Spotting not showing a player's position when behind cover.

[loud mica]

Because we dont need a wallhack on this game, particularly when it can last more than 10 seconds.

[silent yew]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-thumbs-up-approve-well-done-okay-gif-14437501

[solemn mica]

https://tenor.com/view/agreed-nod-snoop-dog-absolutely-gif-13674179

[faint pendant]

To build on this, I was chatting with others in similar threads, see: https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1183602588239798372, https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1183480619854995518

I've seen (and personally like) the idea of increasing the rate pings go away when you're out of LoS of enemies
(e.g when out of line of sight of all opponents, pings will take 1/4 the time to go away)

[loud mica]

I agree with this, or something like "when out of line of sight of all opponents, pings cant last more than 2 seconds"
Also i like the idea of knowing when you're spotted

[faint pendant]

Im leaninf towards "increase decay speed" just so pings do last behind cover but not as long - gives value to long ping durations from recon and drones

[loud mica]

I would be okay with that, particularly if i know when i'm spotted

[rapid horizon]

I believe from what Oki said, the original intention was to have pings decaty rapidly once LoS was broken, no idea if this was actually implemented or is just broken currently but I agree, the current wall-hacks aren't very good for the game.

[grim ember]

not being able to see throug wall seems fair but what about smokes? i kill like 5 people last game that were pinged in a smoke

[rocky sparrow]

Instead of letting the ping disappear the ping should stay at the position where the pinged player was the last time visible

[craggy sorrel]

Remove spotting behind walls, tell me when im spotted, whatever changes need to be made so moving, cover, smokes, line of sight, map design and players moving on the map can be relevant and impactful again.

[signal needle]

Should the ping still be visible on the map even if LoS is broken and the "3d ping" has disappeared?

It does serve quite a purpose when trying to know if I can spawn on a friendly or an objective, or if a recon has spotted a flank

[rapid horizon]

Pretty sure there's already a request to have smokes block pings and also remove any spotting markers

[fresh thicket]

This. Means the value of "I have seen someone over here" remains, without pinpointing their exact location if they're no longer in direct LOS.

Essentially would then take on the significance of the old style red quick ping

[low vigil]

i agree with you, I had seen many people shooting though smoke like cheaters. The red signal is too striking, but it shouldn't be visible behind smoke.

[loud mica]

Not a bad idea either but the question is: wouldn't it be confusing to have pings indicating exact positions mixed with pings indicating a last seen location?

[faint pendant]

It feels as if they dont exist but I really can't tell

[faint pendant]

I wouldnt mind this. Ping sticks, but it becomes "faded" when no friendly has LoS on them. Relocates to known position when the enemy is seen again

Until ping timer ends*

[rapid horizon]

judging by the poll he just put up in Updates, it doesn't

[faint pendant]

ooh omw

[craggy sorrel]

That will become such a visual clusterfuck given the player count and character move speed

[bitter forge]

after the last updates the spotting is insane, I was in a match in oildunes where I could see ~30 enemies in the same place behind the walls, and I also feel like people are finding me much more easily even when I try to stay as hidden as possible and its pretty annoying

[faint pendant]

Why, oh why, do so many people want to see them thru walllllsssss

😭

I took the poll as "do we want to see pings through walls? yes or no?"

wait shite wrong img

[maiden path]

Grenades more powerful than ever atm. Just lob 'em at the dots and wa la. It's a bit too much IMO.

[faint pendant]

Oki you sneaky motherfucker. I mention it and the post changes

or maybe i'm just imagining things and gaslighting myself

[red folio]

Just to clarify, is your suggestion that the marks should not show at all for people that I don't have direct line of vision to when they get spotted? Or that it should automatically clear itself when the spotted person breaks line of sight with the person who originally spotted them?

The latter would mean that I can still see someone is behind cover if I have an ally spotting them from a different angle.

[crystal oyster]

I'd assume the second, otherwise 3d ping becomes useless.

[red folio]

Agreed. But it would be important for OP to clarify, as Oki has a bit of English skill issue so it's important that the suggestion is as unambiguous as possible.

[wide sluice]

I feel like if this is added the pinging would become almost useless maybe shorten the time?

[red folio]

It's absolutely not useless to be aware of areas with enemy presence. You still have footsteps and gunshots to pinpoint their location.

[wide sluice]

Fair

[crystal oyster]

I think it should decay quickly while out of LoS, its broken atm. The bigger issue is drones not being spottable like a vehicle, its super hard to find them in the sky and you can just respawn immediately when it gets shot down. Being forced to maintain LoS and being spottable by the enemy will make drones much easier to counter play while also not being nerfed out of existence.

