Ribbons, Medals and a Dynamic Rank System

[tawdry salmon]

Currently the devs believe that the player base and core gameplay mechanics are unable to drift away from arcade aspects and become the game they originally had a vision for. They believe that a complete overhaul would be the only way for this game to be a hybrid between arcade and milsim and because of the massive infighting and belligerent hate towards any of these changes they have abandoned this idea and believe that keeping the current game full arcade and making a mode full milsim is the only option. While I do like the idea of a milsim mode I do believe that the current game can still be made more tactical and in line with their original vision without any changes to movement, time to kill or existing mechanics in the game.

The biggest reason that the game feels like a massive team deathmatch and no one plays tactically currently is because that gameplay loop is the only consistent dopamine feedback loop that exists in the game. I believe with the introduction of ribbons, medals and a new dynamic rank (independent of your player level) the current game we have now can naturally move into a new direction where there is now a dopamine feedback loop attached to playing tactically/prioritizing winning without making any changes to the core gameplay.

Ribbons

Ribbons will primarily be something similar to achievements. They will be general awards given for hitting milestones that players naturally get by just playing the game. Examples will be kill threshold with each class, total kill threshold, kills in vehicles, kills in land vehicles, games won, games won in specific game modes, games won on specific maps revive totals, healing totals, repairing totals etc. etc. The ribbons will be on tier thresholds i.e. 6 tiers of total kill ribbons. Tier 1: get 100 kills, Tier 2: 500 kills Tier 3: 1000 kills Tier 4: 5000 Kills Tier 5: 10000 Kills Tier 6: 50000 Kills. The idea is for a gradually scaling system with increased rewards in the form of cosmetics on each tier you hit with the final Tier giving the best item. All these ribbons earned should be made available in the character customization screen and players can chose to display any 4that they want on their soldier.

Medals

Medals will be used to mark accomplishing certain things that can only happen in a single game. Examples of this kill 4 people without reloading with an AR, 7 sniper kills from 300+meters in one life, mark 25 kills in a tank in one life, 30 kills in one life infantry only, 30 kills in one life land vehicle only, revive heal 10 teammates in one life etc. There are literally thousands of potential medals ranging in varying difficulties to achieve that can be composed for this game. Specific high end medals should have independent cosmetic rewards attached to them and, same as with badges, they should be able to be presented on the character through the use of the character customization screen.

Dynamic Rank

A ranking system going from Private - 5 Star General will be implemented in the game. The requirements for moving through these ranks will be having a certain number of medals and ribbons earned as well as a corresponding dynamic score value. This dynamic score(DS) will be a combination of the already tracked KPM and SPM with the addition of newly tracked Support Score per Minute and Objective Score Per Minute. This dynamic score will initially be calibrated through the players average over their first 20 matches. After this calibration sets an average the score will then be adjusted after every match played, your DS will be averaged between your current DS and your DS for that match, it will be heavily fluctuating every match and people should never get hardstuck. In order to reach the highest rank someone will have to have earned around 90% of all ribbons and medals as well as having a very high Dynamic Score. This dynamic rank can even be used as a preliminary mmr for whenever the competitive mode is added as well.

[tidal ibex]

The problem I see here is thaf those ribbons would still reward behavious that make BBR constant TDM. I highly doubt that it would change simply running into most populated area for getting kills, instead of PTFO.

Unless they would reward ONLY team focused actions, i.e. ressuply/healing/caping points/reapir/spot.
No reward for kills etc

[tawdry salmon]

multiple ribbons should be placed on winning matches/game mode types as well as capturing objectives/doing things aside from getting kills. in order to reach 5 star general rank people will have to have earned around 90% of the available ribbons. the hope is that chasing these rewards pulls away people from just chasing kills. sure some players will still just tdm thats fine but this provides a path for a large portion of players myself included to get some dopamine doing things besides killing.

[tidal ibex]

The last six months, or even more, prove that people don't see reward in anything other than kills, even if repairing helis for a whole game is better for your XP than killing, people still play TDM.

The ribbons wouldn't change that on thier own

[tulip dust]

I think that he is advocating mainly for a system that adds rewards for doing things other than kills.

Instead of a system that seeks to fix the issue by removing the rewarding feeling for kills.

[tidal ibex]

The problem is that there is reard for that. We could argue if its high enough, but you are rewarded for other actions

[tawdry salmon]

20 people a game were in the heli, when squad leader gave good xp there were a lot of people that focussed capturing objectives, its the whole system in combination with each other that i think makes it work. the end goal is to make it so at the end of every match you see a number go up or down and are always progressing towards some goal asides just chasing kill records or camos. a new source of dopamine and a set of things to chase. in the text file is a link to bf2:mc ribbons you can see that kills were a small part of them and with this game we can have even more variety.

