Armor Rework Idea

[rocky ivy]

The idea is to give armor damage reduction and give armor a little bit of durability and also make players survive a little bit armor will also cover limbs just like how apex or fortnite for consistency. Basically armor will still have its own hp. the idea came from CS. So if a player is wearing lets say exo armor according to the image it has 12% damage reduction so if the player used an UMP vs the player with exo 4.08 damage goes to the armor the rest of the damage which is 29.92 goes to the the players hp. the ideas still needs some more polishing so it can be better. damage reduction isnt final needs some tweaking.

[rocky ivy]

people in suggestion and other feedback wants general damage reduction so not include weapon type

[rocky ivy]

since the armor will tank a portion of the damage i think armor hp should be increased a few bit but thats just me.

[crisp cloak]

I have found that % reductions of around:
light: 20%
medium: 45%
heavy: 65%
exo: 80%

(and -20% from all for helmets)

Would make armour approximately equal in strength to how it is right now, except with longevity to cover multiple fights where it takes hit. These values are just for reference

[fast sonnet]

No, bad idea

[crisp cloak]

It isn’t an idea

It’s reference values

I was just providing a base point where durability would be about the same compared to current armour

[fast sonnet]

"The idea is to give armor damage reduction and give armor a little bit of durability"

=> no, bad idea

1st Devs will have to think all over again the ttk 2nd put inconsistency in gameplay because of differents parts, 3rd having dmg reduction with multiple shots will put even more inconsistency

[crisp cloak]

I don’t think these values would affect gun balance significantly

Oh nvm you were referring to the OP

This would be more “consistent” though in that the impact armour will have on you will be more predictable

[fast sonnet]

"exo 80%" " don’t think these values would affect gun balance significantly"

Solar for real

[fallen pendant]

exo 80% reduction = 5 times more bullets. Instead of 3 shots gun it's 15 shotkill gun

[fiery flare]

waht shotgun?

[fast sonnet]

I'm fuckin done

[fiery flare]

im beinf a smart ass

[icy totem]

80% dmg reduction on exo is not on par with what we have now, if it was id kms

[fast sonnet]

you're the real one

show them

[icy totem]

Just remove armor fr, this is like the 5th "armor rework" post this week.

No one likes it, get rid of it

[fast sonnet]

I mean medium armor is pretty fine I think, just put a repair something

[fallen pendant]

It's normal, Armor is coregameplay. So modifying core balance is extremely hard/tight.

[icy totem]

Medium armor is the worst one one, its provides little to no benefit over light or ranger with worse downsides

Its light/ranger or exo, everything else is useless

[paper lake]

• Remove Armor
• Make them cosmetics

Done, problem solved

[fast sonnet]

it can provides 1 bullet~ in chest

I think it's fine like that

[icy totem]

So can light?

[fast sonnet]

not the same amount, check breakpoint

[crisp cloak]

only on pure bodyshots, which is not what happens

[icy totem]

Ya 24 vs 12 its the same 1 bullet on almost all weapons

[fast sonnet]

armor negate not all the bullet dmg it -dmg

[fast sonnet]

many pdw/smg goes on 110dmg not on 125+

[icy totem]

Thats where ur wrong it bleed thru

[crisp cloak]

it would be identical with the current distribution of hit locations I assume

[fast sonnet]

that's what I said

[crisp cloak]

well, close

off by a couple of % for each armour type

[icy totem]

Oh mb

If I shoot u in the chest with a 30 dmg weapon, 12 hp doesn't make a difference

Light is just as effective as medium amor ttk wise.

[crisp cloak]

assuming every bullet hits the same spot for that specific gun

[icy totem]

Tho it does get an extra nade which is nice

[icy totem]

Bro wtf are u talking about its gunna break and it doesn't matter

Medium and light are both stopping one bullet

[fast sonnet]

again, put repairing on armor could be great, just remove helmet exo armor, buff support speed, problem solved

there's like 2% of the class to changed to be good

no needs to add 20 different mechanics

[crisp cloak]

that... does matter

the health pool, torso health pool and helmet health pool are not independant

[icy totem]

Nobody is talking about that but u

[crisp cloak]

what is the significance of that?

if people are gonna ignore important info that's on them

[icy totem]

Im talking about how light armor and med armor both get shredded in one bullet to almost every gun. Not independent limb health pools, this isn't tarkov

[crisp cloak]

what has tarkov got to do with it

[icy totem]

What does anything u saying have to do with anything

[fast sonnet]

Den, Solar is on speedrun to get block by 80% of the server, it's fine

"argumentativness"

[crisp cloak]

I am talking about the game?

