Sniper Suppressors should reduce the "Tracer Effect".

[limpid stump]

Seeing the new Tracer Effect for Sniper Rifles, seen here: #dev-wip message , the effect lasts three seconds. Adding a suppressor is meant for stealth and position concealment, so here is a simple idea:

• Snipers without any Suppressor will have it last three seconds, being the default.
• Snipers with the Short Suppressor barrel attachment will have it last only 2 seconds (1 second reduction from the original).
• Snipers with the Long Suppressor barrel attachment will have it only last 1 second (2 second reduction from the original).

[hasty glade]

Suppressors are already pretty good, no? If they are the norm then we may as well not do this and just reduce the base time, but I don't think that is the intention.

[devout dock]

I like your idea

[arctic swan]

There no reason RN to use any barrel attachment but suppressor anyway

Why add that to suppressor?

[stone hull]

I would agree if suppressors also come with significant nerfs to stats
for example non 1.00 accuracy or reduced damage by a lot

[devout dock]

I think that kind of penalties make the sniper unusable, more things like more ADS, Reaload Speed, Running Speed and Weapon change velocity

[stone hull]

In the new "default" world of BBR, sniper rifles comes with the trace
and removing the trace is a very very powerful buff

[tawny nymph]

While I think there should be an attachment that reduces the tracer effect it's hard to say where to put it. Adding it to silencer seems like too much with the increased velocity. But making it it's own final attachment (with default velocity for balance) means that you have to slog through 500-1,000 kills (or whatever # we make it). It's also a big enough change that we need to consider long term people who prestige. Once you get the attachment you have it forever so the sniper is effectively the same as it is now while only being exposing for new players.

[tardy roost]

accuracy is meaningless

literally useless stat

[stone hull]

no
if accuracy is non-1, a shot is not guaranteed to land at where the crosshair points (neglecting gravity)

[tardy roost]

accuracy stat doesnt do anything

if you account for distance you can hit 1000m shots with sub 70% accuracy with ease

[flat parrot]

wtf sniper trails? rip snipers wont touch them again

[vital helm]

Ranger barrel could reduce it instead

because like someone said suppressors are the only thing worth using on snipers rn

[vital helm]

its not that bad

because they are heavily reducing glint of long range scopes

[sudden stratus]

There's a 3 second line to your position

[vital helm]

and before it was a huge glowing dot right on your head

that they could see even when you weren't looking at them

its a far trade off I'm my opinion

[obsidian anchor]

I agree with the idea, but not how attachments work right now. Only if suppressors were reworked to only lower sound and tracers while other attachments gave it stuff like extra velocity/damage/recoil

[sudden stratus]

Not when I didn't use long range scopes. This update has made med scopes shit and now they're also adding a big line to my position. Might as well have me permanently tagged for the enemy too

Med scopes were the compromise for snipers who didn't want glint you traded the glint for inferior zoom. Not you get inferior zoom and glint.

[vital helm]

made medium scopes balanced more like it
it was never ok for the 1 shot kill weopon to never have glint but still give plenty of zoom to kill 500m out

and your shots already pointed you out before along with the flash of the shot if you weren't running suppressor

and where long range scopes are having reduced glint you can actually run the 6x and hell I'll take a line in the air for three seconds instead of a huge glowing head

[flat parrot]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1181374982081753118

[sudden stratus]

Useless, not balanced. It was always a tradeoff between zoom and visibility. Now it's not

[sudden stratus]

Not too the same degree, a flash is markedly different from a big line to your position that lasts 3 seconds

[vital helm]

it really wasn't a trade off. 4x was plenty effective out to 500m

[sudden stratus]

Glad that's not maps larger than 500m

[vital helm]

WTF do you mean XD

the easily seen dot right on your head that was able to be seen through stuff until it was removed is way worse then a line that points at you for a few seconds after you shot and guess what if you kill the person they cant make use of that line that's going to blind in with a lot of the sky boxes

and before they skuffed up the pinging they could just ping right where you were at after they died anyway

[sudden stratus]

Removing 1 bad thing isn't a good reason to add something equally as shit to the game

[vital helm]

I'm saying the line isn't bad
you are

[sudden stratus]

Yes

It is

[vital helm]

I'm a ok with the line i think it looks cool

and its not going to be as big of a problem as you think its going to be

[sudden stratus]

We'll I'm not and neither are a lot of other snipers

It's a stupid decision

[vital helm]

i think your just mad you cant sit in a bush 300m out anymore and farm kills

[sudden stratus]

You don't play sniper do you?