[barren rapids]

Kill streak ribbion with certain guns sounds awesome

like if you do it with a cqc weapon it shows you can get in there and live

[tidal ibex]

I am all for that, but I doubt it will change much honestly. You will incentivie some, but majority unfortunately sees this game as get kill and die simulator rather than something more. As much as very good change, I honestly don't see it doing much for promoting PTFO and teamwork. It will reward players already doing so,which is very good, but not promote this to a average player.

Though I very much want to be in the wrong here

[barren rapids]

but think of the dopamine hits

[tawdry salmon]

yeah that's fair. its overall a fairly easy thing to implement as most of these things are already tracked and the system used for tracking challenges can be restructured. hardest part would be making the medals and ribbons for in game cosmetic and tuning the algorithm for dynamic score calculator, but i do strongly believe that if all fails just the simple number changing at end of every match does a LOT for replayability on new and existing players. as well as providing grindable cosmetics aside from just weapon camos and call of duty like things. and if cosmetic rewards for things that aren't kill related are very nice I do think that people will chase them, fomo is strong and real in the modern gamer.

[barren rapids]

don;t call out my fomo like that

[cinder nova]

Think its a good idea and if the ribbons were weighted score wise dependent on what they are for example you could incentive revives or healing or repairing or even objective capturing

I think this would be a great way to encourage and reward ways of play that aren't kill dependent without having to change the balance of the game any further

[tawdry salmon]

In the perfect implementation literally everything that can be done in this game has a tier set of ribbons attached to it. Destroying trophies, capturing obj, placing rallys, destroying rallys, destroying vehicles, spotting for friendly vehicles, etc. Anything that is currently tracked with an xp value now has a grindable reward set attached to it, the medal system works the same way as well just instead of lifetime numbers it goes after individual game records.

[cinder nova]

For sure I think it'd be an incredible addition for newer player and players that haven't hit max rank the only issue is for those people that have hit max rank there isn't much incentive to play for these ribbons, but I'd have no idea on the solution for such a thing

[tawdry salmon]

The dynamic rank system is the chase for max players. I'm prestige 10 level 200 and have been for quite some time, with this system added I now have to grind for at least 90% of these medals/ribbons in order to be considered a 5star general. Along with doing all this I still need to perform well in every single match I play in order to maintain this rank. It keeps every game interesting, I can make a seperate post about that system to go into much more detail about it unfortunately just the general idea is in the text file currently.

[tidal ibex]

If you tie ribbons to cosmetics then yeah, it could incentivies that more.
Fashion is the true end game.
But that would require skins of good quality achivable by not getting kills. This may be controversial among this community.

[tawdry salmon]

mute and ignore. if shit is tight and other people are getting it they will bitch and moan but still be grinding for it on the back end. people will always complain about everything, chasing their approval is worthless. make something cool and the majority will enjoy the game and experience. the most miserable will always be the loudest, doesnt mean they are the majority.

[cinder nova]

Plus I think it'd please a lot of players if you could get a sense if what sort of player u were with depending on their outfit which could be linked to revives or heals or something like that, plus it would sort of flesh out a role for your character if that makes sense

It'd add a lot more individualism to the game which I think is always a good choice

[tulip dust]

the medal system works the same way as well just instead of lifetime numbers it goes after individual game records.

A menu that tracks PBs and a global leaderboard for PBs for this could be raelly cool. Like for example imagine a global leaderboard for the highest kill game on a certain game mode, along with a medal for placing in the top 10 or something.

[jade rover]

.

[autumn matrix]

Would also allow for non level methods for unlocking weapons and gadgets assuming the requirements are reasonable and in line with the item

[vital wasp]

I think there is multiple ribbon suggestions, though it well made. Just switch medals with ribbons and it would be fine for me

[echo schooner]

I was thinking of a Performance card could display things like this for the current season and their best achievement of this season under each category, under it is their rank in the corresponding Objective, Kills, and Support at the time.

Examples:
Kill category- 2012 Vector kills (Rank Sargent Major)
Support category- 22,990 Resupply score (Rank Sargent)
Objective category- 58 Flags captured (Rank Corporal)

Furthermore, after this score is added and converted to the players final rank. We can make things like rank boarders that go around the players 'Killed by' card or a nice medal displaying their rank beside their name when they kill someone. The sense of this is to basically show what type a player they are, and to display the rank as an accomplishment to them, and a 'Woah' factor to anyone who's died to that player because they're 'this rank'

Additionally, I do not think forcing a player into a type of 'Super solider' that has to have all three elements of kills, support, objective super healthy for the player base. So when looking at making a final score that determines the rank, i think it should only be a matter of extra dedication via play time that gives the player it.

