Squad types with a vehicle focus.

[radiant heath]

In addition to the 3 squad types already mentioned here #dev-wip message, there should be squads for people who want to play predominantly with vehicles ingame such as Helicopters or tanks/armor vehicles.

For helicopters, the tooltip could be for:

• people who want to be dropped off behind enemy lines or want to be hotdropped into risky places
• for gunners
• for repairers & crew medics

For Tanks:

• Infantry escort
• Fortification builders
• Spotters & gunners
• Drone spotting and callouts

[pallid narwhal]

@radiant heath

Transport Squad

• Group up with people who plays mainly vehicles.

--- Helicopters ---

• Gunners
• Repairmens
• Medics
• Pilot

[median seal]

Vietnam Flashbacks of Transport Birds with RPG squads

[umbral heron]

Oki, I dont see tactical depth in the game to warrant the tactical Squad, yet

[radiant heath]

A helicopter is at it's best when it's dropping loads of people (rats) behind enemy lines onto a backcap objectives. Might be could to mention that too. Definetly appeals to some people I think

[pallid narwhal]

@umbral heron You don't, there is rarely you actually do group up those who likes it and game is 1000% fun

It's so rare I grouped up with those guys

but every moment was gold

[umbral heron]

I am not finished yet but i am working on a vehicle rework proposal that would add more tatctical depth.

[pallid narwhal]

I cannot create a new catogory for each tank,heli etc

only one

so I guess vehicular squad makes more sense?

[umbral heron]

Should also include anti vehicle

[zinc dome]

Is there any indicator in the squad list as to what squad is what type ?
Is there a time frame where a squad type is auto picked or do you not spawn till its chosen?

[pallid narwhal]

I will show the squad types on squad menu + on scoreboard

[zinc dome]

Is there anything that prevents people from picking default and joining a tactical squad ?

[radiant heath]

The gameplay differs wildly between a tank, humvee, apc than it does to a helicopter squad so I think it should be seperated.

[umbral heron]

default squad type selection in here or settings so you dont have to select each time?

[pallid narwhal]

hmm..

have an idea

one sec

I got an idea.

[zinc dome]

Shit he cookin

[median seal]

I know this is probably too much, and not good game design, but would be cool if gameplay rules was altered depending on the squad.

Like Vehicle squad can only spawn on vehicles.
Sniper Squad can only spawn on Radio
Tactical Squads can only spawn on Radio etc...

Etc... Not saying this is perfect balance or anything, but rules along those lines may be good to alter gameplay styles further.

[umbral heron]

I dont think thats a good idea

[pallid narwhal]

Not 100% but I was thinking of some buffs based on what squad you are playing and if you are doing what squad supposed to do, get more XP on certain things

but that's another time's dicsussion

[zinc dome]

Bold but uh. Thats more restricting than class roles. Please no

[pallid narwhal]

let's get the grouping for now

[median seal]

Sounds like a good way to encourage varied playstyles.

[umbral heron]

Suicide C4 Squad when?

[radiant heath]

People who are in a Helicopter squad should go down the repel ropes faster and get xp for doing so, aswell as for successfully capping once dropped off

[median seal]

Was just thinking about what the devs talked about in their devcast and it sounded like something in that spirit would maybe fit.

As I wrote 2 times in the original post though, I know it's not good game design and probably not a good idea.
But something in that spirit, that there are merits to each squad type, depending on what gameplay you want to do.

So that its not just "i'll join a recon squad, but there's no change in gameplay so I'll just play SMG medic"

[raw jay]

Since we have already started to separate the squads, how about improving the second places for helicopters?

[zinc dome]

👍 I like where the spirit is at, more rewards for doing the things you say you are going to do. Help the team, all good things. The implimentation, time and place is the issue.

[median seal]

But as Oki said, rather rewarding through exp is probably better.

He did speak about, and everyone knows the spawn system is the worst thing about BBR atm and the way it plays, as this game is just "Flank and die, respawn and flank and die". Oki and the devs talked at length about how they want to fix this "flank and die, but dont participate in the objective" gameplay, so thought maybe changing how you can spawn depending on squad type was a neat idea.
Anyways, I do totally agree that it's not really the answer, time nor place.

