RPG7 / PG07 Heat - Feedback

[unkempt parrot]

Please keep it on topic, and civil, we want serious feedback

• No gifs
• No 'skill issue'

[viscid dove]

I feel HEAT is one of the only free kill option in the game. you have a weapon that one shots people hidden being cover and removes the cover. it is unreactable and destroy good positioning. I get 6 free kills as engi as of now. Having the building and one shot kill potential splitted into FRAG and HEAT would make frag more valuable and HEAT less a jack of all trade.

[heavy flare]

3rd most powerful gadget in the game. Plenty of ammo, shits on infantry, and can destroy cover like no one's business all while doing solid vehicle damage.

Needs to have the splash radius nerfed and vehicle damage to APC's and Tanks nerfed because right now it's the C4 of RPG's - able to do basically anything effectively.

If it was me I would just remove Tandems.

HEAT would have small splash radius but be able to destroy walls still.

Frag would have its splash radius slightly increased, damage boost to kill except on the outer area of the splash radius, not do building damage, not do vehicle damage UNLESS they're an "open vehicle" like the quad or humvee

[hollow bloom]

This weapon has to be one of the most unfun interactions currently in the game, moreso than dying to a sniper. If you get killed by a sniper, it's "well I guess I shouldn't have been standing there. Now I atleast know where he is and know thats a potential spot for future snipers to be."

But with this thing, it's "I guess I shouldn't have been near this wall? Or in this general radius? Or too close to a corner??"

There's just little to no feedback from dying to this thing since it feels like a sniper with a blast radius. There isn't much to learn from it and the gameplay is purely one-sided.

To iron this out, there could be a unique explosion sound to warn everyone in the area that RPGs are being fired. The tiny whistle thing they do isn't really enough right now. There could also be a distinct reload sound, so people would be aware that the engineer is reloading and to expect another shot soon. Unfortunately I don't have any ideas on how to nerf the first-shot interaction, especially since I don't play vehicle modes, but just know that this thing isn't really that healthy.

[digital lagoon]

My idea for HEAT is to make the blast radius have a custom shape. It should not be as effective as a splash damage tool against infantry as it is.

HEAT could have a truncated cone shaped area of effect, with the narrow end of the cone starting at the point of impact and being maybe 1/2 meter wide or so, with the other end of the cone being ~2 meters wide and about 4 meters or so away from the point of impact, oriented in the direction of travel.

I like this for a few reason. First, because it is somewhat closer to how a HEAT charge works in real life, which I think is neat.
Second, because it will vastly reduce the ability of HEAT to nuke infantry the way it does right now, unless it’s a direct hit.
Third, because this allows HEAT to keep its current use as an anti structure tool and a tool for killing players behind destructible walls.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[silver salmon]

I'd also prefer a narrow cone shape splash, just enough to kill someone if they're lined up with the shot rather than having big AoE splash that kills anyone in that room. That should be Frag's job.

[normal geyser]

Give heats a trail

like a smoke trail

[wild belfry]

Buff frag RPG DMG Vs infantry, nerf heat explosion radius = fixed

[strong steeple]

HEAT explosion should be altogether incapable of OHK splashes on infantry IMO. Not saying to make it useless either, even hitting for like 80 damage if it lands at your feet would be fine. But Frag should have the reserved ability for splash OHKs.

[tawdry crown]

HEAT killing infantry without direct impact/hitting a wall that they are hiding directly behind is a bit of a joke. A cone blast radius from point of impact would be a great nerf, plus just changing Frag to what HEAT does right now to INF would work I think.

[summer geode]

Currently my thoughts on Heat

When I first decided to try out engineer I thought Frag was the anti infantry option (And light vehicles like humvees & ATVs along with potentionally helicopters) & tandem was the "I want this vehicle knocked out NOW!" , sadly through Frag is completely overshadowed by HEAT (A shape charge rocket beating a fragmentation rocket)

Heat currently offers a large degree on OHK range, anti vehicle potentional and such with only competitor being the tandem in anti vehicle

[shut scaffold]

Make the frag not damage walls very much but wide area of damage to infantry + one shot , make heat destroy buildings well and small area of damage to infantry but still one shot of almost direct hit + it can one shot all humvees quad bikes and nightbirds , make tandem have a better velocity for 150 metres but drops a lot after 150 max 250 and that one shots btrs from behind + pls give it irons it just makes sense

[ember nebula]

remove one shot capability from HEAT and shift that to frag instead, and also nerf rocket count to maybe 2

this will probably force engineers to work with each other instead of being a solo dolo class, HEAT being used as a cope out AOE kill weapon is just

[digital lagoon]

Are you suggesting 2 heat RPGs max

[ember nebula]

ya

2 - 3

rn it's like, 6 no?

or 5?

[digital lagoon]

Then you wouldn’t be able to destroy a tank.

[ember nebula]

tbf HEAT in terms of theory is meant to just disable a tank so Tandem can step in

but this isn't Squad so

i don't really know how to nerf HEAT, all I know is that it shouldn't be wasted for just infantry only

[digital lagoon]

I talked a bit above about making the AOE a cone that gets wider at the far end so it can’t splash infantry as easily but can still kill people behind cover if you hit on top of them.

[ember nebula]

oh ye that sounds good

[fossil whale]

From the transport helicopter/littlebird, Heat rockets without the scope is better for killing armor.

[tawdry crown]

helicopters just hover right over you and there's nothing you can do about it, such a great thing to have in game since while in a vehicle there isn't a counter unless they are far away or really low for some reason. not quite the place for it, but helicopter passengers should only be able to use specific items while in the seats, the only 3 gadgets should be the GL, Medkit, repair tool.

[fossil whale]

You can fire back... with your own heat rocket?

[tawdry crown]

should I have specified a ground vehicle? even then I'm talking about a chopper directly above you, mostly the LB since you can aim lower from more seats.

can you even angle that high as INF?

[storm fable]

I think if you have a PG07 RPG equipped on a night map you should get a reminder about that before you spawn in

[tawdry crown]

can we just have it where it automatically removes your NVGs or you know have the lines actually illuminated.

[ancient sigil]

most versatile RPG

[mighty hatch]

Shaped charge should not act as and HE, AP and remove every wall in the radius of 5km around the impact. I'd say it should be brought down to what it is supposed to be - a way to deal with vehicles, not leveling a whole building to the ground without resupplying while killing everyone inside with an absurd fragmentation AOE. Some ideas I had: Reduce damage to structures like walls significantly (basically reduce the size of a hole it makes in a building), reduce aoe damage but perhaps leave a conic shape in front of explosion so you can still kill someone behind a wall with a direct hit of a jet (like it was suggested before), and maybe reduce total amount to 4-5 rockets, while buffing HE to allow it do it's job properly

[broken pasture]

I was playing riot shield on frugis and getting point blank RPG'd quite often.

But like, the RPG point blank really doesnt kill the engineer? Seems a bit unbalanced

[normal geyser]

Make the heat hotter

[sonic hound]

Heat definitely needs an AOE nerf. Especially now in high tick servers, im literally dying from the AOE at least 3-4 meters away sometimes.

Nerf AOE on infantry and then nerf the damage when destroying a wall. I believe it SHOULD destroy the wall completely but decrease the damage on the player when the wall is destroyed.

Right now it is just a aimlessly point, click, kill weapon being abused by players that can't aim well.

[unique crow]

It is not aimless past ~12m

[slow willow]

Not bad idea given that there is 254 players. With that amount of people, they shouldn't be able to do some things alone. That kind of defeats teamwork

[strong steeple]

It's trivial to aim at any range once you have a rangefinder.

In particular it's trivial to use M110 engi and just switch to RPG to blast open anything that obstructs your sightlines/kill wounded targets that ran to cover.

[fresh moss]

that seems like a really far ways away to get killed by the AOE

as an engie who uses the PG07 a lot at least it isnt that large

[sonic hound]

ive had that shit literally land behind me and then kill me in a delay on high tick.

dont really care if you play engie or not. it's what appears on my screen

[fresh moss]

idk im just saying as someone who has used it a bunch if the AOE was smaller it would be kinda underpowered

[sonic hound]

whether thats what the server is actually registering or the game client is too slow to process the rpg on high tick

[fresh moss]

yeah maybe

idk

[sonic hound]

all i know is that if a heat explosive is aimed in my general direction, it doesnt have to hit me to kill me. it happens way more frequently on high tick

similar issue with guns the honey badger or vector on high tick with high ping. just insta killed

[junior kayak]

honey badger has good ttk same as vector but they aren't the fastet ones, that's a connection issue but ye heat has meh balance

[fickle island]

it really, really, really wouldn't be

you're already very good at dealing with vehicles, can easily destroy walls, and can one tap people through walls as well

HEAT doesn't need the AOE on top of that. it should only kill on direct hits

[tawdry crown]

shouldn't really do shit to walls besides a small hole lets be honest

[fresh moss]

The one taps through walls is kinda busted but I disagree with the rest

[fresh moss]

And no it literally specifies it is for breaking through them in the desc

[tawdry crown]

that is not how HEAT works. blowing up a circle around where it hits with the force going forward would be far simpler. HEAT having a miniscule blast radius would also be true to form.

[summer geode]

I would be okay with it being given a small sphere & than a cone going forward

[tawdry crown]

yeah just not "fuck everything within 5 meters" like it currently is.

[brazen bramble]

A reminder that there will always be a negative bias in feedback posts because content players don't go out of their way to provide feedback.

I think Heat RPGs are overall in a good spot.

[slow willow]

That's debatable, it definitely is too good against infantry. It's splash radious is definitely too big.
Against vehicles It's all right, and any concerns I would have are about RPG'S as a whole.
Destruction is also good tbh

[tawdry crown]

its in a good spot if the other RPGs didn't exist.
I rather have choices that fit niches rather than just a jack of all trades

[slow willow]

Yeah, HEAT makes FRAG notviable by its existence alone

Tandem has its niche tho

[tawdry crown]

it does, but that's a bit too far. the "Flat Damage" style of explosives' make it hard to deal with. instead of bypassing armor like it was designed to do, it just does a shitton of damage to mimic that effect. which is great for fighting tanks, even if its a bit over tuned, but leaves every other ground vehicle one shot away from death.