Hypothetical Example:
Total score needed for highest ranking is 10,000 across Support, Objective, Kills.
A player that mainly plays for objectives could have something like this

Objective Score: 6,000
Kills score: 2,000
Support score: 2,000
= 10,000 total

[mystic grail]

I Said a total of 10 letters in caps

In a 200 letter message…

fuck this bot for real

[acoustic agate]

I think this suggestion shouldnt at all be tackled right now

Replayability doesn't come from having 20 different rewards, 10000 different skins, or new weapons or maps

it comes from making the gameplay less shallow then it is right now

Oki wants a game between BF and Squad? Vehicles are the solution entirely

[mystic grail]

I wholeheartedly support the idea of medals / ribbons in acknowledgement of a player’s actions. Give me a cool little flair for a double kill, triple, quad, and so on. Give me one for a shit ton of healing, reviving.
@acoustic agate
Rewarding the player and acknowledging their plays from sides of the game is a neat way to make them feel more appreciated and is a nice little psychology thing.

My parents aren’t proud of me but at least the game is!

[acoustic agate]

Idk, whenever I get imaginary numbers or whatever I am like: Whats the point

I play the game to have fun, not make imaginary numbers go up

Thats why Weapon Charms are so heavily downvoted

[tawdry salmon]

Two should be separate. One marks lifetime achievements while the other is something you can potentially unlock every single game. Collecting both is the static element of the dynamic rank, it's a very simple way to make it so every time you play a match you can chase a goal as well as see some type of progression happening at the end of the match even if your goal isnt met.

[tawdry salmon]

That's awesome that you have a healthy attention span and a well adjusted adult, unfortunately most gamers yearn to see number go up or down and that's why every popular video game has a system somewhere with that.

[tawdry salmon]

Just as a way to avoid gaming the system I think multiple factors needs to be taken into account. Kills should have the highest potential solo ceiling BUT you must be performing at a very elite level. It should be possible to one trick and get the highest rank but only 1-4 people max in a lobby should be able to pull it off while having really good games. For the people good enough to do it, it should finally give an additional feeling of satisfaction to go with every match. And with the system being made in a way where it can radically change every match there won't be severe punishment for having bad games. (Clarification for dynamic rank scoring) after 20 matches your average is let's say 120 DS. Max rank is 200 DS. If your first match after placement is 240 your new score is 180, it doesn't account for those previous 20 matches it just takes your current score and averages it between your most recent game if that makes sense. It will be highly fluctuating, there should be no feeling of hardstuck. If your number isn't changing it literally just means you are an incredibly consistent player

[tawdry salmon]

Hadn't thought about this aspect but actually brilliant. Basically an elite medic will have a uniform that one can easily identify same with engineer and support player so that other experienced players on the battlefield know what to expect from them. If I see someone in full god medic drip I'm not holding spacebar.

[slate wraith]

all of this sounds fucking 10/10. i'm 400 hours into battlebit rn, give me a reason to slam 400 more.

[digital pagoda]

The only reason I enjoy this game is the lack off SBMM. The introduction of it will be the death of the game to me.

[tulip dust]

He is not suggesting SBMM right now. Just a dynamic rank that reflects your performance.

SBMM would come in when the competitive mode is released

[tawdry salmon]

Sbmm is cringe and should only be in ranked game modes. This is just a secondary rank system that gives a visual number going up and down at the end of match for flood of dopamine and new set of goals to chase.

[digital pagoda]

Didn’t think he was. But it makes games so contrived.

[digital pagoda]

And that’s fine. Think class based progression would do something similar.

[tawdry salmon]

Yeah maybe but that's something that has been done in hella games. This system was only in one battlefield 20 years ago then never used again. It matches the theme of the game and can easily be segmented in seasonal type format to promote daily logins and sustainable long term health for the game.

[digital pagoda]

And I think the class based system is better, keeps players around longer, and has opportunity for players to display their preferred classes.

Grinding different classes for guns, rather than having them handed to you for classes you never play, was the majority reason why I played bf3/4 as long as I did.

[tulip dust]

Why not both?

