Fix 1frame dead plz

[fallow hollow]

Hey, everybody. Please pay attention to the huge problem of deaths in 1 frame.

I see in chat how players call others cheaters, because they in turn kill them in 1 frame.

Pro players and semi pro players are leaving the project because the game is painful to play. The game does not behave fairly. You never know, coming out with an opponent face to face, whether you will die or not. That's the way it should be, you may argue. But not when the enemy has a slow AUG and you have an mp7 machine gun one of the best at close range. When all bullets hit you in 1 frame. This didn't happen in test, this didn't happen on release.

It's a curse on every server. Community server or official, it's everywhere, it's constant, it's literally every 2nd death.

Also the answer to "fix the internet". I have a stable connection 60-70 ping on Europe, 300mbps speed. I have no problems in other games.

https://youtu.be/dU6l4po0yKM?si=aPwDo5CwmORtnxdW

https://youtu.be/Yv7JVK5AHL0?si=TVoepW0ZRnMgIFX2

https://youtu.be/L6LNcepCaLU?si=kS09BoPXayWQw4XJ

https://youtu.be/WgIbjx7DaTo?si=jLSAZUwFXnk-mRLd

[slate stratus]

The same kind of bullshit that is already very boring.

[hazy yacht]

Same thing. Sometimes in a match, for unknown reasons, you get shot in a second. The ping is stable at 60. There are no records of such moments, but they happen quite often, as you can see, I’m not the only one with same problem(((

[pliant tangle]

yeah, sometimes you get 1 shotted by a random ass AR when it should've been like 4 shots

[robust warren]

yeah i got this kind of problem too, just died instantly by some gun that needs more than 1 bullet to kill even headshot

[fallow hollow]

When you start paying attention to it, it's creepy how often it happens

[frosty ore]

I have the same issue

I play engineer most of the time and rpg shots don't register

https://youtu.be/y6c5WwKMrOI

this has been happening for a long time and its the reason I don't play

we installed fibre optic cables a month ago and internet is super fast

[fallow hollow]

yes yes, understandable response from the developer, but it's just everybody's. I want to show with this topic that this is far from isolated cases. It's just like a virus

[frosty ore]

I have made multiple attempts to show him that and he just respounds with
its your connection you have to fix it your self

[frosty ore]

god damn

[fallow hollow]

so we need to show the massive problem

[frosty ore]

you can try but I don't think he will respond differently

[fallow hollow]

A lot of skilful guys left just because of that. I consider myself an above average player. And I fight every day with the desire to delete the game from the computer because of another 1frame unfair death, when you run around the flank for a long time, come in the back and die for 1 bullet from a guy in the bush

[fallow hollow]

At least something

[velvet kelp]

networking going insane

[gentle depot]

Your bandwidth is fast but your latency is awful, 170ms just for a speed test is very poor

[frosty ore]

well people are using the wifi as well

[tribal yacht]

it could be packet burst sending multiple bullet in one

happened with ea release ak15

[cursive marsh]

600% more bullets per bullet

[gentle depot]

I know but that still means it's probably your internet

In your case anyway, @fallow hollow 's looks fine

[frosty ore]

this plan is already kinda expensive, if we upgrade we can barely afford food xd

[fallow hollow]

When we play in voice, someone else's every death is accompanied by ***** died again in 1frame. My internet is more than okay.

[gentle depot]

I'm assuming you're connecting to EU servers, what's your latency to the actual server?

[fallow hollow]

If it's about the internet, why was everything great in the tests, it was great in the EA release, but then something abruptly went wrong. I didn't change the internet.
my ping 60-70. In a couple of videos, I show this several times

People from my clan with a ping of 30 also have a deadly 1 frame

[gentle depot]

So I think this might be due to the packet fix Oki put in probably maybe(?).

If I remember correctly, previously the shooter was at a latency disadvantage, now due to prioritizing hit packets they have an advantage.

Someone with bad latency shoots you, all their hit packets get prioritized, you feel nothing because they're laggy in being received from the shooter.

[fallow hollow]

When there was a server from RED with a host in my country, I had a ping of 20 and still I was constantly catching deaths in 1 frame

[gentle depot]

Suddenly they all are received at once and you die out of nowhere

[fallow hollow]

Before Oki fixes there were problems with registration of your hits on enemies and there were deaths in 1 frame.

After the fixes registration has improved, it's true, but deaths in 1 frame have not disappeared, they have been haunting us for months and still haunting us

[gentle depot]

What I'm saying is it might not be a you problem, it might be guy shooting you who's playing from his shack in the Chernobyl exclusion zone over soviet-era phone cables

Oki used to have an enforced ping limit but people complained they couldn't play so they relaxed it

[steep flicker]

1 copper thread unprotected 1layer

[gentle depot]

As much as Oki can be bashed for stuff, I don't think he's responsible for this, and it's just the nature of having so many players in one game

[steep flicker]

I feel the same thing, similar thing with soviet, best internet provider what you can get here, and I die to 1-2 shots due to an SMG from 50 meters.
In other games I have nothing similar to this.

[fallow hollow]

My understanding is that the enemy probably sees me earlier and starts shooting at me before I even see him. In the 1st clip you can clearly see that the sapport shoots somewhere to the side, I see him shoot to the side, but a split second later I die, and only after that his model turns to me.

In the video you can see that they shoot at the place where I was a while ago and I die already like this guy's future.

[steep flicker]

Before EAC the game felt more raw and not having a random killing you in one grach shot

[gentle depot]

Yea, I know

[fallow hollow]

I also check the guys who kill me like this, they have an average ping of 20 to 100.

[gentle depot]

In fairness, some of those kills you've posted I wouldn't even put in the 1-frame death category, it looks more like you run up and they hit every shot with a low TTK weapon

[fallow hollow]

I found one FR server, there is almost perfect hit registration and almost no deaths in 1 frame. I could feel every hit on me there. Magic? The server is 127 by 127, not even 32 by 32 and they're fine. Too bad I don't see it in search for a couple days.

[gentle depot]

Not all though, some are obviously latency

[solar urchin]

Respectfully bro that is not super fast internet

[gentle depot]

Don't bandwidth-shame

[gentle depot]

I find that community servers running on decent hardware do play better than the official servers

[frosty ore]

it is considered fast internet here xd, idk about other countries

[solar urchin]

I am not bandwidth shaming

[gentle depot]

I don't think official servers are on amazing specs

[fallow hollow]

#1174710258778775592 message

[fallow hollow]

It was the only server. On the others things can be even worse than on the official ones

https://youtu.be/z-rfq810f20?si=_omA8gKlFvBvwnXb

the beginning on the district was recorded, I think on El taberna.

But that's until Okie fixes hit registration

[gentle depot]

That looks like the server just lost those packets

[torn flume]

OneFrame Remastered

[gentle depot]

If it was your client losing the packets, you'd get a big angry warning in the corner

The fact that it clears up later makes it seem like it's an intermittent issue

[tiny crater]

Your hit was denied due to packet loss Remastered

[gentle depot]

Ah if you have local packet loss, that's on you

[tiny crater]

Just joke

[fallow hollow]

By the way, also noticed and I'm not the only one. That after major updates, as if deaths in 1 frame and the quality of registration, the first couple days after the update, much better than later. And than now.

[gentle depot]

It's anecdotal but yea I feel that

[fallow hollow]

I wouldn't berate the game if this problem was with me all the time, both in tests, and in the early days of EA, and in the early days of updates, in other games and shooters. If my youtube took a long time to load, after all. I pay not a small amount of money for good and stable internet, not wifi. But constantly dying from 1frames. Pinging guys will be in any game until everyone has 7g internet. But 1 frame deaths are just beyond. They weren't there, they showed up. I love this game and don't want to delete it because my nerves are shot every time I die in 1 frame

If it didn't happen, then I believe it can be fixed.

[gentle depot]

This is gonna sound shitty and I don't mean it in that way so please don't take it that way, but you can lessen the issue by engaging from further away. Pretty much all my 1-frame deaths are when I'm knife-fighting with pp2000 or groza and running very fast

[fallow hollow]

Oh, so you have them, too.

[gentle depot]

If I switch to support or assault and fight further away it's much less of an issue, maybe because distance?

