Curing the Sniper Epidemic

[modern quartz]

This will be fun.
Oki and team didn’t go far enough with the smoke trails.

Everyone wants to complain about having 100 snipers on each team, but no one likes the solutions, nor actually wants to solve the problem.
Here are some ideas. Implementing all of these would make snipers unusable and not fun. Implementing some of these is the point.

1. Decrease bullet velocity for snipers.
2. Increase bullet drop.
3. Set zeroing at 0, 500, 1000 meters.
4. Increase aim down time.
5. Decrease hold breath meter length
6. Decrease Control unless prone (increase sway)
7. Increase bolt action times
8. Decrease magazine size
9. Decrease armor magazine capacity
10. Increase reload time
11. Decrease run speed
12. Increase glint angle/size

Some other environmental factors:

1. Change friendly sounds to be different in pitch/tone, to identify enemies easier.
2. Improve sound design with sound placements and volumes being static based on distance, not whether you are being aimed at. (Valorant’s sound system)
3. Increase smoke trail linger time
4. Increase size of “enemy marker” for snipers
5. Make pings last longer on snipers
6. Add windage system that affects sniper rounds

As it stands, sniping is mind-bogglingly easy. There is no challenge to it whatsoever. Going 36-4 or having a 5:1+ kdr is extremely easy and often just involves getting a flank or blowing up some trees, and having mediocre aim.

The solution is to make sniping more difficult, more easily countered or, god forbid, even require skill :gasp:.

Looking forward to the salty snipers complaining below.

[main geyser]

lol

this thread aint gonna last long

[slim kettle]

Going 36-4 or having a 5:1+ kdr is extremely easy and often just involves getting a flank or blowing up some trees, and having mediocre aim.
This is true for every single class in the game.

[uneven folio]

I despise snipers for the most part, but my brother in battlebit you have cooked up one wacked out list.

[main geyser]

they aint even that big of an issue

[worn geode]

"Set zeroing at 0, 500, 1000 meters."

Never cook a suggestion again

[modern quartz]

Not nearly as easy as it is for sniping 😂

[modern quartz]

Too hard?

[worn geode]

Too shitty

[modern quartz]

A 500m drop is like two marks down at most lmao. Not that hard to compensate for.

[tranquil cobalt]

They may get a a better kdr but both the total kill amount and the points they get per minute is absolutely trash if they aren't good enough. Just kdr don't define how well a player is playing

[modern quartz]

That might be true, but it does define the experience that other players are having relative to you

A 20:1 kdr means I’ve taken 20 players back to spawn without them having really any say in the matter because sniping is that easy. That’s not a fun experience for people on the other side.

[tranquil cobalt]

Not really, you can down people but they can be revived easily depending on the situation

[modern quartz]

Sure. Let’s not diverge into that topic too much, medics actually reviving is a whole other can of worms.
That aside, snipers don’t have counters except more snipers, or dmrs.

[tranquil cobalt]

And I'd say it's more a problem with some maps, and not only the sniper class by itself. The last dustydew for example, had too many spots for snipers and almost no cover

[modern quartz]

Think the rest of you just don’t like the truth lmao.
I’ll bet my salary that when they rework snipers, some or most of these nerfs will happen across the board.
Snipers will be closer to the Remington or sv98 than the l96, if not worse.

[round walrus]

Holy crap...
Yes, let's nerf the snipers again, they didn't have enough

[worn geode]

My brother in christ, the problem is not the class, is the horribly designed maps

[tranquil cobalt]

I don't know about 127vs127 because I usually play 64vs64 and below, but on a lot of maps they can easily be taken out with other guns because the range isn't that big, the movement of the game allows people to just zig zag and most snipers will miss all the bullets

[modern quartz]

Kodiak, district are both very new maps and are some of the best for sniping.
I’ll give you that maps could definitely be better. At some point though, you are compensating for a completely broken class that can one shot 95% of players between 50-250m with ease because players have enormous heads and all guns other than snipers or dmrs are intentionally designed to be very challenging to use past 150m. Try equipping a 4x scope if you think I’m wrong. Ask yourself why a 1.5x scope or a 2x scope doesn’t exist for those weapons.

[main geyser]

district? good for sniping? hello??

you cannot see shit on that map

[slim kettle]

So?

[modern quartz]

Absolutely. Stay out of the middle and farm the surrounding objectives.

[slim kettle]

Someone with 36 kills doesnt impact you at all. Youre not even likely to get killed by them once.

[tranquil cobalt]

Yeah both old and new districts aren't that good for snipers, there is a lot of cover

And the old one has the fog

[slim kettle]

Old district is great for sniping

[tranquil cobalt]

Not across the whole map like in sandysunset or dustydew

[modern quartz]

Sure. How about 10 snipers on a team getting 40+ kills.
We can argue all day about what a realistic scenario would be, but the reality is that on average, between 1/3 and 1/4 of any given lobby or team is snipers. Look the next time you play 😂

Snipers are outliers in terms of stats and pick rate, and that’s a problem for game health

[slim kettle]

So on average you die about 3 times a game to snipers?

Doesnt seem like a huge issue to me

[modern quartz]

?

[worn geode]

"no, you see, my head too big, that means I die 100 times to snipers per match :("

[slim kettle]

And I dont know what the actual pickrate for snipers is but having a class that's picked more than other classes isnt inherently bad

[slim kettle]

10 snipers on a team gettings 40 kills each means 400 kills from snipers on that team, 400 / 127 = 3.149

[modern quartz]

Did I say that? Lmao.
I play sniper more than any other class. It’s broken.

[worn geode]

BECAUSE maps are shit

[willow solar]

this is the stupidest shit i ever seen wtf is this

[worn geode]

If maps are too big and a mass of nothingness with tons of elevation it's obvious snipers are gonna be kings

[slim kettle]

@modern quartz Can you explain why you think snipers should be nerfed as they are currently? Is it just that they can easily get high KDs? Or is it something else on top of that?

[modern quartz]

Nice attempt bud.
Like I said, we can argue all day about a realistic scenario.
Also, are we arguing about how many times we die to snipers? Why aren’t we arguing that 1/4-1/3 of each team is doing nothing but sitting in one place picking off people actually playing the game, not contributing to objectives.
That aside
Given what I’ve said, it is actually more like 15-20 snipers per team on a 64 player team, average of 30 kills a piece. 510 kills per team, 1000 per match.
And sure, assuming everyone on the team is evenly killed by snipers, which isn’t the case, that’s still 8 deaths a game to snipers, with no real way of countering them other than playing sniper.
On a 128 player team, more like 30 snipers, 30 kill average (?), 900 per team, 7 deaths per player.

[willow solar]

you die a lot more than 7 times to other classes?

tf is ur point

[main geyser]

numbers b looking scary outside of context but when you take the fact that the game is meatgrinder 24/7 those numbers are tiny

snipers just dont make up 90% of user deaths

[slim kettle]

I dont understand where the idea that snipers have a super high pickrate comes from. Just look at #bb-scoreboard-screenshots , none of the recent posts in that channel show a large number of snipers

Also there is a way to counter long range snipers, you have to avoid their sightlines. Whether that's possible or not with how the maps are made in this game is another issue, but none of your suggestions in this thread have anything to do with that

[tawny mirage]

I'd say zeroing could be a good change. and maybe some encouragement for picking your targets/taking your time, like the increased bolt action time. I suggested before that bullet trails would be a gimmick- you shoot too many shots in a specific amount of time and the barrel overheats and the bullet has a trail

[modern quartz]

1. They have far too much effectiveness at removing players compared to other classes.
2. They have very little counter in the game currently.
3. Sniping is extremely easy with a relatively low skill ceiling. (Raise the floor and raise the ceiling).
4. The ease of use means players opt to play sniper and not contribute to objective play.

[modern quartz]

How many of those are from servers with limited sniper pick rates?

How many of those are from vanilla servers?

Also in the conversation regarding that is sampling bias

[tawny mirage]

Part of the problem with sniping is that the people affected by it the most (people on the objective, running around) are the ones that cant do anything about it. If there's some way for people to deal with snipers beyond ignoring them or fearing them, that'll help.

[modern quartz]

Hey bud, that’s an average. Some players die 0. Some players die 15+.

[modern quartz]

And this is the main issue.

[tranquil cobalt]

Tbh I only agree with the 4th point

[gaunt cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/who-let-bro-cook-who-who-let-bro-cook-dont-let-him-cook-again-gif-13506486571730006439

[modern quartz]

Because this is a thread on making changes to snipers, not the maps or the people being shot by them.