[digital pagoda]

On top of vehicle gameplay

[digital pagoda]

As far as a player level and class level? That’s what I want lol

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1187052520393154670

[tawdry salmon]

This is a whole new can of worms that I'm not addressing with this concept. Your idea seems great and you should write something up about it, both of these things can exist together. The whole point of this thread is figuring out a way to make every match matter more than just being a big TDM and I strongly believe this incentivization path is an easy way to do it using things that already exist in game without restructuring or rebuilding the game. It is not targeting any class just making the game in its current state more replayable and rewarding.

[digital pagoda]

I totally misunderstood one of your posts, because I’m dumb (and drinking a bit). Sorry. Wasn’t trying to say that class based progression is better than this thread’s suggestion. Was trying to say it was better than the singular progression system in the game currently. Thought that’s what you were referencing here #1188077569225003029 message

My bad, again. Think the suggestion here is a solid idea.

[polar tartan]

Where's the tactfulness in that? Just personalized awards. The guys are already working on achievements. I think that would be similar to your suggestion.

But how would it affect tactics? Conditionally speaking, I'll just keep playing like I've been playing, and I won't care what rank I have if I play on kpm and kd.

Your post as an idea about personal progression-yes. Love it.

Your post as an amalgamation of simulation and arcade. How is that supposed to help?

If the idea is to get people to do their tasks in the game, not just run around. That's not a bad idea. Just as long as it doesn't turn into guys sitting in the bushes the whole game to fulfill their achievement for a medal. Sitting in the corner/bushes is not the same thing as milsim. I like the idea of different modes because combining the two, if not impossible, is very, very difficult. They are two different modes in their idea and principles. For example. I personally hate milsim because of the fact that it is very slow. Someone loves it and we will never agree on something average. Medals certainly won't help that

[slate wraith]

idk how you read the same things the rest of us did and mentally parkoured to where you're at.

[polar tartan]

"Currently the devs believe that the player base and core gameplay mechanics are unable to drift away from arcade aspects and become the game they originally had a vision for. They believe that a complete overhaul would be the only way for this game to be a hybrid between arcade and milsim and because of the massive infighting and belligerent hate towards any of these changes they have abandoned this idea and believe that keeping the current game full arcade and making a mode full milsim is the only option. While I do like the idea of a milsim mode I do believe that the current game can still be made more tactical and in line with their original vision without any changes to movement, time to kill or existing mechanics in the game. " - is literally the first paragraph.

Progression is great, but I'm confused about the motivation for such a proposal as described in the 1st paragraph.

Forgive me if I'm being too meticulous

[gaunt pollen]

its a good idea you could also make achievements for each medal in steam. so its a win win for people witch like there steam and in game showing

[tawdry salmon]

Currently there is no dopamine feedback loop at all for playing for the win aside for a 50% win bonus, there is no incentive to try and do new playstyles aside from chasing kills. If you now have cosmetic incentives to try new things outside of your comfort zone you may discover a new way of playing that allows you to enjoy the game. Once you hit max rank that 50% xp win bonus is meaningless but if you are going for a Ribbon that is about winning games you will care more. Obviously this does not apply to all players but the idea is opening new branching pathways that are currently not incentivized in anyway and making it more than just simple steam acheivements. Add in that seeing number go up and number go down is one of the most driving incentives for modern gamers if that number goes up more when winning you will want to win more, its just little things that are not currently in the game at all and its more than just simple acheivements, it makes it so every game you play has some type of impact. The best example I can give is I currently do not give a shit about tanks but if there is a medal for destroying tanks or getting kills near an objective with a tank I will play around tanks. I believe the biggest issues in this game stem from the fact that nothing in the game matters at all aside from killing things, giving value to other facets of the game should as a byproduct increase teamplay and other things that currently have 0 value. I hope that explains it better to you, you may think this is a reach but even a small meta shift can snowball into something else.

[broken idol]

All of this is a great idea. The medal system is sorely needed to keep player engagement and add onto the unlock/achievement system that will be in place. It might not be something players target, but at least you keep that tiny hit of dopamine every time you get 7 kills with a carbine, DMR, pistol, etc; every time you blow up two vehicles, and so on so forth. You add this to the backend for a personalized end of round screen, and now you've got a bit more engagement for the map voting process since people might want to stick around rather than just get up and take a break. You also get new methods of engagement to add to weeklies, dailies, monthlies, careerlies, etc. The possibilities are endless considering all of the data that is probably being recorded for each round; offensive captures, kills while capping, defensive bonuses for killing enemies, repairs, heals, and so on so forth.

You can carry this over to personalized player experiences and class unlocks too, tying overall class XP to a medal system and skin unlock system. You can reward players for using all of the "traditional" weapons for each class (LMG for Support, Bolts for Recon, etc); each class can have it's "home" tree of weapons which then gives a chance for further rebalancing a la BF. There could be rewards for hitting 1k on all bolts for example, or 2k, etc etc.

