MP7 & UMP changes

[celest bridge]

Based on how MP7 and UMP perform and how easy they're to handle, I do think they need a slight nerf and those 2 didn't get changed a lot with the SMG nerf patch.

I put their screenshot to have the datas while doing this suggestion.
The explanation behind that suggestion are : those weapons have big advantages, can be played on situations where you can make the more kills (CQC) while having the best advantages over all the other weapons.

• They've the best TTK in-game with FAL, Groza and Skorpion : MP7 0.189, UMP 0.185, FAL 0.185, Groza 0.185 Skorpion Evo 0.150, but they've other things making them really strong
• Both have pretty good recoil for under 100m fight which is normal for SMG but put them already in the good weapons
• Both have +10% base MS and low ADS which are with TTK and recoil the 2 best others stats to kill feed easily
• UMP is 3sk and you've 25mag when MP7 is 4sk but has 30mag giving you possibilities to kill a squad added to other stats

In BBR you're actually way more mobile than on other FPS, those two weapons give you even more mobility to close the gap and keeping enemies under 100m is not that hard with a little bit of map knowledge and running.

While rushing people is already one of the best way to kill them fast by surprise those two have 2 attachments and because of their base stats you can often pick suppressors making them just insanely good and also boosty their velocity. And that's also why people doing big clips play them.

For the argument of the medium-long range fight : I agree that you cannot actually deal with AR-DMR (Ump still can) at 100m+ but under it and if you play for it as you should (some maps are even design for CQC) they're just performing too well, SPECIALLY with G18 in secondary and C4, thanks to that you've barely NO down time, meaning no time where you can't deal damage.

Possible solutions : Nerf their magazine by 5 bullets, reduce their ROF (reducing dmg change too much ttk) to have 0.200~ not less because they've already the stats for CQC (ttk, ads, ms, reload, potential suppressor), reducing their movement speed to 1.05 instead of 1.10.

Thanks to that I do think we'll be able too see much more other SMG/PDW/AR played in CQC.

[coarse sail]

Tbh I agree, rn other SMGs and PDWs are kinda useless and not really worth using while MP7 and UMP45 are just supperior, proposed changes would make other SMGs/PDWs used more, while MP7 and UMP45 would still be great, not so sure about the magazine nerf tho, especially with ump

[celest bridge]

absolutely

[tame dock]

I was about to ask about the pp-2000 but they reworked it into pdw I see - what classes can use those and how do those compare to these weapons, out of curiousity?

I used to use that on medic and it felt like a fairly strong contender between good mag, movespeed, low recoil, not needing to farm attachments, etc

[celest bridge]

Medic can use UMP45, Assault both, Engi only MP7

PP2k is 0.240 ttk atm

[low sky]

pp2k has a noticably worse TTK but isnt in need of any changes

[celest bridge]

Yeah I think it's fine too*

[grim pumice]

I always thought SMG accuracy was a bit high compared to other weapons

I get velocity is low but it's not the only way you limit range

[tame dock]

Yeah, accuracy in general is very high on most guns it feels like

[grim pumice]

I don't think I've played a single gun that is inaccurate

And I've tried a lot of them

Only thing that made them inaccurate was horizontal recoil

[tame dock]

Like it doesn't feel like the stat had much impact compared to most games

Yeah, its mostly recoil

[grim pumice]

Which doesn't always feel like a good way to limit range

There's so many levers they can touch but I swear it's almost always the same ones they use

[tame dock]

like it feels like (and this is a bit of an exaggeration... I hope.) 50 accuracy is just like a ~1-2 degree cone

And ifk if i've seen anything below about 50

If even that

[grim pumice]

I necro'd this old post https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1171719103455711232 because I thought it was relevant if anyone wants to add their thoughts.

[tame dock]

I'll take a look

[celest bridge]

so it'd mean kinda revert the dropoff nerf
60 accuracy is kinda bad to shoot after 100m so I think it's already the case (and since they got some Hrecoil (low for CQC) it can be hard)

but I'm not into the buff of AR, in BF it was pretty well done and only "Heavy AR" or DMR could do that, 500m is just stupidly long range, Oki doesn't want to buff weapon on longer range because lack of texture, roblox models, etc

[proper sparrow]

I personally think the UMP is shit, I can do everything a UMP and more with the Groza + other weapons

[coarse sail]

yeah, but groza is actually somewhat balanced, it has a drawback in form of way higher reload time compared to UMP

[signal carbon]

Just noting some things I would see happening with this change:

Mag nerf will damage its uptime in cqc

[ivory relic]

Idk about the UMP. It's good if you really know how to use it but maybe MP7 a tad bit

[proper sparrow]

UMP deals 0 damage and has incredibly low firerate. If I'm in a group of enemies I need to shoot at the same target like 10 seconds before they die. Then after 1-2 kills the mag is empty again.

[signal carbon]

Movement speed nerf would make it harder to get closer to enemies if you do chose the route of making it worse at range

[celest bridge]

Just forgot Groza for TTK, but imo UMP is just a "better Groza" for now

[proper sparrow]

I can delete people immediately with a FAL or Groza

[coarse sail]

groza has the same ttk as UMP

[celest bridge]

yeah, but higher ads, higher reload time, less movespeed, -1dmg (have to check breakpoint) and no grip attachment

[signal carbon]

I would keep the lvl 0 guns the best so new players don’t have to compete against better guns by older players

[proper sparrow]

Idk in that case the weapon just feels really shitty to me

[signal carbon]

Ads does not really matter in cqc bc of hipfire

I would increase bloom of the gun

[celest bridge]

P90 is also strong but doesn't have grip like Groza, it's also a way to "nerf it"

[coarse sail]

for me it's either tiny nerf for UMP and MP7 or buff for other PDW/SMGs

last time I saw someone use pp19 was like... 4 months ago?

[signal carbon]

IMO lvl 0 guns should be the best

[proper sparrow]

MP7 is valid but I really don't feel like the UMP should be nerfed further, idk.

[signal carbon]

Nerf MP7 hs damage back to the original one

[celest bridge]

I don't have the data but I think it maybe in the most played for KD, just checked Robocat stream as en example, but there's plenty of big players

[proper sparrow]

Maybe it's psychological, don't know.

