SNIPER TRAILS ONE LAST TIME

[floral parcel]

here we go oki, a lot of debate around smoke trails and here are some of final suggestions that make sense and should be considered. A) Have an attachment like suppressor make it so you wont have a smoke trail when shooting OR B) Make it so they only show up if the shot was fired further than 200m away

[crimson ivy]

C) REMOVE THE TRAIL

[lone olive]

I honestly feel like this is a lost cause, Oki doesn't like sniper rifles. They should be removed, like the shotgun he also doesn't like.

[keen kite]

is B like
0-200m NO VISIBLE TRAIL
200m-infinity VISIBLE TRAIL

[foggy kite]

agree w remove the trail

[lone olive]

HOWEVER...option A is the way to go, if i was made to decide

[broken jungle]

D) add bullet trails to tanks that sit in spawn and snipe points so we know where they are

[keen kite]

not hard to find them...

[foggy kite]

snipers being overpowered is a function of maps not being designed well around their existence, not the class being overpowered, see every other shooter that has balanced one-shot kill snipers

[broken jungle]

ik its a joke

[lone olive]

most logical option is definitely just get rid of the stupid bullet path, it's an unnecessary detriment

[floral parcel]

it seems like we have to settle on a compromise cause he seems dead set on keeping it

[lone olive]

yeah i know, in which case i say just get rid of sniper rifles, he obviously doesn't want them in the game

stop fuckin slowly making it worse

[floral parcel]

it true tbh

[foggy kite]

agreed

[storm kayak]

after my brief time using them, all I found was that it forced me to move a lot more than before. I could do the same stuff, I just had to be aware of where I popped out of, and it made it a more two dirrectional fight.

by them I mean the sniper trails

[lone olive]

yeah i gotcha

it's just a bad addition for a non-reason

it's upsetting

[storm kayak]

I think the issue was, snipers were very stagnant and therefore never contributed to the actual push for points

[floral parcel]

it just sucks now in terms of flanking cause the whole enemy will turn around if you fire into a larger group and i can still do the same with a dmr with little to no downsides with similar effect just not as satisfying

[lone olive]

if you think that is true, nothing has changed

[broken jungle]

I contribute by keeping people off points while everyone else pushes

[storm kayak]

Then the solution is to add it to the DMR, or to remove it all over, but resonably the first option.

[broken jungle]

maybe u just have bad snipers on your team

[storm kayak]

on every team I have ever played on

[lone olive]

getting off topic

[storm kayak]

thats the general complaint for sniper haters is that they are not actually contributing to a push. the stigma is that they like the long range shots and not being shot back at.

[foggy kite]

which is irrelevant to this discussion to be frank

[floral parcel]

and thats why trails suck it punishes closer play ~sub 200m and forces you to play walking simulator after every shot so youre not actively hunted down

[storm kayak]

I would argue completly otherwise. The sniper trail makes it easier to spot the far away snipers and plan accordingly, and forces closer range snipers to move around more, which mixes the gameplay up a bit.
Thus changes things from "not contributing to a push" to "have to be activley invovled in order to get kills"

anyways, thats just my take with 20 minutes with playing sniper. Maybe my opinion changes later

im going to go play battlebit now.

[foggy kite]

I don't think the trail does that at all necessarily. In fact it's much easier to kill a <200m sniper with a trail, ergo less viable

[floral parcel]

yup

[limber heath]

Completely remove the trail.
The "issue" that people get sniped left and right from a distance is a myth and has been blown out of proportion by orders of magnitude.
Everything else can stay the same.

[storm kayak]

Then this option is a good solution

[foggy kite]

if a trail will exist either way I would rather sit 700m away so at least there's no glint and I can move to the side to avoid other snipers

[storm kayak]

It could just get progressivley more vissible as the shot goes on

[broken jungle]

But if the goal of the glint is to make people get closer then what is the point of the trail. If you're close enough to "contribute to the push" then why use a sniper for that

[floral parcel]

i dont mind the glint or sound changes my only erk is the smoke trails

[foggy kite]

I like(d) playing mid-range sniper. Glint and trail has pushed more people away from <200m encounters and made them even more campy

[broken jungle]

The complaint is snipers sit back and don't help their team, so the solution is the make them even less useful since they spend more time moving and not sniping?

[floral parcel]

it was a pretty backwards logic change tbh just premoted long range camping imo even more

[limber heath]

oh my lord idea to even keep the trail: couple it to scopes!

= 6x scopes have no trail while < 6x scopes have a trail, this makes it still a viable thing to snipe at a large distance:

• the distance itself is the major disadvantage, adjust bullet speeds to make this even more relevant

[floral parcel]

i would rather see any shot <200m no trail and >200m trail becomes visible

[limber heath]

but this is conceptually against what a sniper does, a snipers literal job is to kill from afar, no?
why punish the only purpose you have...

[floral parcel]

after 200m there is a long way for people to get to you and you should tbh be aware of youre surroundings and see them coming, why should i get punished for firing my weapon in shorter distances and while flanking and having the whole enemy team hunt me or melt me down just cause i shot once and have my gps location revealed

[limber heath]

why should i get punished for firing my weapon in shorter distances
isnt this the main issue with snipers them being mostly one-shot on close range...?

be aware of youre surroundings and see them coming
yes! if a sniper kills you with a headshot at like 700 meters, you are at fault for not covering your ass / standing still

make the trail even go up to 500 m or so, I do not care, I want to enjoy my long range sniping (750m+) while not being absolutely punished by the game because I do what snipers do...

[foggy kite]

snipers aren't ever one shot at close range? to the body, at least, and headshots one shot anywhere

[vital lion]

Leave trails as it is.
You only see the enemy's line of sight if the sniper missed.
For below 200m use dmrs

[storm kayak]

I do like this idea tbh

maybe a mussle break that could dissipate it?

[floral parcel]

i think the main issue with sniper is that there is too many at far angles at least from what ive seen discussed, if you get popped in short range by a sniper tbh skill issue, maybe the overall duration of the trail could be reduced on top of my purposed changes

[limber heath]

the whole no idea where you get shot from gets exaccerbated by people fastly moving while they attack you, a sniper with a medium range scope (or even ironsights) moves fast and is therefor higher likely to "hide" from you so you have no idea where they are attacking you from

if you get shot at from 500 meters, it takes a bit of figuring-out work to understand where you get shot from, but you have a glint you can go off and the situation itself (=> hill infront of you in the distance, likely snipers there etc.)

no trail on the long range scopes would then make it viable to snipe at a distance while not making you too obvious while a trail on med-range scopes and below makes it easier for the enemy to spot you cause you are obviously not "sniping" in the traditional sense, which is seemingly the goal

[floral parcel]

i just want to use the gun in whatever way i wish cause i enjoy it, i dont want to be forced to long range snipe cause i personally find that playstyle pretty boring, i shouldnt be unfairly punished for shooting my weapon in non-long ranges when no other weapon has that draw back

[storm kayak]

counter point, no idea where you got shot from within 200M applies litterally to any gun when people are running around. My whole thing is that I like snipers being in the frey, its more enjoyable both ways when A, I see that I got shot from X building so I have to watch the whole building to know where they are, and B. as a sniper, I know I shot someone, and missed, they noticed, so now I have to move VS before I could take 2 or 3 shots relativley short distance and nobody noticed

[limber heath]

i dont want to be forced to long range snipe cause i personally find that playstyle pretty boring
if you like to close-range sniper, dont complain about it, you are using the weapon in a way which is directly against the purpose it was build for, depends on what distances you play obviously

[floral parcel]

🙄 this isnt even the topic of this thread and the main complaint of snipers have been sniper sitting back and too many in far distances on hills, close range sniping shouldnt be punished when smoke trails does nothing to solve the real issue

[foggy kite]

I agree with your first point but I don't see how recon should have a unique detriment in this situation?

[floral parcel]

exactly

[limber heath]

long range sniping should also not be punished, everyone who thinks that it should be punished did not understand the very concept of a sniper rifle or the sniper as a class lol.

why do snipers have 20x scopes n such, for them not to be used...?

again, I think the "issue" with long range snipers killing everyone left and right has been blown out of proportion

[floral parcel]

im not advocating for it to be punished but the main complaint has always been that snipers sit in the back and do nothing and all smoke trails did was enforce that playstyle and heavily punish close range sniping

[storm kayak]

According to a survey of police snipers in the United States, the average distance of a police sniper shooting is around 70 yards 1.
So police, 70 Yards,
most everything I find online says that for URBAN, sniping tends to be around 50M to 300+ ITs a wide range.

[limber heath]

police sniping is not really something representative mate, look at afgahnistan or something, police uses snipers exclusively to kill people at a close range cause why would they move far away? the roof on the other side of the road suits the purpose well...

when snipers get deploy, there generally is a hostage situation or so, otherwise the sniper would be kinda useless cause SWAT would serve the purpose

[storm kayak]

With ARs and the such, normally you have one or two seconds to react, plus the noise is a lot more obvious then one sniper shot. Snipers have the one shot potential, which I think affects things as well.

[foggy kite]

snipers are the loudest weapon in the game

[storm kayak]

Sorry, Everything I find online about URBAN sniping says generally 50 to 350M.
Ignore the police part. Also the roof on the other side of the road suits the purpose as well, so I yield, 75 yard, not 70 (based on average road width)

[limber heath]

this environment suits it more well than a freaking city

URBAN sniping says generally 50 to 350M.
guess what, URBAN sniping stops at medium range...

[storm kayak]

But one loud noise in a jumble of loud noises is nothing

[broken jungle]

What one shot potential are you talking about? Last i checked only m200 with long barrel can one shot at long distances unless they changed something

[limber heath]

if you search for a 4-wheeled car, dont be wondered when you dont find busses man

[floral parcel]

if we are being honest for a second if youre unaware and get shot in the back 90% of the time you wont be able to react, unless the person sucks and misses their shots, and youll die

[foggy kite]

no offense but obviously you have not heard new snipers much because they are LOUD

[storm kayak]

Im talking exclusivley urban though, I dont care about far away sniping. far away sniping does nothing for helping within the city.

[storm kayak]

grenades are loud too

its reallllly hard to pick that one noise out of the jumble

[broken jungle]

huh

[storm kayak]

maybe if it had a more distintive CRACK then it would be different, but the volume alone isn't enough

[foggy kite]

it does have a unique crack?

[storm kayak]

Have not heard it then

[limber heath]

you are construction a situation where long range snipers are non-existant due to not being viable in these situations, and then you are arguging your point that long range snipers are useless in those constructed situations, thats a strawman argument if I have never seen one...

[storm kayak]

Its not a strawman, maybe we are arguing at different levels? Im talking about using "CQB" snipers I.e short range scope, or like 6X, in the "CQB" enviorment.

The situation im constructing, is a real situation, which for some maps is litterally the only situation.

[river pike]

The trail should only be 20m long, and be locally rendered around players.

So if someone shoot me, I will see a 20m long trail. Not a direct line conecting all the way back towards the shooter.

[storm kayak]

oo maybe

[limber heath]

some
there you go, we are obviously trying to find a general situation, not one that suits some maps

[floral parcel]

tbh i wouldnt mind this either

[limber heath]

that would also completly satisfy me as well

[storm kayak]

and again, thats why we tailor the trail to fit those situations, like Habarudo pointed out.