[visual elk]

Wow, first positive vehicle related change since RCB fiasco

[radiant heath]

For the tooltip I definetly think there should be an emphasis on the relationship between a tank and the infantry in a squad. Infantry players in a vehicle squad should focus on protecing the tank. What I like to do when I'm playing with friends is aggressively act as an infantry escort for my tank and let them push up into the action/frontline without getting c4'd. I also can spend the whole game drone spotting for them too and doing callouts as I like the gameplay. So I think such things should be added to the tooltip for people who want deeper more teamwork oriented gameplay.

[zinc dome]

The majority of players wont read more than a few words of a tooltip

[median seal]

Sucks that it is like this man ;_;

[visual elk]

Honestly, that doesn't sounds as much fun as rushing towards meat grinder and getting kills on waki bridge. Especially when any selfrepecting tank player will not push in this game

[zinc dome]

Its part of the human condition, generally. The simpler a concept is, and ideally the less reading required, the better it is.

It also prevents needing to translate things to other languages

[pallid narwhal]

@radiant heath

Sort I was going with this

again, still working on the UI

[radiant heath]

A tank having faith in his squad would encourage him to push up. Furthermore if Oki is interested in buffs then there could be an XP radius for the tank so the infantry who are within and get kills are encouraged. Many pekrs/buffs can be thought of

[median seal]

Would maybe changing the max size of such squads be a good idea?

A tank crew is 3 people. A squad is 8, so it may be a bad fit, kinda??

Sniper squads could also be smaller maybe?

AND, maybe squad points can be rewarded differently depending on the squad type?

What if sniper squads got squad points for spotting assists?

[raw jay]

It makes sense to increase the amount of experience for repairing the squad’s equipment. This will give you motivation to play more for the team.

[radiant heath]

For the tank

• Requires infantry escort

[pallid narwhal]

let's play right now, and later, post as a #1170727258537865367, let's hear what people thing.

[visual elk]

Faith does nothing to 5 tandems out of nearest bushes you can't see.
XP radious is interesting idea, honestly, tho I kind of can't imagine how to implement that correctly, so it's easy to understand and brings any benefits

[pallid narwhal]

infantry escort is hard, they have to keep up all time, not sure if it's viable all the time

[visual elk]

It's not, tank will sit in one place for 3 minuets just to drive of faster than inf can run

Playes will struggle with keeping up, or will be bored by sitting in one position

[radiant heath]

It is hard but when a US tank is getting 8 man kills with a single HE shell on tensatown conquest right up to the D frontline, with the squad nearby protecting point it's hella fun.

Right in the thick of it.

Golden moment 👍

[pallid narwhal]

I can fit one last more

only 2 feels empty

[zinc dome]

What else we got, atvs and jeeps? room for the splatter squad

[visual elk]

That looks nice

[pallid narwhal]

ground transport squad?

but I bet it won't be choosen at all

[zinc dome]

I dont know how long you could support that concept as a squad but thats the only vehicles i can think of

I mean id do it, but i like running people over

[vernal fog]

nerf squad spawns and people will pick it all the time

[zinc dome]

this is about the squad focus, no mechanic changes

[vernal fog]

no reason to use ground transport if you can just spawn in to or next to a firefight

[zinc dome]

Different issue thats being addressed here currently

[visual elk]

That's the biggest reason why people don't use vehicles as transports, exept helis

[raw jay]

you can make it so that when you hover the cursor over a “vehicle squad”, the menu expands and shows all the options for the “vehicle squad”

[pallid narwhal]

@vernal fog mentioned earlier, not against the idea, but you have to come up with a way where it's not annoying to back to firefight.

