Make armor regenerate over time.

[jaunty notch]

Make armor regenerate over a short-ish period of time and nerf armor numbers accordingly.

tldr: Making armor regenerate over time increases the consistency for both parties and would allow devs to nerf armor values to feel less oppressive in a fight without making armor feel useless (which it already does for some people).

Right now armor is in a really bad spot. As discussed in other threads, the person wearing the armor doesn't consciously notice the effect that it has, but the person shooting notices the effect of armor quite a bit, especially for heavy and exo. This is because armor only effects the wearer for one fight, but a shooter might run into multiple armor users across a single life.

This effect might even out over the course of a game, but it definitely doesn't feel like it for either party, as there is no UI feedback for when your armor saves you, and a shooter won't notice if they got a kill that they wouldn't have, had the other player been wearing armor.

Also, I have seen some suggestions about adding armor repair stations, or allowing other classes to heal armor like medic can heal health. I don't think either of those options or anything like it would be good, as it would force people who want to use armor to rely on their teammates, which would introduce more inconsistency. It would also make the game feel clunky, and make any potential nerfs to armor hard to do without making it feel even worse.

[still tusk]

Another suggestion I saw was making support repair armors, but idk

[jaunty notch]

I address that in the above mesage.

[still tusk]

My bad, honestly I think armor is kinda weird, I can't think of something to make it work without being too op

[jaunty notch]

@worthy inlet @hollow kite @cloud juniper Please clarify why you have voted no.

[oak condor]

Just remove armor

[jaunty notch]

I think adding regen for armor opens up the possibility for devs to nerf it in other ways without it feeling like they are just making it useless

[oak condor]

No guesswork how many bullets the random shitter will take before going down

[still tusk]

Only way I think of making it work is making a flat reduction in dmg, but that's almost the same as doing nothing

[fading niche]

people didnt like removing armor

[fading niche]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1179971749614469150

[worthy inlet]

Well I have problem with Quick armour regen

[oak condor]

Well "the people" (majority of players) are shit at the game and their opinion should not be heard

[still tusk]

The only reason why armor doesn't work, is because this is not a milsim, this goes against the casual and frenetic view of the game

[fading niche]

i did suggest something on armor https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1180345678740865094

that still needs some tweaking

[jaunty notch]

I didnt say it had to be quick, what i mean't by shot-ish is just not so long that it feels like it would just be better to respawn

[fading niche]

if its so slow that respawning is better why even implement it

lmao

[jaunty notch]

I said not.

[void tiger]

I think there should be armour plates

[pearl hound]

what's the issue with it only being in ammo boxes? that you have to rely on your team in a team game?

[void tiger]

Yes

[jaunty notch]

Yes

[fading niche]

yeah

[jaunty notch]

I do not want to have to sit arount and wait for a support player that may or may not be where i am just so that I can have my armor

at that point armor just becomes pointless to me, as I usually play on my own, which is something taht this game is explicitely designed to allow for

[fading niche]

my suggestion makes armor still breakable but more durable that you can still use it

even after you die

[pearl hound]

so I should also slowly regen ammo since I shouldn't be forced to wait for supports?

[void tiger]

I think I should be able replace my armour using armour plates. Like replace my c4 with that

[fading niche]

i can see that work but like

C4 is so essential right now

than armor that just breaks in an instant

[jaunty notch]

Youre idea is very different from mine and I see a couple problems with it. One is that it would still end up having the same issues for the shooter, shots to kill would not change. Two is that it changes how all of the guns would have to be balanced, as they are currently balanced around armor existing as it works now.

[void tiger]

Yeah fair

Exo armour is a life saver

I love it

[jaunty notch]

Awful example, you can call a supply drop.

You can also play a class with a supply kit.

[void tiger]

Why shouldn’t armour regrn over time though?

[pearl gorge]

Regenerating armor sounds cool. But idk. I feel like if you change the value of armour rn. The gun balance will be all over the place.

[dapper grotto]

balance

[pearl hound]

it is exactly the same when you can resupply armor with supply drop

same with supply kit

[jaunty notch]

Not how often you do it.

[dapper grotto]

won't affect gun balance significantly as long as the fundamental mechanics of armour are not changed

[pearl hound]

it is exactly the same as with armor

[jaunty notch]

Its very rare that you run out of ammo in a single life, imagine having to call a whole supply drop every single time you take a fight.

[void tiger]

So if you’re out of a fight for a minute, your armour regenerates. I think that’s good

[jaunty notch]

Again, would leave armor completely unviable, especially for an alone playstyle.

[pearl hound]

I do that quite regularly

[void tiger]

But why

[jaunty notch]

Did you even read any of what I wrote or just the title?

[dapper grotto]

found the light armour medic...

[void tiger]

Yeah I also run out often

[jaunty notch]

How many fights on average do you take before you call a supply drop, do you think?

[pearl hound]

it's the same with engi or close range sniper

[gilded pier]

What is kd? Cuz I use at least one of my ammo kits on assault every single life, often both.

[pearl gorge]

I think if you can have a cool mechanic that add fun or tactic or teamwork, it should be there. If you make it regenerative, I wouldn't change the armour value. I'd add more downside, and make it so if you bleed or took damage recently. It pushes the time before armor regenerate. But tbh, I woulf heavily prefer a " you gotta go there or do this or need this" to regen armor.

[dapper grotto]

true, but engi does have RPG as effectively another secondary to extend how long they can fight for

[pearl hound]

depends I first search for a support in a team based game before I call one in

[jaunty notch]

i thimk my kd's a little above 2. It doesnt really matter though, the comparison im making is that calling a supply drop to get ammo is much more reasonable than calling a supply drop every time you lose armor

Losing all armor happens far more often than losing all ammo, idk why this is being argued.

[heady surge]

also doesnt work because of broken hitboxes

[still tusk]

Also that, yeah

[fading niche]

yes shot to kill will or will not change but atleast even after getting revived you would still feel the armor since there will be a portion of it instead of just going away after you die

[pearl hound]

you also have the option to get your teams help so you aren't forced to get a drop

[dapper grotto]

broken as in limited or bugged?