[vital helm]

yep

[sudden stratus]

I only ask because you seem to think 300-500m is in some way impressive

[vital helm]

was getting about 50 kills a game with them earlier today so I'm experienced with them

[sudden stratus]

And you still think 500m is an impressive shot?

[vital helm]

oh I'm saying the opposite

using a medium scope to get kills 500m out isn't impressive

and they deserve a glint because of it

[sudden stratus]

No they really don't. Finding enemy snipers is really that hard if you have an IQ above single digits.

This series of updates has basically destroyed the sniper gameplay and just made it a shitty shooting gallery

[flat parrot]

We have shared many ideas on how to fix the class in this thread https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1181374982081753118

[sudden stratus]

No point finding a good hiding place because your first shot gives your position away. No point trying to work out where enemy snipers are, just wait a few seconds and they'll light up

No point wasting your time flanking

It's going to be like salhan sniping every map

[vital helm]

its less about finding them and more of being able to actually do something other then constantly running and never stop moving to avoid getting shot

glints on medium scopes lets you at least try and avoid dying to a one shot kill gun

the smoke is going to act the same to almost everyone they will see it and just know there is a recon watching that area

[sudden stratus]

"Med scopes should be nerfed so i can stand around outside of cover without risk"

[forest herald]

honestly tracer effect shouldnt be a thing at all, we already got tracer bullets and the bright sun down our scope

[vital helm]

bru you could be in cover and a recon off in a opposite direction where fight is can farm free kills and you wouldn't be able to react until your dead and respawned

[sudden stratus]

How dare the enemy not attack from the front only

I've now heard that the med scope nerf is good because it encourages people not to camp in spawn and that it's good because it encourages people not to sneak around behind you. To a casual observer these might seem contradictory

[vital helm]

and also idk how many times i killed someone in cover because .1% of there dead was sticking out of the top of whatever they were behind

I'm sure they had a great time being in cover and dying to someone who "shouldn't" have been able to shoot them

[brave sun]

You make it sound like snipers are the single reason you are dying

[sudden stratus]

this seems like a problem with the cover, not a sniper rifle

Also I don't see how scope glint or bullet trails will fix you getting a high velocty lobotomy because the top of your head is poking out of cover

[vital helm]

bru you all make it sound like all bolt actions should be as powerful as getting slapped by god with no downside to it

[vital helm]

bru you were the one who brought up cover btw don't get upset when i try and point out a flaw in your statements

[brave sun]

Destroying the point of being a "sniper" isn't it bruv, give me a pea shooter then, give me more sway or recoil idc, but revealing your location to the whole lobby isn't it mate

[coral sable]

It is that bad, they basically forced every sniper who played aggressively to camp and you can no longer flank well with tracers giving away you position every shot

[sudden stratus]

There are downsides. There are already tracer rounds. Long range scopes glint. the M200 carries fuck all ammo. Even with high velocity shots bullet travel time makes it very difficult to hit moving targets at range

[sudden stratus]

This is what he wants

[coral sable]

So he wants more people to camp

??

