#Please Stop Changing Core Gameplay Elements

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

mossy moth
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I feel the devs are focusing far too much on trying to make fundamental changes to the game and how it's played. I think that this stems from a focus on trying to 'fix' the parts of the game that made the ~70k players who quit at launch quit. Why focus on trying to get those people back when you already have a 8-10k concurrent player strong community (post TR)? Like it or not, some of the people who quit just don't like the game at it's core and never will, that's fine. You have to realize that those people wont come back unless at the expense of the current dedicated community who likes the game as it is. Are you sure that tradeoff is worth it? That there are more players who will come back than those who will quit because they lost what they enjoyed about this game? Why not instead try to find out what made players STAY and cater to that? Rather than focusing on what made players LEAVE cater to what made players stay, and grow your community from there.

tldr: Bottom line is there is something that the 8-10k concurrent players enjoy about this game. Instead of making changes hoping to get players who quit back, make changes that keep and grow the current player base by adding to what they love, not taking from it.

coarse widget
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The game is in early access.

mossy moth
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Dont care

tawdry maple
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games stay in early acsess for years

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that doesnt mean anything

grand forum
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It means the game is in a volatile state, and relatively early in development - Can't knock the devs for trying to find a proper identity and feel for the game when it's quite literally still in development.

grand forum
mossy moth
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Why fix what's not broken? The odds that you actually find an identity better than the one that is netting you 8k concurrent players is so low its ridiculous. Especially considering you dont have another launch to build hype for the game. All that's gonna happen is the ones who stayed are gonna leave, and the ones who left arent gonna come back because they dont know what's changed.

grand forum
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I'd like to think if the game is good, people will spread word around. Shit, that's how I heard abt it in the first place, through a handful of friends who played it

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I don't think it really matters what the current state of the game is, as long as it maintains a half decent playerbase that can pull other players in. Obviously wouldn't just make the player count spike or anything, but still

cold matrix
grand forum
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Idk, I've been trying to get back into it, and enjoying it more with recent changes ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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Opinions are always gonna be there with stuff like this

cold matrix
grand forum
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You're free to, but you need to keep in mind the devs aren't perfect and are gonna make mistakes, not to mention how often they look to this community for feedback. If the community as a whole isn't working alongside the devs with the game's best interests in mind, then it isn't gonna be much good for anyone involved

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in general, a handful of changes are gonna seem really gross to some people, but still have reasonable balance decisions. there may even be better alternatives, but helping the devs come to that consensus is key imo

fallen pond
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Battlebit reverted 🫡

mossy moth
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I think that Oki should read Harrison Bergeron.

fallen pond
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if you haven't

heady dune
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As is usually the case in these cases. Changes are made. Those who left don't come back, and those who stayed leave. Profit

A great example is bf. People didn't like it and left. Over the years there have been many fixes to what they didn't like and people don't come back.

grand forum
mossy moth
heady dune
# mossy moth

Am I missing something, why do they have such low damage?

fallen pond
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there he got it before me

brazen bear
fallen pond
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🫃increased ttk on top of movement overhaul

mossy moth
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All damage numbers are reduced by 33%

fallen pond
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mk20 having more damage than the ebr in that sheet 💀

heady dune
brazen bear
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7 shots to kill on normal armor with the AS VAL is quite funny

mossy moth
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Is it even possible to kill 2 exos with a single as val mag?

heady dune
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If this solution is just for testing, I'm not panicking. I'm even interested in trying it out. Maybe, by the way, this is one of the solutions to the 1 frame death problem. That's what Okie said, that to solve 1 frame death you have to increase the time to kill

fallen pond
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@fallow crag whats your reasoning for 'X'ing ?

heady dune
mossy moth
heady dune
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I want to be able to shoot 3 opponents with 1 magazine. Not that I ran out of ammo on the 1st one. Especially in a game where there can be 127 people on the server in the enemy team and just by probability theory there is 100% someone waiting for you around the corner

grand forum
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I see no issue with increasing TTK, when it's so low atm, as long as the TTK for weapons compared to eachother is abt the same

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Leads to longer firefights and more engaging gameplay in a lot of games in my experience, as long as they don't overdo it

fallen pond
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Well his reasoning was to incorporate impact fragging but impact fragging is not a thing in 127v127 game

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can work well in smaller modes but don't see how it will benefit the bigger modes

unique gyro
# mossy moth

this means you are punished for not hitting your shots, ESPECIALLY on BR

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what's the point of them now?

fallen pond
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to imbue a sense of reward for scoring a kill

mossy moth
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I like bbr in LARGE part because it has the opposite of both of those things, and now those are the things that are at risk the most.

