#Knowing when you're spotted. (And perhaps pings shouldn't be seen through walls..)

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

lucid python
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Now with the many ways a player is able to be effectively spotted (side-rail attachment, drone bonus, sniper bonus, and even dead players), It's come to a point where I feel it be nice to know when the enemy currently has real time knowledge of your position.

Spotting currently also shows a player's position even when behind cover. I personally think this was a bad call. Getting prefired right as you leave cover isn't really an enjoyable experience, especially in a game where dying before you can even react is common place.

This new icon could have a timer (like shown below), or can just simply inform you that you've been marked.

image.png
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(This post is not asking for a mini-map btw. Just using an image from battlefield to show off their spotting symbol)

lucid python
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This is a great example on why you shouldn't be able to see pings through cover/concealment. The enemy was in no way at fault for dieing here expect for the fact that he was unaware he's been spotted.

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I've been taking advantage of this all day, using smoke to kill unexpecting players to the point where I'm being called the hacker by people unaware of these changes.

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stone compass
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There's going to be so many false reports. (edit: More.. more false reports)

lucid python
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The drone in particular has made this problem exponentially worse. 12 whole seconds of essentially free wall hacks for the enemy.

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Here's another clip where in this match we had 2 (or more) different drones up in the sky at all times. Their team stayed lit up like a Christmas tree the whole match. Any attempt at a push was pre-fired to hell by my teammates (I wish I recorded this)

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Knowing when you're spotted. (And perhaps pings shouldn't be seen through walls..)

thorn prawn
lucid python
thorn prawn
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👍

jade marten
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I know there's the issue where you can spot from any distance with a drone, maybe curtail that so it's not just a drone hovering at max height

lucid python
lucid python
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And honestly a limit to how far you can see a spotted enemy in general (as a player)

jade marten
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The spotting should decay rapidly once they're out of sight, I wonder if it's not doing that if spotted from a drone

lucid python
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It should, but preferably I think you shouldn't see them through walls/smoke at all.

jade marten
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That does kind of negate the purpose of spotting, though I do agree with smoke

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It would be a nice gameplay feature if going into smoke instantly removed all active spots on you

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And you couldn't be spotted while in smoke

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Would make them far more usable

jade marten
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So basically stay hidden for 2 secs and your marker vanishes

lucid python
lucid python
jade marten
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That's how it works currently

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But yea if a drones hovering at max height above you, that can be difficult

lost cedar
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Showing a player's position even when behind cover is a terrible idea in my opinion.
12 whole seconds is ridiculous.
Knowing when we're spotted would help at least, i agree.

I wish they could remove this terrible feature tho...

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Did the community vote for this ?

dapper valve
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Unless they revert/nerf some of the spot changes, this should 100% be a thing

Hot take, drone spotting should be only the old system, and targets should have an increasing cooldown of being spotted, increasing by 3 seconds each time they are spotted, within a minute, by drones.

jade marten
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Keep the new system, just make it not 10 seconds and make it so drones have to be within a certain range to spot and have limited flight time.

Current issue is you can spot from max range and can hover indefinitely

dapper valve
jade marten
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Something like max 1-2 min flight time before the batteries die

bronze fog
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there was a dedicated drone squad in my team earlier. the map was lit red with all the spots. silly feature

lost cedar
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I just played a 127v127 and it was just about looking for red dots and clicking on red dots, super fun

lucid python
# lost cedar Did the community vote for this ?

I don't think anyone realized that you would visible by every enemy across the entire map, from just watching the dev videos. And with pinging being broken last week we couldn't really see its potential until now. I love the new system, but its definitely needs to be worked on.

grim abyss
grim abyss
lucid python
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I don't think this is the case. The only spots that last for only 2 seconds are from dead players and the attachment. Every other spot last much longer. Regardless if they can no longer see you

frosty cape
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I'd say staying hidden (out of line of sight of all hostiles) accelerates the ping duration by a certain amount, or something along those lines

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like 200%-300% faster maybe, or just remove it after "X" seconds out of line of sight

frosty cape
frosty cape
hardy moss
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If a drone gets shot down, the markers on people should disappear as well

lucid python
frosty cape
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It wasnt said but I'd like to see it

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Afaik right now its as simple as:

  • players ping for 4 seconds
  • recon gets double ping (8s)
  • drones get 12s pings
  • pings are blocked by foliage
lucid python
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Sorry, I already know those, I'm talking about what you said about pings disappearing when out of sight. Could you link where oki said that?