[faint pendant]

thr 2nd option yes

as long as someone has Los the ping exists. If no friendly has LoS, the enemy can escape the ping

The specifics on how "losing" the ping works is debatable, but thats the gist

The big ones i've seen are:

• 2 seconds out of LoS of all opponents causes the player to lose the ping.
• increased decay rate (e.g. you lose pings x% faster while out of LoS)
• showing last-known location while out of LoS of all opponents, updating when reentering LoS (so the player doesn't lose the ping, but it stops updating until they get seen again, until the ping ends.)

Hope that helps those who haven't popped in til now

[night saddle]

My problem is that... Drones doesn't have a "Battery life" it just a "Connection bar". But tbh the Drone Connection Range is super long like 460 studs Horizontal range only, but going to 120 °/130 ° Angle in the Sky is like 350-370 studs on flat land to the Corner which is far. And it has a Zoom function which Better Spotting Easier. Which is pretty broken getting Spotted Super Far Away using your Tiny Circle Drone Crosshair and able to spot them perfectly at 500-900 studs or more in a naked eye.

Tested this in Public Lobby, since Practice Range can't spawn a Drone or the mode is broken.
This just talk about Drone Spotting overrall. It just crazy amount of Studs and Spotting tiny pixel soldier on screen.
But not showing Spotted player behind a wall/foliage would be great to not techinally get shoot through Tree leaves/grass/bushes out of nowhere by every Arsenal.

[compact fjord]

Need to nerf it

Only the target detector should display the moving red dot. And for much less time, and certainly not through smokes and walls.

[red wave]

Oki, Only Recons should be able to see pings through walls. I already see Recons crying if you nerf Spotting. And tbh, they should keep it.

[tawdry egret]

they shouldn't. no class should be able to see through walls

[nimble wedge]

Honestly, I think spotting in general needs to be line of sight based. Hidden by smoke / walls / buildings and trees. Not sure about bushes or grass cuz genuinely they do help quite a bit but like, if someone's around a corner, I shouldn't know they're there

Would make smokes much better than they currently are, cuz as funny as it is that I can ping people in smoke accidentally and just have free wall hacks, it's cheap as fuck

[nimble wedge]

I'd be okay with this too

[faint pendant]

I would agree except there's 100% gonna be recon people just bullying players in smaller lobbies if that happens

and its gonna end in people eating oneshots and headshots while they round corners which sounds... not the greatest

[violet estuary]

Not showing pings through walls/trees etc kinda makes it useless.

That means a teammate that would see the ping has to be in the same room or near them. At the point what's the purpose of the ping?

[snow kestrel]

https://youtu.be/itTNqBUL9Ao?si=hUgXIK88pRZCfTcs This video is the literal resume of: 2 people use their braincells and learn that the game is broken

[tawdry egret]

make a 2d ping for them but not 3d

[snow kestrel]

make it fade after they go out of LoS from the Pinger

[violet estuary]

The pings should just go away faster if no friendly can see the person.

Get pinged? Hide for a couple seconds to drop it

[snow kestrel]

127vs127, a friendly will mostly be seeing them even if you or your squad don't

same with other numbers

[faint pendant]

It shows everyone an enemy ad long as *someone * is in line of sight

[snow kestrel]

pings will mostly stay even if you hide from the one who spotted you by that logic

[faint pendant]

informs your teammates of enemies precisely with little fuss

[violet estuary]

They should make pinging when down only visible to your squad

I think that would fix the issue

[crystal oyster]

checking 127 players for LoS constantly sound super expensive, pretty sure it would only be the spotter being evaluated

[violet estuary]

Doesn't pinging mostly just punish campers though

[snow kestrel]

Does anybody use it on campers?

most Snipers are at 1000m away from your current location

and people do not stay in the same place for more than 2 seconds

mostly to heal or resupply themselves

[faint pendant]

happens already for "in combat" calculations

afaik anyways

i'm sure with a range limit albeit

but that's happening all the time vs just pinged enemies

[crystal oyster]

makes sense, thought it wasn't because the devs didn't want to implement team markers being culled with LoS

[violet estuary]

I have lol

[faint pendant]

I think they are like thst now though aren't they?

