#How to increase TTK without increasing TTK

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

carmine lodge
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  1. Implement locational damage. Reduce damage on limb hits, currently it's actually better to hit limbs because they're unarmored and they're the size of tree trunks which segues to the second point

  2. Reduce the size of the model and hitbox of the characters. Currently the characters are very low detail. The models are pretty much billboards when facing head-on, reducing the unrealistically wide hitbox/model would make it harder to optimal TTK someone.

  3. Increase recoil overall. Most weapons in this game are lasers at full auto and can beam people from over 100 meters away. Increasing recoil to a point where burst control is advantageous would increase TTK in long distance engagements.

  4. Change how armor works. This is already being talked about by the devs. This is the easiest way to change TTK. As it stands, armor already increases TTK if you hit it. Currently it's just an obnoxious way to lose a fight, when you hit their armor and you need an extra shot to kill. The problem is that it doesn't always work because the armor actually has to be hit, so we essentially have the inverse of locational damage currently. You could increase TTK if armor always absorbed a hit to the body and could be replaced/repaired without dying (perhaps by a support player using teamwork).

    I know these changes would increase the skill gap, which might be opposing what the devs want, but I would argue that aim skill is currently almost unimportant in this game in its current state. Also the reason I'm making this is because I believe actually increasing TTK will kill the game and I want to present alternatives.

TLDR:

  1. Locational damage
  2. Change hitboxes
  3. Increase recoil
  4. Rework armor
minor glade
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these are all the proper way, instead of adding more hp or making guns do less damage

steel wolf
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1 and 4 I’m all for 2 and 3 I’m very meh on

cursive fable
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rework armor for sure, make it not useless after the first gun fight will for sure snuff out the light and ranger armor, empty helmet smg zoomer scene. Increase ttk beyond that, I think it is a shot in the foot, ttk doesnt feel a issue for me.

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Increase recoil, most guns that are lasers dont have a good ttk

wintry geyser
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I wouldn't increase recoil because it could make a bigger gap between good players and average ones a bit too big

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Agree with the rest for sure, increasing ttk is a lazy way to balance the game

thorn rapids
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👍

verbal jasper
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Had me in the first part

upbeat bramble
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i fuck with this heavy 🔥

steel wolf
carmine lodge
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these are just suggestions obviously. Don't take it as a whole package deal

knotty sable
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The lower your ping the more of an advantage one has.

atomic quail
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I much prefer these to damage changes

ancient laurel
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Im really just interested to see what @amber scaffold thinks of this.

cosmic lion
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Lowering the BTK will make the game more tactical, not increasing it.

sharp kestrel
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The game has 0 accuracy stat or what some people call bloom. Number 3 should be changed to adding that so that overall guns have a new way to be balanced for their proper ranges they were meant for. This means additionally the option to add these effects to the attacments, allowing them to have more depth. It can also introduce additional attachments in that sense.

ancient laurel
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No bloom feels so good though. I dont think its needed at all.

atomic quail
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mmhm. I would far prefer high H-recoil to bloom.

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it does seem to have a small amount of bloom currently but only for specific guns such as the vector, which has the worst in the game but it's still hard to see. Not that it matters at all for a gun with 10m damage dropoff start

ancient laurel
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They need to review damage curves vector beams 200 meters

velvet tulip
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We battling bits with this one

smoky folio
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Bias like ps2 would be funni tho

minor glade
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The only one I outright disagree with is models. other than that, go nuts

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hope oki sees this before goign straight for the damage values

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playtests felt good bc hitreg was rough and recoil was high, this is as close as you'll get to immitating it without reintroducing worse hitreg

velvet tulip
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hope oki sees this before goign straight for the nerfing snipers again for some reason

minor glade
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If guns are getting their range nerfed snipers are going down with them

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that's not even a maybe

smoky folio
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  1. Sure if bullet pass through or whatever you wanna call it gets added
  2. Idk
  3. Would prefer bias but idc
  4. Yes remove it
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Did devs asking get removed booooooo

atomic quail
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removing armour really complicates balance

smoky folio
minor glade
minor glade
smoky folio
minor glade
carmine lodge
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armor would only be on body shots if locational damage is implemented. My thought process is that it feels bad for someone to hit armor and not get the kill essentially because they got unlucky, or the inverse where someone kills you in 3 shots because they never hit your armor. In my opinion armor currently feels inconsistent and bad for everyone, as well as complicating weapon balancing.

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Helmets in my opinion should just be removed other than exo (because that's the identity of support). No player should ever be punished for a headshot. If you kill me in .1 seconds then congratulations, however the game should tell you if the person who killed you shot you in the head to reduce complaints of instant death.