So instead of tandem being "anti-ERA", Heavy armor for the purpose of BB, its anti every vehicle and tanks.

FRAG goes without saying of course. it was severely over tuned to what it is now after it was a killing machine in testing.

[summer geode]

Jack of all trades, master of pretty much all

[tawdry crown]

Yeah, that is obviously not a good thing.

[desert moat]

this is more of a every RPG feedback. Let them track distance too.

[tawdry crown]

track distance?

[desert moat]

All weapons track the longest kill distance. Equipment and vehicles don't.

[tawdry crown]

ah that's what you mean

[tacit furnace]

This's less of an issue with the HEAT in particular and more RPGs in general, but for the love of dogs, please remove the ability to fire RPGs from inside vehicles! It should NOT be possible to fire a freakin' rocket launcher from inside a dogdamned helicopter (for so many reasons even!)

[tawdry crown]

disable all offensive gadgets while in vehicles maybe?

[tacit furnace]

Or just disable all gadgets while in vehicles. imo that'd be a perfectly fine way of fixing it

[tawdry crown]

could be, then you got the engys ranting about how they cant repair midair anymore.

[tacit furnace]

Yeah, but who even gives a shit about them though? Mid-air repairs are OP anyway lol

[tawdry crown]

It nots mid-air repairs that are Op its that you can have an entire team inside just repairing, especially if you are running an RPG helo. If there is a cap on how fast a vehicle can be repaired, its too high right now.

[tacit furnace]

Just goes to prove my point really. Better to remove all that shit imo

[tawdry crown]

or just put a cap like most every other game with repair functions?

[tacit furnace]

Yeah, I guess, but mid-air repairs are kinda dumb anyway, so I don't think it'd be at all bad if they just removed 'em altogether

[tawdry crown]

that's like saying that field repairs are just as stupid and should be removed. what makes it "stupid" mid-air is that the helo has so much fucking health in the first place, meaning you can out heal most damage because we have no dedicated AA platform.

the apc can't traverse or elevate enough to hit a well piloted chopper, same with the tank. and RPGs as AA are either luck or a bad pilot. bullets might as well tickle the thing. so little burst damage is available to counter the helo what little damage being done can easily be out healed, and if it gets hit hard it just flies far enough away getting hit again is unlikely.

The problem isn't really the repairs, its the helo itself.

[tacit furnace]

Thing is, a helo can easily move at full speed and thus avoid 90% of all incoming damage while getting repaired, so it's a bad comparison

A tank can move at maybe half speed while getting repaired, and even then the driver's gotta be super-mindful of obstacles and shit

[tawdry crown]

thank you for proving my point about the helo bud

the problem is not the repair tool, its the helo being the way it is.

[tacit furnace]

And my point is that helicopters don't need mid-air repairs and shouldn't have them 'cause they can literally move 4x as fast as any land-based vehicle due to the lack of terrain, and so going back to base for repairs should nullify the point with mid-air repairing

Having to actually land your helo for repairs should be a crucial trade-off for all that mobility and serve as a balancing point to make 'em far more vulnerable to counter-attacks/ambushes

[tawdry crown]

so you just want to remove a function all together, because you simply cannot fathom that something else is the actual problem.

Nobody is ever going to land for repairs. ever. they will die flying or go back to base and hover for a few seconds to repair the miniscule amount of damage done to the chopper.

[tacit furnace]

...that's kinda the point

[tawdry crown]

again, you are wanting to remove a whole function of a tool hardly anyone uses, because the helo has too much health.

[tacit furnace]

If nobody uses it, then may as well remove it, yeah? It'd be a way faster fix than trying to allow some tools/gadgets to be used while inside a vehicle but not others

[tawdry crown]

would be just as fast of a fix to just lower the health of the chopper.

[tacit furnace]

...which's entirely unrelated to the above-mentioned issue

[tawdry crown]

it is, because thats the cause of mid-air repairs being OP. since, you know, the repair tool is a gadget?

[tacit furnace]

So? How is that even remotely related to the insanely dumb practice of letting players fire RPGs from inside helicopters/other vehicles?

[tawdry crown]

you continued talking about it. it went from your RPGs, to offensive gadgets, to all gadgets.

[unique crow]

I do agree that RPGs shouldn't be able to be fired from helis but other gadgets are fine. Although maybe the repair tool's effect should be nerfed from 98% to 60-75% for moving vehicles.

[tawdry crown]

capping repairs so that only one or two engys are actually effective would be a nice change instead of just straight removal. the capping it further on moving vehicles sounds really good, though I don't know how hard that would be to implement since it sounds very dependent on the server.

[tacit furnace]

I dunno 'bout that chief, 'cause I reckon being able to throw C4 outta helos could be almost as abusable as firing RPGs from them

I mean, it'd literally be like having remote detonated carpet bombs to drop on enemies

[tawdry crown]

^litterally how some squads use the LB. annoying as hell if your in a vehicle.

[tacit furnace]

Either way, the devs should absolutely remove the ability to use RPGs/other offensive gadgets at least when inside vehicles

[tawdry crown]

this^ but the only one I'm gonna argue to keep is the RPG Quad/PWC

[tacit furnace]

Well, with those it wouldn't be much of an issue I'd reckon, and for the PWC in particular you'd basically have no other options to engage "aquatic" IFVs (aside from other IFVs but omfd they deal so fucking little damage to one another...)

[tawdry crown]

yeah, wouldn't be the biggest loss ever, but I could stand losing them if all offensive gadgets were restricted in vehicles.

[tacit furnace]

Mostly I just want this fucking garbage with RPGs fired from helos to be removed. It's just cancerous af since there's no real counter at all

[shut scaffold]

Bro but I love when me and my friends attach rocket pods to an experienced pilot it’s so funny

[digital lagoon]

One of my favorite memories playing this game is from this. Start of a tensatown match, both teams send transport little birds to that point in the far northeast (I don’t remember which letter it is). I managed to hit the other little bird with a tandem while we both came in to land on the roof. ~12 kills, good times.

[fossil whale]

Shoot back.

[digital lagoon]

It’s really funny though lmao

[normal geyser]

Dodge, duh

[snow thunder]

You got killed by a flying heli with rpgs?

[unique crow]

The only helicopter seats that you should be able to fire rpgs from are the side seats on the military littlebird unarmed

[hollow veldt]

Mass 4.5 kg. Maximum (!!) range 200 meters. Type: thermobaric, flame. So needs 1 second to ignite explosion. What it means? With that movement speed of actors you can run out the explosion. IRL of course not. It should not be area-sniper-rifle.

instead of

Mass 2.6 kg, range 500 meters, NO SCATTER, only Cumulative.

[summer geode]

I have shot a flying heli down, from another heli before if it helps lol

[snow thunder]

haven't tried C4?

[summer geode]

Nope

still sad that I never get a kill from shooting down helios

[snow thunder]

That's an unfortunate story

[rose tendon]

So it destroys walls and roofs with one shot, but takes multiple shots to destroy player-made barricades? That never made sense to me

[summer geode]

for hescos it makes some sense

[slow willow]

30mm/120mm rounds are stopes by fences, so...

[unique crow]

I mean, sand bag = heavy and soft cinderblock = brittle, and not as heavy

[tacit furnace]

Even if I hadn't, it's objectively wrong for the game to allow players to pull that kinda shit. The devs themselves have said they don't ever wanna add "vehicles with rockets". And what is a helicopter with RPG-toting cheapskates if not a vehicle with rockets?

[snow thunder]

Lmao

[latent sorrel]

cry some more

[tacit furnace]

And that's coming from a low-brow troll whose sole purpose in this thread is to stir shit up for no valid reason whatsoever. Go read a book, buddy

[latent sorrel]

literally my first message here xd, its more fun than having rocket pods on littlebirds
its not like every game there is a squad in a transport lb just shooting rpgs at people
only a couple of maps have transport lb I think its : River, Wakistan, Tensa town, and eduardovo

you can shoot us down easily: with aug, 7m, m2, m110 is good as well

[snow thunder]

Yeah the thing is with this that it requires teamwork and organisation unlike an attack copter that has rockets to be shot by the pilot without no teamwork (unless there is a gunner but that's another type of dough)

Its like when the tank's Driver and main gunner seats were separated, and you needed a good driver and a good main gunner.

[slow willow]

He has a point

[slow willow]

That's not true. It's the LB argument all over again. Even tho you can shokt at heli, this time your chances to die are much higher because someone will send RPg at your face.

Not to mention that vehicles struggle with countering them too

[shut scaffold]

He does but I don’t like it 🥹

[shut scaffold]

Also the vehicle argument sure you might miss an rpg on the lil bird and be killed by it but you just respawn 10 seconds later and do it again

[tawdry crown]

if the pilot is any sort of competent, you will miss.

[slow willow]

or wait 4-6 minutes if you were in a vehicles, which doesn't have a counter to that

[shut scaffold]

Lb is not gonna kill a tank silly

[shut scaffold]

Ik how to fix

Ban good pilots 😱

[slow willow]

LB with 2 engis or anyone with C4 will

And does that

With no counterplay

Becouse you will not hit a good pilot from main gun, and 7m L vehicle dmg is a joke

[latent sorrel]

think again

little bitch got out, he should have accepted his fate like a man

[junior kayak]

shoot faster

[latent sorrel]

I hit the weak spot twice in a row xd, can't do it faster than that

[shut scaffold]

Though it meant the attack lilbird 😅

[fossil whale]

I used to do this all the time when I cared to play infantry maps. River is an absolute slaughter with the rocktets since there's no armed littlebird. It's really fun fighting the enemy transport littlebird too with your side gunners.

[fossil whale]

Helicopters are the victium of armor. They should be able to fight back, and fight back we do!

[fossil whale]

How do you get the transport littlebird on Wakistan?

[tawdry crown]

there's a single spawn for it on c

and yes RPGs on a chopper are literally only fun for the guys in that chopper, since 9 times out of 10 its going to be luck that takes down one of them. offensive gadgets as a whole need to be restricted while in vehicles.

