Make this game more casual

[cobalt condor]

You CANT make roblox battlefield a milsim, add meme guns like the zip 22 or something thats funny, add meme player uniforms and skins. Just bring back the vibe man. Right now the games future aint looking good with these changes VC is barely being used, the only way to solve this is to make the game friendlier, people are more aggressive in a milsim environment than in a casual one.

[cobalt condor]

also why is this game full of so many tryhards, add a matchmaking system at this point

[green halo]

Game doesn't even have enough players to do match making for 127

[smoky linden]

This is the unique feature of the game

[wary hill]

Wouldnt people be less aggressive in milsim? Milsim is slow paced, tactical. Currently it's arcady.

[smoky linden]

Enough people during non working hours

[cobalt condor]

people are confused by the contradiction, for one there are delta force airsoft sniping larpers and on the other side there are basement dwelling sweats. this game has a lack of identity and that kills the vibe and just makes the game less fun compared to the launch tbh

[smoky linden]

There are exceptions, the Red Orchestra series, insurgency

[smoky linden]

It seems that you think the essence of this game is hardcore oriented

[kindred lark]

The least casual part of this is the run and gunning

Look at games like intruder or the more casual squad servers, people are memeing around people are doing jokes and funny things even in a milsimmy environment

We don't have anything close to a milsim situation here, and that doesn't mean the game is casual, on the contrary

The people that I see talking the most are the ones that are hanging back a bit and taking their time over speed demoning

Milsim =/= hard-core
And most importantly
Arcade =/= casual

You wanna see people actually talking with each other and having fun with voip?
Reduce the emphasis of speed and run and gunning
There is no time to talk ingame atm, when people are preoccupied flanking and most interactions can't last more than 3 seconds before combat breaks out again

[smoky linden]

RisingStorm2: Vietnam fits this rhythm

[kindred lark]

Rising Storm 2 turns people into fantastic voice actors

[smoky linden]

But it needs to be a little slower

[kindred lark]

Yeah, seen intruder?

That game nails inter team voice chat

[cobalt condor]

yeah i agree i hate the tryharding in this game but making it too slow would be a bad idea besides the reason i dont like the recent changes is because of the run and gun medic yeeters and all of that not having any changes and the game still is trying to be immersive, that just my opinion on the situation and all

[smoky linden]

Can you elaborate on it? I am not very good at English

[cobalt condor]

inter team means instead of voice chat with your friendly team mates you can talk to the enemy

as well

[kindred lark]

So intruder is a game where a team needs to invade a building and steal a briefcase, while another needs to protect it
Where it differentiates itself is by going very hard on the more milsim gun handling and movement
It makes it so not being sneaky can get you killed very fast, but you still need communicate, and all the vc is directional
Everyone starts whispering in that game, and sometimes you end up not knowing if you're whispering to a teamate or an enemy

[smoky linden]

Communication fraud is also a tactic

[kindred lark]

And then someone slips on a banana peel, you start laughing, and get a grenade thrown at you for revealing your position

10/10 experience

Like once was lying down behind the table in the room where the briefcase is, a guy was about to enter, he said "IF YOURE THERE, SPEAK OR U GAY"
And I just replied with "why, you single?"
I basically stunned the guy with words alone, I did die but it almost bought me enough time to win the round lol

Slowerish paced stuff is fantastic to incentivise voice chat, it just needs to have a bit of purpose to it

[smoky linden]

yeah，Communication fraud is full of fun

When PUBG first emerged, my friends and I often did this when forming teams, using area chat to influence enemies

But this game style does not conform to the rhythm of BBR

[kindred lark]

The rhythm of bbr can change
It's deep in early access

[smoky linden]

i know

The official now wants to transition in a relatively mild way, but they can't find the key points

The feeling it gives me is like this

[quartz niche]

True

Turn the game to full arcade

And if you want milsim then make a milsim mode built on top of the base game

[upbeat arch]

arcade != casual lol

[kindred lark]

The most try hard non casual part of this game is the arcade part rn, and that is most of the game

[upbeat arch]

and there are also barely any milsim mechanics that have an actual impact on the game rn

[kindred lark]

Exactly

[smoky linden]

I have finished reading the discussion you just had with a few of them

[quartz niche]

The new audio system 🗿

[upbeat arch]

is that a milsim thing tho

[quartz niche]

Yes

[upbeat arch]

i doubt it

there are very likely arcade games with similar features

[quartz niche]

What arcade shooter has muffling when being shot

[smoky linden]

In a sense, the official is more tactical than Activision
hahaha

[kindred lark]

Compare that to:

• the movement
• the lack of momentum(not even an arcade thing, just a unfinished thing)
• the emphasis on run and gunning
• the lack of any teamplay
• the weird spawning

This is more arcade than cod, and sweatier than phantom forces somehow

Have you seen how deranged phantom forces is? Bbr manages to outdo them

BBR has deeply arcade gunplay and movement that dictates the flow of rounds, with a few slower paced mechanics that have no impact due to how overshadowed by the arcade they are

The issue isn't the rest of the stuff that goes the way the devs actually want to go, the issue is the unfinished movement that stops even voip being used most of the time

[smoky linden]

There used to be some origins，When there is no limit on the number of broadsword landmines

[limpid sage]

I have always said it, the speed of movement DOES affect the game you want to have, in this case it affects negatively, slower will mean better positioning, more strategy and more communication with the team

[smoky linden]

The dynamic balance and rhythm of attack and defense are well controlled

Thanks to those silently working support soldiers

[pallid pilot]

Honestly I think the game needs more/better vehicle interactions and implementations. That would address a lot of problems. Teamwork, voice chat, squad play, playing roles, etc.
right now the game’s main appeal is it’s pretty decent gunplay, so people are going to abuse it to get as much dopamine as possible. Then you get flankers and run/gunners. Etc.