grand forum
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Idk, I like the back-and-forth that comes from not being able to consistently shred people in a few hits personally. In terms of TTK, it's still pretty damn low, even if it's a relatively big jump. And in terms of kill/mag, I definitely think it's worth considering, but I wouldn't mind changes there either - I'd have to try playtests or something to get a feel for it

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I'm usually not a fan of extremely low TTKs in general because you end up with the "who shoots first wins" issue

fallen pond
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you can check it I believe, just try the beta branch ?

grand forum
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I was under the impression they had to launch servers for it still? if it's already up, yeah I'm willing to try it

fallen pond
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yeah you can checkout from beta branch in steam launch settings

grand forum
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And I'd also like to point out the MilSim mode will likely have much lower TTKs as well I imagine, and if this is only the first 'pass' of the balancing there's a good chance it won't be as drastic

grand forum
clear gyro
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sigh

grand forum
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Why the sigh 👀

fallen pond
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🤣 no way you know about that

heady dune
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I'm not very good at math. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I would take the change in kill time to mean that it now, on average, takes 4 bullets to kill. On average. And if they made it 5. A small increase, not a huge increase at all. (This is about averages)

the way I see it, a 33% reduction in damage is a lot. An increase in kill time by a factor of two. That's kind of overkill.

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the reaction skillet just turns to garbage. You could play under 3 beers with a TTK like that

brazen bear
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i don't like dmrs in their current state but mk20 being a 5shot kill on normal armor is hilariously bad

heady dune
mossy moth
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Dont worry movement will be nerfed to accomadate 5 shot kill semiautos.

azure fractal
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TRUE

grand forum
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Yeah no I don't think beta is working atm unless there's something I'm missing

mossy moth
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Thats a you issue

heady dune
grand forum
grand forum
heady dune
pastel junco
grand forum
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Yeah I think breakpoints are screwy in that case which means you end up with a lot more than 50%, nearly double

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issues like that

night hatch
heady dune
night hatch
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🤔

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I'm fine with higher TTK. But I'd prefer if they reduced firerate, augmented recoil, increased HS Multiplier and didn't reduce that much the damage.

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Well this is on the test server? so I guess it's a fast quick way to test.

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33% is a lot. But that's the value that can affect all guns.

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Or you coud keep the damage like this. But increase firerate to have a middle ground? Pekora_Not_Ogey HS multiplier would still need a up.

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Armor would obviously need a touch too

hushed widget
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higher ttk, increased HS Multiplier is just gonna increase the skill gap by a LOT more and will give good aimers an even higher advantage in a fight so idk if people really want that OMEGALUL

heady dune
hushed widget
heady dune
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There was an idea to make a milsim mode, so let it be all tactics in that milsim swamp, not in a regular arcade. I don't want to lie in the bushes, I want to run around, do 360s and have fun.

raven pelican
near token
jovial nebula
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Wait what is that ttk jesus

near token
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time to kill

jovial nebula
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Like how are people even going to stand a chance against good players with higher ttk, now I can lose a gunfight to a "worse" player with a higher ttk and better damage on hs they 'll lose

pastel junco
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but i mean he's a bad player and got a few kills he didn't deserve so...

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u gotta reward good players right?

hushed widget
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what is your point? 💀

pastel junco
hushed widget
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well yeah, it makes no sense

azure fractal
pastel junco
jovial nebula
tardy raptor
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Is this in the beta test or in the actual game right now?

weary snow
tardy raptor
mossy pendant
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I'm still pretty sure what made the 70k players stop playing was just variety mixed with some game balance stuff. I think it's more important to make the game real fun to play first then add content that fits. If they add more maps then change up all the attachments for example, the maps will feel really out of wack and not be fun to play at all

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Also, the only core element that's really been messed with is just healing lol

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Which still needs more messing with imo

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They've been adding spotting and stuff too, which isn't bad. I think the main "issue" is that when these things are implemented they're usually not 100% thought out

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By thought out I mean there's also some very obvious issue, or something doesn't work quite right. The new test environment should help with that (if used properly)

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All the new updates have only made the game more enjoyable to play for the most part for me. Massive rebalancing is content for me because it means guns are a new experience for me personally. So I don't mind what they've been doing. If they try to chase player numbers instead of making a solid game it'll just lead to them releasing half hearted content updates that aren't well thought out and don't gel with future updates. Meaning if they did another free weekend people would hop in and be like "oh, this game isn't as cool as people were saying"

fallen pond
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sorry to interrupt, but I think mostly this post is about ttk and movement in the beta

mossy pendant
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Like, the game ain't lethal company. Leathal company has blown TF up because it's a small lobby size game that can be played no matter how active it actually is with randoms or friends. It's a highly replayable game that's goofy and just funny. This game isn't the same kind of game and isn't directly comparable - but I feel like some people see leathal company and are like "why can't BBR be that".