[snow thunder]

64vs64

[latent sorrel]

I play the 64v64 version, it spawns in the base, the 127v127 version however only has blackhawks

[tacit furnace]

dafuq? No

[fossil whale]

Keep your hands AWAY from my tail rotor.

[fossil whale]

Good grief. Why did I collapse message. They get picked of regularly by snipers and groundfire. If you fly over the middle objective you are garunteed to lose at least one crewmate from groundfire, even if you have a medic healing.

[snow thunder]

Yeah I can comfirm that.
When we do shit soviet(my gunner) dies because the sheer reason that he is sitting on the side of the heli.

The amount of risk is to the gunners is pretty high, ngl.
It depends on the pilot little bit but even if the pilot does some zigzags to break the lead the gunner won't survive that sometimes

[brazen bramble]

Some of the takes here are really something. You encounter players creatively working together for a high risk high reward tactic, and your response to that is to sterilize the game. Why bother to learn how to deal with different situations, when you can just cut off approach options through arbitrary means?

At this point, let's just prevent players from shooting their weapons at all in Helicopters or any vehicle for that matter. I want players to just be sitting ducks when they enter any vehicle. I don't even want them to be able to look around, because God forbid they spot me, ping me, and then their infantry squad mate lights me up.

[slow willow]

By that logic, LB shouldn't be nerfed

Why was it nerfed, because it was deemed to effective.

Teaming up, cooperating to achive better effectivens is ok, to a point, especially when there is no tangible counter

[brazen bramble]

While this was in response to players making use of their kit while in helicopters, I've noticed these attitudes throughout other unorthodox but fun parts parts of the game. Normally I wouldn't give it a second thought, but the fact that BattleBit developers have listened to this part of the community in the past has me worried for the future of the game. I wouldn't be surpised if many of these changes contributed to the player count dropping as quickly as it did. A lot of what brought players in was the fun within the absurdity and chaos, and a lot of it has gone bit by bit because a vocal minority wanted the game to go their way and only their way.

[brazen bramble]

It should have never been nerfed, at least not the way it was.

It's a glass cannon that didn't need a hard counter, because everything could counter it.

It can't even do shit to ATVs and Tanks.

[slow willow]

BUT, it was

[brazen bramble]

The only time it became a bit too strong was the 50% damage reduction + bandages healing 40 because it increased its survivability in the form of tankiness.

[slow willow]

so, yeah, point still stands, even if it shouldn't

[brazen bramble]

I've never had a match where an LB was dominating and I had over 150 hours in 256 lobbies before I stopped playing before it was nerfed.

If there was, I probably didn't notice because that thing would kill me once-twice max per game.

Not unlike the camping tanks/APCs sitting in safe zone and covering an objective or its flanks.

[slow willow]

Same, I have never saw it as a problem

It was literally reddit made boogy man

[brazen bramble]

I wouldn't be surprised if half those posts were just bots and shit since the API was shut down.

But also it's Reddit.

[slow willow]

They demanded nerfs out of inconvinience, not unbalance, and destroyed only valid vehicle gameplay loop

Just becouse

and then went on the witch hunt for 2 clans and one person in name

[brazen bramble]

I loved using the LB, and the only clan I've ever been in was my own, lol.

[main holly]

i think rpgs need some changes as most of my deaths are from rpgs and idk man dosnt feel too fun maybe make the ones for tanks do less spash dmg

[languid arch]

why is the rpg blacklisted?

[tawdry crown]

I'm sorry?

[ancient sigil]

ur on a community server that blacklists rpg

to fix that simply go to an official server instead of communiyy

[brazen bramble]

I have never once felt that way. Whenever I get killed by an RPG, I think, "Shit, I got outplayed" or "I should have expected that." However whenever I get killed by a sniper, I think, "Of course, there would be someone camping there. Guess we're not allowed to have fun. Now I gotta switch to kill this camping bi--"

That's how I actually felt, and what's crazy is that back then, I didn't even want them to be nerfed because everything and anything could kill anywhere; it was all fair game. However, with all this recent community outcry and the resulting nerfs, it is time for snipers to fall in line too:
#1138743146541486130 message

[broken pasture]

After testing the heat round. It doesnt have ANY self damage? Why? Thats hilariously broken and well deserving of the title of noob tube.

Im assuming its all RPG rounds that are like this, that's really dumb

[summer geode]

What?

[broken pasture]

if you shoot your feet with the rpg theres no self damage.

Noob gun

[snow thunder]

If you shoot too close to urself you wont

[humble olive]

Highly realistic RPG arming distance

[tawdry crown]

almost like the thing wont go off to close. though it aint realstic since you can use it in the same room and it will explode.

[snow thunder]

Man making it fully realistic would be a bit if of time, making a system that counts how much meters are behind and if you are in open air or not with a dynamic world

[delicate flume]

Blast radius needs an extreme reduction. No reason I should be dying standing 10 feet behind 2 walls

[tawdry crown]

you aren't dying from that HEAT then.

[delicate flume]

Point still stands. These feel on par with OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2

[tawdry crown]

we've been wanting specialization from the rpgs for a while. its on the radar at least.

[mortal jungle]

HEAT should 100% only kill on direct hits

frag should be the one with splash damage

[snow thunder]

God damn

[unique crow]

I agree with this, but it should always kill on direct hits, none of the nonsense like frag currently

[strong steeple]

At least noob tubes couldn't destroy cover
The availability of RPGs is definitely excessive atm

[main holly]

I die at least half my deaths to rpgs so maybe a bit excessiv

[fresh moss]

Ok but if you want to kill helis then just aim for the tail or just rocket well

Helis have a good amount of health because once you get low you have to deal with gettting back while the entire enemy team fires rockets

[strong steeple]

And that is only a problem because of their painfully slow acceleration. HP should go down and acceleration up. Then no more silly tanky helos and more interesting maneuvers become possible.

[normal geyser]

Just dodge, duh

[snow thunder]

or position yourself well, or if you saw an rpg was shot into a room don't appear in the windows in the rooms near you or just retreat with one room.

[normal geyser]

I think the issue is that also kill you behind the walls a lot

[strong steeple]

"Just stay away from any place you can be shot at from" sounds like fun and engaging gameplay

[mortal jungle]

i think killing someone behind a wall is fine as long as you hit them directly. what's not fine is RPGs going through walls and killing with splash damage

[slow willow]

Literally your spawn

[snow thunder]

No, what I mean is that if you are in a room, you shouldn't hug the wall at all, if you saw your squad get hacked up by an rpg guy you shouldn't enter that room

I have no problem with heat, when i even die to it, its just a direct shot, I rarely die to people who use the RPG's splash radius to kill, just because of these set routines.

[strong steeple]

Of course, don't enter that room, so the RPG can freely keep shooting through each wall until you have no rooms to fall back to.

[snow thunder]

you fall back and flank lmao, also in the monstrositicy like lonovo falling back to a room is not that hard, you go up either one roof or down, or you obscure vision by smoke and fortify with hescos cuz the rpg cant destroy that much then a regular wall.

buildables can be good cuz hesco for example are so thick the rpg won't make you so dead it will leave you wounded or scratched

[fresh moss]

Idk I like it with more tanky but slower helis

[fresh moss]

That’s not how it works though

If the person is up in a building a floor or 2 above then the floor would block

And otherwise there pretty easy to flank or just shoot at after they fire the rocket

But either way I usually only see people get killed through walls when they had peaked and were right where they were or if they had their feet sticking though

And then the rocket is pretty much just a faster way to c4 them

[strong steeple]

Yes, and C4 is already extremely powerful so why are we okay with a class getting access to C4 and long-distance C4 at no real cost? Like, at least Recons lose the opportunity to have a flexible primary in exchange for the sniper.

[strong steeple]

If you're somewhere in Lonovo or Sandysunset center, you have a dozen windows to scan for and every RPG opens up more angles for you to get shot at from

[fresh moss]

That’s the same problem you would have with snipers though

Especially with marksman rifles

[fresh moss]

Because it’s engineer

That’s the entire point of the class

Vehicle shenanigans and explosives = engineer

And recon loses the primary because they aren’t supposed to be close / med range

[mortal jungle]

doesn't really matter that it's the engineers "thing"

HEAT is still grossly overtuned, and a "one size fits all" tool for infantry, buildings, and vehicles

[normal geyser]

Can heat be heat seeking? For funzies

[tawdry crown]

just pull out the battlefield tracker gun

[strong steeple]

Good thing engineer gets all three right?

[strong steeple]

What you aren't "supposed" to be comes second to game balance. And a sniper rifle is definitely a powerful thing to have. But so is an RPG and engineers are not any worse off for that.

[fresh moss]

yeah thats design not balance

different

[strong steeple]

Balance is a subset of design my dude...

[fresh moss]

fair but design as in "X class does Y job"

[strong steeple]

Either way, I say this from my own experience exploiting this shit. Engi with RPG+DMR is just stupid easy kills in any urban environment map.

[fresh moss]

thats fair

[strong steeple]

And in this case, I do argue for a change in design philosophy. Engi at the moment feels like X class does way too many jobs and Recon feels like it does a single one. I think redistributing things a bit makes sense.

[fresh moss]

yeah thats fair

honestly i would like a class thats more vehicle focused too

but id say that the rockets should be rebalanced into:

• kill infantry (frag)
• kill buildings and slightly infantry (HEAT)
• kill tanks (tandem)

[tawdry crown]

HEAT should not kill buildings. just add fucking Thermo if you want buildings killed, its the only one that should actually do anything to a building besides a hole like a meter wide at most.

[normal geyser]

I'd be fine with it if it didn't one tap everyone behind a wall

[delicate flume]

exactly

[fresh moss]

Disregarding reality because this is a basically a roblox game: it should because it’s in the description and that’s the main niche left out by the other 2 I suggested

[tawdry crown]

You act like its something that is healthy for the game. it isn't, because the necessitates a wide blast radius, which means a wide area of player damage, which is the main problem people have with HEAT.

