RPG7 / PG07 Frag - Feedback

[edgy epoch]

Please keep it on topic, and civil, we want serious feedback

• No gifs
• No 'skill issue'

[drifting lark]

HEAT is already very effective against infantry. Having any option that's deadlier than that is completely unnecessary.

Alternative approaches like lower dmg with larger AoE will never be able to match effectiveness of OHK options due to the abundance of infinite healing. In fact, it will just make every non-medic class even worse by comparison.

[cunning cove]

As of right now there is no reason to use frag, when HEAT will do it's job, And do it way better aswell.pls save frag rpg

[oak solar]

maybe frag can have a larger damage radius against building walls? That way it can kinda be a sidegrade, where you give up anti tank and ani infantry to take out cover better

[winter ore]

Statistically an inferior HEAT round: Lower carry count, no one-shot capability, no vehicle damage, no structural damage.

Maybe give it one-shot capability (it is after all the dedicated anti-infantry option) and increase the one-shot radius compared to HEAT which will have a smaller one-shot radius, and swap the carry count with HEAT (Currently 6 HEATs/4 frags with heavy bag, swap to 4 HEATs/6 frags). Overall explosion radius remains the same for both launchers (though I'm down for either giving frag a larger overall radius or nerfing HEAT's overall radius)

I'm sure someone else can come up with a more elegant solution but giving fragmentations one-shot capabilities is a baseline. If the all-purpose round can one-shot, why not the dedicated anti-infantry one?

[crimson quarry]

I think it would be nice to differenciate heat and frag. As of now HEAT is doing building destroying and one shot. I think Heat should not be one shot and frag should no destroy building very well (maybe requires two shots?). So people would have to choose and we would not get people running 6 free kills ammo in their engi backpack. "Oh a wall with people being cover? don't mind me!"

[drifting lark]

Yes. Another point is that the instakill afforded by HEAT makes it so even trying to get out of a vehicle when you spot an engi might not save you since you can just get caught in the splash.

I would be perfectly fine with keeping the OHK on direct hits and the damage from HEAT splash should be still significant (not like the meme frag is now), but not anymore OHK.

[soft lotus]

Finally a thread to address this abomination

Frag round should be a room clearer tbh, with slightly larger explosive radius (1.75x or 1.5x) than frag grenade and higher damage

[delicate light]

If it was me I would just remove Tandems.

HEAT would have small splash radius but be able to destroy walls still.

Frag would have its splash radius slightly increased, damage boost to kill except on the outer area of the splash radius, not do building damage, not do vehicle damage UNLESS they're an "open vehicle" like the quad or humvee

[drifting lark]

A bit of rebalancing would be in order, as Blackhawks right now can tank wayyy too many RPGs. But this is largely a change I would be fine with tbh. Either smaller HEAT radius or keep as is but reduce damage so indirect hits are never lethal to infantry.

[delicate light]

Blackhawk is poorly balanced, yeah. It'll tank a massive amount of damage but if you tap it in the rotor with something like an APC it just immediately falls. I suggested the BH should get an HP nerf while losing its tail rotor weakness

since that's too feast or famine as a design choice to enjoy

[primal nimbus]

Give it the splash OHK range of current HEAT and then make the HEAT only kill infantry on direct hit. There is no choice currently and its silly.

[real aurora]

buff frag vs infantry, nerf HEAT vs infantry

[quasi gull]

I used frag for 2 seconds

gotta admit, pretty bad

[lone spear]

HEAT needs to have its actual blast radius of less than a meter, its technically smaller but HEAT needs some utility, since its a shaped charge nearly everything goes forward.

This allows Frag to get the current HEAT explosive radius and player damage, making it quite effective at killing enemies, just minus the ability to hurt armor.

Tandem needs to be nerfed to HEAT level damage, but does an equal percentage to Heavy armor, because that's what its supposed to be doing anyway.