[signal carbon]

Steeper drop off or/and drop off starts closer

[celest bridge]

I mean as I showed UMP is just a better groza, the only thing Groza has is the dropoff and 5+ bullets in mag

[coarse sail]

the only drawback of UMP I can think of is 25 bullets mag size which isn't that big of a deal due to very fast reload

[celest bridge]

.

but dropoff is not a point when you're always fighting under 100m

the +5 bullet in mag is something but nothing too impactfull I think

[proper sparrow]

UMP has 600 firerate tho and groza 650

[celest bridge]

same ttk, higher rof also means harder to control

[signal carbon]

Maybe make SMG like guns deal less damage to armor at range in general

[celest bridge]

I really don't think balance should be made around armour

Like at all

[signal carbon]

Idk dude

I would maybe make drop off more extreme or increase the spread of the bullets

[celest bridge]

Don't forget to vote up or down if you want the suggestion seen by Oki

[proper sparrow]

I think you are kind of on the right track because IMO I shouldn't be able to snipe people like you can do with the UMP

with an SMG

imo there's a range issue

[celest bridge]

I think the UMP problem is not at range but in CQC because of the low ttk big mag big movespeed

at 100m the dmg are at 15~

[proper sparrow]

that is more of MP7's domain though

[celest bridge]

you can surelyt finish someone but not fully kill him

[proper sparrow]

that is even more crazy

[signal carbon]

Make drop off end at like 50m or smth

[coarse sail]

ik it's not the topic but armor was mentioned by Okami, the only armor rework I can think of is armor being also applied to legs and arms a.k.a knee and arm pads

[celest bridge]

Most AR kill UMP users at 50m

Check streamers or big players clip with big KD, everything is under 50

[coarse sail]

robocat PTSD

[celest bridge]

That could change things yeah

Moukwa could also gives us englightment since he's a big player

[coarse sail]

he'll whine that you shouldn't touch anything cuz it's perfect the way it is (he's medic run and gunner) (don't get angry moukwa lol)

[celest bridge]

but imo the problem is really not at 50m fights, just at 5-10-20 where you can just kill a whole squad and run super fast to a next squad

[signal carbon]

Rn meta class is assault imo

Assault just counters what u suggest bc of the buffs he gives

[celest bridge]

Yeah, bandage get buffed on everyone, but the aidkit of medics heal very slow (but infinite) and the revive tool is still very annoying to use

[coarse sail]

also medic has unlimited healing source which he can use while running'

[signal carbon]

But for health per second, the bandage now is very close if not greater than medic healing

[coarse sail]

after 6 uses it's gone tho

[signal carbon]

Small ammo kit

And ur not surviving that long if you play really aggro

[coarse sail]

just ban all pro gamers for cheats or create them one big comp server /s

[green gorge]

Mp7 and ump are not op every other smg just got way too nerfed

[celest bridge]

Then if MP7 and UMP got nerfed, people will play others SMG

[green gorge]

All of them feel very shit to use so nerfing them brings nothing but making smg/pdw worse than they currently are. Assault rifles and dmrs are already better than them

[celest bridge]

nah no DMR is better than any SMG because you've to aim head and they've worse ttk

[signal carbon]

i think its fine as is, but very small changes may be in place

[celest bridge]

Show me a clip of DMR guy doing 200/40 kills cleaning full squad at 5m of him

[green gorge]

Also, suggestions are still open tô randoms who think they understand the game

[celest bridge]

you'll have very hard difficulties to do that, because they're not stronger than smg

[green gorge]

[celest bridge]

RoboCat SMG rushers here

💀

[signal carbon]

talk like civil people over here. dont begin to flame people, gets nothing done

[merry shuttle]

they need to bring back the vector+drum

[celest bridge]

[green gorge]

There is one in bb screenshot scoreboards

[celest bridge]

glad you find 1

[green gorge]

Now I want to see yours

[celest bridge]

If there was datas, there'd be 200 SMG scoreboards top1 every 1 hour

[celest bridge]

the ump/mp7? BBR streamers are doing rn, each game, because they're playing the strongest weapon on the game to get the juicy kills

weird they're playing G18 C4 with that

why they're not playing Bolt, DMR, SCAR, etc?

[green gorge]

Robo is an incredible player he can do it in any weapon

[celest bridge]

still would be way harder

[green gorge]

Ive seen him Drop 200+ kills on support

[celest bridge]

Why metaplayer play meta?

ask Moukwa he'll tell you

[green gorge]

And in this discord people act like its weak lol

[celest bridge]

or even ask Robocat he'll tell you

"just easier, I love that"

[celest bridge]

I never said that support is weak, I think the class is under assault and medic, but the weapons are cool, the class is just very slow

so the real word would be "weaker" not weak

why they're playing full auto no recoil G18 and not RSH pure skill headshot? because easier to handle mouse and kill everyone

[green gorge]

Médic atm is just above Recon

[celest bridge]

I mean there's a reason

yeah I think Assault is better rn (or same level if we count that you can infinite heal)

[green gorge]

Clueless

Ive Dropped 200 kills on game with a pp2k should it bê nerfed?

[celest bridge]

since when dropping a lot of kills on a 127x127 fast arcade fps noranked is a thing

you're part of thousands of players, gg

you can drop 200 kills on most auto weapons

weird thing is you're all playing the same weapons (looks like there's a meta.. no?)

[soft pawn]

?

support being under medic is a wild take, dmrs also not being better than any smg is also wild

[celest bridge]

support being better than medic is way a bigger wild take than the reverse

and DMR being better than any smg, then why every big players going for kills are mostly going AK, MP7, UMP, FAL? Why no DMR in the list?