frosty cape
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He didn't; I'm saying it would make a damn good feature though

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afaik. once you apply a ping, it sticks to you til that timer runs out

lucid python
frosty cape
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apparently Yeti came up with it first so credit him 😝
something about originality being dead

jade marten
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This is something Oki stated in updates and in another thread discussing it, no idea if it was actually implemented but afair losing sight should make markers decay rapidly

prisma timber
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Knowing when the entire enemy team can see me through all terrain and LOS would be REALLY helpful to, actually playing the game.

marsh apex
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Do you guys just not assume that the enemy can see you? This just sounds like one more annoying thing to pop up on my HUD while I'm trying to play.

prisma timber
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I assume they can see me, but i have to guess its 2 seconds, 4 seconds, 12 seconds? Playing when 120ish some players know where you are at is not really fun. Its possible and people are still playing but its a very unpleasant experience compared to pre-spotting

jade marten
prisma timber
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If that were the case you would only ever see 4 enemies. Its currently limited to 4 ping per squad, allowing up to 60 people per team

jade marten
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6 pings per squad, which I think got upped to 10

prisma timber
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The math aint mathing on it being squad only. The experience of having a red dot following you in the same regardless, still feels bad LUL

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jade marten
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Sorry yea, 6 pings per squad

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I guess Oki fucked up somewhere then, he did say before it would be squad-visible only

azure rain
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People are voting no in the updates channel

prisma timber
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For better or worse, it is kind of irrelevant what the votes in that channel are. Its still ultimately up to what oki and gang want their game to play like. Also the sample size and biases that will inherently come with discord based voting.. its pretty removed from the average player

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Which again, depends on who they want the game to be for.

raw remnant
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Yeah it should be a small UI element imo, nothing massive

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People who are voting no don't have functioning eyeballs is all :' )

fallow portal
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yes pls omg this is so good to know

prisma timber
raw remnant
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And I was honestly hoping for spotting to be more limited, doesn't seem to be the case atm

fringe kestrel
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I don't like if the clue is visual because it's easy to see and make everyone hiding, when I think in a clue that gives you the knowledge if someone spotted you it's better a sound clue than a visual one, making the player more focused in the sound, the sound needs to be very loud and distinct for the rest of the ambience sounds

vivid loom
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I like the idea, but IMO it should be delay somewhat, so the point of spotting isn't completely lost

fringe kestrel
signal mountain
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I dont like the live pinging in general should be double tap red ping meaning enemy/danger in area one tap directional white ping like it used to be kinda

fringe kestrel
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Spotted needs to be limit to 8 - 10 people

prisma timber
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If you play a sound, you will either begin to tune the sound out, or it will be so prevelant it will likely drive you mad. There is a reason visual and audio indicators are often used in conjunction.

fringe kestrel
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The visual indicator needs to be very short in duration, so this gives you with the sound the clue when you're spotted

brisk spear
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The visual indicator should be for drone or sniper spots. Or When you get spotted for the longest duration possible then The visual indicator should pop up

fringe kestrel
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So if you Hear the sound but not the alert you can hide for 4 sec, if you see the alert hide for 16 - 18 sec

prisma timber
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I would like to not play a guessing game on how long I am glowing for or have to think "was that the ping sound?". Variance doesnt always equate to enjoyment, simple shit works LUL

jade marten
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Automatically knowing when you're spotted is weird and not really a fun gameplay mechanic, it just leads to turtling and hiding whenever you see the ping go off.

raw remnant
prisma timber
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That, is kind of what you get with a spotting system. The current spotting iteration takes all player agency over their visbility away, thats' kind of insane. The enemy is given multipe tools of varying length with no counterplay, and it is still supposed to be a video game

raw remnant
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^

prisma timber
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So yeah, you can have people hide when spotted or you can have the current system of run around and assume everyone can see you all the time. Making things like smoke (an admitted bug), walls and flanks, irrelevant. You might as well just hold w and pray

azure rain
raw remnant
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Like i've had no issues spotting players prior to this change, no idea why people think it's a good thing that someone can back map and spot everyone with no cooldown

prisma timber
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I dont think "people" in general are enjoying the change. Thats why we are in this thread talking about it and oki has taken notice to it

raw remnant
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If I had a hard time seeing someone, it's because they were actually running camo that made sense for their position

jade marten
prisma timber
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The hard part is people agreeing on, what is fun, is there a way we make this change good?