[fallow hollow]

I agree that most of these deaths occur at close range. But I have nothing to compare it to, since I am a close range player or sniper. But sometimes I can catch a death in 1 frame while running from point to point, but it happens rarely, yes. Mostly close

[gentle depot]

That's usually m200 lol

[fallow hollow]

Huh, no) I have other complaints about the m200)

[gentle depot]

Yea I said I have had it before

[fallow hollow]

I'm sorry, I'm just noticing now

[gentle depot]

What I'm saying is I think it might just be a limitation of the game based on the number of players + the engine being used

It might be fixable by throwing more network/computing resources at the servers but that's expensive

[fallow hollow]

But it didn't happen, it sometimes goes away, it's there on small servers too...

and again, the FR server somehow did it, too.

[gentle depot]

I've always had it happen since day1

Sometimes it's better sometimes it's worse

[fallow hollow]

Maybe I didn't notice with EA, but on tests I'm sure I encountered it a lot less often. I even praise netcode to all my friends

[gentle depot]

As someone who deals with this shit daily for other things, if you really want to help them try and collect as many logs as possible

Run network logs while you're playing and save them against clips of when it happens, along with the server you're on

There may be an intermittent bug somewhere that's dumping packets and is very hard to track down

[fallow hollow]

Would it help if I enabled the display of network stats in the game?

So that she can be seen in the clips

[gentle depot]

That wouldn't be the worst, as long as they show latency, stability and packet loss

At the very least, it would rule it out being a client-side issue

[fallow hollow]

I will, and I'm campaigning for everyone to do so. We have to make this great game better. Hooray, comrades.

[gentle depot]

That sounds like gommunism to me

[fallow hollow]

Hopefully Oki will see this thread and pay attention to it

[gentle depot]

Collate enough info then post in game-bugs

[fossil quail]

If I hadn’t deleted all my clips I could make a montage with 100+ 1 frame deaths. I have 80 up/down

[opaque warren]

https://youtu.be/bzuN2egZLpc

there's a not to much here but i don't care

[sweet kindle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgTzT4fevMA

[modest sonnet]

the 1 frame death happened to me since the hitmarker update; no problem before (unless the server had problem) and its happen on both EU and NA servers (playing from EU)

[sacred notch]

Dang and I thought I was just having a skill issue

[modest sonnet]

no way its a "your connexion issue" thing (connection to a random server 600km away, from france to germany)

[hazy yacht]

same hahahaha

[cursive marsh]

yea getting tired of being sped killed in cqc without seeing a dam thing

[vivid raven]

Out of curiosity, is this on official servers? I'm getting the absolute worst issues from 1frames to half second delays on triggering C4 but only on them, also EU

[cursive marsh]

it's both

[deep verge]

We really want to provide the best experience but on battlebit is really hard ! All update destroy more the game. We can't Host servers on linux, We are stuck on windows... Really waiting for optimisation... I hope before my death

[fallow hollow]

Everywhere(

[cursive marsh]

huh? But it works flawlessly on linux, am I missing something?

[vague jay]

Huh, i guess it wasnt just me that noticed it

I'll admit, i had issues with being killed ridiculously quickly but as far as i remember it was never as drastic as in those clips

On my end at least it happens but never often enough that it feels like bs all the time

It happens roughly once a game

If it even happens

I'll try and pay attention to it

[fallow hollow]

I may have it a couple times per game, or every other death. I try to pick the most obvious moments in my clips

[fallow hollow]

What kind of internet do you have, if it's no secret?

What is the ping on the servers

[vague jay]

Wifi
I have no specifics as of now cause im renting out the place im at
And wifi came with it
I can tell you this, the ping is around 55-70
Occasionally dips but nothing much

I'll look into it more in the following days

[fallow hollow]

Maybe now you'll notice more often😅

[vague jay]

Yeah lol

I'll try paying attention to it more

[thorny turret]

Most of the clips here are not 1 frame kills, it just the TTK is really fast, same as how you kill people in videos, it's really fast, no time to react.

Additional update towards updating hits etc were done to maximize as much as possible, the rest is literally fast TTK and people's connection unstabilities (not bandwidths)

If you guys don't like this TTK, will have to conveice one community server to host double HP or something

[maiden vault]

I dont mind a double health community server, but bandages must be increased in health heal too yes?

[fossil quail]

These are the only 1 frames I've seen hamsterrave link. There are a lot that are nearly 1 frames but that's just what happens when someone is able to hit 2-5 shots in a row on you. Definitely try to minimize how much you expose yourself when you peak and try playing faster using movement, lots of these deaths seem to be from poor movement when normally you'd get the opportunity to fight back if you make them miss.
#1174710258778775592 message *edit actually not a 1 frame, but close enough
#1174710258778775592 message
#1174710258778775592 message not a 1 frame, but showcases wack prone animation

That said, 1 frames do happen to me from m110 and mp7 maybe once in a 3-5 hour session. I think it's just inevitable when there are are 254 players in 1 server.

[tribal yacht]

Shots 1-5:

[pliant tangle]

"its just the fast ttk" when he gets 1 shotted by a fucking ACR, oh wait he doesn't play the game nvm

[fallow hollow]

If we're using low ttk as an argument. Why do I need to spend noticeably more time killing an enemy on my screen than he does on me. Like in my nighttime examples. For example. Yeah, mb it's not. Death in 1 frame. But all the bullets hit me just unrealistically fast. I don't kill people like that with the fastest guns. Why not? My internet's awesome. I just refuse to believe it's because of it. I'm getting bullets from 0.2 seconds away at 0.00001 second intervals each. Okay that's not death in 1 frame. That's 4-5 hits on me in 1 frame. You could call it that.

It's still not normal. And I'll say it again. It wasn't before. Things used to be much more comfortable and predictable in terms of hits on you. Now I catch a bullet and immediately die, and the Next one flies next, which the enemy has hit me and I don't have on my screen. Again, this has never happened before and it's not my paranoia, my ISP is stable. That's why I included network stats in the post. That's why a lot of people have already agreed with this post. That it's not our internet, that it's never happened before, that it's painful and unpleasant to play because of it. I do not want to ttk above, but why do I feel that the game is not fair to me, I played a bunch of shooters and did not meet this, even with a ping of 150, with such a ring guys teleported , yes, but even so from them you felt every bullet. It was not, but it appeared, even if it is not called 100% death in one shot, it is already on a very thin line with it

Already a bunch of good players are gone. That hurts me. Because people who are good players feel that difference between "you hit a guy" and "he hits you back".

How I get outgunned by guys with slow guns at close range, even though the math says they shouldn't 99.9 times. Yes it may not be pure death in 1 shot. But very, very close to it

😢

[fallow hollow]

It also really hurts to see a bunch of people see a problem, agree with it, and the developer discounts it for a problem in the players. I get angry at this kind of ignoring. People above wrote that they've already brought this up. But we're still suffering. The core mechanics of the shooter don't work properly. In night examples why I got wiped in a nanosecond, but there were no packet loss. How am I supposed to play this if the game is biased against me. And the developer writes that I'm having internet problems when it's white on black that I'm not. I'm wildly enjoying the game, but my god, I'm just getting burned out

[fallow hollow]

Your explanation. Even if it's not a 1-frame death, which visually it is. It's still not normal. Too abnormal

[fallow hollow]

With ttk it's ok, but you feel the difference with the time it takes to kill someone and how they kill you. A lot of times it's just not commensurate in time.

[fallow hollow]

I have to hit four or five times. The guy hits me 2 times. But the results are the same. Even if it's not death in 1 frame. 2<5

[fallow hollow]

Also, please note the Survivorship bias. I don't show the usual deaths, which are certainly there. But why is there this along with the normal ones?

Here's an example of a normal death.

[thorny turret]

@fallow hollow Perfect ping, local server, 2 players, 60hz

TTK will be different based on armor, where player hits, weapon, and at last, if you have connection instabilities with server. It doesn't has to be you or server being unstable, the path between you and server can be unstable based on where you live, what ISP you use and so on with many factors

[pliant tangle]

not like this only started happening and only in your game or something, imagine if that was the case /s

[thorny turret]

watch the video I recorded

[next notch]

BBR, the game for potato PCs with gigabit ethernet

[opaque warren]

On oki video at least we can see how screen turning red with every shot

On our examples - no

[vivid raven]

Or maybe armor could stop being a meme that becomes useless after a single encounter and doesn't even prevent damage effectively thanks to limb 100% damage so players who don't want to permanently run around like crackheads are also allowed to enjoy the game.

[next notch]

This is the main point of this thread i think

[opaque warren]

It feels like 4 bullets builds into one da hell

[thorny turret]

if your connection is little bit unstable, what I mean by unstable is, if your packets are delivering faster and slower and faster and slower, not consistent, in any game where the TTK is fast, you will feel same way

in games where you have slow TTK, this is not felt because the death time is in seconds, not miliseconds, so unstable connection does not affect that level

[thorny turret]

Are you sure?