[soft pawn]

because it's for a much sedentary, different playstyle, and yet can still outgun 2 or 3 smgs at close range (the things they are meant to excel at)

also the argument for 'meta' is kinda disingenuous considering most (if not all when unlocked) support players are running exo and rpk rn, why is that?

the idea of a 'meta' not existing is quite literally impossible, nerf something and something else takes its place

vector->ump->mp7->???

buff other things in its' stead, as mentioned prior other smgs were way too underbuffed

i see frequent acr/g36c usage since the update as well, this does not mean it is overtuned, not by a longshot

[celest bridge]

UMP got buffed, the meta changes, MP7 was already S tier with Vector when Vector got kicked in the nuts, I think you didn't play that moment

It's nothing new there

[soft pawn]

i did play and people called mp7 meta pre vector nerf lol

i quite literally have several clips of people talking shit about it on voip

this doesnt change that the idea of meta should be balanced around, well, balance, not hammering every outlier

[celest bridge]

If you balance every weapon on the most meta weapons right now it'll just accelerate the games which is already super fast

[soft pawn]

there's a lack of precedent with similarish ttks for each class and their own pros and cons

[celest bridge]

So you want even better DMR, AR, LMG, LSW, SR?

[soft pawn]

no, all the mp7 really needs is to be moved off of pdw rn

[celest bridge]

Why change every weapon + the whole game when you can just reduce the power of 2-3 weapons that are just straight better than others?

[soft pawn]

one of the biggest dev oversights ive seen in forever

[celest bridge]

the problem is not category, people will just pick assault or medic (the best classes rn)

[soft pawn]

youre misunderstanding, it was moved to pdw which has a higher hs multiplier than its previous, which was 1.2x(?)

[celest bridge]

If you know Cateat and Robocat, he'll tell you that movespeed is one of the strongest stats in the game

that's why support is weaker* (and you can't repair armour)

[soft pawn]

no what's a cateat

[soft pawn]

it's not..

at all

[celest bridge]

you don't know the meta I swear

[soft pawn]

ye not at all

i'm clueless

[celest bridge]

Ask in general who think support is actually better than assault and medic, you'll see it yourself

and also ask for their steam profile, most player with 1k hours on BBR will tell you than support is shit

[green gorge]

Disc opinions

[celest bridge]

that's exactly why it got buffed, I'm telling you, you don't know what is the meta

[soft pawn]

so true, i don't

[green gorge]

Cant believe you base your opinions on the general chat

[celest bridge]

Ask yourself the BBR streamer or the guys sharing their scoreboard, ask Moukwa he's there

[soft pawn]

x=

[soft pawn]

y?

again this whole thread just seems quite disingenuous as you fail to acknowledge armor and weapon selection of support and hyperfixate on guns people who are better than you tend to favor

[celest bridge]

@vale ingot What do you think about that Moukwa

[soft pawn]

when its a single change needed

[cerulean karma]

lmao what

[celest bridge]

with RPK and normal armor it's good but still under medic and assault

[soft pawn]

so... why does everyone run exo then

[green gorge]

[soft pawn]

you still didnt answer

[celest bridge]

autoselect armour on support, and many noobs think armour is "good"

[vale ingot]

its good now, but not good if you are aiming for kill records imo

[cerulean karma]

armor is good as fuck lmao

[vale ingot]

armor system is still ass

[cerulean karma]

remove armor problem solved lets gooo

[celest bridge]

Yeah I was talking for the meta side, it's kinda hard to gather big players so that's why I pinged you

Since they can argue against everything even with logic, I prefer to let you talk

[soft pawn]

wakistan exists

i think i know like 5+ people with pb's on support on that map specifically

again, playstyles and maps are a factor

[inland anchor]

no one even said that support is BY FAR better than medic or assault
just that support isnt SHIT

[cerulean karma]

support is far better than medic or assault for shit players

whereas less armor and more speed is better for good players

whats the issue

[celest bridge]

yeah for beginners

[vale ingot]

this is very true

[soft pawn]

ya you quite literally have to be good to utilise something

[cerulean karma]

omg you actually need skill to play well with less hp? thats crazyyyy

[soft pawn]

it's like saying a mechanically intensive hero in a moba or something is op because good players do really well on it

it's facetious

[inland anchor]

careful, okami gonna check your steam to see if you are friends with any of the people you agree with and call it friends-bias

[cerulean karma]

lmaoo literally that

[celest bridge]

this thread is to talk about ump and mp7 not to troll an other suggestion

[soft pawn]

mp7 on assault is also made significantly more powerful because of assaults specific class perks btw

the reload time was one of its huge weakpoints, which is (other than moving it to pdw) why it being on assault was a huge mistake, it made it from S to SS+

[cerulean karma]

damn this thread is dumber than i thought

[soft pawn]

hence why it was never favored over other guns

[cerulean karma]

lets nerf the only 2 usable smgs after we JUST buffed ars and lmgs

brilliant

[soft pawn]

they also nerfed the scorpion too

(on accident probably)

[vale ingot]

it got nerfed twice (kinda)

[west geyser]

Are you saying mp7 was never favored when medic was meta?

[soft pawn]

even for the stint it was the <<best>> medic had i still saw more umps on medic

favored=/=majority

[upper swift]

90% of the suggestions made are awful

[celest bridge]

50% of the people chatting in suggestions are clowns

Imagine starting it

Truely useless comment

[upper swift]

don't make bad suggestions then

[celest bridge]

Don't speak then

[upper swift]

no

[cerulean karma]

lmao what am i reading

[upper swift]

this is a public forum

[green gorge]

When the suggestions is made based on bbr-eng opinions you should expect it

[celest bridge]

yeah and everyone can make a suggestion

[upper swift]

yeah and I said it's bad

[green gorge]

they shouldnt imo

[celest bridge]

I said the same (but I was kinda trolling, I don't put out % of nowhere like you)

[upper swift]

lmao

smgs have already had multiple nerfs

they don't need more

[wet trout]

I would rather the other SMGs received small buffs (though major for pp19) to make them viable rather than bring these ones down. They’re very good guns at close range but come with their own sacrifices (mainly in dropoff), and I think they’re in a decent place rn.

[upper swift]

yeah I would rather see other smgs get a buff

like the pp2k

[wet trout]

That one needs it least of the others I’d say

[soft pawn]

i want oki to bring back playtest AS Val so you guys can see what OP really is

[green gorge]

I wouldnt say they are good at close range atm assault weapons are very strong and not even going to talk about evo rpk

they are good at flanking people clueless

[wet trout]

In terms of raw output they’re similar, but move speed is valued for meta playstyles and the guns mentioned in the post do do a good job at that.

