#Replace squad spawning with teamwide rally points.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

supple timber
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Squad spawning discourages teamplay elements like resupplying and reviving due to how easy it is to immediately respawn in or right outside of the same fight. It also makes the ebb and flow of a round less coherent since anywhere a player is standing is a potential spawn point, which is especially bad for new players. The benefit of squad spawning is that you aren't ever locked out of a fight because your squad leader hasn't placed a rally point anywhere or because they put it down 1000 meters away from any objective so that they could respawn while sniping.

I think that a good solution would be to turn rally points into teamwide, global spawns with the same fast timer as current squad spawns. In exchange, squad spawning should be removed from the game. Placing rallies should cost points distinct from those used by fortifications and supply drops so that someone building a super fob can't lock anyone out of placing a spawn. Squads should begin the round with enough points to place at least one rally point. An option to switch from global and squad only rally placement would probably be appreciated by some people, although there should probably be contextual restrictions to prevent situations where every squad would lock theirs.

The game should also ideally make it readily apparent to a squad leader whenever they don't have a rally point placed despite having the points necessary to do so. Some sort of HUD notification for SLs that's maybe not possible to miss would probably do the trick. A system in place to switch out SLs if one isn't using the system or is griefing would also probably help.

I'm sure there are issues with this but I have preferred player placed, static spawns over teammate spawning in any form that I've seen it in.

analog crater
supple timber
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Similar idea, this is a lot more extreme though

cold barn
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I think it shouldn't be tied to squad points and instead an item you deploy. also a throwable 'flair' for a spawn point that expires after 20 seconds. could be an alternative for classes taht can't 'build' the flag.

marble lily
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people can spawn off of others tho so no point of the flair

cold barn
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if squad spawning was removed, then yhou couldn't?

supple timber
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Planetside 2 had a flair type thing that would up being extremely exploitable, basically made the larger spawns irrelevent. Deployable might also work OK but I'm not sure how well without a dedicated leader class, and again because of the flair type thing in Planetside 2. They eventually fixed the exploit thing by making it so you only had one if you spawned with it, which made it really awkward to use if you wanted to move your spawnpoint someone else or switched squad leaders

naive lichen
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shit i was typing up an essay-length What If We Had Different Spawn Beacons thing but I'll post it here in a minute to keep the similar threads condensed

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my idea is splitting the rally points into Squad Rally Points and Team Rally Points but its similar enough that i wont post another thread

naive lichen
# supple timber Squad spawning discourages teamplay elements like resupplying and reviving due t...

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I don’t spawn on spawn beacons much. In my experience, if I notice they’re available, they’re either at the edges of the map for recons in the squad/somewhere else not useful for an objective, or I’m spawning on one by myself semi-close to an objective we already own or are taking by the time I’m spawning on it.

For the ones I DO see in useful spots, I’d spawn on them a lot more if I could do it without holding space for 2 seconds, compared to insta-spawning on a squadmate 40 meters from the beacon and arguably in a better spot for flanking or attacking an objective.

From the perspective of somebody USING rather than PLACING a spawn beacon...I’m not dead enough to use them effectively and frequently. And when I am, I’d almost always much rather spawn on one of my other squadmates on or near the flag for reasons outlined above.
Going the other way though (letting ANYBODY spawn on a beacon no matter the squad) would absolutely kill the flow of spawns and make beacons ridiculously overpowered/more important targets for the enemy than the objective the beacon is near that you’re trying to take.

naive lichen
# naive lichen 1/2 I don’t spawn on spawn beacons much. In my experience, if I notice they’re a...

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My idea (finally) is split the beacon into a Team Rally Point and a Squad Rally Point.