[void tiger]

Why should anyone listen to you when you can’t actually explain yourself silly billy

[jaunty notch]

what?

[heady surge]

hit a guy 3 times in the arm expect 4th to kill but no you just shot their plate and lose instead

[still tusk]

Seeing this, why not add an armor storage usable by any team when a point gets captured the first time, limited uses, something like 100

[void tiger]

[dapper grotto]

That's not a hitbox issue, that is armour doing exactly what it is there to do
if it couldn't affect the outcome of a fight it would be literally useless

[jaunty notch]

Use your words please. I dont understand why you dont like this idea beyond "regeneration bad!"

[heady surge]

3 arm hits
armor hit after that
when you get 3 body hits it should be because they have none not because you hit their pinky infront of said armor

[dapper grotto]

I don't know what you mean. Because they have none of what?

[heady surge]

[void tiger]

POOP OF DUTY FAN !!! Like you’re one to talk lol

[dapper grotto]

and the example was 3 arm hits rather than 3 body hits which makes that confusing

[heady surge]

[jaunty notch]

Maybe you should read some of my reasoning for why I think it would be a good change. I'm sure you'll like it.

[pearl gorge]

I think you shouldn't be able to get armor back if you're either rushing alone or camping alone. I would think team/squad being needed. And it being locked being squad point, should be the way. Promote teamwork.

[pearl hound]

honestly the 2 main classes that rely on armor both have the option to resupply themselves so I don't see why we would need to add regen
beside either regen is slow af and useless or too fast

[void tiger]

[jaunty notch]

I wouldnt be apposed to something we could manually do to regenerate armor, as well as something teammates could do. Just not only the latter. Also it might get a bit much to have to sit for 5 minutes healing and rearmoring after every fight.

[dapper grotto]

the lack of existence of an ideal level of regen is not possible. Don't make it out as some kind of binary, that's just silly

[gilded pier]

@jaunty notch ur observation of armor is noticeable to the shooter, not the wearer, is very accurate. But I don't think regen is the way to fix, honestly just fuck it off entirely or make it permanent, no armor breaking. This way there is 0 guessing ttk

[jaunty notch]

wdym make it permanent?

[fading niche]

like theres damage reduction permanent

[upbeat schooner]

Mate, pinging people to come and explain themselves because you can't imagine people might not agree with your reasoning is just daft. Let's not encourage that behaviour.

I prefer single use armour. If it's helped you survive one encounter, great, maybe you learn to take better cover. Regen would only take further risk away from the flankers and wanderers trying to pick backlines as they can get fully tanked up for each future encounter.

[jaunty notch]

Maybe if you used your grown up words to explain why you dont like it i would understand more. You dont see me talking to the other people in this thread like they are children with no access to their emotions.

[north forum]

🫃how about armor resupply ?

but like very costly

[stiff forge]

We need different armor mechanics, since this is done in Warface.

[gilded pier]

Idk make it so if u hit an armor zone it does like 10% less dmg or something, but the plate stays idk

[pearl hound]

obv it's not completely black and white but it needs a lot of fine tuning before it's balanced and still there are ppl that either think it's too fast or slow

[pearl gorge]

What about regenerating a bit of armor after every XP action(kills, assit, healing, revive, ammo, etc) with a delay of 30s? 🤔

[north forum]

🫃make armor purchasable using squad points but squad points need to be reworked since its super inflated and put a cooldown on the purchase @jaunty notch

[fading niche]

i had an idea on armor https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1180345678740865094 its not permanent but you may still have it even after going down

[dapper grotto]

No. That disproportionately benefits better players

[pearl hound]

that's why I say ammo box. You want to play with armor? pick assault or support and just resupply yourself.

[pearl gorge]

Isn't this good? And what do you mean better player? Anyone can revive a friend or stop their bleeding.

[pearl hound]

a sniper or a medic doesn't need the ability to repair its own armor nor should they have it

[jaunty notch]

Please dont use personal insults, you're making me feel attacked.

[void tiger]

why did I have 5 pings hahaha

[north forum]

thats not very nice 🫃

[upbeat schooner]

Snipers getting their armour regened. You've just made me cry.

[jaunty notch]

You are attacking me again, why? Did I hurt your feelings or something?

[dapper grotto]

I think power should be in a pretty much linear relationship with skill.
Not only is this completely arbitrary to armour, but better players simply do more in less time. Which is why they are higher on the leaderboards

[pearl gorge]

Just block the kid

[gilded pier]

The problem with armor regenerating in any way is 2 things.

We still have no way to tell if we still have armor or not, making it a complete non factor, neither does the shooter.
And 2 most people aren't gunna wait around for it to regen and thus becomes pointless anyway

[pearl gorge]

Hmm

[jaunty notch]

Sniper I understand, medic I dont. Is armor just useless for medics or something?

[orchid heath]

wtf this isn't halo

[dapper grotto]

you don't have to "wait around" for it to regen in this example. It is just something that happens as you play

[jaunty notch]

Please be more clear about what youre trying to say.

[pearl gorge]

Well you could just half the armor regen only on medic and sniper tbh

[north forum]

please maintain a civil discussion guys 🙏 @cloud juniper @worthy inlet

[pearl hound]

medics are always full hp and don't have heavy armor available so no it's not useless but not sth they should be able to repair themselves.

[jaunty notch]

I just asked you a simple question. I didnt mean to trigger you, im sorry if i did.

[dapper grotto]

That is not an attack, it's a request for elaboration.

[north forum]

@cloud juniper please explain what you are trying to say

[pearl hound]

if you want medic with armor pick assault

[orchid heath]

Old Chum also makes you explain even after you just explained

[dapper grotto]

Responding with such an irrelevant question is a bit weird tbh

[gilded pier]

So the only way I see it being any better is just get rid of it, or have armor always there

[north forum]

I am someone asking for a proper explanation from you

[dapper grotto]

Having armour always there is a bit tricky but I could find some DR values it would be fair for

[jaunty notch]

@cloud juniper The reason I pinged you is to see if I could hopefully get some explanation as to why you didnt like the idea. I understand now that this was in vain, as you don't seem to have a good one either.