LoS based I mean

[crystal oyster]

it punishes flankers and dudes pushing objectives

[crystal oyster]

yea they are, i don't know how anything is handled, but you're right, they must be checking if they are culling markers

[faint pendant]

Well think of it like this - each bullet is a ray, that needs to check if it collides with walls and/or enemies

and the game can handle all of the bullet spam as is rn

[violet estuary]

Shouldn't flanking and pushing objectives be hard though??
I think if downed pings only show to squad, you would still be rewarded for being good at flanking.

Right now it can be quite chaotic finding spawn campers and pings go a long way to help this issue.

[crystal oyster]

hey man im just repeating what i heard from their aprehension about implementing culling due to performance loss, maybe they just liars lol, also a ray is only cast when a bullet is fired, LoS would be constant

[faint pendant]

Mmm yeah thats fair. I'm no programmer either, but based on my understanding of it... Idk how much of an impact itll make on players

[rapid dawn]

I think that spotting not working through walls would effectively render it useless, tbh a better solution would be to make pings only ever update on an actual ping and give drones auto-spot like target detectors have

[faint pendant]

Now their servers might struggle. Thats what id worry bout

[rapid dawn]

So that way you can ping people, but unless you are actually looking directly at the guy and following him it's only a single positional ping

[snow kestrel]

They could make pings based in center of sight, like the "Lines" on spectator mode, those could work with LoS (i think? i skipped tech class so i could not become a programmer)

[weak ether]

Yes please this need

[violet estuary]

IMO, the best change would be this:

Pings by default only show to squad.
If you have the pinging attachment, binoculars or drone it shows to team.
Make the attachment that pings enemies only available to Support/Recon

Give a reason to use an attachment, or to run drone etc. This would help further the separation between the classes.

Don't let assault/medic ping to the entire team at all.

[rapid dawn]

Doing that would also get rid of the accidental free pings you get when trying to detect groups of enemies and probably loosen up the amount of spam clicking involved

[weak ether]

No more spot, make no hax

[crystal oyster]

have you tried playing recon with drone? you can reveal an entire enemy team and your team will clean them up no problem, it very heavily punishes close range players

[violet estuary]

Sounds like a good reason to play recon over medic, and use the drone for something other than C4 or AP mine cheese...

[rapid dawn]

It is a pretty good reason, it's just too powerful right now

[weak ether]

Drone too strong. Me see whole team and BRRR BRRR

[crystal oyster]

i think it should be in the game, but its overpowered right now, hence the conversation about losing LoS

[faint pendant]

Wouldnt mind giving team ping to recon only... its in the name after all.

And squad lead prolly

[snow kestrel]

Pings by default is good, The pinging to team maybe Drone because it's ✨ Technology ✨ and the attachment locked to a class is a full YES

[violet estuary]

I think the better fix for that issue is to reduce the range on the drone and give it less time in air, but make it so you can pick it up and "recharge" it.

[rapid dawn]

A single recon in a drone can reveal an entire wave of enemies pushing onto a point and give their team an edge in holding them off

[weak ether]

Would give recon something unique aye. Just fix the drones please 😭

[crystal oyster]

I'd just suicide and respawn

[rapid dawn]

That's not really a fix, that's just making things tedious

FLIR is already a pain in the ass with the battery mechanic, we don't need more of that

[snow kestrel]

The only good thing about drone now is that they can be destroyed and heard quite easily

[weak ether]

Drones shouldn’t be able to ping an entire team to begin with. Maybe a squad but not a whole 30+man push

[violet estuary]

Ok... or just give a limit to the number of pings the drone can dish out in a given time frame, or like I said before, if a pinged person is out of sight of everybody, the ping decays much faster than normal.

[night saddle]

I realized. You can Spot through Smoke by Spamming the Spotting on the Smoke Area many time to it, and they get Spotted instantly. Uh oh.

[rapid dawn]

I think they should, but as mentioned those pings shouldn't be accurate trackers

[weak ether]

A limit would be great and probably simple to implement.

[violet estuary]

Very simple

[rapid dawn]

Actually fuck it, itemized list time

[snow kestrel]

More like a limit of Pings per Cooldown: 12 seconds means you can get up to idk, 8-9 people, then when the last pings goes off, you get back the 8-9 pings

[violet estuary]

Also, make it so a drone that is pinging you get highlighted so you KNOW there is a drone and can try to target it quickly.

[weak ether]

Yeah some way to notify players of a drone would be nice.

Snipers already have a 3 second trail every time they shoot, so seeing snipers is important

But seeing drones isnt?

