Pickaxe / Sledgehammer - Feedback

[scarlet rain]

Please keep it on topic, and civil, we want serious feedback

• No gifs
• No 'skill issue'

[pine birch]

More classes should have these and less classes should have C4.

Also they should be rolled into one weapon so that right-clicking gives a gentle tap that knocks out 1 brick but left click is the usual slam

[shadow pebble]

These should be a baseline feature, not something you have to opt-in to use. Remove C4 from being available to everyone and then give them pickaxe/sledgehammers like zorn mentioned then give them vehicle damage so 10 people can swarm a tank and beat the shit out of it like the goofy ass game this is

[dusk vine]

hmm i almost dont use c4 and in fact i use hammer almost always, as a weapon too tho (i mainly play recon) but i do like the fact that i can just take c4 whenever i want and explode everything with it

Sledgehammer, really good to create new routes instead of just exploding everything, can break almost everything in game like barricades and random boxes

never really used Pickaxe, still i saw it sometimes to create small roles in building so you can aim through it, i guess its the planned for pickaxe

[restive forge]

Make the pickaxe and sledgehammer melee weapons that are on a melee button rather than a gadget

That way everyone can destroy things all of the time like Oki wants

[storm jolt]

I don’t even have anything more to add myself, I had my own ideas but this is better.

[thin spire]

This is absolutely hilarious, I wouldn't be even mad if that's how I got killed.

[sour sedge]

these need to be the "universal tools" to break walls, not c4 of all things.

[abstract shell]

Hit registration needs to be fixed on pick axe before it’s forced over c4 though. Half the time I swing it doesn’t even hit anything, just plays the animation.

[sour sedge]

I assume because it has a single point of contact that is very rigid. if you move away or turn just slightly outside of its range you are not hitting anything with the pick since its meant to poke tiny holes, and not human sized ones.

[dusk vine]

yea, the contact for both sledge and pickaxe is the hidden middle point of guns, sledge breake a lot, but if you miss the mid it will break nothing

[ivory summit]

I wish there was an actual hitbox for the sledge/pick so you wouldn't have to be so stupidly accurate in order to hit an enemy with them

Especially enemies that are prone; shit doesn't hit them unless you're at least crouching

While they are meme options for getting kills in the first place I still wish for more consistency lol

[abstract shell]

I was literally proned on top of someone this morning g and definitely swung like 6-7 times before I actually hit him.

[muted sparrow]

I'd love to have these become more universal. Maybe turn them into primary gadgets?

Heard some guy say we could make hammers and picks secondaries, which would be super weird but it's an idea.

[sour sedge]

Universal gadgets better, anyone can use a hammer or a pickaxe. not so much explosives' would be far better than the meme of a melee secondary

[trim turtle]

you should be able to always hit with them and not just when you look at certain objects

[abstract shell]

It does feel like pickaxe hit registration got better. Not sure if it’s because of the hit reg changes in general or ninja fix but it definitely seems to connect more this release

[hollow wren]

at 100 kills the pickaxe should get a minecraft skin

[ivory summit]

It gets one at 1000

[quasi onyx]

Played a few games with a hammer, was fun
Hitting enemies is tricky though and is definitely at odds with expectations from how the swing looks
Plus not every wall breakable by c4 can be attacked, the white ones with blue edges for example
Give it at least light vehicle dmg
For extra memes make it possible to ditch the primary weapon for extra ms (I thought thats what the empty unlock at lvl 200 was at some point)

[restive forge]

Reposting my "just put these on a melee button" suggestion

[sleek yarrow]

Let me one tap people to the head

[restive forge]

One tap people to the shin with the sledge

[sleek yarrow]

Somebody just hears "Gonna break your kneecaps, fool!"

[azure heath]

I think it's range could be better, and should feel more intuitive. I feel like I have to get very close to things in order to hit them, or sometimes second guess myself with the distance.

[thin spire]

Maybe it could have a slight pose change to indicate when one is within smashing distance of something.