[icy totem]

holy fk bro left his brain at the door

[crisp cloak]

I don't know what point you are making.

[icy totem]

Clearly.

[icy totem]

Also yes they? Armor and helmets can break independently, and are separate hp from ur character hp so idk even know wtf u are talking about.

[crisp cloak]

I mean in that one affects the other.

I am surprised I'd even need to mention that

if the chestplate breaks that does not mean the stk is fixed if the helmet still exists

[icy totem]

Huhhhh are u okay bro? Ofc they affect each other, its additive on ur hp

[crisp cloak]

which means the are not independant....

for two events to be independant requires them to not affect the other at all

[icy totem]

But they are cuz u can restore hp but not armor. If I spawn with a ranger vest I have 112 hp on my chest. I get shot in the chest and heal, now I have 100 hp on my chest

Its independent

[crisp cloak]

It has to be independent in every scenario for it to be independent

not in at least one

[icy totem]

Bro u make 0 sense, drink some coffee or something

[crisp cloak]

for ttk purposes healing is generally ignored

[icy totem]

Ya and all ttk charts assume all shots land on the same part with perfect accuracy, so what is ur point?

[crisp cloak]

Well, I can say for certainty that's false since mine does not

[icy totem]

Then ur ttk charts suck and don't have any comparison to the 100s that have been made

[crisp cloak]

If most charts will ignore important information about gun TTKs that is not my concern, aside from that it will lead to people having less accurate ideas about them.

[fluid bridge]

80% damage reduction 💀

[crisp cloak]

Yeah

[fluid bridge]

do you want the base ttk of the game to be 5 seconds or something

cause that will do it

[crisp cloak]

No

[fast sonnet]

Mango

[crisp cloak]

It would keep them the same

[fast sonnet]

he's an uber troll, take care

[crisp cloak]

The point is those values would lead to armour retaining their current levels of protection

It sounds unintuitive but it’s fairly simple mathematically

It would make armour a lot stronger if you only hit the armour.

But people hit limbs a lot

[fluid bridge]

so im assuming armour wouldnt be able to be broken

its just a constant reduction?

[crisp cloak]

Yeah, so that would be a buff and I was not suggesting that is what we use

I was just providing it as a reference to build a proper proposition from

[fluid bridge]

i mean sure

that makes sense

the current armour system is pretty ass

id be fine with constant damage reduction

[crisp cloak]

Thing is, it would create a bigger divide between ttk on limbs/face and ttk on armour

[fluid bridge]

the numbers would need a lot of tweaking tho

[crisp cloak]

So in that sense it might feel unreliable

[fluid bridge]

limb damage multipliers

waa suggested that before they got yeeted

[crisp cloak]

That would help make it more consistent

Would make that 80% value reduce quite a bit I expect. To keep it on average the same

[fluid bridge]

i would like armour ttk to stay the same preferably

except rebalancing heavy and medium cause they are kinda trash

[crisp cloak]

Exo is slightly more durable per % movement reduction but heavy does have a lot of mags, so that’s something

[fluid bridge]

meh

medium is prety bad

honestly so is light

not much reason to use it over ranger

[crisp cloak]

Medium is ok imo

It’s hard to quantify how good it is

Durability/move speed is a crude value and leads to light armour dividing by zero

[fluid bridge]

btw im just curious

how did you come to the conclusion that 80% damage reduction is equivelant to what we have on exo rn

[crisp cloak]

Light and medium are both just better than ranger for assault imo as with assault ammo kit you don’t need it

[fluid bridge]

80% is a fucklng lot

[crisp cloak]

Tweaked my ttk calculator to make armour damage % reduction based, tried some values and I found these ones yielded almost the same ttk extensions as the current armour does.