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What if when someone kills you with a headshot when not wearing a helmet you instantly die instead of bleeding out, however if they kill you through the helmet you are put into to bleedout? I think this would fit the game and seems like a good addition to thread the line of arcade and milsim which this game is currently attempting.

minor glade
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Helmets can stay, you're still doing bonus damage that can give you one less bullet and face protection is non-existent

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Especially if snipers continue to one tap through helmets

carmine lodge
minor glade
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I can see what you mean

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but at that point you should commit fully to no helmets, exception with exo doesn't work

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Decent compromise could be to have helmets simply reduce the headshot multiplier instead of outright remove it?

tranquil socket
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“When everyone’s super, no one else will be.”

smoky folio
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But yeah it fits if armor is just becoming second hp now

carmine lodge
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I think the purpose of armor should be to help lower skill players to get at least one kill per life, and make going on long streaks more difficult. That's a good way to reduce the skill gap IMO. In its current state it's just an inconsistent annoyance.

smoky folio
minor glade
high oriole
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I agree with the suggestion to change the armor and work out the limb damage in more detail.

Working with the size of the fighter and his hitbox..... is a controversial topic, it's a style of play. Alas. But it is very playable.

Increased recoil... no. It's moderately comfortable and moderately hardcore. I'm already envisioning a symbiosis of increased recoil and increased TTK. For hardcore mode, very possible. For arcade, no 100%

smoky folio
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Bias would probably be fine enough

verbal jasper
minor glade
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tf is bias tho

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recoil bias?

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I mean I guess it'd be neat idk what it would solve tho

smoky folio
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Nothing

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Itll be funny

atomic quail
pine kiln
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--
FP Recoil.
I know you all like that your weapon is merged with your arms as a monolith (and you pay with your movement speed for it)

...but simple ahk script allows to skip the moment you waiting and dragging mouse to correct position of point.
It could be rarely case but i guess no.
Once you understand its working - you will use script.

So recoil part of weapons and its randomness have to be fully realized in-game way:

  • moving mouse causes inertia
  • using any scope causes breath shaking
  • using scope forces delay to preparation instead of holo dots
  • and instead of ironsights - that is conceptually different - it has less delay than scope, but allow you to shot very big distance (prone state) using zeroing (instead of holodots that is unapplicable on 100+ meters just about dot size)
  • shooting will return point back by y axis, delayed by time, that makes writing script much harder

Also snipers. That could drink coffee until that discussion continues, just because they do one shot, and most rage thing of any game - 1 headshot from sniper per 10 seconds. That actually changes nothing in game, but completly breaks your personal participation effect, you start to play "until alive" instead of "survive"

With snipers there's so few variants.

  1. One sniper per no-recon squad (most logical, and... no teamplay to protect sniper)
  2. Sniper slot arrives accidentally like helicopter on the spawn (no teamplay to protect sniper, because you think you're winner)
  3. Sniper could use deployable respawn point as in BF (whats with snipers that ignore their role?)
  4. Maps that separated with enough high objects that forces sniper to control only part of battlezone (hard to test is anything changed)
  5. Dropping sniper equipment from the air (time delay between drops, time delay until its falling, protecting place), initially start with marksman rifles (idea from that damn warzone, where you could buy your prepared weaponset)
pine kiln
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One sniper is not a problem, and even less problem than no-sniper, he's weaker.
Once snipers everywhere - game transforms to suicide run.

modern mirage
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im good with everything other than smaller hitboxes because i think that might just make the skill gap worse (lot more than the other ones)

smoky folio
vestal crow
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Agree with OP post.

verbal relic
# carmine lodge I think the purpose of armor should be to help lower skill players to get at lea...

Why people insist on making the skill gap lower, I can't wrap my head around it. You are playing multiplayer game, expect that there might be better people than you. Same with anything in life. If you tell me that it's to appease casuals so the playerbase can grow back again then I can easily give you an example of battlefield 5 that has similar or slightly higher skill ceiling than battlebit (longer ttk for example) and yet is being played by not sweats in large numbers.

carmine lodge
verbal relic
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If rewarding good players is a bad thing, then give everybody aimbot to make it fair, ridiculous

carmine lodge
# verbal relic As I already told you, that's not the case for battlefield 5 even though it has ...

BF5 currently has 3 times as many players as battlebit. Most of the people sticking with battlebit are autistic sweats like myself. This game needs to regain the average player to stay alive. I come from destiny which has a such a massive skill gap in PVP that newer players get ripped to shreds in a few games and never touch it again, leaving only a miserable sweat fest, and players who suck so bad that they don't even care. I would argue a lower skill gap with a larger player base is better for high skill players, unless if you enjoy playing against other sweats.

ancient laurel
# modern mirage im good with everything other than smaller hitboxes because i think that might j...