[broken jungle]

Or a muzzle flash from the direction of where they're shooting, not a big cartoonish line

[storm kayak]

litterally all I have been saying is "I like the sniper trails because they make X happen" and your saying, "but its yucky" instead of something like "I like the sniper trails because X happened" and you responding, "yes, but maybe we add this to solve this problem that goes along with it."

[floral parcel]

i just want a change/nerf to the current smoke trails as they accomplish nothing but punish flanking/close range sniping for no reason

[limber heath]

i literally had the idea to bind the trail to the scope

[broken jungle]

why would it be tied to the scope if Oki wants this to be more milsim-like, and no the muzzle device

[storm kayak]

and I said I liked it, to which you responded "moving around is yucky, lets encourage CQB snipers to stay still."
Anyways, I do think we are arguing different things and thats why this all started

Im hella tired dude, long day.

[limber heath]

its 5:40 am mate, same

[storm kayak]

nighty night time for me then

[limber heath]

have a good one

[storm kayak]

bye Mr. Dennis! go to bed bro

[limber heath]

uni at 12

[storm kayak]

Long nap

4 hour nap time

[finite viper]

The bullet trial goes against what it means to be a sniper - to be concealed and pick off high value targets without being seen. The scope glint already balanced this aspect fairly for the people who are aware of their surroundings and know how to navigate the map safely. It allowed counter sniping battles in the game which is an interesting side to the gameplay, like a war within a war but apart of the larger battle.

The bullet trail completely stops all concealment and exposes your position too much. Combind with the 3d spotting your only attracting attention to yourself by being a sniper.

In particular, the bullet trail has completely stopped sniping from the Littlebird to be a fully viable tactic. Before it was excellent fun but now you are contested too much, even at absurd ranges.

[topaz acorn]

I'll be honest, I have yet to see a trail that isn't a friendlies or my own. it does the same job as a tracer because I see it while already looking at that direction.

in fact its usually harder to see than the tracer

[woeful knoll]

I support this or some kind of tweak to trails. If rendering for foliage around players was consistent as well it might actually enable aggression.

Current implementation helps long range snipers and dmrs against agressive recon, it's whack.

[noble snow]

judging from the number of people i whiffed a headshot on earlier who didn't react at all to the sniper trail front and center on their screen i'm not sure if it even makes a meaningful difference

[floral parcel]

The real issue is when you're closer sub 200m and fire into a group people do notice, if it's just a solo dude it doesn't make that much of a difference

[quaint edge]

I’d be happy if their was an attachment that gets rid of sniper trails but it would probably need heavy downsides

[tropic mantle]

I suggested that we could have a slider to adjust trails I think they're visually annoying and reduce my accuracy. Though this would only change what you see.

[thorn pagoda]

I've suggested it before, but I also like the idea of only seeing the trail when within "x" meters. That is to say, only seeing the trail if the bullet passes close to you. And only that part of the trail

Players are smart enough to know the general direction of a sniper from that without giving away too much info

[tropic mantle]

that would be a lot of work from a coding perspective

quick fix to this is just to reduce default trail time by a lot, 2s is way too long when average human reaction time is 250ms, added we already have a audio que which is even faster to react to. Psychologically, you still know ur getting shot by a sniper cause of the sound. Visual indicators longer than .5 seconds id say just counts as unpolished, and visual clutter.

[jagged mantle]

womp womp

[lone olive]

just get rid of sniper rifles

stop torturing us

[viscid trail]

https://imgur.com/qtTml6S

Make them choose between auto bolt action or manual for non trail shots

[fleet pasture]

what about removing glint from medium scopes and keep smoke trails , i personally dont find it fun to just shoot glints and asoon as u scope in the whole server locks on to you. aren't snipers supposed to be more stealthty ?

[floral parcel]

i dont really mind it since it can be avoided by playing above or below the glint range to not have it show up on medium scopes but trails affect every range

[delicate brook]

preferably no smoke trails in general

but if we have to have them

id say reduce the duration

to 1 second or less

and make it less visible or something

like you only see the trail if the bullet flies towards you?

cause rn you can just pinpoint the exact location of snipers that arent even shooting at you

which just brings us back to square 1 where we had insane glint cones that showed people you werent shooting at where you are

[radiant sequoia]

just throwing in that the trails are absolutely ridiculous

[floral parcel]

most people agree besides recon haters tbh

[covert wolf]

just remove trails or only make the trails appear within 300m ahead of the sniper.

even with trails, i don't see any sense in a person who sees the trails being at all concerned - at least in comparison to the person being shot at who should already see the glint.

all of these conditions just for one class out of six others makes it feel like playing as recon needs it own extensive tutorial and terms agreement before playing.

[topaz acorn]

has anyone actually used these to find someone or you just guessing? I've only seen my own, and friendlies. the only time I see hostiles is when I', already looking at him, or we are close to each other. the thing already lasts less than a second.

[fleet pasture]

if i see 5 trails ima be a bit concerned tbh lol and yeh you can see the glint but what if they are behind you or on the side. i do not understand how the trail effects the sniper more then the glint does.

[patent geyser]

this is because your brain is fried and your spatial awareness is zero

[topaz acorn]

nah the tracer tells me enough. they don't last long enough to track unless you are already looking in their direction. to say otherwise is simply being unaware beyond your emotional response.

[patent geyser]

if you couldn't find them before the update, genuine skill issue. snipers were already mid at best

[topaz acorn]

I could because 9 times out of ten they are in the same damn spots. did you miss the fact that I don't use them to find snipers, because either they have faded before I can follow them, or I already saw where the shot came from? guess your reading comprehension ain't up to par.

[patent geyser]

i've seen your dogshit gameplay. skill issue

[topaz acorn]

I have literally never posted any gameplay

you fucking moron

also, by your logic, its a skill issue to not use the trails? I thought it was a skill issue to use them? or does your mind change based only on what people say to you to farm reactions as the worlds shittiest online troll?

[patent geyser]

i've seen you in game and recognized you, spectated a little

was definitely something

[topaz acorn]

oh sure

[patent geyser]

no, i think if you in any way support the bullet trails existing, you are a dogshit player and need to go back to league of legends

[topaz acorn]

and what is my name then?

[patent geyser]

devildog something, idk if it was 20

[topaz acorn]

because it ain't my discord name

[patent geyser]

could've been another guy i suppose

would be an awkward coincidence i suppose

[topaz acorn]

and there are hundreds of people with devildog devildogg devildawg on steam

met 6-7 of them in the same lobby before

[patent geyser]

shitty ass name so yea figures

[topaz acorn]

oh now targeting a name now? how quaint.

reaching for literally anything at this point

[patent geyser]

you literally praise cops lmao

[fleet pasture]

anyway

[patent geyser]

get on your knees and kiss the cop boots

slobber all over them

[topaz acorn]

and now a pfp? keep trying man

[flat jackal]

I don't like snipers and they annoy me. That being said, I think the bullet trail is unnecessary.

Having trouble with a sniper? Just throw a smoke. Problem solved. Especially now that the smoke is dense af.

[nova swan]

Just make it 70% more transparent and its fine

[eternal coyote]

So what exactly makes sniper trails bad? It's not like every player, or even more than half the players can do anything with the information of a snipers position that is further than 200m away

[shy lake]

its stupidly easy to see enemies with the trails yes. i had instances where an enemy sniper was on the second floor and since i saw the trail as i was moving around the house it was easy to blow them sky high with an rpg.

[shy lake]

you can still see the damn trail as you shoot a second shot. wtf are you talking about

[topaz acorn]

the tracer, gunshot and flash of the shot didn't tell you anything?

[topaz acorn]

easy to follow if you're already looking at it. it does nothing the tracer doesn't do already.

[shy lake]

you do know that people are using stuff that removes the muzzle flash like silencers right? the tracers where already easy to spot so wtf mess up an entire class of weapons because some players have no spatial awareness at all?

[topaz acorn]

still got the gunshot and tracer. and notice it was because you already were looking in his direction. with Recon being my second most played, and my most played recently, I can say that the class wasn't messed up at all. maybe if you play assuming people don't ever notice you it would be a problem, but I've spent a long time in nests taking shots less than 300 meters away and it takes forever to be engaged, and it usually only happens when I try to kill another recon.

[shy lake]

it seems like you dont get it. We have no problem with the damn tracers every single weapon in the game uses a silly tracer for every single shot you fire. the frewaking weapon class has a sound spread of 2000 thanks to oki. it gets reduced to 600 with a long silencer. Even that amount of sound and glint cant be dealt with. Fucking 3 second direct smoke lines to the end of your barrel is just a shitty way to make the clueless zoom zoom players stop for a nano second and they continue with their clusterfuck

[topaz acorn]

if its a problem, that's on you. maybe it could be shorter, but unless you already have an angle its not going to matter and that works both ways.

[shy lake]

you are posting in a thread explaining why we want the smoke trails gone...... there are plenty of threads about this. Just becasue you dont feel its a problem does not mean the rest of us "magically" will agree with you.

[topaz acorn]

you're right, most of the people complaining simply have skill issues and are incapable of adapting to a basic feature of FPSs.

[sleek fox]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleBitRemastered/s/2tyUxDPN2H

So true

[storm kayak]

You have no real argument bro.

[thorn pagoda]

Wow just poked my head in... thats bad. Inertia thread 2.0

Imo the trail is a bit excessive and makes it easy to spot and avoid snipers, but it's not as bad as a lot of players make it out to be too

[fathom relic]

Just tune the trail down slightly. As a non sniper it really doesn't do much other than let me know which angle I'm exposed to. And I appreaciate that. I still get sniped. just as much as before. It depends on the scenario. I think yall complain 2 much

[storm kayak]

Right? Its already devolved to name calling

[thorn pagoda]

I've started playing a bit more recently and imo it's harder to find snipers than pre-trail, since the glint is so toned down

Before you would ads with a scope and everyone in a 5 mile radius would be on your arse

[dusty fable]

im sorry to be so blunt but u blind my guy

[thorn pagoda]

Idk, unless the sniper is in a dead area where there's literally 0 other threats, I havent come across it yet.

Not that its impossible to see, but that its not at the forefront and not as easy to see as before when they had a big jpg slapped on their head when they were scoped

[patent geyser]

literally a fucking beam showing you directly where they shot from

[topaz acorn]

which tells you nothing more than what you already knew if you even have something of a brain. you don't miss, trail means nothing. if take 4-5 shots at a dude, then yes he will follow your trail. 9 times out of ten though? you are in a standard sniper spot that people will scan for pretty quickly when they notice that they got shot at.

[patent geyser]

clown emoji

[topaz acorn]

all that tells me is that you are braindead and have no situational awareness, nor do you have any sort of map knowledge.

[hearty olive]

Is it really time to pull out my 500 word thread I saved while waiting for people to get annoyed at sniper trails

[hearty olive]

Ah yes because in a game with 127 people and 10 sec respawns other people cannot see the trails

[spark arch]

The amount of people who skyline, dont use pickaxes, dont build barriers to cut down on angles, dont use binoculars, dont use canted sights to stop the glare, and don't stand far back from a window just leads me to believe people don't know how to play sniper and think the trail is the reason they're getting spotted.

if you shoot from street level on maps like tensa, no one ever sees your trail. You need to bias your shots towards the back of a pack of enemies so no one sees the smoke trails infront of them.

[open shale]

Nice, that's a great argument to get rid of sniper trails since by your own words they don't matter.

