Weapon types need to be balanced around accuracy, not only maximum damage range

[silver wolf]

Most SMGs damage drops to minimum after 50-70m. But their accuracy allow to hit targets past 200m reliably

Short range AR maximum damage ranger is about 100m while accuracy stats allow to shoot up to 300-400m. There’s no point to use medium range optics on them because of petty damage past 200m
Long range AR have similar issues.

I’d like to see opposite thing tbh:

• SMG rounds should be dangerous at 100m. But SMG accuracy wouldn’t let you hit things reliably past 100 m

• AR round should be dangerous at 500m. But AR accuracy wouldn’t let you hit past 250m for short range AR, and past 400 for long range ones

It sucks then weapon is able to hit target but deals little to no damage.

[silver wolf]

There's two SMGs: MP7 (best in class accuracy) and P2000 (worst accuracy)
Target is at 250m. All hits (excluding user errors)
I did the same trick with 500m but there was too many elevation related misses, so I didn't include it

https://youtu.be/hHH68qUa2cA

https://youtu.be/klUMh1I1NgQ

[gusty stump]

Hard-agree, getting Lasered by an SMG at rifle range is dull. Even if it's further out they can trigger a bleed which is infuriating.

[nova canopy]

the accuracy stat is pretty much untouched and equal even between the likes of the scorpion and m200 which should change

essentially the difference in values has such minimal performance changes that it might as well not exist

[humble fog]

I'm gonna necro this post because I think it brings up good points

[pulsar plover]

Yeah, i think its less the weapon types necessarily and more the irrelevancy of the accuracy stat. It can make a difference, but rarely a significant enough one to throw off aim or make weapons unviable from inappropriate ranges

But ig you could argue its more where the accuracy stat of esch weapon class lingers around

[humble fog]

Fair but I just feel like accuracy is one of the more untouched stats

when it can often be a more gentle way of limiting range

without making a horse kick at my gun horizontally every shot

[pulsar plover]

Yes, but thats what I mean - if you look at accuract of weapons, it doesnt change much from attachments, and, more importantly imo, firing weapond with high vs low accuract does not feel signficiantly different, which I think is an issue

Like I feel most SMGS (iirc - Its beena while since I looked at the stats) linger around 60 accuracy, ARs around 80, DMRs around 90, snipers nearly 100

And yet the accuracy of each is fairly high. Like low accuracy turns into a cone instead of a 'laser', but with those weapons and their high ROF it doesnt matter nearly enough to make range a significant issue

moreso than falloff rather

[glass yoke]

accuracy is mostly hipfire

[humble fog]

Eh, still I don't know what the fuck an SMG is doing with 70 accuracy stat

[glass yoke]

also you don't seem to realize that
firstly, your ranges are outlandish af, dmrs get useless 50m and secondly no one ever tap fires unless it's a battlerifle

[pulsar plover]

What ranges?

[humble fog]

I think he means OP

#1171719103455711232 message

[pulsar plover]

Thats fair, but if that were the case hipfiring with smgs would be agonizinf wouldnt it? Has anyone done testing with accuracy/hipfire?

[pulsar plover]

ah fair

Idk, dmrs thrive for me around 200-400m. Mostly closer to 200, honestly

ARs around 1-200, smgs anything less than that, snipers anything more than 300-400m

somewhere sround there, I forgor the dmg falloff curves

[glass yoke]

yes, it is significant past 30m...

[silver wolf]

No it's not.

[pulsar plover]

I mean... thats everything, isn't it?

I'm not sure if it affects hipfire moreso than ads tbh. I was under the impression that hipfire is around as accurate, it just doesn't stay center-screen

I'd like to see it tested for sure

[glass yoke]

it is tho, go into the shooting range and hipfire a wall past 20m
then do the same when ads

[pulsar plover]

I'll try to record some clips to post here tonight... if I rember

I probably won't :)

[silver wolf]

Accuracy is ADS spread added to bullet randomly. Try reliably make headshots at 500 m with AR. You probably miss a bunch even if aim same spot

[glass yoke]

here's a little secret for you, ars aren't supposed to be used at that range
and i also tested this with multiple gun categorys, ik some things about the game

also the last things the game needs when shooting is rng, i'd rather know that my gun sucks ass past x meters than having to dump a whole mag because mathematics said so

