Oki decided that the current weapon balance is well-finished; the same text is found in the feedback section. Then Oki mentioned that he should redesign the "somewhat" long-range aspect and began nerfing weapons for long distances by adjusting damage. This is because the issue still exists, but nobody attempts to discuss it, using the keyword "skill issue" to halt the conversation.
#Long range combat and "skill issue" issue of issue
rancid sky
The problem is not only in "long-range combat" but also in:
How easy it is to send a barrage of bullets to the enemy (M4/AK74/UMP could effortlessly send 10-12 bullets with a 1-2 mm deviation to the enemy at 70-80m. The problem isn't accuracy but the ability to hold a key, and all bullets still hit within a 1cm circle at a distance).
How simple it is to aim the enemy as a sniper (lol, that 7-10kg tree in my hands behaves like I'm using a morning razor for shaving).
Balancing this via damage while relying on "high-skill" and "correctness" is a flawed approach. Some level of acceptance could be reached, of course. And now it is.
But in reality, damage is only half of the equation. For example, you don't see the problem of an instant kill by a mine, but an instant kill by a sniper is a problem for some reason. Same scenarios, different perspectives.
To balance weapons at long range, several additional ways were suggested (I assume you've already realized them, but disable them in most cases):
First shot recoil. Holding the key with the first shot could initially push your gun skyward, but with every subsequent shot, your character gains control, and the point returns to place you start shooting. This even dont touch the recoil. So you can't send 30 rounds to the target; you'll miss the first 10, and the remaining 20 will hit, considering the time delay. So, the damage could be high, but will you hit the enemy?
Sideways movement with weapon shaking. You prefer boosting maximum speed with machine-pistols instead of enhancing mobility. Mobility isn't just maximum speed; it also includes rotation speed, walk speed, and the speed of parkour. You're modifying a very crucial stat - max speed, and now all pros play like headless chickens because... it's working.
Armor. Exo armor protects you from snipers but does nothing against small arms. It should work the other way around. Exo armor should be easy to control for enemies who prefer unstoppable running, but the sniper should be a counter-unit against heavies because a .338 can penetrate even an APC vehicle. So heavy unit is a defense unit, he stay on the point, dont move far.
Sniper rifles actually have a 0.2 aiming speed, as I mentioned before. In most cases, one weak side of the sniper is that you have to prepare to shoot; once prepared, you can kill the entire team one by one. Instead, you give him extra preparation time, and now you need to nerf him by damage, bullet trail, moving speed while aiming, speed boost of enemies; it breaks the balance more instead of fixing it.
By the way, I'm playing well here, and I can agree with existing stats because personally, the game provides me with enough new mechanics that make it better than BF3/4/1942 or any other. Like other people who play here. I'm just talking about how "it could be more interesting instead of more understandable.
celest quiver
How much time did it take for you to write all of this? lol
carmine ibex
Blud be yappin
pulsar isle
About balancing long range the fix is pretty simple. Recoil. I know nobody likes recoil but the general idea is that smgs and pdws should basically be recoil hell in a way. Good in close range but pretty bad in medium and long range.
Guns that fire rounds incredibly fast should have high recoil and that can have a variety. You can have smgs that are very hard hitting have both high vertical and horizontal recoil while lower damage ones can have one of the two.
And attachments should only fix that recoil up to a point.
Similarly, assault rifles should have medium recoil and relly more on burst fire or semi auto over 100m
Dmrs depending on damage and rate of fire should also have their recoil adjusted but obviously they should be your go to mid range option. Maybe lower the DMR damage to compensate for less recoil
I dont have that much of an issue with DMRs to be honest but yeah smgs are weirdly good at mid range and ARs should be played with burst and semi auto way more in mid range than with full auto
rancid sky
@celest quiver gpt writes for me, i just play BB... i dont even know he posted it
rancid sky
😄
boreal yew
was gonna ask is this like google translate or something but no its chatgpt LUL
celest quiver
That's why none of this makes any sense.
carmine ibex
I sure do love shooting my 7-10kg trees
pulsar isle
I think its right about guns being good at longer ranges from what they are supposed to be tho
I can basically run a MP5 like a AR
carmine ibex
Nah thats a fat cap
boreal yew
i agree mp5 can laser but like its damage is like what?
