Medic Box Rework

[stark gorge]

Medic has been kinda left out in a way ever since the update where everyone heals faster with bandages (and heal more too).
Since then the medic's box kinda lost it's purpose. Medic box heal isn't nearly as fast as healing with 2 bandages and given it's the only way a medic can heal himself, it is currently a bit of a handicap. Not to mention that healing players is hard enough.

So I propose to give it the ability to resupply the team with bandages.

• Instead of self healing, medic will now resupply allies with bandages (he can still heal others), like how support does with ammo. Medic will not able to resupply himself with bandages on the fly.
• Dropping one acts like an ammo box, but you can only get a large amount of bandages.

Due to these changes the class itself would need a few changes.

• Medic now uses bandages for healing (Starting bandage number is now 10).
• Medic revived team members get 50 health instead of 35.
• It would also be desirable to replace some gadgets the medic currently has with other new gadgets (example defiblirator, check https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1193255182469976245).

[chilly nebula]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1193255182469976245

and this

(im not bumping it truedevil dont sue me)

[stark gorge]

We shall support each other to make medic into a medic

[chilly nebula]

and shotguns to engineer

of course

[stark gorge]

Duh

[stark gorge]

We need argument here

[cobalt raven]

ive been cooking

but its not done yet

[low kindle]

so will the RMB also resupply bandages or just heal as usual, if it's the latter then I'd maybe prefer if it's buffed to not be completely useless to dropping

[stark gorge]

No i meant just resupply bandages
No healing

I imagine dropping medic box to give more bandages than say heavy ammo box

[low kindle]

gotcha

[cobalt raven]

I 100% agree the medic box needs modifications to make it a more, relevant gadget BUT, I dont like the idea of turning them into a bandage dispenser and the change to allow bandage self healing. Removing a direct heal feels like removing a lot of the identity of a medic in a first person shooter, so what if we just made healing, better?

Give the medic kit the ability to heal through a bleed, and after healing the bandage equivalent (50 hp), the bleed is removed as normal and healing can continue. Healing yourself and allies would both have this capacity and make the process of being a medic mechanically smoother, and functionally faster. Removing the weapon switching animation saves a few seconds per interaction. As a player I am more enticed to do something if it is easier to do.

This comes with its own risks, two medics would be able to hold down RMB and heal each other but, they will be defenseless while in that state. With no defense and the games very fast time to kill it feels less likely to spiral into a heal off. Medic piles are still subject to c4 and explosives, being resed at low health and having to be healed to full would not be any faster.

A second risk is having infinite "get out of bleed" potential, as long as they dont die in 1 bullet or 1 frame, they can hold LMB and run around. This does fundamentally increase your chances of surviving by removing the delay from switching between bandages and the med box. That might be too much and is worth calling out. I am inclined again to believe that the games time to kill is still a reasonable barrier against becoming an un-killable juggernaut scampering around like the greased up deaf guy.

The medic would have the over all bandage count reduced. Its practically infinite with the current 20 count, and reducing that makes the "super medic" scenario less sustainable, while also forcing additional team play.

good luck and, there are additional impacts and risks, but imma let this just simmer for a bit first.

[haughty night]

I would actually be okay with a combination of the two, perhaps a bandage box for a primary gadget option with the medic bandage carry count down to around 10 (possibly less? more? idk) plus the implementation of bleed curing on the medic box?

That seems like a good balance of active and passive team play to me. You can drop the box before reviving to give bandages for teammates who are just going to self bandage and just the box being down incentivizes them to not just run off right away when revived, but you don't have infinite chain revives anymore because you have to replenish yourself as well. Flip side you also don't burn them all bandaging bleeds because of the medic box being active healing. Seems smoother and still balanced to me.

[cobalt raven]

My only apprehension around introducing more bandages to the thrown box is purely how many other bandages already exist. There is a slow, or sometimes not so slow, creep of health per second in the game and thats a fine line to walk before you hit a break point of "i cant do enough damage". Then again, current behavior is to carry and ammo box to generate more bandages any way.