[nova canopy]

horizontal recoil exists and is random

that stat makes or breaks some guns yet it's fair and reasonable

[glass yoke]

yeah that aswell, lemme put rng on your rng 👍

[pulsar plover]

Yeah me personally I prefer accuracy be more drastic at least on SMGs since their recoil is so low

I know some games scale accuracy on fire rate, so the more bullets you fire in quick succession the less accurate you are, such that burst firing is not only more accurate in terms of recoil but also narrows the cone of fire

[glass yoke]

vector and mp7 with that low recoil fr fr /s

(built for max crackhead gameplay so drum mag and all)

[silver wolf]

you saying Accuracy is hip fire stat. It's not. Accuracy is about ADS bullet spread
In this post I complaining about the fact what most weapons have too much accuracy. They don't need that much.

[glass yoke]

but it is 😂
it has nearly no effect while ads in the effective range of a gun but is noticable while hipfiring, pretty sure someone else said the same thing aswell
but again rng is just cringe

[humble fog]

Horizontal recoil is rng

[silver wolf]

• but again rng is just cringe
  That's how it works IRL tho

[humble fog]

irl is usually not an argument that holds up though. Games need to be fun

Point of accuracy is having a soft cap on your effective range

it's not about making long range kills rng

[glass yoke]

this dude wants rng on his rng xD

[silver wolf]

Is it fun to shoot stupidly low damage bullets at range?

[humble fog]

Being properly equipment for a situation is fun yes

You chose the wrong weapon for the task

bro lemme counter snipe those recons with my M9 💀

[glass yoke]

you shouldn't shoot past 50m with an smg, you shouldn't shoot with an ar past 150m, you shouldn't shoot past 500m with a dmr
tldr if you really need 4675436m of range use a sniper

[silver wolf]

Lol you can and probably will hit target most of the time. That damage drop is cringe tho

[humble fog]

Why?

You think SMGs that can drop targets sitting at 100m would make for a good and interesting sandbox?

[silver wolf]

Lazy game design is cringe.

[glass yoke]

learn the game, also certain guns just aren't made for certain ranges for balancing
imagine pre nerf vector but somehow even dumber

[humble fog]

Ok but how is it lazy?

[glass yoke]

rng bullets is lazy lmfao

[humble fog]

Bro, both of you , having any stats that gates a weapon's effectiveness at range can be called lazy if you want

[glass yoke]

if you really want curved barreled guns go play bf or cod

[humble fog]

But you need to limit the range somehow

[silver wolf]

#devs-asking message

[pulsar plover]

falloff exists for a reason. It incentivizes being cautious and playing your role or suffering consequences. If anyone could hit anyone we would just be playing SMGs and sniping people with them?

How is it lazy?

is it the method they're preventing sniping with guns?

is it the idea of being limited by range on guns at all? elaborate please.

[humble fog]

Ok I just read that whole message and the devs aren't wrong except for
• We could make weapons less accurate but that's bullshit, hitting someone would be purely based on randomization, not skill at that point.

[silver wolf]

That was lazy bandaid. We did a lot of stupid design decisions. Now we add another stupid restriction on top. Hope it helps.
In the mean time ALL AR users lost ability to fight snipers at range 200+ (wich is stupid)
That's why we see another stupid shit in direction to nerf snipers (but it wont help, snipers still can't be fought directly)

[humble fog]

At a certain point, cone of fire does dictate the effectiveness of a weapon at a certain range

and past that said point, you accept that your fate lies in chance

I don't see the issue

Range needs to be limited somehow

if it's not accuracy it's damage dropoff, or velocity

[pulsar plover]

I do think falloff for most weapons needs to be a smoother curve

[humble fog]

you can't have laserbeams everywhere in something that's supposed to be modern shooter lol

might as well have hitscan

[pulsar plover]

exception being SMGs simply because they are insane as is

[humble fog]

That, sure yea

But so far people dont want less accuracy, and they don't want less dropoff

you need something to gate the weapon's range

[pulsar plover]

Like I would like seeinf smgs have their current curve more or less and assault rifles have a curve somewhere between what we have now and DMR curve

so it drops smoothly over distance to be fairly ineffective... but usable if you REALLY wanna bully that annoying sniper

that kinda thing

[glass yoke]

battle rifles...

