Medkit - Feedback

[placid folio]

Please keep it on topic, and civil, we want serious feedback

• No gifs
• No 'skill issue'

[junior cedar]

This item right here is at the core of Medic's dominance across the board. Two main problems:

• Makes it the only class that can provide infinite healing to itself.
• Even without the item, other classes have far less bandages available to themselves and hence less sustainability.

My proposal, which makes this consistent with Support's ammo box, is to replace LMB self-heal with box drop that contains 50 or so bandages. Can still heal themselves on the move with their abundant supply of bandages, but not infinitely, and more importantly, even selfish medics that just want to resupply themselves will leave behind boxes that the other classes can use, solving the bandage scarcity issue.

[pliant vortex]

bandages aren't really scarce any more though

I can't speak for every playstyle but it seems like it's unlikely you'll ever run out much as it stands

[junior cedar]

It certainly doesn't happen as often now, but it is still a thing for me. And you still have these situations like chip damage from explosives, falls or potshots where you are forced to consider whether it's worth it to use a bandage to recover those missing 14 HP. This is not a decision current Medic is ever forced to contend with and is part of what enables their unrivalled hyperaggressive playstyle.

[pliant vortex]

medic needs superior healing to be viable. I have no issue with there being some nuance to the healing of other classes.

[junior cedar]

This proposal does nothing to change their superiority in that regard.

The idea is to shorten the size of the gap, not the ordering of it.

[honest elbow]

I agree with this because I like the idea of encouraging medics to drop their packs more. Right now they technically can but it's extremely rare to see. Support is in a decent spot where there's pros and cons both to dropping and holding a pack, but medics 99% of the time just don't even bother.

[idle frigate]

Do medics get point now when they drop their pack? Did not use to be the case.

[gusty marten]

I always wished the medkit was something that if a medic used it you could run up to them (the medic) and hold a button to heal yourself and it would consume a charge of the medkit. I was hoping that's how support was going to work too and that there would be a button you could press to find a nearby medic/support and alert them to you so you could meet in the middle instead of 1 person chasing the other.

Then you could have another gadget that replicates what we currently have

[spiral raptor]

a comparison of the bandage & medkit
Bandage
1.Used for multiple things (Revives,Fixing bleeding & healing)
2. Limited resource (prior to the bandage increase most had 4-5 tops)
3. Takes time to do a burst of healing
4. has a wonky interaction when near others who start to bleed or go down
5. heals for 40 HP when used on self

Medical Crate

1. Used for two things (healing others & yourself)
2. Unlimited resource (Only limitation factor is draw speed and if you are down but both can be said of a bandage)
3. Instant stream of health
4. Different buttons to do self or allies (only jank is if you are in a crowd wanting to heal a specfic person)
5. a stream of health that is more versatile (no delay on regaining health mix in the fact it is faster in the health regaining process)

[junior cedar]

Ah, point 4 is an important thing I want to highlight with regards to my suggestion. I'm sure people would hate it if they went from smooth medkit self healing to the self-bandage jank that we currently have. BUT this can easily be avoided by giving bandages the same controls as medkits currently have: LMB for self and self only, RMB for others.

Holding 3 is still a fast and convenient way to apply this on the move, so I would just make that also apply self-heals only.

[spiral raptor]

I will be honest with the medkit through

it may be best to make the medkit operate similar (for self heal only) to how it acts when on the ground (and make it interruptable by damage)

So it either is a progress bar that when finishes (but is reset by receiving damage) that either grants a instant burst of 40 HP or have it do a HoT that is equally interrupted by any damage taken (so it flat out gets canceled if you get hit) that does more healing but equally takes longer to apply it fully (So better out of combat self heal but equally worse mid combat to counteract the infinite natural of the self heal)

another idea is make it have it's own self heal only resource

[junior cedar]

But then aren't you more or less replicating the way bandages work?

[spiral raptor]

in some ways yes

keep in mind the medkit self heal is flat in all ways and shapes better than the bandages

only restriction is you must play medic

[junior cedar]

Right, which is why most people play medic. 😄 Making them use bandages for self-healing like everyone else would be nice for balance but also simply to keep things consistent.