[kindred lark]

I remember when the game wasn't as sweaty before people starting going full maniac
It was nice to see folks actually talking to each other, using the compass to tell enemy positions and being incredible voice actors

[pallid pilot]

There isn’t role-based progression, and there isn’t vehicle progression. Big problems in my eyes.

[smoky linden]

yeah，in test

[kindred lark]

Yee

[limpid sage]

It was beautiful, it barely came out to EA, but it lasted just 3 weeks and everyone was already running around without further ado.

[smoky linden]

The current vehicle's survival ability is worrying and lacks suppressive power
In a game of 256 players, vehicles of this strength cannot serve as mobile fortresses for players to gather together.
And this is the least changed optimization method

[limpid sage]

I think that there are 3 main things that can mark a before and after in Battlebit if they are fixed, the class system that is currently ALL the same with few changes, the balance of weapons that most feel like submachine guns, that is, they only serve for short distances , and the movement that, as we mentioned, affects the positioning, strategy and communication of the team, but of course, go make the proposal to modify these things and you will see how the arcade players jump

[smoky linden]

The core of this issue lies in Oki's understanding of firearms and the current mechanism of armor

[limpid sage]

The only assault rifle that I see as such is the AUG A3, good damage, good distance, the AUG A3 is the perfect example of a good assault rifle

[smoky linden]

Why can't armor have exemption points, allowing bullets with too little power to hit without damaging armor and health points。
The current armor only exists as a one-time backup health value
There is an exemption value, and shotguns can also be released
In reality, shotguns cannot cause severe damage to armored targets unless they hit the head

[pallid pilot]

Short distance weapons is a must, or you will be dying from third parties you never saw (a la snipers) left and right. Go play a hardcore server if you want to know what that’s like.

[smoky linden]

AUG should be the strength that ak74 and m4 should have
Versatile across all distances, with strong performance in medium to close distances

[limpid sage]

Exact! that's the idea of assault rifles

[smoky linden]

The actual combat distance of this game is between 50 to 120 meters

[limpid sage]

And if unfortunately, you are either going for short distances or you are going for long distances, there are no medium distances in this game

[smoky linden]

However, the maximum applicable range of AK74 and M4 is around 50 to 80 meters

[limpid sage]

Yup

[limpid sage]

Or rather most assault rifles/carbines

[grizzled girder]

you can literally beam people at 100-150 meters with those guns

[smoky linden]

The dilemma lies in this, which makes me feel that the official has not yet determined what they specifically want to do

[smoky linden]

I am a player in the Asian server, breaking through the gameplay. After playing the entire game, the number of heads is basically above 100, with the best time being 170 heads.
The firearms in this game are even more powerful than you imagine

[limpid sage]

I've tried using the semi-automatic with these weapons at these distances, and they look like hitmarker weapons xd, they kill me before killing my opponent with how long the TTK takes at that distance

[grizzled girder]

just use full auto low recoil+ decent firerate

[limpid sage]

So why do we have a fire selector?

[limpid sage]

And also if assault rifles are going to end up functioning as submachine guns... wouldn't it be better to buff the submachine guns then and eliminate the assault rifle category?

[smoky linden]

Not everyone can find a good rhythm for manual and semi-automatic operation

[smoky linden]

Are you talking about ACR

[limpid sage]

As I mentioned, if assault rifles are going to work in the same way as submachine guns, it is better to eliminate the category and buff the submachine guns, xd

[grizzled girder]

you can use it but its not optimal when the weapon has low recoil

[grizzled girder]

the acr is another thing

its like a smg

[grizzled girder]

what are you talking about

[smoky linden]

My opinion is to add exemption points to the armor, so that the submachine gun can only attack the limbs and face to obtain a short ttk

And if the damage of the rifle is greater than that exemption value at close range, it will not be affected

[limpid sage]

You literally tell me what I'm talking about and you answer yourself... that assault rifles are more similar to submachine guns, only with more distance, and in reality they should be similar to combat rifles but with less damage ( as an example the AUG A3)

[smoky linden]

The impact of submachine guns on health has a special bonus on the unprotected torso

[limpid sage]

And here again we are looking for any type of explanation so that mechanics such as in this case the fire selector remain an ornament...

[limpid sage]

Exactly

Or making the bullet speed of submachine guns faster than assault rifles, for close combat.

[grizzled girder]

i was talking about the acr, its the only automatic rifle that is close to a smg

and right now its pretty good at every range, has good movility, decent damage, low fire rate

low recoil

[limpid sage]

But we return to the same thing, by maintaining arcade mechanics many other mechanics are lost.

[grizzled girder]

its the only automatic rifle that is like that

[smoky linden]

My understanding is slightly different from yours. He is a more versatile assault rifle, and his range of use is similar to that of an AUG. ACR lacks control over long-range moving targets compared to AUG, but is stronger in close combat

[grizzled girder]

the others are useless against an smg at close range

[grizzled girder]

are we even playing the same game?

[smoky linden]

The fixed target of 80 to 100 meters in ACR shooting is very enjoyable

[smoky linden]

yeah

[limpid sage]

I don't know about you, but as I told you, most assault rifles are literally submachine guns with greater range xd, and what sense does it make to make this category if you are going to use them the same as submachine guns, full auto?

As I mentioned, the best assault rifle is the AUG A3 because it is the one that truly does its job in this way.

[fossil quartz]

afaik the gunplay isn't complete. Hipfire recoil isn't a seperate stat and 'control' does nothing.

[limpid sage]

Of course, it is not complete, but from there to say that it is fine as the assault rifles currently are, being that they are submachine guns with greater shooting distance is something else.

[smoky linden]

hahaha，If you have been in melee for a long time, you may feel that the previous version of 416 is stronger because it is rare to use the AUG advantage range

[limpid sage]

I haven't tried the H&K 416, I got bored with the monotony of running and killing around the map before unlocking that weapon XD

[smoky linden]

But at the same time, the initial velocity of the 416 bullet effectively ensures its ttk within 50-80 meters

[limpid sage]

Bruh

[smoky linden]

UMP45, Victor, and PP19 cannot effectively control enemies 50 meters away, especially when they are moving

[fossil quartz]

they have faster ads and movementspeed, they preform better inside buildings due to those advantages. If you improved smgs range damage/velocity they would outperform rifles at medium range, which they used to do.