Movement wise and such, it's literally fine lol. Solidifying what you want the core game to feel like is kind of the #1 most important thing

mossy pendant
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"Why not instead try to find out what made players STAY and cater to that? Rather than focusing on what made players LEAVE cater to what made players stay, and grow your community from there"

I think the key mistake here is assuming dev intentions with this stuff. To me, all the updates have been improving gripes I personally have had with the game while playing. Like being able to 180 with no consequences (a slight speed slowdown isn't going to kill movement), most attachments being useless (they kind of fixed this, still needs work imo, go bipod), smokes being not very useful (buff coming yay), support being annoying to use (attachments don't slow him down as much, ammo works like medkit), not being able to self heal at launch, etc

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So what's negative to some peeps might just be positive to the slient peeps, if that makes sense.

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Like, what made players leave? I personally believe it's lack of variety and QoL for new players. At launch leveling up took eons, the menus were (and still are) clunky, healing was kind of annoying, the vector was a nightmare, the maps were repeated a ton, etc. Most of that has been improved over time.

If you look at the player numbers BBR has sat around 10k since the masses dipped out. It dipped to around 6k during the like 2 month long update break, but rose back up after updates starting coming again. This game is NOT dying clearly imo. We've got our playerbase, like us or not, and that's pretty impressive I think.

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Here's some images before someone's like "game dying"

image.png image.png image.png image.png
terse egret
mossy pendant
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Wtf is harrison bergeron lol

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Ah it's a nerd book, got it 👍

terse egret
mossy pendant
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Oh yea, it said it was a satire. Sounds like a funny book. Kind of like that satire thing people take seriously that says "you rise in a company till you can't do the job anymore", which was never said seriously but was taken seriously by people

terse egret
mossy pendant
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I may like chum, but his takes lately have defo been a bit wack

mossy moth
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Which is exactly what every change this discord advocates for does, which is why i think it's an apt comparison.

mossy pendant
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TLDR for my stuff cuz I yap: "Eh changes are fine, player numbers are consistent"

terse egret
mossy moth
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Why?

terse egret
# mossy moth Why?

Because it makes it seem like you believe all these changes were made due to people who were upset that you/your playstyle was too much for their skill to handle.

As opposed to the possibility that people just found those mechanics/strategies to be annoying and/or stupid.

Most of the complaints I saw about wiggling weren't that the other person was hard to hit, but that it looked fucking stupid while you shot them in the legs and killed them

mossy pendant
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I think it's kind of a bit hyperbolic to say that the skill ceiling is being brought down, when making movement slightly more complex makes it higher imo, just in a different way.

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Balancing attachments, fixing up healing, etc, defo did not bring down the skill ceiling either since it was basically good for everyone but medic lol

mossy moth
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No, I think they wanted to remove the strategies despite them not being effect by them because they dont like that the good players are getting a better score than them. This is the only explanation that is consistent with everything. Specifically the amount of noise they are making about movement shows this to be true considering the movement analysis I did.

mossy moth
mossy pendant
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I'll try it a bit later

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Oh also, new update launched today

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Didn't see that till now

mossy moth
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beta branch has been up for a while, only works in practice range

weary snow
mossy pendant
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Idk about that, I don't get that from that message personally

mossy pendant
terse egret
mossy moth
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You can still test movement.

mossy moth
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The odds of you finding a DISCORD message that cites a source are so low and yet you choose to use that gif in reaction to the one single message like that that exists in this server

mossy pendant
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Oki is supposed to post up a server for the beta branch sometimes. I'll test the movement sure.

My issue with movement currently has always been that you just kind of move the mouse as fast as you want and just be wiggly to throw people off. It's really not difficult or that high a skill ceiling tbh. Idk why peeps act like it is. You can agree it's fun, but it's not skillfull or anything. I think it's fun, but I'd prefer it not be that way personally

terse egret
mossy moth
mossy moth
tardy raptor
terse egret
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Honestly, i wasn't even gonna comment in this thread until I saw the harrison begeron thing

mossy moth
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😱

mossy pendant
rigid kestrel
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And even if was true that it almost never happen, the fact that it can happen is enough to nerf it in my humble opinion

mossy moth
mossy pendant
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I mean, I use empty engineer now

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so I jump around, avoid gunfire, generally move pretty fast

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It's basically just crackhead gameplay. So I'm one of those 11 instances, and I think it's pretty dumb looking and simple lol

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I've fought people who do it too, it's just a bit silly

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I'ma boot up the beta now and see the movement stuff

mossy moth
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The conclusion that I drew from that was that it only happened 2.75 times per hour to me, which is biased becase half the games took place in sweat lobbies.

