#Remove critical hits from Blackhawk/K60 or increase its mobility

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

brazen thunder
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Posibility to shot down heavy helicopter (that is almost uncontrolable by pilot) with 4 hits from 30mm cannon is unplayable.

Yes, its very realistic, and the experienced APC shooter hits 5 shoots in a row to your flying elephant and destroy your tail rotor and you cant do anything because machine is ultra heavy.

I agree that it is a flying tank, but 3 rpg hits (20 seconds + experience + lucky, should be two maybe) vs 4 hits from APC (2 seconds + lucky) is imba.

Posibility to repair upside rotor (and other broken parts) with a repair tool would be a good addition too. Especially if pilot was killed by sniper and heli falls between buildings.

Another point of discussion is sniper damage to vehicle body, btw snipers see that helicopter is in-fire, and work as stingers most of times, that is little confusing. I can understand minigunner that shoot full 100 mag to heli, but the sniper rifle that kills you because so easy to target with his gun when you already on your main - its unexpected.

brazen thunder
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Remove critical hits from Blackhawk/K60 or increase its mobility

hot leaf
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takes more

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and by kill I mean explode

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kaboom everyone dies

slim escarp
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Blackhawk used to not have a tail weakness and it was imba

hot leaf
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in this context what does imba mean

slim escarp
brazen thunder
hot leaf
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I’ve seen mf tank 6 shots

brazen thunder
# slim escarp It was super fucking annoying and OP

i agree that its armor is overpowered, because no stingers implemented, but 4 hits (1 second) to kill that uncontrollable elephant should make it useless, but players uses it just about "free helicopter, you must"

slim escarp
hot leaf
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it just bounces

brazen thunder
hot leaf
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Oh tail rotor

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That’s one bullet

brazen thunder
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lol

hot leaf
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full on exploding the hawk is easily 6-8 APC rounds
tail rotor is 1.

brazen thunder
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in case apc is only counter-unit vs blackhawks - it seems a good thing.
btw it should not be counter unit by design with that vertical angles
apc with m134 could be

hot leaf
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1 skilled guy with rpg can take it down

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1 littlebird

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Another hawk

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Tank*

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stuff like that

brazen thunder
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yes, tandem / tank is enough hard to hit that unit. APC isnt

slim escarp
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If you played the blawk before the tail rotor nerf you would understand why it was implemented... before you could drop down on a full point and just repair thru the rpgs it was super busted

hot leaf
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It’s down to leading and praying if you hit a shot

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cause oh boy you cannot account for the inaccuracy that cannon brings

brazen thunder
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agree then, maybe "damaged tail rotor" that means "start to falling down / losing height" instead of "fall as iron"

fair sphinx
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Remember the tail rotor is a joke

blazing nova
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You loose your tail rotor your going down thats just how helicopters work

burnt finch
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it can be saved irl, but it takes skill and very quick reactions for it

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which is honestly how it should work in game

blazing nova
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Saved with a rapid landing but you ain’t flying no more

burnt finch
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you can in fact fly

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its tough as hell, especially if you wer hovering

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but you can

blazing nova
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How do you counter the spin without a tail rotor

burnt finch
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forward velocity

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you need to move fast and the chopper will correct

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if you have altitude Auto would work as well

blazing nova
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Auto rotation is usually just for a main rotor failure isnt it

burnt finch
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engine shutdown would also make it happen

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there are other steps of course, but thats a very basic way of saying it

blazing nova
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Huh the more you know

hot leaf
# burnt finch you can in fact fly

Would be cool to save birds like that
Basically “tail rotor destroyed” meaning “ah shit boys we gotta dip no more flying today”

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instead of “ah shit boys we gotta die we hittin the ground today”

burnt finch
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yeah, would hope. Allows the cinematic, oh shit we're going down moments, but at the same time allows a good/preparred pilot to make it back to base or at least a safe spot to land

blazing nova
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Would be nice indeed

brazen thunder
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god... trouble is immediate kill, possible that or not IRL, is even not the point.

i understood that without weakzones flying tank is an imba. but weakzone that gives possibility to single-hit kill unit that respawns 2 minutes and could kill 14 players inside, and also cant evade that shoot - is opposite imba.

burnt finch
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that kinda is the point