1

2

3

4

5

[thorny turret]

here is the video you guys posted lol

[opaque warren]

Well, maybe at least we can see changes between second and last shot

At the start of early access this one frames was not felt. With the update of hit registration, has it really become better and the TTK has decreased, or have people just learned to hit everything? Don't even know

[thorny turret]

start of the early access, most was playing bad, that's no longer the case

there are much more try hards in this game than before

[fallow hollow]

Your example really feels every hit, not like they add up 1 to 1. and instead of 4 you get 2.

[fallow hollow]

on my screen, it's a fraction of the time, the guy comes around the corner, I'm lying in the screen of death.

[vivid raven]

So it's pretty clear that not all of the examples posted show actual 1frames. And you've also explained that they can indeed happen due to unavoidable networking factors. Doesn't change the underlying fact that it does not lead to enjoyable gameplay (at least for a nontrivial group of players) and "just make community servers" isn't a serious answer when most non-US regions can barely sustain a couple of full servers on regular modes.

Armor is one knob that already exists in the game and can be tuned to give players who want longer TTK an experience closer to what they want without forcing a global raise in TTK. And this is something that support players have been asking for a long time.

[thorny turret]

if it's unenjoyable for you guys, the literal only fix is double HP servers

[fallow hollow]

I've thrown in more examples for today's session.

[thorny turret]

you kill people in miliseconds, you get killed in miliseconds, depending on connection stability, it can differ time to time but there is no solution except slow TTK servers

the screen kick was reduced because it was too much, now, it's harder to feel if you get shot or not

[thorny turret]

High HP Armors makes TTK much more inconsistent

we had high HP armors before EA long time before at playtest times

[opaque warren]

Maybe if you add a parameter in the settings that is responsible for the blood on the screen with each hit, something will change? Maybe with an increase in this parameter the feeling of death in one frame will disappear? What do you guys think?

[fallow hollow]

as far as the skill of the players is concerned. I also get killed by guys with 2/10, 3/15 scores. They are objectively weak guys. When I see them miss on me, but bam. I'm down.

[thorny turret]

what you see on your screen vs what they do on their screen is not realtime synced due to latency

[fallow hollow]

To summarize. There is a problem and a lot of people are pissed off about it, something has to be done about it. (Separate servers for amateurs is not an option)

[opaque warren]

Why do I ask? In the screenshot of Oki with the first hit, almost no blood is visible; you have to look closely. At the same time, not everyone likes to look at a red screen

[thorny turret]

I don't like using but it's 80% skill issue, 20% actual issue but connection instability + fast TTK which nothing can be done except either hosting servers at your country while unfavoring other players or playing on slower TTK servers

[vivid raven]

I've seen a lot of decisions being justified on the basis of playtests but the fact of the matter is whichever group of people that was is very different from the nearly 90k+ peak players that the game reached, and a lot of it was based around the promise of teamwork-based gameplay that the Steam page still advertises.

Either way, the game is still EA and testing new things while clearly communicating that these may not be permanent changes sounds reasonable to me. Most people agree one way or another that the gameplay still feels confused/half-baked across milsim and CoD.

[thorny turret]

Game has almost all tools for teamwork, only difference is, we don't enforce and punish players if they don't want to play as team, rather let them choose.

[gentle depot]

I'm in agreement with Oki, but I am curious about one thing.

Ham posted a video where he rinsed someone but they didn't die, and there wasn't a big warning in the corner saying your packets have been dropped etc.

Any idea why that might happen? I've seen it before as well.

[thorny turret]

Yes there are games where if you are not playing as team, you are being punished and generally left over, where you need couple friends to enjoy the game.

[fallow hollow]

By the way in CoD low ttk but no such problems, haven't noticed such problems in Bf either. My memory may be failing me, but I don't think I've ever noticed it

[gentle depot]

I take it the damage has to go from server -> hit player to register?

[thorny turret]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGJNJnEgX64&ab_channel=PyroskFPS

[fallow hollow]

So I've been playing on good servers

[next notch]

i watched the vieo, ttk is slower than BBR, the video is 3 years old too

[fallow hollow]

Again, we have FR server, where such problems I feel a lot less than on other servers

[thorny turret]

Only fix is literally slower TTK servers for you guys

[vivid raven]

May want to update this then

[fallow hollow]

But I don't like slow ttk. 😢

[fossil quail]

It can be very hard to tell how many times you've been shot / how much damage you've taken.

[gentle depot]

Sorry you're objectively wrong, I love your game but it straight up doesn't

[thorny turret]

that's accurate, there is nothing change, we encourage players to play teamwork and reward more when played as team as XP wise and generally coordinated play makes the round won

[gentle depot]

It has bare bones communication tools

[thorny turret]

You have voip, map, objective markers, chat

map drawing etc it in todo list, which weird enough, not joking, I was literally implementing this week

but we will see tons of people drawing d*ks and 99% not using it

[fallow hollow]

There is a lack of variation in markers, by the way. Imho

[thorny turret]

we had much more complex and detailed, not a single person used it, it was too much

had to delete the entire thing and make it keep it simple

[fossil quail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkrB69AcFSg

[gentle depot]

VoIP: yea it's ok as long as you speak the same language
Map: not a communication tool, you can't communicate with, there isn't even coordinates
Objective markers: you can attack/defend and that's it, as long as you're not actually on the point already
Chat: kind of a joke, no squad priority, also see VoIP

[fallow hollow]

Just a few choices. "Let's go this way." "That's where the enemy is." That's all we need. You can't always hit the enemy with your sights to put a red marker on them

[thorny turret]

we had cordinates, nobody used it, people complained it just useless lines on screen, we removed it until hardcore gamemode

[fossil quail]

Squad spawning being better than rally point hurts inter squad teamwork loads.

[gentle depot]

Sorry Oki that's along with the pings are a UX skill issue, both are well used and liked communication methods throughout the genre

[next notch]

dont pings only work for your squad

[gentle depot]

But that's way beyond scope of this thread and I don't wanna bash you out of nowhere

[thorny turret]

the ping wheel we had was concept, it would be much better if anyone would use it, but nobody used it in this game because this game is not SQUAD

nor Arma

[fossil quail]

yep, I'd imagine this would be squad only as well

[fallow hollow]

Ok guys, my thread is about death in 1 frame, don't flood please. 😅 (It's a joke, talking to the developer is always a good thing.)

[thorny turret]

99% of the players were playing as alone guy just came here to play couple of rounds, they didn't care about team work nor any tools we were providing

[gentle depot]

That's 100% fine if you want to cater to them, just don't say you have all the tools to enable teamwork

[fallow hollow]

#1174710258778775592 message
#1174710258778775592 message

Back to the sick one. Can you comment on these clips, please

[thorny turret]

You definitely have, back in teamspeak times, when I wanted to play as team, just ability to speak people was enough for me

I played enough hardcore - milsim games to be aware what tools are required. Can it be improved, 100%, but it's bare bone + is there

[gentle depot]

Yea I feel that, what's there us usable

Maybe the ping system could get another look now we're out of EA and in beta

[fallow hollow]

#1174710258778775592 message

I started shooting at the guy first, gave him damage but died from 1 bullet. In the first video.

[vivid raven]

I don't think that's what most players actually feel. Either way, you obviously have a clear vision for what you want to make with this game and I respect that. You also seem to have clear reasons for why things have or have not been implemented, so it's probably best if you could just lay out a more explicit roadmap + FAQ so players suggesting things that won't be considered don't feel ignored. And then you don't have to spend your energy in this sort of 1-on-1's constantly, which most players won't see anyway.

[thorny turret]

I did implement most of them

however, I seen the result

people just didn't use

it's not the ping thing, I am meaning other things as well

we deleted or simplified tons of features just sake of trying to make it more usable

[vivid raven]

I'm referring right now about feedback threads like Armor, people have been asking for non-breaking armor for a while in there but what you said earlier seems to suggest that you won't consider such a change. The Frag RPG being completely useless is another example that people just keep asking/wondering about.

[fossil quail]

One problem with current coms that people rarely mention is that they are significantly delayed compared to using disc and especially ts. It makes giving callouts to teamates in such a fast paced game even more difficult than it already is with 3rd party voip. +enemy hears your squad coms

[thorny turret]

about armors being just additional HP, that would change gameplay bit too much

[fallow hollow]

frag grenade is too useful. There are 20 men standing on the point, each with at least 2 grenades. That's a little artillery in your pocket, jeez.