rancid sky
@boreal yew actually it is. i've shoot from m110 like gun in my 30yold being in Kiev, the trouble is follow the point with this tree, not hit the target. I dont know what a shwarznegger could be to operate this without bipod. And its m110. There is m200, barret and so on stuff
boreal yew
are you using chat gpt to translate?\
boreal yew
<@265164373369159682> actually it is. i've shoot from m110 like gun in my 30yold...
what im saying mp5 is a laser even at 100m
but its damage isnt that good past what 50m?
like 10 dmg per hit? or something?
carmine ibex
but its damage isnt that good past what 50m?
Past 30-40 i think is when it drops hard
rancid sky
nowadays distance almost not affect first 100m...
pulsar isle
Its good but like not comparable to any ar
It is comparable to ARs when it comes to range. Its a fast firing smg that can basically reliably hit targets way outside of the range smgs should be able to hit easily
boreal yew
i agree
rancid sky
IRL 9mm bullets does much more damage than AR bullets, but cannot penetrate 2-3 class
rancid sky
kk
boreal yew
which part LUL
rancid sky
@boreal yew am talking damage is not a silver bullet for balance. there's ergonomics (aiming speed), spread control, and accuracy. In case of MP5 - weight of the gun is very small to be a laser on 100m.
rancid sky
Every exploding bullet in chamber shakes this gun, its a laser if you have steel hands. In game - it is. And change damage is not a point
carmine ibex
It is comparable to ARs when it comes to range. Its a fast firing smg that can ...
Maybe, but damage output is shit beyond like 30m
rancid sky
of course, before business used chatgpt to fire me out, i'll use chat gpt to gift him all opportunity (c)
rancid sky
@carmine ibex copy paste to GPT and he will speak with you 😄
two gpts could even speak with each other for 2 minutes...
celest quiver
Consolidate your ideas, into shorter sentances; theres too much dialog when when you're trying to share ideas.
carmine ibex
Yes please
rancid sky
@celest quiver usually i do, this topic is about read and think, not "please add m4a2, because we have only m4a1" 😄
celest quiver
I don't know what to tell you then. Have a good one blud.
rancid sky
thanks for reading, btw
pulsar isle
Maybe, but damage output is shit beyond like 30m
It didnt seem to matter when i played it. I always killed my targets incredibly fast.
Maybe its just me being used to the battlefield idea of smgs being way too "shaky" and inacurrate outside of close range idk.
Either way i'll play the gun that fills that reliable AR role in battlebit no matter the category battlebit places it in cause thats the basic goto build that i like in open games like battlebit and battlefield.
But i do think the game would benefit from actually making smgs "shaky" in mid and long ranges.
It allows each gun type to be chosen for a specific playstyle and separates the gun types better imo
heavy minnow
Honestly, I don't understand this stream of consciousness.
carmine ibex
Honestly, I don't understand this stream of consciousness.
Blud used chat gpt to translate
boreal yew
iirc someone suggested to like make screenshake thingy
carmine ibex
It didnt seem to matter when i played it. I always killed my targets incredibly ...
Idk man i find ARs much better for range than the MP5
boreal yew
Idk man i find ARs much better for range than the MP5
same
unless its the pp19
i can say that gun is pretty reliable 100m+
low recoil still using that old smg dmg fall off
carmine ibex
Tbh pp19 has zero recoil, pretty much reliable at any range
boreal yew
aint great dmg but it does it job
oak gyro
<@280551056134504449> gpt writes for me, i just play BB... i dont even know he p...
Is that why every post you make is an unintelligable schizo rant?
carmine ibex
For hitting shots at least
boreal yew
Is that why every post you make is an unintelligable schizo rant?
chatgpt translation probably not tuned enough
carmine ibex
Still dps wise ars just outplay the mp5
boreal yew
yep
carmine ibex
I mean like ak74, m4, acr, f2k, especially aug are much better
Aug dominates mid range easily
boreal yew
yep love the aug buff aug +1 dmg thank you for reading
flat light
<@280551056134504449> gpt writes for me, i just play BB... i dont even know he p...
