Oki, you Silly Goose. The Camo Kill Requirements are way too high.

[storm tide]

try to get at least 3 golds skins (10k kills) in 200 hours

will see. and its only 3 guns of like 40? whatever

gold skin on every gun now its not a 200h, its not even 1000h - like forget it

you are not a twich streamer or 13year old nolifer to grind every single day

[feral gorge]

currently 240hrs for 3 gold with 2kpm

sounds reasonable

[storm tide]

depands. for me not

[feral gorge]

okay then put gold to 5k and put something different at 10k

[storm tide]

its not a solution. Under gold I mean top skin.... you know. As I said after new update the bloody (for 10k) will be a new "gold", new precious

[feral gorge]

FOMO is not bad

its only bad if its used to milk you

[wide topaz]

240 hours for 3 guns

reasonable?

[feral gorge]

its a skin lmao

yes its reasonable

[wide topaz]

yeah no its not.

[feral gorge]

its not an essential gameplay feature

[wide topaz]

especailly since 90% of the skins are recolors

the actual amount of things you earn is not worth that time

and of course, it requires you to stick to very few guns

which is boring as shit

[feral gorge]

You all want the self satisfaction of "completing" a gun for like no reason.

Like imagine if they added a platinum skin for 100k kills

[wide topaz]

my man, 200 hours for skins is stupid

it is never going to not be stupid

[feral gorge]

Your complaint is that thats its hard to 100% the cosmetics of a game.

Why is that bad?

[wide topaz]

its not hard you dumbass

its time consuming.

for no reason other than bloat

[feral gorge]

its optional

[wide topaz]

skins are very few, most are colors

[feral gorge]

no one is forcing you to grind a gun

[wide topaz]

no value since theres like maybe 20 skins per catagory

the time sink is stupid.

[feral gorge]

no one is forcing you to get every armor trim in minecraft

no one is forcing you to get all vehicle in WoT

[wide topaz]

its a video game

it supposed to be fun

[feral gorge]

yeah

[wide topaz]

not a second job

[feral gorge]

it is fun

[wide topaz]

a massive grind isn't fun

[feral gorge]

You dont have fun if you dont get the gold skin? lol

[wide topaz]

especailly since it forces you to use only one gun

[feral gorge]

what kind of definition of fun is that

[fresh stump]

The complaint is not this

the complaint is that 1 skin can take upwards of 120 hours

[wide topaz]

Wollerot is the guy who buys all the COD cosmetics and then talks down to others who don't spend that money

[fresh stump]

And I don't even want to bother going for it, meaning it's not even an incentive

[wide topaz]

also true.

[fresh stump]

I would like the gold skin to be a nice little thing I look at and go "know what, lemme go for that"

[wide topaz]

skins are supposed to be rewards/incentives

[fresh stump]

but instead I look at it and go "nah fuck that"

[wide topaz]

not something that sucks the fun out of the game forcing you to grind with a very specific loadout like its some MMO

[feral gorge]

i have spent 0€ on microtransaction to this day

[feral gorge]

no one is forcing you to get a gold gun

the only one forcing you to get a gold gun is your greedy dopamine deprived brain

[wide topaz]

which is still the stupidest coutnerpoint to ever be used

all you are saying is that you have no value for time.

nothing more, nothing less.

[feral gorge]

I value time, thats why I dont go for gold guns.

[fresh stump]

Bro

[wide topaz]

ok, then your words here mean nothing lol

[fresh stump]

Idk what to tell you

We're not literally being forced to get the gold gun, that's not even the argument being made

[wide topaz]

either you don't care for time, or you don't care at all. and you just admitted you don't care at all.

[feral gorge]

.

you literally argued that you are being forced to do it.

[wide topaz]

do you know how english works?

[feral gorge]

If you want gold then you are forced to grind but have you ever contemplated not wanting gold?

[fresh stump]

My b, y'all are just arguing for funzies. I'll get outta the way

[wide topaz]

backpeddling once his previous argumnent was defeated lol

sorry that words in english can be used in different contexts

[feral gorge]

A game is supposed to be fun. Locking essential game features (new guns) behind too much grind is bad.

But optional cosmetics?

[wide topaz]

its an incentive in a massively bloated cosmetic system. of which those skins are simply not worth on basically anything but the meta weapons because of a time sink. not to mention the non primary weapons. or any weapon that has a lower avg kill potential.

if the system was rewarding below it, and not just a massive pile a recolors in a crappy UI system, I don't think many people would care

as it is, all we got is what amounts to a massive amount of recolors. and a massive time sink for something you can't even show off currently

If I want gold on my favorite guns, I would need to put in 80 hours using nothing but those guns minimum at my current kpm. more because one is a pistol, and another is a bolt(which is not my best class as is). 3 guns, over 200 hours of gameplay only with those guns.

and since one is a pistol that is not a heavy or the glock, that 80 hours is unlikely to say the least.

[feral gorge]

Okay, then as I said, reduce the amount required for Gold and put a different skin at 10k instead. (And reduce it for sidearms even further)

[wide topaz]

the argument here is not that gold is 10k

its that its gold is 10k for all the guns

[feral gorge]

It was Lost' argument.