[thorny turret]

that is fair one

I had to delay to optimize bandwidth

[fossil quail]

Understandable yea, have to comprise somewhere.

[thorny turret]

I can adjust bit more to make it more close to realtime

[fallow hollow]

But you can try, you can gather feedback. Or make a poll, as was the case with the damage drop at a distance. The same EA can roll back the changes, I do not think that someone will be very angry. In the same APEX rolled out once the armor change and rolled back, no one died from it

[thorny turret]

The moment APEX did that armor change, so many people left the game

I also played APEX

[fallow hollow]

Suddenly it will fix 1-frame deaths? lol 😅

[vivid raven]

Sure, but up until now I had no idea that's what you think and it makes most discussions in the feedback thread feel kind of pointless. Another example is the abundance of C4 and in particular it's availability for Medics, which many people are also not supper happy about. And you probably already have an opinion on that as well. But it's not ideal that we have to go around fishing for your messages on these things when you could sit down with the team and some volunteers, go over the feedback threads and give some answers on these hot topics.

[fossil quail]

There's a lot to keep track of, can't speak for oki but I've been compiling feedback for a while now so it's nice to see discussions.

[vivid raven]

And if you do think better armor would break the game, at least give the option for every class to have no amor as an option. Otherwise it just feels punishing on classes like support to be permanently slowed for a one-time protection thing...

[fallow hollow]

But they put it back the way it was. I liked the change just fine.

[thorny turret]

I have tons of friends who didn't touch the apex since then

[thorny turret]

not break but create a disaster

similar to map voting one

currently it's very 50% 50%, some likes random weighted, some hates it

[fallow hollow]

It could be Survivorship bias

[thorny turret]

reddit

[fallow hollow]

Reddit isn't completely objective either

I still think trying it and rolling it back won't affect anything much. I've been seeing posts about armor recycling for a while now too

I've been reading this since I found out about Battlebit

[thorny turret]

Again, I feel like it's a big change and not sure how it will affect, I am not against to the idea it self, I am not sure the outcome of possible disaster if implemented

[fallow hollow]

Again, make a test server. try it out, gather feedback. It's definitely part of my fantasy. I think there are a lot more options on how this could be pulled off. Again with the damage drop for range, there was a pretty large percentage of players who were against it, but it didn't stop you, with armor stops. Why?

[vivid raven]

Agreed. If there was something like an official test server where these more controversial suggestions can be tried out and iterated on I would definitely love hopping on.

[thorny turret]

damage drop for range was just broken- unbalanced for weapon's classes

armor - hp is a choice rather than unbalanced

one was could be classified as a bug, one is a choice of gameplay

[fallow hollow]

But a lot of people were against it. The armor was partially broken, too

[thorny turret]

@fallow hollow we had tons of people hated the way our map voting was, there were tons of suggestions to change it with tons of votes,

we changed it multiple times to what suggested, eventually each was hated by some, and raised good amount of votes to change it

at end, we changed it back to what it was.

[fallow hollow]

I like that you stand up for your vision, but sometimes players who have a lot of time in the project suggest things that aren't bad.

[thorny turret]

I seen that, just because something is collecting a lot of votes doesn't mean people feel that way, there are alot of people who likes that thing that way and just don't vote and voice their concern the moment it's changed

[thorny turret]

I never said bad, I read suggestions, I was browsing the suggestions and replied to this thread

[fallow hollow]

But there were also those who liked it, it's just that their voices are not heard, because when you like everything - people keep quiet and get high, instead of expressing everything on the Internet. That's the problem with reviews

[vivid raven]

My personal impression about the hate on the lottery system was that it would allow 5% options to get picked, which never felt like it should happen. A compromise that just keeps the top voted options would work. Also, making it so runner-up maps in the vote are available in the next pool so things that are still reasonably popular get a chance to be played eventually. Many such ways to tweak things.

[fallow hollow]

Anyway, thank you so much for the replies

[fallow hollow]

Or take successful variants from other projectsI like the one from Insurgency

[thorny turret]

in short of this thread, I can attempt to improve the 1 frame deaths by maybe changing the sound when you get hit to something more noticeable or literally changing the TTK (which would be disaster because everyone used to this TTK)

but there is not much can be done in general.

[fallow hollow]

Any change is a good thing. Because it's forward movement. If you don't try it, you won't know. That's what I always tell my students at work)

[thorny turret]

If I were you, I would delete this message, the part 'Any change is a good thing'

[fallow hollow]

They are good when you reflect on them. Yes, with your great commitment to these changes, they can be disastrous. But again, there are variants of their applications and tests on narrow audiences.

[gentle depot]

Iteration is good

[plain pewter]

I think that 1frames come with input buffer damage update

[thorny turret]

input buffer vs damage are not related

[plain pewter]

Timelines are the same

[pliant tangle]

i mean you could make a damage buffer that only allows a certain amount of damage per frame/second/whatever to kind of artificially reduce 1frames/smooth them out into multiple frames

[gentle depot]

Unsure if that would make a difference, it would also need a ton of caveats around high-damage sources

[pliant tangle]

worth testing though?

[gentle depot]

I don't think that would be as quick an implementation as you'd think, you're basically asking the client to do an additional check every frame to see if they a) received damage on the frame before, b) did that damage meet a threshold and c) do I need to cap the damage this frame. If damage calc is done on the server side (Oki can confirm but I think it might be?) Then it has to do that for every player constantly.

[pliant tangle]

if it isn't serverside then imma send a totally unexplosive object his way /s
yeah i guess that calculation could be expensive but i have no idea tbh

[modest sonnet]

anyway, if you die faster than the absolute ttk of the ennemy weapon (inclued 100% headshot hit rate and 1v1 + server with good ping) there is something wrong somewhere

even if its not literally "one frame" the result is the same
being one shot/instant kill vs sniper or deagle (pre dmg nerf) is ok, but dying instantly vs slow weapon (like AUG) is wacky

and again, dying instantly wasnt a thing during PT

[thorny turret]

it's same servers, just more, same netcode except + additional hit reg fixes that each posted with #dev-wip

only difference is, people started to play better. On playtest, there was literally only 2 clans that were playing really good, now, that's no longer the case

[gentle depot]

Many shitters with MP7s

[modest sonnet]

being good dont make ppl able to one shot with 3/4 htk weapons

and when 1shot happen, i spectate the player for 2 min and often, they are not especially good at the game too

[vivid raven]

Could it just be that colder weather in the northern hemisphere -> more people spending time at home -> overall increase in network load causing spikier transmission? Because I am 100% seeing more 1frames than I used to and noticeable delays for C4 detonation even though nothing has changed on my end and the changes you've implemented should only be improving things.

[fallow hollow]

an example of a normal, appropriate death. Normal speed at low ttk

literally right here, from the same guy. Same server, same ping, same killer. But the first one's a normal death, and the second one. Convince me it's not a one-shot death.

[pliant tangle]

i mean it looks like you got hit in the head, it's not as convincing

[fallow hollow]

deaths in 1 frame hit me over the head mentally, with a hammer.

[vivid raven]

Man, some of the examples in this thread are clear 1frames but that's absolutely not one. You can just pause the video and scroll around to see you get the bandage text before dying.

I use Blender to examine clips frame by frame when I want to check things with 100% certainty, it's free to download in case you want to give that a go

[fallow hollow]

I'm already getting paranoid.

it's bad anyway, when you can't trust the game and have to check your deaths. Did you die because of the game or because of your lack of skill at the moment

[modest sonnet]

sometimes, its look like there is a delay between the damage and damage sfx

like you dont "feel" the 1/2 first bullet

or the game give you 2/3 bullet at once

[vivid raven]

This is another problem with armor. If it fully blocks the damage you don't actually get a damage indicator or nudge, so it's hard to tell you're even getting hit.

[modest sonnet]

like in this clip, the shot 1 and 2 miss on the left, buth the 3rd deal damage but the tracer show a miss

maybe just ruberbanding issue

[coarse stag]

p sure this is an issue on how the game does hit reg

it groups shots together iirc

so it appears like you die in one frame

which is still bullshit but whatever

[cursive marsh]

reason why I main recon, can avoid ttk, rpm match, an just bleed armor, though admittedly everyone is using the spawn protection barrier as a shield from being flanked, but then again what about those numskulls who pill box a building with a rally point just outside of spawn. (aka frugis,namak, ext)

[gentle depot]

The no-go areas are honestly cancer, just a sniper safety blanket

[cursive marsh]

pretty much especially for salhan where a sniper can just pill box that entire edge of their spawn zone, killzone had a nice choice of maps

Also "safety torch"

[vivid raven]

Makes it extra satisfying to countersnipe them tho. Pickage in Salhan gives you a lot of mileage with those pixel perfect snipes that nobody can tell where they got shot from.