[civic garnet]

currently Fragmentation is completely overshadowed by HEAT due to heat's ability to consisently OHK in a good radius compared to the frag's unrealibality mixed with reduced target selection and so on

[charred lynx]

Make the frag not damage walls very much but wide area of damage to infantry + one shot , make heat destroy buildings well and small area of damage to infantry but still one shot of almost direct hit + it can one shot all humvees quad bikes and nightbirds , make tandem have a better velocity for 150 metres but drops a lot after 150 max 250 and that one shots btrs from behind + pls give it irons it just makes sense

Maybe also make you only get 4 rockets with heavy backpack for fragmentation as we don’t want too much spam

[prisma lion]

This thing sucks balls. I can think of some ways to buff Frag RPG though.

[lone spear]

idea 1 is literally the thermobaric RPG rocket.

Idea 2 is what it is right now + expanded blast radius.

[silent mauve]

Wasn’t the frag rpg super OP in earlier versions of the game?

[prisma lion]

Got rid of the ideas way too much text imo

Brainstorming buffs is hard af this thing is weird.

Having an RPG with even better infantry killing potential sounds so annoying, maybe we can rework it into something else.

[cloud ether]

if vic system got revamped to have systems like Squad we wouldn't have this issue in all honesty

[prisma lion]

Only think good rework idea I got is giving Frag higher direct hit damage than HEAT and Godtier velocity at the cost of a super small blast radius.

Could be a precise alternative to HEAT for dealing with helis.

[cloud ether]

then that's not a frag lmao, u basically made a railgun

[lone spear]

swap HEAT explosive radius and damage, give to FRAG
Make HEAT have very small blast radius, 1 meter to 2, keep damage.

instant better RPG differences.
I already talked about Thermo alot, no need for me to restart that in this thread.

[prisma lion]

I really like this.

[crimson garnet]

Fragmentation rpg rounds can not reliably kill infantry compared to HEAT.

[cloud ether]

I'm pretty sure I have no kills with my frag rpg

[lone spear]

this has been noted by many already.

[cloud ether]

Yeah just gotta build up the list you know

[spark whale]

In its current state lacks any reasonable use cases. Increase splash damage radius so that it can be used for indirect fire, increase carry count and/or reload speed. Otherwise it will remain unutilized.

[frank notch]

Return it to it's former glory pls

[cloud ether]

WHAT THE FUCK

😭

[civic garnet]

that is a lot o text

[cunning cove]

It used to be good

I remember those Golden times

[quasi gull]

Please make confetti shoot out of the explosion. Thanks

[misty maple]

I agree with what a lot of people are saying frag is practically useless because HEAT does FRAG's job better then FRAG the OG-7V which is the rocket which the FRAG shoots has a kill radius of 7 meters I don't know what the kill radius on the FRAG in game is but it feels like it's less than 7 meters in fact I think the kill radius on the frag and impact grenades are larger than the FRAG rocket so I agree the rocket's kill radius needs to be larger but I also think that an increase kill radius might promote spamming so what I think needs to happen is that damage radius needs to be heavily buffed as what ideally the rocket should do and be used for is dislodging a bunch of grouped up opponents and for this hypothetical we will set the total damage radius to 20 meters anyone out side the kill radius is injured if your within 8 to 10 meters you are heavily injured and get inflicted with bleeding at 11 to 15 meter you're moderately injured and have a chance to be inflected with bleeding and at a distance of 16 to 20 meters you're lightly injured I'm not saying to buff the damage radius to 20 meters I'm just giving an idea of how I think a buff for the FRAG rocket should work.

[lone spear]

thats just thermobaric at that point I think

[lone spear]

can OG-7 also have the no thrust like this variant is supposed to?

[charred lynx]

I think this is a very simple fix and there’s already been loads of great suggestions nobody had a problem with . We just have to wait for oki to have time to fix it

[frank notch]

Good old namak

[proven fable]

Idea: make the frag do low damage(similar to current) but increase ammo capacity by 1 and AoE by a lot

[soft lotus]

then you have just more rockets that dont do shit, a waste of space

if frag rounds dont kill on hit, then it should be either

1. Removed entirely
2. Made absolutely lethal

[proven fable]

AoE so that they can hit a ton of people at once

[civic garnet]

kinda

Frags I could see (if they had a far larger AOE and dealt a decent bit but wasn't ouright lethal) being used on waki bridge & such to weaken & kill weakened people

[lone spear]

Frag should equal a shortrange shot that has a kill radius of up to 25 meters. but balance, so just make frag do what HEAT currently does, but keep the no damage to walls. it also doesn't have a rocket, so it should be relatively short ranged.