[west geyser]

I honestly havent noticed the ump or mp7 being used all that much. I usually notice when I get killed by a single gun over and over but right now there is a pretty good diversity

[upper swift]

its only good against unarmored

[soft pawn]

same. quite literally dying to acr, ak74, scorpion and pp2k as much as mp7/ump

[wet trout]

Not really. It is affected by armour to a very average extent

If you want guns that are affected by armour then the mp7 and ump happen to be two great contenders

[upper swift]

pp2k needs a buff

[west geyser]

pp2k is used a decent amount already

[wet trout]

I don’t get why people here always say the PP2K is bad tbh

There isn’t really much bad about it other than SMG falloff

[green gorge]

pp2k and vector got a lot of bullets but not the damage

ump and mp7 got the damage but not many bullets

its a trade in the end

[cerulean karma]

lmaoooo

make em suffer

[wet trout]

PP2k has the best KPM of any SMG by a significant margin, unless you put a drum mag on the vector

[green gorge]

Honestly, from the smgs only the vector and pp19 feel bad to use

[soft pawn]

vector damage dropoff is horrible

that's why

[green gorge]

vector is playable but its suffering

[upper swift]

vector doesn't rlly feel bad to use to me

[soft pawn]

its nice if you are literally sniffing people

[green gorge]

Its bad when you shoot an exo dude with a rpk on his hands

[soft pawn]

but even then a fal would do the same thing

[green gorge]

and he tanks half your shots in the head

While you are running no armor

[wet trout]

Vector isn’t too bad versus armour

[upper swift]

you should jjust always try to shoot people in the legs or arms

[green gorge]

155 m pre nerf was fun though

[wet trout]

It actually gets affected less than average

Moves up in ttk ranking when armour is considered

[green gorge]

I wouldnt place close to the mp7 and ump

but its a fine weapon

I still believe they should move the 10 m dropoff to 20 m

[upper swift]

do some guns actually perform better against armor but then are ass against no armor?

[wet trout]

I don’t know of any that have such a drastic change

[upper swift]

cause if so thats so dumb

[wet trout]

Vector just does relatively a little worse against unarmored

30-31 damage guns fare the best of all against armour

[upper swift]

such a bad system

[wet trout]

Except for 48-49 damage actually, those are even better

[wet trout]

I guess you just need to know how much your gun cares about armour to know how much you need to prioritise legs

[upper swift]

yeah which is dumb

[bitter flame]

"i hate getting shit on by tryhards please take their toys away" type thread #982346598

[wet trout]

Not sure if anyone has thought of an armour system that would get rid of this.

As long as damage breakpoints are important I’m pretty sure not all guns will perform the same against it

[upper swift]

just get rid of armor

[wet trout]

That would reduce the number of breakpoints hugely which is a big issue for balancing
I don’t like that idea as it heavily reduces how much players can customise their playstyle / specialise

[upper swift]

well armor at least needs a rework

[wet trout]

Best idea I’ve seen so far is limb damage modifiers combined with % damage reduction, but I’m not sure if that would actually be more fun or not.

% damage reduction on its own leads to the issues of armour becoming worse (reliability of TTKs)

[upper swift]

it just seems so dumb to have an arcadey game like this but you have to always be aware of how well your gun does against armor and have to shoot at arms/legs instead

[wet trout]

Ridiculous to expect players to do that without even any info on it provided in game, if only there was some kind of ch-

:D

[upper swift]

i just think its dumb in general

[wet trout]

I wish it were not this way but I have no definitively better suggestion.

[untold cipher]

One of the sheets of all time

[untold cipher]

Get rid of durability keep the rest shrimple

[west geyser]

delusional take bud. vector is great

[untold cipher]

Where cc role

[cerulean karma]

lumfao

[untold cipher]

Anyway mp7 mag nerf seriously

[upper swift]

never

[green gorge]

25 mag is way too many bullets

[green gorge]

naaaaah I dont think vector is as bad as pp19 btw I just dont think its a strong weapon Id rank a b tier

[untold cipher]

Its in the not pp19 tier

[potent jasper]

no clue bro

[west geyser]

"support is shit"

this was my first game ever playing support

3.45 kpm, my average kpm is 2.1

[celest bridge]

if you'd have just read a bit more you'd know I was comparing it to assault and medic, also not because a class is weaker that you can't have good kda/kpm, it's a fps and LSW/LMG got buffed

the dent is big

[west geyser]

You are moving the goalposts again. That is a completely different claim than "support is shit"

[celest bridge]

that remembers me those guys bronze in league playing not meta build on normal game and showing me 20/0
cool buddy problem is : it doesn't make sense + no ranked mode

[celest bridge]

You are not reading the others messages you are trying to find mistakes and isolating assumptions, sadly it doesn't work like that

You did the exact same thing on the other thread

Both are still in the S tier

It's a suggestion, I think they're too strong

I explained why, if you can't read, it's fine

[untold cipher]

Bronze 😭

[west geyser]

This man has selective retrograde amnesia. Forgets the point he made as soon as its proven wrong.

[green gorge]

There should really be atleast a X amount of hours to be allowed to make suggestions

[untold cipher]

Tbh mp7 is kinda not funni because its a pdw now

Mag nerf still stupid

[celest bridge]

yep advantages on AR (for example) thanks to fast ads, fast reloading, fast movement speed and very good ttk

would also work for DMR or LMG

I only talk about 50m+ for the UMP (maybe I forced too much with the 100)

no sense, you can play every weapon close range, where you cannot at 500m

there's some bolt close range player there

[untold cipher]

[celest bridge]

you're 4sk at this point ye, but it's still very usable

you still have better movement speed, and ads

to position yourself and to aim before (since some AR have better ttk than ump at 50m)

nah doing mp7 100m is dumb you've like 8dmg or smth like that

I never said it's op for 100m

I precided it CQC, read the thread, I don't even get it why you are talking about midrange fight

it's like saying : dude they're not OP you can't fight with at 200m : ok but that's not my point

nerfing UMP to 0.200 will make them unplayable weak?

yeah man super weak, that's why SMG rushers killing addict are playing UMP MP7 rn

they love to play super bad weapon

it's very famous

weird they don't play PP19

[inland anchor]

they are playing those cuz those are the only two really viable weapons left in the game for rusher gameplay cuz the rest already got nerfed into the ground

[untold cipher]

Weird that pp19 is actually useless

[celest bridge]

I don't think it's busted, it's a very good weapon but not like OP

[untold cipher]

🗿

[inland anchor]

who would hvae thought people play the two smgs that are still relatively good

[celest bridge]

[untold cipher]

Do not even try to argue for the pp19

[celest bridge]

I talked about a very slight nerf, that's all, check the "possible solution" again

[celest bridge]

I said it's bad just above, maybe you didn't get the message

[celest bridge]

.

