Rebalancing: Medic and Health

[coral needle]

Please read the TXT file to know the rebalancing proposal or look at the first messages in this chat, since Discord didn't let me add it completely due to the character limit, thank you very much

[hollow blade]

Just send second message

[coral needle]

Well this will be a type of list of publications that I will upload with ideas to rebalance the classes of the game, perhaps adding new mechanics, changing others, accessories and in addition to using some mechanics related to the class, in this case health , very good, now we start

Revive: Make the medic class the only one that can revive all the players on the team in general, the other players who are not medic class will only be able to revive their squad with a syringe which of course will be slower than a resuscitation of the medic (in a moment I will explain where the dressing system is) this same syringe would be activated by an action button and thus the bandages are left where they are.

Gadgets and weapons: Thinking that many people, of course, have commented the same thing about the medic, who is the "meta" of the game, I thought that the best thing for him would be to remove explosives like the C4 and the suicide C4 for example, leaving explosives which do not They cannot create destruction or destroy vehicles, such as anti-infantry mines or a grenade launcher (which of course has but explosive ammunition).
In addition to this, leave the submachine guns and carbines in the main weapon categories (you are a medic, not assault to carry C4, combat rifles, and incidentally unlimited regeneration with your bandages, which we will talk about later)

Regeneration and health: This is based on the Battlefield V health system, which would work as a mixed system between life regeneration and the current bandages system, which is how it would work (remember that it is just an example) suppose they shoot me, they leave me to 20% life, regeneration would be activated up to 50% life, and to obtain a complete regeneration it would be using a bandage, with this new system it would be limited to two bandages for the classes except for the medic who would now use them to reanimate allies , and the assault that would be given 3 or 4 bandages (of course, that's because it's an assault haha) and to replace bandages you could call a box of supplies, or something faster that a medic can replace (perhaps using the same mechanics of healing of the medical box, while it heals you, replace the bandages in turn)

And those are the ideas that I have had to "rebalance" this class, to make it more supportive than an "assault 2.0" (or assault 3.0 counting the engineer haha) as I told you, they are just ideas and of course, I will also look to upgrade later another same publication with another class to find a good balance between classes and not all of them are the same on the battlefield, a pleasure and have a good day

[silver raven]

Good ideas however at this point ur removing everything that battlebit has to offer and just making it an battlefield instead.

[coral needle]

Well, it is really to make the medic do his job as a medic of course, since, in any type of game that encourages teamwork with roles/classes, limits must be set in each class, as is the case in this case of course, And if they didn't want it to be that way, why was the class system added then? If at the end of the day everyone is going to have almost the same gadgets and almost the same limitations, the idea is that with the limitations of each class, the player will naturally seek help from others (let's see how it works in the rest of the games that They have a class system)

[tulip fox]

I mean the class system isn't necessarily created to be limited more to have diff type of playstyles and usecases for the classes. In other games like BF which you mentioned in the post there wasn't any limits either.

[silver raven]

-2042 didnt had limits
-medic is able to do his job, the problem lays on the side of community not wanting to cooperate with other players

[coral needle]

Well, of course, but in the case of Battlebit we are talking about a very different case, I would believe you if we had different styles of useful games, but currently there are only two, either run like a headless chicken all over the map, or use a sniper, and From there there is no more, that's why there are many people commenting that there is no replayability

[silver raven]

my point is that there should be another options of class balancing instead of looking at competition and stealing what they have

devs probably heard enough of people calling the game shit battlefield copy

[coral needle]

-With the BF 2042, what do you mean that there are no limitations?

-If you give him almost the same tools as the rest of the classes, except that he has unlimited health, do you think he will do his job?

[tulip fox]

I still think changing the revives like this would be negative. I get the feeling i got revived by a wide variety of classes and to just remove that to give a medic more uses is gonna lead to less revives across the board. However adding a utility like a defibrillator/syringe or something in that direction to instant res someone but with a cooldown could be a good addition to the game which would results in more revives and give medic more impact on team play.