[civic garnet]

to clarify the frag you mean is the grenade frag or the RPG frag?

[lone spear]

.....what feed are we in man?

[civic garnet]

I was making sure is all

[royal arrow]

I think the Frag RPG could be distinguished from the regular RPG with a faster shot (less payload -> flys faster). I would also suggest an increase to damage and/or splash to the Frag RPG to get it closer to the regular RPG. The regular RPG fells like it's in a solid place the frag RPG feels like it doesn't do anythign..

[lone spear]

The HEAT rpg needs to be nerfed in its AOE. HEAT pierces, the explosion is secondary and miniscule. the FRAG needs to be buffed to what the HEAT RPG does currently. FRAG is also not a rocket.

[buoyant perch]

frag rpg needs to have explosion radius like frag grenades or slightly bigger than grenades and also have 1 shot capability, maybe 2 frags to take down walls instead of 1 like heat, or make the radius quite a lot bigger than frag grenades so even if you can't take down cover whatsoever if you get a rocket into the ceiling above a player it will still kill them

[proven fable]

Maybe not kill with a ceiling hit

[buoyant perch]

but then it's useless still, it needs 1 shot capability otherwise you'll just use c4 or an actual grenade

[proven fable]

But if the 1 hit kill AoE is that big then it will be overpowered

[buoyant perch]

give people less frag rockets then, maybe only 3, people use the heat in a similar way currently, the frag rocket would just be slightly more forgiving, and not be able to take down cover, so basically worse

[proven fable]

Have you seen vids of what frag used to be like?
There's a reason it got nerfed into the ground.

[buoyant perch]

no actually I showed up like 2 months after release

make it do damage like the btr can do to walls, like it can only take out a brick instead of breaching a huge hole

[proven fable]

That's fine, deleting 7 enemies in a single shot isn't

[buoyant perch]

I'm saying wall damage, still the kill radius needs to be bigger than the current heat

if only slightly

maybe 2x or 1.5x

[proven fable]

That makes sense

But the 2 hit ko radius should be big

[buoyant perch]

yea, radius could be significantly increased but kill radius could be like heat size, so it might only do 50 to people on the outskirt,

[proven fable]

Also I feel like making it have an increased chance to cause bleed would be interesting

[quasi gull]

Make boom more

Frag do nothing

I eat frag for lunch

[charred lynx]

I think it should be a very big aoe where it does loads of damage but only a kill in a small aoe

[drifting lark]

C4 needs to be nerfed anyway. And you can't use a grenade to hit someone 100m away.

[drifting lark]

Wouldn't be possible anymore with the 490 damage limit to explosions anyway

But yeah, giving it HEAT OHK size already feels like it would make it usable and with wider sub-lethal range would be a totally viable option.

[compact spade]

increase frag radius somewhat
have frag release a large fan of (ricochet?) projectiles that have an extremely high probability of causing bleed

[buoyant perch]

but you can though with heat and tandem already, you could just make frag slightly more forgiving, or give less rockets and make it hit like a truck

[civic garnet]

I am just thinking of Warframe's Kohm before they changed it to hitscan

[compact spade]

yeah I dont know what that is
I figured bleeds are the closest thing you can get to a debuff you can have it apply that wouldn't cause tantrums

really depending on how laggy it may be, frags could have very small explosions and just fire a huge number of projectiles with very high damage dropoff

[civic garnet]

Think a fully automatic sharpnel cannon that shoots more pellets the longer you hold down the trigger & it was projectile based originally (Which you can guess where this goes)

Otherwise I am up for your idea, just it made me recall a old memory

[burnt venture]

RPG7 is too effective against both infantry and vehicles. PG07 frag must excel against infantry and RPG7 should be hard to use against infantry. Players must make a choice on which one to use. As of right now, most engineers run around with HEATs, and I'd like to have less people shooting rockets at me.

[drifting lark]

You do realize that having frag "excel against infantry" is just going to have more people shooting rockets at you in every other non-Conquest game mode right?

[burnt venture]

Well I did say that but what I mean is make it as effective as the HEAT against infantry, I know it wouldn't make a difference in non-conquest modes. I just don't like the HEAT being a jack of all trades.