[haughty night]

I would maybe just remove bandages from all ammo boxes, fuck it make ammo boxes give armor instead while we're at making huge game play changes. 💀 half joking but maybe more food for thought? 🤔

[cobalt raven]

Its a very hard sell to remove player power, in this case self healing, for the sake of buffing other classes. It would move the needle towards "more team play" in theory, but i dont know if that is how it would pan out in practice. Thats the arms race of healing thats already started unfortunately.

[haughty night]

Yeah its tough to balance all these things at once, but it does feel more team oriented to me. I don't know that I usually run out of bandages on assualt that often unless I'm with my team anyway though, usually flanking and sweating I'm more looking for high KPM so i just need to survive long enough to pull it off. I DO run out on supp but 99.9999% of the time a medic is with me anyways.

[cunning agate]

I mean I love the idea of being able to resupply bandages cause I always run out on assault but that’s probably just cause I’m a noob who plays slow still

[ebon pollen]

Honestly, medic being the one that can resupply your bandages is the best idea possible, BUT, I still think medic needs a way of healing others

I think I've said it in my "desperate need of an identity for medic and assault" thread, but a good way of doing that could be replacing your bandages (or add another slot with healing items) with a syringe, insta heal allies something like 50/70 HP, very limited, maybe 6 or so

This way medic not only resupplies your way of healing, he himself stays as a strong healer

[lean moss]

if the boxes could actually be resupplied, just take the self heal away from box, and buff ally heal to at least be 75% of bandage rate.

[stark gorge]

Based on what y'all suggested making a medic just a bandage dispenser does kinda take away medic's identity, but personally I think having a bit of an unconventional medic is an interesting idea imo.
That being said, after reading all of the stuff said here, it is the best call in this case to also allow him to heal allies, just at a faster rate, while excluding self healing, having medic heal from bandages alone (preferably with the same speed as everyone else).
There is a lot more that can be done around medic to not make him just another assault class (same goes for other classes to an extent as well) but there are thread about that stuff somewhere already.
Overall good cookin fellas

[vernal kernel]

tbh since both medic & support are able to see a player's ammo/health/bleed state they should be able to quickly support them without the hassle of switching to the item to do so

since we have a hotkey for bandage on bleeding players. why not have the same hotkey for medic when the player isnt bleeding

where by the medic will auto pull out his medkit to heal instead of having to press the specific hotkey

this opinion of mine is just to state for ease of access since I sometimes fumbled between the hotkeys for my equipment

[stark gorge]

Could be a good idea

[languid igloo]

I would make the medic revival even faster. I would leave the ability to heal with a box in hand as it is now. But plus you can heal with bandages too. Maybe add more experience points for treatment, and that I am treated once in 5 games and that if I myself very strongly ask in the microphone. Also faster lifting of wounded would be more motivated to do it, and now I am lifted by anyone but a medic.

[copper steppe]

if medic is restricted to bandage self healing, why would they not be able to resupply themself using the box?

[stark gorge]

They can if they drop it
Just not on the fly

[copper steppe]

ah that makes sense

[stark gorge]

Should prolly update post to avoid confusion

[vernal kernel]

make medic revive faster than people giving up XD

[languid igloo]

Yes, that's right!

[median frost]

I don’t think we need to remove healing friendlies to add bandage resupply. Just have bandage refill passively occur while healing.

[dawn oracle]

====
YES. Big letters here.
Simple enough, and removes OP from "doctor" (thats actually terminator)

[velvet apex]

#1193257418285666374

very simmalar

[stark gorge]

a

[stark gorge]

Bumper

[subtle flare]

The funny thing is that medics can already drop bandages for teammates but it's bugged out lel

[stark gorge]

Its not pactical one bit

[copper steppe]

nobody can even see them

[stark gorge]

True, not only are they not visible enough, they also disappear really fast

You have like 5 seconds before they are gone forever

You are basically risking the loss of bandages

[fiery pivot]

Honestly medic's just due for a QoL and this (along with something that would allow for faster revives given the current state of the game/revives generally not being worth it) would take it in the right direction

Funnily enough, medic went from what some saw as "too powerful" to completely situational/useless overnight (med kit heal is just way too slow vs bandaging in general, even more so true if the player is currently bleeding.) Medic's been due for a rework and im not against giving him more tools to do medic things, whilst still being able to fight off enemies

[mellow pine]

Imo medic should still have the option of the current medic box but this and the difib should also be there.