[radiant heath]

Perhaps the third box could be for infantry related tasks relating to vehicle gameplay within a squad

• drone spotting
• fortification building
• hot dropping from the helicopter (most important)
• escorting

[zinc dome]

I dig the "transport" theme, i dont think it would get utilized a ton much but, symmetry on the menu

And people like yourchoppterpilot would lock in that squad style

[raw jay]

You can also make an option that will always automatically select a certain type of squad when starting the game

[vernal fog]

you could make it support squad then then you can add building fortification to the third one

[radiant heath]

If your in a vehicluar squad you should be able to spawn on any occupied vehicle, weather it be a helicopter or APC or Humvee as a potential buff

[vernal fog]

air/armor/logi or building

[zinc dome]

Not looking for mechanical changes, this is literally just squad focus

[vernal fog]

obviously im just pointing out why it wouldnt be used

[prime steppe]

lol

[tacit oar]

If no one has written yet, I will. It would also be cool if there were corresponding icons in the squad menu so you could understand which squad you are joining. in game

[zinc dome]

Outside of tank and chopper I dont know if the current systems support much else. Its a great basis for being intertwined with future balance changes, but for vehicles, we got tanks, we got helicopters and.. btrs that sit in the water shooting at objective walls

Because its in my blood, is the "default" squad rectangle bigger by default or do you have that tile selected currently? Its larger than the other 3 options

[pallid narwhal]

the idea was default was bigger

but I will change it in a sec

[radiant heath]

ehhhhhh. I squad of only 4 in a tank is risky since it needs infantry to push up and use squad talk

[pallid narwhal]

personally I haven't seen infantry next to a tank

generally tank crew is alone

[radiant heath]

They will camp as always if alone

[pallid narwhal]

again, I am not a tank crew player

so take my idea with salt

[zinc dome]

When you connect to a server, I am guessing you see this menu first, you must pick a group type, then you spawn?

[pallid narwhal]

correct

[tacit oar]

or rejoining

[pallid narwhal]

The squad types - icons will be visible on scoreboard - in squad menu both

[visual elk]

Not really, not everyone camps all the time. Accept the reality man

[zinc dome]

Will this persist from map to map if you stay on the same server, or is it just a new "join a squad" step? I am already thinking about selcting a "default" squad type

[pallid narwhal]

new squad each time, yet, later we can implement persistent squads

[radiant heath]

The will and they will be passive tanks who don't contribute to capturing objecives and pushing with the team. Tanks need infantry to be aggressive and to survive

[visual elk]

1. Infantry doesn't help you enough to justify pushing.
2. They are players that push alone, and die alone. I see it all the time

[zinc dome]

Appreciate the answer as always. Should be interesting to see how its received and what it does to the player mentality.

I will say, I feel a little attacked by the "instead of attempting to get the most kills in the round" call out in the tactical squad, but i know what part of the player base i occupy.

[radiant heath]

Infantry doesn't help you enough to justify pushing.

That's the whole point of a vehicular squad, you help the tank

[dense matrix]

Would not make it practical for tanks to engage with enemy ground troops at close range regardless.

Tanks by their very nature are just not good for that

It would be easier to invent and implement a brand new kind of military vehicle that fit the role, than it would be to make tanks prefer getting up close and personal.

[weak vapor]

Provide more exp for vehicle occupants when they get kills in proximity to the vehicle

[dense matrix]

Trying to force gameplay changes with xp rewards only works for those who really care about xp

[raw jay]

@pallid narwhal What if for squad points it would be possible for a “vehicle squad” to order a tank or something like that. There are also some special features for the sniper squad

[visual elk]

I meant that it's uncapable of supporting it enough. Inf won't magically pick off every RPG in 200m radious, given the multitude of LOS in this game. I also seen and died to C4 inside friendly bloob.

You can incentivies inf playing with tanks, but it won't be even a band aid, every medic that slips through this screen still can one shot tanks

Tandem can still deal 87% of hp by missing a tank

[visual elk]

Wouldn't that be Infantry Fighting Vehicle? We have those alredy

They just suck

[tacit oar]

Does tandem do that much damage? It's in the back right?

[visual elk]

Yes in the back. But you gave 2m radious of splash that deals dmg, so you don't even need to hit directly,and you can hit the rear from the front

It also does 87% of hp to APC from front adn sides, one shot from the rear

FOR SOME REASON

[tacit oar]

Splash is a bit cringe.