[coral needle]

Look at the competition to steal what they have? brother, literally the entire game uses mechanics from other games, the SQUAD bandage system, the charger system is a mix of SQUAD and Insurgency Sandstorm, even Oki himself has said that he wants to make a mix between Battlefield and Squad, I don't know. Where is the originality in this game apart from the Low Poly and the 254 players

[coral needle]

Furthermore, the class system has always been balanced like this, from the most arcadey ones like Overwatch and TF2 to the most realistic ones like Squad or Hell Let Loose. Have you ever played a game with a role or class system?

[tulip fox]

I mean that's the only 2 ways that the game could be played at the moment if ur not including conquest. I don't see how you can make the game feel anymore different by simply adding limits to classes because it will still lead to the same outcome you know.

I think this just comes back to how fast the game plays and how the maps are designed that this play style is promoted to be honest

[tulip fox]

Yea but the utility provided in TF2/overwatch is way more impactful than the classes in this game.

They are balanced by the fact they are made to counter each othewr

Hell let loose in my opinion has the same issues with classes that this game has but is less talked about simply because of how much slower the game is

[coral needle]

Good idea but it would be too "arcade" for Oki, I also started to think about certain mechanics that Oki is not against because it is too "arcade" for him and encourages teamwork

[tulip fox]

But i cannot give my opinion too much about that because i didn't play hell let loose that much.

[coral needle]

Of course it is also due to the speed of movement but also to the factor of the classes that some are equal to the others and well you have to start somewhere, right?

[coral needle]

And of course the classes counter each other more because there are fewer players in the game than this type of games, but let's face the same thing, each one has its advantages and disadvantages.

[silver raven]

-2042 you could use anything that you want on any hero
-as I said it isn't class fault it's communities fault that they use a class how they want
-I never said that the game is the most original but grabbing mechanics constantly from other games puts the game in bad light even more than it is in the current state
-Class balancing is painful and it never gives good results but the game has way more problems than medic being able to constantly heal

bandages are already good enough with healing imo you should worry about medic after new ttk goes live

[tulip fox]

oh yea for sure the balancing in that type of games are completely different

[coral needle]

-BF2042 literally had to add back the class system because people complained about it, no one liked the specialist system (be informed before giving your opinion)

-I repeat this again, because you are giving almost the same tools to everyone, why help the team if everyone has the same tools? You have to put things for and against the class so that the player naturally seeks help from others that does not have his class.

-It would be understandable if more "arcade" mechanics were taken but in this case the aim is to use mechanics that encourage more teamwork under Oki's vision

-Here we return to Battlefield's answer. If it doesn't give good results then why is this system still being added? Even the game you are playing now "The Finals" has a role system XD

[silver raven]

-the only people that hated the new system was the loudest part of community
-ur worrying about medic currently when most of the servers only use support because its just a better class than medic
-the game is a mess with what it wants to be so it will take years to realize if it wants to be milsim or arcade shooter
-class system will be always "meta" as a game mechanic because of success of different games and people not wanting to be original anymore

thats where i end this convo

[coral needle]

-You know that Battlefield has always had the class system, right? and that several youtubers and veteran people complained about the lack of this, right? only recent players who know nothing about the saga of course did not complain

-Did you at least read the balancing message? Because with what you just told me about support, it seems that you lack reading comprehension or are anxious about the words because, as I specified, "I will also look to upgrade later another same publication with another class to find a good balance between classes and not all of them are the same on the battlefield" (and I'm from the third world and I take the time to read all this haha)

-I mean, you are accepting that this game is made up of a salad of mechanics, but do you prefer it to continue like this instead of accepting new mechanics since they specifically say on Steam that it is Early Access and that it can change the final product? incredible, and that you have supported since the time of the Patreon

-With this last thing that there will always be a "target" class, he answered me and yes, he has never played a game with a role system in his fucking existence...

And the third world is one and apparently they are not able to read a text completely XD

[haughty shoal]

haven't addressed one issue: Why should a Medic actively heal/apply bandages to other players?