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the thing has 3k health

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and a single weakpoint

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all we need to do is not make it a guaranteed death, let pilots try and fly it out

serene aspen
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Yesterday I sniped the tail rotor from spawn to spawn with a patrol boat cannon. So I do agree with this post somewhat.

burnt finch
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how fucking slow was he moving damn

serene aspen
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Not slow at all

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I just lead the target with a burst

burnt finch
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ah so straight line then

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yeah that tracks

serene aspen
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Guess so. But still, I agree that RPGs should 1shot tail rotors, but I wouldn’t mind the tails surviving 1 or 2 auto cannon shells

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It’s really easy to shoot them down if you get the hang of it

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I don’t even fly often, I just think it’s sorta too easy

burnt finch
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that's my point, its less the health(though that could go up) its that its instant death with no way to counter and try and fly the helicopter.

tough thistle
burnt finch
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RPGs. Miniguns vs basically anything that isn't a lone person

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3k health

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repair tools

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medics

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thing will never die if the crew knows what they are doing

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and can kill quite a bit with it before then anyway

serene aspen
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Single support with M249:

burnt finch
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an LB maybe

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if the pilot ignores the damage

serene aspen
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You can really hurt the crew with a good aim

burnt finch
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blackhawk? not so much, again unless the crew/pilot are not that experienced yet.

serene aspen
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Miniguns are still pretty bad imo

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Maybe if they were stabilized

burnt finch
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yeah, not so good against single people, but groups and vehicles can be terrorised pretty easily

serene aspen
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Yeah, but groups have a lot of rockets :p

burnt finch
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especially since most vehicles cannot even engage the chopper unless its far away

serene aspen
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Just use a hill to increase elevation

burnt finch
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and groups also tend to ignore the helo long enough for a strafing pass, + its own RPGs

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a hill, right, still can't aim more than 30 degrees up unless its truly steep, and then good luck engaging something you will see pass over you inless than a second

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not to mention boats and trucks. Tanks less so, but that's what the RPGs are for.

serene aspen
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The only vehicle I complain about elevationwise is patrol boats

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Since they can’t do anything against a little bird in open-water

burnt finch
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they have the same as the APC

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20 degrees

serene aspen
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Yeah but the APC can use cover/hills for aiming

burnt finch
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cover means nothing, neither do hills

serene aspen
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Patrol boat is just fucked against a littlebird

burnt finch
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if a chopper is above you, its hovering out of reach of your gun

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good pilots fly low and fast

serene aspen
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I’ve never died to a littlebird in an apc

burnt finch
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notice how we are talking about BH and KA in this thread?

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and even then APC still dies to a little bird unless it runs back to base

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it can have more cover than a boat, but that's not exactly a vehicle aspect now is it

serene aspen
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You use the cover to increase elevation

burnt finch
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yeah and not shoot a chopper because you dumbass is useless somewhere in a corner of map

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or it knows you are there and just flys over you with you tiny as hell angle of authority and get behind you

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the gun is only good at a distance.

serene aspen
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There are hills and changes in elevation literally everywhere

burnt finch
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most of which would net you a grand total of 5 degrees.

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the bigger ones would offer that much because the camera sucks

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and is not technically attached to the APC/vehicle model

soft remnant
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You could remove the tail rotor and replace it with applied force to the chopper.
Like when shells/rpgs hit the chopper they force it to the other direction and throw it off balance. The force applied changes depending on how powerful the firepower was

burnt finch
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already happens because unity

soft remnant
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Well more than that

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You still make it hard for the pilot to keep going especially if flying low

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But you dont make it a blackhawk going down movie kind of thing

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Currently it feels like you are in a movie when the tail goes wild

burnt finch
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thats the point

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its supposed to be cinematic

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most people want to keep that, but we could make it better by making the helicopter spin but allowing the pilot to correct it as you can do irl. so it stays cinematic, but is not just "easy kill" anymore

soft remnant
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Yeah i dont like the movie thing. I think there should be a way for a good pilot to deal with it

burnt finch
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so, we agree?

soft remnant
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Sure yeah. Anything that gives a chance is good

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Its a game. Im not a dedicated pilot but i like the idea of having dedicated pilots in open games like this.
They do gods work by transporting the team and supporting all over the map. Its not like we get 5 choppers per team

burnt finch
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if the enemy team is bad we can

soft remnant
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I think i've seen 3 in wakistan. Never seen 5
And from those its like 1 black hawk and 2 little birds and one little bird is a 2 seat option i believe

burnt finch
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depends on the map

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some have teams spawn with 2 and two, plus the map spawns

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but that's rare. most you might see if 4 if all the pilots are good

hot leaf
lucid geyser
tough thistle
burnt finch
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Gotta love helo pilots reaping what that sow.