[smoky linden]

At least I can't do it

[limpid sage]

In effect, they "balanced" the submachine guns but now they are missing the assault rifles

[smoky linden]

The rear seat of 416 now gives it a relatively poor stroll at a distance of 50m, so you don't have to try it. Walking is like a circle

walk is ballistic dispersion
Translation error

[fossil quartz]

what do you mean? AR's lose smgs indoors but win outside. They win against dmrs indoors, but lose to them outside.

[limpid sage]

But remember, they also serve 100-150m ☝️🤓

[wary hill]

The gun roles are fine since SMG nerf imo

[limpid sage]

They should be weapons for medium distances, not a simple submachine gun nerfed in movement but buffed in distance

[steel ibex]

Anybody that kills me = try hard REEEEEE

[smoky linden]

In burst mode, it is unlikely to occur in the game
150m too long in the game

[fossil quartz]

smg = melee range, ar = short range, dmr = medium range, boltaction = long range

dev's have said as much, the stats indicate it too, dunno what else you need

[limpid sage]

That's why XD submachine guns should be for short distances, and assault rifles for medium distances

while DMRs are used for medium-almost long distances

In a lot of games, assault rifles are ideal for medium distances

[fossil quartz]

if you increase the effective range of those weapons you push out the higher range weapons, reducing your range of choices

[smoky linden]

AEK971 and AN94 in BF4 are exceptions

[wary hill]

Beyond 60m, AR is in a good spot currently. SMG has terrible ammo economy beyond 60m

[smoky linden]

Just unwilling, even though there is a armor mechanism, it cannot be used as expected

The advantage range of different weapons cannot be effectively distinguished within the same usage distance

On the post about what new weapon he wants, Oki said he doesn't consider it, it's the same anyway

Suggest that we change the appearance mod of our weapons ourselves

Making good use of existing dimensions can achieve better differentiation

Instead of thinking about what you're saying now, the assault rifle is just a large submachine gun

[fossil quartz]

I'm not sure i follow, are you saying you can't distinguish between being shot at with a dmr from an AR at 125m? or an smg from an AR at 60m?

[smoky linden]

None of them are, but rather the existing armor mechanism has not been utilized as I imagined

Since the official has the intention to adjust according to the realistic direction, there can be more aggressive weapon damage, after all, the armor mechanism provides a bottom line

[fossil quartz]

i think the armor system will be the last thing ironed out. If movement is getting modified it will have cascading effects that change how each weapon performs and consequently how armor would perform. Early access and all that.

if you're too aggressive with armor values and weapon damage type you end up with rock paper scissors systems, which I'd imagine he's trying to avoid considering this game was originally intended to be milsim-esque

[smoky linden]

I don't know the official opinion on modifying the mobile mode
Don't learn from the steady-state system on the loofah, even if you have a physical fitness system, leave enough room for two intense operations

[smoky linden]

This question has already been answered

[fossil quartz]

what the hell are you saying? lmao

[smoky linden]

But scissors, stone, and cloth are what I want

[fossil quartz]

dude if you run all your sentences through thesuarus.com people are going to have a hard time understanding you. I don't think the game was intended for hard countered classes like overwatch or LoL, can't speak for the devs though.

[smoky linden]

Also, I really like the MK20 now. I use accessories to increase the recoil of the first engine to 0.68 and then try to increase the aiming speed as much as possible

[median ridge]

I’m detecting a language barrier

[open minnow]

i thought "Control" was the time it took for the gun to be re-centered on target after recoil occurs

[median ridge]

No it apparently does literally nothing

[smoky linden]

Go home from work!

[jagged wadi]

It's a dead stat, same with accuracy

[wild cobalt]

TTK is too low, fite me.

[vital ermine]

Why try to make a game into something it isn't? Why try to make it appeal to casuals? Why not just go play a different game if you're unsatisfied?

[cinder glacier]

back to phantom forces

[zinc crest]

Honestly more of the features that could be implemented should be put to vote within the game itself to get better feedback from the whole playerbase.

[cobalt condor]

the whole point of the game was meant to be casual, from the death mic to the blocky graphics, this game isnt meant to be taken seriously, and why would you say ''go play a different game'' there are no casual shooters made by triple a titles or indie developers at the moment, im just saying that battlebit has a huge tryharding problem, where you are putting yourself at a massive disadvantage by not using medic and an smg like the ump45, i really think this issue needs to be solved, right now i am not having as much fun as i did with the game around launch.

[cobalt condor]

yes this as well, the discord isnt the entire playerbase so you cannot get a good demographic

[amber moat]

Engi with RPG can obliterate SMG medics if you have good internet and reaction time.

[cobalt condor]

yeah but still i dont want to be restricted to a play style to get rid of tryhards, it doesnt make it fun

[amber moat]

That playstyle also screws vehicles, and isn't doable aginst tryhards if you don't have at least some ping advantage. It can be very fun(at least for me) when it works though, and you still have a good amount of flexibility with your primary.

[gray jay]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[amber moat]

We need inertia or something such to prevent the nyoom SMG medic meta.

[cobalt condor]

ohh mate lets not make another inertia thread, we all know how that turned out

but still ive never seen a game with as ridiculous movement as this

[amber moat]

Although, funny enough, nyoom is basically the meta for elite teams(e.g. Delta force, source: Black Hawk Down) irl.

[cobalt condor]

i played unreal 3.0 with my friends on lan on a ps3 and it still didnt have as ridiculous movement.

[cobalt condor]

they dont spin around on the spot mid air and headshot people with an rsh 12 though

[amber moat]

Lmao no they don't, and that's also not the meta (at least not where I am), the meta gamer tryhard weapon of choice is the humble smg.