[fluid bridge]

Light armour is literally 2 magazines

Kinda useless

[crisp cloak]

(This might change a lot if I put in a lower limb shot chance. It’s at 50% right now based on community opinion)

[icy totem]

Everyone who looks at ttk charts know its theoretical

[crisp cloak]

Is that supposed to be a justification for using worse ttk values?

There’s no advantage to that.

The entire point of ttk is to help understand how good weapons are. If you deliberately want it less relevant to the game then you are just making it less useful to yourself.

I don’t claim to have perfect values myself and they’re very theoretical, but we should always look for ways to improve on the accuracy.

[icy totem]

Ur values are ass, people want the true ttk not what ever bs ur cooking up

[crisp cloak]

What?

I’m saying TTKs should be accurate.

True ttk is kinda impossible to achieve

[fallen pendant]

Solar is pepega

[crisp cloak]

Like, can you give me a single reason why we should deliberately ignore scenarios that can and do happen in game for ttk?

[icy totem]

They are, urs aren't.

Its simple math bro

[crisp cloak]

It’s simple math if you want to ignore important information

Which you can do, but don’t pretend it makes the values you get better

[fast sonnet]

I swear I'll do a suggestion to ban him he's a pure troll, just check his historic on feedback
He'll argue full BS to get you tired just to have the last word, I practiced him a lot months ago, just remembered all the topics we chatted about

[crisp cloak]

:(

[fast sonnet]

you deserved 100% perma

[crisp cloak]

I don’t think it’s in the rules to not argue with people too much

[fast sonnet]

Nah you're driving people mad by arguing BS all along

it's pure taunt and harass

[crisp cloak]

People here are just unreasonable all the time. I don’t understand them but I can’t take it as my fault if people will criticise everything I do because they don’t like my views.

[fast sonnet]

dude putting the ":("

[crisp cloak]

Like here, I don’t think they even know what my data is. This kind of thing is extremely common in this server

[fast sonnet]

You're the one working without data

You told me for the reload time earlier

[crisp cloak]

Wdym

[fast sonnet]

You're a troll, talking about feelings, it's full BS

[crisp cloak]

Yes, I don’t have a handy spreadsheet of every number in the game on me
I probably would if I could though

[fast sonnet]

idk why you're doing that you must hate the BBR commu a lot

[crisp cloak]

I like the game.

[fast sonnet]

No

You like to troll people

and that's bannable

What do you want? A full vid of yourself arguing BS on BS on feedbacks?

Check your own profile

smh

[crisp cloak]

What I want from this server is to talk to people. I don’t need evidence to tell me how I behave, and I am aware there are several people here who don’t like me

I think it is weird though. This doesn’t happen in other game communities I’m part of

[fast sonnet]

It's not we don't like you, no one hate anyone there, you just keep trolling, even if people show you that you're wrong, and after that you make new assumptions all over again to start a new debate

[crisp cloak]

I have been wrong before

In this server

But that doesn’t mean I won’t talk about anything ever again

[fast sonnet]

Come on, give me that ":(" again

[crisp cloak]

I don’t do that very often.

[icy totem]

I'm actually curious what is FAL ttk in ur fantasy charts, since I actually know the ttk off the top of my head

[crisp cloak]

198ms average case vs armoured opponents

156 vs unarmoured

[potent wind]

which type of armour

[crisp cloak]

Average against all types, weighted for how often people use them from a Reddit poll. Not perfect I know, but I don’t have a better way to gather info on armour popularities

[jolly oar]

This thread is just bad tbh

bad suggestions normally create a bad thread from what I've noticed

[icy totem]

Lmao

[fast sonnet]

Armour has a lot and a lot on feedbacks before suggestions exist, I think it's an interesting subject or can be, if there's no troll

[crisp cloak]

(Those numbers assume each firing event is independent, with body/limb/headshot chances being 32.9%, 50%, and 17.1% respectively)

Hit location chances were initially gathered from a poll also but I bumped up limb chance artificially based on community consensus in the server

[icy totem]

How you even managed to a ttk lower than the the theoretical BEST POSSIBLE ttk vs un armored is crazy

Thanks for the headache

[crisp cloak]

Headshots

They exist

FAL can 2 shot if it gets at least one headshot

[icy totem]

🤓 u dont mix the 2 for a reason, add too much variability

just like u dont mix ever armor type too

[crisp cloak]

If you don’t mix the two you are removing important info.