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gun had to much elevation? nerf. Gun was too accurate? nerf, here have spread the size of the helo.

brazen thunder
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All am telling that you complain about headshot from sniper ("snipers too many in game! please, nerf damage, please add helmet, please add bullet trail, please please please"), but:

  1. killing 14 players via SINGLE HIT is not a problem
  2. you can evade sniper shoot if you move, THING cannot
  3. sniper needs to reload every shoot and aim again, instead APC could shot 5 shots in a row, and only needed skill to precount flying speed (btw its limited by vertical degree, that increased skill requirement, so pro can kill 2 SQAUDS of newbies in 0.5 seconds, is that true?)
  4. you can shoot sniper back by highlight his scope and accidentally kill him. but from miniguns or even rpgs from expected height you cant kill APC accidentally, you could do it in 15 seconds with skill and lucky, not in 0.5 seconds
    and of course YOU LIKE that.
dense bay
brazen thunder
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@dense bay yeah grandpa, we still thank your theory

dense bay
hot leaf
dense bay
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Also, APCs have horrible accuracy

hot leaf
dense bay
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In my 100 and something hours of gameplay I think I've seen only 1 rotor kill, so it's not an easy thing to do

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It's a non issue and perfectly balanced

hot leaf
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from an Apc

dense bay
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Yep

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Rotor kill are only a flex if you think about it

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Why shot at the smaller target when the entire chopper is a big metal coffin?

tough thistle
brazen thunder
hot leaf
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just face towards the apc

brazen thunder
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yep, will do

hot leaf
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and keep on flying your intended direction

dense bay
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The best solution for that is reduce RPG speed so you can hit consistently on land but not in air, and add a AA rocket

brazen thunder
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its about "could you please increase that time to at least 20 seconds instead of 5 hits then die"

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@dense bay i have nothing vs RPG, its difficult to hit heli, its just happens. am talking only about APC cannon

tough thistle
fair sphinx
# tough thistle AA rockets, with 254 players, is definitely a sure way to make helis unplayable

What if it is only available to the squad leader? And it will work not as a stinger but as a rocket launcher from Half Life (sorry, I don’t know the name of the analogue from real life and whether it even exists). You will also need to balance the maneuverability and speed of the rocket so that it is not too easy. Do minimal damage to infantry and heavy vehicles. But in this case, we will need to reduce the damage to light armored vehicles from small arms, otherwise it will be too painful to fly on the LB with such a number of countermeasures

tough thistle
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That would be honestly still too much, or not, definitely limiting it to only SL, is unintuitive . Majority of SL's doesn't know they are SL's

fair sphinx
tough thistle
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If you want AA, it could realisticly be only vehicle, because that's dumb enough to understand, and because of being limited in availablity can be made good at its job

fair sphinx
tough thistle
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You are giving AA to one or two players, so that's def not avalible to everyone, but it can do it job and be balanced

fair sphinx
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An AA vehicle would be a good idea provided that the AA strength of small arms is reduced

tough thistle
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Optionally, static AA emplacements, but this runs the risk of making no fly zones, or pilots will avoid then making them useless

tough thistle
fair sphinx
burnt finch
burnt finch
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not something overly powerful like a 20mm or larger, but enough to make the chopper think twice about just charging into it, and doubles as a ground combat tool

fallen lotus
# brazen thunder Posibility to shot down heavy helicopter (that is almost uncontrolable by pilot)...

The instant-down from an APC/Gunboat round needs to be changed. Any other explosive to the tail should still do it. It is just way too easy to drop a chopper from 100% with an entire dedicated crew to spinning to the ground instantly with no warning. I have over 300 hours in the game and pretty much exclusively fly Blackhawk and I am confident that this needs to be changed.

I don't agree with many of the posts here about the Blackhawks because I don't want them to be too OP. But as of right now, they are not anywhere near as effective as many people seem to think. If you simply compare the time spent to kill ratio to literally anything else in the game, it is clear to see that the Blackhawk is not OP.