[cobalt condor]

they spend a mag on their smg on a 5 kill streak and then headshot a random dude with their secondary and run away

[amber moat]

Your servers got better tryhards than mine.

[ripe canyon]

make game more casual than it is? god damm if now (which is sniper paradise, run headless or dropshotting like COD) is not casual, i don't wanna see what casual actually means

[upbeat arch]

arcade != casual
milsim != hardcore

is something a lot of people don't get

[subtle atlas]

Medic SMG meta already got nerfed r u ok?

Assault is literally better for running smgs now, mp7 and ump45 included

Why do people still want medic to be a dedicated heal bot that just m1s medkit and struggles against fighting people who camp bodies in buildings? I thought this was a “let’s make the game casual” thread, not “lets make medic the most unfun class to play”

[cobalt condor]

im just pointing out air strafers and medics are the most common ones.

[subtle atlas]

My point still stands. “Heal bot” medic would effectively kill the class. Why run medic if I can’t fight back, but everyone can? Even if I have a medkit, bandages heal pretty quickly, so I could just play assault at that point (or support with ammo kits) and be a better healer overall

Like it or not medic needs to fight back, even with the medkit. Otherwise he might as well be the disadvantaged version of support

[cobalt condor]

bro im saying to completely nerf airstrafing, no class in particular just the movement doesnt fit with the ttk, thats what im trying to point out man, im not trying to say nerf medic. i dont understand how you got that conclusion

im stereotyping the average tryhard

[vital ermine]

#1185513255888760842 message

[cobalt condor]

yo dude i like milsim games as well, i do play arma and ready or not, but still this game at launch was essentially an arcade with armour and bleeding mechanics, so the playerbase is split, casual doesnt mean that i want air strafers, it means they need a nerf because rn this game isnt that fun to me.

A good comparison for a “milsim lite” game would be Flashpoint: Red River. Milsim-lite means to me that I’m not depending on trucks and rally points for spawning, I can spawn on squad mates. There’s no mobility kills for vehicles, there’s no artillery or mortars, weapons are pretty low-recoil and all our weapons are customizable without being locked to one type

I’m OK with fast movement since the TTK is so low

[cobalt condor]

I PLAYED THAT ON PS3 LAN BRO

but airstrafers are super annoying for me in my opinion

Jealous! Back in the day we were playing Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear in college. Planning out our room clearing strategies while in the same room was fun as fuck

[quartz niche]

Was that the ps3 arma?

I remember playing it

[cobalt condor]

yes

Yes

[vital ermine]

There was also one before that: Dragon Rising

[cobalt condor]

But then ArmA split off

[quartz niche]

Oh I played that one

Dragon rising

[cobalt condor]

There were a lot of cool “milsim-lite” games back in the early aughts that were bangers to play

Ghost Recon, Full Spectrum Warrior, etc

the reason i hate airstrafers is because i usually play on high ping matches, even on low ping matches they are so annoying, my hits dont register on high ping matches sometimes and they can run away easily

[cobalt condor]

i mostly played on the ps3 so i didnt really play older milsim lite titles but i do remember playing rainbow six vegas yk when rainbow six was a good game?

That and it just seems out of place - usually when you jump, you’re carrying your momentum in a single direction. Which in itself is a risk vs reward move if you’re jumping to change angles

[cobalt condor]

they can bandage and heal while doing that, nightmare

[cobalt condor]

R6 Vegas was awesome on the 360, just playing solo terrorist hunt and gunning down baddies. Also, the game allowed you to take a picture of your face and put it on your character!!

[cobalt condor]

i didnt take a picture but i did play solo but lan was the best option

Agreed, LAN was just best for anything, especially to vibe out with friends

ubisoft was competent back then

They had to be - putting out updates to fix broken games was not usually an option, and “games as a service” and DLC was either not a thought or in its infant stages

i also played unreal tournament* 3.0 on lan which has less confusing movement than this game... in an arena shooter.

Shoot, even the Titanfall series with its wall-running, grappling, fast-jump-sliding was more predictable and skill-based

and of course i played cod modern warfare

all 3 of the old ones

you could do splitscreen

if lan didnt work

It’s wild to see how that series went from COD: MW 15 years ago to today

im not spending 70$ on mw3

its worth a ps3

and mw its self

70$ in today’s money and the amount of time people play those games is sadly a deal

splitscreen needs to be brought back to consoles

Let me nab an ad for games I wanted when I was 13-15

$60 for Mario Kart back in the 90s had our parents working overtime

yeah games were expensive

but still well made

Truth

now games are still expensive but shittily made

Yeah, they withhold features for Season Passes, DLC packs, etc

i bought a gameboy advanced sp recently, two of them and hooked up the mulitplayer cable and played some doom on it

with my friend

idk how it was so fun man

Hell yes that’s that best portable Doom too

Get Advance Wars for it - I think you can link it but you can also pass it back and forth

yeah i sold them though

they were going for crazy money at that time

They’re definitely collectors items

I still got some videogame stuff from when I worked as journalist and went to E3 a few times.

[cobalt condor]

regular ones are like 70$ yet the ags-101 variant can be UP TO 400$ because of the very good screen on it

Back in 2005 and 2006 - my prized possession is the Zelda: Twilight Princess trailer that is on a Nintendo DS cartridge

wow

[cobalt condor]

I traded in my clamshell GB Advance for my 360 back then 😦

I still kick myself over that. I still have my original Mario Red DS at least. I’d kill for a GB Micro tho

Well shit, back to work. Thanks for the walk down memory lane of my long-ago youth haha

[drowsy drum]

What matches do you play in? All of my matches have been vocal as hell.

[kindred lark]

Most of what I hear is silence
And the occasional guy singing
I start 90% of the convos I'm in and most of them are with people I killed or people that killed me

I used to think it's a SA thing but NA isn't a whole lot better

[drowsy drum]

Because why speak when I could shoot?