[iron hornet]

Came over from #1222064377755209778 , I actually would still like to have medics be able to self heal with the medic kit as it is now. Nice to have a perk or two for each class (rip assault with nothing at all except a rifle that everyone has lol).

But yes definitely defib on medics, that'd be so cool to watch and do.

[iron hornet]

Devs already said they won't do shotguns rip

[iron hornet]

What if instead of nerfing the number of bandages medics can carry, we dilute the value of them having so many by giving all the other classes 10 bandages instead of the current 6?

[copper steppe]

why would anyone even need medics if they have 10 bandages

like limited bandages is probably the only thing that makes people need medic heals right now

[iron hornet]

Ever revive so many teammates that you run out of bandages? No? Thought so.

Plus being able to save a bandage by letting a medic heal you is always nice.

[copper steppe]

not sure what the point of the first statement is. are you talking about medic or other classes?

being able to save a bandage is nice but is pointless if you most likely won't run out anyway

[iron hornet]

Other classes. In a hactic round between healing yourself and reviving teammates 6 bandages go pretty quick

[copper steppe]

yeah so why would you make it 10

makes medic more useless than it already is

[iron hornet]

Medics aren't useless lol, I love how they can save me a bandage when I'm at 60-70 HP by bringing me back to full, instead of me running around with that low HP or wasting a bandage

[copper steppe]

but you will make them more useless by increasing to 10?

[iron hornet]

Keep in mind not everyone who plays medic (or any class) plays like they're supposed to. I'm a new player and I very quickly learned to play every class properly (the best I can), but not every player is like that, plus sometimes there just aren't enough medics to cover everyone that gets killed at the same time so 🤷

[copper steppe]

sure there are bad medics but the greater issue right now is that people just ignore medics and heal themselves

because 6 is often more than enough

especially with resupply boxes

increasing the base to 10 will just demotivate medics further

the point of this thread is to buff medics

[iron hornet]

People ignore medics because medics can't always get to them in time. Do I really wanna wait for a medic that I don't know has to travel how far to get to me when I'm bleeding out or was just revived or should I just bandage myself and get back in the fight? Right?

[copper steppe]

ok this might just be because you're new but in the past there used to be more medics in general and they were more willing to go out of their way to heal you. a lot of people have stopped playing medic or playing it actively because they'll run up to someone to heal them only for them to self-bandage to full

[iron hornet]

I've done the same thing because the UI sometimes isn't obvious enough for me to realize a medic is working on me. When I do I always stop bandaging and let the medic do their thing.

[copper steppe]

with more medics in general it will take less time for a medic to get to you

what you're suggesting is to just make the class more useless because it's already kind of useless

[iron hornet]

Or maybe people should just start playing medic more? I haven't run out of bandages playing other classes that many times (since I don't usually survive long enough to run out lol) but seeing as this is happening I'd like to have a few more bandages on hand just in case

[copper steppe]

Or maybe people should just start playing medic more?
and how do we do that exactly? by making medic more useful

[iron hornet]

Ok, maybe in this case allow them to use the medic kit to revive people instead of having to use a bandage (either cut down their total bandage to 15 or keep it at 20 and still allow them to use it to revive), and definitely keep self heal

[copper steppe]

imo they should just give medics the same bandage self heal as everyone else
and give them 15 + 15 bandages in the box or something like that
keep the right click healing allies but remove the left click self heal

[iron hornet]

Or just keep it as is, who doesn't like giving themselves nearly infinite lives lol.

Idk if they can use the medic kit to self heal through a bleed but if not make that happen too.