[slim kettle]

If you have an issue with the bias of the sample I pointed to you can simply collect your own data. Lots of those are from official servers with lower skill players in them, which you would expect to have a higher portion of snipers in.

[tawny mirage]

The only things I disagree with here is maybe the glint angle/size, running speed, magazine size and reload speed. I dont know what everyone hates about it

[modern quartz]

I have, and that’s where I’ve gotten the 1/3-1/4 numbers. From my own gameplay over hundreds of hours. It’s anecdotal, but no one has the raw data that oki and team hopefully does.

[tawny mirage]

The counter to anything shouldnt be ignoring them. there should be at least something you can do

plus avoiding sightlines is hard when most of the time, a big portion of the map is one big sightline

[modern quartz]

And I think most don’t understand that each of the suggestions in the main post are simply levers that can be pulled to change sniper balance. Doing every one of those at once would likely render snipers useless and not fun. Implementing some of them to varying degrees is likely what will end up happening anyways.

[tranquil cobalt]

Having some of those changed would probably only encourage snipers from going further away and calling airdrops

[tawny mirage]

maybe the bullets could slow down the further you are away, causing them to be less lethal to the body, but still lethal to the head

or just not have reverse damage falloff to make it easier to dome opponents half a mile away in the leg

[modern quartz]

I didn’t say anything about this because frankly, getting kills 1000+m away is really fucking hard

You basically have to be shooting at another sniper who is shooting at you. In which case, sure. If you land a hit you get the kill.

[slim kettle]

Other than avoiding sight lines what do you think could be a good counter to snipers?

[tawny mirage]

even if its hard, its kind of imbalanced still
Its hard to hit, but its even harder for you to die to someone else who isnt a sniper at that distance.

[slim kettle]

You can still find them and kill them

[tawny mirage]

Im not sure. It'd be better to give tools to help counter them though. maybe the glint machine could be given to other classes, or even a portable shiney object that gives a massive amount of glint to shield you a bit

instead of just running, you do something

[tawny mirage]

Not easy when you have to get through 126 other people, including other snipers, and then pray that they're not in the safe zone

[modern quartz]

Something else I think you guys don’t realize is that having big open maps is a part of the non-arcade squad shooter that oki and team wanted to make. Squad, Arma, etc.
If they make the maps smaller and tighter, they just go the way of battlefield and arcade-style shooters, and certainly away from the open map squad and vehicle gameplay of arma, squad, etc.

[tawny mirage]

a lot of effort for you to kill them vs them to kill you

[modern quartz]

Reducing weapon recoil on 2x, 4x weapon sights for automatic weapons would probably help. Decreasing damage falloff/increasing damage at range.

[tawny mirage]

Kind of reminds me of this argument for the wrangler in tf2 (9:43)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toxY8lHfs30&t=912s
Imbalance of effort, while you have to flank, avoid other players, get to the sniper and then kill them, they have to shoot a bullet
"You have to succeed every block. I only need to succeed once"

[modern quartz]

But then you run into the problem of “everyone being snipers”. Getting picked off from people you can’t see or didn’t know were there.

The fundamental issue is this:
you have a lot of players in one match
Those players need space to engage one another without being third partied too frequently
This means bigger maps
This means longer sight lines can and do happen.
This means effective ranges need to be shorter, to prevent players reaching out and touching other players who don’t know they are there, as that is not fun.

Then, with all of these things, we have snipers who:
Have extreme ranges
Have extremely large targets
Have one hit kill potential
Have extremely fine zeroing capabilities

The issue is snipers. They need to be brought in line to bring the amount of deaths that you could not anticipate, counter or in some cases prevent down.

[tawny mirage]

It'd be a good change. having a 4x zoom is going to make you longer ranged, but its also going to reduce close-quarters effectiveness (EXCEPT for canted optics), and even though you would be better at range due to the zoom, if you wanted to be long range, a sniper would still be better.
It'd be great to reduce recoil on 4x zoom, but still have it there. 1x is 1x recoil, 4x is 1.5x or 2x.

[modern quartz]

Before battlebit, I never realized that most games do reduce recoil on magnified scopes to make them useable.

[wooden bronze]

My brother, you burnt the water.

If your aim is to decrease the amount of snipers by making them quit the game outright, this list might just do that

[modern quartz]

#1197660913847779348 message

[wooden bronze]

Even just one or two could do it. The thing isn’t that sniper is too strong. As Chum said, anyone can go 5:1 if they know how to play well. I may not be that Person myself but as someone who mostly plays medic and some recon here and there, it’s really not too powerful.

The abundance comes from one very basic reason

Everyone wants to be this guy.

Being a sniper is cool, it has nothing to do with it being strong, people just like being a badass

And sadly you can’t take the coolness out of being a sniper

Meta Slaves aside, people play SMG medic / assault because it makes you feel like John fucking wick

Others play support because it makes them feel like they got the Juggernaut Killstreak in COD (however much copium that may be because support bad)

Others play engi because they scream “DEMOMAN TF2” as they chuck RPGs and C4s at players.

[tawny mirage]

I disagree. Sniper is strong for a reason I've already mentioned- there's no counter except another sniper.
If you're the smg medic, what are you going to do about a sniper? Ignore them? that's not countering, that's hoping you wont have to interact with them. If you have to go across a field to go to the next objective, what do you do?
If you're assault, what are you going to do? You have a riot shield, but that's underpowered right now. you have assault rifles, but they aren't meant to be as long of a range as sniper rifles
Engineer has the heat rpg, range of 500 meters. that's a different problem.
Support bad Support has lmgs, meant to be closer range killing machines. not sniper range.
Of course Im ignoring an elephant in the room, DMRs, which engineer and assault have access to. DMRs have similar problems to snipers. Considerably long range, not many counters besides another dmr/sniper. HOWEVER, dmrs are used at much closer ranges than snipers, and you can usually reasonably pepper them at range, or flank them, due to them not being behind the ENTIRE enemy team.
My point is that there should be more counters to snipers than other snipers. The counter doesn't need to be killing them, it could be making them less effective.
To give an example, there could be a badge that you could put in a gadget slot/base kit. If you hold it, any snipers looking at you from the front have massive glint over you, making it harder to predict your movements. there could be an item (like the glint machine) that temporarily blinds a sniper if they look too close to it, allowing you to get through open spaces or get to other sources of cover/concealment.
Of course, these aren't too good of suggestions, they're more of a starting place or an example

[slender shore]

they need to rework dmg fall off for other guns so you can actually threat sniper with more than 8dmg per bullet or add suppression when you are in a sniper scope

[wooden bronze]

As a medic, I deal with plenty snipers. Im not gonna say “omg skill issue” but as a mediocre player, I very rarely consider the snipers too oppressive because I just… Deal with them in whichever way is appropriate. Sometimes I flank and take them and their buddies out, sometimes I shoot back from right where I am, other times I just watch my angles and go a different way.

A good sniper SHOULD be oppressive and shouldn’t just be a non-factor to the enemy team

Making them weaker won’t fix it, they’ll adapt and we’re right back here. Limiting how many snipers can be on a team, however, can. As much as I don’t enjoy limiting player expression through limitations, I much less enjoy nerfing something so much, people actively dislike their time playing it

[tawny mirage]

Flanking is the only real counter here that you mentioned, and still has its flaws. shooting back at them is a great way to get headshot if theyre at least 200 meters away. Watching the angles and going the other way isnt really dealing with them. they exist and you need to account for it by changing the way you play completely.
Of course the sniper shouldnt just be nothing, but there should be more interaction between a sniper and their target/team. a sniper's interaction is shooting at the player, and the target's interaction is hoping they miss, which is an imbalance of effort.
"You have to succeed every block. I only need to succeed once"

[slender shore]

i absolutely do not want a forced sniper limit. Playing with one was the worst experience in bbr i had in a while

even worse than having 50+ sniper shooting at you

[wooden bronze]

Having less snipers is worse than more?

[tawny mirage]

The flaws with flanking is that to get to 1 sniper, you need to hope you dont get caught by 126, 63, or 31 other players, including other snipers that are holding the angles that they aren't.

[slender shore]

having a limit is worse than more

there is a difference

[wooden bronze]

Well there won’t really be a way to discourage snipers from playing sniper

The OG post is about reducing their numbers

Nerfing them too much makes the players quit outright

We can’t artificially decrease their numbers

[tawny mirage]

I'd say a way to discourage snipers could be giving non-snipers more power over snipers.
Not by shooting them, but by making it harder for them.