Raising the skill gap is the point. Anything you do to make it so that it is harder to get kills will reduce the number of people in the game who are able to kill people, which means it will be easier to stay alive for longer. There is a difference in how it feels to a new player between "I just spawned in and got shot from nowhere for the 10th time in a row" and "I just shot at a guy and missed most of my shots so I died". The latter is far better for retention.

verbal relic
cursive fable
sage spoke
# ancient laurel Raising the skill gap is the point. Anything you do to make it so that it is har...

Tell that to the Planetside playersbase. The most common complaint there is that a new player will dump a dozen bullets into someone without killing them and promptly get dumpstered by a vet in 3 shots.

The balance between getting killed from "nowhere" but still being able to kill vs having a bit more survivability but reduced ability to get a kill at all isn't as cut and dried as you might think.

pine hamlet
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most guns are outclassed at the moment cause of their slow TTK, increasing the TTK as a whole would make those weapons even less viable. I agree with pretty much everything u said

tranquil socket
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“When everyone’s super, no one else will be.”

atomic quail
sand jungle
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well yes in a way but some guns wouldn't need a recoil increase because that would just ruining the gun because they already have such a high recoil aka FAL and some others the names i cant remember.

pine kiln
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Current weapon recoils are good... for prone state.

hoary copper
sage spoke
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Current Scorpion isn't worth the effort in the slightest.

plush coral
sage spoke
fringe bridge
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My man did not discover the wonders of the vertical grip

fallen sinew
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burk for that reload

fringe bridge
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Yknow what, fuck vertical and and burk

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Slap that bmc grip or whatever its called

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Real men increase recoil on their evo

fallen sinew
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i am for real tho

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fuck v-grip

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chads use the burk

fringe bridge
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Tbh burk or short shift would be good if you can afford to rip your mouse out

fallen sinew
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that fsk 😩

sage spoke
atomic quail
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didn't know we were quantifying guns by effect/effort

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nearly as well is the key line there, because that extra effort expenditure decreases as you get more used to using the gun

fringe bridge
plush coral
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fal doesnt take any effort after attachment update, thing is a laser

modern snow
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same with vector, that hnk 9mm, an mp7, if you unlucky like me the server just says your dead before you even see the muzzle animation

plush coral
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and scorp is faster than all of them

modern snow
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which is why ppl who die to it go for the one up mentality an either go for a battle rifle or one of the above I mentioned to get a better outcome to only die ..... again

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right now it is literally a competition between dps vs rpm with the server favoring rpm, which is why alot of ppl are running towards weapons like fal,scar, an dmr's
Or more as of recent the scorp

modern snow
fringe bridge
sage spoke
sage spoke
atomic quail
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Personally I just don’t like SMGs in general but for those that do, the EVO’s range is pretty typical for them

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Actually checking again it’s notably better than most of them on the range front

ember sigil
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Just make guns do less damage

latent phoenix
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just copy planetside 2

ember sigil
latent phoenix
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good argument

plush coral
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idk, weapon damage been fine since release, idk why it needs to change now

smoky folio
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Reject tapping crouch embrace lean spamming

sage spoke
fringe bridge
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Mp5 and mp7 are more less on the same effective range which isnt like significantly better than evo

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Its better but not that much

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Evo is just faster

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While fal is good at cqc full auto on range is very hit or miss

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Unless you are using it as a budget dmr

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But full auto fal has about the same effectivness as scorpion long range

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Horizontal just aint working in fals favor

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Regardless evo is a perfectly balanced cqc weapon

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Its absolutely worth it if you want cqc deletion

sage spoke
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Effective range and usable range are not the same thing. Anyways, agree to disagree. We'll see what happens in the future with that gun.

ancient laurel
rapid osprey
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i only have 36k kills with it

thorn rapids
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too much yapping

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if you agree just give tick

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or X if you don't

tranquil socket
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Still waiting for headshots to be useful for every gun (not just snipers)

fallen sinew
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they are lol

tranquil socket
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snipers obviously

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a lot of torso

fallen sinew
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everything with 32dmg
dmrs
all br except the g3
mp7
p90

modern snow
tranquil socket
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true

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good point

smoky folio
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Lean:

ancient crystal
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1 - for milsim gamemode
2 - I guess yeah
3 - please no
4 - defineatly

smoky folio
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💀

raw steeple
unkempt moss
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add dispersion and more recoil to weapons, so that medium and long combat is based on "Damage per bullet" and not on "Damage per second" as currently happens

unkempt moss
minor glade
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your secret club isn't secret

golden briar
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?

unkempt moss
unkempt moss
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Oh! I already remembered the Battlebit server I have so I can talk without interruptions?

thorn rapids
unkempt moss
fallen sinew
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i wonder why...

unkempt moss
thorn rapids
unkempt moss
thorn rapids
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can't be more dead than OCE

fallen sinew
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legends say Slaz is still coping

smoky folio
fluid island
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This makes a lot of sense. Especially since the ttk on paper isn't that slow. Most weapons are the same shots to kill as bf4