[pulsar plover]

True

But even then most have AR curve

exception being G3

which has a DMR curve

[silver wolf]

Only one battle rifle is capable to kill snipers

G3

[pulsar plover]

The concept is there but not fully fleshed out

[glass yoke]

like that's literally what they are, ars with better fall off, more or less

[glass yoke]

if you knew xD
inb4 the scar was the best dmr

[pulsar plover]

The g3 has a dmr falloff curve, very weak falloff, and most drop off like ARs, very sharply past effective range

I do think falloff is necessary, I just find the curves goofy on ARs especially

[silver wolf]

That’s what I call stupid design btw

[pulsar plover]

I think its just post weapon regrouping, but if it stays that way, I can see G3 being seen as inherently better than the others by many players

[silver wolf]

Yes, it necessary. But not that shit we having rn

God, I purposely built worst accuracy AR. 62 or something. All headshots at 500m

[pulsar plover]

I would like to see smoother curves in general there so you don't go from shredding people at one distance, but they take a few meters distance back and you just chip them. Thats any game really

[humble fog]

Almost like, a mix of using accuracy, dropoff, velocity and recoil can give you more ways to limit a weapon's range without just taking one and making it extreme

[pulsar plover]

Sharp curves feel really goofy sometimes especially when you have multiple targets and theres little indication of how much dmg you're doing

[humble fog]

Which ive been saying from the start

[pulsar plover]

Yeah. Rn accuracy is hardly in the equation. It's there, but so insignificant really

[silver wolf]

Same thing brother.

[pulsar plover]

Imo accuracy should soft limit your weapons before falloff really, but its the other way around as is

[humble fog]

I hate to say "other games this other games that", but you look anywhere else and that's how they tune weapons for the most part.

Sure it doesn't help that it's BattleRoblox but the traditional ways work for a reason

[pulsar plover]

even if it is, balance should folloe normal conventions more or less, unless other methods could improve on it... which I don't feel as it is rn

[next badge]

Horizontal recoil is RNG enough. I'd rather not deal with random bloom as well.

[humble fog]

Sometimes you try to reinvent things, but you just need to accept you're working on a damn wheel and it's pointless. Doesn't mean you can't pimp it with good tires and sick rims

[humble fog]

Who said random bloom?

afaik bloom is linear

[glass yoke]

literally what accuracy is lol

[pulsar plover]

accuracy "bloom" I think he means, as in random recoul with randomized bullet placement

[humble fog]

No really no but ok.

[humble fog]

I get what he means now but again it's not like we'll have extreme horizontal recoil and extreme low accuracy at the same time on a gun. Or at least I hope the devs don't do that shit

[pulsar plover]

I want to say I like high accuracy high recoil, but that comes with a lot of balancing issues too. Personally, I'd like to see accuracy and recoil both slightly decreased

Its nice being able to pop things with semiauto fire, but especially in games with high accuracy + high recoil it can just feel so borderline sickening

[silver wolf]

All SMGs should just miss every other shot at torso at 120m. (Implying perfect accuracy on shooter side)

[humble fog]

Shit man that whole accuracy rng thing is just glass half full glass half empty shit

[silver wolf]

120m is fkn a lot btw

[pulsar plover]

I think my biggest issue is it feels like smgs are supposed to be low recoil with low accuracy to make up for it

but the accuracy isnt really that low

like the number is low but the cone is still really narrow

[silver wolf]

UMP have effective range of 100m IRL. It calculated using semi auto into torso sized target

[pulsar plover]

the only thing holding them back really is falloff dmg

[humble fog]

I think Blood means within the context of a healthy game

[silver wolf]

They already super low recoil

[pulsar plover]

Yes. But the cone is TIGHT for smgs tegardless

like even with falloff, theyre by far the highest dps weapons so they are gonna have balance issues there

[humble fog]

I've seen clips of people with the Mp7 and dude, you tell me they're using an AR and I'd believe you 💀

[pulsar plover]

Yes, exaxtly

But then I use ARs and they kick like a mule

[silver wolf]

If you miss only 50% bulles in torso at 120, you hit every bullet at 60

[humble fog]

I think ARs are actually in a good spot except for only a few of them

[silver wolf]

All headshots on 30

[humble fog]

and now they're actually battle rifles

[pulsar plover]

So like either add accuracy nerfs to smgs or increase recoil yknow

Yeah BRs are my jam

[silver wolf]

Like guys, I know, geometry is hard

[pulsar plover]

scar was like the only one I enjoyed

[humble fog]

The bonus of having emphasis on accuracy instead of only pure damage drop off is it lets you fire in controlled bursts if you need to

[pulsar plover]

Yeah I hear what you're saying, whay I am saying is that, while it should be that way, the accuracy stat is really underwhelming from what I understand

[humble fog]

That's why all those elements go hand in hand together

[pulsar plover]

Maybe if theu actually dropped accuracy to like 50 or something it would reaxh that point and be more acceptable?