[wooden bronze]

Something that will very quickly be adapted to

The line between “we’ll adapt” and “we’ll quit” is very thin.

It’s a line I’d rather not test in the first place

[tawny mirage]

It doesnt seem very good that the line is that thin.
If you put it like that, it sounds like they will either keep playing if sniper is still busted, or quit once they start having a little trouble

[wooden bronze]

This is where our views on Snipers split because I genuinely am not bothered by them in the slightest

I die to a sniper, half the time it was my fault

[main geyser]

9/10 snipers are bots, only 1 out of 10 recons are real players 🧠

[wooden bronze]

The other half is them being good and Im just as unbothered

A single smg movement goblin grind my gears more than any amount of snipers ever could

[tawny mirage]

I'd rather fight an smg movement goblin, because I can at least begin to fight them. I can shoot at them, I can damage them. I cant do that to a sniper.

[wooden bronze]

Not with a 0.2 TTK with peeker’s advantage

A sniper I can at least react to most of the time (I am paranoid and always look around)

The movement goblin just kind of appears and deletes me

[tawny mirage]

I may be biased with that, because Ive met far more snipers than movement goblins

[wooden bronze]

Opposite with me

I rarely get bothered by a sniper at all

At the end of the day though, I still want sniper players to have fun playing. A lot of them are already not doing that

[tawny mirage]

I get bothered sometimes, not always killed, but Im arguing because I know that they're flawed and need balancing

[wooden bronze]

If you find a way to do so without making their main advantage neglible, sure

But that’s the thing, not being able to be properly engaged by anyone other than a sniper or a god gamer IS their advantage

[tawny mirage]

it's also the main flaw

[wooden bronze]

Yeah but if we take that, then we might as well delete recon

Because then they’re just man with gun

[tawny mirage]

(and also its beating a dead horse, but map design is also at fault)
Other games like cs and r6 have balanced snipers because theyre still in a range where your weapons can do something
When you're in a map this big, sightline size needs to be thought of, and that's the issue with many maps.

[slender shore]

you can't just rate a sniper by how often you die to them. If one sniper can change how the enemy team has to move around a certain point it's already huge value. no smg movement goblin can do that

[wooden bronze]

Those are games centred around CQC, their snipers are built around it. It’s not a fair comparison, they’re wildly different concepts

[wooden bronze]

Both can lock down an objective fairly well. Gotta look out for both

Though then again, most objectives are built in a way that a sniper can’t really do much directly on it, rather around it

[slender shore]

it's not the same and one needs way more skill to do it

beside everyone in your team can shoot the goblin only 1/4 can shoot the aniper

and a goblin can't sit in the redzone

[wooden bronze]

And the sniper only really has access to a specific sight line to the point. The goblin can move all around it and clear the buildings within

They’re both good for their respective reasons

The only objective I can think of that is dominated by snipers is [map name unknown] C, with the radio tower

Because it’s literally just the radio tower on top of a hill

[slender shore]

there are tons of spots on maps you can dominate as a sniper

[tropic quarry]

bro if you hate snipers just say so lol, your suggestions are simply to gut snipers and make them the worse weapons in the game, most actual sniping issue are caused by map design rather than weapon balancing

[tawny mirage]

Assault, medic, engineer, and support can fight each other, but cant fight snipers. Sniper can fight all of them and other snipers.

[wooden bronze]

Which is their whole advantage
It’s why they exist, but the advantage comes with a required level of skill to actually perform well, as well as increasing difficulty the safer you are (farther away)

Close snipers do better, have an easier time but run the risk of being deleted

Farther snipers are safe, can’t really get countered easily but have proportionally higher difficulty to do well

Meanwhile your non-recon 1v1 takes about as long as it takes for a sniper to line up their shot

[tawny mirage]

The safety vs kill difficulty is skewed. at a certain point its almost impossible to kill the sniper while its still extremely possible to kill their target.
at 500 meters away, say they hit every 1 in 7 shots. Their target will hit 0 in 60 shots they shoot at the sniper, and while theyre doing that, the sniper will need even less shots to kill them, due to them not moving as much.

[wraith patrol]

this is going to make tanks and rpgs better snipers xd

[wooden bronze]

They already are…

[tawny mirage]

"Just shoot at the sniper you can annoy them" doesnt work when theyre at the distance that once you hit your first shot, the bullet is already in your skull

[tawny mirage]

Rpgs and tanks also need nerfs, not just snipers.

[wooden bronze]

It has worked for me plenty times, though that’s skill based since I have pretty quick aim acquisition

[wraith patrol]

tanks shouldnt have zoom period

[tawny mirage]

which is a separate issue for another thread

[wooden bronze]

Most recons will hide after taking a single bullet, even if just 5HP, because they want to be Full HP to take a sniper body shot

[tawny mirage]

How far away were the snipers? I doubt it was at least 300 meters away, which is a big problem distance.
(also what gun were you using? just a little curious)

[wooden bronze]

Ever since my beloved Badger was taken from medic I’ve been running the M4A1

Couldn’t tell you the range, buuut definitely past 200m

[tawny mirage]

do most snipers do this? I didn't look specifically to see if a sniper does this, but this just sounds insane for them

[wooden bronze]

I do it at least, and most of the time it happens with every other sniper I see

[wraith patrol]

i would think they would just try to stay above 70hp

[wooden bronze]

Death

[tawny mirage]

ig that could track, m4 has solid recoil and damage, but it seems like at that point you may just be better than the sniper, or theyre focused on other people and you delete them quickly

[wooden bronze]

I just swap to semi so recoil doesn’t really matter

[wraith patrol]

aim punch exists yk

[tawny mirage]

do you run a recoil muzzle, or a suppressor?

[wooden bronze]

Suppressor because mmmmh long barrel

But again, semi auto

[tawny mirage]

I run a suppressor on all of my guns. I just like them.

[modern quartz]

no, they cant though. the 1% can go 5:1. 30% of snipers can go 5:1/

[modern quartz]

i disagree

[wooden bronze]

We all do and that’s okay uwu

Im tired tho

[modern quartz]

see this: #1197660913847779348 message

[wooden bronze]

It’s like 1AM

@tawny mirage good talk

[modern quartz]

Honestly, L.

[tawny mirage]

You too

[wraith patrol]

tbh if you die to snipers a lot just dont go out in the open or if you do dont stand still or even better run in a zig zag

[slim kettle]

You keep bringing up kd as if it matters. I dont see why snipers being able to get a high kd at a low kill count effects you at all.

[modern quartz]

dude

read the fucking post

i was replying to him

[modern quartz]

and it affects players because dying to people you cannot see nor have any chance of countering is ass

[slim kettle]

I know what you were replying to.

[modern quartz]

snipers live on third partying players

that is shit and feels like shit to die to when you do

and they can do so with virtually no risk

[wraith patrol]

tanks shooting from safezone with 6x zoom no glint or no trial or anything

mainly on oce tho

[slim kettle]

That is a map issue, not a gun balance issue. If someone getting 40 kills feels that oppressive the issue isnt that the gun is too powerful.

[modern quartz]

no, it isn't. its an issue of conflicting game design

[modern quartz]

this thread isnt about tanks

[wraith patrol]

its about snipers

and tanks probably are better snipers rn

[modern quartz]

Oki and team don't want to bring in shotguns. The irony is that snipers are more of a problem than shotguns are

[wraith patrol]

irony is you standing out in the open still to let someone 1000 meters way hit you?

[modern quartz]

?

are you even reading this thread

fuck off with your strawman arguments

[wraith patrol]

na im just existing

snipers have never been a problem to me

[slender shore]

[wraith patrol]

just zig zag or dont go out in the open

[modern quartz]

cool

[slender shore]

oh so you say praying that they dont hit you is a valid tactic?

[wraith patrol]

would be very unlikely unless they can predict well

[slender shore]

or being forced away by a sniper and then staying in your area that you are forced into is a counter to them

[wraith patrol]

did i not say zig zagging is very effective?

[slim kettle]

Thats kinda the point of snipers. Is there a solution to this other than just removing them as a whole?