The BF2 rank system that's been discussed is a great idea, because it allows for players of all hour counts to be on the leaderboards. Currently if you're top100, you're not going away on the leaderboards; which means its an insane grind for any skilled new players to get on those tabs. You're competing on the kills leaderboard to get to north of 60k, the vehicles destroyed is at 3k, etc etc. Assuming the algorithm is balanced correctly, it'd give an equal footing for new and upcoming players to compete with the snoozns, wallaces, k's, and other top tier players out there (sorry if I didn't list you). Maybe the availability of those ranks can be locked to prestige 5 and higher or something, but it gives further engagement and incentivizes players to stick around for more than just number go up.

I've currently hit prestige 10, level 200; unlocked every F U canted sight, legacy skins, and am top100 in almost every category on the leaderboards. So is the only thing left for me to do is just play the game and grind for golds?

Also, a medal/ribbon tracker would be great to see in soldier/career. Logged into BF3 battlelog to see what my old count looked like.

[kind arch]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1182086355078098996

This is pretty similar to what I recommended as well. The only thing I might disagree with is the "dynamic ranking" system. It kind of just sounds like asking for SBMM without calling it that (which is fine). Like, I'm all for mmr ranking systems, but leave that for a dedicated ranked mode imo. This game is so out of your control I think that aspect of this wouldn't be a good change. Having an overall career rank that goes up like it does currently, with bonuses given by unlocking ribbons, medals, etc that can be displayed would be better for a game of this nature

I think you can combine BF4 and Gears 3's medal and ribbon systems into something truly special here. Overall idea has a vote from me

[tawdry salmon]

The dynamic rank doesnt effect your matchmaking at all it just gives you a number based on your performance and will be highly fluctuating on a game to game basis just another incentive to try for those that want to try. It literally has no ramifications on matchmaking like sbmm just a different number that is dynamicly changing unlike your account level which just stops at p10 level 200. Its a simple and easy way to make the game matter in a way that it doesnt currently.

[kind arch]

Sounds like sbmm/mmr man

It's just not for matchmaking lol

Just sounds like a mildly frustrating ranking system since it has no bearing on matchmaking

It's literally just ranked without ranked essential, kind of strange

[tulip dust]

sbmm and mmr both effect matchmaking by definition. What he is suggesting does not.

[mystic grail]

It’s level but with extra steps

[tulip dust]

Its level but you have to keep playing well to keep your rank up.

[mystic grail]

But “well” would be defined as what? An actual system like this would need to knowingly adjust your “rank” by evaluating how well you did with people of similar rank which in this game I feel is just outright impossible.

Getting high kills and objective caps isn’t enough of a margin to determine “oh yeah this players number should be higher” in order to accurately reflect if they’re good or not

[tulip dust]

He explains quite thoroughly what he wants out of the system in the original post. I think its supposed to be similar to battlefield bad company 2's system.

[mystic grail]

Maybe in the future but right now I don’t see a reason for it when the core identity of the game is at question.

[broken idol]

for the uninformed: https: //battlefield.fandom.com/wiki/Battlefield_2_online_ranks

and here are some examples of the badge requirements

There is no SBMM/matchmaking requirement, since the basics of these systems would be a proprietary algorithm that factors all overall gameplay stats for the month or week (KPM, KDR, SPM, revives, top scores, MVPs, and so on) and then award the top players of that algorithm with a rank for the month.

You still play "normally", it's just that unlocks are tied to that system. There may be only 2 or 3 Four Star Generals for the month for example, and that's it, but everyone will probably see those weird looking rank symbols if they hold tab and look at the top of the scoreboard, or at the end of round screen during the top objectives, kills, revives, score columns. BF2 was the first game to introduce the global rank progression system in online play that has been common place since 2005 and every game that's copied it since has watered down the original intent of that system since it's just become number go up. Cosmetics didn't exist back then, only unlock tokens for new weapons, so DICE had to keep player engagement someway.

[tawdry salmon]

the core identity of the game has been defined already as an arcade game with a milsim mode coming in the future. thats it, full stop. all this system does is add more depth to the arcade mode and provide additional content to keep the game's playerbase alive and healthy for a prolonged period of time. the whole point of the dynamic rank is to make it so every match you play has value, matches have literally 0 value currently. if you are doing anything besides playing team death match you are literally role playing as a soldier, which is great but reserved for such a small portion of gamers. if you make a system in game that turns this roleplay into actually playing the game. the entire game gets so much more depth with this addition. games need no life freaks to maintain a healthy player base and not drift into irrelevancy this system provides those people with infinite content that they can chase without having to change a single thing in game already. i think the word rank scares you and haven't read the entire text document attached to the post and thats completely fine so i will reiterate one last time: this isnt sbmm, this is a never ending content supply that adds DEPTH to the game by providing tangible and dopamine rewards for trying new playstyles outside of your comfort zone.

