others aswell

[neat dew]

(I also get no one forced me but at the same time just for matches to play properly you had to do that)

[mighty cape]

[mossy karma]

Bandaging bleed and healing was time consuming and a way to stop people from shooting back

[neat dew]

What

[mossy karma]

You can take that as you will honestly

[feral sundial]

Reviving should be slower again for other classes as well imo

[neat dew]

Bandaging and reving as medic takes the same time

Which were fast

[feral sundial]

Idk why they sped that up too

[mossy karma]

Not the same for assault, engie and support

[neat dew]

I can’t blame that on the devs

People were complaining medics didn’t do it faster till they changed it

[feral sundial]

I'm talking about everyone besides medic

[mighty cape]

nobody is reviving and you want to make it even slower?

[feral sundial]

I want it the same speed as before, yes

[neat dew]

Yeah. My points was just I would play medic to stop@bleeding for others because in bigger cap servers they would bleed over anything and you kinda needed to do it because otherwise you wouldn’t get anything done

[feral sundial]

If no one is reviving now, making it faster clearly didn't help

[neat dew]

It did

Making it slower will just make it worse

[feral sundial]

Idk, I feel like I get revived the same amount

[neat dew]

You didn’t.

[mighty cape]

I am already wasting one bandage for it if it takes even longer there would be zero reasons for me to do it in the current meta

[mossy karma]

Doesnt this take away what medic is build around?
Right now you rarely see medics in games, its just not worth since everyone can be just as effective as you while having alot more powerful guns than you

[feral sundial]

You did

[neat dew]

Before no one would revive aside medics because of how much bleed would happen and how much faster medics did it

[mossy karma]

Unles they make reviving better and healing more effective i can see medic being way better than now

[neat dew]

Now no one does just because the people playing right now are pre squads

[feral sundial]

It's easy to just say shit lol. We don't actually have stats on this unfortunately. But I still prefer reviving be slower for everyone but medic

[neat dew]

Just the more hardcore players

[neat dew]

Your wrong

[mossy karma]

Truer

[feral sundial]

No u

[mossy karma]

Tbh making statistics like that would be a blessing in balance for this game

[mighty cape]

the issue is that you don't need medics since you can respawn at the same location you died 3 secs later so there is no point in getting healed by medics

[neat dew]

Do

[feral sundial]

Seriously it would be

[neat dew]

You not play with a support or medic?

[pallid tapir]

This is rather amusing to read

[feral sundial]

You don't need medics now because literally everyone heals and revives so fast it barely matters. I still play medic to revive and heal bot a little, but it's objectively slower to heal with the kit 😭

[mossy karma]

I agree with that in community servers that make the time shorter
Official servers the time is quite long and can be enough for your squad to be in a fight or die

[feral sundial]

Medic is just for patching up boo boos bruh

[mossy karma]

Altough yeah i kinda agree with that sometimes

[feral sundial]

It's rough

[neat dew]

Medics revived the fastest and have infinite healing

[mighty cape]

[feral sundial]

I said now

[neat dew]

You will always benefit from a medic now

[mossy karma]

People responding qith emojis instead of an actual response

[neat dew]

I’m talking now too

Medic still revives fastest and got them infinite heals

[feral sundial]

They barely revive any faster. Healing yourself with a bandage is usually just faster

[neat dew]

Yeah and also cost something

[feral sundial]

A support can resupply your bandage count

[neat dew]

Infinite healing goes brrrrrr

[feral sundial]

And dying is free

[mighty cape]

because it's ~3 secs on officials too and 3secs don't matter at all

[neat dew]

If you’re not playing with a medic doubt your playing with a support

Usually they go hand in hand

[feral sundial]

You don't really need to play with either

Because you can just die and respawn quick anyway, or call down a supply drop

[neat dew]

Am I just a weirdo than who likes playing with team dynamics?