[real gate]

SMOKE BOMBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wraith patrol]

i forgot about them

[real gate]

Be medic
Smoke grenade launcher
Run around spamming it
???
Get 37 kills 0 deaths

[wraith patrol]

also dont snipers usualy just end up fighting each other

got glint to easily spot them

[slender shore]

you said zig zag or dont go into the open. one is praying to not get hit and the other one helps the snipers team

[real gate]

Also everyone seems to forgor you can just quick build barricades wherever and the sniper is incapable of stopping you

Seriously it's like everyone has amnesia or something

[slender shore]

yes its totally what they are supposed to do but the issue is that they can do it almost everywhere on almost all maps and its fucking easy to do

[real gate]

They can't do it if you build a wall and erradicate their sightlines

[slim kettle]

Again its a map issue

[slender shore]

you cant build that many walls that would be needed for that. Besides if one (1) player can change your way of playing that much for just existing he isnt balanced

[slender shore]

exactly

but vil doesnt see it that way it seems

[real gate]

Just put down a wall when you see a sniper

[wraith patrol]

imagine is smg sweats realllly played the objectives 0.0

[real gate]

Barricades build instantly as far as I know and they only cost like 10 points when your squad usually has around 10k

Or just keep using smokes

Medic can hold like 9 smokes in a grenade launcher and you get 3 more if you take the nades

[slender shore]

and another one to your side since there is another one? and then move 4m and build another 2? how many do you want to build to reach the next cover 50m away from the last building? place 20 walls on your way?

[real gate]

Are you constantly being surrounded by snipers in an open field?

Sounds like you need some more awareness.

[slender shore]

if maps were made with snipers in mind you wouldnt need all those sniper balance posts and wouldnt have 50 snipers in each team

[slender shore]

...

[real gate]

Tbh the teams with 50 snipers lose most of the time because nobody fights for the objective

[tawny mirage]

Theres not usually a sniper on your side, but this is still a good point. you aren't gonna be holed up in one place forever, what do you do after you need to move?

[real gate]

Smoke grenades

[slender shore]

there are a lot of situations where you have 2 sniper with different angles looking at you

not always 90°

[real gate]

I don't get into many of those situations but the barricade is usually large enough to protect from a good area

Also smoke bombs still exist

They don't even have to be on you

If smoke is between you and the sniper the sniper can't see you

[slender shore]

sure smokes exist and work but only till you run out

[real gate]

With a smoke launcher you can pack about 9 of them and they each last 15 seconds

[tropic quarry]

tbh you shouldnt be taking a fight thats 500m long unless youre rocking a dmr or sniper and if youre in the line of sight of someone 500m away your positioning sucks

[real gate]

Plus they can be refilled

[slender shore]

smoke launcher is limited to medic isnt it?

[real gate]

I have no idea since I only play medic

I thought all classes had it

[slender shore]

dont think so

every class should have smokes but not the launcher

[real gate]

Assault has it according to the wiki

[slender shore]

he does?

[slender shore]

oh

[fathom tangle]

Wind could be a good solution to throw some random chance into sniping. Wind could be extra fast along cliff sides. Little handheld anemometer item for getting wind speed. It flows through valleys and such and various speeds, so snipers can learn wind direction at certain areas, but need to walk there to get windspeed. And high above terrain, wind is more steady/predictable. Giving elevated snipers the advantage.

[real gate]

If wind is gonna be an issue there should be some attachment to tell windspeeds and direction like the rangefinder

[slender shore]

wind seems to be quite random

[real gate]

I wouldn't like a random chance for my shot to miss for seemingly no reason

[tawny mirage]

Not really. there's high ground on a lot of maps that can see very far away.
Also, one of the problems is that the sniper interaction is one-sided. the sniper is attacking, and the defense can do nothing but hope they dont hit them. I dont take fights at 500 meters because its a death sentence.
again, again, again, "You have to succeed every block. I only need to succeed once"

[slender shore]

wind looks like an even greater nerf than what was suggested here

[tawny mirage]

shouldnt be an attachment or gadget, should be basekit

[real gate]

How would that work?

[tawny mirage]

Im sorry actually, attachment might work. range finder vs wind finder

[tawny mirage]

maybe a 6th slot only available to sniper? like how the medic box is the only one available in its slot (although it takes up a slot already used on other classes for other things)

[real gate]

Well wind could work

It would obviously throw your shot offcourse the longer it's in the air so a shorter shot doesn't need to account for wind that much while a 1000m shoot would be thrown entirely offcourse by it

[tawny mirage]

But i'd still like something that causes the sniper's target to be able to interact more with the sniper

[real gate]

Or maybe they could just use harder bullet drop, less ammo in mags, and less total mags for sniper

[tawny mirage]

Now that you say it, it should probably only be a small amount of wind, and def should be basekit.
you use a range finder to find the distance, and take the velocity and do maths with the amount of wind (simplify it for quick maths) and then account for that in your shot

[real gate]

Suddenly sniping becomes golf and you need to account for windspeed, angles, and range

The gentlemen's game: sniping

[tawny mirage]

even then, there should be some interaction between snipers and other classes. assault vs medic vs engineer vs support, and then there's sniper in the distance shooting potshots, hitting shots, and doing their own thing detached from the other classes

[tawny mirage]

at least it'd raise the skill floor and ceiling, although itd probably need to be refined

[real gate]

Sniper counterplay would still be somewhat exclusive to snipers though sadly

Although with snipers being closer you could rush them and potentially get a kill

[wraith patrol]

could make accuracy lower past 200 meters or something if you want to nerf long range snipers and not snipers that play the objective?

[tawny mirage]

Killing could be exclusive, but there could still be some gadgets/basekit tools to help with deterring them

[tawny mirage]

.

[real gate]

That's basically the wind thing we talked about earlier

[real gate]

Here

Wind would affect the trajectory of your bullets more if you're further away because it would have a longer time in the air

[wraith patrol]

ah

[tawny mirage]

plus that's turning it into rng, which I dont think is good in something supposed to be skill based

[modern quartz]

until you have to leave that spot lmfao

[wraith patrol]

well you can make it harder for long range snipers but i dont think that what the owner of this post wants

he will not stand for someone 800+ meters away getting a kill

[real gate]

Wind would probably have a consistent formula in the code which you'd be able to account for with a wind finder or some sort of range finder variant

[tawny mirage]

the further away snipers go, the easier it gets to them (obviously to a certain point)
at 300 meters, shots dont need to be lead as much, but you can occasionally get beamed by a really good player, or picked off by a dmr or semi-auto ar.
Flanking is difficult because you need to get through the front line to get to the back.
at 500 meters, only other dmrs or snipers can hurt you. Flanking is out of the question at this distance, due to the distance and amount of people that will be able to find you. (To get to the sniper, you need to get past around 126 other people)
at 1000 meters, almost nothing can touch you. its harder to hit a shot, but its impossibly hard for you to die to anyone who isnt another skilled sniper

[tawny mirage]

It could be randomized for each match, but consistant throughout it, maybe changing every 5-7 minutes or so

[real gate]

I'd imagine wind just being like it is in real life

There would just be a formula for how wind affects your shot and you would have to correct your shot based on this

[tawny mirage]

make sure to account for air resistance when you're running towards the objective

[real gate]

Like how bullet drop works except it may blow your shot left or right

[tawny mirage]

yeah

[wraith patrol]

me pulling up the weather app on my phone in game to take a sniper shot

[real gate]

Just play golf

Play enough golf and you'll get so good at calculating how far offcourse the wind will blow your shot and you'll be a god tier sniper

[wraith patrol]

i do like the idea since it doesnt nerf snipers that play the objective but it is a low poly game not sure how some people might receve it

[tawny mirage]

there could be a 6th slot for sniper where you turn on your phone and check the wind speed. a wind speed of 10 right would push your bullet 10 units to the right for every second they're in the air

[real gate]

We have fully accurate mags

You've got to combine mags, check how much ammo is in them, make sure you don't just drop too many mags because those can't be refilled at resupplies, etc.

[wraith patrol]

got a point there i guess

[tawny mirage]

personally mag management is annoying to me. I always hoard them

[real gate]

I use quick reload mags and reload literally every second I'm not fighting

I'll make a suggestion on the wind thing here

Nevermind it's already been made

[tawny mirage]

get ready to defend against the "sniper is perfectly balanced with no exploits 🍵 " group

[main geyser]

Sniper is perfectly with no 👍

[real gate]

I suppose our idea is different though because it doesn't say "remove sniper bullet trail when using a suppressor"?