[visual elk]

No other game does that

[tacit oar]

It turns out that we need a rebalance or rework of all types of RPGs. They are all not working correctly at the moment.

[dense matrix]

Better for the role than tanks but still not something you’d want to send into the middle of a contested urban area

As it stands the humvees are probably the best vehicle for it tbh

No long reloads, very effective at wiping infantry quickly, more disposable, and I think actually more durable than IFVs

Turret turns faster as well with less restrictions

[visual elk]

You don't want to send anyhting here honestly

But this is a game, something needs to wlrk there

[dense matrix]

Zero inertia mech suit with dual wielded FALs might be the only vehicle thats ever gonna be powerful in the middle of infantry

[zinc dome]

you read the player suggested support buffs too eh?

[lean seal]

The 8-seater transport helicopter can be turned into an RPG helicopter, requiring 1 pilot and 4 RPG shooters, which is a great test of teamwork.

[pallid narwhal]

#dev-wip message

[cedar orbit]

I have two ideas for this hehe, 1- Specify a little more the things that the recon do (spot enemies, eliminate objectives that prevent the allied advance, things like that), 2- Make an assault squad, type that is for flanking, attack directly , the front line soldiers basically

[pallid narwhal]

negative, more type is more fragmentation, assault squad can be considered the tactical squad

[cedar orbit]

You're right, well, it would be more specific about what recon does and that.

[cedar orbit]

Oh yes, another thing, I saw that there are two types of scoreboards, the current one that shows the players' scores and one that shows the score but of the squad, could this be the main one? Thinking that this new mechanic of choosing your squad is being added?

[upper frigate]

Reconnaissance Team, Tactical Team, Vehicle Team, Mortar Team

[cedar orbit]

Well, we already have all of those except for the mortar, which if I remember correctly, the mortars will not be included hehe

[upper frigate]

yeah，I don't know if there will be mortars。I am referring to the classification of teams in hell on earth

[cedar orbit]

A ok ok hehe

[upper frigate]

By analogy, that's it

[cedar orbit]

I have to say, this new mechanic makes me happy, it is a good start to maybe later add more mechanics that encourage teamwork.

[upper frigate]

Several uploaders on Bilibili have published different videos and expressed similar views at different times from June until now

BBR has been leaning towards esports

BBR did not allow players from the same faction to achieve the same goal through diverse means

It is very difficult to accomplish this through team functional differentiation now

Now BBR is like a big battlefield CS

Even in games of the same type, the behavior patterns of BBR vehicles and infantry can be considered disconnected

The difficulty of attack and defense varies greatly due to the existing occupancy mechanism and difficulty in obtaining information

Enhance the strength of the tank to the extent of a weakened version of a war monster

[upper frigate]

There must be a Lich King

[velvet elk]

i don’t really know if the recon squad type is needed, default, coordinated, vehicle is okay

but i think this it is a bin for lonewulf snowflakes to separate them from other players

so okay, i get it now 👌

[radiant heath]

XP is a huge insentive for some people. The repair tool was the best example of that were people were actually content to just left click the roof of a helicopter for 25 minutes.
XP insentivies should be more common to encourge good gameplay and more teamplay

4 player slots for the tank squad
Needs to be 8

[ivory ermine]

Would a party squad, or "Unconventional Tactics" squad be out of place? I definitely understand the potential to over-fragment the squad system with too many categories, but something like that may serve as a good community builder

[visual elk]

Will you make suggestion for that?

[dense briar]

Will we ever be able to drag players into vehicles? it would be fun combo with vehicle squads

I put this in mil-sim feedback long ago and hope it’s not forgotten.

[dense matrix]

And not an incentive at all for some. It would have to be a huge boost to warrant dying within a minute with a small number of kills.

[radiant heath]

When you're a party leader and join a game clicking the Helicopter Squad it can put you into someone elses squad instead of making your own squad with you as the squad leader. Need this feature back.

[timber lake]

the "Hood-Rat" squad