Also you can still drone them

[livid kelp]

the smoke grenade launcher is super useful for denying snipers a vantage point over no man's land since you can shoot them so far

more people need to use them

[vivid raven]

it's good in principle but it's kinda crap in terms of ADS usability, smoke duration and size

smoke nades much better imo

[livid kelp]

also something to note about ttk appearing super high to you and low to others is inadvertently hitting their body armor THEN the head armor, because doing so basically wastes one of your shots

[livid kelp]

yeah, if it reloaded faster i would use it more, it only works well situationally

i would be happy if it had the same size cloud but just for less time than thrown smokes, cause right now you have to place it really well to conceal an angle properly

[vivid raven]

IMO I'd go +duration -reload speed route so it's not as spammable but can really work to provide effective cover for a non trivial amount of time

[livid kelp]

yea the fact that you can just quickly piss out some concealment in a pinch is super useful and should be more applicable

cause right now i only see like 2 use cases
-hiding yourself in a bad position to heal/revive
-blocking off an indoor area to force a push

which are only doable because of how fast it deploys

but anyways i don't think this is the thread for that

[fallow hollow]

Yeah yeah yeah, the game has the best internet connection and your internet connection is lousy, yeah yeah.

The guy bought a support paсk with armored glass.

You see the hits on yourself with a delay. As a consequence, you don't have time to react, and as a consequence, you can be killed instantly. I've seen a thousand times I hit my opponent with the first bullet and he immediately starts wriggling like a snake. With my "cheap" internet with a stable connection and ping 60-70, alas, there is no such possibility. So I have to move to the house where the server is located. After all, there are no problems in the game and it is the guys began to play very skillfully

the game has great servers, awesome Netcode that playing with a ping of 60 is simply impossible. I don't have the energy anymore

[livid kelp]

my ping averages 60 and only in the recent week has the server started getting really unstable connections, with frequent rubber-banding despite my ping not changing

can't confirm whether it's my internet or not but i do not think my wifi would suddenly crap out when playing bbr exclusively

game is becoming really hard to tolerate playing because i can play fine for a while only to realize i died 3 seconds ago

[fallow hollow]

I'm buying Battlefield right now. 👍

[livid kelp]

enjoy

[fallow hollow]

I made this comparison. Yes, it may not be the most accurate, but still. I compared the time frames on the timeline, how long it takes me to kill and how fast I die on my own screen. I counted from the moment the first hit appeared on the screen.

Proof that I trimmed exactly the moment I had a hit on my screen

And at the point of my shooting, I even gave a little head start.

[sacred notch]

I cant tell if this is just lag or a 1 frame but I feel like this deserves to be a contender(sorry for the audio cutout)

I also have this one but it might just be a Vector doing Vector things

[livid kelp]

yea second one just looks like vector shenanigans

plus some piece of your armor broke at the start of the clip so that was a factor

[modest sonnet]

we are all wrong... they secretly added shotguns

[carmine imp]

Could this be related to getting hit/hitting with shots that clearly missed because the target is around a corner? Because I have noticed that is a pretty regular occurrence.

[sacred notch]

Dang, I thought the armor breaking was someone else’s. Well add that to the list of bugs cause that looks like I’m well out the way

[livid kelp]

well i do know that your armor (esp helmet) has a hurtbox separate from the body, so there are instances where only your helmet is exposed enough to be knocked off

[livid kelp]

i feel like that is inherent to the netcode of the servers, idunno if it's rollback or not

but i do experience the same issues, you kinda have to react and take cover 0.5 seconds in the future to not get domed

[drowsy verge]

there are certainly netcode issues, but I feel like something that could help with this is bigger and brighter damage indicators

the video at the beginning of the thread actually isn't a one frame death, if you play it slowly you can see him get hit twice before going black on the third hit

#1174710258778775592 message

the tiny size of the damage indicator and the way it sorta fades in makes it very hard to notice and react to it.

also
in the video, i counted 11 frames from the first damage indicator to death, which is 0.183 seconds. the max possible ttk for an ultimax is 0.200 seconds, more realistically it is around 0.400 seconds. so we can assume that between 0.02-0.22 seconds are lost due to some other source of error.

[slow grove]

Yesterday i killed 3 guys in a row like this. Idk if it might be like internet thing becouse i know my net isnt good or is it something game server sided

[pliant tangle]

true, they secretly started beta testing shotguns, you get a 0.1% chance to have your gun be a shotgun

[vocal tiger]

Regarding this earlier conversation about teamwork and communication, the game is too fast-paced to have any teamwork or communication beyond just saying "spawn on me" or "go to B". When everyone is an olympic sprinter, and the frontline is changing every second, there's no time to come up with a plan or communicate it. You need a slower-paced game for that.

[fossil quail]

Very true

I hosted a 12v12 tournament on some small maps and the coms were so hectic

[frosty ore]

what are these servers man

[sacred notch]

Dude has a tater tot on a toothpick for a router

[frosty ore]

300mbps is too little for bbr I guess xd

I have to get those RGB routers with 10 antennas

[fallow hollow]

I have 4 antennas, not enough for a Battlebit. Uh, oops. I have a direct 300mbps connection.

Hitting bullets in your past makes you think about the eternal. Is this the life you wanted, turn around, look at your path and accept it for what it is

[frosty ore]

the router is right next to me as well

wired connection

[frosty ore]

this happened on a 64v64 community server, it has never occurred in official servers

so I will try to avoid those servers

but there is only 1 64v64 official server at all times 🗿

[fallow hollow]

Yes, there are fewer and fewer servers every day. I wonder why the
*sarcasm

[frosty ore]

xd

[gentle depot]

Ok you straight up got sniped from E through the window when on low health

[fallow hollow]

By the way, if you think about it, dying behind walls is a variation of the problem of dying in 1 frame or just dying too fast.

Essentially, it's a timing error in your character's damage logging. Your character at the enemy on the monitor is in a different timeline, in the past for you, he shoots you and you die already in your timeline.

Same thing with getting hit by a bunch of bullets at 1 point in time, they just came into your multiverse through Dr. Strange's portal when you didn't even know about them. And it comes as a surprise to you. I'd be surprised if Dr. Strange showed up in my apartment, too. lmao.

[fallow hollow]

First of all, I took the damage when I was already behind cover.

Secondly, there's no window, I got hit in the head when I started freefalling down the tower.

[gentle depot]

And that getting shot when you prone? The player animation and the in-person view doesn't match. In-person you prone almost instantly but to others you do a prone anim that makes your hitbox stay up that bit longer. Happens to me all the time and isn't anything to do with lag

[fallow hollow]

Oh, there's a window, but the bullet didn't go through the window.)

[gentle depot]

You got shot from behind, you can hear it in the audio

Also, your head hitbox is huge in this game in comparison to others, you can be prone behind a wall and still have the top of your head clipped.

But yea, 99% that hit during prone was due to the animation

[fallow hollow]

Well, that's the back and the open area of the tower. I was killed from the opposite team's respawn, there is both a window and an open top of the tower. I doubt that there is such a skillful player that had time to react to the falling model in the window. I've never been able to do that

[gentle depot]

Some of your other videos are legit lag, but I don't see any problem with that one, you can even hear that it's a sniper shot

[fallow hollow]

odds are it was some cyber athlete with incredible reactions to hit a fast model falling in freefall through a window. Especially since that cyber athlete plays sniper, lol.

[gentle depot]

They were probably watching you dance around the top of the tower and were just waiting for you to go down

A shitty and unlucky death but not illegitimate

[fallow hollow]

I know it was a sniper, there was a delay in the video of the hit on me. The argument that he hit me in the head through the window I do not accept as impossible, or rather possible with extremely low probability. It had to be a shroud, no less. Or someone who is a popular skill player right now.

I believe it was my dancing that they were shooting at. Not the fall of the king of the mountain

Although, in fact, the king did fall.

