I Propose a Tank Rework

[quiet flume]

• Increase ammo capacity for both shell types
  Tanks having to go back all the way to spawn to refill their shells means they can either spend half their time in transit or camp in/near spawn. Tanks would be much more incentivised to travel into the field if they didn’t have to make that trek back again so often.

• Improve tank durability to infantry weapons
  A player with C4 can destroy a tank within two seconds of getting close to it. The game’s maps are littered with cover everywhere, this restricts tanks to a few select spots or spawn camping if they don’t want to run the high risk of someone sneaking up on them. Players seem to view tanks as more a source of kills/points as a genuine threat right now. Even just improving durability to C4 would be great as engineers would become the primary threat.

• Reduce tank durability against other tanks
  Perhaps even to APCs. I don’t think tanks need a flat buff but their main threat being other tanks will lead to a scenario where it is less practical to camp far away and in the open (As that won’t protect you from AP shells), and it’s just more realistic since tanks take way too many shots to kill each other, especially on front armour.

• Prevent tanks from firing from the safe zone
  Speaks for itself?

• Convert tank smoke to a deployed smokescreen
  The current implementation of smoke is pretty much useless. Just a small sphere around the current position that blocks the tank’s own sight if it wishes to use it, making it useless against infantry. I think if tanks deployed more of a smoke screen that covered a wider area but not the tank itself, it could be a good tool to block longer range sightlines temporarily. It should also block pings from spotting.

• Stabilise the secondary turret on the tank
  Right now in the situations where it’s needed most it’s made basically useless with how sensitive it is to movement. It should also have more ammo, like the main cannon.

• Slow down HE shell reload a bit
  I don’t think tanks need a firepower buff against infantry especially with the secondary turret being more practical. So to keep things fair, I think it’s justified to do this.

• add an audible sound for C4 latching onto vehicles
  Simply put you don’t know you’ve got C4 on you until it explodes.

TLDR these changes aim to:

• disincentivise spawn camping
• make tank deaths less sudden and unexpected
• make tanks more threatened by other tanks

[vocal bison]

AP and HE reload speeds should definitely be switched around to make the tank an effective vehicle hunter.

C4 needs to be addressed directly with a more general rework IMO, not point tweaks to durability.

[quiet flume]

I feel like AP is fine in reload time as I feel each shell should have a lot of… weight, to it. It should just be more powerful

[vocal bison]

Unless you make it instakill, engagements beyond 100m with such long reload times give vehicles plenty of time to just get away.

[quiet flume]

Yeah that’s an issue

Not really sure what to do about that other than just encouraging closer range playstyles

While unrealistic it could make sense to just lower projectile velocities across the board?

[vocal bison]

That's an unneeded buff to helicopters. And if you want to bring vehicle combat closer together, then half of the time you're just better off jumping out with a tandem.

Currently if you're in close combat, it's very dangerous to switch to AP because HE still deals some damage while being faster AND it can deal with nearby infantry much more effectively.

The only way AP will be worth using is if it does insanely high damage OR if it can be switched to quickly and efficiently such that AP shots can be woven in between HE shots during close combat.

Given that high damage can lead to more frustrating insta-deaths, this is why I argue for the RoF buff.

[quiet flume]

I suppose, though I’ve never seen tanks as a big threat to them to begin with

[vocal bison]

They are not. But this would make them even worse at that.

[quiet flume]

But I would want AP to do much more damage than it does now

[vocal bison]

It definitely should, it's currently ridiculously low.

But I think AP should really reward precision.

So I'm thinking that e.g. hitting the front armor of a tank should keep the very low 10% damage but the hitting the turret would be something like 30%

[quiet flume]

Hmm. I’m pretty neutral towards that. I think I’d support it if the game informs you of it though

Otherwise a lot of people won’t know where to shoot to deal damage

[vocal bison]

Short of a tutorial/more informative in-game accessible info resources, I think a quick way would be to make a more specific hit text

E.g. "Enemy vehicle hit +10" vs "Enemy vehicle critical hit +30"

[quiet flume]

Would be ok

I am a fan of games having more documentation in them myself

[vocal bison]

I agree that's sorely lacking

Would be nice e.g. in the Soldier page when you click on the different vehicles types to get an info page with HP, armor type, weapon damage, etc.