[drifting lark]

Alright, sounds reasonable

[soft lotus]

guess this is on the bottom of their priority bucket. We may never see a rework until much later

[lone spear]

lots of shit to do I guess. very few people to do it too.

[buoyant perch]

bullets are better against infantry in a variety of scenarios and we already have the heat which excels against infantry that stays behind breakable walls and when you're on the highground, frag rpg would just be slightly better against infantry than the heat is, now with fewer rockets and less or no wall damage

[lone spear]

theoretically, there really shouldn't be "wall damage" for any of the RPGs beyond a hole. the tandems wall damage is alot closer to what it should be, a bit larger even.

[graceful peak]

Frag rpgs serve 0 purpose in the game. They should do what is intended, and FRAGMENT. This requires explosives to reworked entirely, but its the best option. Make explosives fragment properly and not soley do damage based on the distance from the center of the explosion. Frag grenades and frag rounds do lots of fragments with smaller explosive radius, things like c4 and heat rounds do less fragmentation with a larger radius. None of these bandaid fixes are gunna change anything unless this happens.

Also side suggestion: Give engineers an "allotment" of rpgs, instead of restricting each warhead to its own gadget. Lets say u have the big bag, u get 8 points for rockets. Heats are 2 points, frags are 2 points and Tandems are 3, or something (rough number)
This would allow people to run say 2 frag 2 heats rounds. Or 2 tandems and a heat, etc.

[buoyant perch]

we don't have to reinvent the wheel, just make the frag work like an actual antipersonnel rocket like a frag grenade but slightly stronger to make it worth using

your other idea is cool though if tandems weren't op

[graceful peak]

I would disagree, this would go on to make all explosives more balanced if done right. Not just the RPG. Makes heat less effective against infantry and reserved for vehicles, and frags serve a purpose, because right now they have a samller radius than heat.

[buoyant perch]

just make frags significantly better than heat against infantry

a direct hit with a heat should still kill a player or in the small radius it currently has imo

[graceful peak]

Also on the note of the tandem being OP, makes it so u can only carry one or whatever, doesn't really matter to me

I just find it silly you can only carry one type when they are all fired from the same launcher.

In reality AT soldiers tend to carry multiple warheads of various types to suit all situations. This would solve the problem of engineers being locked into one playstyle and more of a multipurpose roll.

[charred lynx]

I think they should make it full auto

[compact spade]

extra alternate take: maybe the frag remains the worst launcher but gains much higher velocity/lower drop/etc so its real easy to drop the thing into windows or hit helicopters with it

[quasi gull]

Make the frag launcher not an rpg. Make it one that has like 4 rockets inside of it.

But you only get the 4 rounds then toss it. No reload tho

[graceful peak]

So add an m202?

[quasi gull]

Sure why not lmao

The frag rounds wouldn't be bad if you didn't need to reload

If you could launch one then another, suddenly they'd be better than heats in a lot of situations

[frank notch]

design to kill infantry
doesnt kill infantry
It needs to kill dammit

[quasi gull]

Yee

I'm actually convinced though if you could shoot like 2 or 3 in a row it'd be really good

[soft lotus]

about to fire your 4th and last frag RPG to finally kill that oblivious sniper
"the war is over, sir..."

[charred lynx]

Make this a quad launcher from fortnite

[compact spade]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-ayutha-pooja-arnold-schwarzenegger-heroes-gif-hollywood-gif-13768401820019360728

[frail flame]

I briefly tried Frag and I think ... eh, if I'm not mistaken, enemy just got 54 damage from an almost direct hit
and that looked bad.
if Frag is meant to be anti-infantry rpg, it should kill everyone and their mom if they get hit and have no cover. (maybe not that drastic but still)
now it's basically heat for everything and tandem for vehicles.

[quasi gull]

I think it guarantees bleed

idk tbh

[frail flame]

also dunno since I never got hit by a frag I think

[quasi gull]

😂 what a concept

we can't be sure what it does because we never get hit by them

[frail flame]

lmao

[proven fable]

Imma try and use the frag rpg next time I play bbr.