[mighty cape]

the time spent to get a random to heal or resupply you is not worth it in many cases

[neat dew]

It is

[mighty cape]

I would love if we had it but it's simply not worth it rn

[neat dew]

Playing with a squad is more effective and fun

[mossy karma]

The respawn time iirc is around 4-6 seconds(altough one time i caught 12 or domething close to that)
That time if you died in the frontlines your squad that was around your dead body can be killed, or be caught in a fight and you cant respawn back or the usual spawning and dying bc the spawn system can be shit sometimes

[neat dew]

Also your don’t account for stuff actually happening in game

Such as locations and positions you want to hold

There’s more to the game than just speed

[mossy karma]

Yah

[mighty cape]

12 sec is suicide penalty

[mossy karma]

Irrc bleeding gives that

Or fall damage

Might be wrong on that front

[mighty cape]

I have so many supports/medics run past me without resupplying/healing no matter what I do

[mossy karma]

Oh yeah i remember one time a squad member went afk and became basically a silent beacon

[feral sundial]

Bro. My point is medic isn't really that useful due to the non medic healing and reviving being faster. Ever since they sped both up the pace of the game is shot. Bleeding is now just an annoyance instead of something that actually hinders pushes or allows for position changing. People get revived so fast that it can be tough to clear an area in larger servers (which is where most people play). The whole system needs a touch up

[mossy karma]

Unironically i agree with haro when that happens

[neat dew]

Medic is useful for people who plays with others

[mossy karma]

It can make capturing points so easy lmao

[neat dew]

If your by yourself no shit

[mighty cape]

a support can do medics job just as good

[neat dew]

Naw

You have limited supply boxes

[mighty cape]

bandages are way better than the box

[neat dew]

Both good don’t get me wrong

[feral sundial]

Medic is barely useful for playing with others. If you survive for ever, maybe yea. But support can resupply your ammo, revive, and resupply bandages which are faster than the kit and don't require another person

[mighty cape]

and just respawn if you are out

[neat dew]

Both have there own means to the end

[neat dew]

What if your in a good position

[feral sundial]

Medic is only really nice for topping off your boys

[neat dew]

Having Both a medic and support would trump that issue

[mighty cape]

then your mate is in a good position too so respawn on him

[mossy karma]

Supports doing their job is just as rare as medics reviving and engies repairing

[neat dew]

I don’t know. Find the most effective way to play is to hold positions or defend

[mighty cape]

nobody is using repair kit over rpg anyway

[neat dew]

I tend to see people who prefer to play in squads to do the same (outside of them coke addicts know how to run good)

[mighty cape]

the fact that you don't have the repair kit as an extra gadget guaranteed is stupid

[neat dew]

You don’t always need it tho

[feral sundial]

I'm not gonna argue with the "no u" and "git good" argument dressed up in a different form anymore.

[neat dew]

Good chunk of game modes and maps don’t even have v vehicles

[neat dew]

I never said git good

[mighty cape]

you basically never need it if you aren't a tank player duo

[neat dew]

Honestly you are probably a better player than me

[mighty cape]

can't even get out and repair without getting the vehicle stolen

but that's kinda a different topic so let's get back to bleeding

[neat dew]

Keep bleeding to lower cap@servers and we golden

(Or just make it not cost a bandage)

[mossy karma]

I love when slowly the suggestion goes off the rails

[neat dew]

Maybe just make bleed a prompt you deal with vs using a bandage

[mighty cape]

happens every time

[neat dew]

(Especially since soon some classes will have lower max hp)

Imagine if assault had to use bandage every time they drop below 40 when they have like 80 max hp

[mighty cape]

not sure what you are trying to say with this

[craggy crow]

On Friday terminal confirmed via asking Oki that bleeding is triggered by going under 50% health, and any further damage under 50% health will re-trigger it.

[pallid tapir]

Ah i see

Well now we know why its so annoying

[grizzled thistle]

That might not be right, Oki said a while ago that its caused by being hit to under 40 hp

[ornate lark]

Mm yeah I think I'd have noticed an instance of bleeding between 40 and 50 hp, I always do the subtraction in my head after bandaging to know how low I was for whatever reason

[feral sundial]

who tf knows honestly

[neat dew]

I was testing flashbang damage with someone and they died without bleeding several times during it, probably because it didn't do enough damage but that is a thing

[robust dragon]

m110 doesn't induce bleeding tho

[humble girder]

P sure it does

It's not a guaranteed bleed tho

[tidal dragon]

Could tie it to the armor rework: instead of making it reduce damage or increase HP, convert % of damage into bleeding. E.g. a sniper headshot on exo would still be lethal if the player is out of bandages/has no one nearby to heal them.

So bleeding would never kill you unless the total damage you took would have done so anyway, but it still provides an interesting decision in combat on whether to pull back and bandage vs continue engaging at the risk of getting closer to death and maybe requiring more than one bandage to get back to full.