[wide topaz]

again for primaries, this is simple if you are decent with it.

alot of them are easy enough to work with,

AR snd SMG but Br's/lmgs, dmrs, then bolts, then secondary classes all need to be looked at

of course the bloat need s to be brought down too

[feral gorge]

sure

[wide topaz]

as I said we got 20-30 skins per section, and then 20 colors or something

[inland glacier]

gimme gold mines

[wide topaz]

per

[feral gorge]

Reducing customisation aint a good idea tho

[wide topaz]

so reducing that bloat to Skin -> click skin -> click color

[feral gorge]

The UI should be better yup

But ther overall options shouldnt be reduced.

[wide topaz]

not talking reduced

its like fools gold rn

there is not alot of choice as is

its the illusion given by having the recolors side by side with the original

I'm saying a UI where you select the category, select the skin type(say the first camo one for ease) and then from there you select unlocked colors as if the skin itself was a category.

meaning all the recolors are still there, but are not side by side with the first skin of that type unlocked

do you get what I'm saying here?

[storm tide]

the whole conversation, three people are telling him that “golden skin” = “10k” = “top skin”, this person

[feral gorge]

Devildogg didnt complain about not being to get the top skin

just about the progression being stupid for sidearms and snipers

which is fair

[storm tide]

he doesn’t understand that this is not a solution to our problem. the earth is flat

[feral gorge]

But FOMO for the top skin being grindy to get is stupid

I would be up for a new 20k skin for the cateat people.

[inland glacier]

skin for 20k deaths

[feral gorge]

[inland glacier]

if you equip that you can instantly give up

[storm tide]

rip, just a waste of time

[wide topaz]

if the devs looked at average kill potential for each gun and weapon class, then altered the kills to fit each class and/or weapon, I think we wouldn't need to argue.

[feral gorge]

10k for the likes of rsh is indeed not such a good idea

[fresh stump]

Putting a different skin at 10k doesn't solve the problem

It's literally just the same problem

Please refer to the reasons I stated above

I agree that gun categories should be scaled appropriately

I disagree that 10k should be for any of them

I disagree that the system should include kills at all tbh. Weapon XP is superior for a team based game. Kill challenges can still be in, but 10k is stupid

But if we're going to keep it, at least make it not a giant pain in the ass for anyone who's doesn't put in 100+ hours on only one gun. Thanks

This isn't like a difficult argument. What's more important is the overall experience of the game imo. You can still reward the old players who did grind it out with an exclusive loyalty skin, but that doesn't mean the system needs to stay shitty just to reward anyone who doesn't mind grinding for 10k kills in a meat grinder server

[inland glacier]

what do you thing should be the highest skin?

[final mirage]

There should be a 1mil kill skin.

[feral gorge]

L

This is literally irrational FOMO

you are mad that there are skins that take long to grind to

i want them to add a 100k skin just to annoy you

[fresh stump]

Bro you literally cannot read. It's not FOMO, I literally do not care about the skin

I'm asking for it to be made more reasonable so I feel a drive TO get the skin

If I had FOMO I wouldn't be asking for an exclusive legacy skin for those who did reach 10k

[feral gorge]

there is a drive to get the bronze skin, its only 2,5k

[fresh stump]

No there's not. I don't care about a skin in the middle

[feral gorge]

you admit that you dont loose anything by adding a 100k skin

[feral gorge]

yeah, fomo

[fresh stump]

That's not FOMO

[feral gorge]

waaa I cant have all skins for a gun waaaa waaa

[fresh stump]

FOMO is the NEED to get something, participate, etc because I'm afraid of missing out on an experience

I'm not afraid of missing out, I actively do not want to participate because the activity sucks

[fresh stump]

If kills were kept I think 5k being the highest possible one for like ARs and Smgs would be fair

It would take 17 hours at 5kpm - wich would be ACTIVE grinding for it for most people

17 hours is like a hardcore weekend of non stop grinding. I think that's fair for a kill requirement skin

For context again, 5kpm would be arrrrrround 150 kills in a match. Most people won't have that

At 2kpm it would be about 42 hours. Still atrocious, but obtainable by just playing normally for most people

Well not atrocious, but much more reasonable

[feral gorge]

What does on loose by adding a 10k skin tho?

[fresh stump]

I've made suggestions I linked above to properly adapt the system to a lower kill count while also making every unlockable actually meaningful

[feral gorge]

You literally loose nothing.

[dense junco]

lose*

[fresh stump]

Look man, if you were trying to convince me to walk 1000000 miles for a piece of candy every 10 miles and an extra large piece of candy after I'm done, I probably wouldn't want to because the reward just isn't worth it - or I only do a tiny bit and go "fuck this"

So I won't bother doing any of the walk for any of the candy

Because like, I could just go do something else, or buy my own candy, or literally do anything actually fun

All the skins currently, are kind of worthless to me to begin with. So I the only draw for me is completion. But that draw literally isn't there for me because the amount of effort and unfun gameplay I would have to put in just to say I did it isn't worth it

All I'm asking is to make the ask a little more reasonable for me and the 356 other people that liked this post so I feel a draw to do it and play the game more

A great anecdotal example. My friend plays this game casually with me every once in a while. When I told him "you can get a gold skin for 10k kills" he said "lol no" and instantly lost that as a motivation to play

I'ma reply to my points from earlier again on this

There's multiple actual gameplay ramifications for this as well that may affect other people in some ways. It's just NOT a good system currently. But if it's to be kept in any capacity it should at least be scaled down so it feels like you can earn it without literally grinding away on purpose

[feral gorge]

completionist syndrome then, whatever you wanna call it

it doesnt really matter

[fresh stump]

If it doesn't matter, stfu please, thanks

Cause I wanna cry about it

It matters to me

[dense junco]

i do not share your issue, therefore i win

[fresh stump]

checkmate Skin Reducer

[feral gorge]

grow up and dont get sad when you cant 100% a game?