In a FPS game

[kindred lark]

People are just too busy running to god knows where to do any talking- ah, fantastic, the actual answer

[drowsy drum]

Ah yes, the site is "god knows where"

My bad

[kindred lark]

Look, you want something, I want something else, you don't need to pretend like I'm wrong in thinking there's very little dialogue for that

[drowsy drum]

I like the funny VOIP, but that's not the only reason the game exists

[kindred lark]

I know, and again, you're misinterpreting what I said heavily

[drowsy drum]

Nerfing a playstyle isn't going to fix that

[vital ermine]

If by talking you mean actual game-focused, teamwork, call-outs, planning, stuff like that, then I agree with the others, the game is much too fast-paced for that. By the time you finish a sentence, the front-line has shifted and flankers have killed you.

[kindred lark]

Thank you, you put it better than I could

[drowsy drum]

Mhm, hence why the milsim/hardcore mode shouldn be geared to fix that

I'd at least HOPE it would be, given what you'd assume from those two words

[vital ermine]

pictured: lies

[wary hill]

In milsim: slower ttk, slower movespeed so people stick around longer

[drowsy drum]

Can't communicate shit if people don't use the "M" key

[drowsy drum]

Well quicker ttk, but yeah the idea is accurate

[wary hill]

So the ttk in milsim is faster than current state?

[drowsy drum]

Normally yeah, 2 shots to the head from pretty much any rifle should ideally kill you at the most

That's if they do rework armor

[wary hill]

I thought the longer kill time will bring more coop play for people want to survive and prob increase death time to promote less run and gun

And maybe medic will be more important for revives and heals in order to progress to capture points then supports can build walls

[drowsy drum]

Nope, it'll prioritize positioning and using your tools to your advantage which a lot of people already are terrible at.

And will probably lead to more "sniper OP" comments

[wary hill]

Interesting. I never played milsim so I'm just thinking about how run and gun can be changed to promote team cohesion

[vital ermine]

Milsims have higher TTK but slower movement speeds (and more consequences for death)

[drowsy drum]

Run and gun would just get you killed faster tbh

[limpid sage]

Look at the three things that would make for better teamwork is the balance and/or change of: classes, movement speed and weapons, but arcade players are only interested in running and shooting,

[wary hill]

Hm so keep ttk, increase respawn time, slow down movespeed.

[drowsy drum]

Because it fun to do to unwind

[limpid sage]

But you end up leaving aside many other mechanics such as local voice chat or vehicles

[drowsy drum]

Yeah, I'm hoping they transition a lot of TTKs to hardcore/milsim as is then adjust arcade more to be forgiving.

[drowsy drum]

Cool

That is a part of the game that does not affect shooty shooty

[vital ermine]

When I played Arma, I would play it with people who would play it for like 8 hours at a time. There would be long periods of rest, which would be waiting, building, planning, stocking up, preparing, which would be the "unwinding" periods, and then short engagements, which would be the heart-pounding moments.

[wary hill]

I current like the game in its current state to pick up and play a few rounds then stop. If milsim takes a long time to get to one point to the other, it would be played only on weekends or something

[drowsy drum]

Most people don't have 8 hours to commit to a multiplayer match

That's just the hard truth nowadays

[kindred lark]

I don't think milsim will ever get to that, but making actual moment to moment gameplay a tad slower is not even in the same ballpark

[vital ermine]

It was a persistent server, like a role-playing server where you can build a base and stuff, so that exact style of gameplay can't happen here, of course

[wary hill]

Let's say if support speed is the base speed

[kindred lark]

You could still join rising storm for 40 minutes and unwind, and rising storm was much slower than bbr casual ever will

[kindred lark]

Honestly I could see that
Having less variation between high and low speed with something like 94 being the base, 98 being just about as high as you can go, and 90 as low

[wary hill]

It wouldn't be fun to just run for 5 min for one kill unless there is more to it during that time period

[drowsy drum]

But I can also lean back in my chair and grind out kills for like 40m with some SoundCloud on.

Support is a level of slow that actively punishes it for no reason even with heavy armor

[kindred lark]

That wouldn't be 5 minutes at all, combat would still be chaotic, vehicles are still there
Making the overwhelming speed not overshadow the rest isn't making the game a glacier

[drowsy drum]

Not saying it needs to be lighting fast, but I'd like to reposition without having to take the scenic route for fear of getting obliterated

[kindred lark]

Literally everyone I know that started playing support and didn't try the rest thought it was more than fine
Like a l86 on heavy armor is what most games do speed wise, and I know people who got to level 35 like that, and then were actually mortified when I told them to get a mp7 and light armor

Like I was legit cackling then

[drowsy drum]

Yeah, because every other class isn't wearing bomb suits

[kindred lark]

Because "idk why you think this game is too fast dude, this is only slightly faster than bf4"
And then I look at them and it's heavy armor and a l86

I don't even mean exo tho

Just heavy lol

This game would be more balanced and flow better if you got the difference in speed between everyone and a player with a full heavy suit and an m4 and cut it In half

[limpid sage]

Hey brother check DM please hehe

[drowsy drum]

I also thought assault's movespeed was fine too until I tried medic light armor with a SMG like 200 hours later

[kindred lark]

🤨

[kindred lark]

That's the thing tho, it is
The issue isn't with the normal moving speeds

[drowsy drum]

It flows fine as is imo, people just don't want to use the tools LITERALLY IN THE GAME to make matches flow better.

Had a few matches in a row on the same lobby where one team got spawn trapped 3 rounds in a row. I toss smokes for the fuck of it and they were actually able to go play the rest of the map.

[kindred lark]

I mean, it's kind of the mechanics role to influence how people play though

Not the other way around

[drowsy drum]

Meanwhile prior to that, they called the map one sided and trash when I have literally never seen that map be spawnlocked ever

[kindred lark]

If the game tells you to do something, but makes it much easier to do something else even if the results aren't good, the average player isn't doing what the game tells them to

[drowsy drum]

So the game needs to hold your hand for you to brainstorm?