[strong steeple]

Demolition radius doesn't imply high player damage

[tawdry crown]

right, so the blast radius does not mean it will damage anybody in the blast radius

[strong steeple]

Not that the HEAT needs to have any bigger AoE either way

[tawdry crown]

logic

[strong steeple]

It can do like 10 damage

[tawdry crown]

explosives deal HP damage

this game has an HP only system

wtf do you think is going to happen?

so either the HEAT does nothing to anything

or it kills players while blowing up half a building

[strong steeple]

Have you ever interacted with an antivehicle mine

[tawdry crown]

man its almost like those were abused too

[strong steeple]

So?

[tawdry crown]

right I forgot you like to act stupid

[strong steeple]

They were basically only used for demolitions

[tawdry crown]

they were abused for that fact, and its damage was secondary

no shit

[strong steeple]

And they were nerfed

[tawdry crown]

we are trying to move away from that

[strong steeple]

So it turns out you can tweak things independently

[tawdry crown]

a mine you place on the ground, is alot different from rocket launched from 500 meters away

[strong steeple]

It's all a bunch of numbers in a spreadsheet somewhere in Oki's computer that can be tweaked until it feels balanced

Including availability of ammo

[tawdry crown]

it will not, like ever

because you nerf the RPG to something that fits the game, the individual feels fucking useless

especially if you cant kill something with low ammo

[strong steeple]

Your inability to conceive something does not render it impossible ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tawdry crown]

right buddy

so explain how you would fix it currently

go ahead, you seem to have a plan

[strong steeple]

Reduce HEAT AoE damage against players and reduce ammo to 2 + a gear slot that gives 2 extra ammo so engis that want long distance demolition have to give up C4

[tawdry crown]

what part of "the game uses an HP only system" do you not understand?

AP mines blast radius and damage was nerfed

not "player damage"

[strong steeple]

What part of "you're not a game developer and whether something can or cannot be done is none of your business"

do you not get

Just make a suggestion and Oki will decide whether to implement it or not

[tawdry crown]

HP only system, assumes player damage and vehicle damage are somehow different.

you really are smart

its not like that's the whole problem with RPGs and explosives.

[strong steeple]

It is. So it needs to be fixed. Just because there's a shitty implementation at the moment doesn't mean it should or will stay that way.

[tawdry crown]

so, in the end you agree with me

why the fucking argument then

[fresh moss]

I’m literally saying to turn the damage down for it

[tawdry crown]

you can't because its not specilized as utility and still needs to kill vehicles.

[normal geyser]

I'm pretty sure there's a separated stat for specifically vehicle damage already

So it can do less hp damage, but more vehicle damage

[tawdry crown]

depends on how it is defined, but it seems to purely be armor stats, not HP. else a m249 laying into a btr could kill it in a mag or two of sustained fire.

if it is defined as player HP i don't see how that's a problem, but since the clarification it seems to be armor damage and not just Damage period.

[slow willow]

There are inf hp, light vehicle hp and heavy vehicle hp (only apc and tank)

So yeah, 3 different pools

[normal geyser]

I think for vehicle damage is just called armor damage

I think it's just named that. I don't think they have actual armor

Also I don't think the m249 damages the btrs

Could be wrong about that though

[slow willow]

No

[slow willow]

There are to types, light and heavy, like I said above

[normal geyser]

I can't read bro

I'm just guessing at what people are saying

[slow willow]

It happens to the best

[shut scaffold]

No tho

They can just change to have building damage as well

[knotty tulip]

nerf

[digital lagoon]

Or nothin’

[summer geode]

https://tenor.com/view/nerf-gif-21095040

I saw a better one but this one reminded me more of support

[hollow kernel]

literally the silliest RPG any game has ever had

[strong steeple]

Looks like skill issue. That's what you get for not permanently sprinting and trying to aim instead of spraying hipfire at point blank range.

[hollow kernel]

clearly i need to increase my dosage of adhd medication

[tawdry crown]

...that would have a counter effect though

[digital lagoon]

Gamers when they are killed by a weapon in a video game

[hollow kernel]

[unique crow]

Or using an AK15 as a dmr to harass a sniper

Sniper: gets up
Me: Blam
Sniper: gets back into cover and bandages
Sniper: gets up
Me: Blam

Repete until Sniper out of bandages or you get killed by an smg medic

[mortal jungle]

yeah this shit needs to be nerfed into the ground lmao

so fucking dumb that you can do this shit, while also being a tangible threat to any and all vehicles

[hollow kernel]

the damage radius and the sheer velocity of that thing is probably the main issue rn

could top it off by adding movement penalties like exo armor does

might discourage crackhead rpg flinging all over the place

[mortal jungle]

splash damage needs to completely removed for HEAT and tandem, only frag should have it
and you should only be able to equip the launchers in the primary gadget slot, so you're forced to choose between the RPGs and the other gadgets like C4 and mines. vehicle repair tool should be forced like how the medkit is forced on medic

[hollow kernel]

or at the very least, lower the lethal damage radius to like .2 meters, that way you have to at least aim to get kills

but at the same time, that thing is basically at terminal velocity the moment it leaves the launcher, so its not that hard to miss

[slow willow]

1. Shot hit rignt near you on a vertcial surface, totally fair death.
2. You were hugging the wall, also fair death
3. Direct shot, also fair.
   I either don't understand sarcasm, or you choose very bad examples.
   I hate RPG'S, but like, those shots were ok

[mortal jungle]

"it's a totally fair death to completely miss you and then kill you instantly anyway"

please say sike

[slow willow]

Splash dmg is a thing

In every game

That's like, a whole point of RPG'S

To have splash

[junior kayak]

the first one was to his side
the last one did some weird direct impact and only the wall hugging one feels justified tbh

[strong steeple]

Duh, all you have to do is never be near a wall or vertical surface. Or horizontal surface if they have elevation against you.

[junior kayak]

uhm for the frag one ye, but not for a shaped charge like heat is

[strong steeple]

Just be forever running and jumping, it's obviously what the devs want.

[slow willow]

Yeah,it was, but like splash damage exists

[junior kayak]

and it shouldn't.
atleast not on heat

[strong steeple]

In fact, just put some glue on your W key so you never stop moving. Instant KDR boost.

[slow willow]

If you want to be realistic, splash dmg of HEAT is like, kill/maim in 2 m radious. Simmilarly like currently

Frag is a lot bigger

[junior kayak]

ye but it obviously isn't balanced, especially not with the presence of frag...

[strong steeple]

I mean I'm fine with it splashing me through a wall. But maybe it should do like 50 damage instead of 500?

[junior kayak]

ye

[strong steeple]

Or maybe we should just let sniper bullets go through walls since that's obviously balanced. I mean, you still need a headshot for it to be OHK so it's still worse than an RPG.

[fickle rivet]

• Nerf HEAT on infantry (lower lethal AoE) actually it's just one of the best weapon to get a lot of kills it's not normal. It's supposed to be HEAT to destroy heavy armored vehicles not people infantry, you've a lot of ammo, the rocket goes straight and faster than a lot of FPS of the same genre, it should be less stronger against infantry.
• Buff HEAT on Tranpor-heli, not normal to do only 20%dmg on an helicopter with a HEAT rocket. After a HEAT nerf on infantry there will be less engineer pick and if it's still a problem because there's too much rocket in the air, just nerf the ammo max like 3 instead of 4.

[snow thunder]

On the second point:
No, when you see xy values displayed after you damage a vehicle but not killing it, it means how much percent you damaged that vehicle out of 100%

So its not 20dmg, its 20% out of 100%, the BH/KA60's health is 3000 hp.
So each shots deals 600 damage to the heli, not 20

[fickle rivet]

Yeah I know it's %.. and it doesn't change at all what I was explaining but I can put the % if it's better for you.

[snow thunder]

Nah, you didn't know.
You know its a big difference when you say RPG deals 20dmg and or 600dmg.

[fickle rivet]

.. ah yes.. I didn't know.. then how I know you need 5 RPG if it only deals 20dmg? Instead of taunting like a pig because I wrote 20dmg what about evolving around what I wrote mh?

[snow thunder]

Also idk if you ever flew the BH ever

[snow thunder]

Lmao remember to put % whenever you discuss such thing, cuz if you don't you really make it look like you misinforming

[fickle rivet]

So.. back to the point.. You've nothing interesting to say around it now it's % ? :^)

[snow thunder]

ah yes, what is the motivation behind your points?
you want to make the blackhawk one shot, what's your aim?

cuz I feel like, for the amount of speed they can have, and the lack of manovueability they have, having them less than 5-4 shots to take down will make them downgrade, because if you reduce their HP theoretically, firearms, Littlebirds, will destroy them more than anything else, mostly.

[normal geyser]

Mom, dad, stop fighting 😭

[strong steeple]

Damage can be separated. It shouldn't survive more than 3 RPGs. It can keep its resistance against everything else.

inb4 current system doesn't support that, idc, make it support it.

[snow thunder]

there is no such thing as damage separation, if it is, then that would be another type of work, that can complicate things even further

[tawdry crown]

still needed.