[sour sedge]

it has one

[plush mulch]

Okay having used the hammer as a primary weapon for several rounds I have good idea of how the thing works to a degree the most prominent issue I have run into is the hit consistency while the player is moving you can be right up in some dude face to the point where they take up a good portion of the screen swing and miss multiple times even though the crosshair is dead center on the target and you're close enough to where you could see the sweat on there face. prone targets make this even worse as you can be walking in a circle right on top of someone trying to kill you miss 7 or 8 swings even though it looks like you should be hitting them and either die immediately or score a single hit and then die it's a bit frustrating to rush in catch someone with there pants down and then die because despite doing everting correctly none of your swings hit this is compounded by the fact that the hammer is a 2 hit kill because you have to pray to god that who ever you just decided to rush is at 50hp or below and that your hit will connect and kill them. there has been many a time where I would have lived had a my hammer one tapped them or b my subsequent swings actually hit the target. I can think of 3 ways to improve the experience of giving people involuntary cranial reconstruction. the first one is giving the hammer a much more generous hit detection if that's not viable then the second option is to make the hammer a one hit kill or at the very least allowing it to one hit on a head shot and my third suggestion is less a "fix" and more a bandage hitting someone with the hammer typically results in an assist either because some behind you shot they guy you're attacking before you can get you second swing off or you hit them once got downed and then the guy you bonked runs off and gets shot. but the thing is counts only as an assist and not a assist counts as kill you 50 xp as a reward for a stolen kill if you you could get an assist count as kill for hitting a guy once.

it would make the hammer more "fair" or at least give a slight consolidation prize for dying 7 times in a row while trying to close to hammer range and managing to land a hit.

[sour sedge]

I literally cannot read this on mobile holy hell

[quasi onyx]

Im against the OHK and wholeheartedly for points 1 and 3
Make hitting more reliable and give assist counts as kill
Reward getting up close and personal

[tame perch]

can't read it on pc either

[plush mulch]

yeah sorry I'm not exactly good at getting points across in a concise matter TLDR my 3 suggestions for hammer improvement are 1 make hitting a target more reliable 2 make it a one tap or at the very least a one tap on a head shot and 3 this is an alterative for 2 if one tapping is a bad idea is that you should be rewarded for closing the distance and managing to get a single hit off by getting an assist counts as kill rather than just an assist for bonking a guy down to 50 health when someone kills they guy your attacking either because a they shot your target before you could get you second swing in or b you bonked your target once got downed and then the dude you attacked runs off and gets killed.

[sour sedge]

my man "shift + Enter" allows you to space lines apart in the same message. you could also just send more messages as long as it isn't spam.

I don't think they should one shot but a two to three shot with armor could work, but also slow the attack rate to make up for it. Making it more accurate just goes without saying. headshot multiplier could make it be two shot with helmet, 1 without.

[sleek yarrow]

A 3 shot kill for the sledge would make it unbearable to try to get kills with

[sour sedge]

right now its like a 5 hit to someone that is full health

[sleek yarrow]

My opinion is, if you're close enough to get a sledgehammer kill, the person you're hitting was gonna die anyways, might as well make it oneshot headshot

[storm jolt]

it's a two hit

and it ignores armor.

[somber gorge]

hammer hitbox needs to be improved, I know what I'm talking about cuz i have 600+ kills

• one hit on head should be enought
• Another way to buff hammer is adding rmb (heavy hit) to its mechanic

LMB (Light Hit)
RMB (Heavy hit )

[coarse viper]

Heavy hit would be nice. 1 shot headshot may be a bit op. Would also be nice if the sound effect were more satisfying

[sleek yarrow]

Don't know why everybody keeps saying a 1 hit headshot would be op. Like, if you're close enough to get an accurate head hit the enemy probably doesn't know you're there anyways, meaning you have about 5 different ways to kill them without them being able to do much.

1 shot headshot is just a convenience thing, honestly.

[sour sedge]

with how it is right now you can just charge them, with movement you can get the kill even with them facing you. 1 hit kill means that you wont get that chance to defend.

[trim turtle]

if sb manages to get to you with a hammer you deserve to die to a one hit. The only issue I see is camping in doorways and one hitting everyone walking in

[sour sedge]

I think you forget that there are alot of other cqb moments where someone can just run up on you. the attack is like a light tap that resets in half a second and it two shots you. if they are wearing anything above no armor they can close and be in your face extremely quickly. So no, someone getting close to you should not guarantee you a one hit kill. the only thing holding them back from being annoying is that the hit detection is way the fuck off, so they have to try multiple times to hit you. once they fix that the "two hit" kill will take less than a second.