[pearl gorge]

Well armor is already biased toward slow playstyle anyway

[north forum]

Exo users suffer disproportionately due to scuffed armor mechanics

[orchid heath]

Besides, people have already suggested that Assault/Support should get a armour replacement kit

[jaunty notch]

Yeah I think having armor be a permanent damage reduction might be better than regen.

[orchid heath]

which already sounds good enough instead of armour regening?

[north forum]

but you haven't explained it to me. You need to convince me too.

[gilded pier]

Exactly fast player don't care about it and slow players who like exo and such just lose it in a gun fight or 2 and its pointless. Armor is fundamentally flawed.

[jaunty notch]

If you want to share your ideas you need to be able to explain them.

[pearl gorge]

Agree

[jaunty notch]

It's okay if you dont have the words to do it but like its kinda expected in the suggestion threads that you have some reason behind what youre saying

[north forum]

Sorry English is like my fourth language and yes I do have difficulty understanding your intentions. So please explain what this cringe is ?

[jaunty notch]

Could you maybe expand on that a little?

[pearl gorge]

%base reduction but it's more than half the temp HP? And add limb multiplier like 0.9 or something along the lines?

[north forum]

maybe he is deliberate troll who vote X and cannot explain

but you haven't explained why you don't like it ? And how does you liking it or not form the basis of it being to the game ?

[jaunty notch]

Ok @orchid tusk can you do something about this guy? I've tried having a discussion with him and understanding his pov and all he does is attack and insult me.

I'm sorry I pinged you striker, I thought you would have had something more to say than "I dont like it"

[north forum]

He is also insulting my social disability by calling me "special" or something @orchid tusk

[jaunty notch]

No need to ping him twice kata, although I understand why you would

[worthy inlet]

guys read pinned rules in suggestions

[north forum]

I only asked you and nobody else. Who is this "people" ?

[dapper grotto]

if we were to replace armour with damage reduction, then it turns out just going from 0-60% and 0-80% for helmets and chest respectively in increments of 20% for armour type would be pretty much just as protective as armour is right now, but it wouldn't break

[north forum]

See solar gave an astute observation

[dapper grotto]

though medium/heavy armour would be a bit weaker so maybe 45% and 65% respectively instead

[heady surge]

80% reduction tfw

[dapper grotto]

on par with what it is currently

[north forum]

maybe not %80 but limb damage protection

[dapper grotto]

lacking independant health pools makes armour a lot weaker by itself

[north forum]

will this require a full rework ?

of the armor system

[gilded pier]

Woa woa 80% dmg protection is fucking wild, that like 100 hits to kill 😂

Like 15% tops

[dapper grotto]

if you only hit the chest it would be a lot

but people hit the limbs a ton

15% would be significantly weaker than light armour is right now, but for exo

[gilded pier]

Thats totally fine with me

My vote is just remove it entirely.

[jaunty notch]

I think that if armor is damage reduction it should be a little worse than what it currently is, as that would basically just be a buff to armor otherwise

[dapper grotto]

that is a terrible idea for gun balance

and for player specialisation

[jaunty notch]

^

Thats why i dont like that idea

Also I feel like just removing aspects of the game like bleeding and armor is a little short sighted

[dapper grotto]

there are only 8 damage breakpoints against unarmoured players assuming all guns do 20+ damage, and only like 4 of those apply to most weapons

[gilded pier]

Also I don't think 10-15% is much worse thats still and extra hit to kill in most situations. And it doesn't break in one hit, its win win

[dapper grotto]

it is a lot worse. I'll try it with 15% for body and 10% for head and see what difference it makes

[north forum]

I personally think making armor purchasable via squad points after fixing pts and putting a cooldown on the purchase would be nicer

[dapper grotto]

that extends enemy ttks on you by an average of 8.5% according to my assumptions... for 17.5% less speed??? literally worthless

right now exo is about 55%

[gilded pier]

Look at light armor now, 12 hp, 10% off a 30 dmg rifle is roughly the same

[dapper grotto]

Light armour it's not far off, but do not ignore the importance of seperate health pools

they are critical to armour in its current state

[red flame]

Im OK if armor is in support ammo box or other system but big no to armor regenerating

[gilded pier]

90% of people are wearing light or ranger, no separate health pools pls, then this is just tarkov

[north forum]

maybe it can be different resupply box

[dapper grotto]

light armour having 20% damage reduction leads to a ~7% increase in enemy ttks, which is actually lower than the 12hp it gives rn

[north forum]

so that supports can not resupply armor and ammo at the same time and it shouldn't be possible to quick resupply by using right click

[dapper grotto]

well... if we are comparing to current armour then ignoring that would be willfully ignorant of its arguably most important aspect

[jaunty notch]

Does armore in its current state block all damage a bullet does regardless of durability?

[gilded pier]

The part ur neglecting is that u can hit this dmg reduction armor more than once

[dapper grotto]

No, only if its durability is higher than the bullet damage

[dapper grotto]

No I am not??

[heady surge]

just pull out the sheets already

[dapper grotto]

But to have the same impact you need to hit it every time

[jaunty notch]

oh, then why are separate health pools important?

[dapper grotto]

any other scenario it is worse

[gilded pier]

I'm struggling to see how 10% dmg reduction to all shots is less effective than 12 hp one time

[dapper grotto]

consider. You shoot a chestplate that nullifies your gun's damage. It then takes 4 limb shots to kill them.
Now the chestplate instead provides a damage reduction: this time you did most of your damage to them. only 3 limb shots required now

and then the fact that helmet and chest have seperate ones adds on to this, as they can nullify more of the damage than either would intuitively allow

[dapper grotto]

This scenario is modelled over a single gunfight - as in, shoot the player until it dies and record how long it took

well, 20k gunfights run in parallel. But none after the other

20% damage reduction though, which is what I put down for light armour

[gilded pier]

Okay but this is just a random asf number I threw out there, I think it should be roughly equal to what ever we have now

Not much less not anymore

[dapper grotto]

I will compare equal DR with current +hp and see how much of a difference that makes

[red flame]

Wouldnt make them stronger than it is now in the same ammobox itll take tons of time to refill everything

[north forum]

current ammo box then should not quick resupply armor using right click

[jaunty notch]

I really dont like the idea of having armor resupply be reliant on teammates, as that just makes armor obselete for soloplay. I would be fine with pretty much any non-tedius way of replenishing armor. That's why I suggested regen.