[untold cipher]

Mag nerf wont stop your ass from getting folded

[celest bridge]

meaning they don't play it because it's way worse than other SMG

[inland anchor]

you want a nerf cuz it is the "current" meta and all the good player use them ( a legit argument of yours)
Obviously we play the only 2 decent smgs left in the game that arent nerfed into the ground

[untold cipher]

Weird implies its good you fuck

😭

[celest bridge]

it's the gameplay giving the more kills atm

[west geyser]

His point is that meta players dont use the pp19 because it is bad, so if mp7 and ump are so bad, why are they using them?

[celest bridge]

In average on many games I'm pretty sure you'll never be able to kpm like a UMP MP7 right now as with a DMR, LMG, some AR (not all obviously)

I just think it's too easy that's all, I played with it, and also was thinking it's too easy

[inland anchor]

ump already got velocity nerf, now add a rof nerf and you have 1 bullet arrive every 2 minutes on an enemy past 50m

[celest bridge]

It's a suggestion, I'm not pinging everyone "this weapon is OP nerf it to death"

[inland anchor]

[untold cipher]

I wonder why

[inland anchor]

who would have thought that your kpm is higher when your gameplay is faster due to using smgs and CQB weapons thus increasing your potential kills per minute

but who would have thought right

[west geyser]

All this talk about balance is a little stupid imo. With a game as casual about bbr you really dont need to find a perfect balance, just release a lot of content as fast as you can so hopefully it takes a while for players to even figure out the balance. Obviously fix major outliers, but it's not like it has to be perfect if most guns are plenty usable (as it is now).

[celest bridge]

Well I just aim for that

I think it'd be cool

[inland anchor]

people wanted ump nerfs, so people moved on to other weapons such as the mp7 while still playing a botched ump at times and now we are back at another nerf thread

[celest bridge]

it was also in BF3

[untold cipher]

Tbh ump buff was fucking stupid

[celest bridge]

well M16 was also very very strong but more because it's super consistent

[inland anchor]

the ump seemed way too strong cuz most of the smgs in the game are nerfed to the ground so obviously it would stick out

[untold cipher]

It got buffed to literal pre nerf ak74 😭

[celest bridge]

I think bad SMG like PP19 should have buff, some others have pretty specific gameplay (since pp2k have an enormous mag)

[inland anchor]

just like mp7 is sticking out

[celest bridge]

It's kinda hard to have everything having a personnality and being good in same time

I think that's why Oki is having a hard time

He did a pretty good job on DMR tho

Idk everyone was playing it that was just

boring

[inland anchor]

ah yes really good job that a dmr can easily two shot me in the chest, m110 my beloved

[celest bridge]

remember me some FMG9 Akimbo nightmare

[untold cipher]

Nah it was literally the old ak74

[west geyser]

0 skill required

[inland anchor]

gna ruleset was a godsent

[celest bridge]

AEK didn't boost movespeed already big in BBR

that's an important part of why I want it nerf

Imo with one of the best TTK weapon/ads + that movespeed it's insane

You cannot do airstraffing and weird thing like that in BF4

[inland anchor]

best ttk is scorpion and then followed my fal

[celest bridge]

or in BF3-V

[untold cipher]

Bruh

[celest bridge]

FAL ttk = UMP ttk = Groza ttk

[untold cipher]

Bruh.

[inland anchor]

https://youtu.be/u2qSOwceSfc?t=11

[celest bridge]

Skorpion : super big recoil, +0% ms, 0.2 ads time

[inland anchor]

bf4 has no airstrafe

[celest bridge]

and bigger reload than UMP

[inland anchor]

please watch the video i linked and reconsider what you said

[celest bridge]

I'm mainly talking about BF3 and BFV

[inland anchor]

YOU SAID bf4

WHAT

BF4

[celest bridge]

It's not on the level of BBR

[untold cipher]

Yeah its worse than bbr 😭

[merry shuttle]

but you can do rouzou or vouzou 💀

[celest bridge]

I'll reconsinder what I said on BF4 ok mb

[untold cipher]

Mp7 got a range buff its called 1.5x head multi 💀

[celest bridge]

Netcode was also pure garbage at release I played more of BF3 and BFV

Kek, u want to a lower ttk?

I think no SMG should go under 0.200 if they're not like skorpion

well you want a faster game, I don't want

[untold cipher]

Ok but why 😭

[celest bridge]

game is faster if you kill faster the enemies

I was not talking about ms here

[celest bridge]

because no MS bs, harder to control so rewarding, and I think less strong than UMP to clean a whole squad

There's a tiny difference of 0.035 between skorpion and ump rn

if you nerf UMP, people who want to kill faster and are actually better will try skorpion

[inland anchor]

talks about stuff needing to be rewarding, meanwhile rpk has no recoil and mows down an entire squad too with little to no effort

[untold cipher]

Ump is 185 or something now

[celest bridge]

Rn, they just prefer to sacrifice the ttk of the skorpion because UMP is just very good

ye 0.185

like groza and fal

[untold cipher]

Let's remove the point of smgs very funni

[celest bridge]

why skorpion not fun?

[west geyser]

Groza and fal both excell at different ranges. Comparing based only on ttk is stupid.