[quiet flume]

Not many games seem to have enough info accessible in them that you could know most of the specific mechanics without a lot of experimentation or looking online. But this game does a good job at showing weapon stats at least

[glossy creek]

the c4 need to be replaced with breaching charges IMO

[obsidian pike]

Tanks should be TANKS
As a soldier running around the battlefield you should be scared shitless when you see a tank.

That's hardly the case, instead you solo the damn thing with c4s or camp and fire HEAT rpgs through a window.

Tanks should be FEARED. but I'm more scared of snipers 18km away than the tank 3m away because I'll just solo it with c4.

🔹️C4 should be MASSIVELY nerfed for tanks, it should take at least 2 or even 3 people using all their C4 to destroy a tank. C4 ISNT THE TOOL FOR THE JOB.

🔸️HEAT RPGS should also be nerf towards tanks, what's the point of tandem rockets if HEAT does the job and you don't have to deal with ludicrous drop. Tanks should be a significant threat that requires specialised tools to take them down effectively..... like an engineer with a tandem RPG. HEAT rockets should still pose a bit of a threat especially if they're attacking your rear.

🔹️Replace C4's tank killing potential and instead add a C4 Shaped Charge and limit it to the enginer class. Maybe reduce the throw distance, or even remove it entirely requiring you to plant it directly on the tank yourself. It just makes sense, they're designed to withstand explosives its literally a TANK for crying out loud. Shaped charges focus this force into a small area yadda yadda yadda. Limiting it to Engis will mean you won't have the entirety of China swarming ur tank trying to C4 u

🔸️An outlandish suggestion but.... add reactive armour to tanks. They seem to have it already on their models, but what I mean is allow it to be blown up, and then have the spot without any reactive armour be more susceptible to damage (like the rear is) rewarding players who have good rpg aim and just a higher skill ceiling for taking down tanks. Also allow them to replaced at base or via repair tool.

summary / tl;dr
• Tanks are TANKS, make them feel like that and not a tin coffin
• Engineers should be the reason why you die in a tank 9 times out of 10 (deaths to infantry)
• HEAT shouldn't replace the job of the tandem rpgs.
• Reactive armour?

[shut herald]

No need to nerf HE, its alredy quite underwhelming. You better off with coax unless there is 3+ guys in one place.

Shooting from spawn can go. If, and ONLY IF, players will not be able to camp enemy spawn and it exit.
Rn you can just wait for vehicle on border and crub stomp them, taking away ability to defend itself would only make this more obnoxious.

[shut herald]

Engineering shouldn't be responsible for 90% of your deaths lol. That would make him too strong still.
We have 127v127 players on a map. That's a fucking lot.
50% of your deaths should be from enemy vehicles, because only they are rare enough to make it fair.
Giving inf, which death costs fucking nothing, and which can multiply like rats in sewers, such ability will not change current state of engineers dunking on vehicles

[obsidian pike]

I mean deaths by soilders

if I get solo'd by another fucking medic I'll scream. Engi should be ur only real threat in a tank not some dweeb with a medkit and c4

[shut herald]

That's true, but engeneers shouldn't be the biggest threat to a vehicle

Other vehicles should. So engineer, especially solo, still shouldn't solo you. Few engineers should fuck you up, because teamwork.

[obsidian pike]

engi SHOULD dunk on a vehicle that's literally half their role, take down or repair vehicles, it should be possible for engis to solo a tank with what they have, it just shouldn't be as easy as it is rn

[shut herald]

And because teamwork doesn't exists in BBR, you will die mostly to vehicles, and that's fair.
If inf wants to punch up, they should team up

[shut herald]

No, it shouldn't be possible to solo a tank, even as a engineer. Why? Because there's like 30 of them. Now every one can solo a tank. We are back to square one.