mossy pendant
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It was much worse when medic was reigning, people hide a bit more to bandage heal for sure now

mossy moth
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So the number for a casual will be much much lower

mossy pendant
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Medic had a much easier time moving, jumping around, etc, while healing to avoid getting killed

mossy moth
mossy pendant
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in the practice range, I literally notice no different when moving with engineer light pack/empty armor

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like maybe a very slight half second to accelerate when 180 turning

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I can still wiggle left the back to the right to avoid gunfire fine

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so I'm not sure if the movement thing is in the beta branch

mossy moth
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Try moving normally, dont just try to do 180s

mossy pendant
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When jumping from that mag, I landed where the mine is when I 180'd and when I just jumped forward from sprinting up to it

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oh wait

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maybe baaaaarely farther

mossy moth
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Try running forward, then jumping, then holding s

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Or just jumping while running, then letting go of your movement keys

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or just jumping in place then holding a movement key

mossy pendant
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ok so I do go very slightly farther when sprint jumping I think

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I'll try what you're saying

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Here's a super shitty graphic

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So for the backwards jump, the mine is when I DON'T SPRINT but just hold s

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the mag is for when I sprint towards the jump point, do a 180, then hold S

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the farther mine is where I can reach just sprint jumping and sprinting towards it and 180 degree turning and holding W

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So like, I'll sprint towards it from the sunlit area, then 180 degree turn while holding W for that farther mine

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or I'll just sprint jump from the shaded area

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I can get barely farther than that far mine by just sprint jumping sometimes

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Like, holding S is the main thing that's slower, but that's because I'm not sprinting at all I think

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Sprinting towards the jump point mine and holding S to go backwards without turning also leads me to that middle mine

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I'll go to the main branch now, test for differences

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seems almost the same on the main branch

image.png
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same exact tests

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forgot to do the holding S test

image.png
hard lintel
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the devs want this game to be a milsim and failed pretty poorly at it.

mossy pendant
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@barren cosmos yo sorry for the ping, but I just wanted to ask. Are the movement changes on the beta branch currently? Seems like they're not and just wanted to make sure for the sake of this convo.

hard lintel
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they will continue to make changes in a chase for this until the game is no longer popular

rigid kestrel
mossy pendant
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But that would be really funny

rain matrix
mossy pendant
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Funny related CS story. Around the CS source times, peeps said pings got worse in CS source even though literally nothing changed, so to make players stop complaining about it they just halved the displayed ping.

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The finals is going through something similar with movement where 0 changes have happened, but everyone thinks the game is slower

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Player perceptions are very important strangely enough. Game feel is an artform tbh

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Also if Oki shows up here actually (thx if you do), ya don't need to read context or anything, answering the question is all good 😎 👍

mossy moth
mossy pendant
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My poorly drawn arrows with dots was me trying to convey that

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I never jumped from a standstill. Always walked or sprinted

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Like I would sprint and 180, or sprint and hold S

mossy moth
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Its very noticable. If you couldnt tell that movement was different you either move in a very weird way in game or you didnt have the new movement

mossy pendant
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It's not the most scientific of tests I know, but point is I'm not noticing any changes in movement no matter how I jump around, move, etc

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and I was on the beta branch, steam said beta

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it's possible I already move my mouse in the intended way to get max speed though, but I was flicking as fast as possible this time

mossy moth
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The changes made to movement were that you only have air control in the direction of your motion when you left the ground, so you can only change direction by moving your mouse, instead of through direction keys

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Ironically mouse waving is the type of movement that was supposed to be nerfed, not side to side strafing.

mossy pendant
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I'm pretty sure it was the other way around

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like that was the intention

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I didn't notice anything while holding S or anything. I don't do side to side strafing in mid air because it's slow af anyway

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I'll try it again I guess in a sec

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just jump and hold A or D?

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Like I would sprint towards the jump point, jump, then hold S without turning around when jumping towards the middle mines, but lemme try again a few different ways

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Ok, beta branch screenshot

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This is just me sprinting towards the left mine, then jumping, and holding various directions. I also tried walking into it (holding W), then holding a different direction (S, A, D, etc)

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basically I tried every which way to move around in the air without using mouse control to get farther

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So no holding W and using the mouse to turn at max speed

weary snow
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So now this is Roblox quake, when can we expect rocket jumping to be added.

mossy pendant
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here's the current branch

image.png
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Either whatever changes have been implemented, or it's literally no different

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or barely noticable

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The game still feels intuitive, I can still jump around like normal. So either there's 0 changes since last patch on either branch, or the movement changes are so miniscule that the way I swing around I can't notice it.