[tawny mirage]

my fine adversary, I respectfully disagree hmmm
It would be absolutely delightful if sniper was balanced but, alas, they arent. it is very unfortunate

[wraith patrol]

when i used to play close to objectives whenever i choose recon and hide in bushes now that does not work at all and im better off using a surpressed m4

that would be amazing

[tawny mirage]

I wish we could put movie (/john wick) suppressors on our guns, but I know it would be broken
maybe a primary pistol could have one

[wraith patrol]

imagine uniforms that just make it prop hunt

[tawny mirage]

Ghillie suit+movie suppressors

[wraith patrol]

good luck finding me im litraly grass

[gritty prawn]

Incredible, you managed to make a list of suggestions with zero good ideas

[tawny mirage]

Like 'nam all over again
I am the lorax, and the trees speak for themselves

[main geyser]

I’m genuinely surprised thread isn’t gone yet

[modern quartz]

when have I ever said that? stop spouting actual bullshit.

[modern quartz]

incredible, another salty sniper

[wraith patrol]

are you sure you are not the salty one?

[modern quartz]

go troll another suggestion

[wraith patrol]

i mean you do want to nerf the weapons that can do that into the ground (even more)

[wraith patrol]

make a better suggestion

[modern quartz]

(even more) he says lmfao

[main geyser]

when was basil a sniper

[wraith patrol]

he just essumes everyone who doesnt despise snipers is a sniper

[modern quartz]

idk, apparently we are just spouting bullshit so I thought i'd join in

[main geyser]

I love snipers cuz they’re easy kills

Easy to kill

Recons

[wraith patrol]

ikr

[main geyser]

I don’t snipe tho

[real gate]

Nah you're salty. The original suggestions would nerf snipers into the ground and make them entirely unusable

[modern quartz]

apparently no one can read either

[real gate]

I read the suggestions

They were kinda bad

Just a straight nerf to snipers

Windage is probably the only one that could potentially work

[modern quartz]

#1197660913847779348 message

[modern quartz]

yup

[real gate]

Mostly because it isn't a straight nerf

Just an added factor to consider when sniping that would increase the skill floor and ceiling

[modern quartz]

also, still relevant: #1197660913847779348 message

[real gate]

Skilled players could still do their 500m headshots but only by calculating wind speeds and trajectory

[gritty prawn]

I’m making an entire video about how the sniper changes are fine and people whining about them are dumb

I am not a sniper main lmao

[main geyser]

yippee!!!

[tawny mirage]

I'd prefer something other than a trail. if I want to be closer and stealthily snipe people, I now need to use a dmr

then also the sound spread

[modern quartz]

Who

[main geyser]

asked for sniper nerfs: idk

[modern quartz]

Haven’t heard any good counter arguments yet lmao

[tender moat]

Making snipers absolute shit does cure the sniper epidemic, but thats like cutting off your entire leg because one of your toes got frostbite

There is probably a way to deal with the sniper camping problem without effectively removing the sniper class

[jade kestrel]

oki adding snipers only to nerf them into the ground

[jade kestrel]

give sniper scopes like 1 degree FOV when zoomed in

ez

[tender moat]

thats like a 90x scope 💀

[jade kestrel]

remove every debuff and just give them the shitty FOV scope

[tender moat]

the scope glint would be as bright as the sun

[jade kestrel]

dont even need bullets, the real weapon is burning the enemies by aiming at them

[main geyser]

make sniper like in the finals🔥🔥upgrade to ue5 and remake the game from scratch with a whole new concept

[tender moat]

People here don't like the concept of snipers oneshotting at close range

[real gate]

Snipers should be able to oneshot at close range

If they didn't people would play the objective even less with them

[jade kestrel]

honestly

remove snipers

make recon a fast moving class

[real gate]

I'd say no don't remove snipers but they did that to shotguns sooooooo

[jade kestrel]

give recon like 2 drones for backup reconnaisance

[real gate]

Why not just snap snipers out of existance?

[jade kestrel]

and give recon a periscope to spot from cover

recon class not sniper class

[main geyser]

🤑🤑

[real gate]

Thing is we already have fast class

Meet the Medic

Never heals anyone but themself because why would they?
Uses only light and ranger armor for the zoomies
Uses only the vector because

[main geyser]

Yup

[tropic quarry]

you spitting facts here

[tender moat]

I have made the same argument but people are saying that it would be the equivalent of a shotgun

[worn geode]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1013791147010822266/1051362853564710972/goodbye.gif

[cedar frigate]

but shotguns d o n t need to one shot

im all for shotguns

and i think sniper limits are a good way of balancing, it may be restrictive on play styles but i think its a good temporary balance

[worn geode]

I've read everything again and some of the answers and with that, mine stays the same, point 3 is too shitty, from 4 onwards they are just so... so... No thanks. 1 and 2 are the only good ones

"Some other environmental factors:
Change friendly sounds to be different in pitch/tone, to identify enemies easier."
This is also good

I don't know what are you talking about in point 2 so no comments on that, the rest are the same as the nerf to the class, no thanks, it hits as hard a train and will kill the entire class, like:
"Increase size of “enemy marker” for snipers
Make pings last longer on snipers"

Do you want people to stop playing recon entirely?

I'm more of a support and medic main before you say something about "salty sniper"

This is just too much and will kill the entire class

[red merlin]

My man over here wants the entire class gone with all these nerfs he suggested

Thats absolutely overkill

[modern quartz]

2 doesn’t matter if you don’t do 3. Zeroing makes drop a non-issue.

[modern quartz]

Do I want people to stop playing sniper entirely? No. But I do want the class to take some amount of effort to be able to kill as effortlessly as it does. Currently, it’s far to easy to make a large negative impact on the enemy team while also not contributing to objective play for your team.

[red merlin]

Like other than revamping stats for each individual sniper, i really dont see any particular way to balance out the class thats already messed up by sniper trails anyways

[modern quartz]

Sniper trail makes basically no difference in my experience. People are completely blind to snipers somehow. But people here love to bitch and moan about them.

[worn geode]

I don't get how people don't see the glints and trails

The amount of times I get saved thanks to seeing the trail

[red merlin]

Maybe if the whole more dmg the longer the bullet goes thing is just replaced with snipers dealing the same amount of dmg at any distance

[red merlin]

Actual skill issue if you cant see both glint and trail

[modern quartz]

That only occurs over 1000m, and is completely outside the realm of 99% of sniper kills in this game

[modern quartz]

I play as sniper

[red merlin]

Skill issue

Idk what else to tell ya

[modern quartz]

How is it a skill issue when it has nothing to do with me. Go troll a different suggestion.

[red merlin]

If people cant see it its a skill issue

I cant say anything else its just that

[main geyser]

if you can’t see
you

[modern quartz]

God I can’t put into words how stupid of a game design take that is.

[modern quartz]

Oh welcome back

[main geyser]

thanks

thread still pointless tho

I don’t see much from here happening

[modern quartz]

You are in for a bad time when they redo the snipers 😂

[main geyser]

Not really

[worn geode]

Oki hates snipers with a passion, so he's going to take something from here

[modern quartz]

Okay bud

[main geyser]

I fly little bird I die more to my own mistakes than them

Snipers are easy prey

[modern quartz]

Oh so you have no idea about anything in this thread. Cool

[main geyser]

[modern quartz]

Anywho, going back to sleep. Have fun with this pointless thread

[main geyser]

Ofc i don’t 100% use it all the time

[red merlin]

Honestly ive never seen a sniper main here that actively want more sniper nerfs

[main geyser]

Now you did

[main geyser]

ok

[worn geode]

"Have fun with this pointless thread"

You're the one who started it 😭

[red merlin]

Truly the schizo has taken over some people here

[worn geode]

This is what no update for a year does to a man

[red merlin]

What trails to do a recon main

[tranquil cobalt]

I don't think that would be a good idea, tho I'd like the short sights back on snipers

[worn geode]

I still think glint + sniper trail are enough of a nerf already

[main geyser]

I love how I mention I’m a bird player and all of a sudden all my opinions go out the window but chances are I’m better than 70-80% of battlebit players at infantry

[worn geode]

Bullet trail makes you a target to other snipers especially if you fired in the direction of one and missed your shot

You hitted your target? Get rewarded with a kill
You missed your target? Good luck

[red merlin]

Exactly

[worn geode]

It also works to scare infantry away

Makes them look for cover

[main geyser]

Don’t nerf snipers nerf Dmrs

imo

[worn geode]

I don't know if I like the idea of nerfing them when they are finally in a good spot

[main geyser]

Dmrs?