[keen kite]

back of the pack? Are you shooting at their back from behind them or from an angle in front

[spark arch]

from the side. Slightly behind your allies but 50m-75m to the left or right. The enemy doesn't see you and you get free shots when they aim down sights. If you shoot at the guy whos furthest ahead the rest of the enemy team sees you, but if you shoot at the back you go unnoticed.

[keen kite]

Gotcha

[abstract coral]

this will jsut kill mice faster...

[topaz acorn]

sure, if you think like an idiot. what it actually means is that they don't do anything to harm. and just like basically every non simulation shooter, has been added to guns. what sets it apart for bbr is that its only for bolts.

[topaz acorn]

they don't unless you miss alot. you will notice when sniping you either get shot on your side, or in front from someone who saw your glint, or you missed a shot on.

[open shale]

Ok they don't do anything to harm. Why have it in the game again?

[hearty olive]

If you are aggressively sniping and flanking some random enemy will notice the trail since it doesn’t only show near the people you are shooting at

[open shale]

B-b-but he said it doesn't do any harm

[abstract coral]

why trails when theres glint+ strafe shot sound + new 3d sounds nerfing snipers even more since u should be able to pinpoint, yes mf pinpoint, after 2-3 shots :/

[topaz acorn]

why not? why not remove building? why not remove kill timers? why not let everyone run around like titanfall. stop making shitty elementary arguments.

[open shale]

You're the one being dense. It absolutely does harm.

[hearty olive]

Damn, the straw man fallacy being used alr

[topaz acorn]

nah, because a non-idiot is hardly affected.

[open shale]

"Anybody but me is an idiot" nice attitude

That's a great argument in a discussion.

[topaz acorn]

never said it was just me numbnuts

[open shale]

You make a good point

Call anyone that gives you examples of it being bad an idiot

[topaz acorn]

its bad because "enemy sees me"

that is literally the only argument

[open shale]

And that's hella strong argument tf you mean???

[spark arch]

obviously there are situations where it becomes unavoidable. But you can cut down on how often its seen by choosing lower elevation and selecting targets in an order that won't reveal you as much.

[abstract coral]

going in with the "worst loadout" and being punished bc ppl dont know how lean left or right :(

[hearty olive]

Yeah and I do that by nature alr

Even before sniper trails

[topaz acorn]

oh no, I have to set myself up to minimise angles on me. oh no, I have to make sure not to miss my target, especially if its another recon. thisis such pain

[open shale]

...It is. That's what everyone is telling you.

[topaz acorn]

mother fucker basic ass posistioning is pain?

[spark arch]

I've noticed almost no difference in since the changes, infact, its easier to find bad snipers now, good ones are just as obnoxious as ever.

[open shale]

For some reason you shrug it off in a tasteless way every time so you end up arguing with everyone.

It's not basic ass positioning

[topaz acorn]

that is very basic lol

[open shale]

it's a straight beam to where you are

So...

[abstract coral]

i get that snipers need trails bc bullet tracers are there too, but 2 sec is way too long and way to obvious

[open shale]

You don't think a straight beam to where you are is a bad thing

Then we should add trails to every gun it doesnt matter right

oh wait

it does

[topaz acorn]

my man, if you think in servers above 32 that anyone is gonna notice, you're high

[abstract coral]

there are tracers...

[topaz acorn]

I don't think you understand how little that would change

or how many games actually do just that

[open shale]

It gives you hella

[abstract coral]

game would turn to cample bit

[topaz acorn]

never played r6, cod, or battlefield I guess

all of those have bullet trails on all guns

[open shale]

You have to analyze one flying bullet in a split second to determine a direction, and even then guess where it originated precisely. Vs sniper trail which is HURR DURR straight line to target

[spark arch]

its clearly a nerf, but its not game breaking if you compensate for it. Watertower/windmill snipers were annoying as fuck. I'm glad they have been nerfed. Saying that as recon main btw.

[open shale]

This is battlebit sir not cod

If you want cod go play cod

[topaz acorn]

yeah so? smoke trails following bullets has been done bud. and it never changed shit

same for BF

same for smaller more tactical games

every gun

[hearty olive]

Half my aggressive flank positions barely work anymore because of the trails rn. Being a stealthy flanking mf doesn’t do much when you get a long ass 2sec trail everytime you shoot telling everyone near the target where you are. If you’re picking off lone targets away from the objectives then sure it doesn’t affect as much

[abstract coral]

bf has too much visual clutter to notice anything... imo

[open shale]

Vast majority of games choose between glint and trail not both

[topaz acorn]

battlefield? cod?

which have both?

[hearty olive]

I’d rather have a bigger glint like before than trails tbh

[open shale]

Yeah, they suck ass and that's why a lot of people want it gone.

[abstract coral]

yes gotta get behind even now abd have a boring sniper match :(

[open shale]

You can't just mold this entire game 1:1 with cod and battlefield. Why the hell would anyone play this game?

[abstract coral]

im so up for that

[topaz acorn]

sure man, noone said shit about it in battlefield. cod only because it just caused clutter on small maps

[topaz acorn]

1 to 1? buddy these are examples that your dumbass is overreacting.

[spark arch]

I follow my team and let them engage, then i kill the guy they're fighting with. I think of glint, special sound and trail, the sound is the worst, i can hide my trail by biasing my shots towards the back of aplayer so they dont see trails if i miss, but the sound gives me away.

[abstract coral]

mate i think most ppl here dont want a shooter that holds your tiny little hands while playing

[open shale]

I'm the one overreacting? You're the one insulting everyone that gives you a counter argument and get mad when they have a point

lmfao

[topaz acorn]

at worst, they make the trail last less time.

[topaz acorn]

you have one point

[open shale]

Yeah, and it's a strong point you can't just ignore.

[hearty olive]

Yeah shooting someone in the back, but then 5 other people who just respawned going back into the fight behind them can see the trail

[open shale]

Quality over quantity my friend

[topaz acorn]

which also doesn't mean anything because its easily countered by basic posistioning that you should be doing anyway

[spark arch]

If you're aiming at someone they can't have people spawn on them????

[open shale]

You can use basic positioning as an argument for everything in life. That doesn't make it a good point.

[hearty olive]

Bruh, you ever heard people respawning from objectives or a respawn beacon near the frontline?

[floral parcel]

Devil dog still going at it in this thread?

[topaz acorn]

repeating "i can get seen because I suck at being a sniper" is not a good point lol

[open shale]

I've played several shooters at a top 1% percentile for context. Basic positioning is such a dumb argument. I can just flip it backwards: why can't the people I'm shooting at have better basic positioning? Why do they need a straight beam to where I am when I shoot?

^ there's no counter to this because we can go on forever

[hearty olive]

My flanking positions are literal flanking positions where Im at an off angle and near the frontline where Im using the fact that you need 1 shot to kill someone improving your stealth massively

[topaz acorn]

oh we got a badass over here. and as it is, your argument is old, and has failed everytime it has been brought up. both in this game, and every game that has had it.

[abstract coral]

like our trails

[open shale]

You're the one calling everyone shit, so >_>

[topaz acorn]

don't know man, not knowing how to set up as a sniper is pretty basic. so I wonder how "top 1%" you actually were. was that in your hometown or something?

[spark arch]

If you're knowingly firing at a target that has players swarming from it, you're going to get spotted? Every time i kill someone through a scope their allies hit the deck, before nerf or after. There are some narrow cases where its a massive nerf, but in the majority of cases you can compensate by hiding yourself well and cutting down on angles. As soon as you let off a shot you shuld be switching to canted scope so you lose the glint, they have a lot harder time figuring out where you are.

[floral parcel]

Yo here are my update suggestions A) Allow an attachment(like suppressors) to greatly reduce or remove trails when equipped B) Make it so trails only appear when the shot has traveled further than 200m C) Make its so the trails dissipates (30~45% of the line will be super faint and hard to trace) from the point it was shot so the enemy can still see the trail and know they were shot but it isnt a straight line all the way to the shooter D) Greatly reduce the current duration(make the last anywhere from 0.4~1.5 secs) of the trails and lower their visibility. ANY of these changes could WORK i just want to SEE a CHANGE to the CURRENT ones

[hearty olive]

I never had an issue with glint, that’s how strong my off angles and flanks are

[open shale]

Wow took my top 1% comment pretty personally. Sorry you aren't mentally fit to debate in a public discord server o7

[topaz acorn]

eh, suppressors are so meta rn that would just be a massive buff to the things

[open shale]

Keep calling everyone in this thread "idiots", "shit", etc.

[floral parcel]

Most people I have seen run ranger 90% of the time

[hearty olive]

Typical us public schooler

[open shale]

lol idk about that

[abstract coral]

and kind cringe for new snipers ;_; edit: nvm dint knew ranger was a attach thingy :(

[topaz acorn]

C + D would actually make them look much better

[open shale]

I'm sure he's a kind person irl but hella dense online.

[topaz acorn]

why tho, long suppressor is better than it, + its suppressed

[floral parcel]

Idk just the way it is

[hearty olive]

They never realised ranger got nerfed probably

[topaz acorn]

eh its still up there because of the velocity buff, its just that long supp has that too now

[floral parcel]

I meant ranger barrel mb for not explaining

[abstract coral]

nah i should prolly know the names by now, but i onyl care for stats

[hearty olive]

Yeah that’s what I meant ranger is literally useless compared to long supressors rn

[topaz acorn]

honestly, what if we took option C, and applied a fade based on distance traveled?

so the trail is only like 50 meters behind the bullet?

[floral parcel]

Why can't I pin messages in my own thread

[hearty olive]

Shouldn’t be a trail till 100-200m away from target tbh

[spark arch]

Eh, i think cross seam shots were kinda op and were underutilized by players. Trails nerfed that playstyle the hardest.

[topaz acorn]

ask mod?

[hearty olive]

Yeah but its not super op because you are still in the frontline and there are 20other players running around

[topaz acorn]

that would kinda just bring us back to glint less medium snipers. a fading trail following the bullet can keep the look, but also not lead straight to your posistion

[hearty olive]

The sniper shots being distinct already does that though

[spark arch]

lol there were games of frontline where i found an angle and piled up 20 kills because dudes would stand behind a giant baricade all day. They were definetly oppresive. It was super fun, but obviously cancer for the players who had to deal with it.

[trim obsidian]

the reason i swapped to ranger barrel is because the sound spread is still 600m if im reading that right you get a little faster draw speed and aim down time with the ranger

[topaz acorn]

I mean... you can hear them from a massive range now.

[hearty olive]

You literally get directed in the direction you got killed from how is that op?

[floral parcel]

@blazing wren can I get a message pin on this sorry for the ping

[topaz acorn]

I liked the touch more velocity it gives, but those are good reasons too. I tend to sit in place more with my bipod

[hearty olive]

That’s just people not being situationally aware

Why give them a crutch when they literally can know where you were shooting them even before trails

Also its risk vs reward, you are playing at very big risk by taking a flanking position in a sniper at the frontline. If some random person spots you unless you are good at quickscoping you are going to die 9/10 times

[trim obsidian]

long sup gives the same as ranger if im not mistaken

[spark arch]

Because any mechanic that makes a player feel as though they have no agency is problematic. Game balance aside, it felt like shit pushing the frontline before the changes.

[trim obsidian]

sniper attachment rework when 😔

[topaz acorn]

isn't it like a tiny amount faster? I swear it was. I'll need to check it

[floral parcel]

Wouldn't mind that either

[hearty olive]

They do have agency, the game already directs you to where you got killed from

[open shale]

You do have agency, smoke grenades

[spark arch]

"feel"

[floral parcel]

Skill issue tbh

[hearty olive]

After 10-15kills someone will come try to find you even before trails

[topaz acorn]

huh. that the same for every rifle?