[quasi onyx]

Making hits reliable and not a fucking guessing game will be enough

[muted sparrow]

Sledge and Pick's main function isn't supposed to be lethality, so I disagree with making them more lethal.

Sledge and Pick have a lot of use since shutters were added, they might not even need a direct buff anymore.

[quasi onyx]

They both have skins which unlock at 600 (hammer) and 1000 (pick) kills
Dont tell me we arent supposed to bludgeon ppl with them

[sour sedge]

its main function is not to kill, but be utility. if they fix the hit reg, both will be very lethal if everything else stays the same.

[quasi onyx]

Their utility is fine, thats why nobody is complaining about it
But the folk that decided to mix things up and try some w40k melee style found that its inconsistent and are here expressing their wish for better melee

[sleek yarrow]

In a game that is designed around fast ttks and gunplay, I see no reason for the only melee weapons to get some buffs to their melee potential. Anybody who actually uses one is either grinding or memeing. So, again I say: give it some kind of oneshot potential. Anybody who gets that close with a melee weapon deserves the kill.

[sour sedge]

you get that close many times anyway. so no you don't.

[hallow vale]

I really doubt you manage to get into deep throating range where a hammer is useable that often

[sour sedge]

you never run into people through doors, or around corners? when that happens we run through the guy or stop to shoot. it happens all the time, maybe not in 32 or smaller, but 64 and up it happens plenty of times if you don't spend every moment alive staying away from any possible choke.

[hallow vale]

If I run into people through doors with a hammer out and the emperors mercy at my side I get shot the shit or I surprise them and smack them same as any other weapon in that situation

[sour sedge]

yeah but now its a one hit kill with hopefully fixed hit reg

basically guaranteed at that point

unless you happen to run into someone using a one tap weapon and the hit your hit your head + armor doesn't take it like it sometimes does.

[hallow vale]

If I know he’s there sure, that’s now just a situation where I have the position advantage, and when we both have the shock and horror of seeing each other? The one who has top aim up at his head or the one who can just click

+that swing wind up

[sour sedge]

I don't think you know how fast you can actually swing these things

[hallow vale]

I don’t think you know how slow it can feel in the heat of the moment

[sour sedge]

unless they drop you instantly, you will kill them. the only thing holding them back is the shitty hit reg

[hallow vale]

If we run into each other around a corner, not knowing of each others existence, at the same time, AND I have the hammer out already

[sour sedge]

people running pickaxe and sledgehammer tend to run with it out as soon as they get near choke points

[hallow vale]

And people tend to also defend choke points by not sitting in the choking bit

[sour sedge]

bud, literally any building is a "choke", the containers count too.

it ain't just a single valley or something

[hallow vale]

Chokes that I can just blast the walls off of and get them from behind

Also pretty bad chokes that I can just not go/ flank

[sour sedge]

yeah, but are you gonna do that everytime? to every building? every wall and piece of cover?

I think we are both strying away from the actual conversation at this point.

[hallow vale]

I’d say where seeing the situations

Everything’s jumbled together and effects each other

To me it Seems like your making the point that one hit hammers would be op due to camping

[sour sedge]

as it is right now, if these things simply got better hit reg, they kill everything extremely quickly because they ignore all armor and swing again very quickly, and they are two hits anywhere on the body as far as I can tell.

having a one hit mechanic on top of that would simply be broken

maybe if the follow up swings were slower but its very quick right now

[hallow vale]

I see it as being fine, the situations where you’d get into a effective hammering distance are limited and avoidable with game sense and perception, followed up with the innate disadvantages of being a knife to a gun fight AND needing to hit a small constantly shifting target in extreme close range balancing it to be a niche stealth tool/ survive hail merry

[sour sedge]

oh and since you mention camping, that honestly barely crossed my mind. I'm just used to these guys pulling up like the coked up medics of old and airstrafing around as they round the corner.

[sour sedge]

hit reg is the only reason its hard to hit a player.

that gets fixed, its trivial. right now, you can miss a still prone player if you don't look at the correct angle

[hallow vale]

Know that but that’s not stopping the enemy from using their 30 chances to hit me 3 times as I make my way to hammering distance

[sour sedge]

if you are moving properly, you will be running through their vision and circling them, without lucky headshots they ain't winning that. If you are just sprinting at them from the open and not using cover you are not moving properly

[hallow vale]

and the same is done with smgs, except they are better equipped to deal with multiple

What’s the difference?