By limiting the bandages for other classes, it encourages Medics to provide teamwork for other players. However, why should Medics do this proactively?

[coral needle]

Thank you for telling me about this brother, well that could be fixed with a greater sum of points for the medic, since it would increase the need for them by the medics and therefore, their reward would be greater, at least it is a solution that I find. What do you think?

[haughty shoal]

Between the updates when every class could use bandages to restore HP, did medics focus on healing back then? Clearly not. I haven't come up with a solution that would make healing other players more appealing than driving vehicles for transportation.

This seems like forcing some players to engage in mundane activities in milsim games, such as transporting ammunition to the frontline or focusing on using the radio to communicate with other squads.

I like the healing in bfv; the speed of healing and reviving is so fast that it doesn't feel burdensome, much like casually tossing trash out of a car window (don't do that).

[coral needle]

Of course it has its flaws, but the idea is at least to give ideas to encourage teamwork seeing that the game is supposedly going in that direction, and of course at least we give ideas to improve this teamwork and not simply settle for the current system of the game that... is disgusting

Also, of course, I know that at least the majority of arcade players will ALWAYS be against these decisions, but there will come a time when they will be made, and at the very least, ideas must be given to provide a system that, liked by a large part and at the same time it is what Oki is looking for

Not like the guy I was arguing with because he wants to keep the game the same and apparently has never played or even understood a game with a class system.

[coral needle]

That's why I also thank you for seeking to talk about this issue and not be like other members who only scream for the slightest change that means even a little more teamwork.

[haughty shoal]

The best teamwork is not to teamwork.
Battlebit currently lacks the player base and social features like squads that allow some players to enjoy providing services for others.
That's why I encourage other players to join a clan and play together with the clan member. They can engage in meaningful teamwork, but evidently, no one wants to play on a server with many members of the same clan.

[coral needle]

I understand your point of view, and of course apart from this it is more than anything a change of mind on the part of the community in turn, all accustomed to the same gameplay, which is why we have to make changes little by little, both in the mentality of the community as well as in the gameplay to encourage teamwork

Of course, they are changes that most people will not like, but in the long term they will end up being made.

[haughty shoal]

So, I just hope to provide limited teamwork. If you want to specialize in medic or support, you can carry an ammo box or medical kit to heal others and gain experience. If you don't want to, other players can approach you for less healing and support, without gaining experience.

This is what I think is a good compromise, this leaves room for players who wish to specialize and also provides options for those who are not very interested in teamwork.

[coral needle]

Exactly, I also hope the same, that is, mostly that more game styles are encouraged, than just the current two, giving greater replayability to the title, and of course each role has, so to speak, its own clearly played styles.

If we were talking about a polished role system, the one that would have to give the play style more focusing on eliminations would be the assault, but of course, currently almost all classes do what they should do (or rather what would give them better ) assault class

[haughty shoal]

#1183550335449583676 message
limiting the number of each class, which helps make classes other than Assault more special and effective, but in limited numbers

It would be great to have a game test version that limits the number of each class but makes different classes more powerful

[coral needle]

Of course, but the fact is that if they don't want this idea, they won't like the idea of ​​limitations even more.

[haughty shoal]

Just some testing. If it's more fun and genuinely solves some of the current issues, why not give it a try?

[hushed sun]

Is there not a possibility to do this with Community Servers?

Limiting classes, I mean.

[haughty shoal]

Community Servers can limit the number of each class but cannot make them more powerful.

[coral needle]

As I told you, any idea that is to improve the team game, I support it (in fact, I support the one you pinned to me haha) but as I mentioned, it is more than anything that the arcade players are the problem, for the most part. They don't want changes, they want more of the same (just look at the person who argued, for example, one of the many who want Battlebit to be just another game from the pile)

[hushed sun]

While I'm against limiting classes - the same way I was vehemently against what Overwatch did with their game (ruin it) by adding Role Queue and limiting team compositions - I'm not against giving classes more identity, especially when it comes to medic, as I adore healing and being a support to my team in any game I play.