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sorry the screenshots weren't in the exact same place and all that, but they were so similar I figured it wasn't worth pixel measurements

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I specifically tried to hit space before hitting a different movement direction with these two tests

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so like, I'd hold W, hit space, then hit a different movement direction

rigid kestrel
mossy pendant
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All tests were done with empty/light backpack engi

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mp7 default practice attatchments

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if anyone can get VERY different results on both branches, feel free to post up

rigid kestrel
mossy pendant
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If the average player can't feel any difference with the main kit you'd use to do this with, I think it's fine

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I'm like 95% sure there's no change from last patch, or if there is I haven't noticed

mossy moth
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Also if you dont mind them thats great, but if those changes actually went through I would have quit the game if I hadnt already

calm fern
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When I read this suggestion all I see is someone or a group of people complaining about the current state of the game. I don't see the following:
What is the problem?
How can we fix the problem?
How does it benefit the current state of the game?
Will the player base agree or disagree?

To me this isn't a suggestion. This thread is coming from someone who is fed up with the current state of the game versus addressing actual issues.

"What issues are we having? What changes do you want and how would it benefit the game itself?"

Those of the questions I ask myself before making a suggestion.

mossy pendant
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I go to beta branch

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It says beta next to game

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I boot up game, it's no diff from current version

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Idk what to tell you man, I did it like 3 times. If you don't believe me you go test it lmao

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Like, I'm cool with being wrong here, but I'm p sure I did it right

mossy pendant
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I understand wanting the game to play the way you want it to so you feel like you can jump back in and have fun, but the overall experience is basically the same as a couple of patches ago tbh. New 3D spotting is a questionable change IMO, but it's not that diff

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I only say this because it's strange to say that the one who's actual testing/playing with the changes is wrong, when you aren't playing the game? I'd imagine you haven't played for a minute, game feels 0% different from before, so that shouldn't be a reason for you to avoid playing currently

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I know I don't have over 200 hours in the game (I have like 150-160), but like at least I'm testing what I'm complaining about. If you have tested it though, feel free to say so and my point is moot

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Also if Oki jumps back in here - so he doesn't have to scroll for the question - are the movement changes in the beta or current branch? Thx

weary snow
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The fix would be too move back towards tactical gameplay

calm fern
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??? I view it to be a Battlefield successor than a Roblox Quake-like game. I find it enjoyable and fun to play.

calm fern
mossy moth
weary snow
mossy pendant
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Your reasons for quitting are valid, just don't spread misinfo is all

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Complaining is allowed 👍

calm fern
# weary snow That's long dead, every update we move further from being a tactical shooter

Here's the thing. You have a different vision than other people. What if the developers don't want that vision? They can't please everyone on the planet. There is someone always whining and throwing a hissy fit because the game doesn't match up to their expectations. I have seen my favourite video games such as Half-Life for example review bombed becuase some cry baby isn't happy and doesn't match to their expectations.

How is it long dead? You are not involved of the development processs to even make that accusation. Perhaps if you asked the developers "is the hardcore mode being worked on" I am sure they would happily provide you an answer.

weary snow
mossy pendant
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This game really isn't anywhere near quake, I know oki said that but it's just hyperbole

rigid kestrel
mossy pendant
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Or if they are, they're so minimal it doesn't matter

calm fern
weary snow
calm fern
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I bought the game back when it first came out. I didn't join this Discord community until like 4 days ago. You can't blame me for NOT thinking it is a milsim tactical shooter advertised to the public as if it was similar to that of Arma III

mossy moth
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This post was more in response to planned changes as well.

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ttk changes specifically

barren cosmos
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I changed later on

mossy pendant
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Ah, so there were changes, thx Oki

outer kindle
mossy pendant
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Well, I certainly didn't notice any real changes to the movement when testing it out on both current branches, so I don't think it's a problem.

@mossy moth Seems the changes were changed after you tested them, so that's why we're having diff results.
@outer kindle I tried lmao

I think to slow the game down healing will REALLY need to be taken back to the drawing board. Like really take a look at how its roots seep into every part of gameplay and speeds things up currently. But we'll see how it goes.

outer kindle
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I mean Oki himself said hes going to try and adjust the movement to where you cant do a crazy fast 180 turn

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like hes just adjusting it not really drastically changing the "core" part of the movement

mossy pendant
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I think the changes are already in the branch? I thought that's what was implied here. TBH, I don't mind either or. I'd kind of prefer if we could go a bit slower in this game. I think lowering bullet velocities would actually be a better start than messing with TTK simply because it's SO easy to hit people at a distance with every gun basically.

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Like compare it to BF4 or something similar and it's night and day.

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If the gun velocities want to be as high as they are, the map design needs to be much more careful, stuff needs to be slowed, 3D spotting should NOT be there, etc

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I think invasion is the perfect area to see the current consequences of everything how it currently is.

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But, then again, I'm not the game designer here. I just like to play and complain lmao

outer kindle
# weary snow

So I can where hes coming from when he brought up "quake with roblox graphics" cause theres actually a few roblox games out there that has that type of movement. And although this game has those type of blocky minecrafti roblox graphics still doesn't mean it cant have systems in place to keep the tone at a decently realistic military FPS game level.