[wide topaz]

grow up and stop fighting for something you don't give a shit about?

[feral gorge]

i give a shit about there being a skin at 10k

[wide topaz]

you already said you didn't give a fuck.

don't walk back now.

[fresh stump]

[fervent kayak]

Honestly best approach is to have 99% of skins to take a relatively moderate time to get

With the 1% being mastery and the 10k one

[fresh stump]

That just sound likes the same thing

[feral gorge]

yeah exactly

But these people complain about there being high requirement skins for like no reason at all

[fervent kayak]

Currently, gettting the more basic skins is kinda ass and should have a unlock requirement, if possible, for each category

Instead of getting like 7k or something just for a pink skin

That way, players can get whatever they skin they want on whatever they want without the full commitment that it would take for a single skin

That or you can select which category you want to grind out

Idfk

Either way, you can techically not lower the requirement to unlock every basic skin by just lowering the requirement for each category

For example, instead of taking 7k for pink skin, it could take 1k of the unlock if you are doing the unlock requirement for the category

Idk how much exactly it would amount to but basically

Lets say the requirement for the category is to get kills at a certain distance or just headshots or something

The first skin would require 25 kills with that requirement

Next one will need 50 and the one after that 75 in total

And that keeps going until you got all of them in that category

Simple system really

And unlocking mastery ones is seperate basically

Alongside the 10k one

Another benefit would be that you can slowly fill out other requirements as well

Like if i get a headshot at certain distance, it will count up by 1 towards 2 different skin categories because i filled the specific kill requirement for both categories

[fresh stump]

That's an improved system, though I still think the 10k reward is stupid high

But anything to improve the system would be good

Like, 5k would be fine. 10k is still stupid as a requirement no matter what you do to the system imo

Mastery being for each category being completed is better imo ofc though, but then why is there a 10k skin?

I don't know why we've gotta bend over backwards to keep it lmao

I do think being able to do multiple goals at once to decrease the time it takes to get it would be a good solution - it's why I recommended weapon xp

[fervent kayak]

I mean having like 1 skin be comically hard to obtain isnt that bad

[dense junco]

it is difficult to balance accessibility with the prestige of having The Gold Skin

it should still have some significance but not be a weeks-long commitment

[fresh stump]

I just don't see the point in it

It's just dumb

I wouldn't care if it was like actually hard, it's just not

Make it like an actually difficult challenge to build up and I'm down

If I see someone with the 10k skin I'll just be like "oh they grinded for that, cool"

[fervent kayak]

10k headshots

[fresh stump]

Lmao, now that's comically hard

I support this

[wide topaz]

can't even show them off unless you area CC

[fervent kayak]

For snipers the kills must be over 1km too

[inland glacier]

give ppl something to do that spend too much time in bbr already

[fresh stump]

idk how else to explain this man

for those without income who got BBR, maybe a time sync is enough to keep them around

but for me, I'm not going to spend my time doing something that is literally there just to be a time sync

I don't mind the idea of "really hard challenge that few people have, and will take a loooong time for anyone to get all of them"

but like, the 10k kills isn't "hard" because it's a challenge, it's "hard" because it takes FOREVER

Idk how many times I need to go in a circle to explain this to some of y'all man

10k kills isn't a worthwhile, fun challenge. It's a waste of time that representing nothing other than "I spent way too many hours not playing the objective on wakistan for this"

And once someone gets 10k kills on their one gun that they ONLY use because they only like that one gun, wtf is left at that point for THAT player

the 10k kill requirement is for that ONE type of player who only uses one gun and is willing to grind it up to max. I can't guarantee that they'll be burnt out after grinding that, but I'm sure after they get it they won't feel amazing

The challenge takes about 80 hours at 2kpm - that's 120 kills in an hour long game. That's not including loading screens, queue times, times where you're just not doing so hot, or times when the server you want to grind on isn't on the right map or mode for you

I feel like some of you really haven't thought about how fucking stupid this "challenge" is

Most people are done with a game after 80 hours. But then again, I guess if you're the type to go after a 35ish hour challenge at 5kpm challenge, you'll probably not give a fuck about grinding away for a week on a server for hours a day then continue playing after

I think the iron pickaxe is a great example of a challenge that's a little much, but isn't the same thing. You still have to grind for it, but getting pickaxe kills consistently can be HARD to actually do. I still think the amount asked for is an annoyingly high amount for a very niche weapon, but for that one it's an actual challenge and I respect the person who did it because I'm like "oh damn, this mofo really did that". With the 10k kill challenge I'm just like "neat" or don't notice.

Like, if there was a gold c4 challenge that was "get 1000 multikills", that'd be a good challenge

If the concern is giving people something to do, then attach this shit to a weapon XP system, or make the LEVELING system that thing to do. That way they at least play the fucking objective instead of dog for kills for upwards of 80 hours +

TLDR: My problem is that it's kill based and a time sync. Not fun for 90% of people who aren't just playing to do something

[fervent kayak]

Its just one skin

And its not meant for your average joe

There is no real way to make it fun without also making it hard to get

The point is that its really for the most dedicated

Just look at something like damascus skins in COD

They require you to get gold on every single possible weapon

Its tedious as hell

You can only make it grindy in one way or the other, it wont make a difference

Its still grindy

[wide topaz]

this took most people 80 hours total. not 200+ hours for one gun.