[crystal oyster]

that'll nerf it out of existence

[weak ether]

Good. I’d rather it be useless for now than what it is currently

[violet estuary]

How so? If you just pinged half or the entire push and your drone is nuked... didn't you serve your job?

[snow kestrel]

Say that to the drone 400m over the sky and tell me if that would nerf it

[violet estuary]

I think that would add counterplay.

[snow kestrel]

because i see that would be a good nerf/counter

[crystal oyster]

just make it spottable like a vehicle

[snow kestrel]

By the moment its spotted is either dead, or getting shot already

most drones get shot on sight (if they are ever seen)

[violet estuary]

Wouldn't it have already spotted a ton of people though?

[crystal oyster]

no, its way way easier to find it with another drone, problem is, its hard to shoot it down as a recon because you have to figure out where it is again. if you could mark it with another drone, itd come down very quickly

[violet estuary]

I am not saying the drone would be easy to see off the bat, it would show up once it starts pinging people

[weak ether]

Then why is the entire enemy team spotted for most of the game

[snow kestrel]

again, if they are ever seen

if you see one the braincell just orders you to destroy it

[faint pendant]

Agreed on drones.

[snow kestrel]

but again, if ever seen

[violet estuary]

IMO we should just start with drone being spotted on spotting others.

And if that is too strong of a nerf, go to the next option. If it makes it balanced and fixes it, woo, we did it.

[faint pendant]

imo drones need a ping range limit and/or ping cap

[violet estuary]

ping range wouldn't be bad

[weak ether]

I’d rather drones being able to spot was entirely disabled until we find a better option

[faint pendant]

E.g. can only ping x players with the drone. Pings can only be applied within 100m (radius)

[crystal oyster]

half the time i spend spotting is triangulating where the opposing drone is once ive spotted it with my own drone. If i could just press a button and have my entire team nkow where it is, then it'd drop quick

[faint pendant]

inb4 make drones themselves pingable

[tawdry egret]

pings should work like jackal in r6 where the ping only refreshes every second or so and not constantly

[violet estuary]

Give engis the ability to hack and take over drones and use it for eeevillll >:)

[faint pendant]

use the pings to destroy the pings

[rapid dawn]

Suggested changes:

• Limit their flight ceiling so they're easier to spot from the ground
• Make drones highlight on thermals so FLIR scopes can spot them easily
• Make drone pings stationary, update position on repeat pings (So they can track someone if they're looking directly at them or spot a large group of enemies but not both)
• Give drones auto-ping similar to the target detector so you don't have to use a macro to spam the spot key or RSI yourself into oblivion
• (Optional) Give drones a red-ish glint similar to snipers so people looking up can see the drone looking down at them
• (Bug) Fix drones not being able to spot vehicles

[faint pendant]

[weak ether]

Give engies the ability to remove drones from the game

[violet estuary]

They could legit add a new support deployable that scrambles pings too. Maybe makes them offset randomly.

[faint pendant]

or gadget

[violet estuary]

yeah

[faint pendant]

a'la trophy

[violet estuary]

Basically

[rapid horizon]

Limit the distance at which you can spot enemies based your current view, IE which scope you're using

[cobalt coyote]

Even better, a deployable that creates fake pings.

[crystal oyster]

bruh i aint trading in my c4 for some ping shuffler

[full orchid]

What about when the spotted enemy goes behind the walls the spot dissapears from ur line of sight but they still appear on the map

[faint pendant]

Only issue is Too many gadgets aaaaaa

[rapid horizon]

Gadgets are based

[violet estuary]

Creates Fake AND scrambles the real ones, or hides some of the real ones. Bad info can often be even worse than no info at all

[rapid horizon]

if the spots gone, it should all go

[violet estuary]

You gotta choose what you want to do, its part of the battle field forumla

[crystal oyster]

then people start ignoring pings all together and we're back to square one

[violet estuary]

I don't think so, they just wouldn't blindly follow them

[faint pendant]

Yepp, but I fear at a certain point it might feel bloated. On the other hand, it allows lots of teamplay

[violet estuary]

Yeah

For heavens sake, we have 126 teammates

[crystal oyster]

naw, you get burned a couple times and you stop trusting it

[violet estuary]

people just need to run a diverse kit

[faint pendant]

like I could 100% see myself running anti ping or anti trophy

Issue is I never see trophies in pubs

and guess what happens? nades. Everywhere

Every time 😤

[crystal oyster]

if they had sexy visuals i'd use them, i literally don't know if they ever work

[faint pendant]

They delete in a radius straight up

thru walls, etc

just set one by doors, and maybe one at the back of a room behind a barrier/sandbag

[full orchid]

I mean it encourages people to use the map more no? Idk if ppl are using the big map

[crystal oyster]

i want the visual feedback and a soundefect, make it feel good and people will use it.