[worn geode]

Maybe just add the same changes to glint and bullet trail

[red merlin]

Id be fine with glint ngl

[worn geode]

Yeh

[red merlin]

As for trails, maybe just make not last as long as sniper ones

[cedar frigate]

how to get rid of snipers, shotguns

i solved it!!!!!1111!!!!

[worn geode]

I agree

[main geyser]

Logic

[worn geode]

Dev's bias against shotguns don't make any sense

Snipers don't one shot unless the enemy is already touched

If they are at 100% hp full armor they survive the first shot

Make shotguns do the same, problem solved

Unironically

[red merlin]

Literally reverse sniper and you get shotguns

[worn geode]

Slug shell my beloved

[red merlin]

I feel like people got pstd from bf and especially newer cods and think shotguns have to be implemented that way

[main geyser]

I should do a challenge and see how many kills I can get with every class without dying (3 lives/class, average kills at the end)

[worn geode]

Probably

[main geyser]

No vehicles tho

[worn geode]

I'm curious, why do you want to do that

[main geyser]

Idk

[worn geode]

Ah, out of boredom

I feel you

[main geyser]

I got plenty to do

[red merlin]

Ok i looked at some of the stuff somewhere from the begining of this thread and I wanted to say this:
You can absolutely counter snipers with mindblowing invention called a smoke grenade

[cedar frigate]

but frag grenade

and shotguns

[red merlin]

True

But

You also have a smoke launcher, rpg as engie and insta build and exo for support(yes exo is slow as shit but at least it tanks sniper shots)

Not to mention that most snipers piss off the moment they get hit with a dmr

Or anything for that matter

Also you can zig zag a bit

That also does wonders to counter them

The tools and tech is right there and people just dont use it if they find snipers to be that annoying to them

[fathom tangle]

Just realized that wind could also be used as a way for oki to nerf low velocity rounds being used at distance, like sniper’s using low velocity for long distance. Another sort of “spread” factor that’s not as predictable as gravity and unpredictable as the gun’s default bullet spread.

[gritty prawn]

thaaaaaaaaaat would suck

the way low-velocity rounds are nerfed at a distance is damage dropoff

[floral anchor]

ehh, not really. unless you are sniping with a pistol most guns have a decent muzzle velocity for engagements up to 300. Smgs 100-150 (not including damage)

you wouldn't notice unless you are trying to snipe with pistols and/or smgs. maybe PDWs.

[modern quartz]

Limiting non-sniper’s ability to respond to snipers in any ways is a step in the wrong direction.

[floral anchor]

most of the problem snipers are within 300 meters.

the guys further than that are annoying for their team, not thier enemy.

that said, it would kinda ruin the funny of sniping with the heavy pistols

[real gate]

After 15 hours of medic gameplay (sitting behind a barrier reviving people who got killed by snipers) and then switching to sniper to become the very thing I swore to destroy, I can confirm, I am a great asset for the enemy team

Can we make every map a blank baseplate please? There are too many walls in the way of my bullet and their head

[exotic bridge]

This change will push snipers even further back, I would like to see incentives for playing sniper as a more aggro class rather than sitting in spawn

[worn geode]

This is so true, lmao

[jagged jewel]

smokes said hi

[short bridge]

All of these suggestions gives me the indication you have never played sniper and have never played Battlebit before it was released on steam. You suggest making it harder and trying to "fix" sniping, but all of your examples throughout the thread all refer to map sizes like 127v127 and 64v64. Maps that allow for conquest or bigger team based modes are going to allow snipers to shoot at long distances. You clearly don't play 32v32 which would suggest you have a biased opinion on sniping in general. IF you want to make snipers harder to play then reduce the map size and see how many people actually pick sniper. You cannot complain on how "easy" it is to snipe when obviously you have to push past 30 other enemy players just to kill that one lousy sniper.

If anyone played Battle Bit before Steam all these updates are doing is just pushing more and more players towards DMR's which was the meta waaaay back in the day and was a huge problem with for the Dev team. DMR's have 0 glint and no trails when being fired. You want to make snipers "fair" make all scopes on snipers have glint and you fix the issue of not being able to see the sniper.

[red merlin]

Its pretty clear he isnt a sniper when he says new district is a good sniping map

[wooden bronze]

me when sniping on new district

[red merlin]

Damn that got me

[short bridge]

Bring back Old District

[quasi acorn]

Bro went way to hard on these nerfs. The only thing I can agree with in this entire suggestion is the lowered bullet velo, but everything else is just unnecessary. If you're going to nerf the velocities, which is a hefty nerf, you need to buff some other aspects to counteract that nerf, but here you just kept nerfing it which is extremely bad.

[short bridge]

I don't even think you need lowered bullet velocity, everyone keeps talking about nerfing snipers, but if we removed headshot kills from the entire equation everyone would see how bad snipers actually are. There is plenty of ways you can go about adjusting snipers if you want to make things a bit different but in no shape or form are they op. 90% of the attachments on the snipers don't have any purpose but that is the case for most weapons.

[slender shore]

oh hell no

[short bridge]

It was my favorite map, and is better designed than the new one, but that's IMO

[quasi acorn]

Old District was better imo

[short bridge]

THE other major thing people don't even realize is with Sniper Trails in the game there is absolutely no point in climbing any of the major structures that give great height advantage now because of the update. You spend forever trying to climb up there but as soon as you fire one shot everyone sees where you are shooting from.

[short bridge]

At least in the old District you didn't spend 10 mins running to the objective, now you gotta swim and run across the marsh.

[quasi acorn]

yep

[tawny mirage]

maybe it can have falloff to eventually not one shot head past maybe 400 meters, but then at 800 meters it ramps back up, and at 1000 meters it has the current reverse damage falloff

[quasi acorn]

wouldn't make much sense to do that tbh

[slender shore]

old district was the worst map by far. But that's off topic

[tawny mirage]

discouraging being extremely far away, but rewarding miracle shots

[short bridge]

It already takes 3 shots to kill a heavy in the chest though.....

[slender shore]

maps just need less unblocked sightlines

[short bridge]

I've been saying that for awhile, too many maps are just poorly designed and need to have less sightlines.

[tawny mirage]

armor probs gonna get reworked anyways, plus there's a high chance they dont have armor after taking 2 stray shots

[quasi acorn]

I already hate having to 3 shot body a support, or 2 shot head, I would legit stop playing sniper if I needed more shots to kill

[tawny mirage]

wakistan is pretty bad tbh

[quasi acorn]

that's an assumption tho

[short bridge]

But again

[tawny mirage]

kind of, but its more likely to happen than not
*oh you meant the 2nd part

[short bridge]

3 Shots from a sniper to the chest, but a DMR can 2 hit kill.

[quasi acorn]

kinda both, but yea the second part mainly

[quasi acorn]

that's still crazy to me honestly

[slender shore]

in wht scenario?

[short bridge]

Trust me there are plenty of great examples of maps that need heavy reworks. SOOO many people complain about snipers being OP but I find it funny I'm the only one sniping on Namak.

[tawny mirage]

I know how to fix it, Ive been enlightened
Only night maps

[quasi acorn]

FLIR

[tawny mirage]

nobody uses the flir

[short bridge]

The thermal scope sucks

[tawny mirage]

exactly

no more sniper problem if no more sniper

[short bridge]

M110 is just nuts

[slender shore]

but if you can two hit any sniper can too?

[quasi acorn]

A two shot DMR with over 1k velo is crazy to me

[quasi acorn]

yea but the rate of fire is substantially higher on the DMR

[slender shore]

doesn't explain this tho

[quasi acorn]

For the sniper you need to rebolt after each shot, DMRs you can just keep shooting

[quasi acorn]

for a sniper to kill a exo support to the body (if you hit armor) it takes 3 shots, or if you hit limbs it only takes 2. for the DMR it (should iirc) take 3 shots as well, but can also take 2 shots to kill if you hit limbs but at a much higher rate of fire, making the DMR more effective than the sniper in some scenarios

[short bridge]

Also there is 0 Glint and 0 Trails while firing 😄

[quasi acorn]

^

and less sound

so the M110 kinda outclasses the snipers in some categories

[real gate]

Sniper is the professional's weapon though

If you use a DMR you're just an asshole

[tawny mirage]

I want to be stealthy with a sniper at closer than halfway across the world, but I cant do that with trails, so I end up having to be that asshole

[quasi acorn]

I can still work around the trails when playing aggressive, but I have noticed it to be more annoying bc people know where I am even if they are not directly looking at me

[short bridge]

See the funny thing about that is some people want snipers to push objectives and help playing the game but yet they dont see it like we do lol

[quasi acorn]

I want to help the team and push with them, but the way the snipers are rn actively discourages that

[short bridge]

Yea which is why I love the people who try to argue to nerf snipers but they also want snipers to push objectives and not be playing on top of a tower/building.