[floral parcel]

A whole class shouldn't be hindered or nerfed just because you feel it's unfair and can't use your awareness for a second

[trim obsidian]

im pretty sure yes

[spark arch]

Except that happens in lots of games all the time. If it makes the game overall less enjoyable it tends to get changed.

[trim obsidian]

supressor short oddly enough loses velo but gains more ads/swap time

[open shale]

Idk to me this is a result of a lot of people falling into an autopilot mindset and just not using smokes. 9/10 times I get cockblocked by smokes when I'm rolling with snipers.

[trim obsidian]

idk the sound changes did kinda nerf supps to ghe ground but thats a diff discussion

[floral parcel]

Youre acting as if all your deaths are caused by snipers when I can assure for every death to a sniper you probably died ten time to a fal or ump before that

[topaz acorn]

I think the problem could be fixed if it wasn't just all one trail, think SRS from Halo? it technically had a trail but it faded from the shooters spot very quickly. as it is now its just a grey laser. fade could fix that

[floral parcel]

That was one of my suggestions in my updated list

At least similar

[hearty olive]

Tbh I still thinking trails shouldn’t start until 100-150m from the gun barrel tbh

[topaz acorn]

yeah yours is still just a single trail but faded near the shooter, mine was more a follow a bullet trail

[floral parcel]

I just want something to change about current ones I'll take anything but not as they are currently

[spark arch]

of course. But the helpless feeling from your whole team getting sniped was bad for the game. In the same way i think inertia should be added and zoom zoom should be cut back a little. Sure, 'skill issue', but it feels awful to play against. It shouldn't be nerfed into the ground, and maybe there should be ways of incurring a trade off to make trails less obvious at the cost of weapon sway or glint or something, but the implementatino of a mechanic to reduce the negative feelings from a large portion of the player base is a good thing.

[topaz acorn]

that is the distance where a sniper would be most effected by having a trail in the first place. and if they use mediums too, for all intents and purposes they might as well be using a DMR that can one shot.

[hearty olive]

Dmrs just need body shots though, you need to actually aim with a sniper

[floral parcel]

You still have to hit a head shot when dmrs can just spam their mag into you

[topaz acorn]

at 150 meters its not exactly hard to hit a headshot

with a bolt I mean.

[floral parcel]

If it wasn't that hard more than 50% of lobbies would be recon when in reality its around more like 15-10% of lobbies

It still takes skill when most other weapons can melt you in that range

[topaz acorn]

I have seen at least 50% of teams in 127 be recons

guess that's technically 25%

[spark arch]

like would a trade off of an attachment that makes your movementspeed and aimdown time absolute dog shit in order to remove trails be a fair trade? what if time between shots was doubled if you use a trail-less attachment? trailless snipers could be fine, but they'd need to be nerfed in other ways

[floral parcel]

Give me multiple ss of that and I gladly take my point back

[open shale]

Pretty sure if you factor out challenges and average it out there aren't as many recons as people make it seem. Cherry-picked screenshots of a handful of matches doesn't count.

[topaz acorn]

how tho

[topaz acorn]

that's also fair

[abstract coral]

true ssg's bolt feels ok tbh but the rest come even to a slow dmr player

[topaz acorn]

or oki could just make the trail fade from point a to point b instead of all at once

[open shale]

For my playstyle I'd never use that in a million years.

[floral parcel]

Ewwww im not trying feel like I'm carrying an lmg

[spark arch]

so in otherwords, you just dont want it nerfed lol

[open shale]

Yup.

[spark arch]

doubt thats going to happen

[open shale]

Trying playing mid-range recon yourself for a few days. You'll kinda get where I'm coming from

[spark arch]

i only play mid range recon

[open shale]

Ah, then I'm surprised at that suggestion. You'd actually use an attachment like that at mid-range?

[abstract coral]

i ony snipe for faaze

[spark arch]

no i wouldn't, but i think it's fair to have a trail if you want to play fast and loose and be trail less if you want to opt for a more methodical playstyle. Cross seam shooting with an L96 was super strong and deserved a nerf. I dont think glint, trail and sound effect was needed, but some combination of them were warranted.

[woeful knoll]

There were l96 users regularly getting 200 kills a game?

[hearty olive]

Im that L96 mf, Im the person who quickscopes people in close range if push comes to shove

Now the entire aggressive playstyle is nerfed and more people are forced to play long range camp sniping which is worse

[spark arch]

Not everything is about balance. There are games that have strategies that perform poorly most of the time but are god awful to play against and anti-fun, those playstyles and mechanics tend to be removed.

[hearty olive]

I get having trails in 150m for snipers who are still at their side, but you can no longer flank with snipers because of it

[open shale]

I see what you mean. I just feel that adding all those visual indicators to take care of one specific playstyle feels like cutting an arm off for a finger. All the other playstyles got hit hard.

[hearty olive]

Its such a dumb change to make people go for the shittier playstyle

Which Oki thinks is the only playstyle it seems

[open shale]

Yeah what Orphan says makes sense if that is Oki's thought process. Its just a nerf that overreaches more than it should

[spark arch]

It's hard to evauluate anything that's in alpha. If they add inertia, suddenly sniping moving targets gets easier, and thus the trails become more justified.

or beta, or whatever they're calling it

[spark arch]

if balance/playstyle was the issue then m110 serves you just aswell. But the headshot noise is half the fun.

[spark arch]

its a little over the top, but it can always be tweaked

[woeful knoll]

If thats the case then I don't want inertia. I like predicting shots on moving targets.

I can get towards the top of the leaderboard on Frontline, but I can't get the 150+ kills that cateat medics can.

[patent geyser]

don't interact with devildogg, dude might actually be a bot

[pulsar grotto]

This is completely agree with the maps have way too much extra space in spawns where opposing teams cant go to and in parts of the maps where there are no objectives and hard to reach, zalfi bay islands for example, and nobody wants to sacrifice an arm and a leg to run after the recons that are 500m+ away for one kill when they can be doing other things to support the team

[pulsar grotto]

Most cateat arent even medics anymore after the class weapon changes and assault being the meta

[patent geyser]

i mean, for sustain i'd argue medic is still the best, bar running out of ammo

which is only a problem if you're playing really slow

[pulsar grotto]

an assualt can actually heal from low health to full faster than medic but medic can heal little heal and others without worrying about bandages

[patent geyser]

yes

[thorn pagoda]

God forbid someone has an opposing opinion I guess, sheesh.

I don't even oppose nerfing the trail, I think it is a bit overboard, but i also think calling it a dead giveaway is a bit silly when most of the time you have a metric shitton of people to worry about, and the sniper just happens to take a shot at you from a km away... You're not gonna focus the sniper in that scenario because there are more dangerous threats that are easier to deal with.

[floral parcel]

also keep in mind thats not the only scenario that is possible, many recons hate this because it ruins flanking and closer range play (sub 200m) styles where the trail will most likely get you killed unlike a sniper 500m away where the trail doesnt really impact them as much

[thorn pagoda]

Yeah, and I think those scenarios are very detrimental to the sniper in that case and need to be accounted for. But the trail in and of itself I don't think is the issue so much as the severity of it

[floral parcel]

i had asked the mod to pin my updated suggestions but they never did so imma post them again down here

A) Allow an attachment(like suppressors) to greatly reduce or remove trails when equipped B) Make it so trails only appear when the shot has traveled further than 200m C) Make its so the trails dissipates (30~45% of the line will be super faint and hard to trace) from the point it was shot so the enemy can still see the trail and know they were shot but it isnt a straight line all the way to the shooter D) Greatly reduce the current duration(make the last anywhere from 0.4~1.5 secs) of the trails and lower their visibility. ANY of these changes could WORK i just want to SEE a CHANGE to the CURRENT ones

[thorn pagoda]

ONe thing I think would help is scaling it with velocity, alongside the range limit

E.g. high velocity sniper b ullets have more severe trails (and thus should be used from farther)

To counter people just using M200 from literally every distance

[open shale]

Nobody wants that

This whole thread is about mid/close range sniping being dead.

[thorn pagoda]

That's what i'm saying - If they scaled it on velocity so snipers more oriented on that playstyle dont have much of a trail, It'd keep the trails in for cross country snipers, while minimizing it on closer ranged snipers

Since that's apparently what oki wants - Indicators of when long range snipers are aiming at you - Then scaling it on velocity means those players still get trails

[topaz acorn]

pretty sure the velocity of the snipers is close enough that wouldn't change anything

that would really only effect the m200

[thorn pagoda]

I'm pretty sure the starting one is at 900, with some ranging up to 1400 by default without attachments - They could make trails either nonexistant or very minor around ~900 for snipers and more significant the higher it goes? Doesn't need to be fully linear

Oki hasnt indicated that he's thinking about removing trails much, so I'm just trying to think of compromises at this point

[topaz acorn]

the m200 is the only one at 1400

and the others are used for closer fighting anyway

this would just make the ssg the only one able to fight up close

[hearty olive]

Fuck the ssg69 such a shitty sniper. L96 outclasses it even fir closer ranges

The in ads bolt is a warcrime

[topaz acorn]

eh, its not so bad that its terrible, its just worse than the others. it still works just fine.

[trim obsidian]

it literally the worst in the game

[topaz acorn]

worst does not mean unusable or actually bad.

[trim obsidian]

i didnt say it was either but stat wise it is the worst of all rifles

[topaz acorn]

your statement was written in a way to contradict my statement of "(it being) worse than the others".

[floral parcel]

Still doesn't change the fact that it feels like ass to use

[hearty olive]

I get an aneurysm everytime I tried to use the ssg69

[midnight saffron]

If that was the case, there wouldn’t be a 12x, 20x and 40x scope, nor would there be a damage increase past 700m.

[midnight saffron]

I have been playing a lot of sniper since the update. I haven’t had this experience. Furthermore, when I haven’t been sniper and instead been on the receiving end, I’ve noticed it’s actually incredibly easy to miss the smoke trail entirely if you are in the middle of a fight or have anything else to focus on other than the sniper shooting at you.

[floral parcel]

people seemed to have varied experiences but the one im talking about in my point seems to be most common one also, in my experience when i play another class hunting down and spotting trails even in active zones is one of the easiest things to do

recon is my second most played class with almost 100 hrs and 5k kills on my l96 being my most used weapon i think i do have a fair idea on how these changes have affected the class and my play style

this is an update to my recommended changes with trails as they currently are overkill imo

A) Allow an attachment(like suppressors) to greatly reduce or remove trails when equipped B) Make it so trails only appear when the shot has traveled further than 200m C) Make its so the trails dissipates (30~45% of the line will be super faint and hard to trace) from the point it was shot so the enemy can still see the trail and know they were shot but it isnt a straight line all the way to the shooter D) Greatly reduce the current duration(make the last anywhere from 0.4~1.5 secs) of the trails and lower their visibility. ANY of these changes could WORK i just want to SEE a CHANGE to the CURRENT ones

[lone olive]

fuck it, i've grown away from recon enough to not care about it anymore. rip

[lament sapphire]

I’m still butt hurt that they took my fav play style and made it much less enjoyable. I just barely play anymore

[woeful knoll]

The bb community is also increasingly toxic to recon players regardless of skill. They simultaneously think snipers do nothing but are also overpowered.

