make snipers use mil dots

[quaint raft]

edit ( remove bullet trails first the compensation is low so this is a better and less harsh nerf for snipers ) add a diagram for each of the scopes mil-dots, this would make sniper battles require more skill, or make zeroing more of a chore somehow, idk WAR THUNDER gets sniping right (yes i know war thunder is not a good basis but at around 3.0 to 6.7 battle rating the sniping is pretty good even though the game is balnced very poorly the sniping is one mechanic it gets right) . Maybe add a timer for the range finder like 5 seconds or something, i dont main sniper but i think this might be a good change encouraging better aim and sniper battles being fun rather than point and click.

the dots are mildots btw

they are aligned with different ranges

[cosmic cedar]

OKI PLS

[near gorge]

It would need to model each scope for each sniper rifle. Sounds like something they would have on a backburner and would come waaay later

[quaint raft]

snipers are forced to go far away due to the new updates, making snipers use mil dots will bring them closer and more killable and mil dots will make sniper battles more about skill and estimating ranges if the rangefinder has a timer of sorts.

im sure you can use a calculation of sorts to adjust the mildots to different sniper rifles, as well.

[scenic dust]

yeah keep nerfing recons further into the mud please

[quaint raft]

if they add this they can remove bullet trails tbh#

its not a nerf its just using a feature in game thats already added but barely used

[scenic dust]

there is no need to further turn new players away from recon, adding nonsense timers to ADJUSTING your zero?? are you fuckin serious?????

[ripe umbra]

And some modules on the barrel change the speed of the bullet. This also needs to be kept in mind

[scenic dust]

what if you're an active sniper following battles? do you just have to wait every time you want to see a range when in heated fights?

what if you see a glint wayyy far away but you just got a range somewhere else, do you have to wait to see the far away new threat?

there's no reason for this junk, and if you think bullet pathing will be removed i would consider not having any hope of that

[quaint raft]

bro its just aiming up a bit chill every other game does it, even arma, where the rangefinder is bulky and takes up some inventory, you just have to aim up and consider for gravity drop, like most marksmen do when they have to engage multiple targets instead of one very important one.

even sniper elite does fffs

[scenic dust]

i don't think you understand what you're suggesting

or you didn't word what you were thinking properly

[near gorge]

Yeah, after all the changes this would add too much complexity to the class. Not only it would require Larry remodel every scope for each gun but then it would have to have a variant for every attachment that changes the velocity. Completely unnecessary change that only makes game harder

[toxic cargo]

So? Why does this game need it?

[scenic dust]

i don't think trying to answer that is going to be helpful

[quaint raft]

because long range snipers just point and click rn its annoying and most have been put further back by the new nerf

[scenic dust]

here's a tip that will basically solve your issue. don't. stop. moving.

only heal/reload in hiding spots, under rocks/in bushes/trees/in shadows/behind buildable cover

[ripe umbra]

Dude, they're shooting at each other. Why do you care? They pose no threat. Let the kids have fun in sniper duels

[scenic dust]

stop standing still in the open and you won't keep getting picked off as easily

[quaint raft]

most maps have big open areas and urban combat can still get you killed sometimes

[toxic cargo]

This is on you. The amount of times I have been killed by a sniper has dropped through the floor since they were pushed out to those distances.

[scenic dust]

you just need to learn how to duck away into cover

seriously, not trying to pick on you

but your particular issue is indeed, a skill issue.

and that is okay

[quaint raft]

forest flanking is basically useless as well, forests are good flanks but most of the time you get picked off by snipers, i also find long range sniper gameplay boring, thats why i dont main recon, i want something to add some challenge

[toxic cargo]

Also even with the m200 + silencer I'm pretty sure travel time is still significant when long distance shooting, worse with other rifles.

[scenic dust]

long range sniping is boring, because it's hard to get anything done

if you want to use the recon class, but want to have more fun, try being a more active player while using recon

use short or medium scopes, stay close (but behind) larger battles

even with all the fuckin nerfs oki has shit onto us recently

[quaint raft]

i did but the bullet trails makes it useless to aggressive snipe or mid range snipe, i think mil dots will encourage mid range sniping more by making people go closer to aim easier, then bullet trails would have a better reason to be removed, i hate bullet trails its made sniping worse

so instead of having it zeroed in like this

have them compensate a bit

[scenic dust]

^

[hollow onyx]

about the mind numbing takes on snipers i mentioned about 2 hours ago...

[scenic dust]

and stop using long range scopes what are you doing

use medium scopes

m125 is the best one

people also like the tri

[hollow onyx]

for you it might be, other people have other preferences, you do realize this, right?