2-3 guys tho, working together is different talk

This is teamwork oriented game, at least should be. So it cannot incentivse or reward playing solo.

[obsidian pike]

No no, they should have the ability to solo a tank. 3 or 4 or 5 (idk) tandem rockets in the same spot, or rear should finish a tank

it's just, as an engineer are you realistically gunna fire off all those shots without getting fucking flattened? probably not

they should be able to have the ability to solo a tank purely because this isn't a teamwork game

yes it can be, and it's so much fun when it is, but for the majority of players it's a cod with bigass maps

and tbh at it's core the game should stay like that

[shut herald]

Incentivising solo paying brought us to where we are now. With aboundance of C4 and soloing vehicles. Devs shouldn't go this way again.

[shut herald]

5 tandems, my god. That's like 2 tanks

[obsidian pike]

that's why I'm here giving suggestions and not balancing the game

at the end of the day I just wanna feel BEEFY in a tank, but instead I feel like more of a sitting duck inside of one than out of it

[shut herald]

Yes, and I feel like that too. Why that is? Because everyone can solo a tank. That's the problem.

It may work in BF2042 with 32v32 players, but we have 4x more players on simmilary sized map

[obsidian pike]

Soloing a tank should be possible, as an engi, it should be a fucking hard thing to do requiring a whole lotta explosives and positioning. At the end of the day it should be if u get soloed in a tank it should be ur own damn fault for letting the dude fire however many rpgs or charges at you

that should always remain, if engi cannot solo tanks unless they work together with other engis then tanks will simply be indestructible

I'm saying they should be able to, not that they should commonly do it as easily as its done now

[split brook]

Somebody mentioned rewarding good aim with ap shells. The turret is typically more armored than the hull, with only the upper front plate of the hull having equivalent armor. Giving damage multipliers to shots to the side or lower plate of a tank would be good though.

[north bobcat]

i believe if were making tanks have more ammo and more health they need to be punished more for shooting over longer ranges because these changes otherwise would make the whole tank snipping even worse

[shut herald]

It's funny to see @ Old Chum disagreeing again. Does he even agree with anything, or is he just a contrarian?

[shut herald]

Tanks snipe only because:

1. Maps have lines of sight long as fuck
2. They can't do anything else without being deleted.
   So removing one or even two of those reasons solve this problem.

And they are tanks, they are supposed to snipe anyways. That's how they play in Squad or Arma

[north bobcat]

the difference is squad and arma have things that can easily destroy tanks sitting in one spot not moving while this game really does

[north bobcat]

and they are suggesting numbe 2 so if they do tanks should have a harder time snipping so they aren't even harder to deal with compared to snipping tanks rn

[shut herald]

We also have those you know...

You can shoot at them

They are not invicible...

[shut herald]

I disagree, this game wants to be tactical, so tanks should retain thier long range ability, but shouldn't be crumb stomped by everyone

They shouldn't be pushing in to the city

[north bobcat]

then they should stay as is because giving extra health wouldn't be needed for snipping

like i said its hard enough to deal with tanks doing it now anyway

[north bobcat]

no we really do not

we don't have mortars to punish tanks sitting in one place for long

tandem doesn't shoot far enough to hit tanks 600m away

and tanks do shit against other tanks

there is no way to properly counter tank snipers rn

[shut herald]

Just come closer

[shut herald]

Drone? Heat?

[north bobcat]

and if they are in there spawn zone on a hill so if you get closer you cant even see them

[shut herald]

Man, you can't just ignore 50% of your tools

[shut herald]

That's not really possible

Exept on Sandy

Most maps avoids having hills in spawn zones

Tho I didn't played new dusty much

[north bobcat]

sandy, wine, old dust but they did change it and i haven't played it that much

and on cqb maps tanks are useless so I'm kinda leaving those out of this agreement

valley and while they aren't in there spawns they are still super far and out of the way normally

and when you do kill the tank its a few minutes and they are doing it again

so unless you really want to bully a tank they are really annoying to deal with

tbh tanks wouldn't be in this annoying and a un fun to face if they were buffed more for close combat instead of just sitting away from everything and not moving until they need ammo

and APC are even worse in my opinion because they go sit in the middle of the ocean so you cant even get closer to them to deal with them

they both need close range combat buffs and long range nerfs

because just giving them more ammo and armor is going to make people more angry about them