raw remnant
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Put a cooldown on spotting on the same enemy for like 5 seconds

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or 4 seconds even

azure rain
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All I really want is drastically increased spotting decay behind cover

jade marten
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knowing when you're spotted as a fix to cross-map spotting spam and infinite drone spotting is honestly a very weird take and a non-fix

prisma timber
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It doesnt fix it, but it would let me play the game slightly more and i will take anything over the current iteration

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Its also just weird as shit to introduce an "arcadey" mechanic like spotting, but leave out the part where the player knows LUL

jade marten
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How does it fix it? you're still spotted regardless.

prisma timber
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I can choose to not run out into bullets for 4 -12 seconds

jade marten
prisma timber
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Right on

jade marten
prisma timber
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Theres another thread for that NODDERS

raw remnant
jade marten
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Yea I know, but those fix the issue far better than this

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without adding weird mind-reading jank

raw remnant
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Yeah, I have the same playstyle and it just makes me want to not actually peek and just wait for red dorito to walk into me

swift osprey
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as well as all call of duties (announcing when enemy uav is active)

jade marten
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Pretty sure they didn't, I think you can detect nearby UAV's but it's not like World of Tanks, where you get a big warning sign to show that you're spotted

azure rain
swift osprey
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my comment was kinda rhetorical
they did 🤔

jade marten
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ok, I'm 99% sure BF games DON'T allow you to tell if you're spotted, except BF5 which put a little yellow alert on your minimap, but this was added after launch

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But specifically, BF5 does't have 3D spotting

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apart from maybe the spotting scope for recon, I can't remember

frosty cape
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Honestly if you aren't playing aggressively constantly/out in the open you shouldnt have pings on you long anyways, right?

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Not sure just how necessary the notification is so much as them not tracking nonstop behind walls

jade marten
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If Oki makes it so pings disappear shortly after LoS is broken, it's a non-issue

fringe kestrel
jade marten
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same difference, you still know you're spotted

lucid python
# azure rain People are voting no in the updates channel

Unfortunely I think that's due to okis wording of the suggestion. He added a negative leaning sentence at the end. Most people who don't acutually click into the suggestion and vote off that alone are going to see this as a possible negative change just by the way he worded it. He should just left it simple like the first vote above. #dev-wip message

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F it, gonna @ him. He has "do not disturb" enabled, but its worth a shot. Especially that hes practically now involved with this discussion in one way or another.

tropic trout
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worst case you eat a bullet for us (:

lucid python
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@half mirage sorry to @ you Oki Okiheadpat Thanks for putting my suggestion up for vote, but I have to be honest, when you add a subjectively negative sentence at the end it's kind of going to skew the vote for anyone that simply votes off of what you wrote.
(which seems to be a lot of people)

You can tell this is the case because most people that actually clicked into the thread to read more still predominantly voted yes here once they fully understood the suggestion.

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Quote I'm reffering to:
"possibly making them hold their position until the spot fades away? Or it could be possibly annoying"

jade marten
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He's not wrong, it would be annoying

lucid python
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Another example of why wallhacks are bad. Literally saved me from a squad pushing me. (sorry for the god awful aim. New mouse + first game on)

runic prawn
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i think a better thing would be if the live ping wasn't automatic from an attachment you lose nothing to run. or if recons couldn't live ping 90% of the enemy team with their drone

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it's literally legal wallhack rn

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and with the smoke changes enough people are spamming those you can basically just stare at smoke and rack up kills without ever actually seeing anyone

lucid python
runic prawn
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like 120/29 for stats if you're curious how stupid it is (i'm bad at 127 frontline)

lucid python
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Well, thankfully it looks like the suggestion regarding "seeing pings through walls" is doing well with votes. So at least the biggest issue will be addressed. It would still be nice to know if your being spotted, even if its just a small, soundless little icon on the side of your screen. Anything would be great.

runic prawn
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i dont really care if i know if i'm spotted or not, just assume you're always spotted. but i'd rather see the ways you can be spotted tuned down

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recon drones probably don't need to ping for 12 seconds... just saying

lucid python
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Indeed. espeically if they already spot team-wide

hardy moss
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5 seconds and if drone dies, all the spots goes away imo.

azure rain
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Keyword 'if'

thorny sedge
stone ginkgo
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It will probably be shown 99% of the time then.. I don't really like the idea of having this.
I suppose snipers will love it, they can just hold one direction and then hide whenever that pops up 🙃 (Which isn't a good thing)

rustic cove
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Part of being a successful game dev is to point out possible issues. Even though its widely approved in here, you have to either add the issues that could arise, or the results of what changing something will do.