[frail flame]

we need you, the brave man

[proven fable]

All right, there's one kill

[quasi gull]

He's done it

What did it feel like

[frail flame]

did you have to pour all missiles on that poor guy?

[jolly scarab]

The heat RPG should not be able to kill infantry the way it does. Nerf it so it does what it's intended to: take out light vehicles. Unless it's a direct hit, heat should struggle to kill infantry and should have almost no AOE. Frag on the other hand, should have a large AOE and deal, at the very lest, as much damage as frag grenade with a similar AOE. I tried using a frag RPG and it is utter dogshit. I fucking refuse to waste my time using a frag RPG, and if the devs are planning an achievement for it: simply don't. If they must, then fucking buff it, so it does what it's supposed to do. I hate having to use the "in real life" argument, but a heat round des not explode like c4, it shoots a jet of molten steal through armor, so it shouldn't kill people around it.

[frank notch]

Everything is guaranteed bleed if it deals over 40 damage

[frank notch]

HEAT in this game act like a HE than a HEAT, it's an anti building round

[civic garnet]

explains why I feel the fal bleeds me so often lol

[quasi gull]

I was saying I think the frags trigger it no matter what?

[proven fable]

Nah, I think my team mate shot him first a couple times though

[frail flame]

2 missiles for a single kill

doesn't sound promising

[quasi gull]

Simple solution

put two rockets on the end of the RPG

https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-thoughts-think-ponder-gif-7713620

[proven fable]

Nah, 3 bullets and 1 rocket

[quasi gull]

nah, one sledge and one rocket

[proven fable]

Hammer rocket

[jolly scarab]

Frag needs to act like HE

[gentle lagoon]

iirc it's more than 60; bleed happens when you go down to 40 hp or less

[quasi gull]

SEE

No one can agree on bleed I swear

[compact spade]

get a load of this guy
surviving taking damage

[hasty bolt]

is there a purpose for the frag rounds? I feel like heat works better in every situation

[lone spear]

main problem with RPGs right there

[soft lotus]

Once again frag RPGs is the forgotten child of this update

[gentle lagoon]

and the RSH, and the groza, and vehicles

but hey at least attachments are worse now!

[torpid forge]

you just have to think about which ones to use now
tac+burk+quick or flash hider/lb+bcm+quick is no longer the best combo everywhere

[civic garnet]

Bipod has words for you

[foggy plinth]

Remove frag. Heat does the job in a fairer way and gives you decisions to make. The heat user at least has to aim somewhat but imagine what these "room clear" and "increased aoe with more damage" suggestions would actually feel like in game

[gentle lagoon]

yeah, i agree

there's just no way to salvage frag without making it really aids and unfun to play against

[lone spear]

its funny cause a bug is the only reason you are saying this.

[foggy plinth]

Why do you say that? What is this bug?

[lone spear]

grounds bugged a bit and eats most of the blast radius of HEAT

its actually a good thing, HEAT is alot less opressive even mass fired now because it will only kill on an almost direct hit

while still blowing through walls and the like

as for FRAG being buffed with radius and damage it wont be as bad as you think because it would kill really only in the open. not being able to damage vehicles or walls would also keep it used to kill piles of people and the like. much like a frag and/or C4 but far more limited. I doubt even buffed Frag would be a primary choice for most players.

[gentle lagoon]

not every gamemode has vehicles. in fact the majority of them doesn't

[lone spear]

yes, but not being able to clear walls is a major point there.

hell most of what we want is a OHK on a direct hit, which is simply not the case as it stands. with the explosion damage limit at 490 it wouldn't be nearly as bad as you think

[gentle lagoon]

okay but the explosion damage limit needs to like, fucking go

it's so dumb. if more than 5 players are hugging and healing eachother in a pile, they should get punished

[lone spear]

I think it needs to be based on the gadget in question

frags needs some payoff since now they will just get eaten through walls forever, c4 should have it be lower at the very least against players.

