Support Velocity

[ebon cloud]

LMG's and LSW's should have equal or higher velocity than their AR counterparts. That is all.

[grand cedar]

Agreed, M249 versus M4 velocity is a good example of this problem

[ember basin]

++

Oki pls 🥺

[rapid beacon]

i need this, now

[west loom]

Fair

[late jasper]

@lusty blaze I desire your reason on going no

(sees steve typing for a while & gets curious)

[lusty blaze]

Balance for these weapons =/= real to life. We all know that these guns have faster muzzle velocity, but they would be very strong depending on how much velocity you're giving them. Further explanation would be needed and numbers would need to be compared before Id say yes to something like this. I am safe to assume that these numbers would be a big difference from their current values, that is what I basing my 'X' on.

Are we doing this for the sake of realism, or the sake of the guns seriously need to be buffed because they are currently too hard to shoot at from far distance? Cause if we're going down the realistic route here we cant cherry pick gun stats. Or else we would have a huge issue with other guns being 'realistic'. We would also just have a mismatch of random realistic stats and non-realistic. Consistency in this game is key here when we're dealing with guns.

[coral pilot]

They need to stop allowing anyone to make suggestions

[late jasper]

All Support guns do 600 velocity (equal to the famas) excluding the L86 at 650

while sporting Double (2x ; 100m) the max damage range of the average AR (50m)

to use a example

[lusty blaze]

Okay, so with these numbers you're saying Support guns have 600m/s and have double the max range of ARs. Am i correct here?

[modern thistle]

Support weapons already excel at range, I dont know why they would need a velocity buff.

[late jasper]

to my knowledge of the ARs, only the famas & afew others have 600 velocity

most are 700+

so doing a basic role comparison (M249 (600) M4 (700) , Ultiamax (600) Aug (900), and HK419 (700) L86 (650))

[rapid beacon]

they would if they had velocity...

[late jasper]

gave numbers below

for all but one support gun

[still oriole]

out of the two only the ultimax can do that because of low recoil

also shouldnt this dont aply to lsws?

[lusty blaze]

Ok thank you i see them

[still oriole]

they are more close range encounters than lmgs

[late jasper]

100m max damage range same as LMGs oddly enough

[still oriole]

the bipod being a way to make them better at ranges but not that effective

[late jasper]

but you can see Steve the velocities are kinda, off

as in across the board slower

[lusty blaze]

So 100ms+ for m249, 300ms+ for Ultimax, and 50ms+ for HK. Is what you'd want?

[late jasper]

didn't say that, simply did comparisons

because currently 600 velocity is the Famas for reference in ARs

[lusty blaze]

Well you're agreeing with the post, so you want the velocity to be above AR's counterparts correct?

[late jasper]

I would settle with 700 on most of them

[charred sphinx]

Yeah 700 is a decent number

[still oriole]

i kinda dont agree on lsws ngl, just sounds like something you will rarely be using, and i dont think making them be good in both ranges is a good ideia

[lusty blaze]

Well OP would have to agree and change his post to match that first of all.

[late jasper]

well he said match ARs in a generic way

[still oriole]

lmgs i fully agree

atleast those that are built for mid and long ranges

[charred sphinx]

So like 700-660 ish range

[still oriole]

if we ever get a close range only

[late jasper]

and warmou I would say a velocity buff for MG36 would be nice

[still oriole]

i would wait until drum mags buff

it can be a huge buff and make the weapon just really strong

[lusty blaze]

So both are you are in agreement of 660-700m/s for the change?

[still oriole]

lmgs yes,

for lsws is getting in a kinda of a argument by now

[charred sphinx]

Yeah, LMGs could use more consistency at longer ranges

As long as they can't pass over like 750 I'm cool with that

[lusty blaze]

Sorry im just trying to get the real numbers to give an honest opinion.