[faint widget]

I'm on the keep bleeding, but make it random with a modifier for bullet size team.
Off topic, I should be able to force revive, as in a revive from a medic should be faster than the space bar reset. Really the space bar reset should be slowed down to the timer, so that you never see the timer after spacebar reset.

[ornate lark]

There's no randomness involved.

[warm sail]

just make the bandages heal + remove bleed at the same time

so you don't waste 2 to remove and heal

[pallid tapir]

They already do that

[warm sail]

do they? i thought the first one just removed bleed

[pallid tapir]

It used to be like that

Now bandages remove bleed and heal 50hp

[azure bone]

I would have bleeding subtract from a "Blood Amount" meter rather than a health one. As it'd decrease, movement and everything gets slower and your vision would probably start slurring, and bandages wouldn't add blood back, it'd just stop decreasing. If you we're being healed via a medpack or something, than you could prolly' get some blood back.

That might just be complicated for no reason and dumb, but I like the idea.

[ornate lark]

hmm. I kinda like that

doubt it'd even be considered for the main game though, given it sounds more of a milsim thing

[azure bone]

Sounds 'bout right.

[ornate lark]

I think blood slowly regenning passively would be nice in the scope of that idea though, having to be solely reliant on a medic wouldn't be nice

[severe gazelle]

I actually am opposed to a separate bleed bar because that means it just adds another reason to insta respawn rather than to wait for a revive

[humble girder]

yea, screams needless complexity

[ornate lark]

Why would it matter, given you died?

Presumably being revived would reset bleed

[tidal dragon]

Because it's annoying?

You can't just go anywhere because you might die out in the open where you won't be revived

and you would still have to wait for someone to come around

it's just faster to hit respawn

[ornate lark]

why would you not be revived?

I don't get what relevance that has to the situation

what has the suggested bleed rework got to do with waiting for revives

[tidal dragon]

Hmm if you want revives to reset the "blood" supply then that means anyone reviving you can do it

But then bandages are worse if you use them before dying

So bandaging at 1HP is worse than letting yourself die because it wouldnt reset your supply

[ornate lark]

that would matter when you were surrounded by allies to revive you

but I'm not sure how much of an issue it would be

if you're on 1hp now, getting revived is an extra 14 hp already, not that it matters as you get one shot by almost anything anyway

I guess it depends how hard blood is to regenerate

[slow scaffold]

Why do we even have to talk about it?

There appears to be a consensus that removing bleed is bad. So who is thinking this is a good idea?

Alternatively, add new gadget to medic, like a tourniquet that almost instantly stops the bleed of others and prevents them from bleeding for the rest of their life so further teamwork is rewarded

[grizzled thistle]

Honestly removing bleed doesnt really do anything

Youre still going to have to bandage the same amount and at about the same time

[slow scaffold]

It is also a handy to estimate how much HP you have left and that you really need to bandage. Sure the red overlay helps too but, it adds a urgency to it and as others have argued in the other threads it creates downtime

[slow scaffold]

But is that an argument for or against bleed mechanic?

[grizzled thistle]

Its neither

Im just saying that bleed kinda does nothing except what you just said

It lets you know whne you should bandage

[craggy crow]

Deathcounter i dont know if you looked at the contents of your screenshot, but there a singular thread in favor of bleeding in it. Every other one is about changing or removing it

Oh i missed the underline my bad

[slow scaffold]

The ones asking for bleeding to be removed have way more ❌ votes than ✅ ones, and those who say it shouldnt be removed have more checkmarks than Xs

[craggy crow]

Thank goodness it doesnt mean a god damn thing in practice

[slow scaffold]

In which regard? Bleeding having effect in the game in practice, or discords votes on the final decisions of the devs?

[craggy crow]

"discords votes on the final decisions of the devs?" this one

[mossy karma]

wasnt inertia basically added and then ''delayed'' bc of the votes

even the velocity of lmgs got buffed bc of the votes

[grizzled thistle]

No, youre thinking of player collision. Player collisions were decided to be added by vote but then it was delayed because of technical issues

[mossy karma]

oh yeah my bad

[grizzled thistle]

Now it seems like it wont be added any time soon

[craggy crow]

no crowd surfing

[mossy karma]

unironically dont mind at all anymore

even in a hardcore server i rarely noticed

just one time

a shithead blocked me from escaping

aand didnt revived me

[pallid tapir]