The Squad Rally Point would have features designed to increase their squad effectiveness without making them OP.
My idea is it would be instant spawn (or a shorter time second instead of 2) and still have infinite spawns. That would allow it to be both more useful to the squad leader (“these people might actually use it if I put it down)” and to the squadmates using it (“I don’t have to wait to spawn here” and/or “spawning here won’t be useless to me”. It’s already silent and effective to spawn on a teammade near a beacon rather than the beacon itself in most situations, so the regular squad rally needs a buff to inceitivize use. I don’t think that makes it OP but if anyone has an idea lemme kno.

The Team Rally Point could have X number of spawns in X amount of time (ex. 30 spawns or 2 minutes [I made those numbers up completely dont take them seriously] to allow the beacons to actually function as something useful for the team as a whole, without massively changing the flow of the game until somebody manages to break through the suddenly-30-player-strong-wall and blow the beacon up.
That might let the beacons be a good Addition/Alternative to squad spawning without doing away with it.

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(maybe make them more expensive too to discourage spamming them but idk)

cold barn
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As it stands every player in the game is a flag, so making it so that flags could be spammed would be less OP than the current iteration of spawning.

naive lichen
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Tru you had a point there that I hadn't thought about

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I was more thinking on what could be added to spawn beacons to make them more viable as opposed to what could be changed from the other spawn methods we have , but I don't disagree that a change on that end could be good

cold barn
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if you removed squad spawning and made flags buildable/ubiquitous you'd end up with gameplay that centers around defending flags. The best parts of this game are when the team is focused on the same objectives together. If you punish players indirectly for not protecting spawns, you end up with more teamwork. Running from your base is annoying has fuck, hence squad hopping when your team dies.

naive lichen
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I just had different ideas for spawning/spawn beacons and figured I'd put them in the latest "change the way spawning works" thread to add to it

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we definitely agree on beacons currently not being used effectively

shut panther
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garrisons and rally points a la HLL?

rotund maple
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I wonder how this would play out alongside the TTK updates. Could lead to clearer battlelines like OP said

polar prawn
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my man do be cookin' some of the best spawn mechanics ever

i really hope they take this into consideration, imo one of the reasons why this game feels like a big TDM and not a battlefield style tactic shooter is the spawn mechanics

fiery rampart
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Yeah small problem.. SLs don’t do shit as SL even when the game makes it super obvious what they need to do on the most basic level (place relays and give orders on where to defend/attack whilst working with the team to do that)

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Also what’s stopping them from just marking 2 points and not playing obj like we have right now? Nothing. You want this, SL/squads are gonna need a rework (as in they can’t be the only one placing relays and issuing orders) so it doesn’t become a cluster fuck of people only spawning on 1-2 places on the map, and battles being short lived as a result of that. And as a result of that result... as Orphan said, everyone turtles and nobody pushes, leading to very stalemate-like gameplay. In practice this might sound good, but the reality is nobody who’s trying to push wants to turtle, and if they do.. chances are they’re already doing so as support/recon, where they benefit from doing so. So this only benefits the people who enjoy “defense” and not those who are actively trying to plant bombs/cap enemy points/etc. (which just trades one problem out for another.)

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“But just request SL”

Yeah not possible to take it if the current SL just marks an objective then goes back to being a headless chicken with intended methods.

shut panther
fiery rampart
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That would be a better alternative. My point is: current system would not mesh well with “remove squad spawning” because most SLs just suck at SLing/don’t care for it

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If this was not the case and SLs on average were actually “team players/leaders” (or whatever that equivalent is in roblox terms), you’d see a lot more relay placement across the modes where it’s enabled

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and more use of objective marking/the enhanced ping system… but let’s be honest with the enchanced pings: normal pings just do the job and do it well enough to not warrant the extra “defend/attack/etc.” imo

shut panther
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it was more in adenium because we were talking about a whole change to spawning as a whole. Team wide spawners instead of squad for SL(HLL garrison), squad gets the less expensive spawner which is more like a HLL rally(temp and not really meant to last long), APC and Transport Helo spawns anywhere instead of near a point. and so on, there were numbers and the like but that was the gist, though I may have missed some details.