You mean snipers aren't playing flanking routes as much because of trails and need to play behind the team in order to push up?

Then many teams are too dumb to understand the team failed at map control (no buildings, no support boxes, no trophies, no smokes) so they blame snipers.

This isn't a good situation for the game, we need trail tweaks.

[vital lion]

Once again, sniper trails do not hinder good recons

[lament sapphire]

They just make it much less enjoyable for a lot of them.

[midnight saffron]

Because they do little to help the squad when they are a mile out, they don’t really help push, they also one hit at ranges you can’t even see them at (with 20x, 40x scopes) and their opposition is likely using 1x sights because the higher powers are overwhelmed by recoil.

[floral parcel]

theyre overkill and should be tweaked, im not even asking for their full on removal. they also do have a pretty big hinderance on flanks i used to pick off bigger groups i can no longer do that without being melted or hunted down i have to go out of my way and try to pick off stragglers or solo/duos if i flank having less overall impact at stopping big pushes

[midnight saffron]

Seconded

Doesn’t stop me from going 25-0 within 10 minutes.

[lament sapphire]

So the solution is to punish recons that play up close (sub 200meters) ? The ones that actually help “the push”?

[midnight saffron]

Did I say that?

[lament sapphire]

By supporting bullet trails in their current state, yes.

[midnight saffron]

No, I didn’t. Stop strawmanning.

Anyways

[lament sapphire]

Okie dokie

[midnight saffron]

When you are closer than 200m, a cloud trail isn’t going to be what gets you killed. It’s going to be the thunderclap of a sound that tells the entire battlefield exactly where you are.

[woeful knoll]

Once again, I have a 2.35 kd, almost 9000 L96 kills. Most of my kills aren't at extreme ranges as I play a lot of Frontline.

[floral parcel]

you youre self are straw manning by using your experience which is proably very limited as the defense as towards why trails are ok

[vital lion]

Should have higher kd

[midnight saffron]

That’s not what straw man is.

[lament sapphire]

Not true. What gets me killed is when a random dude with a beam rifle notices my bullet trail and (wild) sound spread and comes looking for me.

[floral parcel]

tbh in active zone tracking down one sniper with only the firing sound is near impossible as it drowned out by large amounts of suppressive fire its the trail that gets you killed most of the time if youre flanking

[vital lion]

I play 32 exclusively and sniper trails if I see one, show me line of sight where I definitely don't want to be.
If I see one. Read as a skill issue on the recon side.
1k kills on l96, 1k kills on m200.
Not recon anymore, 3.2kd

[floral parcel]

how tf is it a skill issue on the recon if you see a trail if that happens whenever you fire the weapon currently 😭

[woeful knoll]

I play on 127 servers, now I see why you don't understand anything about kd. Why would trails be much of a problem on 32?

[vital lion]

Sure when you want to use a sniper rifle or dmr 127 is the way to go

[hearty olive]

Ah yes I get punished for being aggressive and flanking and being more close to the combat and actively get encouraged to be more campy. Amazing change 10/10

[eternal coyote]

Thats what the recon class suppose to be, its not that hard, sniper rifles are meant for distance, and not stealth or close action. Use DMRs then

Whats so hard understand, you complain that sniper rifles arent as good anymore close range is like an SMG user complaining he cant kill a sniper 600m away from him - and even then the Snipers can atleast kill while the SMG realistically can't.

Completely stupid, If you want "close combat" fights then play a Weapon that was meant for that, not a sniper rifle

If putting an x6 on an UMP-45 and "sniping" with it isn't viable, why should SMGing with a Sniper be?

[trim obsidian]

i think its an issue of oki saying he no longer wants to go for milsim like things and weapons being forced out to a effective range does feel kind of milsimey to me its an arcade shooter what difference does it make if snipers are good up close? if you add ADS+bolt then its not like the TTKS are much different anyway than anything else plus DMRs have become even more dominant in the close/medium ranges than snipers ever were not to mention snipers already were punished for being up close shorter mags to make it viable to even be up close and quick scoping on top of bolting times already was the punishment everything else is just overkill

[eternal coyote]

What has sniper rifles being not ideal for close range has to do with Milsim?

[trim obsidian]

having weapons adhere strictly to a specified ideal shooting range is a pretty milsim kinda thing

[eternal coyote]

No? Thats basic gamedesign? Or can you name me an arcade shooter where the ideal range of sniper rifles isn't far out?

[trim obsidian]

tf2

cod
titan fall 2

halo

all aside from halo maybe pretty fast paced games far as ttk goes and it gels pretty well

id even consider battlefield 3 to be pretty arcadey and snipers werent nearly as much of a problem as heavy barrel m16s were back then

the way i see it theres only a issue with sniping because people think there is not because there is a legitimate issue with it

[eternal coyote]

How is in TF2 the ideal range of snipers not the longest distance possible?

Also the trail itself isn't milsim either, its not realistic, its arcady too

[topaz acorn]

all of those the ideal range for snipers is definitely not up close. just because people do quickscopes and the like does not mean that they are good for close range.

[eternal coyote]

All in all, Sniper rifles were too strong close range than for the devs likings, so they nerfed it and buffed long range sniping by reducing the glint by a lot

[topaz acorn]

and the trail is just currently a bad implementation for something that basically every modern fps has on their weapons.

[trim obsidian]

if people have the ability to do good in those ranges that means they are good at those close ranges not sure how you can seperate the two

[trim obsidian]

longest distance possible doesnt afford you the best sightlines as in any game

[topaz acorn]

not really. all that means is that they were made way to powerful. almost all those games allow the snipers t one shot at some level, really only halo's sniper is only headshots, I believe the Drakon may also be that way. every other sniper has a crutch of either one shot above the waist, or chest and up. all that means is that, with no armor you can kill everyone in one shot, and with quick scopes being 100% accurate in most of those games its easy to do. in halo you at least have to hit the head, but its also a pretty fast firing semi-auto for a sniper anyway, and hip fire is also very accurate because until I think halo 5 there was technically no ADS.

the point being they were "good" in those games because they could one shot because of game mechanics, or they could two shot and fire fast. TF2 was less so because of the movement, you were unlikely to hit anything close with the drakon up close and if you missed you were dead anyway.

[trim obsidian]

id argue they were as powerful as they needed to be one shot is kind of an irrelevant TTK gives a more accurate time frame of how long it takes being bolt time + aim time + travel time. why punish such a high skill ceiling even before if you were quick scoping before the changes and missed once you died anyway as it would be if you missed with any gun

[topaz acorn]

this just tells me you never actually played those games.

[trim obsidian]

im talking strictly in BBR

[topaz acorn]

oh so not talking about the other games now

alright.

[trim obsidian]

for this instance yes

[topaz acorn]

Trails are badly implemented. they do not disappear until the bullet hits, and then 2 seconds after.

simply having the trail disappear as the bullet flies, with it following 50 meters behind, would give the same effect but also not just give a "massive beacon" that people say it is

[woeful knoll]

So they want snipers only using the m200 and for the player base to harass and grief "campers"?

That logic makes no sense.

[eternal coyote]

This should be the best playstyle yes, you can still close range snipe but it wont be ideal, like you can't snipe with SMGs

I mean snipers are always about attacking from far range, thats also what real life snipers do

[floral parcel]

the main complaints from the community are that snipers sit to far away and do nothing, all trails have done is enforce and promote that playstyle. this game isnt irl and just because i wanna use the weapon in a way that requires skill shouldnt mean i should be punished for simply firing the weapon

[eternal coyote]

Yeah but there you atleast know you are being shot at and have the time the sniper needs to zeroing and lead the shot. At close quarters its just hitscan

[delicate brook]

this

[vital lion]

That sounds.. reasonable. Actually a good suggestion, not like other whiners

[hearty olive]

It still nerfs my extremely aggressive playstyle by quite a bit but it sounds reasonable

[topaz acorn]

not really because even if it is that long, it fades at 50 meters, its supposed to travel as quick as the bullet

it does effect a little, but not nearly as "bullet makes trail, bullet hits target, trail lasts for 2 seconds"

[hearty olive]

Yep, I can stick to that change

[shy void]

It's sad to say it but again having sniper trails is pushing the game towards the very first iteration of the game being Marksmen rifles being overpowered.

[floral parcel]

A) Allow an attachment(like suppressors) to greatly reduce or remove trails when equipped B) Make it so trails only appear when the shot has traveled further than 200m C) Make its so the trails dissipates (30~45% of the line will be super faint and hard to trace) from the point it was shot so the enemy can still see the trail and know they were shot but it isnt a straight line all the way to the shooter D) Greatly reduce the current duration(make the last anywhere from 0.4~1.5 secs) of the trails and lower their visibility. ANY of these changes could WORK i just want to SEE a CHANGE to the CURRENT ones

[woeful knoll]

The balance is a bit out of whack. A 4x m110 can stay peaked and have no glint or trails and can more actively watch for sniper smoke. As a result bipod is better on dmrs outside of long range scope m200.

Sandbags getting hit by sniper rounds should give off a lot more visible sand dust so players know they're being shot.

The trail should at least start after 100-200m. If a player can't see or hear a sniper that close they are just clueless. IMO the opacity of trails feels worse on certain maps which is also whack.

[vital lion]

Add low quality high pressure ammo randomly appears in mag with a chance of 1%.
When proc happens, blows the chamber, blows the whole mag as well as fingers. Permablind on one eye until respawn

At least at RU side

[floral parcel]

bruh

[abstract coral]

why dont dmr's have glint and a trail ?

no dmr is reall fun to play or play against... how about you give the snipers actual bullet drop and remove the trail. the trail just ruins cc. if u get fucked by a sniper try to use movement and leaning, only the m200 can insta delete you when u get peek by it...

ppl only dont cry about dmrs bc no actual sniper would use it, its rather easy to use and does the job of a sniper better then a sniper, it only loses vs sniper

and instead of making the classes more unique they gave other classes the ability to use dmrs aswell, idk what to think about that

[river pike]

Sorry for the bad quality, discord filesize limit is 25mb.

I saw the trail in the sky and easily found this sniper, without even wanting to look for him.

Its just that easy now...

[viscid trail]

ok and

[river pike]

Its a bad mechanic as it currently is, is what I'm saying.
Dude was playing totally reasonable, and he was not shooting at me, I was not looking for him.

If you had to be 20m close to the shot to see the vapor trail, it would eliminate a lot of issues.

[viscid trail]

its working as intended

[river pike]

Its bad tho.
Its a skill crutch, at least limit it's visible range.

[topaz acorn]

...from where you were a tracer would have done the same.

you also didn't find hm, you just ran in his general direction and got lucky he didn't shoot your dumbass running right at him in the open. he also left a jeep right next to his spot.

still saying the shot following the bullet at a set distance would be far better.

[river pike]

You can see the tracer passing overhead first actually!

I mean, I took the angle of the vapor trail, opened the map and followed it towards the general area.
Thanks for calling me a dumbass. I saw the height at which he was firing (way above my head), and figured he wouldn't be looking downwards, but that's just stupidity from my side I guess.
It doesnt take that much brainpower to work out, since I'm dumb af.
Where will the sniper be? "on top of the hill"
The sniper was bad though, who left his jeep in the open.
I doubt I'd got out of my way to kill him as I did, had I not spotted the vapor trail.

Imo, it was unfair for the sniper but I wont reply to people who troll and need to rely on skill crutches.