[scenic dust]

#1184093443962720357 message

[hollow onyx]

that changes nothing about what I said, I use 8x regularly

[scenic dust]

oh you're referring to that

yeah sure, it's objectively worse, but yea some people probably like long scopes

[quaint raft]

it doesnt matter in the example it still gets my point across

[scenic dust]

no dude it doesn't

[fickle pecan]

do people even think about what this would actually mean?
every scope would have to be adjusted in a way where the bullet trajectory matches up properly
not to mention the differences between the sniper rifles
this idea is a good one in theory, just a really dumb one in practice

[scenic dust]

you're basically saying make velocity not work sometimes

or you're just saying adjust all long scopes to have proper mil dots for every weapon depending on velocity

the latter would indeed be helpful to people, i don't know how difficult that would be

[quaint raft]

yes as i said im sure you can use a calculation

[scenic dust]

okay that's what you're suggesting

you're saying:

make long range scopes have proper mildot ranges for every weapon according to it's velocity

[quaint raft]

sniper rifles are quite high velocity as well, like there is no compensation at 100 to 200 m

[scenic dust]

correct

[quaint raft]

yes

[scenic dust]

well, for the m200

[fickle pecan]

just fix the velocity and snipers are more difficult to use overall
adjust them to clear roles as well and then they are balanced, easy as

[scenic dust]

velocity is fine

[hollow onyx]

yeah, just do velocity * 0.6 for the snipers

[quaint raft]

the velocity is realistic but not fine

[fickle pecan]

no need to put dev time into meticulously figuring out how the mildots have to be for every sniper with differing velocities due to barrel attachments

[hollow onyx]

it is not, not even close

[fickle pecan]

it isn't lmao

[scenic dust]

are yall saying bolt rifles need to be slower?

[hollow onyx]

.50 BMG out of a Barrett M82 goes roughly 850

[hollow onyx]

yes, drasticly

[scenic dust]

oh fuck off

lol

[hollow onyx]

drastically? not native

[scenic dust]

go away

[quaint raft]

not being civil doesnt add anything to your argument lol

[fickle pecan]

m200 irl goes at about 920m/s

[scenic dust]

there's no need to further recon's banishment

[hollow onyx]

The current sniper bullets are faster than Aim 120 C missiles being shot at M0.9 at 30k ft, that should make you think...

[scenic dust]

oki is doing that well enough

[quaint raft]

damn

[quaint raft]

remove sniper trails make mil dots more important

[fickle pecan]

and it's no secret that all sniper rifles, except for maybe the ssg, have too fast of a velocity to them
they should be buffed and differentiated in other ways but the velocity needs to go

[hollow onyx]

and thats even with lofting...

[fickle pecan]

the trail should stay but only fade in after 300m or so, it's quite handy for long range sniping (actual sniping lmao)

[hollow onyx]

refreshing to see someone utilizing 10 % of their brain

[fickle pecan]

should be common sense to get to that

[hollow onyx]

im contemplating booting up DCS just to see how much slower amraams actually are

assuming 1250 km/h = mach 1, at 1400 m/s the bullets go mach 4, mach fucking 4

[toxic cargo]

The SSG is one of the worst guns in the game because of it's velocity, if you make every bolt as bad as that you will actually kill the category more effectively than anything else that's been done so far.

And what of guns like the Mk20 with its 1100 velocity? If we're being realistic should we just reduce it across the board? Because then movement is going to get even more powerful.

[hollow onyx]

again, sniper velocity should be velocity * 0.6

[sly harbor]

I feel like this would need to be exclusively implemented on the m200. Then give long range scope users binos with longer range zoom as an additional default gadget, for medium range users a pickaxe.

If you removed zeroing or nerfed velocity from say the l96, the dmrs would become insanely oppressive in the meta.

[ruby mango]

Mk20 AP muzzle velociity is infact 1100. m200 would match that, though AP ammo might also have a higher muzzle velocity for it. so they don't always seem to pull the numbers out their butts.

[grand wharf]

FFS more nerfs??

[quaint raft]

i want them to remove the bullet trails first, i think this is a more fair nerf than that

[ruby mango]

its a stupid nerf is what it is.

mil dots are always supposed to be secondary,

[quaint raft]

in actual sniper combat they target one person, for marksmen and snipers to engage multiple targets, they use mildots

[ruby mango]

I.e secondary.

[fickle pecan]

bro all the scopes will need to be adjusted
and that for all sniper rifles
it would be much easier if

• velocity got fixed
• trail would only slowly fade in past 300m or so
• they all got their own unique role
  and looking at what's happening currently (well it's holidays duh but still)
  snipers and other balancing don't seem to be up for debate

[ruby mango]

other than the m200, all the snipers have proper muzzle velocity funnily enough

[quaint raft]

there is barely any compensation because of that so mil dots will be very easy to use

[ruby mango]

that defeats the point of mildots.