I think something like what @burnt finch is saying where the tail rotor would go out, but still be recoverable could be a viable fix, but then you lose out on the cinematic downing which I and many others love.

I say we keep the instant-down feature, but make it only work for APCs if they get 2 or 3 hits on the chopper with the final hit being a hit to the tail rotor. Something to that effect would make it possible to down choppers that were being overzealous as mentioned by @slim escarp, while removing the ability to instantly drop a 100% HP Hawk out of nowhere.

I have easily 200+ hours of just flying the Blackhawk. Many of you in the US servers have likely flown with me. I am not wanting to make the Hawk OP, but I can confidently say that a change needs to be made to the instant-down from APC/Gunboat rounds. This would allow the Hawks to be used as transports again instead of having them so scared to hold still near the ground for longer than 2 seconds. I love doing a good battle chopper run, but feel that the purpose of the Blackhawk as a transport chopper has been lost due to how fragile the tail rotor is.

Please respond if you feel differently. Please react with checkmark if you agree. See you all on the battlefield. 🚁

burnt finch
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and honestly, what's more cinematic, the same animation of a chopper spinning out, or not knowing if your pilot can save it and pull up with feet to spare? just remember, when I said about making it recoverable, you need speed for it. so a chopper landing or hovering would still be spinning out unless they were very high, while a chopper in motion can be saved by a pilot instead of dropping out of the sky for the next 6 minutes (or however long the respawn is)

fallen lotus
burnt finch
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you ain't killing with it. your crew is.

fallen lotus
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Getting kills in the Blackhawk

burnt finch
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not exactly a good comparison to something that you control

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and only 1 player needs to be in

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Blackhawk also is pretty OP for what its supposed to be.

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but also not, because of the spawn system

fallen lotus
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It’s a ratio I am comparing. I am basically saying that if the people in the Blackhawk crew were to do any other play style, they would get more kills for the time they put in. That is the comparison. Since it is so inefficient, it can’t be OP

fallen lotus
burnt finch
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considering good crews can rack up 30 kills each, 20-30 for the gunners...

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with usually little resistance, and they can delete other vehicles(besides the helicopters) pretty easily...

fallen lotus
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30 each? Definitely not. The engineers are lucky to get 10 in a good chopper run. Gunners can get more if you target light vehicles with multi kills. Then the guys on the inside of the bird are not getting any kills at all

burnt finch
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I've seen the helo crew rack up a combined 230 kills in one game man.

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that is of course with them just sitting in the blackhawk and not playing INF if they can help it.

fallen lotus
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230? I’m having a hard time understanding how that would even be possible playing only in the Blackhawk. Even if you were downing fully loaded enemy hawks all game, that would take 19 hawks 🤔

burnt finch
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flying low and RPGing clusters

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was insane how much they dictated how well the team was doing

fallen lotus
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Maybe on waki if you are doing RPG runs on bridge and happen to not get sniped by an rpg to the tail… even then it would be pretty insanely difficult.

light ravine
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BH is in a weird spot
BH has miniguns that are practically useless against infantry, is pretty slow and can be taken out with relative ease
But it can tank a heat RPG and a literal tank shell otherwise

fallen lotus
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Agreed. It is too strong in the wrong ways and too weak in the wrong ways

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Makes it hard to use as a transport, but too strong as a flying HP tank

burnt finch
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people used to be fine with the helo dying in a single tank shell, or an unguided rpg

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but now that is too much anti-air

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just make the tail rotor not be a scripted event, and allow the pilot to recover (need to get to high speed to straighten out) and then lower HP

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tanks need to have their AP buffed, that thing tickles what it hits at best

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and that's before you have the massive HP pool of the transports

fallen lotus
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I think your solution is totally valid like I said, I just personally like the spin out animation. I agree the HP needs to be rebalanced for the BH and many other vehicles especially in regards to the tank’s AP shells.

light ravine
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I think the funniest thing about the tail rotor is that you dont even need a RPG nor APC to destroy it

burnt finch
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well you would spin out still

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the pilot would need to get near max forward speed to save it, thats not always possible

light ravine
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You can just shoot the tail rotor with a normal gun and with enough bullets it will get destroyed

fallen lotus
burnt finch
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that is also true, but its a lot harder since you got to target to axle of it

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the blades themselves take no damage

light ravine
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Yeah but I did it like once on pure accident in a match and was shocked that its a thing