[slender shore]

dmr have glint? didn't oki change that?

[slender shore]

hm

but it's the same with body if you are close enough

[quasi acorn]

It's only on the 6x

[slender shore]

and no armor

[quasi acorn]

the medium zooms only have glint if they are on a sniper

[slender shore]

I thought all medium ones?

just a bit amaller

[quasi acorn]

if only on the snipers, not DMRs

but yea the glint is smaller on mediums than long zooms and the glit only starts at 200m and beyond with mediums

[tropic quarry]

legit why i made thread on trails, and it got 100 ✅. current issue with trails is that it requires little to zero awareness from the enemy to spot you even though you killed the person you were shooting at while sound and glint at least require the person to use some game sense/have some awareness to spot you. its not impossible to play around but it is annoying and hinders closer play with sniper (sub 150m) while encouraging the camping style more which to be honest has always been the main complaint about recons

[quasi acorn]

If Oki wants to keep these trails then they need to be 1) black instead of white, 2) thinner, and 3) not last as long, that is what I would do imo

[red merlin]

In the devcast i think he said that they will be last shorter or something

[tropic quarry]

A) Allow an attachment(like suppressors) to greatly reduce or remove trails when equipped B) Make it so trails only appear when the shot has traveled further than 200m C) Make its so the trails dissipates (30~45% of the line will be super faint and hard to trace) from the point it was shot so the enemy can still see the trail and know they were shot but it isnt a straight line all the way to the shooter D) Greatly reduce the current duration(make the last anywhere from 0.4~1.5 secs) of the trails and lower their visibility. these were some of the potential changes i came up with, it can be one or mix of theses which replaces current trails your suggestion matches somewhat with my option D

[short bridge]

• Medium scopes - snipers only, the angle requirement for glint to become visible reduced significantly.

Note: The glint is also invisible under 200 meter, fading in/out

That is the post from the recent updates channel.

One of the reasons why I don't understand why people complaining at all about snipers.

--Again another side note. If you removed headshots from sniping for this scenario and it was only body shots.
A. Sniper 2 shots to the body to kill- Has Glint and Sniper Trails
B. DMR 2 shots to the body to kill- Has No Glint, No Trails, and has Faster Firing Speed.

It's obvious which one is better off using.

[slender shore]

depends on the distance

[tawny mirage]

maybe dmrs should be encouraged to be more of a sidegrade to ar's instead of snipers. more damage, slightly more range, but less rate of fire, and less mag size

[real gate]

Nerf DMR range to 1 meter

[tawny mirage]

make them fire rubber bullets

[real gate]

Nerf DMR velocity to 1

[tawny mirage]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAIsBob3ekA

[astral rain]

That’s basically what they are

[remote lily]

Just my two cents but I think snipers should be more balanced around midrange fights rather than camping on a hilltop. If the sniper “meta” becomes closer fights, it not only makes it less frustrating to die to a sniper, but also encourages them to actually play the objective and help their team. As it is, most of the sniper downsides and the changes suggested by op would just make it even harder to actually play to help your team with a sniper(as does the existence of recon squads somewhat imply). If snipers were meant to operate at maybe only slightly farther than dmrs/rifles then I think they might feel a lot better to play against and perhaps require more skill in positioning.

[gritty prawn]

why is this thread still active

[remote lily]

TLDR make snipers function at the ranges 90%of the other guns in the game do and they will feel less out of place

[remote lily]

Idk I just got here

[fathom tangle]

RPG’s need more spread over distance imo. Can’t snipe with them irl

[fathom tangle]

You may be right. Would you say map design, not weapon design is the main reason snipers are hated on?

Irl they have unfair advantage in firefights. In fact, I heard when a sniper is about to be captured, snipers would try to bury their sniper gear to hide the fact they are sniper to prevent getting punished more severely by enemies due to unfair advantage in firefights

Could be fun if something like that was implemented in game

Punishing captured snipers

Maybe if enemy drags your body and you are sniper, you can’t completely die until they release you-torture the campers lol

Or something…

[untold bone]

For the person shooting. . . .

If i understood correctly for everyone else its the same long ass trail

[red merlin]

Ah shame
Recon mains cant get a break

[primal seal]

it's the dumbest "solution" possible lmao

[untold bone]

its not a solution, but extremely little qol

[primal seal]

a solution for snipers being more capable at short to medium ranges from what i can tell

so a "buff" for them

but a pretty bad one

[short quarry]

I have a better IDEA!

Have a large beacon follow any player with the recon class

And the people would still complain

“too over powered still”

[tawny mirage]

I mean, yeah
Its not powerful because you know where they are, theyre powerful because despite knowing where they are, you cant do anything about them.

you cant counter a sniper in any way that you can counter any other class.
for every class in the game, the main counter is shooting them. you can kill them.
For sniper, you cant do that. However, there is no other counter.

Imagine a support that could not be killed. you have to avoid them. and then they kill you, and people say "just avoid them" as the counter.

Now imagine they can one shot/2 shot you, shoot slower, and are now halfway across the map from you.
That's sniper

[quasi acorn]

Thing is, movement should be considered as a counter to snipers because of the bolt's slow rate of fire. If you do stuff like serpentine, jump, air strafe, etc etc you greatly reduce your chances of dying to a sniper bc the sniper has that one shot that he must hit before you disappear into cover. Now, if you're in the middle of nowhere, then that's your own fault for placing yourself in a bad position with no cover around you. Countering a sniper should be different than other classes because of their long range capabilities but slower fire rate, which simply isn't seen in other classes than maybe the DMRs, but they have their own ways to be countered.

I see too many people complain about dying to snipers and I see gameplay of them running in a straight line or trying to tap fire trying to kill the sniper 200+m away

Snipers are a specialty type of gun category, one that is supposed to be high risk and high reward along with having the most skill involved when compared to other gun categories. This is kinda tainted in BBR bc snipers are pretty easy to use when compared to other titles like BF and artificial "risk and reward" with stuff like the trails, which is more risk than reward rn imo.

[worn geode]

Killing a player that is moving in an unpredictable pattern is really hard, so yes, it's a really good counter

Bolts are pretty slow after all

[tawny mirage]

They arent high risk. They are the lowest risk class in the game.
Assault-support's risk is dying.
Sniper's risk is missing a single shot

[quasi acorn]

That's my point, BBR kinda got snipers wrong imo with forcing them to play this extremely long range type of playstyle and no other kind of playstyles are supported unless you swap to something like DMRs or force yourself to play differently than the norm.

And we have seen multiple times that people, those playing with and against, do not like the campy type of sniper playstyle. The only person that likes that is the selfish sniper themselves, which is fine if it's a handful out of 127, but having the majority play like that is a very big problem, like we see now

[slender shore]

hoping that the enemy misses his shot is not a good counter at all

[worn geode]

Skill issue

[quasi acorn]

Well, how else are you supposed to counter a long range sniper? Lets say you're a assault with a SMG, we can already confirm that you cannot shoot him at long range, so that's out of the question, so your only other option is to maneuver so that the sniper has the lowest possibility to hit his shot. And that is inherently the problem, the only counter to a long range sniper is another long range sniper (or a massive group heading towards the sniper but that is extremely rare and hard to coordinate).

[red merlin]

smokes exist

[quasi acorn]

True

[slender shore]

smokes and dodging both arent counters

[quasi acorn]

Then what is?

I do consider both to be a counter, especially movement

[red merlin]

it is a counter, you dont get killed by the sniper

not to mention you can insta build as support

also also dmrs exist

[tawny mirage]

Dodging is the bare minimum that should be possible.
If the only counter is the bare minimum, something needs to happen

[tawny mirage]

I gave a suggestion here (at the bottom)

[slender shore]

i take that back it was badly written

[tawny mirage]

every class interacts with each other in fights by pressuring them, pushing them, shooting them
Every class interacts with a sniper by not being able to interact.
Recon shoots, the target has to dodge.
I'll say it again and again,
"You have to succeed every block. I only need to succeed once"

[slender shore]

what i mean is smokes and movement might prevent your death (if you are lucky) but arent doing anything towards the sniper. So you risk a ton/ loose resources while he is simply not gaining anything while also not loosing anything

[quasi acorn]

Correct, which is the issue

However, we need to find a solution to satisfy both parties. We cannot just keep nerfing snipers

[red merlin]

dmrs and brs exist people

and every class has at least a br

[slender shore]

try fighting a good sniper with a br

its nonsense

and only some classes have a dmr

[quasi acorn]

A good sniper will position himself well so that he can escape a engagement if needed

[slender shore]

which comes back to only snipers are counters to snipers

[red merlin]

3 classes have dmrs
medic has smokes
support has insta build

[tawny mirage]

1: Snipers are better than dmrs at the range that is an issue
2: Smokes are limited.
3: You cant just be forced to stay in one place, or crawl around the whole map while saying "haha I beat the sniper!"