[topaz acorn]

so basically, it changed nothing beyond the fact that you missed the tracer.

[river pike]

It changed everything since I saw the tracer.
It wouldve been harder to triangulate the general (not the correct word but you get the gist) if I didnt have the angle due to the tracer.
He didnt use a suppressor though, so that also f*cked him.

[topaz acorn]

like , I don't like how the trails are currently implemented, but that video doesn't show anything that wouldn't have happened if you saw a tracer and know the map

[rapid agate]

honestly i dont think trails make that much of a difference. minor nuisance sure but recon is more or less the same.

[topaz acorn]

I just don't like how long they last

[river pike]

I think they woulv'e been so much better if they were 20m long, and not all the way back to the sniper.
Visually I quite like it actually. (except when you shoot as a sniper and get the trail blocking your vision, thats a bit frustrating)

[topaz acorn]

yeah, I was thinking 50, to give that same trail effect that deletes itself as the bullet moves keeping the length at 50

and once it hits it could be unchanged, because a 50 meter trail that last 2 seconds is a lot less than a 400 meter trail that lasts the same

[keen kite]

make snipers hitscan

[topaz acorn]

though I wouldn't say no to its time being cut in half

[river pike]

its currently like 2 or 3 seconds (oki said he changed it to 2 instead of 3 without updating the patch notes, but it may be 3 still..), but if you fire a bullet that travels for more than 3 seconds, it will gradually start dissappearing from the shooter and outwards?

[topaz acorn]

I don't think it does, it seems more like it lands then the timer starts. then again, I 'm not shooting so far that the bullet takes 2-3 seconds to arrive.

[eternal coyote]

Huh? Despite the trail you couldnt pinpoint the sniper more than the gunsound would have - and you even walked past him and only found his location after he made footsteps and more noise?

You would have found that sniper regardless of trail because of the sound of the gun and his footsteps

[past yacht]

Snipers are mad, they want to make 100 kills per round without deaths

[keen kite]

I haven’t seen any do this yet

[river pike]

Wrong

[eternal coyote]

The clip you posted strongly suggests what I said

[midnight saffron]

It’s not a skill crutch when snipers have almost no drop, have huge range, and enemies have head hitboxes 3x the volume of other fps. It’s called balance.

The more I play sniper, the more I think this thread is just a lot of people bitching because they get killed more easily. I still regularly go 5:1, 10:1, or more for K/D ratios.
Snipers are incredibly strong in this game. This is one measure Oki and team have implemented to balance the odds.

[keen kite]

rookie numbers

[midnight saffron]

Exactly my point.

[keen kite]

you should be going at least 50kd every game

[midnight saffron]

Difference between 50/5 and 50/1 is only four deaths.

[keen kite]

4 deaths too many

[midnight saffron]

5 deaths too many

[leaden gazelle]

C) remove snipers.
pros : no crying snipers and campers
cons : none

[shy lake]

remove zoom zoom smg players so we can have a inserting fps without all the spray and pray

[leaden gazelle]

So no fps in fps game?

[buoyant fractal]

The trail is just a tad bit to smokey as that is more unrealistic... It's like you modify the round with a smoke grenade attatched to it.

[woeful knoll]

I had I think like a 98-11 127p Frontline recon game the other day. The attachments outside of the suppressor are garbage. IMO the only grip worth using is the angled grip for aim down time.

As a golden l96 user, the m200 has been so far out of whack with the other snipers for ages.

I used to use bipod msr, not anymore with trails that's just begging to be counter-sniped or dmrd. God forbid you use a bipod on a sniper rifle that isn't the m200.

I really didn't have a problem with glint post fov changes. Give recon more diverse buildables and actually balance the snipers, backpack utility choices, stuff I or others have outlined in the sniper rifles thread.

I just want the trails tweaked. I'd much rather give LMGS more flinching/suppression utility to counter snipers.

[shy lake]

there where plenty of fps games released before a single smg made it into the games

[rapid agate]

as long as there are weapons in the game skilled players will still destroy you

[leaden gazelle]

^

people will zoom zoom with something like AK or machinegun too

[shy lake]

we are not talking about skilled players here only the no brain rush into 3 lmg that defend a choke hold kind. Those are the ones oki made the smoke trails for not the good players.

[viral cosmos]

yo add trails for dmrs also

[delicate brook]

no

[floral parcel]

A) Allow an attachment(like suppressors) to greatly reduce or remove trails when equipped B) Make it so trails only appear when the shot has traveled further than 200m C) Make its so the trails dissipates (30~45% of the line will be super faint and hard to trace) from the point it was shot so the enemy can still see the trail and know they were shot but it isnt a straight line all the way to the shooter D) Greatly reduce the current duration(make the last anywhere from 0.4~1.5 secs) of the trails and lower their visibility. ANY of these changes or a mix could WORK i just want to SEE a CHANGE to the CURRENT ones

[topaz acorn]

A is still stupid especially since suppressor have gotten buffed.
B defeats the point
C could work,would just be better the be based of how far from the bullet is, with it ending at a set distance
D, nobody who is against trails would like this because they don't want a trail leading back to them

[rapid agate]

how did suppressors get buffed?

[topaz acorn]

they no longer lower your velocity and in fact buff it to either equal too or just under the ranger.

their is other buffs, or rather removal of debuffs, but thats the important one here.

[floral parcel]

bro youre pro trails since the beginning of this thread move on already

[modest field]

I don’t see anything wrong with the trails.

[topaz acorn]

you have obviously not read shit buddy.

[rapid agate]

trails really do not matter that much

you can still absolutely destroy people on recon

[vital lion]

Careful, I said that earlier and got absolutely destroyed (:

[abstract coral]

for point A) yeah we want new snipers to have an even bigger disadv than they already have

[tiny rain]

I say keep the trail. Makes it more fair

[keen kite]

not fair for non snipers they don’t get a trail

[modest field]

???

Non-snipers don't need a trail, they fire more often, so you can easily locate their position. Also they don't OHK.

[glass star]

Keep trail remove completely unrealistic scope glare

[modest field]

That's what I actually prefer, but snipers are too easy to use to remove glint imo.

[glass star]

Yeah

Just like irl good luck finding them lol

Would be to much

[modest field]

Planetside 2's snipers have no glint and can literally turn invisible. But their tracers are super noticeable.

[glass star]

See now i used to snipe on BF4 and dont remember any scope glint

But we still found the snipers

[modest field]

Bf4 had scope glint. There just weren't that many snipers compared to Battlebit because it was harder to do and less players ofc

It was also very minor.

[glass star]

Makes sense

I still have to pass up my longest BF4 kill on BBR

Had a 2500ish on 4 and only a 1930 on bbr

[broken bobcat]

Nerf snipers again

We need to bring that 15-20 kills per match down to 10-15 it’s oppressive

[keen kite]

💀💀

15-20 😭

That’s below average

[shy lake]

do we need to paint the enemies red and allies blue to make it fairer to those with zero awareness too? wtf when is the coddling of modern gamers end?

[uncut shale]

So snipers should be nerfed because some guy is playing dmrs on night maps that are actually picked once every 20 matches?

[broken bobcat]

Yes hopefully

[uncut shale]

Cant argue with that logic

[sleek fox]

you should

[tiny rain]

Not about coddling just what makes it fun for everyone

[covert wolf]

what if trail visibility became more intense based on how many shots are fired at a time? then a sniper with better timing between shots isn't as punished as one that takes multiple tries to hit their target or has hit multiple targets.

again, i prefer the trail to be removed completely. there are multiple players on the battlefield that have no business seeing it unless they were actually in any danger.

[vital lion]

This thread: I missed a shot and this is NOT a skill issue I still want to be invisible

Meanwhile this dude:
#clips-streams-videos message

[viral cosmos]

i haven't noticed anything too bad after trails were added and can still consistently go 100+ on frontline matches, the only detriment that was added was that fucking uncalled for dmr buff, annoying ass mfs, revert that shit or like i said, give the pests trails or some other inconvenience

[vital lion]

Yep dmrs are cancer

[floral parcel]

You realize even if you hit the shot the trail is still visible to evryone in the area, thats the point of the thread and that is the main issue I have with them

[vital lion]

#clips-streams-videos message ?

[modest field]

It's honestly not as bad as this thread makes it, it's mostly placebo.

[tiny rain]

Yeah

The DMRs aren't insanely annoying and I think the snipers are well enough with the trail

[austere storm]

Bruh idk who yall are playing but I die to DMRs very rarely unless I'm making very bad decisions 🤨

[tiny rain]

depends on the mode maybe. I only play 64 v 64 so idk

[floral parcel]

Legit just a clip of a good player, I've hit clips like that before but that doesn't encompass the whole round and how it plays out 90% of the whole round

[lament sapphire]

Yeah. The guy in the clip literally has one of the mastery skins for the L96. Which takes how many thousands of kills to unlock?

[austere storm]

Only 3000 for bronze but I think his is gold which is 10k 💀

[floral parcel]

2500 bronze, 5000 silver, 10000 gold

[lament sapphire]

Exactly. And Ojaa wants to pretend like the guy in this clip is an average recon lol

[austere storm]

I mean I got 10k Evo kills and I'm extremely average 💀

Jking but yeah it's hard to balance certain weapons across all skills levels in rhe game

[lament sapphire]

10k with the Evo?? Why would you put yourself through that lol

[austere storm]

Because Evo underrated 🗣🗣🗣

I just really enjoy using it tbh

It's the only gun that makes me feel something when I wipe a room out neuron activation

[viral cosmos]

i dont die to them often, they just absurdly annoying

i wont speak for other types of recon players but for the way i play trails made almost no difference, if thats what oki intended with them looks like he succeeded and trails should be kept

with maybe some adjustments to visibility idk

thing about current dmr is people are playing them like they would with a sniper, and since many already struggle with consistently hitting headshots why not go for the alternative with no bolt, no trail and more silent that can also 2-shot body shot

[rapid agate]

for most recon players trails make no difference because their location is known after the first shot, it is simply a matter of aim and reaction time to see who manages to kill first.
i would like to see trails start from 50m away.
im not sure if this is a good number but i think this would help closer, sneaky sniping.
the long range, campy playstyle should be discouraged because that playstyle makes the game less fun for other players.

[lament sapphire]

Instead of 50m, let’s do 200m. So glint and trails start at the same distance

[rapid agate]

200 is too far imo because most engagements are within that range

[lament sapphire]

I’m aiming for consistency haha so that glint and trails are at the same starting distance

[topaz acorn]

its an option, I still like my follow the bullet as a better one though.

[foggy kite]

still should remove trails entirely

[tiny rain]

No

[lament sapphire]

Yes please

[solar glade]

There's nothing wrong with the bullet trails for snipers.

[tiny rain]

Exactly

Like adapt overcome

[lament sapphire]

Except that it gives away the exact location of a recon. A regular bullet tracer was enough but a 3 second trail right back to your exact location is overkill.

Would be better if the trail didn’t start until 200m out like glint.

[solar glade]

In most situations, the trail only gives you a general direction as to where the sniper is. The glint will still be the primary factor to you being given away

If you move between kills and change position slightly (or just hit your shots so people don't have a chance to follow the trail), you can still go on insane games with a sniper

[covert wolf]

we already had sound and the glint as indicators that revealed a sniper's position as well as glint being added for medium scopes in an earlier patch. fact of the matter is that the addition of trails were*** never needed***.

snipers were only a rising problem because of medium scopes lacking glint. i dont think they were a significant problem beyond that. people just need to accept that other players dont want to run and gun.