[still oriole]

660-700 sounds cool to me

basically either a 100+ or 60+ buff

[rapid beacon]

700 for m249 and 750 for the ultimax as it's intended for longer ranges

[still oriole]

nice argument but close to no recoil

[late jasper]

I am up for those numbers

[charred sphinx]

750 with attachments is fine imo

[still oriole]

750 sounds like too much for me

[late jasper]

600 rpm at 4 tap

[charred sphinx]

Because you're usually giving up a lot for that velocity, and majority of the playerbase is gonna find that kind of a tall order

[still oriole]

actually cant we go to 700 with the compesator?

iirc

i rarely go to attachments after i choose one

[charred sphinx]

no fucking clue tbh

[still oriole]

so i might be wrong af

[late jasper]

I am unsure why 750 is too much on the max

[rapid beacon]

660 is max on the ultimax

[late jasper]

last I checked aug has low recoil as well

[still oriole]

so like a 60% buff

im bad at math

[late jasper]

10%

[rapid beacon]

10%

[charred sphinx]

AUG also has low(ish) damage and fire rate, so you have to mix in heads to do well with it

[late jasper]

So the max has 600 rpm (same as aug) with 29 damage if I recall

[still oriole]

how about a 660 buff? you can go to 720 with the compesator

[rapid beacon]

and that funks with your recoil mind you, on a gun you need to use at range to get value out of 💀

[abstract thorn]

geez 750?

[still oriole]

if my math is correct

[abstract thorn]

maybe 730 ish?

[rapid beacon]

your math is incorrect af
same for your attachments
660 base velocity + lb/long sup you'd end up at 726

[still oriole]

that sounds good tbh

[rapid beacon]

and both of those fuck up your recoil, on the ultimax...

[still oriole]

puting a bipod can work on that

[abstract thorn]

yeah making the bipod more appealing would be a good idea

[rapid beacon]

now look at how the ultimax is used, tac barrel + bipod + 2x past 50m up to 150m and you see how that goes side ways

[lusty blaze]

• M249 600m/s
• Ultiamax 600m/s
• L86 650m/s
• Mg36 600m/s
  So those are the current guns stats. You guys need to come up with numbers you all agree on before i can even say anything

[charred sphinx]

Idk about NEED but if you're not it's definitely harder to make work if your skull taps aren't on point within 40m

[mighty echo]

Bipod has actually big problems with consistency when it's on a texture

[still oriole]

yah

[still oriole]

i see it being shit in windowns

[mighty echo]

The buff was good but not enough imo, it's "playable" now even if it's super clunky

[still oriole]

prone and on a sandbag can work and i never had a problem

wit is why i bring c4 to just blow up the windown

[charred sphinx]

Ulti being 720 with attachments is fine imho

Especially since its a rank 100 gun

[still oriole]

i would trow you into the mud if this was before the extra xp after winning and weekly challenges

[mighty echo]

I don't understand the rank logic

[still oriole]

what a grindfest that was

took me 80 hours to reach 100 lmao

[lusty blaze]

• M249 600m/s +100?
• Ultiamax 600m/s +100?
• L86 650m/s +10?
• Mg36 600m/s +60?
  Is that what the current idea is?

[rapid beacon]

makes sense yeah

[late jasper]

Okay checked aug

[still oriole]

sounds better yeah

[charred sphinx]

Given it's literally the last LMG and the only one for a good while (until we get more) , there's nothing wrong with letting it be a smidge stronger in regards to range as a outlier

[late jasper]

600 rpm at 31 vs the max's 600 at 29

[still oriole]

what is the 31 and 29

[late jasper]

damage

[still oriole]

ohh

[late jasper]

equally the aug has a longer max damage range

[rapid beacon]

although 700+ on the ultimax would be warranted seeing as it's basically an aug lmg designed to work at longer ranges

[lusty blaze]

you guys wanna react to my post so I can follow what u guys want?

[late jasper]

with 900 velocity to the max's 600 currently

[still oriole]

also isnt the aug getting nerfed?

[charred sphinx]

Yeah that seems fine

[mighty echo]

?