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||didn't mean to ping btw forgot to turn it off sorry zeo||

outer kindle
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invasion has been a really good place so far to see how many of Oki's updates play out

mossy pendant
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Art style != gameplay for sure. Idk why people think a cutesy game can't be scary, or a pixel game can't be emotional/realistic, or a game with simplier graphics can't strive for some form of mechanical realism. Just look at dwarf fortress. That game was ascii art for YEARS and is proof of how complex a game can get if they only worry about mechanics and not graphics

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Invasion has been a fantastic place to see how the updates play out on large scale battles for sure. I think in conquest all the changes are mostly moot.

calm fern
mossy pendant
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The game plays fantasticly when they specifically focus on letting all the players approach maps however they want. Frontline and invasion with 127s are the WORST for showing off the mechanics of the game imo. The game is at its strongest when fights are spread out

#

You don't get beamed from everywhere when there's enough distance and mappage to cover you

#

We defo need maps that are more mountainous, just more terrain cover in general for modes like invasion

outer kindle
#

I honestly don't think hes going to change the maps/modes where theres "spread out" per say battles until Milsim mode comes out

mossy pendant
#

Milsim mode ain't coming anytime soon man. Like 300% I doubt it.

#

Oki really has to make an official statement on that mode sometime soon before it boils over

#

well, preferably the entire dev team

#

It's not like Oki is the only guy making the game

#

I know he's lead dev, but it shouldn't be all on him (the hate mob that'll come)

calm fern
#

There has to be a clear distinction of milsim mode and regular mode. For example, I want the Squad-inspired magazine system to be removed and have that in the milsim mode. It would add a contrast between the two gamemodes. That is one way to make them uniquely different.

mossy pendant
#

Nah man, I like the mix

#

I love having the tactical and non-tactical reloads, I love having those choices mid combat

calm fern
mossy pendant
#

lmao nah

#

I think he hired a guy to do skins, but he's the solo dev

calm fern
#

What?!

#

What the hell did he do with all of that money?!

blissful sapphire
#

hookers and cocaine

mossy pendant
#

TBH, he can do what he wants with the money

#

Game devs have 0 obligation to infinitely develop a game

calm fern
#

I understand but if this was serious I would've hired more people similar to how Valve made Half-Life and Steam.

mossy pendant
#

Yee, apparently the code is spaghetti, so it'd be too hard to train someone on it

calm fern
#

It's not impossible though

#

Just have to find the right people. Like Gabe Newell hired a McDonald's manager to work on Half-Life hehe

weary snow
#

Every dev has at some point in their career had to work on code that is a tangled mess. It's part of the job

#

I'd volunteer but I have a strict no games development policy

mossy pendant
mossy moth
#

He said that the code is "fragile" and that it's documented without a team in mind. So it would be extremely time expensive to onboard new people.

weary snow
mossy moth
#

Exactly what I said

weary snow
#

So he needs to do it sooner rather than later unless he thinks the game doesn't have enough longevity to merit hiring a second dev

hard lintel
#

so we have resorted to just saying "fuck it, this game can survive on three devs, let's all attempt to justify that"

#

yea makes sense

gleaming storm
#

wow. I mean, I'm all for open criticism - but if you people are this passionate about disagreeing with the dev's decisions, why not just create your own game?

weary snow
calm echo
#

Enlisted, Arma III two other games that apart from the base game allow you to create your own experience

tardy raptor
sonic harness
weary snow
sonic harness
#

Even just adding one guy to their team would probably help them breathe a lot

#

Fresh ideas too

tardy raptor
#

That's really really easy to say when it's not your money haha

weary snow
#

Shit that money could pay what my company bills my daily dev rate as for 52 years

sonic harness
#

The fact that getting a new dev early on is an investment has nothing to do with whether they can afford it or not

#

The concept remains. You have less stuff to show them early than later

weary snow
tardy raptor
#

He doesn't owe you anything haha you already bought the game and enjoy it

weary snow
#

In the same what that when you buy GTA5, rockstar spend some of the sales mobey on paying developers to write patches and updates

weary snow
tardy raptor
#

And @sonic harness i didn't say anything about what you said being wrong that's just a different point

weary snow
#

Or he could just tell the players to go fuck themselves and sit and a smaugian vault banging hookers and doing coke

tardy raptor
weary snow
#

But shit what do i know i've only been a professional coder for 20 years

sonic harness
#

I think they could use someone in charge of balancing things and who has experience in it. New ideas to the table basically