[quaint raft]

i just want sniper to not point and click at long range and aim up a bit

[ruby mango]

if you actually played sniper, you would know that mildots are in fact used.

becuase you range a target and then use mildots to compensate.

[quaint raft]

zeroing is always used

literally everybody uses zeroing

[ruby mango]

yeah, and guess what

it goes by hundreds

so you have to compensate with your scope

[quaint raft]

no not really, the gravity drop on snipers is barely noticable in increments of 100m, only ssg69 is affected by it but only barely, so there is no compensation

let me go into the shooting range rq

[ruby mango]

the is bud.

but of course you are talking about within 300 meters most likely

not realising most guns don't need to range to that to be near spot on.

[quaint raft]

let me just show you some screenshots from the shooting range to show you the compensation

ill be using the lowest velocity sniper

[ruby mango]

at what velocity.

[quaint raft]

900m/s

amount of compensation at 400m, you said you need some compensation at 100m, this is 4x the distance and the compensation is quite small, this is why i want mildots to be used more, the compensation is small so its not as big of a nerf as bullet trails, and the zeroage is at 0m, it doesnt affect mid range sniping that much unlike bullet trails.

if i move to 800m

[ruby mango]

I said at 300 there is little to no compensation

and that is true for most primaries

[quaint raft]

still not much compensation, i just want zeroing to be in increments of 400 since the compensation is so low, then mildots will be useful

[ruby mango]

yeah that would honestly just be stupid

and of course

would not work because varying degrees of velocity.

[quaint raft]

this is the compensation at 1km, and i can still headshot the target there

but it is much harder

[fickle pecan]

with a 4x 💀

use a 15-40x and then see how "little" you have to compensate there

[quaint raft]

ok

[ruby mango]

not gonna see the fucking target lol

[quaint raft]

this is why i want mil dots though, snipers can just point and click ant 800m to a kilometre because of the rangefinders and as i said i want zeroage in increments of 400 so this is an extreme example with no zeroage

yes its the 40x

max zeroage in game is 500 though

[ruby mango]

that's for the ssg no? pretty sure some guns get zeros out to a thou

but as it it is. trying to do this would mean you would not hit shit

people move too quickly and too often to only use mildots at range

[quaint raft]

with max zeroage on the ssg69

[quaint raft]

most 800 metre snipers target people in windows or people in the open not moving much, this will stop them from zeroing in and just headshotting you by just point and clicking

let me demonstrate with the intervention

[ruby mango]

stop them from shooting people just point and clicking?

mother fucker that would change nothing

if your sitting in an open window for more than a few seconds you deserve to get shot.

hell most of the time you will, even by non-snipers.

and again

[quaint raft]

have you heard of suppressing the enemy

[ruby mango]

have you heard that is worthless in this game?

as I was saying. people already use the mildots and scopes ranging features. and have learned it with their preferred rifle.

all this would do is just make sniping unfun to do, which I guess is your actual plan.

[quaint raft]

is it fun to kill people form 1km? i dont think so

[ruby mango]

the 20 people that die over the course of 45 min likely don't care.

this would change nothing, be alot to implement, and simply be a worse nerf than the trails could ever be for no reason other than "I don't like dying to snipers that snipe"

[quaint raft]

the compensation is small and barely noticable, it isnt that big of a nerf

[ruby mango]

shows over half the scope being worthless

sure buddy

[fickle pecan]

yes
because it's different to
"imma zoomy zoomy mouse spasm through the enemies"
or
"i'm do thiccc to effectively move but i got a lot of bullets...
||oh whoops a lot of bullets don't really matter in this game if your mobility is non existent and your guns are worse ars with bigger mags, shit happens||"

it's relaxing for once

[quaint raft]

ok i understand but i think snipers should be a bit closer like 400m - 200m away should be encouraged instead of 1km as snipers 400m to 200m away can only get killed by people with very good aim or by people that flank and mines can sort out the flankers, and if they shoot them you should be able to hear that.

most ars can even hit 200m or 400 for that matter

[ruby mango]

people are going to sit as far as possible because they want those long range kills. they never kill alot of people. the problems people have with those people are that they are worthless to the team because they hardly get kills, and they are not on the points.

they are never a problem to anyone but those challenging them, or stopping in the open.

most snipers are at most going to be 400 hundred out, becasue that is far more reliable.

even then you'll find them 150-300 usually.

[fickle pecan]

the only times i died to someone over 600m was either because i was sniping and fucked something up or because of my own incompetence

it is the epitomy of skill issue if you get got by a long range sniper on your way to an objective...

[woven trench]

What’s funny is I have no issue just sniping these long range snipers with a 4x since they barely move. I don’t even zero

[hollow laurel]

I also never zero or use a rangefinder. It takes like 15min of practice with any sniper/DMR to learn hold-overs and an afternoon, at best, to do it intuitively