[hollow kernel]

yea the amount of people who died here should give you a good impression on how nutty the kill radius on this thing is

[tawdry crown]

there was likely someone stupid who placed a mine there or something, unless everyone was way below half health

[hollow kernel]

if i got killed by someone shooting a mine, it would have said the mine killed me

[tawdry crown]

I'm talking about them

you weren't close

[hollow kernel]

well there aren't any mines nearby

[tawdry crown]

so you got hit, they blew up because of something else

actually, rewatching, yeah that looks like 4 people, and like 3 different rockets

the first one that kills you hits behind you, another one in front, and the one that comes from up and behind you

[hollow kernel]

they were already dead when the second one hit

[normal geyser]

mr president, they were already dead when the second one hit 🫡

[hollow kernel]

pretty much the vibe of that situation

[tawdry crown]

that's missile 3 I think

[hollow kernel]

nope thats the 2nd

couldn't even find a 3rd one

[tawdry crown]

nah dude

you die, you see explosion

[hollow kernel]

that explosion right after i die is caused by the one that killed me

[tawdry crown]

you look back, second explosion

possible 2

then you see new rocket from behind

missle 2

first one blew up at your feet

3-5 meter blast radius

which is as advertised

[hollow kernel]

yea thats the one that hit when everyone were already dead

[tawdry crown]

might even be less than 3

first one looks like it hit in the middle of basically everyone

last picture is rocket one

just noticed that one medic living through all that

[hollow kernel]

yeah even a 3 meter blast radius is pretty damn high for something that basically goes as fast as a bullet

[tawdry crown]

actually 2 of them

its far slower than that... by alot

but you are getting shot at from like 20 meters at most

[fickle rivet]

"HEAT" btw => more efficient on infantry

[fickle rivet]

Did I say devs should reduce their HP? I said RPG HEAT should deal way more damage on Transport Heli than on Infantry, and people just above this new message can confirm that there's a problem.
You keep talking about "uuuuh it'll get OS", again, Battlefield did it multiple times, sure you've to have a brain to pilot it and not go into a full army of 10 people, because you can actually do it if they don't have an RPG, you'll not land 5 RPG shot in like 2s because people are fighting/getting covered/don't even have a RPG to shoot on the heli.
Thing you could say : enemies can shoot with guns on it, that's a point but still there's 2 miniguns (are they strong enough?) and people in heli can actually shoot too, so use it as it should : pilot it well, try to have some cover in a way, go back to repair, etc.
Battlefield did it on many games, with way more players average and it was not a problem that less than 5 RPG destoyed them, if you nerf the HEAT on Infantry, people will play less engineer and then you'll be less taken down by those guys.
After some test on beta branch or on current patch we can try if 4 or 3 is good enough, that's how you test things

[snow thunder]

thanks I understand now.
with the miniguns on BH, you need to experience it yourself, they can set LBs on flames after a bit of tailing, but i don't think that they might be good against full HP inf, sure you can shoot 4-50hp no armor inf in a burst, but doing the same with full armored people is difficult.

with RPG L vehicle damage buff I might be against it because the BH, is a bird that you can easily shoot down with tanks APCs, or RPGs by shooting the tail, and you need just one shot.
I like the fact that BH is resilient against RPGs, because you only need to mind about APCs/tanks, to not hit your tail.
With 3 rpgs to shoot down, I feel like that the BH would be nerfed a lot, that 2 rpg shots matters you know.

[fickle rivet]

The tank shooting was also the thing in BF, but even worse, you one shooted them actually not just in tail but in general
The 5 RPG to 3 will matter if you don't nerf RPG infantry and there's still 30%+ of the playerbase going engineers because "lol what about doing some triple kills easy with a rocket for vehicles"

I also want to clarify a big point : there's no attack chopper / jet fighter / Javelin, Stinger, Igla on this game AND heli transports get OS with tanks shells and RPG in BF, now imagine they were still played and no one talks about it?

The transport heli's miniguns in BF were also stronger against infantry iirc but because they are transport vehicles and can be destroyed easily you would use them to defend the heli (that's their purpose)

[strong steeple]

The problem with strong guns on presumed transport vehicles is that then it just becomes a machine for farming people in isolated areas. Why risk being a taxi for randos into a dangerous zone when you could just fly around the edges of the map with a couple of buddies hunting down snipers and small squads?

[fickle rivet]

True but I think it can be ok if they're also easier to hit, I dont know atm if a RPG can kill minigun dude when the aoe touch heli first, I think I'll have to try some weird stuff on private server
The miniguns dont have to be very strong just enough to kill like a bad ttk weapon based on the fact youve no ammo problem and far range

[hollow kernel]

honestly, irl, RPGs are heavy as fuck, like it usually takes a soldier quite a few seconds to even aim the launcher properly without dropping it or falling over. they should honestly have a movement penalty kinda like Exo armor does. a longer ADS time or less accuracy while moving would also make sense

[strong steeple]

IMO it should just force you out of ADS whenever you move. So you always need to stand out in the open for at least a moment before firing. I have never seen a video of anyone firing an RPG while walking around.

[tawdry crown]

you can see videos of people blind firing em, throwing it over a trench to take a potshot, leaning out very quickly, taking several steps to the side to only expose the launcher. plenty of people run with them shouldered. the thing does not have much recoil, so you can stick your arms out to take a shot.

a movement penalty could work, but not an ADS one, especially since the game requires you to ADS to fire.

[strong steeple]

Yeah, sure, you can have it on your shoulder. That's different from keeping your eye perfectly aligned with the sights.

[tawdry crown]

you really have never seen combat footage of guys doing exactly that?

easier with only the irons, but possible with the scope.

also, since there is no actual hipfire in this game, only point fire, there's no reason for us to be required to ADS. But since we are, a movement penalty is fine, but an ADS one is not.

[unique crow]

HEAT:
1sk AoE: Cone that goes through materials, ~1.5m in length
2sk AoE: Sphere ~1m in radius

Tandem:
1sk AoE: cone that goes through materials 2m in length.

Frag:
1sk AoE: ~1m radius sphere
2sk AoE: ~7.5m radius sphere

[mortal jungle]

splitting the feedback threads for the RPGs was so dumb

you can't balance one in a vacuum, they have to be balanced against one another

[unique crow]

Yeah
#1159513116401467464

[strong steeple]

It seems to be the default way they make them. But we ended up getting all the faction-equivalent vehicle threads merged, so I'm sure if we ask the mods nicely they'll indulge. Now we just need to decide which of all three should be the one that remains.

[summer geode]

best guess is heat

[mortal jungle]

tandem has almost twice the posts though

[slow willow]

Because this motherfucker is problematic

[mortal jungle]

all of the RPGs are problematic in one way or another

frag is problematic because it's frankly useless, HEAT is problematic because it's a braindead splash damage 1 hit kill that goes through walls, and is also very strong agaisnt vehicles, and tandem is problematic because it makes vehicles just straight up not fun to play with

[strong steeple]

Thing is, I wouldn't mind trading half my HP for an engi's life if I didn't know they're just gonna come sprinting at me again in the next 15 seconds. Hypermobility+squad respawning is what pushes into absurdly over-the-top oppressive level.

[mortal jungle]

even if spawning was more restrictive

losing 99% of your HP to a single tandem rocket would still be anything but fun

[summer geode]

would also at best mean you have one time you can survive a tandem in that case

(max healing is 99% in the field til you return to main base)

[strong steeple]

I mean yeah it should probably be toned down a bit to like 80% or sth. So that you can indeed repair to full at least a few more times between engagements

Well not full, but above OHK range again.

[mortal jungle]

nahh

tandem just needs to be reworked or removed completely

dying to 2 rockets is never going to feel good

personally, i think tandem needs to be straight up removed, HEAT should remain the anti vehicle option and lose effectiveness against infantry, and frag should be the anti-infantry option

[strong steeple]

I mean if you leave your ass exposed so badly that two engis can sync their tandems you kinda deserve it. Specially without squad spawning, I'm pretty sure getting flanked would become a lot harder.

[mortal jungle]

it's really not hard to sneak up on a vehicle. their vision is very limited, and turning around takes a long time for them

for infantry it takes less than a second to do a 360 and make sure your surroundings are clear. an APC or tank does not have that kind of luxury

and by the time you can hear someone; they're already in C4 range, and they omae wa shindeiru'd your ass

[strong steeple]

APC yea, it's in a rough state. A good tank spotter can make you near unkillable tho.

[slow willow]

Good tank spotter is

1. Always a premade on outside comms
2. Not unkillable, just harder to kill

[slow willow]

You can get 2 tapped right outside spawn, if players are dedicated enough to do that

Happend to me many times

Now I am scared of roads

[strong steeple]

Oh yeah I def always take the long way around back into the base when I have the tiniest suspicion there might be someone hiding around the entrance lol

[slow willow]

I do it always because backcapping is a must it seems

First point is always orange

And I am not taking my chances

[summer geode]

1.not always

[mortal jungle]

let's be realistic, spotting for a rando is not engaging gameplay

people either go on the 7M turret, or use the spotter seat to spawn in the tank and then get out

you'd be extremely silly to put that much trust in a complete stranger over the internet, whilst being a sitting duck yourself

[strong steeple]

It's definitely rare

But I had one guy jump into my tank the other day and he immediately starting calling targets out with very short but precise directions

We didn't die a single time that match :3

Added him to my friends list right away lol

[summer geode]

Well call be extremely silly lol

But I will admit I do jump out & shoot a guy for XYZ reason once in a while

(AKA may had killed a guy with his own C4 or I jump out to deal with the blood maddened medic who desires a tank kill)

[snow thunder]

Last session I found a pair of russians, who repaired and spotted enemies for me.
Randoms can be good ngl

[fickle rivet]

there's a lot of good guys in the game just have to talk a bit in VC to find them

[snow thunder]

Nah they joinned to me without needing to talk to them

[slow willow]

Well, I barely find anyone to repair, even after asking multiple times

[mortal jungle]

i mean, hardly anyone ever equips the repair tool

everyone runs C4 + RPG or mines + RPG. sometimes trophy + RPG

RPG should be in the first slot exclusively, so engineers are forced to take repair tools, tbh

[hollow kernel]

Most tanks run out of ammo or die before they can actually be repaired

If they're close to death, they're probably already hellbent on getting back to spawn

[slow willow]

Very often you get shredded(but not killed) while still having ammo

Being repaired saves you few minutes of RTB

In a perfect world, you would be RTB only for ammo

[mortal jungle]

i usually don't have issues repairing my tank as long as i kill all nearby enemy gamers

[hollow kernel]

Yea but its also hard to tell how much HP you have left, so often i RTB anyway to be sure

The black smoke on tanks appear at 75%HP and fire starts at 25%

So its pretty hard to know your current HP, especially if the engie isn't using VC

[mortal jungle]

personally i just try to repair all damage i take

the less i've taken, the less time the repairs take

better safe than sorry

[hollow kernel]

Ye

Would be nice if there was another way of telling how much HP you had, like engine smoke at 75%, smoke and sparks ay 50% and fire at 25%

That at least gives you a better idea on whether you can take a few extra rockets or are on the verge of popping like a balloon

[snow thunder]

Maybe you're not kind enough?