#

In terms of other things they push out patches pretty fast

tardy raptor
#

Being a coder isn't really relevant to the situation of basically winning the lottery haha

weary snow
tardy raptor
#

I wouldn't spend that money on a game I've been doing as a hobby for years if I suddenly got so much money

mossy moth
#

If he wants the game to grow at all, the fact of the matter is that he will have to hire devs eventually.

sonic harness
#

I work on stuff too and I'm a fucking machine. Except what happens when you do that is you do burnt out eventually

weary snow
sonic harness
#

Exactly trollDespair

weary snow
#

At least if it's just a job. when you're done for the day you get to take a break

#

i've seen burnout on games dev before. Several Gmod servers burnt their devs out and Planetside 2 recently lost its lead Dev because of burnout

sonic harness
#

Still though only thing im serious about is fresh ideas would do the game some good. Or at least someone to challenge the current ones

weary snow
#

Oh yeah

#

If oki sees a future for the game he needs to spend money and get another dev. If he doesn't then no need and the game will just die

tardy raptor
#

I'm pretty sure he does it as a hobby, he wasn't making money off it for like 7 years I think

weary snow
#

probably along with his sanity

weary snow
sonic harness
#

He doesnt need to. I dont want to make assumptions on whether hes competent or not about this to know for himself. I dont know the guy. But it's definitely worthwhile if he can afford it.

weary snow
#

I assume he's competent he's churned out a solid game but the only easy time to get a new developer is when you have no work and don't need one. as that's not an option at some point he's just going to have to bite the bullet and get one and it's easier to do sooner rather than later

#

Or just let the game die

tardy raptor
#

I'd put almost all of it in a savings account or some shit

weary snow
#

Or they keep it in the business to avoid income tax

#

As the income tax on that kind of income would be staggering

#

Assuming oki is a US resident

sonic harness
#

Pretty sure they are EU

weary snow
grand forum
weary snow
#

Although at least he'll be able to become a tax exile before cashing out. Uncle Sam considers you liable for tax even if you're a us citizen who doesn't live in the us

grand forum
#

I think the changes are run on the beta servers, not the beta version of the game per se

#

@mossy pendant (forgot to enable ping on the response lol lmao)

hard lintel
#

literally every time

mossy pendant
hard lintel
#

actually just so lazy

grand forum
hard lintel
terse egret
tardy raptor
brazen bear
#

community servers set to 127 are currently experiencing crashing issues that makes them completely unreliable

terse egret
tardy raptor
hard lintel
tardy raptor
hard lintel
#

everybody laugh at him

tardy raptor
#

"BattleBit Remastered is a low-poly, massive multiplayer FPS, supporting 254 players per server. Battle on a near-fully destructible map with various vehicles!"

#

That's what we bought

nova fog
#

The game needs fundamental gameplay changes, so far each one has been for the best and the game is far, far more playable now than it was 2 months ago.

Keep making large changes!

fallen pond
tardy raptor
#

You mean youtube creators? Because the devs have never called the game a battlefield killer lol

#

If they did I need you to link me that because that's an insane thing for a game dev to advertise their own game as

nova fog
#

Battlefield killer was what IGN and other news sites were calling it, and they weren't wrong

#

I do think it went into open beta a little early, it would have been better if it just went into open beta with the game changes now, but on the reverse hand would the game changes have been made if it wasn't in open beta to get the feedback

fallen pond
tardy raptor
#

Nah youtube creators have nothing to do with the devs hahaha them calling the game a battlefield killer is not the devs advertising the game as a battlefield killers thats crazy

fallen pond
tardy raptor
#

You're the one who thinks you're owed something not me haha what exactly am I coping about?

fallen pond
#

No please continue doing what you are currently. We need more yes men for feedback.

tardy raptor
#

What are you even talking about? What does that mean

mossy moth
#

Kata is a diagnosed schizophrenic, I wouldnt put too much weight into what they say

fallen pond
#

what he said ☝️

tardy raptor
#

Ok haha

sonic harness
#

Was a reality check

#

Battlefield 4 still has a decent players for a reason. There's a demand and I think Battlebit delivered at one of the best time it could have

fallow crag
weary snow
#

At least according to what i read

#

although i've seen some articles that say it's just 30%

fallow crag
#

oh they changed it

#

"Recently, Steam changed its fee policy. It takes 30% only from the first $10 million in sales. For all sales between $10 million and $50 million, the split goes to 25%. For every sale after the initial $50 million, Steam takes just a 20% cut."

weary snow
#

Except my article didn't methin anything over $10 mil

#

That puts their total amount at around $16 million then

left mountain
#

It's in early access and the Devs are present and engaged. They should be trying new things and trying to figure out where battlebit should be in 5 years.

radiant crow
#

golf simulator dlc when

weary snow
left mountain
weary snow
#

But specifically the need for more than 1 dev has been discussed further up this thread

left mountain
weary snow
#

Cool, You should probably explain that to all the other people on the discord then