[inland anchor]

no they will play fal and then we gonna have a fal nerf thread the next week

[celest bridge]

I'm ok with FAL it's less strong than UMP rn at cqc

[inland anchor]

what

[celest bridge]

and also harder to use

[inland anchor]

how is cqc fal harder to use

[west geyser]

💀

[inland anchor]

you dont even need to pull down the fal in cqc while adsing cuz of how big models are + hipfire is pretty good too

[celest bridge]

ump has +5 bullet mag, +10% ms (if no short mag on FAL), FAL has +50 rof (more recoil) and a Hrecoil Vrecoil way bigger

[inland anchor]

the recoil does not matter in cqc

literally

[celest bridge]

you can do same thing with UMP, but I've seen way more big players adsing even at close range

it does, because you've to manage when swapping target

[inland anchor]

oh no, i have to pull down

scary stuff

[celest bridge]

Doing a squad clean with FAL is way harder than UMP, and I've 0 doubt about it whatever you can say it's just math

[celest bridge]

Yep, and UMP : you don't have to do shit

[inland anchor]

you really think pulling down is difficult

[celest bridge]

you are telling me FAL is as easy to use as UMP under 40m?

[inland anchor]

it isn't as difficult as you make it seem to be that's my point

[celest bridge]

let's put 40m

I played it, it's harder

[inland anchor]

clearly with a shit build then LOL

[celest bridge]

nope

[inland anchor]

if you think 40m fal kills are difficult your build is definitely bad

[west geyser]

fal's actually a little easier to use because of its higher fire rate

[celest bridge]

it's not even arguing you're just throwing words and you're saying that FAL is same shit, then why you wonder about UMP

[inland anchor]

I have almost 10k kills on ump and 3k on fal by now I think I can compare the two quite well and I'm not just saying shit

[celest bridge]

And.. sadly for you the more there's ROF the more recoil proc on each shot

when UMP has less ROF and also 2 times less recoil (almost)

[inland anchor]

but the more ROF isn't difficult to deal with
just. pull. down.

[celest bridge]

also FAL has less bullet, so more reloading and not the +10% MS which is imo a big part of why UMP is S tier now

[celest bridge]

you can't manage Hrecoil

No one was talking about Vrecoil tbh

[inland anchor]

that's why you built against hrecoil

[celest bridge]

you did instantly

[west geyser]

Vertical recoil is nothing, especially at 40 meters, and horizontal recoil can be mitigated with a flash hider

[celest bridge]

even if you built on

[untold cipher]

Bcm flash users be like

[celest bridge]

it's the weapon with the biggest Hrecoil of the game

[inland anchor]

you play flash hider on fal and your hrecoil isn't that big of a deal even at 40m

[celest bridge]

glad the FH was very strong and it get buffed

[west geyser]

and yet i barely notice it

[celest bridge]

I was already playing FH on it

Checking

350 both

[inland anchor]

...

[celest bridge]

I'm playing every weapon the same

not many hours on the game

[untold cipher]

[inland anchor]

350 kills and you will tell me you know the guns meanwhile you tell me I'm just saying shit earlier about the fal

I can't

[untold cipher]

No nitro laugh at this nerd

[celest bridge]

So because you've 10k on UMP/FAL means the 10% move speed, recoil and same TTK changes?

[west geyser]

based non nitro user

[celest bridge]

[west geyser]

thats like 2-4 games

[inland anchor]

I think I know more about how the gun plays out ingame then you

considering I have 9500kills more than you

[celest bridge]

What's the matter?

How many you've on FPS?

[west geyser]

I have 2956 on ump and 2788 on fal and im pretty sure im on the low end here...

[celest bridge]

[inland anchor]

you act like you know the guns and their gameplay well enough to make a post like that but you don't even have bronze mastery unlocked

[celest bridge]

It's exactly the same shit

If I've 10k on others FPS game and you've like 1k, can I spam emoji like you because you don't know shit about balancing?

[inland anchor]

you properly have more experience in that game yeah

[celest bridge]

my kills and yours don't affect that the FAL is just way harder and less stronger than the UMP CQC

[inland anchor]

wait lemme ask, how many on mp7

[untold cipher]

💀

[celest bridge]

Even if you try that argument and full taunt on it

[inland anchor]

you barely have gametime on the fal OFC will you consider it a harder gun if you don't practice it

LMAO

[untold cipher]

We aren't even trying

[inland anchor]

it really isn't

lemme use m110 get 100 kills and then make a thread about how broken it is

seems pretty legit

[signal carbon]

Did this chat degenerate to monkeys throwing insults at each other?

[inland anchor]

no one is insulting anyone

LOL

[celest bridge]

they only know to argue like this

[signal carbon]

it happens every goddamn time

[celest bridge]

so if a new player with more kills come, he'll be able to shut your mouth down because they have more?

it's the worse arguing i've ever seen

[inland anchor]

I'm just saying that 350 kills isn't really a good amount of experience to make proper suggestions on changes

[west geyser]

The problem isnt about who has more kills, its that you have barely any.

[celest bridge]

back to the stats : If you're on SE-5 FH on FAL it's still 1.67/1.64 when UMP is 1.3/0.9 without any attachments

[signal carbon]

can we have a single civil conversation in this server for once???

[west geyser]

Shut up. Stay on topic.

[celest bridge]

trying

[inland anchor]

how is this not civil, no one is insulting anyone lmao

[celest bridge]

quite hard

[signal carbon]

Ok

[celest bridge]

Nope he's right

[inland anchor]

but I refuse to take someone's suggestion if they barely have any playtime on the guns they want to nerf or have a saying on

[celest bridge]

Having kills and mastering a weapon doesn't mean its stats change in a way

and I refuse to listen to a guy with 80IQ, it's the same kind of argument

[west geyser]

Now look who's attacking

[celest bridge]

SE-5 FH on FAL it's still 1.67/1.64 when UMP is 1.3/0.9 without any attachments ?

650 Rof => more recoil

less movespeed, bigger reload time

better or not ?

It's just math really

FAL is harder to control, so more rewarding

[inland anchor]

good one, attacking my iq cuz of what exactly?

[celest bridge]

You made your arguing around how many kills I have

Why can't I do the same?

I can

[west geyser]

IQ is the same as kills?