[spiral raptor]

Well making the bandages a required part to self heal would equally create issues (Again)

since guess who gets the most bandages?

[junior cedar]

I am aware of that. So, at least you agree that we would not change anything other than having a more consistent healing interface, right? To me that's already a win.

But with my suggestion to turn the medkit into a bandage supply box when dropped, when Medic runs out of bandages (which would happen much faster now since they need to use them for healing and not just bleeds) they will leave behind something that nearby mates can also use, hence reducing the gap in bandage availability across classes.

[spiral raptor]

interesting idea

[candid pike]

give me medkit camos for healing people

[junior cedar]

Some special armor/helmet/camo/etc. setup for medics who you can actually trust to medic would be cool

[distant obsidian]

Would be pretty cool to give special class--specific skins that are hard to grind preforming your class corresponding task

[pastel bridge]

You will often see medics just spastically dancing out in the open with the medbox out healing themselves. It's so stupid. Immersion breaking.

[candid pike]

there's some decent options already that have a lot of red, but interesting point

[junior cedar]

One more thing I want to emphasize about this proposal - it is not meant to be a nerf or a buff to solo Medics. Whether making them use bandages would result in a faster or slower HP recovery, is something that can be separately adjusted.

The core issue this change addresses is that it ensures that even selfish use of the Medkit will result in a benefit to the team.

Incidentally, I do think it would result in a buff to healer Medics (which is good), since currently they only have the 20 bandages they start with. Giving them a way to resupply via the medkit would let them stop bleeds and performs revives far more liberally than what is currently possible.

[grizzled depot]

Just remove the self heal while holding and force you to drop to self heal, allows Medic to maintain healing other classes as intended but forces them to have a finite amount of times they can self heal or they have to sit on the medical crate. Most of the issues with medic would disappear overnight with this one change.

The other change to bandaging could be that they implement a hard cap on the amount of times that one could be revived, say after 2 deaths the 3rd death would send you back to the respawn screen instantly. Allows the Medic to maintain reviving more players then constantly reviving the same players sometimes 10-11 times in a row and wasting bandages.

[junior cedar]

Revives are already implicitly limited by the give up bar

Its duration doesn't reset when you get revived

So every time you have progressively less time to get revived

[grizzled depot]

They are but the give up rate allows the burn of so many bandages on one singular character that it's possible to run out of "revives" off a miniscule amount of players due to spam reviving. Limiting the amount of times one can be revived changes the aspect of just run/rush to battle to more tactical assessment of the situation from the higher echelon of players. They have to weigh the option of staying alive or risking dying too much.

Basically, it changes the overall meta from rushing in with multiple medics with movement speed and SMG into a more diverse set of loadouts. If I really wanted my way, I would say that Medic should be the second slowest class next to Support. Giving Medic the amount of movement speed that they have encourages non-teamplay to take priority for those that just self med and/or play with people who just follow them around and revive constantly.

Another enormous issue is that movement speed allows snappy movement that isn't smooth, I'm sure a large number of players have noticed shooting at someone and they just 180 snap moving back and forth to just getting instantly beamed by the player jittering around the screen, the issue isn't that "they got skilled" movement speed is overall not smoothly animated/tuned to prevent players from instantly turning. Another pass at animation to smooth the overall player while they serpentine so they don't snap would also help prevent the current Medic Meta that plagues the game.

[junior cedar]

Movement and TTK is garbage in this game but the ADHD kids will throw a fit whenever anyone mentions changing and this isn't the thread for that anyway

[grizzled depot]

Exactly, so I am sticking to my Medkit idea where self healing is completely removed while holding the gadget and you are forced to drop the medkit to self heal. This one change would mostly fix the Medic Meta imo.