[tawdry salmon]

its a secondary level up system that is reflective of your skill not your time played like the current level is. its much more rewarding than just mindlessly farming xp. the people who acheive the highest rank will be consistent in their performance across every match they play no matter the skill level of others in their lobby and the great part about this is that bad players will have the same feeling because of how volatile the system is even just performing well for 3 games could give you the highest rank. you could immediately proceed to lose it but at least you know what it felt like and have something to chase. this concept is incredibly foreign to anyone who hasnt played it before but its an incredibly easy thing to implement that adds infinite replayability to a game that desperately needs it

[slate wraith]

reminds me of the halo 3 ranked system tbh now that i'm looking at this again, that shit was great

[kind arch]

It's using the systems of mmr and sbmm, but just applying it to your personal level and not comparing it to others. I was using the terms because that's what it is. It's sbmm and mmr systems without matchmaking. It's a ranking system without any comparison to others.

It's basically making the game ranked lol

[kind arch]

With 200 players in a lobby I feel like this'll just promote methods of play that boost score, kpm, etc. Not necessarily the most fun or skillful play. Some people will be able to reach the top with pure skill, I just don't think that'll be the majority for it

Like, sitting back in a tank and sniping every game can get you a ton of kills and score with no deaths practically, but is that really skill?

[autumn matrix]

It's skill based matchmaking without the matchmaking

So we're adding skill based? Awesome

[kind arch]

Yee

Skill based exp I guess

[autumn matrix]

If it's cosmetic it's just skill based

No exp

[kind arch]

Also tbh, if I reached the highest rank I wouldn't wanna play anymore if I'd lose it with one loss outside of my skill

[autumn matrix]

No matchmaking

[stoic condor]

what a fuck this shit suggestion again

[kind arch]

That's what I'm saying, it's not skill based lol

Like, what determines skill in this game at the end of the day? Having 200 kills every match but you always somehow lose?

Having 1 kill and 200 deaths but you always win?

50 kills, 10 deaths but they're all in a tank at the back of the map

[autumn matrix]

That's the fun part

You get to like

Choose

[kind arch]

100,000 score but you just revived people all game

My point is this system seems pointless

Like it doesn't seem like it actually means anything

[autumn matrix]

If you want to optimize your fun out you do you

[stoic condor]

bot

[autumn matrix]

Some people aren't basic bitches tho

[kind arch]

Idk, it just doesn't sound fun to me personally. You argue it's more rewarding, but to me it just seems like an annoying pointless rank that just tells me I suck when I decide to play differently

And if it fluctuates wildly, what's even the point

[autumn matrix]

Literally read into it in the exact inverse

[kind arch]

Alright I'll read it again, I am known for my lack of reading comprehension

[autumn matrix]

A system that rewards alternate styles of play that aren't only kills would in fact let you play differently

That's the point of having medals and ribbons

[kind arch]

Yea idk, sounds like a dmc style meter type of thing almost lol

[tawdry salmon]

So because you can't grasp the concept you are reaching for the one that you already know and are comparing it to that and that's fine, the post clearly explains it will be a combination of multiple factors of things that are already tracked with the emphasis being one tricking easily boostable things wouldn't put you at the highest rank. I'm sorry you don't understand it and don't want to read things I'm glad to see that some people don't understand it tho because everyone so far has been able to grasp it so it helps to know that it needs to be clarified at an even slower level for everyone to grasp it.

[kind arch]

Now I just kind of wanna be an asshole lol, but lemme reread it again again

[stoic condor]

@tawdry salmon there are bigger problems with the game than medals

[kind arch]

Yea, so basically it's a combination of a bunch of different scoring methods into an overall rating across multiple matches

Like, it's not hard to understand

The medals also play into it and such ofc

But at the end of the day, it's just a method of determining skill and that's the problem I mainly have with it. It's just a strange match to match rating system? I don't think it'd be bad, but I don't think it'd be good either. I personally wouldn't like it I'm pretty sure, but you do you

[tawdry salmon]

But apparently it is because you are either an expert fisherman that has caught the biggest bait and I commend you for it or because you have never played a system like it you can't understand how it works and keep comparing it to things that dont exist.