[celest bridge]

It's as dumb as what you're doing

instead of speaking about the real stats of each guns

[west geyser]

You are arguing about the feeling of a gun, not the intelligence of a person. Of course your experience with the gun is going to be relevant.

[celest bridge]

Sadly for you having more kills don't bring more logic in your statement

you didn't answer about the stats

My statement was FAL is harder to control, and you'll have to control it if you're bad, good, very good, it'll take more brain to use it, so it's harder

[celest bridge]

Recoil is "feeling"

[inland anchor]

it takes brainpower for you to just pull down your mouse??

[celest bridge]

you are talking about feeling because you're saying we need more kills on the weapon to talk about it

more kills don't change the maths of the gun

you're drowning into your own argumentation

[untold cipher]

Brain power

[west geyser]

Understanding how much certain stats impact the gun absolutely is a feeling thing.

[inland anchor]

damn i guess my iq is too low to use fal from now on

[west geyser]

It takes experience to understand that

[celest bridge]

I think it's kinda done, you don't really have more to say, it'll end exactly like the other thread, you're not talking about the topic anymore

[inland anchor]

my brain not good to control recoil

[celest bridge]

You didn't know that?

[inland anchor]

it is musclememory, not active brainpower

[celest bridge]

big

[celest bridge]

ah yes your hand is doing it by itself

you're really dumb

it's insane

[west geyser]

He hasnt used the gun enough to get to that point lmao

[inland anchor]

muscle memory, MUSCLES

[worldly nacelle]

the recoil in mi MP7 config is 0.95 vertical, 0.97 horizontal

[inland anchor]

why do you keep insulting me

[celest bridge]

you're blocked Maay and Kim Jong, talk to the wall

[worldly nacelle]

i use the Mp7 like the perfect CQC gun

[west geyser]

@proper sparrow Ok this is kinda crazy. He keeps interpreting what we say and insults and therefore thinks its ok for him to attack us about random stuff.

[inland anchor]

jesus another one of those childs lmao

[celest bridge]

can't argue, lost the argumentation try to spam taunting

[celest bridge]

Yeah that's the way

[untold cipher]

😭

[west geyser]

Yeah that's pretty much how muscle memory works...

[celest bridge]

you should really learn what is muscle memory

[untold cipher]

No i think you should

[worldly nacelle]

I think they need a more aggresive damage fall of, starting with 35m and ending in 60m

[celest bridge]

Nah, muscle memory work on unconscious you don't really have to actively think about it

[west geyser]

Muscle memory is when you repeat an action enough times to the point where you dont have to think about what you are doing.

It's a habit

[celest bridge]

it's exactly like driving

but it's still your brain working behind

[worldly nacelle]

men sometimes I kill people in the 75 - 100 m range very quick

[celest bridge]

Yeah so your hand is moving by itself? No brain activity?

For real 1 IQ

[untold cipher]

Aka recoil control 😭

[west geyser]

Why do you keep attacking my intelligence?

That's 3 times you've done that now

[celest bridge]

Yep and it uses your brain

[steady tulip]

I’m intentionally saying nothing, pls buff my favorite weapon

(No seriously I wanna use bizon more)

[worldly nacelle]

Now the MP7 got buffed

is in the PDW category

[untold cipher]

Oh my fuck

[worldly nacelle]

that equals a 1.5x HS multiplier

[celest bridge]

Because I've no other words, you're actually saying that when you've muscle memory it doesn't need your brain anymore

it's false, wrong assumption

you're talking about a subject you don't master

[west geyser]

Surely in your original statement you meant the miniscule amount of brainpower it takes to move muscles Clueless

[celest bridge]

Too late dude

[west geyser]

Do you think the brain power it takes to beat your heart is relevent at all to anything we're talking about too?

[celest bridge]

"recoil doesn't need brain" Kek

You're just trying all yourself to make people believe again that UMP is as easy to play as FAL in CQC

you're only right at 1m, gg dude

[west geyser]

"umm actually breathing isnt meta, it takes brain power away from recoil control"

[celest bridge]

it's actually not even comparable

check yourself on google

So you're saying that muscle memory in sport/video game, is the same as your heart beating and you breathing?

[untold cipher]

Tbh yall are arguing against a mf that used someones steam friend list as an argument

[celest bridge]

So now trying to discredit because no argument

[green gorge]

Not really his main argument was robo was killing a lot with the ump so it should be nerfed

[celest bridge]

Every tools are good

[green gorge]

Like he doesn't do it with every weapon

[celest bridge]

You're lucky than mods are really AFK on this discord

[worldly nacelle]

it was 30 before

[inland anchor]

you discredited my argument in another thread cuz im friends with the guy that disagrees with you

[worldly nacelle]

lit the Mp7 got a buff

[inland anchor]

i dont think you can judge anyone

[worldly nacelle]

Its a 3 shot kill if you hit the head

[celest bridge]

Actually I answered to it and said that you're already biaised in the argumentation

Sadly you've to transform words

Sure man I just said that and I didn't answer to all the bs you sent to me

that's some fish memory there

[inland anchor]

i said discredited not that you didnt answer me?

[celest bridge]

(kinda different from muscle memory)

[inland anchor]

you gotta start reading properly before you continue yapping again
i never said that you didnt answer me, i said that you discredited my arguments cuz im friends with steve

[inland anchor]

says you after personally attacking me and chum a few times LMAO but keep it up

meanwhile we never said anything negative about you as a person

[celest bridge]

Oooh he gonna do the victim after taunting me with his friend during 50min yestereday on an other thread, spamming emoji, discredit, ad hominem, etc

[inland anchor]

??????????????

you are playing the victim asking for mods

[celest bridge]

Come on Maay-chan

[inland anchor]

are you okay

[west geyser]

But you said he doesnt have that many kills with the FAL, so that basically means he can belittle us as much as he wants!

[celest bridge]

Go drink water and touch some grass

sorry If I hurt you sweetheart

[inland anchor]

i touch grass every day, whats next?

[west geyser]

He's doing it again

[celest bridge]

[inland anchor]

anything else you wanna assume about me

[west geyser]

thats what like 5 times this thread?