FRAG should have its own limit as well, maybe just keep it a flat 500. most people in those piles would be low health anyway

[gentle lagoon]

no, it just needs to be removed completely. C4 needs to be nerfed in other ways, like slower "firerate", and a delay before you can explode it

it makes no sense for there to be a mechanic that rewards players for literally sitting in eachothers playermodels

huddling together should make you vulnerable to explosives, not give you magical powers against them

[lone spear]

c4s range, throw rate, and total damage all need to be toned down as it is

[lone spear]

personally I agree, but only if player models were actually solid and blocked other player models which would mitigate the problem since not everyone would be in the same spot dying to the explosive.

[foggy plinth]

this is actually hilarious

[foggy plinth]

ehh i wouldnt think so
It would still be used to kill people behind cover and instakill like heat. They still cover the same uses but heat is better because of vehicle damage. They cover the same use cases so both would need to be changed.
Throwing an idea out here but maybe if heat was made to be more general and a frag buff would feel better? What if heat had a tiny blast radius and made a pickaxe sized hole in cover with a narrow cone of damage behind it and disables vehicles? Like if you hit the tracks the tank moves slower/barrel slower to fire until repaired and 5-6 heat destroys it? Then it could be used against infantry and vehicles without being better than either in most situations and having the niche of killing people behind cover if you guess right

[lone spear]

if you have line of sight of someone there would be far better options to use usually. it would kill in the open and maybe in a room if you put it through a window. while heat will blow open a wall and negate that area from enemy use, while also tearing down the cover that enemy builds on top of vehicle damage of course

it just means FRAG would be used more but I doubt it would be nearly as prevalent as HEAT was/is.

maybe don't even touch the radius, just make it so that at the very least a direct impact can kill a player

as it is now it can make a squad bleed but not much more than that, and a single player will take two rockets to die even if both are direct hits and there is noone else around to eat damage

[gentle lagoon]

it really wouldn't be that simple

if it has a lethal aoe, then you'll have the upperhand against basically everyone. your TTK is instant, and you don't have to aim, just shoot the ground near them

[lone spear]

notice how I said direct impacts

right now all it does is make people bleed, with very little payoff for you other than keeping the enemy team pinned, which most casual players would hate since it doesn't earn much for them

2 hit kills a single player from full health

I don't need it to kill in a 15 meter radius like it does IRL

just being able to kill a single person with a rocket would be a massive upgrade

Being able to kill a player from full health on a direct impact, plus procing bleed on people near him would give frag its niche of pinning an enemy team while also at least giving you some sort of payoff other than some light damage

[zinc glacier]

I think there are broadly three options with FRAG:

• Keep it as is, but increase carrying capacity. The "sustained fire" option.
• Make it a prox-detonated anti-air round. Keep effectiveness the same. This makes it a true sidegrade over HEAT and Tandem.
• Keep the current blast range and lack of structure damage, but give it one hit kills on infantry direct hits. Makes it a specialist anti-infantry round.

[proven fable]

Combine ideas 1 and 3

[hasty bolt]

isnt idea three still what a heat rpg does?

[lone spear]

technically but the blast radius is currently small and there's no innate bleed effect

[zinc glacier]

My understanding is that the current FRAG has a wider blast radius. If it doesn't, it would need to be bigger for concept three.

In that model, the idea would be that you have your specialist anti-vehicle round (Tandem), your flex round (HEAT), and your specialist anti-infantry round (Frag).

[verbal sandal]

honestly, if they just give the frag the damage and explosion radius of the heat, and then shrink the radius of heat to like 1/3 or even 1/4 of its current radius with no real damage change, i feel like they would be realistic

[smoky holly]

My biggest issue with frag is that I can't even tell if the radius is actually signifiacntly bigger honedtly. It feels like frag nades instant kill from REALLY far away while rpgs kinda just hurt you and don't go as far

[verbal sandal]

irl heat rpg heads just leave a holepunch and a black smear on most harder targets

[smoky holly]

That would be a very good decision I think

why the bread response? 🤔

[verbal sandal]

bread

[smoky holly]

Understandable, I will cherish it forever

But yeah, the radius difference between frag and heat doesn't feel significant. Do we even know the exact numbers there?

[wary wolf]

Making it rely on direct hits is a bad idea. I prefer the idea of having it deal next to no damage to buildings, but dealing good damage in a wide area to discourage people from bunching up. Someone with a frag RPG who can find a good angle to shoot into a building should be able to make any room they fire into a no-go zone.