Consider that two guns have the same headshot ttk and same bodyshot ttk

But, it’s possible that one needs less headshots to reach the headshot ttk than the other

In such cases, considering them separately would remove this information.

Despite it having a genuine impact on the gun’s performance in actuality

Also if you want to include armour without making it appear weaker than it is, you need to consider them both at once. As said before, the health pools aren’t independent

[crisp cloak]

I want to stress that the point of gathering ttk data in this way is to approximate what happens in game.

Shots are fired, they hit different places, and the shots it takes to kill the player is recorded. And you can do that a huge number of times and get an average

[icy totem]

Tldr no u

[crisp cloak]

I really don’t know why I bother.

[torn mulch]

what deep recess of your ass do you pull these numbers

it's impressive how every single time I read literally anything from you it is the most incorrect bullshit ever

[fallen pendant]

HAHAHA

NICE ONE

[torn mulch]

Please never get into any job related to math ever

[crisp cloak]

I just explained everything I need to.

I don’t get why people are like that so much.

[fast sonnet]

you made me spit my tea

[torn mulch]

for anyone actually interested in getting similar shots to kill on most weapons, the values for light -> exo are 10% DR up to 40% DR for body armor. It's an extremely simple equation to find these numbers, and surprisingly you don't need an entire simulation to end up saying that exo is able to eat 15 shots

[crisp cloak]

That only works with pure armour hits.

In any other scenario that does a lot worse than current armour.

I had to explain this same concept earlier, it is simple and easy to prove, though I’m about to go to bed so would not be able to do that rn.

The point is that that is a scenario that can happen, therefore you are only taking the best case with your assumption that all shots hit the armour.
With damage absorption, a single shot on the chest at any point in the gunfight will use the whole value of the chestplate (if it does sufficient damage), while without it it requires every shot to hit the chestplate.

[torn mulch]

great, so you identified why armor is so shit to play against 👍

And that's exactly why a rework is being proposed

[crisp cloak]

I’m not arguing against a rework, to be clear.

I’m pretty impartial on that front

[fallen pendant]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1181241121179975720 made this go vote 👀

[simple trench]

okay how the FUCK does this even exist?
last time i posted suggestions for Armour, some mod deleted me and told me to fuck off to some other channel that idk

he didn't even move my suggestion, downright deleted it even tho i spent so much time writing it
didn't even give a warning before deleting so i could copy the whole damn thing

[fallen pendant]

Really?

What channel did he tell you to post it too?

[simple trench]

i think it was something in the feedback channel (which itself is always locked)

[fallen pendant]

Armour feedback?

[simple trench]

ye

[fallen pendant]

Damn.

Well now there's two armour suggestion and my poll😎

[simple trench]

i'm just surprised leaving suggestions about stuff was banned back then (even tho they just made a forum for this shit) now it's suddenly allowed

[fallen pendant]

I'm ready to get deleted

[simple trench]

also W moderation
they didnt move my suggestion to there, they just deleted it
didn't even let me copy the thing somewhere else

[fallen pendant]

armour isn't in their prohibited suggestion tho

maybe it was before

[simple trench]

ye gud ideas there
me voted

[fallen pendant]

Thanks

[simple trench]

that's what im saying
it was dumb af

[fallen pendant]

We'll see how long this poll survive

I would've love if they had a forum where we can suggest poll, for weekly or monthly poll tbh.

And they could go over it during the dev stream

[fallen pendant]

it got nuked 💀

Didn't last 24h

[simple trench]

at least it wasn't instant LMAO

[fallen pendant]

True

[fast sonnet]

That poll was good

[simple trench]

and they want you to put it in that feedback thingy
i'm sure Oki will read through all hundreds if not thousands of messages there and actual useful feedback wouldn't get lost in there
very good job mods

[fast sonnet]

compared to "concussion" or whatever super bad suggestions

[fast sonnet]

20 mods btw