[kindred lark]

You don't know what game design is, do you

[drowsy drum]

To be like "hm, how can I help make a impact?"

[kindred lark]

If the game actively encourages people to play a certain way, a majority of people will

That is how game mechanics work

[drowsy drum]

I do, but when the design is literally backed by the tools in your loadout screen and you chose to not engage with it then who's at fault?

[kindred lark]

That is a game design problem

[drowsy drum]

The smokes aren't there for decoration

The flashes aren't there for "tee-hee blind teammate" moments

[kindred lark]

If the alternative is much easier and still very rewarded it is a game design problem

[drowsy drum]

Is it rewarded? Because by what I see in match chat it isnt

Unless you think a good reward is being spawn trapped

[kindred lark]

Running around without a care for comms or your team is made rewarding for the individual player and no one but him, when everyone does it, the results are more negative than positive for everyone involved
It's not fucking hard to understand

It's not a "logically this benefits me so I'll do this" situation, it's a "The game conditions the average player to play like this because it works for THEM most of the time and when everyone is doing it and it doesn't work anymore everyone suffers" situation

[drowsy drum]

Right, so when they come to that situation don't you think you as a player probably need to do some brainstorming to find out why it doesn't work and fix it?

Not everyone plays the same and not every playstyle works for everyone

[kindred lark]

You can fix individual cases, yeah, but this isn't a "ooh look, strategy" moment, this is a "this game has a fundamental design mishap when you look at it from the perspective of what the devs were trying to accomplish"

But I digress

[drowsy drum]

How is it a misshap when it's a lack of awareness from the side of the player?

If you and 5 other guns rushing in to get domed isn't working, call something. I've heard people get mad about this same shit but they'll be my squad lead and just say "push B" and wonder why we suck shit through out teeth. The game is not that fast that you can't call strats, I've literally had people do it during firefights.

[kindred lark]

Refer to previous post about the ways in which games are supposed to be designed around conditioning players to have the desired behavior

I'm gonna go make some tea

[drowsy drum]

This isn't a single player game, conditioning me into a certain playstyle is just going to kill the fun of a multiplayer FPS.

Have you actually played a FPS game extensively prior to this game? Because it really doesn't feel like you have if you're needing a multiplayer FPS game that encourages player creativity collaboration to condition you to be creative and collaborate.

The game shouldn't need to FORCE you to do that, and (as you've literally said by design) it doesn't and people STILL do those things.

Hell, I quite literally never read any of the fluff text on the steam page

I started the game, and understood what the game was leading me twards with collaboration just from the beta experience alone

And to this day I'll still call out smoke pushes

Even though I'm mainly run and gun

The game literally doesn't need to nurse you into a mindset, the stage is already set for it.

YOU have to take that initiative

[kindred lark]

God, the way you use the word FORCE says a lot
I had hundreds of hours on Titanfall back when the first released, had a few hundred on rising storm, on battlefield 4 and 1, on fucking phantom forces of all places, on arma 2 and 3, on squad...

ALL of those games force players to behave in one way or another, from the base of how they are built to each of their mechanics

Conditioning behavior isn't a single player thing, it's in fact MUCH more important in multi-player games where your behavior doesn't affect only yourself, but others.
You can trust a horror game player to turn off the lights and get in the mood, you can't trust most people in a multi-player round NOT to mess up the flow of the game to everyone else
This is game dev 101, making sure people are playing how you want them to In games that pitch them against each other is the most important shit ever

[heavy frost]

i support the idea of the cosmetics and weapons, having more unique and interesting guns would be cool and i just enjoy the customisation part so more cosmetics is never a bad thing

[kindred lark]

Based

[heavy frost]

(would be willing to pay for some things like the supporter packs, but more unlock cosmetics would be nice too)

[drowsy drum]

The game doesn't have this issue to me lol, I've never had issues with wanting to collaborate with players when the need comes for it and the game has literally done that with just VOIP and throwables

[kindred lark]

I think being able to select which parts or the gun mesh you want to color what would be cool
Like being able to choose from more than just body and attachments
Making a g3 have the normally green parts be brown, but the main body remain dark grey for example

[wary hill]

Holding a point should be made more valuable somehow, which would require building on the spawn area again so people can actually defend

[kindred lark]

Agreed on that

[drowsy drum]

Imo you're talking about a issue that genuinely doesn't exist @kindred lark , because if people ACTUALLY wanted that gameplay they'd play like it but they dont.

[kindred lark]

The people that wanted that left
Genuinely
I know folks that tried for weeks to do that and just ended up leaving

[drowsy drum]

Because you literally can't force collaboration

[kindred lark]

You can, every game that has colaboration does it with how the mechanics are set

[drowsy drum]

You literally can't in a game like this lol. Only way you can vaguely do that is in milsim mode by making players way slower and guns hit much harder.

[kindred lark]

There is no "game like this", this is an Early Access title
In a year this game can be many different things

[drowsy drum]

The casual andy isn't gonna give a shit that I tossed all my smokes to run into a frontline and kill 9 players even if I call before hand that's what I'm doing

I've done that many times with players and more often that not most of them don't care or aren't even worried about winning lol. They're just gaming

[rotund sable]

1000000000000k players over night if Among Us skins and zip 22 added

[cobalt condor]

lol

[drowsy drum]

All that's going to do is make more players leave, because that's not what they're playing for

[kindred lark]

God, I'm sad now
I just hope milsim mode shows up soon
I miss the first few weeks of gaming when it was actually filled with people that were following the game before on that promise of a middle ground between squad and bf4

When most folks would say hi and tell jokes or do war movie VA bits

[cobalt condor]

idk man this game is kinda boring for me the vibe is kinda gone

i guess

[drowsy drum]

The shift sucks but it is what it is. I miss early EA times as well but the game just literally isn't that anymore.