[fresh stump]

Grinds can be fun man

I just don't think this is a fun grind, both in the ask and in the actual thing you're doing

I feel like a kill requirement in COD is different from one in a game like BBR because BBR is - ideally - trying to encourage teamplay via things like points and such

My issue with the kill requirement is that it causes some other issues (I mentioned earlier) simply due to how stupid high its time commitment is

If you ignore the challenge because you "don't care", you'll likely never get a gold skin in your time playing BBR unless you stick to ONLY one gun the entire time you play

And even then if your KPM is anything under 2 every single game with only that gun as your kills, it'll take you around 80 hours

You could, theoretically, be a dedicated player with kills spread out across just a few guns. Across just 4 guns it would take 320 hours of constant 2kpm games. In reality it would probably be closer to like 500 because you'll have some games where you want to use something fresh, get a bunch of c4 kills (which don't count), use a vehicle, or just plain SUCK ass that match.

Here's a reddit post about the cod skin you mentioned - I believe

from here: https://www.reddit.com/r/modernwarfare/comments/ez2fkl/damascus_how_long_does_it_take/

That is astronomically less than just 3 guns in BBR

Most people are saying roughly 8 days of in game time, which is only 192 hours compared to 1 gun in battlebit remasterd, which is 120 hours at 1kpm ideally

Most people do not average 1kpm every single game

Like, at 2kpm you'd need 60 kills per 30 minute match to get the 10k kill skin in around 80ish hours

Like, I feel like the only sane person here when I say this shit is a little bit much

For people who already have 1k+ hours of active playtime, maybe it doesn't seem like a lot. But that's the vast minority of players. It just does NOT make sense to have it be so damn high. Cutting it in half to 5k is perfectly reasonable imo.

[jade laurel]

Im, honestly amazed you are still going

[fresh stump]

I refuse to budge on this lmao

knowing Oki he'll read the most recent "LMAO IT'S FINE STFU" post and make it worse

That's what happened with map voting 😭

Also, in cod it looooks like they use a weapon xp system along with kill rewards. The highest of which only being 800

Which makes sense in the context of the smaller matches of cod, but that game is more kill focused than BBR and it still has more reasonable goals

[fresh stump]

also I have nothing better to do the past few days lol

[jade laurel]

🫡

[fresh stump]

I've lost Slaz for mindless argumentation

This is my hill, I will die on it

[dense junco]

passion is what we need in these threads

keep it up

[fresh stump]

If there is one 10k kill requirement in the game, I'll bitch about it

if there is only one guy who hates the 10k kill requirement, it's me

if everyone is happy with the 10k kill requirement, I'm dead

Also, I'm in the majority, so I feel like I am the reasonable one here

(I've got a custom theme, so it's pinkish)

[fervent kayak]

COD uses the weapon xp system strictly for unlocking attachments, not camos

Camos are tied to categories, and said categories have different unlock requirements

It ranges from just getting kills normally to headshots, distance, kills in a row, specific attachments at times etc.

It also depends on weapon type, same category may have a different requirement depending on the weapon type

[fervent kayak]

I also generally agree with that kill requirements should be changed, but I really dont mind the 10k one

Basic skins? Yeah, definetly lower the requirement across the board

We already know how the mastery ones will turn out

10k one? Like i said, i dont mind it

[fresh stump]

I saw in a chart, thanks for the explaination

Idk what to tell ya if you don't mind it

tbh that probably just means you wouldn't care if it was larger or smaller

[storm tide]

@fresh stump , fuck it. It's pointless, you're not gonna wake these people up. Moreover, the developers like the figure of 10k, because by changing the skin system they left the skin for 10k, bloody one. And the more this system lives the more people who have/will have this skin.

You say that the developers could reduce the required number of kills, and all those who have 10k to give a unique skin. But have any of devs even responded to this post ? ?

400 reactions, the most discussed thread on the forum - zero feedback from devs... waste of time

I am one your side, but it not gonna happen

[storm tide]

https://tenor.com/view/rorschach-dr-manhattan-disintegrated-watchman-gif-18353978

[frank saffron]

Is not the most discussed thread on the forum

[fresh stump]

Well it is currently

Inertia got nuked

[fervent kayak]

And we still got inertia

[feral gorge]

no one has 1kpm lmao

[wide topaz]

the avg was 1.1 kpm

[feral gorge]

okay the average person is not supposed to grind for a gold skin

Its not gonna be any different for cod

[wide topaz]

cod grind for the end game skins is shorter than 3 guns in Battlebit.

[fervent kayak]

Many still dont attempt grinding for something like damascus

[wide topaz]

right, because 200 hours for the average player is a pretty big time sink.

[fresh stump]

And most would only start grinding after playing for a bit

[fresh stump]

But the point is, once they start getting close enough they'll start trying for it

And that's going to naturally happen way more often in COD than BBR currently

[fresh stump]

Also, I'm not even talking about the average player here, I'm talking about people with like 200 hours in the game like I've got (which I reached like months ago, no update is rough).

