Blackhawk Attack Variant or smthng

[rocky current]

(just a copy-paste of the mini conversation that was had in eng chat, tree or probably blank can hijack the thread from there)

"Vilaskis please stop this if you’re reading we don’t need Blackhawk on maps like kodak they’re unusable and serve no purpose
You can’t backcap, no one will get in and no point since the map is barely the width of your helicopter in size
You can’t do ground attack, BHs super weak"

L> "heres an idea; add a gunship-type heli to the game. pilot has no access to weapons, but copilot has some sort of co-axial and there would be one gunner on each side with much more dangerous guns than the Hawk's mini's. it would have significant health but there would be only one more seat, where you would have someone with a repair tool sit; only one would allow the heli to have some sort of self-sustainability but not be able to just keep tanking damage from multiple sources of heavy vehicle damage.
probably a shit idea but IMO it would fill a vehicle-niche the game currently lacks, especially on maps where the hawk is underutilised since its nearly useless"

L> "so like a DAP version, maybe 4 transport seats so 6 total
copilot has spotting?"

L> "sorta, yeah. co-pilot would probably need some sort of variable high-zoom camera view for the coaxial, so integrating spotting into it wouldnt be a bad idea. and yes to the transport seats too so long as they arent allowed to repair the vehicle themselves. for an omni-directional, direct engagement helicopter, i feel like having that many people able to simultaneously repair the heli would just be OP. gonna copy-paste this mini back-and-forth into a suggestions thread. ive spent all of 120 seconds piloting helis in BBR so its hardly my area of expertise; feel free to hijack the thread for yourself"

L> "Fuck yoy I’m trying to shitpost on another server"

@silk ferry @rugged shuttle you two most likely have more things of value to say about this than I do

[silk ferry]

if there were to be a gunship version should be M2’s mounted instead of the mini guns, higher damage lower ROF higher velocity

mini guns should have like twice the damage it has now

[rocky current]

true, but preferrably not with the uselessly low velocity the M2s currently have. its already really low for a ground vehicle, would be a joke on a heli IMO

[silk ferry]

maybe even some front facing gun pods with a M240 in them? pilot would be able to use them like littlebird, essentially mini guns but lower ROF

[silk ferry]

yes definitely, for aerial combat distances you’d need to aim off screen to hit with the M2’s

gunship BH could be 10 to 20 KM/H slower

[rocky current]

damn now ive got myself all depressed about the state of the ground-vehicle M2s

[rocky current]

and with manueverability somewhere between birb and hawk? or would it be more balanced if it were less agile than even the hawk?

[silk ferry]

normal hawk, hawk is already sluggish enough

armed LB and unarmed LB feel the same so

[rocky current]

the only time its no sluggish is when some jackass takes control of it and slams it into waki bridges

[silk ferry]

It’s really maneuverable pitch wise

If you know how to properly take advantage of pitch you can get on a littlebirds tail in a dogfight

[quasi elm]

Apache would be my suggestion. Auto cannon secondary gunner, pilot gets rockets. Sounds terrifying until you remember tail rotors are 1 shot kill and they'll be in relatively close range to be used

[whole jetty]

Just buff the miniguns. What a silly suggestion. Currently with the miniguns it is 7 bodyshots to kill, more against armor, more against helmet.
12 against Exo armor. 20~ if they get a bandage in. 25+ if they have a medic box.

A glock 18 with 1200 rounds would be more lethal than the miniguns.

[silk ferry]

Slazenger, famous for good takes.

@rugged shuttle

[spare escarp]

Nah, as much as I hate to admit it, in this case he's right.

Just up the damage to, like, 24

[silk ferry]

that wouldnt make it a gunship

[spare escarp]

But that would be a needed improvement needed for a Blackhawk gunship.

[rocky current]

thats not what this suggestion is even about. its a suggestion for adding a new heli that would fill a currently empty niche, not feedback for one of the helis already in the game.

[silk ferry]

#1208157085234110524 message not really

atleast in context of this suggestion

[whole jetty]

The blackhawk/ka60 is multirole. It is not hardlined into being a transport helicopter. Infact nowhere is it mentioned to be a transport it's just the "Blackhawk"/"Ka60". If the guns were rightfully buffed then it can perform as a gunship and actually protect people it's dropping off at the same time. As for Kodiak/Frugis, I love it's midfield spawn. The helicopter on Frugis is actually the BEST map for a helicopter gunship since you can kill rooftop enemies and easily contest armor vehicles.