This one server for some reason had colision only for teammates for some reason, its honestly takes a bit to notice

Like its not as bad as some people have made it out to be in the past

[mossy karma]

tbh the collision would onl apply to enemies

with it would only make those bumps you made with eachother less chaotic

like turning a corner and reacting to an enemy but he turns around another corner and gets away or shoots you back when you give chase

[pallid tapir]

True

I think most games do that really

You can pass through mates easily but not enemies

It would also buff sledge, cause you wont be missing cause you went through a man

[mighty cape]

would be a huge buff to the Riot shield

[soft ether]

I say we keep it and keep it as is, makes gameplay far more exciting because of the whole "should I go and bandage myself or to push on before bandaging for another kill" decision process. If it triggers several times in a row… good for you being so good you can stay alive for long enough to have to make those decisions several times over.

[grizzled thistle]

that decision process already exists without bleed

The only thing bleed does is force you to make one decision after a certain amount of time

Like nobody wants to take a fight at 40 hp because youre just gonna lose

[soft ether]

Which is what makes this game more exciting than other milsim/even BR type games precisely because you have to make a decision and make it quickly

[grizzled thistle]

I mean that you have to make a particular decision after a certain amount of time

You cant decide to keep fighting for as long as you want if you are bleeding, you have to decide at some point to stop and bandage or else you die

[soft ether]

Yes that's what I mean, because of bleeding players have to make a decision whether or not to bandage and they better do it quick because otherwise they're gonna die like you said

Edit: by making a decision I mean actually bandaging. Maybe they don't wanna do it right away but eventually they have to.

[grizzled thistle]

Yeah I see what you mean, but in reality you're always going to have to bandage if you want to take a fight again.

Like that pressure already exists just from being low health, you dont really need bleed to make it feel like you have to decide disengage or not quickly

[soft ether]

Goes back to my point that this is a little something that sets BBR apart from other games

[grizzled thistle]

How so?

[soft ether]

It's about having to bandage quickly, versus just having to bandage at some point between the end of the fight the player just got out of and the next one coming up. I always get psyched out a bit when I'm bleeding but I kinda like it

[grizzled thistle]

The problem is its not you making a decision quickly, its you being forced to do one specific thing quickly. Atleast for my play style, the only time that bleeding is actually relevant is when I'm surrounded by enemies, maybe one or two know where I am, and I'm forced to hide and bandage instead of being able to take the fight and then bandage. With bleed being removed this actually give me more decisions to make. I can choose to either risk taking the 1v2 at low hp, or I can bandage, risking them finding me before I get it off, then take the 1v2 without knowing if they've moved towards me or not.

[soft ether]

all at the cost of making this game just like everything else out there…

[grizzled thistle]

I agree with the sentiment but I think bleed is so far down the list of things that makes the game truly unique.

[soft ether]

In terms of combat mechanics this does make the game unique though

[pallid tapir]

Its a bit of a standout feature no lie

[grizzled thistle]

Have you played a lot of battlefield type games?

[soft ether]

This is my first, but I do understand that BBR is a BF/Minecraft mashup of some sort.

[mighty cape]

minecraft ???

[soft ether]

graphics wise

[pallid tapir]

Tbh bbr was my first battlefield type of game
Did get bf4 and bf1 later down the line

Both fun and pretty different

[grizzled thistle]

Yeah mine too

Thats odd that we think so differently about how unique bleed is

[mighty cape]

if they remove bleed and increase ttk I might as well just play bf

[grizzled thistle]

If they increase ttk I might as well just uninstall the game

[soft ether]

Alternatively, if they keep bleeding as is for the next update I'll love this game forever

[grizzled thistle]

Oh yeah dont forget adding health bars

[soft ether]

Definitely will love the game forever if they do that now

[grizzled thistle]

If ttk is raised to the point where I will notice health bars I will hate the game

[pallid tapir]

That does have me worried

[soft ether]

Yeah hope they don't go there, would be $8 down the drain right there

[pallid tapir]

I cant complain tbh i got my 500 hours for 15€

[grizzled thistle]

I've just accepted the inevitability that the update will be cool to listen to the new sounds for about an hour then it will suck once the reality sets in.