[sudden stratus]

Yeah he said snipers are bad because he doesn't like getting sniped from behind

[coral sable]

All this does is force people who don’t camp to camp

[sudden stratus]

Here

[coral sable]

Amazing

[brave sun]

1 dimensionsal fighting yay

[vital helm]

the tiny smoke trail isn't revealing your location to the whole lobby XD

They are making the glint on long range scopes why smaller so you can actually use them

so to make sure the snipers aren't super broken because of it they are adding a trail that most people wont even pay attention to OH GOD THE HUMANITY

[coral sable]

Fuck skilled positioning anyway

[coral sable]

People are gonna notice a damn straight line esp in med range

[sudden stratus]

I say we go back to 18th century volley fire. Going to get myself a british redcoat skin

Flanking is most ungentlemanly

[sudden stratus]

By tiny you mean from my muzzle to my target, so potentially 1600+m

[vital helm]

if your running and gunning why would a line pointing where you were at and not where you are moving be that big of a problem it actually sounds like it would be a good distraction 🤔

[brave sun]

How about we remove rifles from the game and introduce sword fighting, so no one can get sniped

[vital helm]

just dont peak the same area

[sudden stratus]

The line lasts 3 seconds. Long enough to easily identify your position but not nearly long enough for you to leave the area

It's as much of a distraction as setting up a sniper decory right next to yourself

[coral sable]

You’re telling me if you find a good flanking position on an assault you’re gonna leave it everytime you kill someone because “gun and run”?

[sudden stratus]

Snipers are well known for moving as much as possible

[coral sable]

Well I kinda do but Im an exception

[sudden stratus]

Those ghillie suits they wear aren't hot at all and actually streamline them for running

[devout dock]

That's wrong, snipers are pasive/agressive players, they only move if they see their spot compromised

And an alone sniper is a very easy target when you get close to them

Many times you get killed by an assault/Medic that hunt snipers because they see the bullet or hear the shot

[zealous verge]

Honestly, kind of wish silencer's caused huge lowering of velocity.

I'd be happy to see it remove the trails if it also cut velocity by 300+ as a kind of "subsonic" round

The same with all silencers tbh

[sudden stratus]

I know. I was being sarcastic

[coral sable]

Subsonic rounds wouldn’t work on a sniper, I mean blackout rounds r being used on the honey badger iirc and it wirks because they are cqc weapons

[zealous verge]

Yes yes I know but I'm talking about balance rather than realism

[coral sable]

You can make it a magazine and supressor combo

But you are still just band-aiding and also utterly nerfing the reliability of snipers

[sour veldt]

I think a velocity reduction is the best way to implement suppressors on snipers, but not by that much lol

e.g. u can really feel it when sniping around 500+ meters, but it’s much more manageable in the 200-300 ranges and will feel almost normal

[thin wren]

I think this should more be the realm of flash hiders. As what's even the point of putting a flash hider on a Sniper if you're going to have a neon sign saying "I'm over here!" Every time you shoot?

[sour veldt]

flash hiders should reduce the trace effect, suppressors should do that and sound reduction

[devout dock]

The problem with supresors is the extra bullet speed they give you

[sour veldt]

don’t give them extra bullet speed for snipers lol, reduce it

[zenith trench]

Afaik tracer elements usually also take a bit to ignite, so could possibly add a small delay before it comes into effect, making it less of a pointer directly to your muzzle, snd more to your general location?

[sour veldt]

this would require people to constantly change position, and anyways any real delay will feel super weird lol

maybe a small one would be nice tho

[devout dock]

I think it kill playing sneaky with every sniper that are not the M200

They need Buff all snipers in velocity before nerfing the suppressors in bullet speed

[sour veldt]

I think the suppressors should shorten sniper ranges to abt 200-400 meters, extreme long range players would get this slight nerf to balance out getting killed across the map for no reason

[zenith trench]

It'd definitely still encourage changing positions, but doesn't the scope glint also do that?

[devout dock]

And I don't want to see the DMRs meta

[sour veldt]

loll I think running halfway across the map every time u fire a shot wouldn’t be fun lol

u should be able to use a position for a few kills

[zenith trench]

I only use DMRs with recon, so can't really speak from any experience other than being on the receiving end of sniper fire lol, but yeah either way it does seem like sniping is being pretty heavily nerfed by having a trail pointing directly to your exact location.