[copper steppe]

if they keep the current method they should at least allow medics to self heal with bandages

because currently bandage self heal is faster than box self heal

[iron hornet]

Sure bandages may be faster but the med kit never dries up unlike bandages

[copper steppe]

true but medic deserves at least the same self heal speed as other classes

thats part of the reason people stopped playing it

[iron hornet]

In that case ok fair enough. Maybe give them that same self heal speed to the medic kit so they don't have to dip into the bandages. There, another perk for that class.

On 2nd thought maybe increase the other classes' bandages to 8 not 10. Better balanced now?

[copper steppe]

personally i think 6 is a sweet spot

any more and i might not even run ammo box anymore

because you're just inherently nerfing medic with any increase

[iron hornet]

Medics should be able to self heal using bandages, so broken that they can't rn.

Maybe there should be an indicator for players (non medics) showing how far out the nearest medic is when they're hurt, not just for when they're killed, but not the same for medics because that can be distracting.

Medic kits should definitely heal faster, for both teammates and self.

Medic kits should also be able to revive, instead of having to use bandages. Make both able to do that I guess?

7-8 bandages for non medics don't hurt that much, as long as more people play medic and actually play it like they're supposed to.

Being able to carry more than 2 medic kits and grenades would help greatly too, especially considering how Support can carry 4 grenades and 3 heavy ammo kits at the same time. Maybe 3 each would be appropriate for medics? If that means cutting medics' bandages down to 15 I think that'd be fair.

Also the M320 smoke GL's leaf sight needs to work. Bringing it closer to eye level doesn't do 💩

Below is my first time being on the leaderboards, enjoy!

[stark gorge]

Personally having medic box not have the ability to self heal while equipped is probably the best call. Medic currently is a glorified assault with slower self heal. Not having self heal (while equipped) pushes more towards helping others rather than helping oneself and allowing him to use his own bandages gives him a boost in the self healing department, but not to the point of being limitless.
Giving all classes more bandages does nerf medic. Given bandages can be used for self healing, giving more bandages inherently allows more survivability for other classes and less reliance on medics, therefor it is a bad call to do that. Medic is heavily underpowered for a number of reasons and having him be even more so by giving others more bandages is silly.

Generally best way to make medic box work is to make it give out bandages and heal teammates while equipped. While dropped it allows resupplying on bandages, like how supports ammo box works currently, but it also allows for healing both yourself and your team in a similar speed and manner of how it works right now instead of "hold button and wait 5 seconds for 15 hp".

[iron hornet]

With medic class being so unpopular as it is I cannot imagine what will happen if they can no longer self heal via the medic kit. Sure they have 20 bandages but that's still one less tool they have. You take that away people might just think there's no practical difference between assault and medic, and at least for now there's still something.

Medic kit can definitely use a faster healing speed for all, rn if you're below half it feels like a life time for it to work

All right I'll settle for 8 bandages for non medics. Depending on your play style this can come in handy, and I'll just say that for anyone still playing medic rn, please give everything you got every round. I'm new and suck at this game (45 hours as of this msg) and I still try to do that so you can do it too.

[manic bluff]

8 bandages for everyone seems too much

change it so that reviving takes a bandages from the one getting revived and not the person reviving and more ppl would revive without sacrificing their own bandages

[fiery pivot]

Im gonna be that guy, what if the dead person lacks bandages?

although its probably just a case of “no revive for you”

[manic bluff]

then it uses yours

but as long as he has some it should use his

[stark gorge]

Why exactly?

Seems a bit excessive and nonsensical

Like you are just kinda punishing people for being revived

[manic bluff]

either you punish the dude reviving (that is already helping you) or you punish the one that gets revived (the one that gets already helped)

beside ig more ppl would revive if they knew that they aint waisting their bandages

[stark gorge]

Now you have a problem of people not wanting to be revived cause it wastes their own bandages

[manic bluff]

and die? so dying is better than getting rezzed because it uses a bandage?

[stark gorge]

Imagine being revived to the point you have no bandages left

Sure others will have em

But as if medics are reliable or fast healers

[cobalt raven]

yall cooking up some real wild shit

[stark gorge]

Nah idk what haros on abt

[manic bluff]

imagine not being revived otherwise

[stark gorge]

Imagine being punished for being revived

[manic bluff]

why shouldnt you?

why should the one reviving get the punishment?