[kindred lark]

The issue is just
How much of a grinder it is for me
Everyone has become vapor
Your average P90 pal is vibrating between 4 cap zones and the frontline has become a front zebra

[cobalt condor]

i just prestiged and now i feel bad for the new players, the grind is pain.

[kindred lark]

I literally pointed out to someone that there is a compass on the screen and they went "Holy shit" when early on people would actively say "Enemy on that rooftop, 157"

[drowsy drum]

The map key is a fucking myth

[kindred lark]

Pain

[drowsy drum]

I swear people ask how you know where enemies or the points are and I tell them to hit "M" and it's like their world lit up

[wary hill]

Redoing keybinding is always first thing I do in a game

Some people are just oblivious when most games now hand feed information

[drowsy drum]

I'm telling you it is NOT a conditioning thing lol, some people here are NEW new or not conscious of a lot of self defeating playstyles that make any teamplay impossible outside of sniping with 8 people in a building somewhere in the middle of nowhere

That's like the most collaboration I've seen from a squad in the last 2 months

[wary hill]

Azagar when a team is losing reverts to sniper war is annoying

[kindred lark]

I feel like that's not the issue at all here
People will find it out if they aren't conditioned to ignore it
Because there is very little reason to use those most of the time, is the thing
The game actively rewards you 80% of the time for ditching all that and rushing people head on

There IS conditioning going on, it's just backwards

[wary hill]

If winning games mattered, it might be a change.

[kindred lark]

When the game makes it so those are needed more often than not people WILL pick up on them

[drowsy drum]

It's more people seeing players drop 100+ kill games and trying to replicate that

Which happens in every game with any decent skill gap mechanically (independent of movement shit)

[kindred lark]

It's just how things go, if using the tools you're given is mostly ignorable people eventually forget those tools exist
Like I'm sure those people have SEEN the map or the compass, it's just been ejected from their muscle memory and regular memory once they've ignored them for so long

[drowsy drum]

And that is something that should be reinforced

The stuff already IN the game to give players those awareness tools

And other stuff like smokes and flashes

Which no one fucking uses

Like I see 0 tips on the map or how to read enemy frontlines/positions

Which are all REALLY important basic skills you should learn in a game like this that has limited information

[wary hill]

It's just game time experience

[kindred lark]

Because again, the movement here is severely downplaying the rest of things
There's no other way to put it
Battlefield 4 was very good at organically making people use all it had to offer
It was also, critically a slower game

[drowsy drum]

BF4 also had movement tech though

[kindred lark]

And it wasn't SLOW
It was SLOWER

[drowsy drum]

Not by much if I'm gonna be 100, only difference was gun weight

[cobalt condor]

exactly i want the quick ultrakill esque movement removed from bbr

[kindred lark]

• SLAMJUMP
• ULTRARICOSHOT
• SCRONBONGLED

[cobalt condor]

its literally press w and shift, get shot at, move mouse around at 16000 dpi and run away

[drowsy drum]

If it was that then we'd all be cooking each other easily and this game would be stale and die lol

[kindred lark]

When you try shooting the smg guy but he double dashes into a slide to chain iframes

[cobalt condor]

cmon look at the amount of air strafers dude bf4 didnt have that, game is trying to be immersive with these people existing, it doesnt make sense

[kindred lark]

Nah, it'd be way better
It used to be much closer to that before, when people didnt do movement tech nearly as much, and it was fantastic

[wary hill]

I can't say I run into a lot of airstrafers

It's like running into robocat

[drowsy drum]

YES IT DID LOL, did you not see how many medics doing tech that literally let you insta pivot off a b-hop?

That shit was rampant

[kindred lark]

It's not just about airstrafing
It's the overwhelming speed of the game
You have no time to breathe or think or actually position most of the time
It does not need to stop having huge battles or have a constant Frontline, it just needs to be more like battlefield 4 and less like cruelty squad after the gunk boosters get bought

The only people that position are fucking snipers and sometimes the lone support

[drowsy drum]

It's still pretty close, I don't use air strafing much at all and I still match/overtake players in CatEat and Ether and shit. They do it way more than me lol.

[drowsy drum]

You absolutely do, if you took time to position yourself better you definitely have time to process threats as they happen

I've never been in a situation where I was like "man I couldn't think of a choice"

[kindred lark]

Oh I am the lone support
Life ain't easy for a ammobox guy

Well I'm on ritalin most of the time and I have lol

[drowsy drum]

Oh I've been maining assault since EA release with recon mixed in.

[kindred lark]

The ADHD kid meme is a lie! Jfjddjd

[drowsy drum]

Funny part is I also have adhd with vyvanse and I play about the same lol

Off meds I suck act actually being able to decide on a choice during a gunfight

[kindred lark]

Eh, I just hope that if this game gets more arcady than it somehow is, the milsim mode comes soon

[drowsy drum]

But on them I'm locked in, but I def didn't start that way

[kindred lark]

Thank God for adhd meds

[drowsy drum]

Just gotta practice making choices quicker and sticking to em

If you make the wrong one, you know in that situation to not do that

Helped me through actually being tactical while also flying across buildings

[kindred lark]

Nah, this style of game just numbs my brain and makes me sad for life
There's nothing interesting about the path it's taking for me, I'm mostly only here because of the potential of the "middle ground between squad and and battlefield" I've heard so much off and the milsim mode

I just hope the folks that didn't stick with the current game come back when the nice stuff shows up, and considering how loyal more casual milsimmers tend to be, I'm sure some will stick around

[drowsy drum]

Idk, I find being able to evaluate my options while also going fast and being efficient fun. Battlebit lets me do that in a WAY less sweaty way.

[kindred lark]

This isn't a diss on more arcady stuff BTW, the way bbr does it just doesn't stick with me

[wary hill]

If they announce a new game mode, I'm sure people who left will give it a try

[drowsy drum]

For sure, I'll probably try it out myself.