[slow willow]

Idk how more kind can I get in a game than saying "please" and "I will be greatfull"

I would make them tea but that impossible

[snow thunder]

Always be honest drew

[slow willow]

I am

[latent sorrel]

Offer them a ride to nearest objective

[normal geyser]

If you're running repairs you might need to run like very low weight just to catch up lol

[slow willow]

I can stop for you in the middle of waki bridge, just pleas, repair

[broken pasture]

give all RPGs self damage already

[tawdry crown]

they do unless they are fired within your feet(though I think its bugged)

[slow willow]

They have self damage, the radious is just small, so you can kill a guy 5m away, without taking any damage

[summer geode]

That be a touch silly

[snow thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-yes-yes-gif-22948122

[tawdry crown]

15 meter safety when?

[ember nebula]

Is it just me or was there nerf recently? In order to even kill/damage someone I have to hit into very narrow radius.

Giving RPG7 longer reload time instead of smaller radius would be better fix tbh.

[mortal jungle]

no

it'd still be annoying as fuck, it'd just be slightly less spammable

HEAT should just not be able to kill infantry unless you directly hit someone with it

[ember nebula]

Game-wise maybe but honestly I fail to find any benefit for heat now. Sure you can kill people behind structures but most of the time I just find people alive behind the wall as if nothing happened. Sandbags and other man-made structures completely absorb the damage.
It might be wrong to bring real world into games but HEAT definitely kills in much bigger radius. There are also fusions between HEAT and FRAG that lessen another ones weakness.

Also there should be 15 meter safety as stated previously.

I'm just kind of hoping RPG7 won't become obsolete when it comes out of early access..

[ember nebula]

M67 grenade 180g explosive
OG-7V (frag) 210g
both 5 to 7m immediate lethal radius
PG-7VL (heat) 730 g
Because of energy focus there is less energy to spread around but thats still 700gram bomb going off, it should be sweeping buildings floors instead of knocking a panel off.

[mortal jungle]

building destruction
killing enemies through walls
destroying vehicles
all of which can be done at range

as busted as the C4 is, at least you have to get close. engineer doesn't even have to do that

playing vehicles feels like shit because of the RPG spam, and even in gamemodes without vehicles, there are plenty of people abusing it against infantry

it's super easy to use and you don't really have to give up anything. repair tool is a joke in most cases

does a tool that let you destroy cover at range, one shots helicopters/humvees, and is a genuine threat to APCs/tanks, need to one shot people without having to hit them directly?

[ember nebula]

what a joke

building destruction with rpg in game? Really you knock off panels, thats destruction?
killing enemies through walls, nonexistant
destroying vehicles, vehicles in this game are behaving more like tiny terminators than real vehicle
if you get killed in vehicle its cause you circle close around enemy, no work with infantry whatsoever
one shot helicopters omg at their usual speed of mach 32 and u cant do that anyway
u are ridiculous, helicopter shouldnt survive hit from rpg...
vehicles being played like clown cars should be punished, getting close to infantry is the only danger they face
c4 ...if you manage to get that close without getting shot in the first place, but thats somehow not fair then
do you want different choices or game where everyone runs around with assault rifles

[mortal jungle]

the only joke here is you. game balance is way more important than realism

[ember nebula]

what did u balance genius?

[ember nebula]

U dont care neither about balance nor about being somewhat close to real world weapons.
Having so many different models in game is completely pointless if they are not at all related to their actual performance.
I would think thats what appeals to most people playing, not the experience of real life guns with wild rng stats.
The explosive content i posted earlier and your complete lack of interest makes this debate over.

[tawdry crown]

HEAT does infact not do that

[ember nebula]

doesn't do what?

[tawdry crown]

HEAT has tiny as hell explosive radius IRL. Less than a meter.

[ember nebula]

Are you baiting me to get salty? If you want to prove it then be my guest.

[tawdry crown]

my man do you not know what HEAT is or does?

[ember nebula]

just get to the point man and dont be cringe

[tawdry crown]

its meant to penetrate armor, its explosive radius is nill unless you are behind the thing it hits lol.

HEAT does not equal HE despite the name.

[ember nebula]

source is trust me bro?

[tawdry crown]

Mf

that is how HEAT fucking works

if heat was also an explosive like you think, there wouldnt be a need for HE, or thermo, or frag.

[ember nebula]

yeah you can hold it in hand no problem, stop being obtuse and show me why would anyone take u seriosly

do you want lecture on basic physics?

[tawdry crown]

hold it in hand no problem? the fuck you on about?

[ember nebula]

relax big boy that was sarcasm and please go find something that proves you like i asked

reminder

its about pg 7 vl warhead and its anti personell effect

[tawdry crown]

"It might be wrong to bring real world into games but HEAT definitely kills in much bigger radius."

[ember nebula]

...and

so much suspense

[tawdry crown]

buddy you simply do not know how HEAT works.

[ember nebula]

basic phyiscs

reaction has opposite reaction remember

as much energy as goes into pemnetrating jet goes other way, meaning other directions

its just spread out

[tawdry crown]

its a shaped charge you moron.

it is designed to avoid specifically that

[ember nebula]

i think we have some misunderstanding here and i dont want to be unnecesarily rude

i suggest you can watch some videos of shaped charges so you can understand its not just flying jet in one direction but actual explosion using lensing effect

[tawdry crown]

The shaped charge, from the RPG-7 specifically I mean, concentrates the majority of its force through its target. its fragmentation and explosive force other than the cone forwards is minimal to the point that there are numerous reports or RPGs hitting walls within feet of infantry and nothing more than tinitus and small cuts were had. the RPG-7 HEAT round also does not make large wholes in structures.

[ember nebula]

juts give me the direct source

if i were to poke holes into what you wrote, we dont know what rpg warhead you mean and i guess nobody takes notice if its shot at him.
It cant concentrate majority of its force forward cause thats not how physics works and size of holes is not telling of how much shrapnel gets shot from the wall.

[tawdry crown]

HEAT.

there is only one HEAT shell for the RPG7.

[ember nebula]

thats whre u are blatantly wrong

u can go check it yourself

i hope

[tawdry crown]

and yes, while a size of a hole does not mean little fragmentation, this was a common weapon used and there are dozens of reports of near misses of RPGs with minimal or no injuries besides some hurt ears.

[ember nebula]

i asked you several times

show me where did you get this from

[tawdry crown]

now are you trying to bring in the older soviet era HEAT rounds or what?

those havent been used by basically anyone for over 40 years

[ember nebula]

your reports...

[tawdry crown]

you can find them man, afghan especially.

[ember nebula]

excuse me?

you quote some bs and i should go dig for it?

[tawdry crown]

yeah simple enough

your not going through a fucking encyclopedia.

new invention, called a search engine.

[ember nebula]

you have no shame, childish

if you have nothing to say then dont

[tawdry crown]

as for the HEAT rounds. the 93mm is the only still commonly used shell.

not my fault you apparently cannot use a search engine, with clearly defined search parameters.

[ember nebula]

its not my job to advocate for your opinion

[tawdry crown]

not an opinion if its fact

[ember nebula]

yeah buddy keep talking to yourself

[tawdry crown]

yeah I expected that response. you have no shame, childish.

[mortal jungle]

lots of arguing over something that literally doesn't matter

like seriously, realism means nothing. this is a game where you can run faster than usain bolt with a rifle and a backpack full of mines and grenades. no one cares whether the RPG behaves exactly the way it does irl

what matters is the game balance

[tawdry crown]

yeah, we both kinda lost the plot there. Still think the RPG needs to keep the current blast radius, for whatever caused it. its less just "hit in general direction, get kills" and more you actually direct impacted the guy.

it feels alost better to play against, since if i'm not hit directly i can run away now instead of just being dead.

[mortal jungle]

was it actually nerfed at all? there's nothing about it in the patchnotes

[tawdry crown]

either shadow nerf or a bug, no clue hence my "whatever caused it"

I just think it needs to stay in

RPGs actually have to hit targets now, so I think its actually working well.

[mortal jungle]

ive not played recently since there has kinda been a content drought, but that does sound really good. RPG being an AoE noobtube, on top of being really strong against vehicles, was really damn annoying

[tawdry crown]

agreed. now if you die you were either low health or the round hit your feet. still might be a bit frustrating if it happens alot but its not because the round itself is just kill within 10 meters

[summer geode]

err Shaped charge?

Most of the force gets focused forward

[summer geode]

that is nice

[ember nebula]

Newton's third law is: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

[tawdry crown]

my man just does not understand that does not translate to lethality.

[ember nebula]

thats rich coming from you

[tawdry crown]

sure man, I'm sorry a search engine was too hard for you to use.

[ember nebula]

should i also do your homework and tuck you in bed

[summer geode]

Action hits the casing & than reflects back forward with a molten thing of coppergenerally

[mortal jungle]

what's a homewotk?

[tawdry crown]

He's just trying to sound a lot smarter than he is.

He's acting like the people who designed how HEAT (shaped charge) works were idiots and didn't take into account how to not lose the excess force around the charge.

[ember nebula]

You must be trolling people, you cant be that stupid

sorry thats for that genius not you hg

[ember nebula]

I wonder how much more are u willing to go to salvage your broken ego

[tawdry crown]

you really think you have gotten to me at all? honestly its like arguing with my younger cousins lol, someone simply not knowing a subject but tries to interject the one thing they know to validate their argument.

I wonder how worked up you are getting at this then

[ember nebula]

you never say anything of substance, i feel sorry for your cousin

[tawdry crown]

sure man, you really are getting worked up over a discord thread. everything alright at home?

[ember nebula]

yeah i have my coffe and a clown to entertain me

[hollow kernel]

what are you guys waffling about

[ember nebula]

petty stuff but i really dislike this guy for his previous dishonest behaviour

[tawdry crown]

He believes that HEAT has a big explosive radius and is lethal in that radius.

"dishonest behavior"

I just told him to look something up on google lol

[ember nebula]

you will notice this guy leaves out details all the time, always vague

[tawdry crown]

that is literally what set you off but ok, keep lying.

[ember nebula]

if people want to see they can look themselves even without you

everything is upthere

[hollow kernel]

sometimes, you gotta throw some realism out the window to make a game fun, all im sayin

[ember nebula]

i dont care about any discussions with guys like him

[tawdry crown]

its fun as is thanks to the shadow nerf/bug, makes it so that you have to hit the player model to kill

[ember nebula]

if rpg strong weak i dont care

[tawdry crown]

the whole thing started because he was trying to say HEAT had a big explosive radius irl

[tawdry crown]

then why the fuck are you in the feedback thread?