[humble fog]

50 acc sounds pretty harsh

Like I said, they is to not just tunnel vision on only 1 stat

it's a mix of all of them that makes good gunplay

[pulsar plover]

I think they sit at like 60-70 now, right? and homestly you can still laser on people pretty far away I feel like

[humble fog]

Well I guess you would know better

[pulsar plover]

Actually, do we have a formula for the bullet distribution at all rn? based on accuracy

[pulsar plover]

ngl its been a while since I played, but that was a big reason why I quit playing as much, superaccurate smgs melting me at AR range

[humble fog]

I'm always worried when it comes down to community balancing things that people grabbing their pitchforks ends up with things getting overnerfed or overbuffed

Games that do this burn down fast

[pulsar plover]

I agree... But (no offense in saying this) the game has a serious SMG/Movespeed issue as is imo. Snipers feel like they get pushed for nerfs, while SMGs are insane and lots of vocal people want it to stay as is

And a large part of that is due to a lack of community feedback I imagine. The vast majority of players I speak to seem to agree SMGs are an issue rn

[humble fog]

They are but they really just need very small changes

at the end of the day whoever complains they got smoked by an SMG in close range just needs to accept they got clapped and just move on

Complainers often get mixed with Haters into one big supershitstorm

[silver wolf]

Look there's my ISSUE.
I have SCAR H. Great gun IRL. Hit like a truck. Start shooting confetti past 200m
I have an option to use medium range scope. But why? Up to 200 x1 is usable

Mk14. Great gun. Somehow killing people up to 1km.
Why would I use SCAR H if I have MK14?
Same goes for G3 btw

[humble fog]

I use SCAR-H this week and with a 2x it's just

recoil is nasty

[pulsar plover]

Oh yeah, but thats the issue, the range is weirdly long. part of the reason i was mentioning smoothing the falloff curves, its gonna be harder to balance guns when they work up to "x" meters then rapidly drop off imo.

[silver wolf]

That thing is also mindboggling. SCAR H IRL recoils lighter than UMP

[pulsar plover]

I understand why they have more recoil, but "more" is a LOT more for some guns

And it feels like scar is one of those

borderline feels more DMR than BR sometimes

[silver wolf]

Before DMR buff it was a decent DMR. But all DMR were trash

RN SCAR H is just a waste

[pulsar plover]

It's quite strong rn, recoil on it just feels like overkill at times

thrn again I think that about half of the automatic rifles

my self imposed bias is real

[bitter torrent]

true like would rather use the G3 right now than the scarh

that came from dmr category

[pulsar plover]

And now it's a battlerifle so more classes can use it

...I think?

[cursive sky]

good points made in this suggestion but i would not like to see weapon spread added to the game. it will simply make guns feel worse as you have less control over where you shoot, and brings in rng to kills.

[nova canopy]

if the accuracy stat started to have meaningful impact, all horizontal recoil would have to be reduced

or else many guns will likely be just pissing bullets

[cursive sky]

at least with horizontal recoil you have some indication of where you're shooting

spread is just random

[nova canopy]

i think stacking RNG on top of RNG is a bad idea so it's best to just have one or the other

horizontal recoil is more sensible i suppose

i would advocate for removing the accuracy stat if it does little to nothing anyway

[cursive sky]

yes, it is useless iirc

[nova canopy]

basically every gun has it near or at 1.00 so it's pretty much unused

[young walrus]

Perhaps it's hard to implement in the current ballistics system.
But adding dispersion or increasing bullet drop after certain range could also be a noption

[nova canopy]

velocity directly affects bullet drop but it's a smooth curve

[cursive sky]

yeah there could be a bigger differentiation between smgs and ars in terms of drop/velocity