[devout dock]

The scope glint do that, the bullet trace punish very hard if you shot, if you miss you're fucked, if you hit you're fucked too

Sniper is the easiest class to kill once you are close to them

And you can get kill by a DMR, combat rifles, and other snipers

This only encourages camping in your safe zone and moving only in your safe zone

[sour veldt]

suppressors should allow u to participate in closer range sniping (200-400m) with a little less risk

u shouldn’t be able to do long range sniping w them tho, which isn’t really that bad of a nerf anyways since ur usually in a secure position while doing that

[zenith trench]

It's difficult to balance though, since something like an unlockable killflash would only really give an advantage to the players who should have learned how to handle the glint, and completely eliminating it would just push the balance to the other extreme.
Having it be dependent on your surroundings (IE no glint in shade or inside buildings) would of course make it more reliant on player skill, but that seems like it'd be hellish to code.

[tight socket]

I think that the trail should be velocity based. Snipers can then get an attachment that reduces velocity to remove the trail, but now requires more leading and skill to avoid detection

Or introduce a sniper that is inherently bad at range, having something like either heavy bullet drop, reduced damage, or inaccuracy beyond a certain range- but excels in close range and is not given bullet trails

[coral sable]

Its not a real problem, it became a problem when rangers no longer have any purpose for dmg increasing

[devout dock]

I think is a better idea giving the ranger barrel more bullet speed than the suppressors

Ah I forgot, the sniper shot now is audible in half map

[coral sable]

Personally I think that ranger should give dmg and speed while supressors give speed and stealth. So there’s actual options and reason to use one over the other

[valid skiff]

I think accessory buffing damage is too op. It also add more complexity to the game.

[valid skiff]

If you still want the OS HS on Exo helmet => HS multiplier increased or rework/change armor. But it's not linked to this thread.

Suppressor's sound suppression is pretty bad. Only good point is the flash being 0.

[coral sable]

I use L96 so I wasn’t talking abt OS on Exo

[valid skiff]

damage wouldn't change much then

[coral sable]

Just in general more speed and dmg or supressor. It can be the difference between 1 headshot and one body shot on exos

[valid skiff]

supressor shouldn't give speed tho 💀

[coral sable]

Even on L96 you can’t kill exos with 1 hs and 1 body

Supressors should give speed its literally part of its design

[valid skiff]

talkin' balance wise

[coral sable]

They could make first shot kick higher for suppressors instead too

Just sniper suppressors since recoil doesn’t affect it too much just make recoil actually matter with first shot kick, it would affect bolting in ads

[valid skiff]

idk if that's even bad 🤔

Affect draw speed I think would be good

[coral sable]

Bolting in ads would be affected a bit but probably not enough

Draw speed makes sense

[valid skiff]

draw speed can be extremely usefull on snipers 👀

[coral sable]

Yeah

Unless you use deagle

[valid skiff]

Moreover that draw speed seems to work kinda like this: Switch from main to Secondary = 2/3 of Main gun draw speed + 1/3 of sidearm draw speed. Switch from secondary to main gun = Draw speed of sidearm 2/3 + 1/3 of main gun.

So draw speeds downside would make you better from afar but worse from upclose 👀

run speed could work too

[coral sable]

Need to get confirmation of that though

Kinda weird why it isn’t just draw speed of main gun+ draw speed of secondary

And that theres scaling like that

[valid skiff]

That's what I got from my test with a friend :p

[coral sable]

Run speed already gets affected though

But it also is on snipers, decreasing run speed just makes it worse for people who don’t camp

[valid skiff]

Draw speed might be better as a downside than run speed yeah

Especially if you're playing close range sniper

ADS>Runspeed>Draw speed, I think are the worse to get downside on for close range snipers.

[coral sable]

Sigh ig that’s fine

Or just make ranger actually useful

So there are actual trade offs

At that point I’d rather have a non increased velocity