[solar glade]

Or... Snipers also need to accept that being one shot from a player who you didn't know was there (and had limited ability to find) was incredibly frustrating. Yes, scope glints help, but a trails also give you an idea of where the threat is coming from and how to react as a regular player.

[covert wolf]

one shot hardly means anything when the game offers so many other ways to one shot players and ttk in general is very low.

[solar glade]

Again, if you are a good sniper and can prioritize targets, the bullet trails can easily be countered and you can stay in a single position for some time before needing to move. And then... You move position to keep enemies guessing.

[solar glade]

There's no other weapon in the game that provides one shot kills other than some pistols?

[lament sapphire]

One of the recon’s best tools is concealment. Glint, trails, and (crazy) sound spread have completely removed that. Also it is maddening when random people notice the trail and come looking for you. A person who would not even notice me is now engaged in a manhunt. People love killing recons and always drop what they are doing to come looking for you. It makes flaking with a sniper so much less enjoyable. Keep sound spread and glint if we must…but please rework trails

[delicate brook]

hi cami

[covert wolf]

so i guess is all comes down to the only function of the weapon that makes it a sniper (range and power)? again, you already had glint and sound to compensate for its power and range. smoke trail was not needed. and again, its not like getting one shot is such a big deal when TTK in general is so low. if they want to punish people for using a weapon for its basic function, then there needs to be a HUD messege whenever an smg user is nearby.

[delicate brook]

trails arent that bad but they defintely last too long

3 seconds is way too much time

or just make it fade the starting point of the trail

rather than fading the whole trail at once

cause right now the smoke trails look like sperm trails

[covert wolf]

which is why i suggested this.
#1186153267814740029 message

[delicate brook]

meh

[solar glade]

Reworking trails to be around for less time is fine. But I feel like we are completely overstating how "nerfed" snipers are as a result of this change.

Yes, if you sit in one spot for a long time, you are going to be manhunted.

That happened regardless. Only now, the changes mean that players have a chance to fine you and you can't just sit in one spot for free all game.

As a sniper, you should still be moving between kills OR so efficient at killing people to ensure that no one has a chance to see where you are shooting from.

The difference between a sniper and SMG player for the purposes of the low TTK argument is that a sniper shot from hundreds of meters away presents no opportunity for counterplay. It's not a matter of you necessarily being out of position, or that you didn't aim as well as the SMG player, or whatever have you - that sniper was just in the right position at the right time to spot you. And yes, aiming to score that headshot and stuff requires skill, and succesfully doing it on repeat can make you one of the most efficient players in the lobby. But a playstyle like that, that allows consistent OHKs requires a fitting downside in the event that you fuck it up. Scope glints, bullet trails and sound travel are the steps required to make that balance happen.

[uncut shale]

I honestly hadnt played a game with bullet trails for snipers before

I never saw the need for them in any game

[solar glade]

There was also a time where we didn't play a game with scope glints. Just because it wasn't around before doesn't mean it shouldn't be here now.

[lament sapphire]

There’s nothing wrong with sitting in a good position…you could be in a good flank position, protecting a base, or protecting your team’s flank. Trails coddle players and punish recons. I don’t think people would be so annoyed with trails if they didn’t last so long or didn’t start till 200m (like glint). But they need a reworking.

[covert wolf]

again. there was glint and sound. smoke trail was not needed.

[uncut shale]

It definitely breaks the immersion. I dont think it fits on a game that isnt incredibly arcady

You can make the scopes move more even when holding breath instead if you want snipers to be harder to play

[covert wolf]

if you think it was needed because of camping snipers, then that sound biased.

[uncut shale]

Smgs should never have counterplay vs snipers that are 500+ meters away

[solar glade]

There is if there is no counter to it. You shouldn't be able to sit in one spot the whole time and be unspottable while one-shotting players. There needs to be healthy counterplay to that.

[covert wolf]

you HAD a counter. it was glint.

now you have glint + trail.

[solar glade]

Again. Smoke trails are really, really not the end of the world.

[lament sapphire]

You’re assuming I sit 200m+ away from the battlefield. I don’t

[covert wolf]

yet you defend them like they are so essential.

[solar glade]

They aren't essential, but they also aren't as harmful as you all make them out to be.

[covert wolf]

then remove them.

[uncut shale]

Glints are more than enough imo

[lament sapphire]

Glint and sound spread were more than enough. Trails in their current state are over kill

[solar glade]

They give you a general idea of where a sniper is coming from, something that glints didn't do unless you saw the sniper themselves with the glint.

[lament sapphire]

Maybe people should…be aware of their surroundings…it’s a battlefield. Or should we coddle players more ?

[uncut shale]

Trails just seem like an overreaction. I would expect it in something like fortnite.
We didnt have them in BF and we were fine

[covert wolf]

again, your saying this, but you also say they are not essential. you have very conflicting arguments.

[lament sapphire]

I can see an argument for trails if a sniper is sitting 200m+ away from the battlefield. But for the recons that are closer to the engagements…it’s too much.

[uncut shale]

If you want to nerf snipers then changing the stability when looking through the scope is a much better change that makes sniping harder.
Glints and sound give you the location. For snipers getting headshots is harder because of the scope stability

Trail just seems like an aim assist fix for someone that cant aim properly

[tiny rain]

Maybe the duration of the trail can be decreased

Because removing the whole trail sucks for non-snipers. Just would make the game not so fun when you can’t see ppl who are downing you from across the map

[covert wolf]

except you could. you still have glint. glint was added to medium scopes too, and the smoke trail was only a recent addition. as far as i knew, nobody asked for a trail. people could find snipers just fine without trail, and the only real issue was snipers using medium scopes without glint.

[tiny rain]

I was not aware of that context. Still though idk why people are so upset about the trail. You can still get your snipes in you just can’t camp in a position forever

I still think it makes it fair. But I guess I could see why people who love sniping hate the trail

[topaz acorn]

the only thing that needs to change is how long the trail is

[lament sapphire]

I still think they should treat trails the same way they treat glint. If we must keep them…dont make them appear until 200m

[tiny rain]

I can get behind a shorter duration

[tiny rain]

I say less. If the glints don’t show until 200m and trails don’t either then there’s no way of finding a sniper

[topaz acorn]

trailes being exactly as long as the distance from gun to target is the actual problem

[lament sapphire]

There’s nothing wrong with holding a good position… if you’re protecting your team’s flank, protecting a base, or have a good flank position

[topaz acorn]

so if we just cut down how long the trail actually is, problem solved.

[tiny rain]

Yes but it isn’t a very fun experience for everyone else if you’re just in a lil hole taking people out without anyone knowing where you are

[topaz acorn]

staying in one spot is suicide for anyclass, if you are trying to do that you are doing it wrong

[lament sapphire]

You could always look around…there’s glint and sound spread

[topaz acorn]

sound is 2 kilometers

600 if they are using a suppresor

good fucking luck using sound to find a sniper

[tiny rain]

Fr

In a battlefield

[lament sapphire]

Especially if you’re using a sniper because your exact position is given away with every shot

[tiny rain]

Totally cap

[lament sapphire]

No cap

[topaz acorn]

my man thats how it is for every class

[tiny rain]

I’ve held positions as a sniper for a while. I think you’re over exaggerating

[topaz acorn]

it used to not be that way for sniper at all

[lament sapphire]

Every class has trails?

[topaz acorn]

stop trying to strawman numbnuts.

[tiny rain]

Just move to a different position

Isn’t that much of a pain. You can still snipe

[lament sapphire]

Leave my nuts out of this

[topaz acorn]

holding angles for more than a few seconds is stupid and most times gets you killed very quickly because you are very obvious.

being close range you generally fire more than one round, and your model ain't exactly hard to miss

no matter how sneaky you think you are.

[lament sapphire]

You should be able to do that if you’re a recon…one of your main tools is concealment. Trails are overkill

[topaz acorn]

not really

[tiny rain]

Not really

[lament sapphire]

Yes really

[topaz acorn]

nope.

[tiny rain]

No

Just adapt

[topaz acorn]

because that is what people hate about the class lol

[tiny rain]

Like a happy soldier

[lament sapphire]

Let’s coddle players yo

[topaz acorn]

if you bothered to actually adapt, you would realize that letting a position breath and moving some 10-20 meters will throw off all but the most dedicated counter snipers

but you obviously need to be coddled

[lament sapphire]

Glint and sound spread was good enough. Trials was a step too far

[topaz acorn]

Glint is hardly a big deal now

sound spread covers the entire fucking map

[covert wolf]

adapt to camping snipers
difficulty: impossible.

apparently.

[topaz acorn]

I love camping snipers, they are easy as all hell to deal with

[lament sapphire]

Hhnnggggg

[tiny rain]

I’ve said it before

Not about coddling

It’s about an enjoyable experience for everyone

[lament sapphire]

Coddle

[tiny rain]

Not about nerds camping one position

[topaz acorn]

my man not realising that with the buffs to glint and what is a net postive change to snipers sounds

[lament sapphire]

If they are so easy to deal with why do you need trails?

[topaz acorn]

snipers are far harder to find

[topaz acorn]

again with the strawman pyle.

[lament sapphire]

Trails need a rework

That’s something we can agree on right?

[topaz acorn]

yes, because a trail to a posistion far away is not that healthy and is more than what was intended. the trail should have been an aid to a direction, not to a posistion.

duration could be lower, but eagle eyes people can still use that if they are quick enough

[tiny rain]

Agreed

[lament sapphire]

Cool let’s do that

[topaz acorn]

So I figure the length itself needs to be shortened to a certain distance from the bullet, still giving a direction, but not the actual position. I say 50 meters is a good point, long enough to be a direction aid, but not long enough to mess with any sniper (except for the badasses
using bolts within 50 anyway)

[tiny rain]

I think a flashing billboard should appear behind a sniper every time they get a kill

[lament sapphire]

I still think snipers should be fitted in clown suites personally

[tiny rain]

For sure

[lament sapphire]

With those big red goofy shoes that squeak

[rapid agate]

i don't think it matters what recon was like before all the changes

the important part is that recon js still very viable

the starting distance and dispersion time could be reduced

but i think having trails is good because it makes sitting in one spot not viable and rewards more reaction time/aim when sniping.

if people know where you are you have to reposition, preaim, and acquire targets quickly to avoid being countersniped or flanked.

[delicate brook]

what if it actually followed the bullet instead of just being a long line pointing to the sniper

almost like a longer normal bullet trail

but a lot longer

[rapid agate]

so like a huge tracer basically

[covert wolf]

the reason being is that sniper (or long range in general) is the only class that can escape the completely unhinged mobility CQC and explosion spam meta. there are also too many maps that lack basic infantry pathing/cover. playing everything else is a chore in comparison.

[rapid agate]

if you dont want to play the game, dont play the game. recons shouldn't be able to do nothing and get free kills all game. that's just boring.

and yes the maps need more cover. the trails are an attempt to address this fact and level the playing field between other classes and recon.