[dapper grotto]

here are the proposed ttk extensions from new and old armour according to what you suggested here. As you can see, for exo armour it reduces its impact to less than half of what it is now (closer to a third) in exchange for longevity.

(assuming 50% limb shot, 17.1% headshot, 32.9% body shot chances)

[gilded pier]

That sounds fine to me.

It shouldn't be more effective than what we have now, it needs trade off

[dapper grotto]

It would be between half as good and a third as good, imo really not worth it possibly lasting longer

it has tradeoff. movement speed

armour is pretty universally not seen as meta mainly because it slows you down

[red flame]

Idk armor is pretty annoying some times so I dont mind having to get a supply ammo or specific stuff

Perma exo armor on support zzzzzzzz

Their weapons get buffed I prefer to up them to other movespeed and dont have to deal again with the exo helmet

[gilded pier]

It would be meta if u got perm 50% dmg reduction like u said

[red flame]

What

[gilded pier]

That is my point of trade off, it would just be a no brainer to pick that

[dapper grotto]

Not sure about that

Right now it is un-meta so would need a big buff to be meta

[red flame]

50% perma reduction?

You're clueless

[dapper grotto]

I would probably have it a bit lower though

[red flame]

Lets x2 ttk on a class good idea

[dapper grotto]

1.5x

and we already have that

it just doesn't last forever

[red flame]

Nah 50% dmg reduction is 2x

[dapper grotto]

50% ttk extension

that is how I phrase it

[gilded pier]

No its 2x bro

[red flame]

Nope

[dapper grotto]

What

[red flame]

Solar you're clueless

[dapper grotto]

I am literally the one who got these numbers

why are you guys telling me they're something they aren't

[red flame]

Dude we have 100hp youll need 200 to do 100

Are you dent

[gilded pier]

Divide anything by 50% and its 2x as much

[dapper grotto]

I have no idea what you are talking about

[gilded pier]

Thats how math works

[dapper grotto]

I am not dividing anything

[red flame]

[dapper grotto]

The values I gave are the average ttk extension

if you interpret that as damage reduction that is not on me

[red flame]

... Zzzzz learn to read maybe

[red flame]

Read that twice Solar

Always pushing on others faults

League of legends syndrom

[dapper grotto]

I implicitly converted that while reading to assume they meant the same thing i was talking about

since they were citing the ttk extension values

sorry if that was wrong

[red flame]

I dont want having ttk extension on a class on a fps

Its complete bs

[dapper grotto]

It's a choice of player specialisation.

and not without tradeoff

[red flame]

Its bad gamedesign

[dapper grotto]

Why?

[red flame]

Again you dont play enough fps to understand that point

[dapper grotto]

Giving more control to the players on how they want to play at base is a good thing

[red flame]

A fps is a game where you can kill already tons of people if you know how to aim. Giving x2 or even 1.5 ttk on a guy doing that is just kebab balance

[gilded pier]

This is why armor should be removed, but if its made to not degrade and give dmg reduction it should only add one bullet to ttk, like it does now

Barring exo exo can take a few to the chest

[dapper grotto]

how many bullets it adds depends on the gun and combinations of hit locations

[red flame]

I think we should be able to repair

[fallow hinge]

Ttk can be considered as the foundation in fps design？

[jaunty notch]

do you think armor should be removed?

[red flame]

Its a base mechanic ye

[dapper grotto]

without downside then sure, but exo is not meta for a reason

[red flame]

On chest no on helmet maybe

[dapper grotto]

why just helmet?

[jaunty notch]

in that case i think yo udont understand what solar is saying

[red flame]

Im not again normal helmet tho only exo because that nerf SR (SR needs a nerf in an other why imo)

We need consistency

[jaunty notch]

This doesnt make any sense if you think armor has any place in this game as it currently stands

[red flame]

As i said with repair availaible its good

[orchid heath]

Old Chum clearly wants this game to turn into something its not

[dapper grotto]

support being helped so much by bipods and being slower gives SRs an implicit buff against them anyway. Even with exo helm I would say support is the most vulnerable class to snipers except maybe other snipers

[red flame]

Bipod is still not meta Solar

Its playable but not meta far from that

[jaunty notch]

Its still a contradiction. Right now armor serves as a ttk multiplier, i dont know why you dont have a problem with it now but would if it was just damage reduction.

[dapper grotto]

It has decent base stats and is very powerful when deployed

[red flame]

Because you can lost it and not being able to tank on every side of your body

[orchid heath]

I think bipod is good for those that use support in a very very defensive way

[red flame]

Not very powerfull its good but you dont move and the bipod in this game is clunky way more than on any BF

[red flame]

Exactly

[orchid heath]

Maybe once you're able to deploy it on windows and it being less clunky only then I will perhaps start using it (as a support main myself)

[dapper grotto]

30% less H recoil and 30% less V recoil is insanely good compared to most attachments which are more like: +5% of one and -6% the other

[red flame]

Remove armor and give movespeed on support or give them possibility to repair I dont see more solutions to be balanced

[dapper grotto]

if they are currently unbalanced, are they too strong or too weak?

[fallow hinge]

The current bipod is much better than before

[gilded pier]

This is my gripe, I don't know at a glace if a guy has light, normal, heavy, or any armor at all. And ttk should be consistent imo

[orchid heath]

The "too weak" part of the complaint are those who haven't really mastered the class yet

I don't know how these people use the class cause its definitely not "weak"

[dapper grotto]

Would you significantly alter your playstyle based on that information?

[gilded pier]

Shit you don't even know if a guy really has exo or not, it could be shot off and he still wearing it

[dapper grotto]

if it's shot off it doesn't matter

[gilded pier]

Yea it does matter, then I can more comfortably aim at center mass if I knew we didn't have it

🧠

[red flame]

Support is weaker than medic but in exhchange the first time you fight you can have 1v1 advantage since everyone aims for head specially in cqb where youve to manage multiple enemies

[dapper grotto]

if it's shot off it doesn't affect your ttk.