[regal idol]

The ammunition is visibly smaller, maybe quicker reloads/higher carry amount? I don’t think it needs damage buff, two engis could team up to get the damage. Keep heat the same

A lot of the weapons are already OP for 1 person to use so if the frag rewarded teamwork and assists that would be a nice addition

[proven fable]

Make it 2hk radius big 10m, along with that

[lone spear]

it already does that. nobody uses it because theres no payoff.

with the changes to bandaging and HP regen from said bandgages even more so. you will be almost at 100 before you are even loaded again.

[regal idol]

They made it quicker and increased carry amount?

[lone spear]

did I reply to your first comment?

[regal idol]

Oh my bad sorry 😂
U right

[crimson garnet]

Fragmentation grenades are fucking terrible. Useless even. They cannot actually kill enemies - They are not lethal!

[smoky holly]

That is my #1 issue. They better have a MASSIVE aoe with guaranteed bleed if it isn't a guaranteed kill, but the aoe is comprable to heat but with less utility uses. So goofy

[desert viper]

I like the idea of frag having guaranteed bleed within its area, as you can then use that to gain an advantage against an enemy position you're about to assault. Why not add that if it hits an already bleeding victim it's a kill? Kind of niche but it's a nice buff imo.

[frank notch]

Why bleed if no keel

[desert viper]

Because it will kill them if they don't deal with it, forcing them into a spot where they either have to risk the bleed if your forces are coming or try to bandage without getting caught doing so.

[lone spear]

other than blast radius, this is exactly what it does. and bandaging is sped up, and you heal for 50 instead of 40, actually just healing at all with bandages was added. This negates literally anything this could do without killing anyone because by the time you reload everyone is back at 80+ health

[smoky holly]

yeah from what zi understand bleeding occurs when dmg puts enemies at/below 40 hp, so it would do that already. Issue is rpgs take a while to load and unless you're using them in cqc frag nades just feel meh... And even then the blast isn't large enough to make heat "worse" vs infantry from what I hear

and even then, impact nades, flashbangs, etc exist. But unless you're actively following up adter the rpg, you don't get enough for frag rpg to be worthwhile to use because enemies will just heal the damage off

If you got more rpgs, the blast was significantly more damaging, the frags did more damage, etc, maybe it would be better? i'm not really 100% sure what it needs

[desert viper]

That's a good point

Why not just have them have behave like frag grenades?

[smoky holly]

I mean, honestly thats the best way of going abt it I think

I'm surprised frag rpgs don't fly faster, but with the scope there's probably reasons for that

[desert viper]

No building damage, minimal light vehicle damage, excellent infantry damage. And let the engi carry more than 3 of the things- you're giving up your ability to damage vehicles at range in order to focus more on infantry combat.

Basically they'd be rocket powered impact nades

[desert viper]

They could be the fastest and least drop, HEAT is middle ground and derp rounds tandem are the slowest and most drop

[smoky holly]

I think it would make sense. Makes them better at getting hits with it

Only issue I could see is being too easy to get instakills then

[desert viper]

And I'd love to smoke a sniper glint at 300m with a frag round 😆

Increase the total blast radius but reduce the 1HK core radius?

That way your "almost" rounds still count for something while your direct hits are solid. I hate that direct hits don't kill with them right now

[smoky holly]

i'd be ok with that personally

make it stronger CC, easier to aim, could help encourage medics to do their job if done right

like aoe "chip damage" or smthin

[lone spear]

yeah just give it a 1hk on a direct impact and like 1-3 meters, and a larger damaging radius that guarantees bleed

[desert viper]

Simultaneously a HEAT nerf needs to happen, reduce the AoE (you should still die if you get smacked by one) and increase the damage against vehicles a touch

But make the infantry damage AoE slope off very steep outside of like 2m

[lone spear]

right now it is kinda like that

blast radius for 1hk is very small(due to bug, but my god has it made it better to deal with)

[desert viper]

I'm just thinking of how much a well placed frag round would change the course of a fight

You find an enemy medic cuddle puddle and sayonara goes their momentum

[smoky holly]

Yeah, "realistically" 1hk similar to frag nades would be what occurs, but balance wise theres not any strong aoe counter to trophies so they would be a good solution

Same aoe as frags, more even damage distribution maybe? (splash doesn't fall off as hard) and 1hk on direct or very close hits

[lone spear]

course its not that strong

cause 490 explosive damage cap

[smoky holly]

i didn't know that actually

makes sense but new to me

[quasi gull]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1182088695210319993

Guys, I'm cooking

[smoky holly]

I like the idea, but hypothetically, grenade launcher?

like one of those cylinder ones?