So you used chat gpt to make a suggestion instead of trying to use a translating service or attempting to write it yourself.. I hope this is a early April fools joke because this just seems like one.
Also “nerf exo cause sniper can’t one shot it” thats the literal point of exo 
. Sure maybe buff it so it can tank some small arms fire as well but there would be 0 reason to run exo helm if it couldn’t prevent fatal headshot damage
rancid sky
@flat light sniper is always killing slow targets, because he cant do anything with fast target. slow target protection vs snipers makes no sense (actually is, for the slow target, but then sniper becomes weak and heavy becomes weak, 2 bugs as result of fixing one). if they get more recoil or dificult gameplay they could accidentaly become useless.
thats why exo should protect vs fast unit but not vs long range unit.
because heavy cant fight with fast unit same as sniper, you cant just hold the trigger and runner die, no, you miss half of bullets and spent time to raise gun up, and as a result - died.
So expected. heavy is useless and always new topics for buff them. They have no purposes, and... they can insta-build (3 bug to fix existing), or 4 types of laser guns (4 bug to fix existing), to help them at least play.
its like that known situation, where problem was "planes gets back to the base with holes, and decision was add armor there, where smallest count of holes" (because planes with holes in that places didnt make it), but base solution is "add armor where you saw the holes", it wont change the perspective.
so - heavy has armor vs one fatal shot, protection, and cus of that dont have protection vs bullet spread, any gun kills it. you cant ask heavy to check corner and be sure he will complete task, so many targets can insta kill heavy, instead of sniper, that will make it at 2nd shoot, its armor without armor btw
swift grail
that sounds fucking stupid.
at that point why have heavy armor just give them medium and call it a day.
carmine ibex
Yeah no snipers kill everyone equally, slow or not
Given that support is inherently slow you have to give it some advantage and exo kinda allows that already, especially the helmet
swift grail
literally just the helmet
otherwise normal is the way to go because that's the lightest vest you can get rn
carmine ibex
Well the exo chest does give like 2 extra shots from smgs
So its not completely garbage
carmine ibex
Yeah, chest exo needs a buff
swift grail
the vest just ain't worth the debuff period.
helmet only because it stops headshots from all but one gun
carmine ibex
I personally run heavy for extra mags
swift grail
honestly normal for me since all heavy gives is 2 mags more, but is also alot slower than with normal
its a 15% debuff over normal I think
and its not better than normal in protecting you
at least not enough for that big of a debuff
exo at least adds an extra round
carmine ibex
at least not enough for that big of a debuff
Yeah its not too bad
Doesnt make me too slow nor too fast
And its just for the mags
Unless im runnibg lmgs
But exo chest should 100% get some kind of buff
Rn its just too slow with little benefit
swift grail
I never see the use of heavy for support, makes me slower for no extra protection, and I got a box that lets me reload my mags if I ever get low
swift grail
yeah fair, persoanlly like Heavy Med armor.
carmine ibex
Fair fair
swift grail
its always fun, people are so used to seeing medics wearing light or ranger, they stop shooting early and start looking away, I love seeing their double take when they realize I'm not dead.
carmine ibex
Lmaoo yea i can imagine the shock of finding that out
Other than support, i run heavy on engie
I wouldnt use it otherwise but i run drms exclusively on him so yea
2 mags always help
swift grail
fair I actually have Engy as my light class, with assult being heavy and recon being Normal
carmine ibex
Assault, medic and recon for me use ranger, tho medic and recon rangers are more for the drip than anything else
I like my ghilie recon
flat light
<@215923917796147201> sniper is always killing slow targets, because he cant do ...
Brother you’re missing the point. nerfing the helmet’s current only benefit at the cost of speed makes it pointless to use as is. A redesign for the sake of countering short/mid range guns will not make it worth using
It does not need a rework. Just a slight damage resistance/health buff (likely when stationary would work best so it’s not just run into the field and get a free kill), and make it so that arm/leg shooting metas don’t make the tanky armor pointless. Still useful against sniper and can survive a bit longer against aggressive metas when playing defensively