[gilded pier]

But it does in a round about way cuz I don't have to aim for the legs, which can be more difficult especially if he's proned

[red flame]

Yeah its inconsistent

Thats why its bad

[gilded pier]

^ this

[dapper grotto]

So, I am reading that ideally armour should not affect where it is most practical to aim?

That is fair

[gilded pier]

Not necessarily, it would be better to not shoot armor obviously, but at least if i see an exo support he actually has exo

Leading to a more consistent experience

[red flame]

Just put repair and its fixed imo

But still exo shouldnt tank SR in head

[dapper grotto]

exo is pretty obvious, it's a lot bulkier than the others and the helmet is very clear to see

[gilded pier]

No that doesn't fix it really cuz he might not have done it yet or doesn't have the supply or w.e

[still tusk]

🤨

[orchid heath]

m200 can one shot Exo helmet

[still tusk]

That's the only good thing about exo

[dapper grotto]

definitely should. It's the least mobile class that does best while holding down an area

[dapper grotto]

No it can't

it could with barrel attachments but they no longer affect damage

[red flame]

Not anymore friend

It was LB ranger heavy that got changed

[orchid heath]

oo okay thats fine

its only 1 shot anyways

just gotta aim for head again

[red flame]

2 with exo helmet

[gilded pier]

I know thats my point

[red flame]

The dent is big

[gilded pier]

Don't bother with old Joe here, he has the rot

[pearl gorge]

you could just bump the HS multiplier for Sniper instead of nerfing exo helmet tho

[gilded pier]

Could and should

There is a reason everyone liked the m200, bouncing a headshot just doesn't feel good

[pearl gorge]

Well, sniper are a separate issue anyway, they need a whole rework stats wise.

[dapper grotto]

Consider: support players do not enjoy being on the receiving end of it

which happens a lot since they are slow

[pearl gorge]

consider: no one likes to be on the receiving ends of sniper

[dapper grotto]

for support players it is a significantly bigger issue

they are not speedy cqc medics

[gilded pier]

I'm sure everytime they dinked a sniper round off their face they were giggling

[pearl gorge]

then reduce speed downside on exo helmet

[red flame]

Its not that much tbh

80% kills are on static target I can bet on that

[orchid heath]

support is already slow enough...

[red flame]

Nerf exo helmet and buff ms

[orchid heath]

plus the ADS slowness of support

[pearl gorge]

I'm saying, "reduce speed downside " SO more movementspeed for exo helmet.

[gilded pier]

He said reduce the downsides, meaning make them faster doorknob

[dapper grotto]

snipers rarely kill me as assault. But as support it's pretty common, since firing for extended periods of time and having a much harder time moving evasively just leaves you more vulnerable

[orchid heath]

so you want support to be faster?

[red flame]

Because you dont have the same gameplay

Again check whats you'ee doing on support and on assault

[dapper grotto]

Yes, which cannot be ignored. the classes play differently

[pearl gorge]

I want support to gain something out of loosing the anti OS sniper of the exo helmet

[red flame]

Not at all

[dapper grotto]

???

[red flame]

Its not league

[dapper grotto]

it is not as though every class is the same

LMGs + exo used like smgs + light would not work

[red flame]

It does

You just dont do it

[dapper grotto]

I do when I have to

[red flame]

Especially with the last update

[dapper grotto]

It is just not very effective as you are easy to outmanouvre

[pearl gorge]

What about: Inge can repair armor of people(not his own) with the engi repair toolkit. And Assault and Support can drop "armor box" that are on the same gadget than ammo box.

[gilded pier]

I do it nothing like pushing and room brooming with a 249

[red flame]

Do you scream while doing it?

[gilded pier]

Ya and I don't let go of the trigger untill I'm dead or click

[dapper grotto]

being slow does just make you a lot more vulnerable to snipers regardless of playstyle though

[pearl gorge]

This way: Recon doesn't have way to auto repair armor, except if a friendly drop a box, but then if they die, it disappears. Medic can't too. And it's still available with multiple class.

I do think that making more break like the "bandage" for bleeding/healing it's still good.

[gilded pier]

Just don't run ina straight line thru a field or sit still in a window, I rarely die to snipes no matter what clas I'm on

[red flame]

Not really 90% of my death from snipers are when I'm aiming or not moving

[dapper grotto]

you tend to aim a lot when you're in a position to get lots of kills

[red flame]

Most snipers in this game are noob they dont know how to shoot on moving targets

Even prestige guys

[pearl gorge]

Well support is also the class that like chokepoint, camping windows, and using bipod. So being immobile is part of gameplay.

[red flame]

It can

Not forced to

[pearl gorge]

If bipod weren't as clunky, might be less immobile tho.

[red flame]

If you choose a good spot no sniper can shoot you

[fallow hinge]

true

[pearl gorge]

You can also build construction

[dapper grotto]

bipod working while moving would make literally no sense

[gilded pier]

If u use bipod on any support gun u are fucking up imo and most choke point are sniper free so whats the problem

[red flame]

You dont get it

[dapper grotto]

get what

[red flame]

Read again

[pearl gorge]

that's not my point. My point is it's junky af. Sometimes you have it, some time you don't. If you don't move and there's a surface near you, it should just work.

[dapper grotto]

It's pretty reliable on ultimax in my experience

[red flame]

Nah

[gilded pier]

I have never picked a support gun and been like "man I really need less recoil"

[dapper grotto]

it literally is just dependant on where the bipod is

[red flame]

Its bugged on most textures

Goes on goes out

[dapper grotto]

textures?

what have textures got to do with anything

[red flame]

Yep stone props ect

[pearl gorge]

Again, the benefit are good, it's just not clean to attach.

[dapper grotto]

so objects

[red flame]

Playing with words arent you

[dapper grotto]

?

you said textures, what was I supposed to think

[red flame]

Its clunky thats the problem

[pearl gorge]

The problem is: Bipod is not easy to place/stay/attach/consistent.