[rapid beacon]

up the ultimax velocity to over 700 and then we're talking

[late jasper]

aug is getting a light vehicle damage nerf

[rapid beacon]

only in light vehicle dmg

[still oriole]

#dev-wip message

[charred sphinx]

Just light armor damage if I recall

[still oriole]

oh wow

[late jasper]

So infantry wise, same effect

[still oriole]

definetly will change something

[late jasper]

But Aug
31 damage at 600 rpm, 900 velocity & around 150m max damage range

Max
29 dmg at 600 rpm, 600 velocity & 100m max damage range

I feel 750 velocity is fair

[still oriole]

oh just noticed it kinda goes against the 60+ buff on velocity that makes your go to 720 with long barrel

kinda prefer this one over the 100 on the max and m249

even if you dont want to use long barrel a buff is a buff and you are almost on pair with ars

[lusty blaze]

There's a lot of factors that go into things for a game dev. They have to look at the good and bad when it comes to any update. Can you guys bring up any negative correlations to this buff? Have you guys compared every stat for these guns to their counterparts, and to the rest of the guns in the game?

[late jasper]

Otherwise for fun
Famas
26 at 900 rpm
600 velocity

[lusty blaze]

Thats not every stat, you cant leave out information, everything is effected by buffs

[still oriole]

the only negative for lmgs is basically making them have the potential to be amazing in medium ranges with can lead to some unbalace
lsws for me it will make them be good in both medium CQC weapons with considering we are geting stuff like g3 and scar h can make some ''this is better than that, no reason to use''

again for the negetive thats what i think

positive i just see as that it will make lmgs actually be more effective in mid ranges and some threat to shoot targets that are on the move, and make this playstyle more consistence

[mighty echo]

uping their velocity +100ms will not change the meta or anything about them, it'll be slightly "better" to use that's all

[still oriole]

how do you say concistence

consistency

[lusty blaze]

@mighty echo so you're saying there is 0 down sides to this buff, and how it effects the game?

[urban falcon]

comparison in stats largely does show them as underwhelming when compared to their AR counterparts. Mainly what you see is "equal" recoil with higher horizontal, an understandably longer reload with a not so understandable "empty" reload, lower velocity, higher range, lower runspeed and ADS, and largely everything else is about on par, give or take some more QoL stats like control or muzzle flash (which tends worse)

[mighty echo]

Yeah, you can actually have this buff on every LSW or LMG it'll not change anything, just be more convenient to use, LSW and LMG have ADS problems, low RoF and worse dmg long range compared to H-AR (scar, fal, etc)

[urban falcon]

Helicopters are in danger of getting hit more and tracking is made a little easier at higher range but neither of those are game changing, nor are they the best option considering you have DMRs in their current state

[mighty echo]

people are already using H-AR for that, I guess M249/Ultimax enjoyer will have also a little more fun on helis

[urban falcon]

After the recent AR buffs, the LSWs are only left further in the dust, while LMGs lost heavy barrel just like everyone else making M249 worse against armor and the ultimax is whatever

[lusty blaze]

@urban falcon you're part of the balance team, right?

[mighty echo]

the LB was not the best attachment for LMG in general and was way more picked on AR

[rapid beacon]

hb on ak74, lb on fal

[mighty echo]

lb on fal?

[late jasper]

So I do recall the L86 with LB

[mighty echo]

ah yeah that was the name not HB

Fal was also played with FH, and FH get buffed idk why

making it even stronger

[late jasper]

FH is quite nice now to be honest

But this is getting off the point

[mighty echo]

Sure, now it's the best attachment on many weapons, the buff was unecessary

[late jasper]

LMG(& Possibly LSW) Velocity buffs

[mighty echo]

.

[solid mist]

Sorta off topic but the new coming rpk is a LSW correct

[lusty blaze]

So what you guys have told me this buff has 0 down sides. Essentially a QOl feature.

[mighty echo]

What's your assumption?