[kind arch]

Huh???

Sbmm and mmr exist. This is just a form of determining skill through various factors

Like it's not that complex or new lol

It's a cool implementation, but it's not like wild to understand

I'm not saying it affects matchmaking or anything

I'm just comparing it to similar systems

[tawdry salmon]

The fact you keep using this term when it's not that is the problem you're being willfully ignorant at this point and I am now convinced you indeed are a fisherman. Excellent work

[tawdry salmon]

Now this is easily identifiable bait, be more like lostmixup

[kind arch]

Do you not know what sbmm and mmr are?? I use sbmm because not every sbmm system uses mmr, some use elo etc. Mmr is a method of telling player skill between matches I'm pretty sure

I literally said sbmm without matchmaking to clarify I meant the skill estimation systems

I then compared it to the style system of dmc because its purpose is similar

Like, I don't think I'm being stupid here man. I reread it like 4 times. You're taking various factors and boiling them into a cosmetic rating that can fluctuate wildly between games to encourage players to do better

[tawdry salmon]

Both of the systems you are talking about emphasize the quality of the lobby and compare you to a number that is determined by the average playstyle of the entire player base. This system has an objective standard and only compares the player to themselves. That is the giant fundamental difference, there has only been like 3 games that have used this type of system before if you have not played any of them it is very hard to grasp and like I said I understand why you would compare it to something you have played before I don't blame you. Merry Christmas

[tawdry salmon]

This is your closest comparison so far while still not the same this is in the same family to an extent. You don't want to be super stylish sick?

[stoic condor]

okey

[kind arch]

I don't get the hostility here man. If you can't explain the idea to someone that's your problem. I'm legit trying to understand it. You're saying it compares it to itself. That's fine, I get that and have understood that since the beginning - my b if that wasn't clear. My point still stands though regardless of that. It's an arbitrary score that goes up or down depending on your performance. I'm not saying it compares to others or anything like that.

It seems like there will be a set amount of ranks that you can go up and down between. Do "well" and the score goes up. Do "worse" score goes down. My main question was what's the weighting of things for this system? Are medals worth the most? Kpm? Spm? Obj score per minute? Style ranking in DMC is there to push you to a certain playstyle, that's it's primary purpose I feel like - to push you to play in a way the game rewards you for

I personally don't like that for this game, the idea of being pushed into a certain playstyle. That's my personal problem with it. It's not a bad idea overall or anything

So if you want to keep a high rank do you have to play the way the game wants you to? This is essentially my question.

That's why I like every part of the suggestion except the last part. I still gave it a "yes" from me overall lol

Oh also, getting 90% of the medals sounds kind of impossible. But I guess that's the point lol

I get that you're not supposed to like stay at the top all the time either. I just feel like eventually people will just ignore it - especially when just going for wins

[tawdry salmon]

Sorry if I came off as hostile wasnt the intention I couldn't tell if you were confused or trolling me so was trying to navigate those lines. You bring up very valid points and I do believe construction an algorithm that calculates these things will be something that might take an iteration or two to perfect. If the system is made perfect multiple playstles will be able to achieve highest rank, the only thing I would think you could one trick to the highest level is kills and in that scenario I would say the minimum would be 5kpm for a match something that is possible for only a handful.of players to do consistently currently. One tricking other gameable facets of the game would most likely be impossible to reach max rank since they are gameable but if the factors and their weight are made clear to the player I see no problem. An important thing to note with this is that not everyone should be able to maintain highest rank because then it is truly a meaningless system. Steverec mentions in his post a rough example of the weighted system because he had the same concerns as you of forcing the player into playstyles and if implemented correctly people shouldn't be forced it should just give them an additional reward for when they perform well in a match. I'm not very good at math so can't make up a rough algorithm at this point.

[kind arch]

All good, don't need any math or anything atm.

Maybe it could be split into multiple rank ratings that average into one?

I think that would be fun for everyone overall. I guess transparency of info would be what I'm asking for there

Like if you're repairing and healing all game your support rank would be really high, but maybe your assault rank (kills, kpm) would be low

[tawdry salmon]

Yeah that's what Steve mentioned as well. He used how league does things as an example another example in a shooter would be how the finals shows your support score combat score and obj score at the end of the match. It would have to be something like that as well. 100% agree it needs to be fully transparent and made clear to the player how it is doing it. In battlefield 2 the system was called points per hour and all players directly understood how to make the number go up or down and that transparency is what made it so fun and grindable because you felt in control of your situation.