[faint pendant]

Only issue is visual clutter do sho. Unfortunately it does habe an effect and sfz its just really subtle

It makes a sizzling sound rn lol

a pShhhh like you just lit a match or somethin

[crystal oyster]

just make a popup like 'frag grenade blocked!' or whatever

[rapid dawn]

Not really related but just make the sound for grenades going poof a bit more prominent, maybe play it with a small amount of extra volume to the person that threw the grenade

[faint pendant]

Yeah I would like a bit more feedback,
or like a beep or smthin

yeahh

[rapid horizon]

it's a bit goofy to use for anything other than spawning, opening and closing it causes lag and there's no grid to reference off of

[crystal oyster]

anyways, no ping gadget, we're trying to reduce their relevancy in the game, not make a new meta surrounding them

[snow kestrel]

more like no ping attachment

[crystal oyster]

if they were reduced to binoculars only itd be fine

drone is the problem

[snow kestrel]

True

Binoculars have almost no use

after glint became smaller than my self love and drones took the world

using binoculars is almost a meme

[crystal oyster]

its fun watching your automated zerglings swarm the enemy tho

[snow kestrel]

that is true

just a tiny horde of dudes swarming a poor dude hiding on a house

[full orchid]

I use it frequently to navigate around the map and see where my team is. Ive never experienced lag opening the map. But lag while opening scoreboard is another thing lmao

[snow kestrel]

they should fix that ngl

[full orchid]

I think it would be rly good. Each grid represents 100m or 50m whatever

On the map i mean

[weak ether]

This^^ features should be just not broken at launch. This shouldn’t have been allowed to go through testing to begin with

[full orchid]

Imo it would be nice, spot dissapears when they are behind the walls but still appear on the map for some seconds

[full orchid]

Yeah game freezes for 5 seconds because i decided to look at my stats is aids

[rapid dawn]

There's always things that are going to need tweaking, early access is early access

That's what you signed up for by buying the game this early

[snow kestrel]

True, but now the problem to be fixed is 3D pings

[rapid dawn]

Yep and that's why we're in this thread

Was mostly talking about Richard up there saying that things shouldn't be broken at launch

[snow kestrel]

ignore them, SO!

we have a lot of things to grab from this (because we spent lot of time on this)

Anyone can do the Resume of what we grabbed? i kinda cannot because i joined late to the conversation 🤡

[rapid dawn]

I have a little list of suggestions I made myself, let me post that first and try to summarize the rest of the thread after

[snow kestrel]

Sure! take your time

[rapid dawn]

My own suggestions:

• Limit the flight ceiling so drones are easier to spot from the ground
• Make drones highlight on thermals so FLIR scopes can spot them easily
• Make pings stationary (faded after X time?), update position on repeat pings (So they can track someone if they're looking directly at them or spot a large group of enemies but not both)
• Give drones auto-ping similar to the target detector so you don't have to use a macro to spam the spot key or give yourself RSI
• (Optional) Give drones a red-ish glint similar to snipers so people looking up can see the drone looking down at them
• (Bug) Fix drones not being able to spot vehicles

Summarized suggestions from the rest of the thread:

• Faster decay once out of line of sight (Might be computationally intensive, could be tied into combat 'status')
• Having pings fade and go stationary when someone is out of line of sight, 'refresh' when they go back into line of sight while still in the ping duration
• Return pings to being squad only
• Limit the max amount of pinged enemies you can have at a time
• Add a hard cooldown to pinging
• Give people some kind of indicator they've been spotted (This is it's own suggestion thread)
• Make drones able to be spotted
• Limit the range at which drones can spot enemies
• 3D pings only work with direct line of sight, map pings work all the time
• Add some sort of ping counter gadget

@snow kestrel This is what I've got out of the thread

[snow kestrel]

Yup, that is a lot

The pings being Squad Only is a must do (i see 127 pings every day..)