[sour sedge]

you do realise people don't like that about light kits right?

but anyway

a one hit kill is always going to be frustrating.

there is no "stealth" involved with people who use them. its simply closing the distance as fast as possible.

[hallow vale]

Dying is frustrating, I don’t mind one hits if it’s a challenge to do

[sour sedge]

it wont be bud

the only reason, like I have been saying

is because hit reg sucks

[hallow vale]

Not referring to a straight assault with that one, more ala smacking a prone sniper so his buddies done hear the gunshots

[sour sedge]

honestly as long as you don't use a automatic weapon, his buddies wont notice

hell they won't notice if you use one

[hallow vale]

And if it didn’t we’d get a increase where the hammer is usable, which is already a situational event

[sour sedge]

it kills full health players faster than most rifles currently

[hallow vale]

And if they do? No tool going to work 100% of the time

[sour sedge]

of course not, but we not really talking about prone snipers in the middle of bumfuck nowhere

[hallow vale]

At a piece meal sized range

[hallow vale]

And I wasn’t specifically talking about snipers, more the situation where I’d like to try pick of some people quietly without alerting others

[sour sedge]

one hit kills will simply cause massive problems in the larger servers. granted for 32 v 32, maybe even 64 v 64, a one hit kill that is situational would actually be fine, though 64 might be pushing it. in 127 it would make any urban environment hell to traverse.

how about this. since it just looks like both of us are gonna keep arguing in circles

lets have them fix the hit reg

and then go from there

[hallow vale]

👍

[sleek yarrow]

So this one hit kill thing, does that mean you also have a major problem with snipers and heat rpgs?

[sour sedge]

HEAT RPGs yes, less for it being a one hit kill, and more so that it does everything all at once and does it well.

Snipers not so much since I use smoke and try to avoid sniper fields/counter-snipe. to be honest, I die to snipers more when I snipe/counter-snipe than actually playing the objective.

Its not that it would be a one hit kill that I have a problem with necessarily, its more that there would be very little counter-play other than "flick to the head" and hope.

[somber gorge]

agree

[heady tartan]

I main as a medic, I have no idea why it has C4.
I mainly use it to create shortcuts and remove obstacles. And blow up trees to create a bigger field of vision.
I would trade away the C4 in a heartbeat for an axe so I can remove trees and bushes.
Bushes can't even be removed with C4. If a squad jumps down in a ditch with some bushes close to an objective, they can have it. I'm not going to try and fight them.

On rare occasions I actually use C4 to kill people and destroy Rally Points through the floor

[restive forge]

An axe would be sick

[sour sedge]

turning this whole game into minecraft

[sleek yarrow]

Let me do an execute animation when I kill a sniper with the sledge, so they can watch their death in slow motion

[restive forge]

If we smack the head do a "crack" noise. Special little noise

[heady tartan]

Shoutout to the Minecraft pickaxe skin

But for real, pick any level with a big forest around an objective. And compare how well you can hold it with and without trees nearby. Providing the enemy with good cover allowing them to get both closer and take cover.
Wakistan is always being played so try defending the objective on either side of the bridge

Heck, if you take out all the trees on the enemy side of the bridge you have created a no man's land, making all the snipers on your team very happy

[sour sedge]

yeah I would honestly take it, if not bushes the damn trees that are tougher than armored vehicles. then again there would need to be more grass and other minor foilage to fill in space, other wise the already very empty ground looks even emptier

[heady tartan]

Agreed on the foliage. More grass or taller grass .
Terrain deformation from explosions would also be hella neat

[abstract shell]

Lol no thanks. There’s enough snakes already

[sour sedge]

I don't mind snakes in the grass because I look for them, and/or hunt them with a flir. its the ones behind the impenetrable trees that become a true problem.(the fact the things can just take RPG fire and tanks shells and not only will the person behind it survive, most of the time the tree will also live). Squad spawning is something that needs to change,

[abstract shell]

What trees are those? You can blow up most trees with c4 afaik

And there should be more shit in this game that’s stops rpgs and tanks, not less

Both are aids

As aids as snakes in the grass

[muted sparrow]

Not saying we aren't supposed to, just saying it's not meant to be the main function.