[kind arch]

That could work. I think the element of "skill", rating, or rank should be taken out of it. Instead just being a number that goes up and down that you can look at and compare to others. I think it could be pretty fun for everyone then. Someone could be like "look, I've got xxxx points per hour just c4ing people" but not feel worse at the game cause there's no rank assigned. I think that's what I was stuck on as well.

I now like the idea with some tweaking

[tawdry salmon]

Yeah the medals are more of a pull it off one time in a game reward not like halo medals where you are getting them every game for flashing lights in screen.

[kind arch]

Ah I was thinking of like bf4 ribbons and stuff, not like gears and bf4 medals I guess. My b

[tawdry salmon]

Glad we could talk through it together, not a problem at all this is my first time making a real suggestion in here so this has been helpful conversation to have. I don't like typing in discords or forums anymore but I very much enjoy this game and want it to have a long lasting life so am very passionate about the subject. I got a thousand hours I want to be here for at least a thousand more.

[kind arch]

60% of people here are flamers lol, we get it don't worry

[tulip dust]

What are the bigger problems with the game?

[stoic condor]

nothing, all good 👌 need milsim, medal, shotgun, nerf movement, eac the best

[slate wraith]

wait you want to nerf movement, and add shotguns? you really want gameplay to be divided between camping with dmr and camping with shotgun dont you...

[stoic condor]

absolutely no!

[tulip dust]

What?

[strong dome]

Brother can you respectfully not turn every suggestion into “movement bad! Bbr should be like battlefield!” even when movement isn’t being mentioned?

We’re trying to get people to play objective here

[stoic condor]

alright alright

[tulip dust]

@tawdry salmon What do you think about giving players the ability to turn off their rank for however long they want? I feel like that would be a pretty important feature for people who either dont care about their rank altogether and for people who do want to try super hard to maintain their rank for a few games.

[kind arch]

I think just tracking your "highest score reached" might be enough for that

If the changes discussed above are done to make the system rewarding for everyone, then high scores are tracked for each category, I think it'll make everyone happy even if they can't turn it off

[tulip dust]

I dont know what you mean.

Im talking about the dynamic rank system that wallace suggested.

[kind arch]

Yea, it's based on a score system

I'm saying instead of a rank a high score system might work better? Maybe not

[gaunt pollen]

?

[tawdry salmon]

Yeah a simple UI feature to toggle on and off should be fine if people are getting rank anxiety from it. In theory it shouldn't be that big of a concern because getting ribbons and medals are a static part of calculating your rank, like even if your dynamic score is at the highest level if you don't have the amount of ribbons and medals unlocked for it you still will be soft capped. Ideally the process of earning all the ribbons and medals should make people good enough to have a high rank without giving them any anxiety. But I am super aware that just the word rank can stress people out so if they want it disabled nothing wrong with that.

Example: There are 100 ribbons, 100 medals. 5 star general would need to have earned 80 ribbons and 80 medals plus having a dynamic score of 150. The idea is that if people figure out how to game the system for earning medals and ribbons they are still locked behind something from being the highest rank. Also prevents brand new accounts from immediately being there as well. It should basically be an infinite content glitch with lots of different paths to chase.

[gaunt pollen]

its a good idea because it adds more things that people might want to unlock as time goes by because some people that like to play the game likes to have something that is unlocked for the amount of work they put in.

[echo schooner]

Just to clear up my example for you. You could be lowest rank in kills, but highest rank in objective and support. Overall, the rank that gets displayed will be the max rank, because you make up for your kills with objective and support gameplay.

[tawdry salmon]

Also just to clarify chasing the highest level of this system is like giga end game. It's more so the game has content even when you've done literally everything else. The other systems in place and stuff already being added in upcoming updates are all great stuff for new/moderate players but don't do much for the prestige 10 level 200s. There aren't many of them currently but as time goes on that number will continue to grow and giving that most dedicated player base a fun variety of ways to keep playing the game is essential to keeping the game healthy for a long time

[tawdry salmon]

Looks like some of this stuff will be implemented as gun charm challenges hopefully there is a way to tie it all together.

[kind arch]

Very good

[modest star]

will we get cat charm ribbon

[tawdry salmon]

praying for end game content in 2024 🙏

[gaunt pollen]

very good

[tawdry salmon]

deargodplzgivemeanewdopaminefeedbackloopicantgrindgoldcamosanymore

[mystic grail]

"We've heard your feedback and added diamond camo, awarded for 25k kills. We hope you enjoy!"

[tawdry salmon]

[modest star]

I hope this happens before buff badger

[forest hare]

Let's shoot for 2025 big guy 👍