[pallid tapir]

1 step foward 2 steps back is what its gonna look like

[grizzled thistle]

yep

You can only pray that the casuals wont like it and that will convince oki to change direction

Like im honestly curious how most players will feel about inertia being added, but not to one class

And I wonder how that's gonna be communicated to returning players

[mighty cape]

gonna wait and try it myself before I decide if it's good or not but it doesn't sound very good

[pallid tapir]

Same

[grizzled thistle]

That seems to be most people's feeling

[mighty cape]

vaulting seems really fast now too so even more run and gun
(the other vaulting changes are King)

[soft ether]

I like that actually, compared to pubg vaulting which even streamers with thousands of hours in the game die to because it's so damn slow

[pallid tapir]

Vaulting looks super good no lie

Perhaps too fast, but we will see

[soft ether]

No it's just right lol

[slow scaffold]

It seems to be over. Oki wants to remove bleed.
Major teamplay mechanic gone, nobody can stop your bleed for you. He said bleeding is not slowing the game down, but that's what it does cause you will need to heal and have downtime
Opportunity to add new mechanic gadgets like Tourniquet gone. Game has less depth. Medics can heal themselves even faster now without needing to bandage.
Snipers nerfed further.

[robust dragon]

snipers further buffed

even worse dmg drop off now

[kindred scroll]

Oh yea I can just tank a m200 shot and run away while healing myself with medbox

[crisp river]

Honestly bleed should have just been something to prevent you from being healed.

[humble girder]

I mean, it does currently

[pallid tapir]

Well, if bleed is to return, just lower the treshold to 25 HP and after curing bleed, you cannot bleed under any circumstances for 3-5 seconds.

Maybe have the current treshold of 40 HP for lmgs, lsws and snipers.
Emphasis on maybe. This was suggested by warmou I think a good while back, to serve as a budget supression mechanic.
Its not your typical supression where you are rewarded for missing your shots, but actually hitting them.

[humble girder]

Just give it a random chance:
Roll for bleed chance after each occurrence of 40 damage.

eg.
Get shot 3 times by an MP7: 100 -> 43, trigger bleed check on the 3rd hit

Get shot once by M200: 100 -> 20, trigger bleed check on 1st hit

Allows identical bleed chance across all weapons

Something like 40% chance to bleed, could be another stat that's applied to armor

Lighter armor makes you more likely to bleed, heavier armor makes you less?

Etc etc.

[pallid tapir]

I dont think it is good idea to have bleed be practically random chance

[humble girder]

If it's applied as a modifier, I think it would be fine, BBR isn't a competitive arena shooter

[sturdy sun]

I bet it's gonna more chaotic if Bleeding been removed in the next update...,

[pallid tapir]

I feel like it would make the annoyance of bleed worse if by relegating it to random chance

[pallid tapir]

Game is becoming cod literally

[mighty cape]

random chance doesnt sound that good

a simple no bleed for 5-10secs after first bleed should do the trick

[sturdy sun]

Dayum bro...,

[pallid tapir]

10 secs is excessive
5 is the max id give it

[sturdy sun]

I like this mechanic to be honest.., it make us take our times to calm ourself and make quick decisions at the battle,

And it slowdown the chaos battle, for a slightly at least

[pallid tapir]

Also make bandaging like 10% slower except for medic

Like just a bit so that medic can actually act like a damn medic for once

[humble girder]

A smaller random chance, modified by armor that's being worn, maybe there could even be a gadget slot item that prevents bleeding

Can guarantee no bleed, but you're down a gadget

[sturdy sun]

Seems you didn't like medic main...., in the chaos battle everyone can be anything, even their roles is been locked in,

[humble girder]

I like roles having defined purposes with little crossover

[sturdy sun]

Sometimes it's hilarious, seen our Assault holding at the backline of the battlefield how is it? And for examples me as medic am i need hold with that assault who almost all time holding back?

I prefer to rush, even as medic but i keep remind by myself to help heal and res each others nearby,

[humble girder]

I'd really like to see bandages move from Support to Medic and the medic box be reworked, especially with the removal of bleed

Like others said, it feels like a massive buff to medics running around with their box out as nothing can stop them healing

[tidal dragon]

100%. Not only is it good for balance, but that's the sort of thing that promotes the teamwork and communication that the game was sold on.