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The tool could be used to also give every player who makes the mistake of walking into enemy line of fire the tools to correct their mistake faster than they normally would.

lucid python
hardy moss
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Drone spotting range and if drone leaves the vicinity after a certain meter?

lucid python
lucid python
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Recon is probably my least played class, but even before the recent nerfs I never thought they were much of a problem.
I Would really only die to them like twice in a whole game..
Mostly it's just me beaming them with an AR 100meters away. Now they're even less threatening.

runic prawn
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can i be honest, every sniper nerf is deserved until vilaskis stops making dogshit maps with no cover and massive sightlines

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i don't have an issue with snipers specifically. but when like every single map is built in such a way that you're CONSTANTLY exposed to hundreds of angles JUST from snipers who you can't respond to anyway, it's a fucking shitshow

lucid python
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Yes the maps are definitely the problem I agree. I simply just avoid playing maps that aren't designed well in my opinion.

stone compass
runic prawn
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fix the maps, then roll back the sniper nerfs

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like imagine if snipers had no glint no bullet trail and couldnt be pinged on dustydew, just as an extreme example

lucid python
runic prawn
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depends on gamemode, a lot of frontline maps have problems after the first 1-2 objs have been pushed through it just becomes a wall of snipers

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you enter the thunderdome of snipers in every fucking direction

lucid python
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Neverbeen a fan of frontline, to many balance issues. I usually stick to Dom and Infconq

runic prawn
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im a dom player normally but dom seems to be dying out given that the servers i usually play in havent had players for 3-4 days

lucid python
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But I also only mostly play 64v64

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Too much going on in 124v124

runic prawn
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yeah same, 64v64 dom, vanguard hasn't had players literally all weekend

stone compass
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Our servers change slot dynamically, so I do lots and lots of tdm, rush and as more people come in it's dom, and ctf ect.

lucid python
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Vanguard is done yeah. But there are others. They have vanilla rules though for the most part. No 100 heal and quick reload like vanguard but there still fun

runic prawn
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i already miss the early days of vanguard

lucid python
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That server alone was the reason for my 4k kills on the mp7. Good times

runic prawn
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that server is the reason for 7k p90 kills 5k ump kills, 3k mp7 kills and ~8k vector kills

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i have a mental illness ^.^

lucid python
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Damn son. It's hard for me to stick to a weapon for that long 💀 how many hours you got in game?

runic prawn
lucid python
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Ah 260 currently. My highest gun is only around 4k, I switch around too much lol

median sail
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This isnt a sim but there should be no way to know if you are spoted. If im running looking at the ground there should be no reason for me to know if someone is watching me

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But the first previous spotting system worked better if i spot you there the red marker should stay at that spot not follow you around. I cant at all deny that

hardy moss
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I liked that the ping just stayed. it showed recent activity but not live. If I see someone spam ping, then that general direction has/had enemy and I can choose to go or not

lament linden
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I dont think 3D spotting should be a thing in BB, especially with gadgets that auto-spot. For one, its gonna be much easier for people to cheat and claim spotting as their reason for "advanced knowledge", it also will ruin flanks because people can accidentally spot someone they didnt know about that was flanking, and now that whole flank was for nothing. I think 2D spotting on the map was fine, but 3D spotting not only clutters screens even more than they already are with blue dots, but also makes the game more about shooting the red dots instead of shooting the enemy

tardy sparrow
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i think i posted something like this yesterday, had not realized this was up already

hollow geyser
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there should be no way to know if you are spoted. If im running looking at the ground there should be no reason for me to know if someone is watching me

agree

i don't need to blow my cover or alert the enemy of my presence by pinging someone.

that will just gurantee i'll never use the ping feature

runic prawn
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just remove 3d ping problem solved

hardy juniper
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I think spotting should be a map only function so if someone spots someone else it only displays on the main map not even the mini map, so you have to pull up intel and not be able to aimbot people through smokes etc

raw remnant
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Yeah old ping was WAY better than this current system, at least then you'd have a good idea of where they are and not a exact

rugged bridge
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If they keep the current spot system then yes. If they tone it back than no. Down players should not be abke to spot, team wide 3d spotting should be removed and only applied to players within a small rang round the player. 3d spot should be removed when the enemy breaks LOS of all players that have hit spot on them.

woven patrol
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having a notice when your pinged would be interesting. it has the possibility of making pings MORE effective because of the psychological affect on those who are tagged. i still think most people don't pay attn to pings.

hardy moss
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Id prefer less stuff on the screen.

stone compass
# hardy moss Id prefer less stuff on the screen.