[vivid raven]

This was a Steam problem

I was on a community server when this happened too and the admins sent everyone a notification indicating that they had looked into it and it was neither server nor user side issues but some temporary Steam problem

[frosty ore]

right

[vivid raven]

They also posted a notification to let everyone know about the upcoming updates, pretty cool that community servers provide better communication than official ones XD

[fallow hollow]

For the sake of experimentation, I bought myself 1000mbps internet for a month. The result.

[vague jay]

Oof

[fallow hollow]

As Oki wrote above, it's just players have become unrealistically skillful or it's problems with your internet. Well with the internet problems I removed (they were not). It remains to learn how to also put bullets in the mouth of opponents 4 in 1

[fading radish]

happened to me yesterday with a SCAR I thought it was a cheater

I'm 10ms 0 packet loss, game on ultra capped at 144

the netcode is trash rn

[fallow hollow]

I just do it all the time. Read above, it happens to everyone and the fact that it happens even with your 10 ping is a game bug, not a "fluke".

[fading radish]

it's definitly a game problem / server

[spark trellis]

Can we expect future map design to lean into this? "If I circle our forces at these two points here, and we both push towards this point over here ..."

[fading radish]

New feature is cool, but fix the game first (and the subject of this topic)

People will stay in-game because of consistency

not because you can draw your whole mom on the map

[cobalt loom]

Брат такая же проблема, ты пользуешься домру?

[fallow hollow]

нет, у меня локальный провайдер, я не знаю через кого они тянут сети. тут если что на англ общаются, используй deepl

[cobalt loom]

Ну никто не писал про ограничения на язык, ну в суппорте ребята отвечали так что норм?

[fallow hollow]

Well, it's so that other guys can answer you or the developer doesn't get lost in a bunch of languages.

[cobalt loom]

I'm suffering a lot, too. I consider myself better than average and half of my deaths are +- 1frames, suffered the most at launch and now. Yeah oki can't solve this, 100%, just get over it, but my ass is on fire. When I watch top scores play and I do the same thing but get a different result I just sit in frustration. + I have such a thing as hitmarkers with c4 on the head of the person )))))

[fading radish]

???

"can't solve"

[frosty ore]

do the servers even restart once a while ?

[fading radish]

everything can be solve with money

[cobalt loom]

))) im already solve my part, by having "good" internet, servers shows 60-70 in browser, and in real game it sometimes get higher by 10-20))

[fallow hollow]

I think it's still the same problem on the server side. The game thought I ran forward the moment I pressed "S"

[fallow hollow]

That's normal. It shows you the ping to the region. But the server itself may be a little farther away

[cobalt loom]

I have some clips, i deleted planty, but i need to cut them for post

[fallow hollow]

There are assumptions and I could be wrong. But the whole problem is these packet priorities. Why not just do a normal tickrate without any sending priorities?

[cobalt loom]

There must be tickrate already, beacose in browser you can see 60hz,120hz servers. Priorities needed for balancing packetlosing and peekers advantagese or similar stuff

[fallow hollow]

Well, it seems to me that the system is like CS2 now. And there it only works for guys with a ping of 5. The rest of us are all just terrible (me included)

[cobalt loom]

Well mb, but yes guys who lives on servers melting people, including me, even if i shooting first)

[frosty ore]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/969551680607776808/1180200951550853170/how.mp4?ex=657c8ec9&is=656a19c9&hm=e00c3ac0c03d7eee8be7a856de0b9c691df8aa0cbb850b4c6b4531b9944d8d04&

[fallow hollow]

hahaha. rofl)

You have a very pretty picture, like a movie.

[thorny turret]

Honestly no idea Soviet, general this stuff is happening on your end with Boris, if you can replicate it consistently I am down for debugging but other than that, I can't do much without removing some features from anti cheat and stuff.

[frosty ore]

not my clip its from game bugs

[fallow hollow]

It's because of the anti-cheat. that's why these tricks were not on the tests...

[cobalt loom]

I said it guys, it is on the physics limits, to fix this issues, it is on provider side and routing. I woud like to get rid of the problem, but i think it is impossible at the moment

[frosty ore]

I never had this, maybe 1, 2 extra bullet but never whole 50+ hits

[thorny turret]

There are certain things to prevent some cheats such as lag switches or network tampering cheats and shooting through walls, however, it's really hard to debug and differs from network condition to network condition, unless there is a way to consistently reproduce it, it's really hard to pin point it

At some point, there were lag switch cheats where you stop the incoming internet and just let outgoing internet and kill players and let game go on etc etc

[cobalt loom]

Does it make sense to collect clips of such cases and then post them in one pile?

[fallow hollow]

that's what this thread is for)

[steep flicker]

its not the usual ISP issue?

[cobalt loom]

i just save clips, to watch, was it me or server, and then delet)

[cobalt loom]

Well i have good pings,60-70, i really bad days 70-90, so idk, mb isp routing is bad

[steep flicker]

you should pay for a better service

[cobalt loom]

i mean, i have 300mb, it is pretty good i would say. Speed affects ping, but not that much ander certain speed, as i know

[frosty ore]

you need to have 319 terabits internet to play bbr isp issue

[thorny turret]

@frosty ore Stop trolling people lol

[frosty ore]

xd

[thorny turret]

BBR requires 100kb/s

for 254 servers

[frosty ore]

cool cool

[real venture]

hitreg is also buggy when you try to shoot with a m7 vehicle but they are close

[frosty ore]

ye its sussy

[real venture]

but i think that guy was cheating no?

[thorny turret]

like, below the vehicle?

[real venture]

#game-bugs message

3rd clip on lonovo

[raven magnet]

Is there like no log? Like there's no way to send files log or something from the client to see what's wrong with this issue?

[steep flicker]

not below the vehicle, the 7m has very buggy hitreg sometimes, no matter if the target is below or over you

[frosty ore]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/969551680607776808/1167786461681168414/Battlebit_Remastered_2023.10.27_-_17.57.04.04.DVR_-_Trim.mp4?ex=65744ee4&is=6561d9e4&hm=e6cff560f531c808c5273668235c4efe3f1507b1ba34e4ff2a7d37af3bb2493b&

[frosty ore]

for easier viewing

[real venture]

ah i gotta remember that, thanks

[modest sonnet]

Idk if its can also affect spawn check (able to spawn on a ally under ennemy aiming/fire)

[cursive marsh]

happens to me all the time, it gets nullified under i think 4m but the projectile still loads so its just infinite hitmarkers unless they move further away

[fallow hollow]

8-10 shots 4-5 hitmarkers. on a guy in the first clinch. Is that adequate?

Why is it that when shooting at the same point. In the belly. 3 hits on the meat, and the fourth in the armor, where is the logic?

[fading radish]

Not the same problem imo

[real venture]

The music is too loud, game can't focus on doing damage calculations

[modern hemlock]

Not the 1 frame Why you post this clip here 💀

[fallow hollow]

I know, but it's still a netcode issue. (Not the 2nd clip). As well as deaths in 1 frame.

In fact, I don't even know where to put it. It's like no one notices.

[drowsy verge]

yeah this looks rough, but again im wondering if bigger more noticeable damage indicators would help

you only get the blood effect until after the second shot, and on the 3rd shot you die

[shut forge]

I now understand what this thread is about because I've been running into these situations off and on. I think this is more of a netcode thing tbh. Seems like more and more I get turbo fried by the same gun im using when I've already put 2 bullets into that persons skull before they started shooting on my end.

Or seemingly players with sub 150ms reaction times on a game popping my head before I even realize they're peeking.

Hope the new fixes to the player action tracking alleviate this.

[shut forge]

Not exactly, routing does too and its something you really cant fix unless you bitch at your ISP to improve whatever they're running their service through

[modest sonnet]

You can also have armor hit maker against "empty" helmet

[royal sinew]

250/250 is basically standard in the northern EU lol.

[fallow hollow]

#1174710258778775592 message I plugged in 1,000. It didn't work.

[royal sinew]

? You can't run 1000/1000 or what are you saying

[fallow hollow]

I've got a 1000mbps connection.

[royal sinew]

Did you not post a speedtest of 291

[fallow hollow]

#1174710258778775592 message 1,000 already.

[royal sinew]

Did you upgrade it to get rid of lag in BBR?!