[rapid dawn]

Original pings were made way less useful by them being squad locked though

It wouldn't really be worth it as a solo player to even bother with recon, drones or spotting in general if it only affected the ~7 other guys spread out randomly over the map

[snow kestrel]

it would certainly force team play inside of squads

tho as a solo player it would create problems

The drones being able to be spotted is a good one as Orphan said

idk how a Ping counter gadget would work, also we have a lot of gadgets at the moment

[rapid dawn]

Yeah I'm not sure either, at least not in a way that would be intuitive

Drones being able to be spotted is a good one, combined with something like the decreased flight ceiling and FLIR highlighting

[snow kestrel]

yup, that is a good combination of tweaks

[faint pendant]

Comedy gold on an unrelated note

For now, I'd say implement specifically breaking ping "xray" when no LoS is maintained by opponents. I would like to see how messy pings are after that point

Because cross squad pings I feel are still gonna be fairly tame with the LoS change... I'm curious how playable it is before making it squad specific

[rotund cedar]

btw.. having a sniper up who can use a drone is basically wallhack

[faint pendant]

yea we talked abt drone nerfs in this thread a good bit too

[void crane]

I think that spotting should stay as long as anyone on the team still has some sighting towards the spotted person (and the timeout of course), so that it's as if someone is actually giving you the position of someone because they see it

But at the same time, we should be able to easily ping locations where enemies were seen before, like specific angles, because oftentimes you just saw this guy once and you know they're gonna come back here or someone else, because it's just the way they're gonna progress in the map either way

[faint pendant]

I believe that's the main point of the non/sticky pings on terrain, to point to where enemies once were

(And i think that's the consensus thus far on pings dropping as well)

[fleet steppe]

just when they make recon reconning viable, the community is going to vote to nerf pings into the ground 😔
there are too many barriers, you just wont see pings until oyu would already see the enemy yourself

[fleet steppe]

my honest reaction

[brisk garnet]

i dont think its fair

i got dragged by an eney once and clipped into a wall

i could see like 12 people

and i pinged them all as much as i could

kind of cancer tbh

[rapid dawn]

Downed pings only last for like 2 seconds though

[compact fjord]

Stop wallhack Stop 3d Ping

https://tenor.com/view/despicable-me3-despicable-me3gi-fs-minion-minions-mob-mentality-gif-19245541

[rustic mica]

Only if you bring back quick pinging the ground.

[wicked venture]

Yes please!!! 🙏🏽

I myself abuse this but understand it’s negative effect on the game

[wicked venture]

Looks like phantom forces ping system (for anyone who even knows that game lol)

[solemn mica]

It's already in game

[brisk garnet]

i mean, its the better version of this game

this game only has servers not running on roblox going for it

[lofty hull]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-yescat-cat-nodding-nod-gif-21702876

[hollow plume]

where can i vote that it should show on map, but not give a wallhack

[plush elm]

Add something like when you ping somewhere make 15 sec to ping again

[normal stream]

Pings should decay quickly when you leave line of sight. Make the drones really useful for pinging and keeping eyes on enemies, but have all other pings decay very quickly to make sure that you don't get wallhacks from target detectors, manual pings, death pings, etc

[true cloak]

^^^^^^^^

[eager stump]

This guy battlebits... I like this idea.

[dapper quiver]

This guy battlebits... I like this idea.

[vocal wyvern]

This guy battlebits... I like this idea.

[patent saddle]

maybe have the ping last for like, 2sec, after leaving FOV. no idea if that's even possibru, but it would kinda defeat the point of even caring about pinging people.

[frigid knoll]

It should just got back to the old ping system..

[patent saddle]

however, if you wanted to derail the recon class even more...as per recent history, yeah get rid of pings behind cover. sure.

gimp them even more lol

[frigid knoll]

All the changes to recon have been awful, and pings should go back to being static. except glare, that was improved.

[patent saddle]

with pings being active, it gives recons an actual job to do

if they aren't active anymore, recons literally have nothing worth using literally at all

[frigid knoll]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/799676680071020555/1162558278497218711/232D1A3D-3DBA-46D1-9EF8-D4BC8991E7BD.gif?ex=653c5fc4&is=6529eac4&hm=2714a51aecb5c31ba16ce8b4f1047609ee7657b8ad3d3a9e85a4b9b84529d776&

[patent saddle]

why does that remind me of the og beetlejuice wife mutation thing

off-topic, sorry

[stiff shale]

W take

[grim ember]

"nice argument however i have a funny image making fun of you so i'm right"

[faint pendant]

...ok I see it now.
In all seriousness, there's the other thread on these issues, about breaking when having no LoS or decaying quicker, which is a good compromise

I like decay rate where when out of line of sight, the ping stays on the opponent, but the ping goes away significantly quicker.