The map spotting was an alright idea, now it's interfering with what I see on screen and even the community hardcore I play has it because we don't know if it's going to improve and we don't want to have disable drones and automatic targeting to bring it back down to a (my opinion, a fun pace.)

I don't know yet if it's something that can be disabled yet.

lucid python
stone compass
lucid python
north topaz
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just my 2 cents, but i dont think people should know when they're spotted. bbr is a contemporary milsim shooter, and in contemporary military engagements, as seen in current conflicts, combatants do not know when they're spotted, especially by drones. there's a reason for this: if a person knows they're spotted,, then they will take evasive action to avoid consequences from being spotted. thus, to keep the integrity of the spotting mechanic, and to adhere to real-world mechanics, we should not give notice to players who have been spotted. to do this would be a disservice to the player who has taken on the effort of successfully finding an enemy player and spotting them.

fringe kestrel
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agree

stone compass
north topaz
brave lagoon
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It doesn't matter if people know if they've been spotted or not. My drone sees all. There is no escape. There is no hiding.

eye.jpg
hot lichen
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Absolutely necessary, there a sensors irl that can detect when a camera is looking at it.

runic prawn
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perks soon?

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scav+cold blood+stalker lets gooooo

hidden delta
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RE: Drone nerfs (Battery, spotting range)
The drones essentially having 1 HP makes them easy as hell to shoot out of the sky, and they can't be restocked (to my knowledge! please do correct me if I'm wrong).

If you have a team of dedicated recon spotters in the air, they're not going to be whizzing around at max height. They'll stop to ping because it's hard as hell to ping on the move. A single shot from your "counter recon" dedicated squad with M200s so they don't even have to put any brainpower into calculating bullet drop, and it's out for a while.

I'd be okay with nerfing their range, but a battery life would ruin the gadget for me. Unless I can resupply it / or it goes back up quickly, (maybe a 2:1 or 3:1 flight time to recharge time ratio), I feel like it defeats the purpose of the tool.

If I'm not actively clicking heads with my M200 and helping the team push a point on the ground.. I hope I can at the very least be equally as valuable in the air.

Recon is a valid playstyle, not all players need to be Snipers or Marksmen.

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Agreed on all other points made concerning spotting, however!

I've been vouching for recon drone spots to be map-only, and not like the direct line of sight 3d spotting.

If it were map only, your squad lead / whoever's communicating in your squad most should keep an eye on it and coordinate, preferably using the newly implemented squad markers to say "2 squads' worth on Observe mark, 1 squad flanking on Attack mark".

I don't like the current status where recons can singlehandedly keep a whole push pinged either.. they should give intel, yes.. but not extremely detailed, refreshed every millisecond, through-wall, map-wide intel.

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If my idea of map-only recon drone pings isn't popular enough to get vouched for and implemented.. then I think that limiting the duration of a ping, based on range, would be fine.

I'd think of it like shooting some sort of IR beam/lasso.. the further you are, the quicker it disconnects.

If you're directly above the ping, I'd leave it at the current duration.

For each X meters away you are, lower it by 50%, until your cross-map marks are ~1s or ~2s blips.

It still rewards you and your team with intel, just.. not the ludicrous amount of intel it does right now.

I'm leaving the "wallhack" discussion aside because Oki already said they hate how it looks and wasn't what they wanted anyways, so it's not part of the picture here.

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Another alternative solution would be to require actively being within camera vision of the drone to be pinged for the full duration.

Any time the camera moves off, the ping fades twice or thrice as quick. This would mean that in order to have a big group pinged for the whole duration, you'd need the drone operator to play SCP and just not blink the whole time, staring at them, so you get the full impact, limiting the rest of their impact and trading it in for maximum vision 👁️

tropic pebble
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there's no reason for 3d spotting to be in battlebit in the first place, just being able to ping locations was enough

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i hate to see that we're at a stage where we're suggesting bandaid fixes for ill-considered game mechanics like this

sullen nymph
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Yeah, I don't like 3D spotting either. I also sometimes even mistake enemy for a friendly. Just because the friendly 3D spotting, unfortunately lines up with enemy and I do not see the enemy's one.