[dapper grotto]

I haven't had any experience with the bipods not doing what they should be except for on the rpk. I could just not get it to work on that gun

[red flame]

Often you're too much on the edge or not enough

[gilded pier]

You self exposed why u die to snipers a lot on support, u sit still with a bipod ultimax, the support gun with 0 recoil

[red flame]

Haha ye

[pearl gorge]

You don't bipod on ultimax 💀

[red flame]

Ultimax is beam without bipod

[dapper grotto]

gets about twice as beamy with it

[red flame]

Certenly why it didnt get buffed

On the lmg lsw update

[red flame]

Doesnt make sense

[gilded pier]

0 x 2 is still 0, this guy don't maths well

[dapper grotto]

if they're like 200m away it will take a lot longer to kill them without a bipod than with it

[dapper grotto]

it is not 0

[red flame]

?

[dapper grotto]

especially if they're in a window or something

[pearl gorge]

you aren't supposed to kill people over200m with a LMG

[red flame]

You want me to show you?

[dapper grotto]

I have a couple thousand kills with the weapon so I think I know?

[dapper grotto]

Well, this one is certainly capable of it

[gilded pier]

I fucking lazered people with that thing over 200m no bipod and I used that gun like 2 times

[red flame]

I mean I killed people at 300m with red dot m249 with old bipod

So.. ultimax

[gilded pier]

I done it no bipod lol, m249 is bae

[red flame]

Yeah it was for flexing btw you dont shoot at 300m with red dot m2

[dapper grotto]

M249 has quite a lot of horizontal recoil

[red flame]

Negate it

[dapper grotto]

That is not possible

(Without a reaction time a lot shorter than any person I’ve heard of has, at least)

[gilded pier]

It literally doesn't matter, you have 200 round box mags ,hold the trigger, you'll get em

[red flame]

That is FH is more broken rn that it never been? Be?

[dapper grotto]

They can move

You have limited time

Also why I use bipod on ultimax. So you can kill them before they realise they’re being shot even at long range

[red flame]

If they dont have cover you can trace him

[gilded pier]

Okay thats grand, but thats still why ur getting clapped as support

[dapper grotto]

Sadly the battlebit maps are not flat planes so there tends to be a lot of potential cover between you and them

[dapper grotto]

I do pretty well as it

Just less so against snipers than other classes

[gilded pier]

My point exactly, cuz ur sitting still, snipers like that

🧠

[dapper grotto]

The class incentivises that, so yes, you move less.

But we already established that

[gilded pier]

Does it? Cuz I see walking tank with 200 round mags

[dapper grotto]

The mag size is most of the reason

[gilded pier]

Not sit and spray with bipod

[dapper grotto]

You don’t have to constantly go in and out of cover to reload

So you just shoot until there are no enemies left

[red flame]

You can only do that if youve the opportunity or fast aim most of the time you kill 1 or 2 and hide

If I see a guy from afar shooting non stop ill just tap his head

[pearl gorge]

anyway, this ain't the right thread.

[red flame]

But playing ballzy made you play better imo

[pearl gorge]

💀

[dapper grotto]

If there are multiple people shooting back at you then yes you probably won’t get many, but that’s not a given. Often you can sit in one place and farm like 20 people as they don’t have a collective memory of where you are

[red flame]

20?

[dapper grotto]

Invasion gamemode has super high player density so that has become much less rare now :)

[red flame]

I think it's more because of free weekends

Full noobs running everywhere

[dapper grotto]

Possible

most people are always noobs though

[red flame]

But ye no to armor regeneration super bad idea

[gilded pier]

I don't think support incentivises you to move any less than other classes, thats a personal thing. I'm just as aggressive with it as others barring recon

[dapper grotto]

Even before the free weekend it’s like the top 10% of the leaderboard who actually do somewhat decently with a couple doing really well

[dapper grotto]

Moving more slowly is a unignorable incentive

Having larger mags is ignorable but that’s why the guns are good

[gilded pier]

Do the tho? The can use normal armor and fal short mag

Thats like 1.05 movespeed

[dapper grotto]

Then you’re just a slightly worse version of assault

[gilded pier]

True

[dapper grotto]

No point playing support if you aren’t using its main features

Building becomes a lot less important in a CQC aggressive playstyle also

[gilded pier]

Then why did they add them 💀

[dapper grotto]

Idk tbh

But you can go exo FAL with an extended mag which is a real juggernaut build

Not that practical I don’t think. But kinda cool

[gilded pier]

Also moving slower doest equate to move less, again thats just a personal thing

[dapper grotto]

It correlates strongly.

[gilded pier]

I never stop moving on support, which is why didn't mind m200 one tapping exo

[dapper grotto]

(Assuming “move less” refers to distance travelled)

[gilded pier]

It doesn't refer to distance traveled i said u get clapped by snipers cuz u sit still. And u proved that u sit still, cuz u bipod.

Try my way of support, just w key in close quarters and u won't even notice snipers

Thats the argument, not how far they travel

[red flame]

No exo tanking SR all SR under 1200 velocity with canon attachment

[still tusk]

Haha, M249 goes brrr

[gilded pier]

Still want that pkm in the game files

[dapper grotto]

I use assault for that role

It just works better

Generally I switch between assault and support frequently based on where I’m spawning in and where the enemies seem to be

[still tusk]

Hopefully, we will get it soon

[sterile sleet]

Just shoot them in the head, eliminate the guesswork

[patent lantern]

I think the only way I see armor repair stations being interesting is if they are located inside Point buildings and are sacked when it collapses. Would probably add a nice way for defenders to at least keep an edge given how the point being contested means less reinforcements.

Otherwise you just end up with armor being a 2nd health bar on everyone instead of being a oneoff lifesaver (and even with the repair station idea you kind of end up with that eitherway)

[neon badge]

xD

[heady surge]

Fuck you hits arm anyway

[pearl gorge]

@jaunty notch I think armor regeneration would be good, if the time/delay for regen is tied to the health pool of the armor. So that light armor regen fast with less delay, and heavy armor takes more time.