Like there's 3 types of players, the ones who do like 20-50 hours and play occasionally, the ones who've got 100-200+ who I would consider the dedicated core who tend to come back pretty regularly, and the 1000+ hour ones who simply don't play much else

The 1000+ hour crew doesn't NEED these skin incentives, nor is it the reason they keep playing

The incentives are more for the 100-200+ hour guys, and converting the 50 hour peeps into those 100-200 hour guys

[jade laurel]

Not that you need any motivation to keep shouting at the void but, having something to unlock or lack there of is partially what has contributed to my burn out. I cant unlock anything on the guns I like, and the core gameplay loop is so played out for me that the additional incentive helps smooth over the irritatin stuff

[fervent kayak]

Not really how that works

Its a bit of a bold assumption that the majority of people would be willing to grind skins for multiple guns

At best, maybe 2 or 3 that they really like or meta ones and thats about it

[wide topaz]

skin grinding is like one of the more popular things people do in FPS's my dude.

[feral gorge]

The insinuation the people wont grind because there is a random skin at 10k is silly

The problem is more currently that its the gold skin and that the normal skins also take till like 6k?

[fresh stump]

Then why even compare it to cod man

Why do they put it in there

It's cause it works

Idk man

I just want it to be better

[fresh stump]

It's not an insinuation, I'm literally them and I have a friend that is like that too

as I've stated like 5 times

[fresh stump]

And like I said above, it's not a bold assumption in any way. COD games do shit that works for the masses, they do things that appeal to the most people & their core demographics. If a COD game - which is a series I don't play - does an unlock system like that and I'm like "yea I could see myself going for that", but BBR - which is a game I do play and quite enjoy - does a system in which I'm like "nah that shit is stupid", I really don't think it's THAT much of a stretch to say there's a problem

[fresh stump]

Also, another point, I did not ever say "the majority of people would be willing to grind skins for multiple guns"

I'm simply trying to suggest changes to the system that make it more reasonable for more people, and - honestly - just more fun

The current system is ass, it's not fun, it sucks doodoo dog dick

If you had fun with it, great, good for you, I think you're in the minority

[jade laurel]

I hope this thread finally gets locked down one day. its 4k message deep, aint nothing new happening

For your sake lost, you must be set free

[fresh stump]

It will never be locked down

I know it to be ture

It's literally always on topic somehow

[fresh stump]

Also, a dev has NEVER said something in this thread, surprisingly

This is probably one of the most debated subjective threads out there, so I'd love to have a dev just say "nah" so we can lock it and I can lose faith

[jade laurel]

May you find closure one day

[final mirage]

Containment threads are forever.

[fervent kayak]

Im not arguing that grinding for skins is not popular
Im saying that your average joe would only really invest in a few guns at best and not the vast majority of the roster

I just dont understand this hyperfixation on the 10k skin

I am all for making the basic unlocks more varied and not requiring a massive grind for a very, very basic skins

But man only a mere handful would only give a shit about grinding out a 10k

Yes, having that skin would be really cool but the vast majority wont pursue it at all and that is perfectly fine

You dont need to make every single thing accessible to the average joe in hopes to make them keep playing the game

There is already a plethora of very basic skins in the game, not to mention the fact that we are getting digi camos next updates, and the fact that we can customize said skins on our guns already in a few ways (mixing 2 different skins on the same gun and which pattern it has of the selected skin) if one so desires

Making basic ones more accessible would be logical and help indeed

However, the way I see it, 10k should stay purely for the small amount of people that are willing to grind for it

[sick plinth]

keep gold-silver
Scale by weapon
lower non gold-silver to like current bronze instead of the same as gold

[fresh stump]

I just don't understand the hyper fixation on keeping it the exact way it is.

I will reiterate that it's not about the accessibility here, it's about the 10k reward not being fun to complete/do - it isn't the right kind of "hard". And I think it goes against the Teamplay based goals of the game.

The 10k reward is SO high that it forces grinding to get it in a reasonable amount of time. Those who only focus on one gun would have to grind it for upwards of 34ish hours at around 5-6kpm, and 80ish hours at 2kpm. That is fucking wild to me. Once again, at 2kpm that's around 120 kills in an hour long match every single match - all using one gun ONLY for every kill.

The 10k requirement:

1. Incentives gameplay that isn't necessarily the best way to win (grinding kills on waki bridge for example) and incentives selfish playstyles further rather than match victory focused ones.
2. It only rewards players who priorize high kpm gameplay and fails to reward those who prioritize objective based gameplay.
3. It's clearly meant to reward players for time invested in a gun, but fails to do so in a fun manner. Some players might use a gun all of the time but take significantly longer to get the skin simply because they didn't want to optimize the fun out of the process by grinding kills for the skin. A weapon XP system would be a better solution to reward the time investment because it would not only equalize the time it takes to get the skins, but make it so much more passive and fun (you get the skin by playing the game the way you want to).

I'll ask this again:

Why should we scale kills by weapon type when the rewards are there for the people who want them? What is the harm in leaving pistols as 10k kills?

Why take away the 10k kill requirement from sidearms? There are people who enjoy grinding for them. Let them have their fun! Who cares that it's annoying to get for the vast majority of people?

The argument literally defeats everything on both sides of the discussion. It's kind of a non starter tbh.