[rocky current]

whats your point

this is a suggestion about a potential new heli. not feedback on the existing blackhawk

[whole jetty]

We already have a helicopter and it is sorely underbuffed

Rightfully improve that before adding anything else

[rocky current]

thats great, pal. so take that to the feedback thread for the blackhawk/ka60. thats not what this is

stop flooding this thread with irrelevant crap because you dont like the state the blackhawk is in

[whole jetty]

You want a gunship, the blackhawk is a gunship. It just woefully underperforms in it's current state. Mate I even reread the OP

[rocky current]

so youre just gonna continue to fill this thread with feedback on the blackhawk, then?

[silk ferry]

I'm sure you're experience outweighs our lame walls of text.

It is not a gunship

[silk ferry]

The armed littlebird is a transport.

[silk ferry]

1. No you can not easily kill armor vehicles
2. It does jack shit on Frugis/Kodak
3. Play the game before commenting

[silk ferry]

It is not a fucking gunship

The M4 is a LMG, it just woefully underprforms in it's current state.

Mate, I even reread the OP

[rocky current]

yeah that was the point i just gave up on all but the bare minimum of interaction lol. just slaz being slaz

[silk ferry]

I don't get why Slaz acts like this

It's like that graph of confidence/knowledge and it's pretty clear where he falls

[rocky current]

🎯

[whole jetty]

Good god mate. 7 blocked messages at once. That's a new record. Armor can easily be killed/contest on Frugis since it's almost like Stalingrad with it's roads & apartment blocks. As soon as they make the second turn out of spawn they are dead by RPGs from the Blackhawk. Rooftop snipers have nowhere to go other than into the prone position so it's an easy kill from the miniguns. Getting 70-80 kills with all armor killed was not uncommon for me when could actually play the map regularly in Oceania. My experince ingame does indeed trump the lame walls of text from a no doubt half rate pilot. My higest kill game is 130 kills on Wakistan in the Blackhawk.

[silk ferry]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1021274737894232146/1198732121301340230/attachment.gif

there we go

keep on yapping

[whole jetty]

Why is discord like this. No wonder Oki has put the game in such a dire state by catering to those who don't even play the game.

[silk ferry]

you're currently projecting

[whole jetty]

@silk ferry A recent endgame screenshot of a 54+15+15 kill game in the Helicopter on Basra Conquest for 84+ kills total. To achieve this is an achievement in itself. The Blackhawk/Ka60 can be used as a gunship in Battlebit, it's just so utterly weak and vulnerable you will scarcely ever see it. For your suggestion OP we already have a helicopter and it should be buffed likewise to actually be useful in a multirole way. Gunship to transport to missleboat.

[silk ferry]

to achieve this you just need to play on empty servers with worse players

the M4 can be used as an LMG its just so utterly dumb and overmodified you will scarcely ever see it

the unarmed littlebird is a gunship

[whole jetty]

Embarrasing. I'm going to collapse the messages.

[silk ferry]

yes please do to stop yourself from anymore

[median jungle]

Fuck M2. Mk19.

[median jungle]

Proper attack heli would be a god send in this game. Especially if it was tuned more for vehicle hunting than inf farming

But that would require all those inf mains that mained locker to accep the fact that there are people who want to have fun with vehicles. And that will not happen

[final sierra]

You ain’t kiddin

[median jungle]

No I am not. That's suprisingly common mindset and sad thing too

[silk ferry]

i was a bf4 24/7 locker main

but apache would be too strong with cannons and rockets

absolute hell on earth

unless it got made useless with speed or manuverability

[median jungle]

No it wouldn't be too strong. It would be doing what it is designed to do. Kill. The game has fuck tone of players, like 254, but people treat any score above 80 made with vehicles as a reason to nerf them. Even tho That's barely 2/3 of enemy team, and inf can drop 2x of those numbers, and they do that often.
But hey, that's vehicles, so it's a no no.

[rocky current]

jeopardy theme

[silk ferry]

i believe we should only have littlebird hell, not littlebird+better littlebird hell

[median jungle]

It would work, especially if you balance it around AV not inf farm, with small radiouses of explosives. And add proper counters, like SPAA, and AA for inf, stationary buildible or limited launchers.
Then add it only to the biggets maps. And avoid Wakistan, because that's a perfect map for any aircraft

[whole jetty]

I always found it strange how people would go nuts when they see you get 80 kills to 0 deaths ingame. To them it must just seem so inconceivable for someone to actually prioritize their life ingame instead of meatgrinding. He ain't kidding.