[dapper grotto]

That would be a relative buff to lighter armour. I don’t think that is needed assuming they remain relatively the same strength

[late idol]

i think the support could replenish armor

he couldn't carry many plates, but at least a few

[pearl gorge]

Body armour regen could be this way :

• Light/Ranger : 12HP | 0.5s delay, 0.5s to full (1s total) => 12 armour in 1s
• Medium/normal : 25HP | 0.5s delay, 2s to full (2.5s total) => 10 armour in 1s
• Heavy : 43HP | 1s delay, 4.5s to full (5.5s total) => 7.81 armour in 1s
• Exo : 62HP | 2s delay, 8s to full (total 10s) => 6.2 armour in 1s

Helmet armour regen could be this way :

• Normal : 12HP | 0.5s delay, 0.5s to full (1s total) => 12 armour in 1s
• Heavy : 25HP | 0.5s delay, 2s to full (2.5s total) => 10 armour in 1s
• Exo : 37HP | 2s delay, 4s to full (6s Total) => 6.2 armour in 1s.

I would also:

• Add a clear HUD telling you if: Armour is on delay, regenerating or broken.
• Keep the downsides of existing armour, even when broken.
• Any damage dealt to the user, instantly stop regen and reset delay, and put both, armour and helmet on delay.

The goals are :

• Make armour more consistent while you survive through fights.
• Avoid unnecessary actions/movement in order to not burden/overwhelm the player.
• Smaller armour = better suited for multiple shorts fights.
• Bigger armour = better suited for single long fight.
• Keeping the current balance of TTK.

All this stats are just here for example, and could/should be modified by the devs/community at wish in order to better fit the current meta.

(For the Exo helmet Sniper HS problem : I would just either increase the HS multiplier on Sniper, or just boost the damage of snipers. They obviously need a stat rework anyway)

[dapper grotto]

Personally I think those delays are very low. Light players get full armour back in a second? That’s almost instant

Maybe varying from 10-30 seconds would be more sensible imo

[late idol]

the regeneration cooldown should also be reset if you take damage from projectiles
otherwise you might be 1 bullet from killing someone and BAM! he's got a new helmet and you're dead

[main bramble]

Pain in the butt delay that's completely out of proportion with the speed of every other thing in this game

[dapper grotto]

Idk about you but I’m not entering a gunfight every second

[late idol]

you're not playing invasion?

[dapper grotto]

Right now the delay is infinite so I can hardly see how this could be a pain

[main bramble]

Get good I guess

[late idol]

he's got a point

[dapper grotto]

It’s true that I have under 60kpm

[pearl gorge]

changed ty

[dapper grotto]

(To be clear, this is because the guy I replied to said light armour should be fully repaired within 1 second of it taking damage)

Making the delay longer for heavier armour types is fine as long as those armour types are buffed to keep it balanced, though I think 6 seconds is too short for exo to be balanced at all. Staying behind cover for 6 seconds is nothing if it means being highly durable again

[main bramble]

Sounds like the Payday system

Anyway, self-regenerating armor is bad because it makes any long range engagements pointless. And I say this as someone who loves sitting for minutes at a time in the same spot with my bipod.

[late idol]

but what about the idea of supports holding plates?

[pearl gorge]

I don't think so. Sniper would still OS. And I think DMR are still in a good place to kill them.

[main bramble]

Exo helmet?

[pearl gorge]

Moreover, Recon doesn't have access to big armors.

[late idol]

you could replace your team-mates places, like half of them
or event better: every time you replace the armor plates, they become less and less effective (decreasing the max armor)

[pearl gorge]

"(For the Exo helmet Sniper HS problem : I would just either increase the HS multiplier on Sniper, or just boost the damage of snipers. They obviously need a stat rework anyway) "

[main bramble]

I don't want more items and interactions to keep track off

[dapper grotto]

The delays on armour regeneration would need to not just be balanced around CQC fights, which is part of the reason I would be so opposed to such tiny delays

[pearl gorge]

which is why regen is the go

[late idol]

it's the same interaction as filling ammo

[main bramble]

Then I'd rather keep an exo helmet that's actually useful

[dapper grotto]

Armour regeneration should be a thing that happens outside of fights

[pearl gorge]

it's still useful tho

[dapper grotto]

Not in a brief respite

[main bramble]

Not for anything I would care about

If it can't take a sniper headshot then I might as well go with the lightest build

[dapper grotto]

Eh. It’s not good for the movement speed penalty it gives, outside of specifically countering snipers

[main bramble]

Speed is the best source of survivability

[dapper grotto]

Exo helmet is exclusively viable when you’re not moving

[pearl gorge]

armour with regen would be good enough to help you in mid range/short fight

[main bramble]

Permanent %DR introduces exactly zero new mechanics, no timer or plates to keep track of

[dapper grotto]

It would just extend them. Both players would be regenning their armour

[pearl gorge]

permanent %DR has the biggest problem of hitbox

[dapper grotto]

Why’s this a problem?

[pearl gorge]

The current way, character hitbox/size etc are. You don't hit body armour that much but the limbs. But this is negated by the fact that Armour doesn't need to tank every shot, but only one shot to be usefull.

[main bramble]

Yes, that's a problem, which I would simply be deal with by removing that hitbox silliness and making it apply everywhere below the neck for body armor and everywhere on the head for all helmets

[dapper grotto]

We can account for that, but it leads to a much bigger imbalance between limb ttk and body ttk

So limb damage modifiers are kinda needed

[pearl gorge]

If you have for example. 30% DR on exo armour. To make the most out of it, you'd need to have all the bullet go through. Except. You'll hit either limbs or Headshot way more. Because they are more visible/in front of body armour.

[pearl gorge]

Then you'd be removing mechanic of having specific hitbox for armour and having the choice to hit limbs or armour. Therefore making armour something you're obligated to interact with.

[dapper grotto]

Might not be a bad thing.

[main bramble]

Good. That's the whole point of it.

[pearl gorge]

Armour is there to protect vitals, not to make you a whole tank.

[main bramble]

I don't want to be slow as hell just on the off chance my enemies are bad enough to not know hitboxes

All that system achieves is increasing the gap between noobs and vets for no good reason

[red flame]

That system seems interesting even if imo armour shouldnt regen. Maybe stealing the armour of an ennemy after killing it, avoiding dude staying at range and constantly repairing back its armour

[dapper grotto]

It being bypassable means its usefulness is heavily dependant on the skill of the enemy you fight, and also just luck. So, effectively random. Which is unsatisfying

[late idol]

i'm very satisfied when i skill check someone and they lose

just saying

[dapper grotto]

What’s that got to do with armour

[late idol]

that it's very satisfying to get out of the situation because i got lucky

[dapper grotto]

Ah

Can’t argue with that. But I would prefer reliability.