Saying there should be something because someone will want it could justify anything being added, kept, or removed.

I just think adjusting, changing, or removing the 10k kill requirement would make for a better game. If you want to reward time investment, that's what a leveling system is for. If you want to reward skill with guns, then use reasonable challenges.

Hence why I keep asking for weapon XP, it's the best solution for what the 10k kill requirement is trying to do. Reward time invested in using a gun.

TLDR: Agree to disagree at this point, lmao. All we can do is scream into the void about what we want to this dev team

Made the rant shorter for y'all. Yw

[fresh stump]

Side note, I appreciate all of y'all who come in here to say your opinions. It's been really fun to be challenged by everyone in different ways on this. Pretty fun way to kill an hour or so. I think there have been multiple valid solutions that have been came up with in this thread that could be used - not just mine.

[inland glacier]

my solution is the correct one

[fervent kayak]

1. Fun is subjective, just because it is not fun for you doesn't mean it applies to everyone else. 1a. If you want to incentivise teamplay, make teamplay more viable and fun. Slapping an arbitrary challenge to incentivise it is a temporary solution that marginally increases playtime at best, does not help in the long run and does not really make sense being on a gun in the first place.

2. Requirements for pistols (and maybe snipers) is another story and should be lowered. Not sure why you brought that up as I haven't said a single thing about them.

3. I fail to see how the weapon XP requirement is any more fun that grinding for kills, as it will either make the process too easy or it will change nothing and ultimately be the same shit just repackaged to be different.

I will repeat this once again and make it abundantly clear.
Having one skin that caters specifically to the people that are willing to grind it out is fine, given the other skins are more accessible.
Changing it will not make as big of a difference as you are making it out to be if any at all. It is utterly foolish to think so. Getting that skin is kinda in the same vein as 100%/ getting a platinum on any game - it is not mandatory and is really only there for the most dedicated people that are willing to put themselves through it. If you feel like that is a problem, that is entirely on you and not the game itself.

[woeful acorn]

Mfw this is still going

[sick plinth]

Yup

[jade laurel]

right round like a record baby right round round round

[wide topaz]

"Not mandatory" is just a shitty argument from people with no actual argument.

[inland glacier]

[fervent kayak]

Why are some treating it like you HAVE to get it

[naive python]

is this inertia V-fuck?

[sick plinth]

Unobtainable is such a shitty argument from people who need participation trophies

You don't deserve everything in life

[wide topaz]

you keep acting like its a good idea to have an 80 hour grind with one gun. that kind of grind has never worked before when it was implemented. every game with a massive grind like that is either an MMO and asking for money.

[wide topaz]

yeah cause just getting kills is so hard. liking a time sink ain't a good argument you moron.

[sick plinth]

Who cares? The skin isn't for you

[naive python]

you don't have to grind that though

[sick plinth]

You don't have to like it

[fervent kayak]

That still isnt changing the fact that the vast majority is not even going to go after it

[inland glacier]

what else can you do to add sth to grind for except kills or xp(which is basically the same problem)?

[sick plinth]

Just stop trying to drag people down to your level

[wide topaz]

lol. Kill only is nothing, if it was actually hard and not just "farm kills", maybe you would have a leg to stand on

but you don't.

[sick plinth]

If it's so easy then do it

But you dont

[wide topaz]

lol

time sink dumbass

[sick plinth]

Womp womp

[wide topaz]

easy to do, takes a long time

fucking idiot

[fervent kayak]

Come up with a good argument

[sick plinth]

Takes a long time if you have no kpm

Skill issue entirely

[wide topaz]

yeah, top 1% of players take 80 hours

fucking idiot

[sick plinth]

Actual entitled playerbase in this game

[wide topaz]

for one gun

[fervent kayak]

I am not wrong in saying that it isnt meant for most people and that most people will not even go after it anyways

[sick plinth]

Ooo how scary I bet literally nobody has it then

[naive python]

devildogg trying not to be a

[sick plinth]

Or, hold on, people did grind it and enjoy having it?

Nah, fuck em

[wide topaz]

sure. not like I'm in the majority, while you guys are fighting for shitty game design lol

[sick plinth]

Gotta think of the players who don't care or the ones who want other people's toys

[fervent kayak]

Wow having 1 things that takes a while to reach and is completely irrelevant to the actual gameplay loop is suuuuuch shiiity game design

[sick plinth]

You're not in the majority. Half the people who checked that mark mean the general skin reqs, me included. Trophy skins are their own thing

[wide topaz]

yeah, there's a reason it failed over the past decade lol

[sick plinth]

What's your source? That they're all sold instead?

[wide topaz]

sure bud. you check with each and everyone? bull as usual

[fervent kayak]

Did that one thing ruin the game or anything

[sick plinth]

Read the thread from original

[wide topaz]

sold or patched to lower or different requirments.

[sick plinth]

But that's ok

[wide topaz]

yeah, yeah. you totally know everybody and their reasons.

fucking psychic or something

[sick plinth]

Bc you do

Hypocrite

[wide topaz]

not really, considering what the post says.

especially since you say you don't like the post.

so oh well, gotta walk back on that too?

[inland glacier]

oh no a time sink scary

[naive python]

"not like i'm in the majority [...]"

[wide topaz]

yeah, because the post says what I am saying lol. and people upvoted it.