[ember nebula]

there werent even people who would care in the first place

[tawdry crown]

my man, this is a feedback thread for a game

why the hell you here if you don't care?

go find a physics server or something if that's more your speed

[hollow kernel]

well, it technically has, since its using explosives to send out the copper stream, but i gotta say its a bit excessive in this game. if not the damage radius, the availability of them is a bit out there

[tawdry crown]

its more so availability now.

I think they said there was a bug with the terrain/structures now, so the blast radius is more like 2-3 meters

and kill is 1-2

[ember nebula]

why did you bother even arguing with me if you dont care about real world effects? You are fraud

[tawdry crown]

so it works out that now if you die its more because they hit you and not hit your general location

[tawdry crown]

why do you bother to be in a game feedback channel if you don't care about the game?

[ember nebula]

please elaborate

your mom is fat argument olympics

[tawdry crown]

the blast radius is more akin to the old german AT grenades, lots of explosive force, not so much shrapnel/fragmentation. while it is there and will ring your bell, you can survive it with minimal injuries on foot, though getting unluck irl is also a thing

[ember nebula]

dont you have like german guns server you can pester, isnt this feedback channel?

[hollow kernel]

my take is, if they're gonna keep RPGs as they are, they should change other aspects of it. like run penalties, reload time, ammo count etc

basically make people think a little bit more before yeeting rockets

[tawdry crown]

running 24% slower might be a good choice for the launchers, maybe limit heat to 3 rockets at max, but buff light gadgets(kinda like the tool belt over normal belt)?

[hollow kernel]

could be an idea

[tawdry crown]

I say 3 because it takes 5 HEAT to a not critical place to kill a tank

[hollow kernel]

im no game dev, so im just throwing out concepts rn

[wheat musk]

Please relax with the arguing guys, try to keep discussions civil.

[normal geyser]

Where are you in the other threads 😭

[dim hornet]

Im gonna hop on in here, I use PG07 Heat as my primary, always have, I can tell you from experience that the explosive range on these is so minute that kills are more luck than skill. Unless you hit directly at a targets feet, 9/10 times they survive with no damage. Ontop of this, it seems rockets do not hit player hitboxes, or if they do, its a rare occurance. Recently they even made a change so that instead of shooting the rocket at your feet, you throw a grenade, this is almost certainly a death sentence and unlikely to kill the enemy.

[tawdry crown]

great HEAT is now finally working as intended.

also the hell you mean it "throws a grenade" you mean the self-destruct?

[ember nebula]

this guy is on it again...

[tawdry crown]

its not supposed to do damage if you shoot it at your feet

[ember nebula]

you are truly stubborn guy

[tawdry crown]

oh hey its the idiot that doesn't know how the RPG-7 works

welcome back

[ember nebula]

I explained it over and over

You just made some trust-me-bro arguments

[tawdry crown]

you refused to use a search engine, not my fault bud

[ember nebula]

you know when you argue with someone you should back it up by yourself

[tawdry crown]

if we were in debate club, sure

we ain't. this is the internet, you got a search engine lol

[ember nebula]

why didn't you search up on things I asked you to then

genius

[tawdry crown]

Anyway, you kept talking about the blast radius of the explosion, which is largely not going to be lethal unless you are really lucky and/or infront of it, which is the whole fucking point

like, if you wanted a suppresion radius, sure why not

[ember nebula]

he is back at it...

Crawl back please, You are not worth it for me to repeat myself

[tawdry crown]

I mean go ahead and leave, you already said you do not care about the game or game balance

[ember nebula]

I would like it much more if ignorant people like you left this section

dense genius

[tawdry crown]

sure man, keep larping as Newton trying to sound smart.

once again, if you do not care about the game, or game balance, go somewhere else

[ember nebula]

nobody is larping. If stating how basic physics work is larping for you then please study more

[tawdry crown]

"basic physics" mf I'm talking a lethal radius of a weapon not "there's a blast wave going in all directions"

it's like looking at an m67 and saying its lethal blast radius is 30 meters because theres a blast wave that goes out that far

[ember nebula]

There is plenty data on how HEAT works. Again just like you said, simple utilization of search engine.

Go ahead back me up.

Dig for it.

[tawdry crown]

can you understand what a Lethal radius is?

[ember nebula]

Yes and I think it's you who fails to understand it.

[tawdry crown]

you do realise there is many different kinds of heat

many different forms of shaped charges within that

and that the RPG-7s heat behaves a very specific way?

if you want to keep pulling in outliers, because real life has those, you gonna be here a long while

[ember nebula]

You make me go insane tbh. We already had this conversation. We are talking about same thing here this whole time...

[tawdry crown]

you are talking about a blast radius of force

which does not equal to a lethal blast radius as defined by the military/manufacturer.

[ember nebula]

l e t h a l radius

Alright, I had one rodeo last time. We can do this another time.

[junior kayak]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaped_charge#Munroe_effect

funny

[mortal jungle]

good

noob tube abusers btfo

[slow willow]

Can you explain it to me?

[hollow kernel]

RPGs use shaped charges that focus the majority of the damage in a narrow beam of molten copper, mainly for getting through tank armor and such. while they do use a normal explosive charge to actually send the beam out, i dont know how powerful it is, like if it can actually kill a packed group of people by just landing near their feet

[tawdry crown]

It can’t it would be more akin to a large flash bang. Now if you your bells gonna be rung, but unless you get unlucky you will survive it.(for the record this is why flashbangs are not used nearly as much as people think because they can and have killed people in closed environments)

[summer geode]

in fairiness, Flashbangs do make the audioable sound of a jet engine right beside you last I checked

[tawdry crown]

Well I mean more like it wont kill you unless you are way too close and unlucky, but its still an explosive based on the older offensive grenades

[slow willow]

I am totally aware of that. I wanted that guy to explain to check if he himself understands that. But thanks anyways.

[dim hornet]

You can call it abuse all you want but the travel time, drop, and limited ammunition is compensation enough

[mortal jungle]

travel time lmfao

guess what, every gun has travel time

and it has literally instant TTK

limited ammunition doesn't really matter either because of how fast respawning is, and even if you don't die, you can just refill it with a resup

imagine if recon players complained that they can't just pull out their sniper rifle and shoot the ground next to someone to instantly kill them

[snow thunder]

Does the RPG and an M200 have the same projectile/rocket ballastic stats?

[tawdry crown]

does it matter? no. travel time and drop is not a detriment to the rpg in the slightest as long as you can aim even a little. and limited ammunition means nothing with squad spawn

[snow thunder]

Im not the one who compared and crossbred an RPG with an SR.

RPG heat has a slow and balanced drop and travel time.
Your friend made an example that the amount of calculations needed to shoot an RPG on distance is same as using an SR like an M200 which is just wrong.

[mortal jungle]

i like how you instantly cherrypicked the M200, the easiest to use sniper rifle in the game by far

the point still stands. RPGs should not be able to kill with the blast radius. learn to aim

[junior kayak]

rpgs need back blast fr

[unique crow]

It's also the one that kills people the most. Imo the other snipers need a slight buff and the M200 needs a "slight" nerf.

[strong steeple]

I wouldn't mind seeing it get a damage buff but the projectile speed is just absurd

So basically just give it a proper "slow hard hitting cannon" identity instead of "obviously superior choice" it currently is

[hollow kernel]

Or at the very least have it take a moment to accelletare to top speed

A more obvious trail that stays a few seconds after would also do a lot of help in helping people find who fired it

Currently its almost harder to spot than a bullet, since it doesn't glow, nor does it have a muzzle flash

[strong steeple]

Hmm it would have to be a M200 only thing somehow since it would otherwise make other snipers even more useless because they're shorter range and trails would make it easier to spot the shooter

[hollow kernel]

I mean the m200 is already so powerful its downright unrealistic. The bullet speed in game is much faster than the other snipers, and almost twice as fast as the m200's bullet goes irl

All in all, that gun is so powerful because its basically a railgun with how fast the bullet is

but yeah, at least adding some glow to the RPG's projectile would help a lot

[strong steeple]

Yes, although to be fair, that also makes it the only sniper rifle that actually feels usable at long ranges. The problem is that players move so fast that realistic projectile speeds would make long range engagements pointless.

[hollow kernel]

yeah, tho i personally find snipers pretty reasonable in their current state, hell even DMRs like the m110 feel a bit too powerful when i first tried it

[strong steeple]

Well, I only ever use the M200 and it does feel useful :P not sure if I would say the same about the rest. What I don't really like is scope glint though. I'm perfectly fine using med scopes out to 1200m and it really isn't hard to spot targets below those distances so I feel like it's just a silly mechanic that ends up putting these unrealistic lighthouses all over the map.

[hollow kernel]

i mean beyond 1200m, it should be hard to hit targets. that kinda distance cant be countered, let alone spotted by enemies if you're using med scopes

[strong steeple]

I agree, that's my point, it's already hard to hit targets at those distances. A long scope isn't really going to help your bullet go faster or predict the enemy movements better. All it does is make this huge light show so med scopes can just click on you and get easy kills. Which is what I often do. On the other hand, in ranges below 1000m, where med scopes are perfectly usable, long scopes would just be a comfort feature to see things better but the glint makes them unusable there. So they're just a silly noobtrap in the end.

I wouldn't even mind having people use long scopes in <800m because at that point they're just losing peripheral vision

[primal stag]

I uh
Did I read correctly that we're comparing the HEAT RPG to the M200 ?

[tawdry crown]

because apperently they are the same because the rpg has a scope and is pretty accurate, and its hard to tell where they came from at a distance

[primal stag]

That's quite the take

[strong steeple]

They are comparable in the sense that the M200 is the best long range sniper and RPG is probably the best short range one

[primal stag]

That's something I definitely wasn't expecting to read today. I applaud your confidence

[unique crow]

RPG is the best shotgun

[strong steeple]

Second best, RPG is king of versatility

C4 is the best shotgun imo

Don't even need line of sight to oneshot people

[bronze hedge]

I've seen people say that HEAT rounds should remain high damage, but in a smaller radius, which I agree with. Something I'd like to toss in for consideration is that they should deal damage in a large cone in front of the impact point, representing the shaped charge nature of HEAT rounds. This would let them excel at killing people behind walls, if you wanted to keep using them for cracking open fortified buildings, while frag rounds would be good at killing blobs of people.