[weak parrot]

What a good morning read

Love this comedy show

[inland anchor]

come on okami, whats next about me

tell me

[upper swift]

okami just keeps getting bodied in here

[weak parrot]

First it was my other post, now here. But hey guys I'm Mr. Noname

[steady tulip]

Okami im just gonna say mods probably don’t step in cause

1. Nobody bothers to contact them in mod mail or whatever
2. Everyone involved would likely be punished in some way, or thread would be locked

[celest bridge]

I'm fine with that at this point

Many people came here to say that there's no arguing, it's just pure trolling

always the same

[west geyser]

Im pretty sure Okami is the only one breaking rules here, I already pinged julgers but he seems to be afk.

[weak parrot]

I'm fine with you being removed from the server

[inland anchor]

first my iq is too low, then i have fish memory and now im not a grass toucher :((
whats next okami

[celest bridge]

you'll get before me I think, specially for the whole bs you already wrote about the game

[west geyser]

Yeah i dont think okami is gonna last too long in this server, considering the quality of hit opinions and his reactions to them being proven wrong.

[celest bridge]

good night peps

[weak parrot]

YES YES MY TURN ATTACK ME

I'm next fuck u maay

[steady tulip]

I’ll have to agree because I’ve only seen him use insults, but I haven’t scrolled up much truthfully (outside of the pp19 mention) so anyone else could have done it too

[untold cipher]

😭

[inland anchor]

no steve, i have this gem that ill keep in my collection
i won this time

he loves me fr, especially after calling me maay-chan

[upper swift]

the french can't game

[untold cipher]

Oh what the fuck

[weak parrot]

@inland anchor ya but I have this one

Going on my fridge tbh

[inland anchor]

my new background

[upper swift]

git gut

[weak parrot]

LMFAO

[upper swift]

this is prob the best discord server that exists

[weak parrot]

I read it every morning tbh, just cause of the entertainment value

[untold cipher]

Change it to your banner

[upper swift]

the only reason i have the tier 3 role is from shitposting and trolling in here

[inland anchor]

nah people gonna think im into it or some shit without knowing the context

[untold cipher]

Worth it

[upper swift]

you dont have to hide it Maay-chan

[inland anchor]

wawit i cant even downvote the thread cuz im blocked

[untold cipher]

L

[inland anchor]

great discord feature to remove reacts from blocked people

[upper swift]

secret to rigging votes discovered

[weak parrot]

Wait her blocked you

[west geyser]

Oh is that what that means?

[inland anchor]

yeah

[west geyser]

There have been a few threads I couldnt downvote 🤔

[inland anchor]

if you are blocked you cant react to the messages

[weak parrot]

Tf why didn't I get blocked

[west geyser]

That's the meta, if you wanna make a stupid suggestion, just block all of the people who have more than 10 hours in game

[inland anchor]

no wonder the collision thread made it in

[weak parrot]

I just got my 350 kills on the FAMAS, it's time to make my balance post

[west geyser]

sounds like something diego would do tbh

[signal carbon]

Suggestions are suggestions. Anyone can make them, you can choose to ignor them but people can still make them

[weak parrot]

Like I said to Okami before they won't be able to post anymore once Oki puts in restrictions on suggestions

Which is happening

[upper swift]

good

[west geyser]

What did he say about that?

[weak parrot]

Either gonna be a level or in game hours required to vote or make them.

[signal carbon]

What do u people assume the restriction will be?

[weak parrot]

Okami? He just ignored it and insulted me

[west geyser]

No i mean oki

[inland anchor]

people just gotta understand that making a bad suggestion will result in proper reactions from people
im open for suggestions and changes but if the suggestion is straight up bad then ill say so

and making a weapon nerf thread when you barely have any experience with the weapons in question it just gets very silly imo

[weak parrot]

Oh lmao, sounds like he's making it something you vote for in game poll and not in the discord

[inland anchor]

thank god

[weak parrot]

Exactly on the flipside people have ideas that are really good. Not about balance all the time

[west geyser]

Oh yeah, I saw that announcement. I've been thinking he should do this for forever.

[untold cipher]

Delete the game

[inland anchor]

oh there are good changes and suggestions ofc

[untold cipher]

Gud suggestion

[west geyser]

It's really important to get a diversity of player opinions, especially in a game like this.

[weak parrot]

It's sad oki's just drowning himself in balance suggestions and not anything like useful like additional content

[untold cipher]

Gun balance good enough armor and damage feedback need work first

[west geyser]

Problem is that most of the good suggestions get burried because they have no activity, so they dont get bumped. No need to send a message on a thread that you 100% agree with.

Or content suggestions get downvoted because people think it would take time away from development or something

[weak parrot]

Backend work on things like hitboxes when you're moving need to be brushed up on but I'm okay with dealing with it if
he can make more new content to distract me from how bad it is

[untold cipher]

Nothing will distract me from armor

Actually a mag rework might

[west geyser]

True, I said this earlier, since bbr is so casual new content can totally distract from meta discussions to the point where you hardly have to make any balance changes at all.

[weak parrot]

I have armor sounds turned off

They're just regular hit marker sounds

If it gets really bad you will have a suggestion with a billion votes yes to fixing something

[untold cipher]

Fuck new guns gimmie not shit mags

[weak parrot]

Nobody should be making changes when 40% of the community is against it tbf

[untold cipher]

Gimmie drum mag mp7

[weak parrot]

70% approval rating to make changes will actually make people vote

RuneScapes voting system is almost flawless, game still is kicking and growing with graphics from 2007

[west geyser]

-30% move speed

[untold cipher]

You missed a 0

[weak parrot]

I wanted to add to my super offtopic comment about runescape. Its not even being considered low graphics anymore but an artstyle. Crazy.

[untold cipher]

Thats cool now fix the g3 reload

[frail flicker]

-300% all i hear is accelerated backhopping

[west geyser]

abh is fun

oki should add that

[frail flicker]

it would be great, spawn in on wakistan, backhop across both bridges in about 5 seconds, go crazy with c4

[untold cipher]

Get headshot by m200

[frail flicker]

😭

[low sky]

so basically what you want to do is initiate an accelerated backhop towards the ramped surface behind you and th