[naive python]

mf plays games and complains about time sinks for sweats lmao

[wide topaz]

hence "majority" by definition lol

[naive python]

[sick plinth]

Fuckin hilarious. Let's see em remove all time sinks, make sure there's nothing to grind for. We'll see how great player retention keeps once everyone can have everything. Better not have stuff like vehicle kills, those could take too long since there's so few. Or tree kills.

Why the fuck do we have prestige 10?

[wide topaz]

lol

[sick plinth]

Is oki stupid?

[wide topaz]

there are acceptable time sinks dumbass.

80 hours as a top 1% player for one skin

[naive python]

please remove leveling i can't

[wide topaz]

is not one of them

[sick plinth]

It's taken me more than 80 hours to get to p10

[sick plinth]

They should nerf that again

[naive python]

the ones you decide?

[woeful acorn]

The ones oki decide like progression

[wide topaz]

considering they are planning to lower skin requirements across the board? don't need to lol

[fervent kayak]

That is correct, which is why i advocate to lower the basic ones
And the mastery cames are being lowered A LOT

[naive python]

they are not lmao

[fervent kayak]

Whoops frogot to reply

[naive python]

at least not really

[sick plinth]

I'll be waiting here when you come back to complain about charms or ghillie camos

[wide topaz]

they are, unless they changed their minds in the last 2 weeks

[fervent kayak]

And suddenly, having 1 time sink remain is the worst thing ever?

[naive python]

headshot kills...

[sick plinth]

2k headshot kills A OK

Dw

[naive python]

i don't think i have to elaborate

and there's still a 10k kills skin

[wide topaz]

ok. still altering the requirements to me lower as is. and they are looking at the feedback for the skins requiremnts to see if they need to lower them again.

simple enough.

[sick plinth]

Uhuh

Definitely

You a gambling man

[woeful acorn]

I should pull out okis old thing about headshot rate

[sick plinth]

It's super high that's why everyone plays recon right

Big heass

[fervent kayak]

I would like to see what you are refering to

[naive python]

man this devildog guy is a yapologist

[fervent kayak]

I am curious

[wide topaz]

considering your old posts? pot, meet kettle.

[naive python]

what old posts?

i barely ever made suggestions

when it comes to debating bad takes though

[wide topaz]

you know a message is a post right?

[naive python]

not really

[fervent kayak]

I mean he didnt yap much mans like t3

[sick plinth]

What

[naive python]

ye went on a multi month hiatus

[woeful acorn]

[inland glacier]

pls

[fervent kayak]

Yes

[naive python]

ong pwease sworce

[woeful acorn]

Wow oki never gave an actual correct value

Honestly quite comedic

[inland glacier]

[fervent kayak]

[naive python]

now imagine hs kill

the new challenge skins will be more difficult than the current ones lmao

[fresh stump]

1. I've mentioned multiple times why I don't think it's fun for barely anyone. If you enjoy grinding something for the sake of it, yes it'll be "fun". But I don't think it's fun in the way it should be.

2. I mentioned these to point out why the "why get rid of it if someone wants to get it" argument is simply a non starter and useless to try to discuss around. Wasn't necessarily directed at you only, but I'm pretty sure you've said that at some point. Could be wrong though, this shit melds together.

3. I really don't know how many times I can explain this. Weapon XP allows for passive XP gain. Instead of having to go out of your way to grind your kills for 60 hours of matches, which if you want to go as fast as possible makes you an active detriment to your team at times, it'll allow you to earn a bit of progress for actually playing the objectives and going for the win. The amount of time could be reduced a bit AND it would allow you to grind if you wanted to, but you'd spend less time doing so and therefore less time farming kills on waki bridge, or shooting or shooting people on the spawn borders on Frontline.

In fact, I'm pretty sure for point 2 you literally just said the argument I was addressing with the question about reducing kill counts - aka making any skins more accessible

No one is arguing having a skin that caters to people who want to grind for it is the problem

[woeful acorn]

Also here's a bonus @inland glacier @fervent kayak @naive python 😭

[fresh stump]

The skin that's there is ridiculous. I don't think it'll make a massive difference at the end of the day, but like we're arguing about a really niche change here for the people who DO care about it

[fresh stump]

I'm not sure what oki meant by this lol

He can do anything, what is this man speaking about

[woeful acorn]

Don't ask

[fresh stump]

There are 2 arguments that are literally non starters and can be used to argue against making the skin system better, and can actually be used to make it even worse

1. If someone wants to grind for it, why bother changing it.

2. It's optional? You don't have to go for it

I gotta admit, these two arguments are entirely useless for this discussion imo. Playing the game is optional bro, lol. And like I said, if we based adding and taking away things on "eh someone will do it", this game would be a bloated mess

Like, add a 20k skin too

And a 30k skin

In fact, make every skin unlock WORSE because someone WILL do it. It's fine, it's a reward for them. Just add more skins in between

[fervent kayak]

Pretty sure few folks have 50k on some guns lmao

[woeful acorn]

Don't give the mf ideas

[fresh stump]

I REALLY doubt that it's more than like 100 people max

That's insane tbh

[fervent kayak]

Im gonna go find a screenshot rq of one example

[woeful acorn]

Spirals has 100k aug

[fresh stump]

That's wild

Like literal insanity

[woeful acorn]

Oki after using the justification of players have more time to do stupid fuckin shit

[fresh stump]

Anyone with over 1k hours is wild imo

Idk how y'all don't get bored/find the time. Then I remember children exist

And the unemployed

[jade laurel]

I hope the irony of that statment is not lost on you, lostmixup

[fervent kayak]

Oh yeah true

[fresh stump]

Either or, I think it's cool they have 50k kills. I just don't know if it necessarily NEEDS to be rewarded with an unlock. Just add a kill tracker or something that shows up when they kill other people

I think that'd be the type of reward they'd want tbh

[fervent kayak]

Why not

[fresh stump]

Anyone who likes big number go brrr would like it

[fresh stump]

Why not add rewards infinitely for every kill?