[fickle rivet]

I dont think there should be a shape form since its HEAT and supposed to be for vehicles, just direct hit kill only, since HEAT is pretty fast, low drop and you,ve 7 of them that are for now almost as efficient as grenade to kill infantry

[unique crow]

Idea:
Orange: trajectory
Red: 1hk zone
Yellow: 2hk zone

[fossil whale]

I think it's good in it's current state. Hit reg can be a bit funky sometimes against infantry but overall it's performance is satisfying.

[junior kayak]

it's too satisfying, it shouldn't be as good as it is against infantry rn
frag should do that that don't get me started on the bs ass shotgunning 💀

[slow willow]

It should

Frag should be better than HEAT, like two times

Just like tandem is

HEAT just can't be shotgun up to 20m, but a proper RPG. A gadget not a primary

[hollow kernel]

frag should be how heat is right now, maybe with a big larger radius

and heat should be as effective against infantry is frag currently is

[slow willow]

That's not very frag

That basically castration of frag

[hollow kernel]

trust me, heat is much better against infantry

it may not have the same blast radius, but the kill radius is much better than frag

[slow willow]

It's ONLY role it to kill people, you can't give it measily 3m radious

[slow willow]

Yes, but frag should be better than current heat, just like tandem is

[hollow kernel]

im not saying frag should delete vehicles as well

[slow willow]

Me to

Like, from where did you take that assumption out?

All I am saying that if Tandem is more than 2x better than HEAT, then Frag should also be 2x times better than HEAT, but at it respective thing

[hollow kernel]

i haven't been killed by tandems nearly enough to make a compraison there

[broken pasture]

RPG's shouldnt be able to be fired from helicopters. WIsh they'd add backblast that prevents it.
With it said that attack helicopters wont be added, doing the next best thing feels like exploiting.

its something thats too easy to do and too hard to counter, way unbalanced

[tawdry crown]

to much able to troll with backblast, just black list offensive gadgets.

[hollow kernel]

one thing would be to make the rocket keep the chopper's momentum, that way you at least need some brain usage to be good at using RPGs from choppers

[broken pasture]

id be all down for that. actually leading shots instead of point & click for free kills from a chopper

[fossil whale]

I am shocked. You guys don't know how complicated it is to fire rockets from the helicopter and actually hit something. Low ping is required aswell as aiming against a moving target from a moving helicopter, which by the way does carry momentum. It is expecially complex the Ka60.

[slow willow]

Cap, done this a number of times, its not hard, or complicated

Basic ability to lead is enough, and then you can clap vehicles and infantry alike

[fossil whale]

I play with Ratkunt who is nearing top 10 in vehicles destroyed - a significant portion from the helicopter both F11 and F10. I know what I'm talking about

[slow willow]

Idk who's that, doesn't rings a bell

You may play even with Lebender or idk , but you are wrong saying that it's hard, it's not hard

Piloting is hard-ish, shooting alone is very easy

Given your elevation advantage, and good velocity of HEAT, its probably as easy as fron the ground, assuming your pilot doesn't have adhd

[hollow kernel]

Im in Norway and i play on US servers often to avoid the sweatier games in EU, and i can rather easily RPG snipe from choppers it really isn't that hard

Especually since its a rocket and not a sniper, so you still have room for error if you hit the ground

So unless you're on the moon, ping won't do that much

[fossil whale]

If your ping is beyond 120~ your rpg shots won't hitreg from the chopper against armor vehicles/infantry. They likely just hit the inside of the helicopter when visually you can see them fly out.

[hollow kernel]

I guess that could be a win for keeping momentum as well, since its less likely to hit the side of the chopper

[fossil whale]

Not sure what you mean but the pilot has to fly super slow for them to connect and register a hit (200 ping in american servers for me)

[tawdry crown]

as long as you know how to compensate for lead that doesn't matter

[hollow kernel]

No but it makes it of a cakewalk to farm people from the air

[slow willow]

Your latency isn't a valid argument honestly. Not only it's on your end, it also varies between person to person. If you find X thing limited by your ping then, bad for you, i guess

Balancing game around latency issues of 10k players would be a incredibly stupid endeavour.

[fossil whale]

Not arguing. My experinece ingame overrides your lame walls of text.

[slow willow]

LMAO

The ego here

[alpine sand]

My take on Heat:

• easy to use, fast, low drop at range
• okay against heavy armor
• great against light armor
• great against walls
• great against infanty
• great against air

In conclusion:

• unbalanced. All rounder, which great or okay at all tasks. Shouldn't be that great against infantry and walls or infantry and heavy armor

[slow willow]

Imagine saying that HEAT is unbalanced and Tandem is perfectly balanced lol

Anyways, the only major problem community has to HEAT is using it as a shoot gun in close range

[alpine sand]

All rounder which have no downsides is not OP, ok

[slow willow]

Tho this alone seems to be not unanimously agrred on

[slow willow]

It has dowsides, it's not the best at anything

Makes you vulnerable while using

It needs more of them, but I would never go as far as calling it 'OP'

It doesn't invalidates a whole gameplay loop, by it sheer existence

It's less obnoxious than C4, and harder to use

[slow willow]

Oh, and don't forget 5m cruth zone against vehicles

Because why not

[stone sleet]

I’m with the guy who has ‘Experinece’ on this one

[slow willow]

Then you are with both of us? The only diference is that I don't need to proclaim that to everyone, to form any cohesive responses to a argument aka "wall of text"

[broken pasture]

tracking is not difficult.

[tawdry crown]

with 100% accuracy, just center your screen, and as long as you know lead/negative lead, no matter how much it bounces it will hit what you aim at without fail.

[slow willow]

Slazenger tries to make it seem like hardest game play loop, when I can take my recon main friend and as a terrible pilot, get him 3 jeeps, 1 IFV, and dozen guys killed in 15 minutes, while not dying

At least I didn't dies, he jumped of by accident lol

That's very much anecdotal argument, but I am fairly sure that majority will share that expireence

[dim wasp]

Why haven't Heat Explosive RPG's been nerfed yet?
You butcher snipers & general gunplay with bullet trails. But leave Heat Explosive RPG spam alone ...?
Tell me you noobtubed in MW2 without telling me you noobtubed in MW2

[tawdry crown]

https://youtu.be/ufEviev5iMM?si=UBSLKUzVpzZmA2pU

[slow willow]

Yeah, it decimates on direct hits for sure

But the fragmentation effect is very limited

Soo, nerf HEAT rpg explosive and kill radious

[tawdry crown]

replace frag with HE instead, have it be the wall clearer, allowing HEAT to have a smaller radius of effective damage. its also heavy(as shown) so it should have the drop of the tandem, but a bigger blast radius than we have now for it so it cant be used in CQC without killing yourself too. maybe incorporate the safety features that means no explosion too close (maybe also have no armor be a thing that keeps it from exploding, also shown in video, to where it's just blunt force but massive damage)

[tawdry crown]

I mean this was HE, not HEAT at all.

[slow willow]

Right

My bad

I didn't see the blunt tip, not tapered one

[tawdry crown]

though if it does replace Frag, or a new RPG, HEAT could be relegated to AT only

[devout ravine]

as it should be honestly

ive said it before, frag needs a larger kill radius, heat radius shrinks, realatively balanced and nieches filled

[brazen bramble]

Heat is in a good state IMO. It is deadly, but the lethal radius is small. Fragmentation RPGs need to have their infantry damage and blast radius increased to make up for the fact that they are ineffective against vehicles and buildings.

[slow willow]

It has ~ 3 m one shot kill radious iirc

Not really small

[brazen bramble]

It does not feel like a 3m radius when I use it.

[slow willow]

It's not 3m exactly, but somewhere between 2.5 and 3

[tawdry crown]

I believe the one hit kill radius is 1.5-2 as of recently

[slow willow]

I am sure it's above 2

[tawdry crown]

for ohk? not likely.

[slow willow]

I can bet money it's around 2.5m radious for ohk

[summer geode]

suppose a simple way to figure out is test

get 4 guys roughly & use the range finder to mark the distances

[devout ravine]

We could test it with the shields glass too

[brazen bramble]

Just for reference, how tall are the BB character models and hurtboxes?

[stone sleet]

🟦

^ that big

[slow willow]

Can we get splash radious against vehicles remowed? Please and thank you.

[devout ravine]

i would reckon 2 meters but the scaling seems off sometimes

[fossil meteor]

not sure if this has come up here, but can we get a slight increase to the damage radius of heat rounds. I constantly see enemies not getting damaged when a round explodes right next to them.

like .25 meters for the rpgg

[tawdry crown]

No. we already had it larger. it doesn't need to go back.

[fossil meteor]

k just like full 5 meter radius then

[tawdry crown]

"We don't want it larger". Proceeds to make his statement to be launch day stupidity. Of course.

[mortal jungle]

i have to AIM? in a first person shooter?

scandalous

[stone sleet]

Neebs buff

[mortal jungle]

lmao no

fuck off

[ruby frigate]

i mean it would be a little too overpowered but i have many times seen it do this, where it explodes right next to them at their feet and they take no damage

[tawdry crown]

they do take damage

usually below 10hp

[unique crow]

Eh, I can still get multi-kills occasionally and plenty of single kills firing from a helicopter with HEAT. I'd say that HEAT is balanced as it is currently.

[cobalt compass]

Just waiting for the day we get rpg skins 😭

[echo cobalt]

I'm with @cobalt compass, I have about 2000 kills on the RPG, more than all of my primary's and secondary's kills in the game combined, but I would really love a hot skin on that RPG ❤️ People think I'm trolling but I legitimately love blowing through buildings and instantaneously removing people from existence

https://tenor.com/view/erpeg-na-plerach-fail-rpg-pierogiaio-epic-fail-gif-17422099