[cobalt raven]

You are already dead that's the punishment

[stark gorge]

Can you name one game that did such moronic shit

[manic bluff]

no but i cant name a game where you are using your healing tool as a revive either (except maybe squad idk)

but pls answer my question

[tropic yacht]

Why should both the guys in this situation get punished

[cobalt raven]

The short answer is, it's already a risk and a resource drain for the person resing and the penalty for being resd is your ass was already dead not helping

[tropic yacht]

Like jesus just the fact of being revived in the frontlines were one is busy reviving and the other is dead isnt enough

[cobalt raven]

Bandage resource management is not an exciting mini game

[tropic yacht]

True

[manic bluff]

how is the resource management any different than now?

[cobalt raven]

Another player can't force remove it from me currently and, bleeding is going away anyway. Make the systems less complex to understand and more people overall will have fun

[manic bluff]

but you are getting revived? is it better to let you die?

[stark gorge]

Yes

[manic bluff]

makes no sense to me

[stark gorge]

Cause i at least get everything back

Its already a problem in the game

And with that you would only reinforce it

[tropic yacht]

If you are out of bandages
Dead in the frontline were someone else can die trying to revive
Out of ammo
Or the guy reviving is low on bandages
Or simply doesnt want because you will respawn in the next 5 seconds or less if on community servers

[cobalt raven]

There are absolutely situations where death and retreat are better. Ressing more people at 40% into a meat grinder isn't always a good choice

[manic bluff]

ppl respawning 5secs later 5m away is a different issue

[cobalt raven]

The individual player is in theory contributing to the over all team ticket count. Its not tdm

[stark gorge]

Still related

[tropic yacht]

True but it contributes with the many others that are in this issue

[manic bluff]

how is that related to my suggestion?

oh i see

ye thats an edge case

[cobalt raven]

I was replying to this question

[manic bluff]

ye i saw

[cobalt raven]

[manic bluff]

but how often does that happen? most of the time you still have enough resources worth reviving

[cobalt raven]

Bandages as a resource are a resource management in itself, more causal games have passive healing to remove that system. You can make it more complex, add caveats, but its still resources.

Depends on how you play and what you do. I dont have an answer that isn't a hypothetical

When looking at changes, I always question what is the pain point that's trying to be changed and what other systems and experiences are being impacted? The answer is generally a whole lot. I dont believe the resolution lies in bandage numbers

[manic bluff]

obv 4 sec spawn timer plays a huge part

[cobalt raven]

Default is six but yeh. So does squad spawning and ttk and map design and player move speed and combat legibility and the new player experience and so on and so forth

No change exists in a vacuum

[manic bluff]

but imagine that gets fixed. Why shouldnt the one getting revived use up one of his bandages?
The other person already risks his life to save you. Besides you could also revive while having no bandages left if the other one still has some

[cobalt raven]

same answer because you are already dead

You have received the punishment of not playing the game

[manic bluff]

you died because you suck and waste one bandage healing yourself
your friend did everything correct and still wastes one bandage rezzing you.
You both are down 1 bandage while one made a mistake and one helped

[cobalt raven]

"Image that gets fixed" what part my dude? Battlebit has a lotta problems from my perspective. The game i hypothesize is probably different than yours

[manic bluff]

i was talking about the respawn meta

[cobalt raven]

You died because you suck. Ah yes. Take a step back and ask. What problem are you solving by shifting the bandage use to the dead person? And what good situations are you creating

"Respawn meta" oh my lol

[manic bluff]

[stark gorge]

You are pretty much punishing the victim for dying by making their lifespan after being revived shorter

[manic bluff]

yes

[cobalt raven]

Why

[stark gorge]

Like you are still driving people away from revives

[cobalt raven]

What problem are you solving?

[stark gorge]

Cause now people dont want to be revived

[manic bluff]

because it doesnt punish the helper and you died so you deserve a punishment

[cobalt raven]

What positive situation are you creating?