[pearl gorge]

it always come back to the game has identity crisis. And need to decide between milsim HP armour with hitbox and full armour with Damage reduction

[dapper grotto]

No it doesn’t.

It’s fun as is

Though the HP armour thing isn’t exactly a milsim thing, considering that’s just not how it works

[pearl gorge]

Oki should just do a month poll. With: Armor damage reduction full body no durability VS Current system VS A way to regen Armour.

[red flame]

y

[sterile sleet]

[pearl gorge]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1181241121179975720 did this for now

We'll know how many people wants what at least

[fading niche]

i love what you did there

[pearl gorge]

thank you

I don't think i'll help that much. But my goal is for the dev team to notice that, and do a bigger poll tbh xd

I'd like something akin to a month poll with everyone pinged. And it being worded properly with possible choices :d

[jaunty notch]

I think the problem with this idea is it would be pretty hard to balance for every playstyle. I agree that 1 second to full is a bit much, but 10-30 seconds also sounds like ages to me

[dapper grotto]

For exo it needs to be long. Otherwise you’re able to tank an insane amount at minimal cost in the way you play

10 seconds downtime between fights is not a long time though on the lower end.

[jaunty notch]

The idea I had in mind was regen would only start after a certain time not taking damage

Honestly I dont really care how it happens but I think pretty much everyone agrees armor needs to be replenishable in some way. I suggest regen because it doesnt add another tedious thing you have to do after fights along with bandaging, and it doesnt force you to rely on your teammates

[main bramble]

It is long enough for anything in CQC

[main bramble]

The whole downside of bieng slow means you can get more easily pushed so your armor doesn't have time to regen

[dapper grotto]

Long enough as in sufficient, or should be shorter?

[main bramble]

If any damage stops regen even just spamming flashbangs would disable it permanently in any moderately sized fight

[main bramble]

10 feels just about right

[heady surge]

Use in combat check because thats totally consistent and not stupid /s

[dapper grotto]

A lot of the time you’re not in close range, but I am concerned that exo would be too strong if it regenerated as quickly as less impactful armours, simply because the affect it would have on your performance in many scenarios might be disproportionately high.

Right now the general consensus seems to be that a fully intact exo suit is better than lighter armours, offset by that it has strong downsides when broken unlike lighter armour types where it makes a much smaller difference

[main bramble]

Before even implementing any regen I would honestly just make armor work properly and cover the whole body

Until that isn't done then its actual effectiveness is completely situational and highly dependent on player skill

[jaunty notch]

That only fixes a small portion of armor's inconsistency.

[main bramble]

Sure, but it removes one axis of variability that will make it easier to assess how to further tweak the system when regen is added

[heady surge]

It fixes the main consistency issue tho

[jaunty notch]

I guess for the shooter but not for the one wearing the armor

[heady surge]

Pretty much

[red flame]

It'll still add inconsistency between players, that's why I do think armor should be just "more weak" to have more movespeed in general and maybe the possibity to repair it, it's ok to have 1 more bullet or like 10, 20% more ttk on auto weapoin but having 1 more bullet on SR is litteraly 1s+

[main bramble]

I don't mind reworking the M200 to be the guaranteed headshot killer

[heady surge]

Thats because armors doing its job not because it got fuckin bypassed

[fallow hinge]

Yes, this afternoon in the game, I used m110 to shoot support soldiers at close range, and it wasn't until four bullets were sent away that I sent them away

If it weren't for him turning his back to me and lying there rescuing his teammates.

The last 4 seconds are enough for me to see God several times

[fickle hornet]

I don't think this is well suited. It will make the game too arcadey, individual fights won't make a difference anymore and it will further make good player more unkillable.

It is something satisfying about winning duels after duels and you slowly become weaker and weaker. Like this, surviving more will feel like an actual achievement. Just like running out of ammo completely. After all what do you want? 80 0 score each game?

[dapper grotto]

yes

[oak condor]

"You slowly become weaker"

So as a consequence of having won many dules I deserve to lose one to a worse player because ??? I won too many?

And since when Is running out of ammo an achievement it happens all the time and is a massive annoyance since you can't keep killing without it?

[sterile sleet]

I don't have a issue with it normally, just means I need to play cover better from fight to fight which just makes 10+ streaks feel more rewarding. For heavier armors though that shit isn't applicable

[devout summit]

make more sense for support to have an armor box or something

[fickle hornet]

As a consequence of winning many duels while getting damaged. If you are so much better than other players you can easily win duels without getting a single hit 👍

[oak condor]

get a grip

[dapper grotto]

Nobody is so skilled as to be immortal. They will get hit throughout their life at many points. Since a more skilled player is more likely to survive fights in which they do get shot, and they must get shot before dying, this logic is completely backwards.

[fickle hornet]

If you see an enemy you can always hide in order to flank. When you do that you win the duel without getting hit. And depending on how well you know the map you can outplay the entire team.

[dapper grotto]

That does not change anything

you will still die eventually

[zealous mantle]

im sorry are you suggesting we balance around this hypothetical person who can outplay the entire team and not get hit once or

[dapper grotto]

Assume you will die. What varies with skill, that is relevant to this topic, is how many shots you will take before you die. Worst case scenario (low skill), you die in the first fight and so have the lowest possible number of hits on you. Armour will be the most effective as it will act upon the highest portion of those hits.
If you survive a fight, you either took no hits or n hits (n>=1). Therefore you must on average have taken more hits the more fights you win

So armour is less useful as the player performs better.

[strange galleon]

i read some in here and overall the opinion seems like, no we dont want armor regenerate.

that kinda reminds me of Rainbow6 Siege Blackbeard with his Rifle Shield.
(was super broken, but was heavily nerfed because of the potential he winning every peak fight)

and him winning in a Competitive shooter with one life per Match is bad and got "balanced" but in something like Battlebit Remastered™, there should be something for armor to be Fresh on the line after several fire fights