[fallow hollow]

it was an experiment. It didn't work

[brittle oyster]

i have 20ms ping to servers on my region
i still get one frame deaths

it's really strange

[coral narwhal]

this happens to me so many times

i can mag dump a recon with fal but his rsh still kills me and he lives

exactly just like these clips

[brittle oyster]

my sentiment is:
i ignore it when it happens once
but some matches (hello, Tensa) this happens pretty often

sometimes right after spawning

i press space and i'm dead

sometimes it happens one after another and i get frustrated

i change to sniper for a while and might come back to the front-line later

[coral narwhal]

i get so frustrated too i would be lying if i said i didnt say some swear words

[cursive marsh]

I’ve never said the phrase “wtf, how?!” So many times

[cobalt loom]

I wrote about routing above. And as i know isp wouldn't change route because of you. Also because ping is "normal". Yeadh indeed, in the browser ping is 60) in game 60-90(in good/bad days). So i think provider wouldn't change route from ru to eu server only for me ))

[fallow hollow]

Just an evening selection. Even if there is death for more than 1 frame, dying for 2 bullets is not ok. At the very least it's not okay to die when only the 1st hitmarker is lit on your screen and you die on the 2nd. My ass is on fire.

[fading radish]

looks painfull

[fallow hollow]

I talk to some pretty skillful players, and I've heard one thing from all of them. And I agree with it myself. "it feels like some opponents see you half a second before you see them."

[fading radish]

I think the servers just don't give the real info of what's going on OR it doesn't get the info you're sending, at some point it goes to reality where the enemy land everything in your face but client side you're still not dead

at least it looks like it

[modest sonnet]

if the server have delay (ping/packet loss) in a peek situation, the one who peek have the advantage
but in bbr, if you peek, the ennemy see you first... like the server anticipate your future location based on your vector to compensate the lag
but the result is: if no lag, the ennemy can see the future you

idk if its come from the anticheat

[vague jay]

Im honestly not sure in what the problem lies in exactly
I just had a session where i played recon and holy crap, the amount of times i leaned or went prone to dodge a bullet only for the shot to be registered despite me already being on the ground from my perspective

It happens outside of that of course, being decimated way too fast than i should have

It just feels like the camera is dragging the player model behind

At this point i cant tell if its due to the netcode or packet dumping or the animations just not playing fast enough

Whatever it is, it aint right

[main crypt]

ive been having so many of these, especially similar to 0:47

just blamed myself for not reacting within 0.3 picoseconds

[vocal tiger]

This bullet supposedly hit you, which is absurd and wrong

[vivid raven]

@fallow hollow re: even heavier builds getting 1-framed that's because limb damage is 100% so half of the time your armor is completely bypassed even with exo

[fallow hollow]

I agree with that. Changing the armor will do nothing to fix this...I don't even know how to censor it

[vivid raven]

Well, changing the way armor works would. I think body armor should protect everything from the neck down equally and same for helmets. E.g. like in CS:GO where shooting someone's face will nonetheless trigger the helmet protection.

[fallow hollow]

And also so that armor doesn't just trigger at random and absorb the LAST shot in the queue #1174710258778775592 message

[vague jay]

How should armor be changed tho?
For the casual mode it has to be changed cause its rng if you die or not.
It either has to increase max health or give damage reduction, not this "if you happen to shoot in the right place armor will absorb the shot"

The current armor system could work in the mislim mode with some tweaks, but in this casual one its pure shit

[vivid raven]

Yes, I agree 100%. The current hitbox-perfect system is good for milsim but terrible for the casual feel.

Max health has implementation issues in the sense that it would, for instance, decrease the effectiveness of explosives across the board and make bandages less efficient. All of these things can of course be adjusted, but it's preferable to go for something that requires less tweaks.

% damage reduction can be made exactly equivalent to max health with the appropriate numbers but without the above issues, which is why I support that.

[vague jay]

I too support % dmg, it is probably the best solution.
I just wonder about the specifics, such as durability and armor repair.
If % dmg is the way, armor repair would become desirable, which also ties in how many shots will each armor type take.

[vague jay]

Yeah yeah

[raven magnet]

%DR on whole body, is probably best if we have to get a new system. For keeping current and making it better: Less downside when armor is broken OR/AND armor repair/plate/box/dispenser/etc.

[vivid raven]

%DR should just be permanent in my view. Numbers may of course need to be tweaked if that is too strong, and in particular I think that modifying bandage time would also be appropriate. But repairing is just adding another annoying interaction to be performed after every fight.

(this would also make Medic more relevant as their heals would work at the same rate, i.e. be faster in relative terms for more heavily armored players vs the time it would take for them to self-bandage)

[raven magnet]

Yes, %DR would be permanent armor, not breakable.

[brittle oyster]

by looking at how many suggestions there are

i think devs will not read this in months

it's simply too much to read

and many duplicated issues

[vivid raven]

that's what ChatGPT is for 😎

[shut forge]

It just means the issue is centered around a similar problem

Oki will just have to find out what the hell that is

which honestly just sounds like people getting predicted on server end mad early then getting hit with a super bullet or two

[vocal tiger]

There are users whose task it is to read the feedback and the give oki the summaries

[cursive marsh]

i've never felt sorry for another human being so intensely and quickly

[brittle oyster]

this makes more sense.
i would suggest having this on github or other place where issues are properly controlled
but i also understand that would reduce the total number of suggestions anyway

[vivid raven]

That would be a bit too much. But I do think that it would be benefitial to have a more structured suggestion post format (e.g. always explicitly and separate "intent" and "implementation") and enforced slowmode so discussions can be a bit more thoughtful.

[vocal tiger]

Oki is at least considering doing something about air-strafing/movement so our feedback is slowly reaching his ears one way or another

[gentle depot]

Oki has said he's put in changes to improve netcode, so next patch might see some improvements

[solemn python]

This has happened many times now

Not that I don’t think it may improve, but my expectations aren’t high

[modest sonnet]

like being able to spawn on ally under fire

[fallow hollow]

I could just do this forever.

[solemn python]

You died in literally 340ms in the first one

That is totally normal

Especially as you took a hit before they even started shooting

[fallow hollow]

the first is the excellent hit registration and c4

[solemn python]

Seems like it was because the stairs blocked line of sight

The C4 stuck to the underside of the stairs on the slope so it didn’t have line of sight to the enemy

So when it exploded it didn’t damage them.

To “fix” that would be to make C4 deal damage through destructible surfaces but I disagree with that as it’s powerful enough as-is

[solemn python]

170ms

So fast but feasible

Based on watching the clips of this that have been posted I think people often don’t realise they’ve been shot until they get to low health, since a hit marker that breaks your armour for example is hard to see or feel

[fallow hollow]

And here's where I have my doubts.

1. this is another proof of the theory that the enemy sees you earlier.
2. Fucking WH cheater

p.s there is no information on me

[fallow hollow]

No. The problem is that you get killed for 2 markers. The markers appear AFTER you die.

I died there in one hitmarker.

[solemn python]

On the video I last responded to there were 3

But 2 were in the same place so it would be hard to see

Kinda have to look frame by frame to see them appear

[solemn python]

That’s just peeker’s advantage

That’s in more or less every game

Severely doubt it affected the outcome here though

[modest sonnet]

maybe ppl just pick up the Quad damage item from quake

[solemn python]

110ms that time

so shorter than should be possible unless pure headshots, I think?

Anyway, minor cases like that are never going to go away. The only thing that can be fixed is those cases where packet loss / latency were not the cause as those will always be an issue

[fallow hollow]

these little incidents I've been having every single game. You want to outflank me and score, no way, bro. Take two hits and go to the tavern.

[solemn python]

Most of these are completely normal deaths though

TTKs are simply very short in this game. If someone hits all their shots it'll always feel like a one frame death

And of course it's possible for latency/packet loss to exaggerate this. There are pretty hard limits on how far you can compensate for that though

[fallow hollow]

If it's so normal, then why is it taking me 2-3 times longer to kill opponents than it is to die myself

#1174710258778775592 message this is where I did the frame-by-frame

[brittle oyster]

that's client being optimistic
when you finally receive information from server you already got killed

the guy who killed you saw himself shooting at you multiple times and then you died

[solemn python]

it isn't. They get rapidly killed by you as well
though also this could be interpreted as a self reported skill issue because you would definitely kill that fast if you hit all your shots
but from your POV velocity does add a delay. The victim doesn't see this

[fallow hollow]

That's right, the guy who shoots at me sees everything fine.

[solemn python]

that was 220ms in that video

well, the first one was, didn't notice the second

mm, was the same thing

that is a reasonable time

[fallow hollow]

I kill as I should, everyone kills as they should, but they die too fast. Sometimes so fast that it's impossible to react. Yes, the kill time is fast, but not so fast that you die in 1-2 hitmarkers when it should be around 4-5. And that's a problem.