[silk ferry]

anti vehicle would be nice now that youm entioend it, havent thought about it like that

[rocky current]

yep, this thread is well and truly gone off the rails now

[silk ferry]

Blackhawk attack variant = "no just buff minigun it's already a gunship"

[rocky current]

please dont thumb's up and checkmark react to a message mocking you, slaz. it makes me sad

[silk ferry]

you seemed to miss out some important stuff in the text too, or im schizophrenic and imagined that stuff said here was said in the og convo

[silk ferry]

let slaz be slaz

[median jungle]

Well, I belive that wr should have more depth in vehicle gameplay. More vehicles, more wasy to enjoy them and express skill. More ways to have fun. Limiting it to piss poor egg with 2 MG's is straight up boring and quite shallow. And limits wasy to expand air gameplay

[rocky current]

sorry, sorry

[silk ferry]

#off-topic message

ive amended my opinion

[median jungle]

We are still on the topic of gunships tho.
Alternatively there id BF2042 type gunship

[silk ferry]

i think he was more of referring to a different charcater here

[rugged shuttle]

i am littlebird man not airship man

[silk ferry]

who has made their feedback before

[silk ferry]

its about gunship variant of blackhawk

AKA littlebird+bh

[median jungle]

Huh?

[silk ferry]

one of the people reacting thumbs up

ok let me gather up my thoughts of what this suggestion is

@rocky current so basically a gunship variant of the blackhawk. this helicopter would have higher damage turrets (ideally 50 cal) with a higher velocity, damage, and accuracy, though at the cost of rate of fire compared to a minigun
the pilot could also have fixed forward facing machineguns, perhaps a slower firerate minigun
2nd seat would of course have FLIR spotting, maybe ability to use gun in seat
it would be slower by ~10km/h but no reduced manuverability as the BH is already sluggish, slower acceleration too?
total seats reduced to 6
2 front seat
2 gunners
2 passengers (side mounted, possibly fixed m249 style weapons as a turret for them? or just side seats lke already in BH)

[rocky current]

pretty much. about as similar to a blackhawk as a tank is to a BTR

[whole jetty]

Litterally just buff the miniguns.

[silk ferry]

This is a different thread.

[silk ferry]

#1152005809300045917

You're looking for that.

this could also tie into the attack helo idea, except substitue my suggestion of pilot having fixed guns with rockets

[median jungle]

Glorified BH. Literally not worth implementing. Just buff the miniguns. Basically flying shed that tries to farm inf.

If you want a gunship, propose something serious

[silk ferry]

like?

[median jungle]

Something that looks feels and is more fun than a Blackhawk

[silk ferry]

what do you mean by something serious

[silk ferry]

an uparmed blackhawk

[median jungle]

Like appache, or BF2042 gunships

[silk ferry]

BF2042 is a game

[median jungle]

Something more exciting. With more capabilities, with more flexibility than few more guns

[silk ferry]

vs

[silk ferry]

rockets? cannons?

[median jungle]

Basically

[silk ferry]

like this fella

[final sierra]

So you’re suggesting a Huey ?

[rocky current]

"nono just buff the miniguns!"

[final sierra]

An attack variant of the Blackhawk?

[silk ferry]

i dont have images on hand of a blackhawk with a minigun vs a blackhawk with actual frontal facing weapons

[silk ferry]

yes

with still limited trnasport

BH equivelant of armed littlebird

[rocky current]

what a wild concept, right?

[median jungle]

That seems righ. But at this point just add apache. Same role, better look more flexibility, fits more into what players know and expect

[final sierra]

Then this thread has been defined in my eyes.

[silk ferry]

BH would still give limited transport option

[rocky current]

i wish slaz had your eyes

[silk ferry]

@rocky current rename rename rename!

[final sierra]

He gets it

[rocky current]

wait to what exactly!

[silk ferry]

i believe the DAP version of the blackhawk can carry literally the exact same as the apache

[median jungle]

That's what basicl BH is for

[rocky current]

you gotta treat me like im stupid. because i am

[silk ferry]

30mm cannon, apart from fixed

[silk ferry]

true true

[silk ferry]

Blackhawk Attack Variant
or smthng

but still oki wouldnt have to create an entirely new model

that'd take 10 years to make

[final sierra]

Could change it to different Blackhawk variants?

[rocky current]

Blackhawk Attack Variant or smthng

[silk ferry]

literally copied exactly what i said

[rocky current]

must treat me like im stupid

[silk ferry]

but still we could have both

[rocky current]

i will 100% look a gift horse in the mouth

[silk ferry]

more variety is better after all

i'll just call this gunship blackhawk DAP

[median jungle]

Then just add Apachee at this point. Looks better, fulfils the same role, and you can pretend that's new vehicle.
And a lot of people loves apachee.
So like, free marketing and brownie points

[silk ferry]

DAP could be intended for light attack
apache for anti-vehicle

[rocky current]

DAPhawk

[silk ferry]

but but.. muh blackhawk

[rocky current]

Dap60

there, names sorted

[median jungle]

You alredy have one. There is no second Balckhawk

[silk ferry]

DAP just means direct attack penetrator

[rocky current]

PenetratorHawk

[silk ferry]

that is precisely what this suggestion is

[rocky current]

got it

[whole jetty]

Oki is explicitly against this to my best knowledge and the times I've asked. "Does not fit into the vision of the game" ect ect

[median jungle]

Literally just add Apachee/KA52 if you want to slap autoca nons and/or rockets on BH

[silk ferry]

Against what?