[quasi gull]

wouldn't be a bad change either

[crimson garnet]

Just make the darn things lethal. They are a rocket propelled grenade ffs. Grenades kill ingame, so should a rocket propelled one.

[quasi gull]

Thank you Slaz. We do actually need your persistence in regards to the Frag rounds

Please actually post everyday about it since Oki listens to you 😭

[crimson garnet]

ok

[sweet ermine]

My take on frag:

• easy to use, fast, low drop at range
• useless against any armor
• useless against air
• useless against walls
• useless against infantry (for some unknown reason)

In conclusion - embarrassingly underpowered. There's literally no usecase for that round

[smoky holly]

I don't even think its faster than heat though

[wooden jacinth]

Not usable in slightest, only way to kill is to headshot them which defeats point of G for grenade

[proven fable]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M202_FLASH

[proven fable]

Frag rpg is nigh-impossible to balance, replace it with this

[smoky holly]

I certainly wouldnt mind this

[verbal sandal]

the infantry kill radius should be about what HEAT has now for frag, and frag should obliterate a chopper if it hits, it also should deal minor structure damage, maybe nly enough to break a few wallblocks, and then you make the HEAT infantry kill radius tiny and make the building damage radius just a hair smaller imo. they would be distinct and somewhat realistic

frag should theoretically have a higher velocity, but is not super relevant

[lone spear]

well frag ain't a rocket, so it drops alot more. also, frag is anti-INF why the hell would it obliterate a chopper?

[desert viper]

Depending on where it hits it should absolutely pulp the infantry inside

How is it not a rocket, btw?

[smoky holly]

it's rocket propelled obviously, it isn't a rocket itself 🤓 /s

Fr though I'm not gonna pretend to understand what defines a rocket in this case. for all intents and purposes it is afaik

Shit goes fast asf irl

[lone spear]

well no, its more like the bazooka, it has an initial charge, but there is no rocket that propels it after that like HEAT

[smoky holly]

TiL

So more akin in concept to something like a grenade launcher in reality

Launches the grenade, then it travels from that initial impulse instead of just being strapped to a rocket

[lone spear]

basically yeah

[verbal sandal]

have you ever seen what shrapnel does to a jet turbine? helicopters run on jet turbines

but also, ukraine has a new frag sleeve rpg that seems to have a booster, but that is extremely modern

[lone spear]

Yes but the HE you are speaking of was not designed with killing infantry as its job. Sure it would damage it but it’s not going to make that big of a deal unless it kills the crew. And in game it’s meant to be anti infantry, with heat being meant for otherwise, frag just needs to do a better anti infantry job.

[verbal sandal]

helicopter tailrotors die in only one btr shell, so why not?

[lone spear]

We want that to be able to be fought, and one shotting a chopper with frag would just be dumb

[gray mist]

So are frags ever going to be useful.

Literally just give it the anti-infantry damage of the heat and it would be good.

[verbal sandal]

gotta nerf heats infantry kill range though, just a bit so its worth using

and it doesn't need to oneshot a chopper, thats what tandem is for

[olive junco]

The frag needs a lethal distance; right now, it's completely useless. I suggest changing it to the current lethal distance of the heat, plus 1m, and carrying a quantity equal to half of the heat. Then, decrease the lethal distance of the heat by 1m.

[round grove]

Frag is still useless pls fix

[uneven cypress]

8 months since ea, frag still useless. Whoever makes decisions is monkey braining with this one...

[verbal sandal]

it just needs 1.5x the explosion radius of HEAT and HEAT radius reduced by .5

would be fine

[desert viper]

Any advancement in HE-FRAG getting made useful?

[round grove]

@desert viper unlikely

[plain crane]

Just massively buff the splash radius and set damage against armored vehicles to pretty much 0.