[solemn python]

considering the servers run at 60hz, packet loss on both ends and the partially random nature of latency, is it surprising? Hit markers will also overlap if you stay at relatively the same angle to each other which makes them harder to see

[astral cedar]

This is not only about ping, i have all the same issues playing with 15 - 20 ms;

I watched most of the videos above and 1/3 of my deaths are one shot (one frame kill).
This is the worst problem in the game in my opinion.

[solemn python]

in not a single one of those videos did the death happen in one frame

most of those were regular ttks

ttks are just faster than most people can react to

[modest sonnet]

exept in clips, ttk is faster than real ttk
even the aug / pistol can kill in 0.1 sec

[drowsy verge]

yes, totally agree
a lot of these "1 frame deaths" are actually like 100-200ms, but the damage indicator is barely noticeable until you're dead.

the blood effect on the edges of the screen should trigger instantly on damage, or they should make the damage indicator bigger

[solemn python]

would help.

[astral cedar]

There are many factors together, but the ttk of this game is the fastest I've ever played.
Quick deaths of this type should only happen in case of 2 or 3 headshots in a row and not in a spray in the leg...

[solemn python]

The argument that ttk should be slowed down is quite a different debate I think

[vivid raven]

It's not

According to Oki he has done all he can to make the netcode work smoothly

If people are still arsed about getting 1framed then raising TTK is the only option left

And I'm not asking for apex legends TTK mind you

Just a small % across the board to bring things at least slightly above human reaction time

[modest sonnet]

again, those issue didnt existed during PT (server ping/desync doesnt count)

[modern hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-funny-meme-gif-25840241

[fallow hollow]

It's very subjective. But! I played on a US server and there I didn't catch a single death in 1 frame out of 10 deaths (or very similar to such deaths), while in Europe such deaths in almost every death. Yeah, you need to play longer to confirm this 100%. But I literally switched from Europe to America and I feel more comfortable playing -_-.

Very adequate registration of hits on you.

[karmic halo]

And? Let then draw

[vivid raven]

Why does Oki hate fun smh

[karmic halo]

He hates creative arts fr fr

[brittle oyster]

dota2.mp4

[hollow cosmos]

I'll for sure draw dicks on it

[ocean flower]

Proning hurtbox is already being adjusted in #dev-wip 1 frame deaths have yet to be mentioned iirc

[vague jay]

Ye i saw it

[fallow hollow]

Played 3 games in the new patch and there was only one controversial moment. ( and that was as val at point-blank range, so most likely also "ok" moment). We will play further, I hope it will not be as usual a couple days after the patch again appear deaths in 1 frame. So far I have everything normal.

[vague jay]

Nice

[cursive marsh]

oki doesn't believe 1 frame deaths are a thing, so don't hold your breath

or more accurately, that they are anything but networking and players playing skillfully

[modest sonnet]

Skill full player with 0.3 k/d

[solemn python]

because they aren't

it literally just doesn't make sense that it could be something else

[vivid raven]

Still a shitty experience

[solemn python]

it's the battlebit experience

[gentle depot]

The last patch put in some network fixes and honestly, I had the two best games of BBR I've ever had. Even on US server it felt snappy and responsive, at no point did I feel like anyone had a ping advantage over me or my bullets hit nothing

Dunno what changes you made Oki, but they're incredibly based

[cursive marsh]

Guess you’re just playing more skillfully

[fallow hollow]

Not one. The other. Now you're always catching bullets behind the wall.....

[gentle depot]

I don't see the problem? He got you with a few shots through the railing, then shot you as you appeared

[modest sonnet]

the 2nd hit (sound) was behind the wall but maybe its just desync

[gentle depot]

It looks like the bullet probably clipped the very top-right of his head

[raven magnet]

Wouldn't it be your shoulder?

Player character are big, so sometimes you think you're hidden when you're actually not.

idk 💀 Could be desync

[grave rose]

I'm not 100% sure but I think part of the problem is that some guns shoot faster than 60hz tick rate can keep up with so you get hit by 2 or more bullets in one hitmarker, loads of games have that problem

And also it seems like in the clips that the black death screen appears before you even get notified of the last hit marker, so a 3 shot kill only feels like 2

[fallow hollow]

Well, one day of normal play and that's it. All night long, this shit happens.

[hollow cosmos]

Thats why they are increasing ttk?

[vivid raven]

Literally not a one frame lol

[fallow hollow]

It's the same hitmarker. ! Hit, you're dead !

[vivid raven]

It's not. You can literally see how it gets less transparent as the next hitmarker overlaps with it

[fallow hollow]

It's the same hitmarker because it has a time when it becomes more saturated. It can't appear saturated on your screen all at once. It's called animation.

[vivid raven]

You can literally see the frame jumping from hit marker only to hit marker + blood effect on your HUD after the next hit

[fallow hollow]

The first two. The start of the hitmarker animation and on the second one we see the bullet that gave that hitmarker. The next frame - death and a NEW hitmarker, but now on the death screen

We've discussed several times the fact that even if it's not 1 frame, but 2. That's a "big" difference.

[vivid raven]

It's about 9 actually

And yeah, it's not much time, I agree that the TTK is low

That's a separate problem and has nothing to do with "fixing 1frames"

[fallow hollow]

It's too fast anyway. I threw examples of adequate registration of hitmarkers above. And it's just not comparable, what I've thrown now - it's crap.

#1174710258778775592 messageIn the second clip, the beats are clearly audible and visible, every single one of them. There is no need to parse the clip frame by frame and argue, everything is clear and understandable. As it should be. The beats do not merge into a mess and do not come in 1-2 moments

I played last night after the patch and everything was awesome. Not a single controversial situation. Went in tonight and almost smashed my monitor from that shit.

It's especially fucked up in contrast to yesterday.

I am a complete 0 in these things, but as I think, read as if after the update some time after the buffer servers are clogged and then does not have time to clear, because there is a constant flow of information.

I have this on a flash drive in the camera. When I shoot a series of shots, then 10 frames fly in quickly, and then begins click-click-click-click. The memory buffer is clogged. It's like something similar here.

Also. I've played on US servers (clips of good hitmarkers from there). And holy crap. Ping 160, and it's more comfortable and enjoyable to play. There are almost none of these controversial points, why is that? As I wrote in those clips I need to do more testing, maybe I just got lucky. But if so, there's definitely something wrong with the European servers.

[solemn python]

There are no guns that fire that fast

But it is a factor due to variation in when the shots arrive at the server

The fastest firing gun in the game shoots one bullet every 3 ticks on 60hz

[viral hare]

[solemn python]

First one is 210ms which is completely reasonable

Second one was 90ms, but considering you were only on 58hp that’s not unreasonable

[fallow hollow]

The first one is still way too fast, I'm just trying to compare how it would look from my eyes to playing with the MP7. I've been killing with the MP7 longer than this guy has been dead.

I agree with the second one. You didn't have full health, plus a hit to the head. The second one looks adequate

In the first case, you see all the hitmarkers, hear every hit, but still it seems that the guy started shooting a bit before you saw him, although the attacker should have an advantage when coming from the corner, although (2) he was already watching that corner and waiting for you. Or he's a cyber athlete with the reactions of a Formula 1 driver.

[solemn python]

I can’t see any muzzle flash on his gun so it’s hard to tell when he started firing

[fallow hollow]

I'm leaning towards these two situations being either completely normal or very close to normal

[solemn python]

About 340ms passed between the first frame of eye contact and taking damage

Which is reasonable for most people

Either already ADS or hip firing probably

[grave rose]

damn yeah i completely misremembered the numbers

[viral hare]

Just now, I put the first video into Premiere Pro and calculated it from the time I was injured until the end of my death. After 13 frames, the ttk was calculated to be 92ms. I can only say that I am too unlucky

[drowsy verge]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1184427511275343902

i think this would help

[fallow hollow]

It's been a long time. Happy New Year, everyone, I brought you a gift, another one.

I'm playing this weekend, there are a lot less 1 shot deaths than before. Thanks Okie, if that's to his credit (I think it is). But the problem remains, at least with the indication of hits on you

[modern hemlock]

nice clip

happy new year

[solemn python]

I very much doubt the frequency of them has changed

Since there haven’t been any updates mentioning this that’s just gonna be luck/biases in perception

[fallow hollow]

I feel like there are fewer of them. I still occasionally die for 2 bullets from any weapon, but not with one anymore. That's progress

[solemn python]

Every clip I’ve seen in this channel shows multiple bullets before death

1 is theoretically possible but it must be very rare or it would be used as an example more often