[kindred lark]

I tend to do that more with something like Ultrakill tbh

But mostly because ultrakill is more diverse from moment to moment gameplay when it comes to the environments in which I gotta act fast

On account of being yknow
A curated single player thing

[drowsy drum]

Ye, but the unpredictability is more what I like compared to ultrakill where it turns into speedruns lol

[wary hill]

I feel it could be a boost if they make milsim mode accessible and just work on it as they go as they are doing it now

Like milsim mode (alpha test)

[kindred lark]

But BBR wise
The milsimmer in me really sees potential in what can come
This game can make some incredible milsim material on the lighter more casual vein of milsim like some casual squad servers

[drowsy drum]

I feel like that'd probably be a good idea but probably too much for the team as is to manage

[kindred lark]

I'd love that

[wary hill]

Call it alpha so no one can bash it. It's a work in progress and you click a disclaimer you can't bitch about it.

All feedback must have a proper justification with a solution or it will be deleted, etc.

It would appease a lot of people imo

After support update, the game was fine minus skin bug. During that period, time can be spent on milsim mode

[rotund sable]

I think the game needs to remove sprint

[wary hill]

Milsim could put a stamina bar

[heavy frost]

theres a lot of features that they could add to milsim that would slow the game down and make it feel more tactical, stamina being one of them, slowing down movement overall, weapon jams maybe? just in milsim though obviously

[smoky linden]

Removing the sprint will make the game unacceptable to everyone

[smoky linden]

I don't think it's very feasible

My thoughts are quite pessimistic

I just hope that the official can boldly experiment with various game gameplay designs now

The big map was also their attempt, but the experience with GunPlay was not good
But playing tank battles with the team is really good

[pallid pilot]

Except it would alienate the majority of users who want an arcadey shooter

[heavy frost]

Two different gamemodes though, keep the normal game and have the hardcore milsim separate, that's how they're planning it anyway I think

[drowsy drum]

Yep

[clear adder]

bbr is dead anyway

to late

[drowsy drum]

6k daily peak don't seem dead to me

[sinful pulsar]

half of them are recon/DMR mains proning in conquest games making the other half quit the game soon enough

[drowsy drum]

Heaven forbid they like playing recon

Or are just trying other classes

[median ridge]

Or trying to complete the dumb ranged challenges qwq

[drowsy drum]

Y'all make it sound like it's a evergreen strat that'll never change lmao

[drowsy drum]

Is the weekly another long shot challenge?

Because that'd explain a lot

Especially when you need 150 of them

[sinful pulsar]

there arent even sniper challenges this week

[median ridge]

No but the point still stands

[drowsy drum]

I mean thats different

If people are actively going for challenges then that's why

Otherwise is people playing the class for a brief bit or just like recon

And recon isn't that liked

[subtle atlas]

Literally why most people play sniper/use dmr

Remove the range challenges replace them with something goofy like running over 3 people with an ATV

[sinful pulsar]

and because 80% of the maps are wide open

• cant get any gamemode running than conquest

[subtle atlas]

And invasion, but you are correct there as well

[drowsy drum]

What region? NA usually has Domination and frontline servers running all the time

[subtle atlas]

EU 127/64 is mainly just conquest, dom, or invasion. Rarely ever see frontline on official servers

[drowsy drum]

Oh I'm talking more community servers

[sinful pulsar]

EU community servers are the same as well

[drowsy drum]

Official servers pretty much just have people who want conquest 24/7

[sinful pulsar]

we have a frontline server that is empty most of the times

[subtle atlas]

When invasion came out it kinda just took over frontline’s place

Same concept just in an attack/defend style

And supports vehicle play, good for challenges.

[drowsy drum]

I still kinda prefer frontline over invasion (as shit as frontline is on most maps)

[sinful pulsar]

Wish there was any other popular gamemode that facilitates an active playstyle not sitting in a random building holding a random angle for all game

[drowsy drum]

Rush, but it's 32v32 I think

[sinful pulsar]

Yeah Rush is great, that is my go-to when I get tired of conquest 😄

but the servers are often half empty and we play 15-20v15-20

[drowsy drum]

127v127 rush is a pipe dream I wish would work well

But it just wouldn't in battlebit

[subtle atlas]

Yeah would just be a cluster fuck of nade spam, and trophies can only do so much

I wouldn’t be against chaos but yeah, wouldn’t help the game long term

[cobalt condor]

So last night I played a bit of BBR (the sound is ass) and its features and actual gameplay clash so much that I stopped mid-match and switched over to Post Scriptum/Squad44. Granted, PS is more milsim, but how it handles “holding random angle” is its sound design and the inherent teamwork between the squad and others (if its there, but those games attract people who will use a mic)

We were playing a Attack/Defense of the Germans counter-attacking Arnhem and we had hold zones. Everyone was communicating what they were doing, where they were, and what they saw. On top of that, hearing German tanks from far out, hearing cannon and MG fire from far out and getting louder as it got closer upped the tension and made holding an angle feel like eternity when it had only been about 30 seconds.

Obviously combined with a long respawn timer, and unable to spawn on players, each death matters and you have that fear of dying because of the time to get back into combat to help your squad.

Now, BBR isn’t built for that, but I think it’s just trying to be two games in one. I think when the milsim mode comes it’ll help the players that want that and the arcadey players will get their own. It may however have the devs work on different balances and changes for weapons, but it wholly depends on the engine used for BBR

Long story short, BBR needs to cook more, Oki needs to take a break and get some help on dev direction, and probably at this point fully embrace the casual arcadey side of BBR to bring in more players. Like get rid of bleeding, run speed is the same for all players, etc. There’s a lot of “milsim” features in BBR that are conflicting with its gameplay

https://tenor.com/view/dance-cool-lol-story-penguin-gif-15806980480261228142

[stuck cobalt]

this game and the depth it has is what drew the old players to play this game. the classes and their movement speed reminds me of tribes and i think this is a lovely feature. i dont think we need another watered down bf/cod like game, learning the game is the entire fun of it... atleast that what gaming used tobe

[amber moat]

Split it into milsim and arcade modes already!