[delicate brook]

yeah

a longer tracer

cuz right now the whole trail disapates at once and it looks stupid af

would make more sense if it disapated starting from the barrel

and it would nerf the trail slightly

[rapid agate]

yeah sure

people who snipe at close ranges shouldnt be affected by trails

[vital lion]

There you go. Maybe they won't eat you alive for such controversial opinion

Like they did to me hehe

[floral parcel]

tbh this was my main point cause rn up close sniping is a pain, not impossible but a pain in the butt as you gotta pick and choose youre fight carefully sub 150m or the whole enemy team is on you

[lament sapphire]

You deserved it teh he he

[viral cosmos]

i'm interested in how you were playing close range to be affected so heavily by trail addition

[vital lion]

I got 👎 in discord thread
You got trails in game

Seems fair to me

[viral cosmos]

were you mainly flanking to a hidden position behind enemies and farming them from behind or?

[topaz acorn]

he's saying 150 is close range

[viral cosmos]

i mean yea no matter what distance if you play standing still mfs will eventually catch on and focus you down

and finding out where shots come from even without trails was pretty easy too

[topaz acorn]

2-3 shots and then move, take like a 5-10 second break and you should be mostly clear even if you just moved to the other side of the rock. served me well so far.

[lament sapphire]

Here yah go, you can have another one 🙂

[hearty olive]

Finding a good off angle spot that people overlook near the frontlines is no longer viable due to the tracers imo. Im talking about 100-150m engagements and especially when you flank teams from a sneaky off angle. The trails encourage more snipers to camp and punishes players who are actually engaging in the more closely imo

Its easily fine if Oki made trails start at 100-150m tho

I’d much rather have worse glint pneumonia long range scope but no trails tbh

[viscid trail]

Thats how you are supposed to play Recon, from far and not using m200/l96 as a med range shotgun

[floral parcel]

The main complaint of snipers is that they sit out in the middle of nowhere hundreds of meters away from action and all trails do is encourage that play style, different play styles with a weapon that takes skill shouldn't be so heavily hindered because you shot once and everyone around you can now pinpoint where you are without even being near or part of the gunfight

[covert wolf]

yes. there were many different ways to make extremely long range sniping harder by itself. could have increased glint visibility at further ranges. could have made breath and sway management a lot harder to manage. they could have added a trail that was only visible further away from the shooter. instead the trail as just makes it tougher to play all sniper playstyles.

[topaz acorn]

it really doesn't. it might be annoying that you can't sit in one spot and have basically nobody ever find you, but its not harder.

[umbral field]

"Tougher to play all sniper playstyles"

Me dropping 70 by helping thin out the enemy frontline:

❓❓

Just don't sit on one angle, there's cover in the game that you can use to snipe from multiple angles within the same area

Just mix it up

It's like when people get mad in CoD or Battlefield when they die going to the same angle or spot, you gotta move or you're just a easy target to get farmed on if someone feels like it.

[shy lake]

its not about the k/d its about the intent and choice of playstyle. An edge of map player that is more then 1000meter away from the enemy they are fighting are hardly affected at all with sniper trails, heck argubly once they set up a few sandbags they can more or less chill in their nest for the rest of the match since most would not bother to travel more then 1000meters to kill them or switch to recon to countersnipe.

What trails instantly destroy however is stealth and close range sniping. Before you could sneak "behind" enemy lines and setup a sniper nest in a building where you only view to the outside world where a small hole you made with a pickaxe.
Before you could take out a few people that way and keep them guessing before you switched position. Now the trails will instantly show you off for everyone who as much as look in the general area of the map.

I wonder if those of you who keep bringing up the beaten to death old horse of just move around has even played game modes outside of conquest.
There will not be 1-5 people looking into the general area of where i as a player is in 127v127 domination not in 64v64 rush.

The vast real estate of conquest does not exists in other gamemodes.

[umbral field]

I play the frontline and dom servers nearly 24/7

That is my experience i'm speaking from

[rough pilot]

B good idea
also reduce the time it stays up

[shy void]

I think one of the biggest talking point/arguments that many people are just glancing over and not realizing is the biggest problem when it comes to sniper trails and that is : Maps. I think the map layouts is the biggest problem that many players are touching on within this thread. With the introduction to sniper trails it did clearly change up the "meta" of how people played the game, but it did drastically change up the maps as well. Previously before the update players would climb the giant cranes in the map and rain bullets from above on unexpecting players. Now players spend ample time trying to get to said locations and are easily spotted now because there is a direct line to and from where they are at. IF a player wants to find the sniper that just killed them they can easily just look for the sniper and find them just from the trail.

The main problem is that the change was implemented to help counter one specific issue, but it doesn't fix sniping as a hole and rather hurts players in general. The entire point of a sniper is to be hidden it's literally why ghillie suits exist. At some point your spot will be found out and people will come after you and that is fine, but its still counter intuitive to the problem. If the problem people are having is people are sniping from safe zones or the lobbies are filled with snipers who aren't pushing the objective then that is an entirely different problem that has to be addressed.

Regardless of what anyone says you can easily counter snipers. Smoke Grenades exist and Marksmen Rifles have 0 glint and no trail. Just saying..If the issue is that people are sitting 1000 meters back and sniping at long distances then maybe we should look at the map layout and figure out ways people can get to them.

[rapid agate]

very few people actually play at 1000m, most snipers are at 200-400m, sitting on a hill somewhere. those are the people that trails are targeted at.

there are a lot of situations where trails do not matter since your location is known anyway. in frontline often snipers just line up and take shots at each other, without really trying to stay hidden. in this type of scenario trails do not hurt the sniper, but do benefit other players that are shot at.

but you're right that trails hurt close range snipers the most, so there needs to be a starting range for trails like 50m.

i think glint is better than trails though, because it punishes not using cover and encourages countersniping while not punishing flanking snipers. trails could also be removed but i think if that happens glint should be increased. the upper limit on glint range for medium scopes should be removed.

[rapid agate]

i think it is universally agreed that maps are an issue, but we don't discuss it as much because

1. they're not gonna fire vilaskis
2. fixing all the maps is gonna take a long time and a ton of effort compared to altering trails

[shy void]

I only play 32v32 and sniper trails have changed everything for me. As soon as I miss a shot the players instantly know where I am at and can see my exact location. I am constantly hunted ALWAYS as a sniper and they have plenty of access to me 99% of the time. I maybe the only one at this point, but I have given up on using medium range scopes because of sniper trails. IF I'm going to be easily spotted because I miss I might as well just use a long range scope and be more accurate.

[shy void]

I'm not saying to fire Vilaskis he's awesome, but the point I'm trying to make is Oki and the team are getting feedback from somewhere about people complaining about the game and snipers being an issue and they are just simply putting a band aid on the situation and not trying to fix it as a whole. Oki's decision for putting trails in the game was simply because Battlefield had it and snipers were still an issue so we might as well doesn't resolve the fact.

[rapid agate]

firing vilaskis was a joke but my point is that they're not going to easily fix the maps
i dont think band aid solution is the right word, as properly done glint or trails can actually address a lot of the problem

[shy void]

But again the problem is a skill issue down to the very point.

I'm fine with glint btw

Trails is the problem at hand

[rapid agate]

to me glint and trails are attempting to address three things:

1. non-recon players having skill issue not being able to avoid snipers. doesn't mean it should be ignored because new player impressions are important
2. disconnect from the game. non-recons can't do anything to snipers but hide and ignore them.
3. sniping is too easy (and boring). there's little thought involved besides point and aim. sniping should require proper positioning and use of cover (to avoid being spotted/countersniped)

[gentle patio]

Maybe if you shoot bullets too fast, the barrel heats up and causes the bullet to have the trail instead of just having a trail always

[rapid agate]

maybe would make sense on an lmg but sniper rifles already shoot quite slowly

[shy void]

1. Unfortunately you cannot fix it period. It's a skill issue once they get a better understanding of the game it will change.
2. Like I said it comes down to maps. People keep saying they can't do anything except run and hide, but I strongly disagree. If you find where they are at RPG's/ and smoke grenades change a lot.
3. That comes down to the player, I position myself to hide my glint from certain angles. The better the player the more understanding they would have.

[shy void]

Again the point I was about to make touches on this.The problem with sniper trails in general is people keep saying snipers over and over again.

If a majority of gun fights are being taken at 200-400m and most players are missing shots then what is the point in using a sniper when Marksmen rifles aren't getting changed at all.

[rapid agate]

1. trails do address this issue though, by allowing players to tell when they are being shot at and where they are being shot from. as a new player it is quite helpful, especially when the sniper closely misses you. glint addresses it somewhat but not as well
2. yeah pretty much, but telling people where snipers are can reduce this sense of helplessness
3. yep, it should depend on skill. without glint or trails you can just scope in forever and not move.

[shy void]

Since the recent change I die more to players who have access to marksmen rifles. The die to me swap to a marksmen rifle with a medium scope that has no glint and just two shot me before I can find them.

[gentle patio]

yesterday I wanted to play sniper and go for stealth headshots, trying to only shoot when I thought it was going to be a headshot, but I knew it would really only work on a marksman rifle due to the trail

[rapid agate]

dmrs need some sort of nerf tbh

[shy void]

but thats my point and im glad you said it.

[gentle patio]

maybe there should be more counterplay to snipers than ignoring them. a start could possibly be giving the glint machine to more classes

[shy void]

The glint trophy system is dumb

it has a timer at which it scopes in and out

[gentle patio]

Yeah, I only used it once before I made sure I was actually using the trophy system

[shy void]

Yea it has no place in the game

99% of the time it's not even tall enough to be seen through a window

I compare everything to sniping back in Call of Duty. Acog/Medium Scopes always swayed back and forth and could be used at shorter distances for those who wanted it. Medium scopes in BB have 0 downsides until the most recent update having the glint past 200m. If you forced players to choose between a sway back and forth or having sniper glint from using a long range scope we wouldn't need trails to begin with. @rapid agate

[gentle patio]

I dont want to go the route of "give other classes snipers" because its stupid, but on a totally unrelated note, wouldnt it be cool if the engineer had a .50 bmg (not one shot to the body, maybe has less than perfect accuracy) to use against vehicles?

also a considerable nerf to snipers that could warrent removing trails could be the armor rework. if helmets are able to be replenished, lethal headshots will happen less often

[shy void]

The armor is already in the game and majority of players dont use it which is the biggest problem which is something else the devs have to look at.

Problem is more players are forced to use the 0 armor pieces because it gives them more ammo.

The people who do use the armor are the ones that I curse at myself and wish I was just using a Marksmen rifle cause it takes me 3 shots to kill them in the body.

[gentle patio]

maybe the armor could instead have slots that you can put stuff in rather than a set amount of a specific buff, like you could have large armor that gives you many slots, and then choose to use more slots for ammo than armor, and sacrifice a gadget for more armor

(although I guess this is going a bit off topic from the thread)

[shy void]

It is something that would have to be fine tuned really well. And the way that is currently sits you want to be more tanky run armor and if you prefer the ammo dont use armor.

Sniper Trails have 0 purpose if you change.

Medium scopes while zoomed sway back and forth and I would even say at 100m+ have glint while zoomed.
Long Range scopes while zoomed obviously gives glint but you can hold your breath.

Make more sniper "environments" destructible and allow for people to blow them up. Seems like a majority of new maps have buildings or environments that cannot be blown up and it blows my mind because that is what I enjoyed about the OG maps. #District
IF you really care about going the extra mile then find a purpose for attachments.* I might be the only sniper using Long Suppressor at this point.* Also fix the horrible Thermal Scope.

SOUND is everything. The new sound update has made everything so much better to differentiate a sniper bullet vs a normal bullet. Keep fine tuning that system and all in all you fix a majority of the problem.