[fervent kayak]

Id dig rewards for gadgets

[fresh stump]

If that's oki's goal, constant dopamine rewards, sure go ahead

[woeful acorn]

Kill tracker charm surely

Surely

[fresh stump]

Lol this is currently lost on me

I'm employed, so I don't get it

I've been arguing the same thing for months, I'm dense. Point it out to me please

[jade laurel]

The comment about not understanding how someone has a 1,000 hours in a game, while single handedly arguing into the void for hours and hours and hours and hours is. Hilarious to me

[frank saffron]

Stop lie

[fresh stump]

I just do it in between meetings

And when I'm not doing much

[frank saffron]

I dont have 1k hours so I’m not a veteran bbr gamer

[jade laurel]

Other people choose to play the game instead of arguing about the skins in the game . Its not a big mystery as to how people have 1,000 hours, or, it shouldnt be.

[fresh stump]

I didn't say it was

[frank saffron]

Rust players laughing

[fresh stump]

I just thought it's wild to me

[jade laurel]

Keep up the good fight? though. Arguing design philosophy definitely has a right answer out there || it does not ||

[fresh stump]

Anyone who has 1k hours on any game is wild to me

[frank saffron]

Send your steam account bro

[fresh stump]

If you wanna shit on peeps arguing useless stuff for fun man, that's all good. Pot calling the kettle black I think

[fresh stump]

I enjoy playing AND talking about the game. It's fun

[frank saffron]

444hours on vr chat is crazy

Cmon

[fresh stump]

I have more than that

It's pretty easy to spend time on it tbh

[frank saffron]

So you are crazy

[fresh stump]

Yee

[jade laurel]

I was attempting to use humor to highlight that, you have been talking in circles for weeks my dude.

[fresh stump]

It's not really a "game" though

It's more of a social platform

But I get your point

[jade laurel]

But you enjoy it, and palma throws you a bone everyonce in a while

[fresh stump]

Yup

[frank saffron]

Social platform yea

[inland glacier]

i can see that

[jade laurel]

right round like a record baby right round round round

[fresh stump]

Nuh uh. I didn't chat on here for a few weeks. My forum argument addiction was fiiiiine

[frank saffron]

The vr chat player is crazy

[fresh stump]

Idk why we're shitting on me personally now, I was just saying I find anyone with over 1k hours in a game crazy cause I just can't stick to a game for that long generally. Not any hate man, you do you

Most I've got in a game is 600 I think

Just different people, no biggie

[jade laurel]

You opening statement was essentially, to have over 1,000 hours in a game you have to be a child or unemployed which generally carries a negative connotation. That combined with the seemingly blind ignorance to your own dedication for talking in suggestion threads, winds up with you being easy to "shit on".

[fresh stump]

Oh ok, that makes sense ya

[frank saffron]

But bro have 444 hours on vr chat

Close this suggestion bro

[fresh stump]

Probably could've been nicer about it, but I guess if you only play battlebit it's possible too. You can be employed and have 3k hours probably at this point

I'm not the op?

[rare blade]

[jade laurel]

This thread is also, months beyond its expiration. This is not a creative design space to plan progression systems and skins . You have reached a point where the decision makers of the game need to make a decision. Its not about metric (that you dont have) or opinions. Its arguing in circles for the sake of amusement

[naive python]

omg he's just like me fr

[fresh stump]

Yea?

Ok?

[jade laurel]

ok

[frank saffron]

Useless suggestion

[fervent kayak]

I just wanted to point out something on this rq
Not sure why you are acting as if the people (at least as of recently that I have seen) are against changing the entire system

[jade laurel]

see you in another 1,000 messages

[frank saffron]

[fresh stump]

Idk what's up with the aggression man, I'm sorry if I hit a nerve

[fervent kayak]

Just seems odd to me

[jade laurel]

im literally crying

[frank saffron]

Don’t

[jade laurel]

but the suggestion threads 😭

[fresh stump]

I'm just having fun talking about it

We both keep saying the exact same thing

[rare blade]

also if we realize
this game isnt like COD or other live service games

10k really isnt alot if this game somehow has a lifespan of 5-10 years (tho doubtful after EA lol)
i mean shit even before EA we had people with 1000s of hours on the game just on the playtest alone

and with how long the games been out (not including playtest hours)
most people who stay should average 500+ atleast

fuck it let tencent take over so we can buy the skins now!

[fresh stump]

So I don't think anything will change lol

[jade laurel]

PIN IT! LOCK IT UP! ITS OVER

[fresh stump]

Darth man, you're kind of annoying lol. I'ma dip

[frank saffron]

Tencent

[jade laurel]

byeee

[frank saffron]

My god

Tencent

[rare blade]

TENCENT!!!

[frank saffron]