[restive forge]

I'm back to complain

Please make the melee weapons have their own dedicated slot or assign them to a melee key

They're practically useless due to C4, they don't one tap anyone, and you have to give up such vital stuff to even use them

If they were always available they'd be not only way more useful, they'd be an iconic part of the game

[sour sedge]

but c4 is necessary for all classes to open up walls!

[restive forge]

https://tenor.com/view/hey-champ-keep-it-to-yourself-keep-gif-20825097

[sour sedge]

sorry, was said by oki

and therefor law

[restive forge]

Lmao, I remember 😂

Yea, having these on their own dedicated key would let every class destroy stuff like oki wants as well

Also, I wanna hit people with them more often

[sour sedge]

melee weapons be universal, fix hitreg

honestly they swing fast enough that unless the guy is already shooting you, you should be able to kill him without him fighting back(unless he got friends) so the two tap aint that bad

[restive forge]

I still stand it shouldn't need to be equipped though. Would be more fun

[quasi onyx]

It seems to be hitting the last concrete object on its path
Tried killing a fella lying next to a container and hammer went right through him with a metalic bonk

[abstract shell]

c4 on all class is fine but it needs to be nerfed for sure

when I play medic I actually miss my pickaxe from assault. Sometimes you don't want to blow up and entire wall to sneak through

[sour sedge]

or just limit how many people have access to it. the problem isn't really the c4 its how many classes have access to it.

[abstract shell]

I'm all for either taking it off medic or nerfing how it's used. Whether it's unthrowable or takes time to set.

The problem isn't C4 it's medics running around top speed tossing them every which way. Even just making them blocked by trophy would be fine with me

[sour sedge]

honestly it should really only be in assault and engy, and argument could be made for support though. and maybe shorten the range of the throw as well.

I wouldn't mind a set only c4 as another option though

[abstract shell]

They could even just make C4 weigh medics down and I'd be happy

[sour sedge]

I don't see how that would work for a single class.

[thin spire]

As much as it would pain me to lose C4 on my beloved support, this definitely feels like the right call. Even then, Assault should get like 2 bricks max, maybe up to 4 by giving up some other slot.

And corresponding to the more specialized status it would have, Engi should similarly be forced to either give up the RPG for a full complement of C4 or have a more restricted supply as well.

[restive forge]

Nah, I think the problem is c4 being on everyone lol.

I think engineer and support should be the only two to have c4. Then give everyone the sledgehammer and pickaxe as melee weapons that are on their own slot or melee button

That way everyone can still bust through walls if they want (as Oki intended), skins for them aren't literally a meme grind to get, and you aren't giving up objectively better utility to mine for diamonds

[somber gorge]

more skins for sledgehammer

[stray herald]

I would personally like to see these merged into one gadget choice (call it "breach kit" or something), and let people earn and select skins individually like you do today.

It's a very niche peice of kit, and it would be nice to have the option of small or large holes depending on the situation. I don't think it would break anything.

[versed dove]

I'd like it if you could pick them in both category of gadget. Like I can choose whether it's in the first or second one.

[blazing epoch]

There should be a stat for the number of buildings you have destroyed with the sledge. Just funsies really.

[supple fulcrum]

I don't think thats necessarelly "the" problem, it's just that the sledge hammer/ pickaxe is too weak in comparison.

I guess a damage buff and a hitbox on a merged gadget would fix the balance.

[north tangle]

Explosive Sledgehammer
You decided to rig your DIY door maker with improvised explosives. What can go wrong?

[versed dove]

pickaxe/sledge hammer should be a free tool category

[fervent stump]

make it so we can freely swing them and give them to all classes

[celest jay]

Can we have sledge hummer to all classes, instead of C4 to all classes?
Also sledge hummer hit reg is awful. It (for some unknown reason) prioritise walls and flor over literally enemy. WHY?

[fervent stump]

It should also have a free swing

[blazing ridge]

Free swing for both and sledgehammer for all classes, while pickaxe stays for just recon.

[pure pewter]

Sledgehammer and/or pickaxe should be able to knock down trees

[heady tartan]

Or an axe addition

[pure pewter]

Axe with 1 hit kill would be a legit challenge