[pallid tapir]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1199105441167323276

[humble girder]

Yea already upvoted, would just like to see the medic box hold 20+ bandages and give the medic a gadget to instantly revive people

Unify healing to bandages only

[true sail]

Removing bleeding may not really help new players since it allows good players to frag out more

It does also reward edge cases where you don’t quite do 100 hp damage

[feral sundial]

Just remove being able to bandage while sprinting and make it like a 80% chance every hit you take after you pass 40hp and when you pass 40hp. I feel like that'd make it less annoying and also actually slow people down by removing bandaging while sprinting - which shouldn't be a thing imo

Regardless of the solution, there are fixes that are very clear or could be tested in - you know - the beta test environment that's meant for this stuff that hasn't been used yet

[rapid ice]

i’d say just lower the bleed threshold to 20 and remove sprint bandage if necessary, but no rng involved

but yeah imagine there was a tester role and playtest branch

[pallid tapir]

I already proposed something like this

I just dont see why you have to make bleed rng

[sharp shard]

Bleed would be pretty easily fixed if they just made it more serious when it happens but a lot less common

[pallid tapir]

By lowering the threshold you lowering the time you have to bandage yourself

[sharp shard]

Yeah exactly, instead of bleeding 10 hp every 10 seconds, make it so that you're going to bleed out in 10-15 seconds if not addressed, but also remove bandaging while running

That way it forces a serious life or death decision

[pallid tapir]

Just make running slower when you are bleeding

[sharp shard]

I've been saying this

[feral sundial]

The RNG I'm proposing just makes it happen less often 😭. I just don't want it to be guaranteed for low HP because it means you heal up and get dinged a lot immediately. A cooldown would work too, but I like gambling so

I did propose mario kart voting

it's on my resume you know

[pallid tapir]

80% chance to bleed is still very high

[feral sundial]

it's fucking 100% atm bruh

it's just a tinsy little bit lower

[sharp shard]

It should be less than 50% for real

[feral sundial]

you know, every once in a while you get away for free

[sharp shard]

You already get shot multiple times in a fight most of the time

[pallid tapir]

Ok but you can get fucked over by pure misfortune

[feral sundial]

it's 100% at the moment

Like

I don't see what's not to understand

[sharp shard]

Yeah, RNG bleed isn't a good solution, but the current state of bleed doesn't justify it either

[feral sundial]

RNG funny stuff aside, it does absolutely 100% need cooldown

[pallid tapir]

Especially if you are gonna bleed have more severe effects getting rng'd into bleed would make bleed pretty annoying

[feral sundial]

and I think bandages shouldn't heal if you fix bleed personally, but that's just me.

[feral sundial]

I didn't say that personally, but that's an idea I suppose

[sharp shard]

I think it should have a lessened effect, like what Tarkov does

[feral sundial]

let's have a 1% chance of blowing up

[pallid tapir]

Self combustion

[sharp shard]

You get a little healing off the animation, but you have to spend x amount of your healing item's use points on removing the bleed

[feral sundial]

I personally think % chance based stuff would be fine since it's a 100+ person vs game. RNG can be an excellent tool to make a game feel fun.

BUT regardless of RNG, current bleed literally just needs a cooldown on the amount of times it can happen per minute/per heal or something to fix it. Like if I heal a bleed I can't be bled again for like 10 seconds

10 might be alot, but you get the idea

[sharp shard]

In fact I will advocate for a fully customizable IFAK for every player just so that Oki will ignore the idea and not add a convoluted system that nobody will have asked for

[pallid tapir]

5 seconds after you cure bleed seems reasonable

[feral sundial]

Current bleed is frustrating for a variety of reasons that have been chatted about in the feedback threads.

• The effect isn't super clear with how long you have till you take damge
• It's not clear at all what causes bleed for casual play. Everyone says different numbers despite it being 40hp, and anyone not in this discord doesn't know for sure.
• It happens so frequently it's painful. You can fix it then it happens again.
• Anytime you bleed you might as well full heal, so every bleed is actually just using 2 bandages to full heal because why wouldn't you.