[slender shore]

3 classes have dmrs
1 of these is the sniper. And if you use medium/long range scopes to battle the sniper you become the sniper yourself even if you arent using the sniper class

telling an assault to pick a sniper to shoot a sniper makes him a sniper even if he isnt using that class

if you understand that example

[red merlin]

1. most snipers piss of the moment they get hit, besides mk20 and m110 are very good against them
2. that is true, however medic with smoke launcher comes with like 9 smokes
3. as support you can place stuff on the move instantly and squad points are hard to deplete quickly

[red merlin]

recon can also use brs but it doesnt make them an assault

[slender shore]

if they use normal scopes they are no longer a sniper

[tawny mirage]

1: I dont know why they do that, but reasonably, shooting potshots at a sniper is a great way to get sniped
2: Yes, but if you want to conceal yourself until you get past the sniper, you may need quite a few smokes
3: Eventually you'll have to get out of cover and run. its not reasonable to put down cover, wait for a shot that may not come until you get out of cover, move (and probably get shot/shot at) and then put down more cover until you get to your destination.

[slender shore]

its not balanced if the sniper can fire one or two shots and you are supposed to build the chinese wall just getting from A to B

[red merlin]

1. if you are skilled enough with a dmr it is easy to hit them at least once
   2 and 3. that is assuming you are stupid enough to be in the middle of an open field for some reason that has no elevation or cover of any kind

[slender shore]

2 and 3. that is assuming you are stupid enough to be in the middle of an open field for some reason that has no elevation or cover of any kind
you mean like a good amount of the maps are?

if you are skilled enough with a dmr it is easy to hit them at least once
and if hes skilled enough you are dead while doing that

[tawny mirage]

That's suggesting you should change your weapon specifically because snipers exist

not everyone wants to use a dmr

[red merlin]

and whos fault is it?

you have the means

if you dont want to use said means then you are to blame

[tawny mirage]

whats the gun thats able to deal with assault, medic, engineer, and support? All of them?
Whats the gun that's able to deal with recon? One of them.

Is it my fault that a sniper exists? is it my fault that I dont want to have to account for them the entire time that I play?

[slender shore]

and we are back to snipers are the only counter to snipers 🙃

[red merlin]

yall realise you can ignore the sniper right?
nobody is forcing you to strictly kill him to avoid being killed by one
and yes it is entirely your fault if you dont want to use anything i suggested going under the presumtion that the sniper you are facing is the eqvivalent of white death

[tawny mirage]

Yall realize you can ignore the sniper right?

The whole f'ing point is to not have to ignore the sniper

The only thing you can do in this game when you see a sniper is ignore one

[red merlin]

kek

[tawny mirage]

The only thing you can do is either
1: Change your weapon from the one you're having fun with to the one that does better against snipers
2: pray to jesus christ himself that the sniper misses

[slender shore]

1. you cant just ignore a sniper if you dont want to get shot
2. if only we had proper ways to avoid snipers without having to change the entire playstyle because of 1 (One) player. And now imagine there are 20 of them
   Smokes are decent but building and picking a Dmr are simply not solutions

besides why should 4/5 of the playerbase have to change their playstyle so that 1/5 can stay still and play braindead?

[grim orbit]

Bro, the sniper is the strongest and weakest class in the game at the same time, seems fine to me

[slender shore]

sniper is by far the easiest low risk high reward class there is rn

[tawny mirage]

what makes it the weakest?

[grim orbit]

If you CQB them you can easily fuck him

[red merlin]

by ignore i mean not actively shoot
and yeah like there are gonna be 20 snipers in one spot

[slender shore]

20 snipers in different spots is way worse than if they were in one spot

[grim orbit]

Well the sniper are made to fight in long distances

[tawny mirage]

The problem is getting to them
You have to go through 126/63/31 other players to get to the 127th/64th/32nd, and there are gonna be more snipers that will be watching the routes you take to flank

[red merlin]

sniper trails and lack of proper cqc defense other than a glock

[grim orbit]

Exactly

[tawny mirage]

They have the best cqb defense of not getting to cqb in the first place

[slender shore]

sniper trails dont help at all if you cant shoot em

[red merlin]

it does help
lets half of the map know you exist

[slender shore]

ye and the only ones than can properly deal with you are other snipers

[grim orbit]

And the Glock is never enough to kill a Mp7 Medic or assault with decent aim and gamesense

[tawny mirage]

and what are they going to do with that information? They cant kill you. now they know that half of the map is being locked down

[red merlin]

good luck fighting off more than 3 dudes approaching you ass

[tawny mirage]

wow, they're so afraid of the people running at them 600+ meters away like they wont get killed by the frontline, and shot by the other snipers

[grim orbit]

The main weakness of a sniper is when he is detected

[slender shore]

the main weakness of a sniper is a better enemy sniper

[red merlin]

you are forgeting literally vehicles too

did you know that those exist as a fast way of transport and offense?

[grim orbit]

If you're detected in the 100-300m range, someone probably try to get you down, if the range is more than that, other snipers will focus you

[tawny mirage]

I guess, but still vehicles can get shredded, and blown up by rpgs. Most vehicles will get stuck not on the road, and caught by people on the road.
Helicopters exist, but at that point you have to ask the question of why the hell a sniper is worth an entire helicopter

[slender shore]

do you know that there a quite a few modes without vehicles and vehicles being weak af?

[red merlin]

off road driving

[tawny mirage]

most likely you'll get stuck when you go off road

[red merlin]

skill issue

get a drivers lisence then

[tawny mirage]

This retort is so stupid I cant think of a retort that's not dragging myself down to this level

[red merlin]

i got nothing else to say to you

[tawny mirage]

alright then

[red merlin]

you get stuck by driving, skill issue

[slender shore]

[remote lily]

This is why I say snipers meta should be changed to something more midrange. Allows sniper players to still play the game and enjoy the weapon, but makes them a lot easier to reach for other players.

If somebody wants to play a campy sniper just for fun then they can, but it shouldn’t be the meta strat all the tryhards are encouraged to use.

[astral rain]

It is

Super long range snipers get relatively few kills

Once you’re past the point where enemy ARs pose a threat to you, going much further really just makes it harder to hit

[remote lily]

Glint on mid scopes seems to encourage farther play, but you’re right I guess

In that case what I’m saying is they should be encouraged to play even closer

[patent notch]

How about “skill issue” and work on your positioning? Sniping isn’t an easy thing to do if your target is constantly moving or constantly behind cover. Counter-sniping is literally a thing.

I’ve played Recon class before and when I’m Assault or Medic I really only get killed if I’m sitting still or sitting in a corner for too long. Snipers are built to punish bad positioning.

As long as there aren’t snipers that can OHKO body it’s fine, and even if we do have snipers that OHKO body they should have a long reload time as a downside for that

[still verge]

they should make the scope glint rgb and flash

[slender shore]

sniping is literally the easiest thing to do

[short bridge]

it's also really easy to run around with a vector or ump and ur point is what?

[slender shore]

the point is that vector and ump have lots of counters and snipers dont

[short bridge]

what scenario

[slender shore]

and bringing skill issue and "sniping isnt easy" in one sentence is just straight up funny

[slender shore]

literally almost every scenario that isnt constructed

[short bridge]

WOW thats a great scenario almost like its just biased

[astral rain]

Not really

Their counters are < being in a wide open space >

The enemy can’t do anything specific to counter them

[short bridge]

He is just arguing for the sake of arguing. If you read his past comments there is few suggestions that add anything to the topic

[astral rain]

Snipers though, can actually be countered by wiggling your mouse erratically

To an extent that works on other guns but nowhere near as effectively

[slender shore]

if you actually read my past comments you would know the answer to your question

[short bridge]

That's why I said nothing you have said has been relevant enough