[still tulip]

as a dedicated spotter on some games (whenever i just need to chill), i think spotting should follow the player around. there needs to be consequences for getting spotted -- you cannot just run behind a wall and not be followed. i have noticed much more teamwork in my squad play since the introduction of the 3d ping. my buddies and i are using the voice chat feature more and communicating with one another whereever we see the red doritos pop up. i believe this type of squad/team play is the intended goal of the devs, and therefore i encourage 3d pinging through walls to stay.

[vocal wyvern]

Not a fan of it

[sharp cosmos]

sure, but this is too much. it added chore that the game benefited without.
consistently looking at the map, spamming the ping button, and shooting Doritos took us away from the action in front of us.
I'd like it if the original ping system was back, but also give recon and leader the unique perk of having their red pings be visible for other squads. even then, the visibility of these markers should be based on the proximity around the red markers themselves and the spotters who made them.
if the devs really want to keep 3d spotting, then let that be an exclusive perk for the recon and leader class - easier to balance that way.

even then it still should be based on proximity.

and of course remove wall hack.

[manic quest]

I have an idea, there's already a mechanic that can detect when you're "in combat" to prevent squad mates from spawning on you, why not take that attribute and combine it with the ideas above?
normal spot duration when "in combat" and the spot decaying rapidly otherwise
it'd probably be easier to implement too, rather then having to code something to determine if a person is "visible"

[patent saddle]

that's actually a pretty damn decent idea there...the balancing would revolve around the spot decay out of combat. it feels fine right now though

they aren't crazy long on not-recon classes

and recon should be able to keep enemies pinged, it's not like they are playing the game normally while keeping POV of drone

both feel pretty good right now imo

[stable flame]

#dev-wip message

[karmic raft]

do smokes also block it?

oh good

[normal stream]

Thanks for taking our feedback into consideration Dev team. Keep at it 🙂

[loud mica]

Much appreciated, thank you

[woven mulch]

I feel like, as long as the person who pinged the enemy still sees the enemy, the other players should be able to see the ping through walls.

[woeful delta]

It just needs to go back to how it was, or allow spots - NOT through smoke and walls, that only your squad mates can see. When I am spotted at the moment, everyone can see me. This has drastically changed the feel of the game in every round I have played in the past few days. Flanking is nearly impossible unless the other team is brain dead.

[snow kestrel]

Thanks Oki for listening to our feedback, it is a happy sight to see our concerns go away

[woeful delta]

The change to spotting is INCREDIBLE! Thank you! Back to being able to flank and move around the map strategically while also being able to spot for my mates the way it should be.

[livid vine]

so what's the point of these enemy pings now..?

why not just have them always appear on an enemy since your only going to see an enemy ping now while already looking in that direction.

serious question here

Enemy pings with these changes now essentially are only used to differate between a team mate over an enemy that's in front of you.

[violet estuary]

Yeah, ping changes in #dev-wip makes pings pretty pointless. better off just removing the system IMO.

Smoke changes hiding pings are pretty good.
Pings being hidden if enemy is obscured is not.

Basically another way that sometimes appears over an enemy that says "I am an enemy" lol. Like what?

[livid vine]

Maybe reduce the amount of time it stayed up while behind cover..?

Like for an example.. while pinged and you enter cover the ping does not stay up as long or dissapears after a second rather then the full amount of time

[violet estuary]

Netter fix: I think pings dropping off if you take cover is a great idea.
Maybe half the ping time if you go to a spot where no enemy can see you.

[violet estuary]

Ah yeah, just said that lol ^

[livid vine]

you owe me a soda

[violet estuary]

but yeah, so many better ways to solve pings being too strong

or they could add a trophy that distorts pings, adds fake ones, hides others, moves the location of valid ones

[tepid widget]

question for context. does anyone recall how BF3/4s spotting worked?

[violet estuary]

Pings appear through everything, I forget if they went away faster if you took cover, I think they did

[tepid widget]

yeah seems like if you lost LoS on the target it goes away for the team

[violet estuary]

Not immedietly

it took a second. But I think that is fine

[tepid widget]

yeah what i meant sorry

where as prior to this update it was just a static timer no?

[violet estuary]

yeah

I think taking cover and dropping a ping is perfect

it forces you to play with a brain

or... throw a smoke to instantly drop a ping

[still tulip]

How about just removing 3d pinging altogether?