So TLDR:

• Bad feedback
• Is annoying

[sharp shard]

Yeah the current situation with bleeds happening back to back leaves me with 2 bandages left after most hot spawns if I even survive more than five seconds

[feral sundial]

There's been like 100 solutions said in this thread and others - including my dumb RNG stuff. I think people are frustrated by it being removed because it feels like the devs are just throwing their hands up like "ok, we give up"

[sharp shard]

Yeah, it's not a hard system to get right, but Oki would rather remake the whole game instead of fixing maybe three base systems

[feral sundial]

We've proposed solutions to healing, solutions to attachments, solutions to RPG balance, solutions to vehicle balance, etc. It just feels like very simple, smart solutions are being ignored at times

Now there's funny complicated bad solutions too, but like still

[pallid tapir]

We live in a timeline where bigger companies listen to player feedback better than these guys

[feral sundial]

But if this new update is the greatests, most fun game ever (doubt) I'll stfu for sure lol

[sharp shard]

Playerbase solutions: changing values already in the game
Oki solutions: gutting the entire game and changing the genre after public release

[feral sundial]

Sound bad

make sound worse

Sound bad

remake sound entirely

Sniper annoying

give trail that lasts for 300 years

It's just frustrating because the things just need like little tweaks that could be caught in - idk - a public beta test environment

[pallid tapir]

Even when he tries doing something good, like lowering visual recoil for medium sights he still fucks it up

[feral sundial]

Hopefully he does use that environment rather than release this update flat out, but I doubt it.

[sharp shard]

He promises one fix and then changes five systems around it, which he then uses the original fix to justify doing

[pallid tapir]

Instead of just making it less obnoxious he lowered the recoil of all guns in ADS by 20%

[feral sundial]

I will say, it's not like all the updates have been bad. A lot of them have improved the game a lot, it's just there's like 1000 different little things that could use some touching up.

death by 1000 cuts and all that

the UI change for the gun customization menu was kind of mid to bad tho

[sharp shard]

It's over for these hoes when I can use the prisma on an AK-15

[feral sundial]

You can! I just put a sight on top of it lol

or on the side. The AK-15 is basically a dmr

[mossy karma]

you basically said my thoughts on some of the balance reasons oki did

with adding for that is the one man developer aswell

if it was one more person to be doing it or atleast for the minor and easy changes it wouldnt be the mess that it is

[true sail]

the velocity and accuracy kinda hold it back ngl

scar will defo be mk20 with more ammo tho

[tidal dragon]

Programmer and game designer and two entirely different roles that no human being can do both appropriately and at a reasonable pace but Oki is just high on the idea of "making his vision come true" (he has none)

So instead we get 3 month update cycles AND wack ass balance changes

[mossy karma]

You can definetly be both and make your vision come true, mentioninf kenshi for this
But this isnt a beta or a game that is in the early parts to being complete

It has a community and it is a multiplayer game
You really have to keep with the pace to update it and keep it fun because unlike singleplayer games multiplayer have to keep being updated or calling people attention to fill the servers

[ornate lark]

Disagree, just depends on your efficacy versus the scale of the project at hand

[feral sundial]

You can defo do design and program at the same time. They're kind of hand and hand. Some people might not do both, but it's pretty possible lol.

When you're programming something for people to use, no matter what kind of project it is, if you're not thinking about the UX of it you're not doing half the job of programming tbh.

A lot of programming is thinking about how people will use something and coming up with smart solutions to that. Like yea, I could program the netcode for a game better, or I could just cut the ping number in half 😤 (real counterstrike solution)

If you don't believe me, look into gambling mechanics and machines, and luck mechanics in games in general. A lot of the time a 80% chance is more like 95%.

[mossy karma]

I call ir bullshit

A 80% in games like battle brothers and xcom is a 50/50

A 95% will instantly be a 5% hit when you are counting on it to survive

[sharp shard]

Well, I think at this point it's clear Oki can't do that

Whether or not it's possible is mutually exclusive to the reality of Oki having no vision while also not properly prioritizing what he codes whatsoever (according to his own words)

He will come out and say he's all over the place on what he's working on and usually it's absolutely nothing related to what the players have been begging him to fix or work on

[feral sundial]

Xcom lies to you if you play that game

[mossy karma]

I unironically still think thin man have a dodge bonus for your attack and a high crit rate than other enemies

I lost so many soldier to thin man crits

Lost a high level gunner to a thin man criting him

[feral sundial]

thinny privilage

[mossy karma]

i gucking hate games with % chance gameplay

plays xenonauts and xcom

1k hours in both of them plus battle brothers

Mfw a 10 hour grind ro get this guy to max level

Gets killed by a 5% with results in a headshot with has 25%

Right on the only place he has 0 protection

[upper forge]

yo how do i quickly get to the original message

anyways i feel like bleeding would do well with a good rework

it may seem redundant, but i think there’s a way to easily improve it as a feature to add more depth to the game

[feral sundial]

I don't think you can tbh lol