[stark gorge]

You are literally solving the problem by creating another problem

[manic bluff]

they still want to be revived in that case

[median frost]

less so than before.

people bleed out a lot in this game intentionally as-is

[manic bluff]

...

[nova anvil]

You have to fit your entire chain of reasoning in like two lines or you're gonna lose them

[manic bluff]

ye i noticed

[stark gorge]

Tbf just add a defib to medic

[cobalt raven]

Haro i still don't know what you are solving or why. Like "get fucked scrub die less" is the only message you have conveyed so far

[stark gorge]

Pretty much

Kick the victim while they are down

Surely that makes a fun experience

[median frost]

the problem is incentivising revives

but this doesn't solve it, just pushes some of the disincentive more heavily towards one of the parties involved

[manic bluff]

im trying to shift the resource waste from the one helping to the one dying.

obv you could also just add a seperate tool for revives aside from bandages but oki doesnt seem like he will do that

[cobalt raven]

Why?

[median frost]

something important to consider though is that medics tend to have enough bandages where they usually don't even have to think about the loss because they won't run out. The person being revived may not have many.

[stark gorge]

We dont know that yet

[manic bluff]

im not talking about medics

[median frost]

they'd be involved.

[manic bluff]

the starting point of my suggestion was dont give everyone else more bandages but this

[median frost]

not sure what you mean by that

[manic bluff]

medics still heal with their own

*revive

[median frost]

ah ok, that is better then

Could also just make revives free in general. Doesn't make intuitive sense but incentivises them more

[manic bluff]

[median frost]

Does mean chokepoints full of players would be self reviving a little more readily though

which could be detrimental

[stark gorge]

Defib

[fiery pivot]

As it currently stands in this patch, (mainly in frontline and domi tbh, conq not so much because of vehicles) you gain more from just respawning than you do being revived

1 ticket in exchange for getting your armor back, + everything filled up to the brim on the frontlines is more worth it than not getting armor at all, or waiting for a long time to either be supplied or wait for a supply drop

Same could be said for invasion and ctf ofc but ctf isn’t that impacted by it, and invasion has vehicle support

[manic bluff]

ye thats an issue

the death/respawning mechanic needs to be redone

[fiery pivot]

If we could replen armor it wouldn’t be as much of an issue everything else aside

But since you can’t.. if you’re playing something like exo support and your helmet falls off/armor gets damaged a lot

There is zero reason to wait for a revive just to be disadvantaged in your next gunfight

[manic bluff]

ye thats true. The thought behind this was that that will be fixed soon / has already been addressed before this change

[cobalt raven]

boy do i have a surprise for you

"There will be some TTK changes to try and find a better balance for new players and veterans alike. It will start with assault being the faster paced class that will have near the same movements as before, but you will have less HP. Unlike support whose health will be buffed to compensate for the slower player movement"

Armor is being convered to flat hp

[fiery pivot]

I know of that already

Just stating that’s the current situation in this patch

[nova anvil]

They still have time to walk that awful idea back... feels like I'm watching the world's slowest trainwreck here.

[copper steppe]

i think it will be fun

for a short time

[stark gorge]

Eh depends how much its increased

We never saw how fast the ttk will actually be

[nova anvil]

Even with normal armor, you can definitely feel the difference when your shots hit it vs not. Unless the HP difference is trivial, which would defeat the whole point of the change, its definitely going to throw people off.

[stark gorge]

I mean im not expecting ttk to be like 2 seconds or something

I just think it will be noticable but not drastically

[iron hornet]

Guess that's 56 bandages I saved in 2 games. So by now I have run into players who ignore medics (like why lol) but I still think even with medic being the way it is we need more people playing it, and that people could use 8 bandages per spawn, it's really not that many if you play actively

[iron hornet]

Also just finished a game in which I went down to 8 bandages as a medic, eight, let that sink in for a second

[stark gorge]

I mean its not like you cant resupply your bandages

There are ways of doing it

Id rather have a medic drop his med box to allow resuppling bandages than for every class to have more bandages

[iron hornet]

Oh sure medics can always do that, but as we both know they won't always be available

[copper steppe]

still dont get how after playing medic you want to make yourself more useless