[tepid widget]

and also i guess for you to maintain focus on enemies to warn the team if there is a large flank or something incoming

[violet estuary]

The only people who want pings gone are either snipers, campers or flankers (which usually ammount to people camping) 😛

[still tulip]

Nothing was wrong with the old pinging system. why should a red dorito follow someone around at all?

[tepid widget]

makes the drone useful for more than just the immediate squad. especially when you get seperated.

[violet estuary]

drone got a little OP tbf

[tepid widget]

was about to say

maybe too useful

[violet estuary]

it needs to have a battery as well as be pinged itself if it starts pinging enemies

so people can see and shoot them down

but let recons recharge and redeploy the drones if they live

[tepid widget]

think its worth having drones resupplyable? albiet at a larger cost?

[violet estuary]

or at least let support resupply them

on a timer probably

[void crane]

the last update hiding 3D spots through walls basically made it useless, instead it should show 3D spots to everyone if at least one member of the team has sight (such as recon drone for example..)

[obsidian sigil]

I'm more for the feature of telling you when someone is spotted, the game telling you a person is behind cover woudn't be a problem if they were able to remove the spotter

Im my experience, the biggest problem were always drones that were in the stratosphere so players didn't know they were being constantly spotted

A mix of spotting range on the drone and an indicator telling you that you are being watched might be more balanced nerf

[void crane]

agree about unkillable drones, but for me spotting is vital part of large scale team play, so it would be great if it could stay effective rather than becoming kinda useless overall (no different than just watching a player cross your sightlines which is pretty easy to see already no need for a spot..)

[solemn mica]

can lead to higher amount of bomber drones

[manic quest]

I mean, spotted enemies are revealed on the map, and that's pretty much it now. it also makes it easier to see them if theyre trying to camoflauge in grass or a corner

[rapid horizon]

The pings are good, it's really easy to hilight a player to a friendly

Or a camping sniper

Downside is for some reason, I think it uses the centre of the players model to determine LoS, I've spotted people in windows where I can only see their head but it doesn't mark them.

[violet estuary]

That is why instead of going away the second LoS is lost, it should just reduce the ping time greatly

but if they enter LoS again, it would go backto the original duration, whatever is left

And it should be LoS of anybody on your team, not just you

[rapid horizon]

tbh I like it better as it is now than before

I think individual LoS is fine

MAYBE LoS for your squad

[violet estuary]

I would be content LoS for squad. But I still think it should go away quickly, not right after you lose LoS. Otherwise you get kinda funky issues like the one you described.

[rapid horizon]

It's not that it goes away, it just doesn't show

If they appear again it will show until it times out

It's literally "enemy markers not visible through walls"

Not "breaking LoS removes enemy markers"

[violet estuary]

it does mark them, but since you are technically not in LoS, it immediately disappears

which acts like not being able to spot them

My theory at least, but I am pretty confident on it.
Else you should see a white ping marker if you just weren't hitting them

If you gained sight, either the marker would show up, but there is a strong chance that in code it checks that same LoS when you try to mark them, and since that fails, the mark just fails

[rapid horizon]

But, if they come back into LoS it reappears

[violet estuary]

The ones you marked in the window would appear sometimes?

[rapid horizon]

Yea

Have you played since the update?

it doesn't remove the marker, it just hides it

[faint pendant]

Does that apply to the mark on the map as well?

[violet estuary]

Ok yeah, that makes sense.
Still, either that mark should slowly vanish when you lose LoS (so you know they are marked, but out of sight).
Or your squad should be able to see the ping even when you lose LoS (Kind of similar to how it was before the ping changes)

[faint pendant]

Asked in another thread; Pinged enemies apparently stay marked on map, so its still relevant there

[violet estuary]

Oh even when not visible in 3D?

[faint pendant]

Yeah. if an enemy is pinged, then goes behind a wall, apparently they stay marked on map til the ping expires. Not sure if true but thats what was said elsewhere.

Would like a confirmation on that

[dark seal]

Im pretty sure thats true but its not that super strong of a feature, i like the current pinging system right now besides the red marks on enemies are incredibly hard to see unless they are like 10ft from you but would be broken to have all the enemy pings super big and visible

[faint pendant]

I'm ok with it personally. Helps prevent a single enemy from hanging out behind all your allies and shredding everyone in half a second, but I think its worth pointing out

[dark seal]

Yea i like where your thinking and i think personally the ping staying active after LoS is lost is fair, its not realistic or milsim but this game will never be milsim or realistic

[violet estuary]

IRL it is not nearly as easy to snipe or flank as it is in BBR.
And we have special ways to deal with "Campers" IRL.