I just don't think that adding limitations to classes would do anything to positively affect their impact.

Rather, I'd like to see classes get an "Identity Review" pass.

Go over each class, and set it's identity up with a strong foundation.

Assault isn't just "can shoot guns, but also runs fast!", it's "The ultimate expert in assaulting and overrunning enemy positions."

Medic wouldn't just be "can shoot guns, but also has a little magic healing box!", it would be "a litteral life-saver on the field, you never leave base without them!"

How to achieve that? A million ways, I just don't think forcing it, by limiting squads to "1 sniper, 1 medic, 2 supports, 2 engis, 2 assault" does this, at all, and it creates a lot of issues down the line.

[haughty shoal]

I think the current Assault already meets the needs of most arcade-style players, such as being able to carry an ammo box, use bandages for self-healing, and not requiring teamwork with other players to obtain certain things.

[hushed sun]

How to achieve it we could discuss in depth, but I don't want to write too many walls of text, this is already my third one tonight. 😅 I don't want to get bonked for writing too much.. but just a couple of quick examples.. because I can't help myself. 😆

What if all classes revive you at 20-25 health, but the medic revives you at full health (minus all the armor you lost getting shot ofc)?

What if all classes can self-heal with bandages, but it heals you a little, so you have to use up 4 bandages to full-heal, while a medic could do it in a quarter of the time?

What if your medic was able to drag you MUCH FASTER than other classes, so they CAN do that heroic "save someone dead in the middle of the street by running out at them to be a hero"?

What if your medic could give you a shot of Morphine (sacrificing their 2nd gadget which is usually C4 or Smoke) so that you can take one more hit, or Adrenaline so that you can run a bit faster for a moment?

I'm thinking "Walking Medical Cabinet" kind of vibe. Someone you go to if you need a pick-me-up, or a boost to courageously push the front.

A walking, shooting life-saver.

[haughty shoal]

Limiting the number of classes can be implemented in a non-extreme manner, where there is a certain number of each class but not a strict requirement for a specific composition, such as a four-person squad not necessarily having one Assault, one Medic, one Support, and one Engineer. It could also be, for example, one Medic, one Support, and two Engineers strategically ambushing enemy vehicles.

The "Identity Review" pass, in my opinion, should only inform players about what they can do without enforcing specific actions.
like:#1185324484392145006 message

After setting class limits, the goal is to make each class more unique. Medics could provide faster healing and HP recovery, while Engineers could have more powerful RPGs for vehicle destruction without the concern of RPGs becoming too prevalent and diminishing the fun of vehicles.

the core is to reduce classes quantity and enhance classes strengths, make more approaches viable without worrying about an excessive number.

However, the effectiveness of these changes is not guaranteed, so I suggest having a testing version to evaluate the impact of each suggestion. This could also serve as a unique experience for the weekly weekend events in BattleBit.

[hushed sun]

+1 for a test server (I would caveat that it needs to be limited to 1 x 127v127, 1 x 64v64 and 1 x 32v32, so people aren't all on that server, emptying the game of players.)

+1 to making classes unique.

-1 to limits, I would rather we adjust things upwards to "make sure the class increase in power/identity doesn't overly impact other classes".

There's already 250 players in a match, if you empower classes, there will be moments where it's just simply "un-balanceable". Even if the server has a total limit of 30 engineers.. that's still 30 x BIG explosions and RPG damage.

Any limitation logic that would apply to smaller games go out of the window when you reach these amounts of player.

Planetside 2 is the only other currently-playable game (RIP MAG) where the playerbase in a fight can be similar.. and they have ZERO limitations, yet the classes are all roughly equal in power, with vastly different playstyles and power differences.

Your goal can be achieved without a class limit. It takes more thought and effort, but it's possible, and it avoids the pitfalls of limiting players to a (potentially malleable/changeable) specific set of classes. 👍