[silk ferry]

apache/mi-28

[median jungle]

a.k.a not fun for you

[silk ferry]

this would still fit within Oki's guidelines

[rocky current]

so much armament on a single heli, im guessing

[median jungle]

Works too

[silk ferry]

though russian equivelant would be made up upgrade

[silk ferry]

i believe slaz took the image too literally

[rocky current]

thats my guess

[silk ferry]

AKA assumed ATGMs wouldb e present

the 30mm cannon of the apache is fitted there, but maybe with no ammo?

[rocky current]

and probably move a bit of the pilot-operated firepower in that image and integrate it into the copilot-operated cam-pod

[silk ferry]

but even with this apache arugment, all 3 attack helicopters (if apache and DAP were to be added) would fulfill different roles

Littlebird - Light attack, small maps
DAP - Medium attack, small-medium maps
Apache - Heavy attack, medium-large maps

[whole jetty]

He doesn't want attack helicopters and jets in the game.

[silk ferry]

Cool, good thing I didn't post an image of one

depending on who you ask

also thats a complete lie i did

though it'd only be considered attack due to the armament loaded on pylons

which could

hold on for a second

you won't believe this

be fitted with fixed facing miniguns

[rocky current]

ive seen where he says he wont add jets, but i have yet to see him specifically say no to gunships/attack helis

[silk ferry]

slazenger isnt going schizo mode on this atleast

ive seen it too

the whole point of this is

a helicopter that would fit in those guidelines

[rocky current]

ive seen where it says no to missiles, in the suggestions "Read before"

[silk ferry]

as its just an armed LB in BH form with some more boom boom

[rocky current]

but theres no universal law saying an attack-oriented helicopter must have missiles

[rocky current]

so yeah, i dont see why theres some assumption that doing exactly this is just 12 kinds of impossible

[lean grove]

If you seriously think that Oki can add gunship considering the state of current helicopters and vehicles in general, you are big dreamers)

[rocky current]

and what exactly do you think the entire point of suggestion threads is?

[median jungle]

Which makes it

1. Unable to tackle armour, so inf farming
2. Relies on multicrew, so underperforming majority of times (average teammate iq of 12)
3. Quite boring
4. Flying coffin

[silk ferry]

1. Exactly
2. Exactly
3. How
4. No difference

also 2 it doesn't, pilot would still have some weaker forward facing guns

[median jungle]

To be ignored by devs if it's about vehicles, like they did for over a year now.

[silk ferry]

Grue

[lean grove]

It's just a fact. There's no point in arguing

[rocky current]

1 and 2 are massive assumptions, 3 is literally an opinion, and 4 doesnt even qualify as an unsupported claim

[rocky current]

[silk ferry]

all vehicles are coffins

[rocky current]

so is a house if you squint hard enough

[median jungle]

I second that. Anything related to vehicles in BBR is wishfull thinking so far. Devs doesn't care, except if its nerfs.

[rocky current]

then we just keep suggestion real loud-like until we break oki's spirit

giving up means oki wins by default

[median jungle]

It's not a assumption if it have to be according to guidelines.
It is boring, yes.
And 4 is very much what every vehicle in BBR is, especially APC's and BH

[silk ferry]

every veihcle can die easily, so can BH, this is just uparmed (not armored) BH so still a coffin unless flown cautiously

[median jungle]

Well, many tired so far. More than you do. Nothing changed.

[whole jetty]

Buff the minguns and it's the same thing then.

[lean grove]

The truth is that he doesn't make the game for us. He's making his dream game. And that's not a bad thing, it's just a fact

[median jungle]

Just give up and go play BF if you want vehicle gameplay

It hurts me to say it, but that's the reality I learned the hard way

[whole jetty]

If you want to kill/contest infantry, use the miniguns (lol)
If you want anti armor capabilities, use heat rockets from F10/11/12 in the helicopter.
There's your attack variant. The best thing about it is that it is teamplay oriented. Everyone is kitted up and in their role.

[silk ferry]

1. Read the suggestion
2. Not part of the suggestion

[silk ferry]

how? explain fully how it is

[whole jetty]

You want an uparmed (not armored) BH. Rightfully buffing the miniguns is uparming it.

[silk ferry]

great

now go read what has been stated in this thread