#

Because you're literally the only person who cares about that

mossy moth
weary snow
#

Yeah thinking about the future of the game in 5 years has little to do with not changing core gameplay elements

#

And I feel 5 years is optimistic. at current rates (excluding the massive drop in players after the initial peak of 87,000 players a day in july) the game loses on average 3k players a month

#

Now i don't see those losses being consistent. I feel they will taper off somewhat but even so i think 5 years is optimistic

ember viper
weary snow
#

Yeah which is why i think planning for 5 years is optimistic

hard lintel
weary snow
hard lintel
ember viper
#

I've played my monies worth and had fun with my friends while they enjoyed it, but at this rate there is more things coming out that will accommodate our needs and will be easier to shill parts of our community into, It'll be interesting to see what battle bit looks like in just a years time; with plenty of feature changes. 432516300565118987

calm echo
#

The good thing is that delta force is coming... something is something

fervent stratus
#

In fact, many of my friends around me play for a while, realize the game is unbalanced, and either don't play until an update fixes it, or they play other games.　The most common unbalanced stories I hear are: sniper rifles are too strong, or only some SMG/ARs are too strong, vehicles are incredibly fragile and weak, MAP is bad, ammo counts for weapons are wrong, weapons are incorrectly identified (AK15 is somehow an AR to battle rifle, etc), each soldier categories are unbalanced, especially the medic who is now the perfect soldier is terrible, etc.

ember viper
# fervent stratus In fact, many of my friends around me play for a while, realize the game is unba...

This could all be done by community server owners but you put shit in you get shit out with the API; and players don't really want to talk to us outside of the game so when they tell us ideas and we relay that to our communities and those ideas aren't further expanded on so it goes no-where, then there's limits to what we can do with the api and be a official progression server.. have people gain levels and make their number go up like little junkies. . .lol

#

All little inner circles

weary snow
ember viper
#

I can't, it's by design to stimulate.

weary snow
#

I mean i get why they do it. They don't want people to go to a server that gives you int32.MaxValue xp points just for spawning, but it also can mean that playing non official community servers feels like you're achieving less

ember viper
#

I agree with limits, but we can't even adjust to balance the matches or classes.. or even decide a location that would be best suited to our population; straying too far from the idea of battle bit when it doesn't even know what it wants to be sounds kind of silly to me.

#

I want limits I can place on vehicles, I'd like to turn old_oildunes into a heli map instead of tanks sometimes so we can have heli battles..

weary snow
#

Yeah that does seem a little strict

#

Shit i'd run a server with no bullet trails, or maybe all bullet trails

ember viper
#

Yall wonder what happening with the Voxel gamemode? Squat, because we hit the limit of what we can do with the api and remain a official prog server

#

We want to balance it make it work; fix it.. give blocks more health so they are not just erased in split seconds.

weary snow
#

They should just make all community servers official, it's not like anyone cares about your cool prestige camo. If you really want to use a modded server to give you all XP, then you're really just cheating yourself

ember viper
#

I think the global leaderboards and stuff was the reason for all it to be squeaky clean but how progression works is just based on time played really.

safe basin
#

if you think 80% of the player base wouldn't join that kind of server the second it goes live, you're lying to yourself

mossy pendant
#

I mean modded servers can already just unlock everything for you, so progression doesn't actually matter on them so I think it's ok for progression to matter on other servers but not those

#

There's a diff between meaningless and "at least a little bit of time/effort"

jovial nebula
#

This is definitely not okay at all

ember viper
#

What even if that that placement dur

safe basin
jovial nebula
safe basin
#

having the ability to break line of sight would help instead of just a full length time

ember viper
safe basin
#

I'm used to BF so its hardly anything new, in fact its more forgiving to avoid spots.

sonic harness
mossy pendant
#

A lot of people like to think that killing needs to be equal among all the classes

#

But that's not the right train of thought to have tbh

#

What needs to be equal is the amount of fun you have playing each class

#

And the fun you have playing against the other classes

#

Snipers should be having fun shooting at people, people should be having some fun getting sniped at. Support should be having fun building, laying down suppressing fire, explosives, and ammo. People should enjoy each class for its own strengths and naturally gravitate towards one imo

#

I liked SL for example because it was kind of like assault, but with more drip and access to a few more guns at the time. I also happened to be party leader all the time, so I had to direct my guys where to go, so it helped when they could recognize me at a glance

#

SL mechanically was dogwater, but fun wise was still great for me.

#

Gotta reach that overlap. Not just "every gun needs to kill as good as the other guns". Balance is important, but balancing fun is more important. Classes can be made more fun in more ways than having better guns imo

#

Tldr: give support the ability to burst through walls as god intended

flat rune