[shut herald]

Sandy has this problem, totally agree. Wine tho, I don't see that. You can camp on A point or E point, but you are on point so yeah, doesn't count, that's a cap point.
Old dusty is more dead that it ever was

[shut herald]

Not in spawn tho. So you can even c4 it.

[shut herald]

I literally never seen someone doing it, and getting any kills

Any proof of that

This tactic even sounds stupid, especially when you can't do shit above 400m with APC

[north bobcat]

there is a big hill on one side of the map that gives really good sight like of the enemy side of the map

unless they changed it in a updated i haven't played the map since the update of it

[vocal bison]

C4 drone, easiest kill ever

They move extremely slow and have no elevation to shoot it

Even if the driver jumps out they can't shoot in the water

[north bobcat]

you know what i haven't thought of that now i gotta test it

[north bobcat]

if someone is on the secondary gun i think they may be able to

[north bobcat]

oh wait your talking about the APC

XD

[vocal bison]

yeah if the tank is sitting in the water it's got bigger problems than c4

[vocal bison]

just wait for them to be distracted engaging something tho

you can fly out of bounds and into safe zones without restriction so it's easy to come from unexpected angles

works best if you have a buddy to detonate on command tho

[north bobcat]

ya still seems really out of the way and not on purpose

I'd still want a closer ranged focus for tanks and ACPs instead of how they are now

[vocal bison]

I agree

[north bobcat]

and when milsim is made they can have the more proper long range sniper play because then you should actually have people working together to deal with them and also they said they would probably have moter/air strikes in that mode because friendly fire will be on

[vocal bison]

It's never going to happen without ways to resupply in the field

So that's one thing that needs looking at

[north bobcat]

oh ya i think they should get ammo in captured zones and not just home base

[vocal bison]

And also, squad spawning must be removed

There's no point in trying to make a slow vehicle meant for helping pushes work when "pushes" don't exist in the first place

it's just a bunch of squads running around all over the map doing mitosis

[north bobcat]

oh I've stopped complaining about how spawning works because they ain't gonna change it with the more casual focus the game has rn

[vocal bison]

People who claim that being able to instantly teleport around the map and appearing in the middle of an RPG landing at your feet is in the best interest of casuals are talking out of their ass

It's the tryhards who exploit such a spawn system to its maximum extent and the casuals who end up being farmed because they have no clue what's a good place to appear at

Then again that's usually the same people defending crackhead movement because "casual game"

[obsidian pike]

what if.... you go to the tank and deal with it 🤯

[obsidian pike]

I disagree purely because that's the most fun way to play tank, pushing and taking over objs, encouraging that behaviour while also not making them op af is the challenge

though they should be kinda a little op... its a tank after all

[shut herald]

I see IFV better suited to that role but ok. Anyways, any urbinesed area in BBR is unnaturaly cramped and narrow, with roads as wide as single car is. Unless tank would be literally invincible I would not want to fight in those area.

[vocal bison]

It went really well for the Russians in Chechenya lul

but I think adding an intermediate "disabled" state would be the best way to make urban environments not be an instant death sentence while also not making the tank indestructible

this would in fact make infantry support more relevant since even if someone gets past and C4s you, if your infantry manages to gain the upper hand, you can save the vehicle

[shut herald]

Oh god please no. It MAY work in BF4 or Squad, but it would be obnoxious as fuck, and game breakign total nerf to vehicles

It won't work with such amount of players, aboundance of AT tools and C4, and design of maps we have right now.

If that was added, you can bet that being disabled would be a death sentence, and vehicle would be destroyed anyways

BBR isn't a game designed with such mechanic in mind. It's not even designed with vehicles in mind, even though they are in the game