[junior cedar]

The problem with that is you now have an inconsistent system because every other class can use bandages to heal themselves

[grizzled depot]

Well if you look at it, removing the self heal would cause the use of more support players dropping ammo boxes and Assault players dropping more small ammo boxes due to those players swapping from Medic to those classes. I know this isn't the thread for ammo boxes but with the self heal removal the next logical thing would be to up the resupply node for bandages in the ammo boxes allowing for more players to collect more bandages. Medkits can still heal being dropped on the ground and medics still have the niche of healing at better rates than bandaging. Overall it would increase teamplay exponentially from removing the self heal.

[junior cedar]

Except you'll get most current Medic players switching to Assault solely to resupply themselves

And even people who would like to play Medic are now incentivized not to because of the inconvenient lack of a self heal on the move

[grizzled depot]

Yes but that would leave more ammo boxes on the ground and scattered for other players to use as well, the selfishness still benefits other players.

[junior cedar]

Sure but you'll have way less medics around, so bandages are going to be consumed extremely fast and you can forget about revives since nobody will want to go through the long timer

[grizzled depot]

Risk/Reward still comes into play, it slows the game down a bit but overall would make fighting and sustaining that much more intense and rewarding.

[junior cedar]

Maybe, but good luck getting the playerbase on board with that change

Suggestions need some compromise between intended effects and acceptability

[grizzled depot]

Majority of playerbase isn't typically listened to now, it's just the feedback team that usually influence the changes here. From what I have seen (granted I have been following BBR for the total of about 3ish months now) the feedback team who are full sweats are the ones influencing development of the current game.

Most of the player base doesn't interact in a space to help improve the game as well, lots of the voices on current issues are lost due to this.

It's like Ubisoft only developing Siege around pro league rather than 70% of the player base.

[pliant vortex]

The goal of the feedback team is supposedly to read everything that goes on in here and format the opinions presented to forward to the devs

I don’t think they’re supposed to just give their opinions

[candid pike]

This is very backwards

[grizzled depot]

My personal observations, if anything they could be viewed as speculative but this is from recent events and seeing how most of the decisions have been handled

[junior cedar]

Just wanted to share this eloquently written comment from the ammo box thread as it is also relevant for this discussion

If the medic has to place down his box to heal himself then it also benefits the team. The way Support is now is basically how it should be, where in order to dip into his own supplies he needs to drop the box.
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[pastel bridge]

What does dropping the medic box actually do? I couldn't even pick one up that I found.

[junior cedar]

It lets you interact with it. Hold F and a progress bar starts, once it completes, you start healing yourself.

So its a fairly slow but infinite self-service heal.

Personally I think it's so slow it's annoying to use, which is another reason why I would much rather have it just be a box of bandages I can grab from and go.

[manic pasture]

Medics should not be able to self heal with the exception of bandages.
Ecourage teamplay by making you seek out another medic.

[mint cape]

ahhh hell nah bro, you want medic only lobbys again xD

[manic pasture]

the reason people play medic is because of their incredible self sustain

[mint cape]

that got fixed, kinda, i just want to be able to heal others quicker if i have to medic

and also making them rely on eaxh other is a recipe for desaster

[pliant vortex]

incredible self sustain only matters if you live long enough on the other classes for lack of incredible sustain to have a significant impact

Since the bandage count buffs it has become less valuable now. And if you’re playing assault or support you can have extra from kits as well

[manic pasture]

I happen to turn a lot of fights around because of my medkit

I can just pull that bad boy out, move like a maniac while I heal and SURVIVE, just to turn around with full hp and beat whoever was shooting me

at least give it a self healing speed penalty or something because I should NOT be able to do that.

I can cancel the heal at any time and still get value out of it, you cant do that with a bandage

[spiral raptor]

So did I miss something or? (I don't recall a self heal nerf to my knowledge on the medkit)

[spiral raptor]

welcome to what I have been saying

The medkit is just flat out better than bandaging in every way shape & form

and I am going to say this again

We need to remove bandage healing and just add a DEDICATED heal slot with it's own dedicated healing items

[manic pasture]

one of the many "I shouldn't have survived this" clips

while it wasn't directly because of the medkit, the speed at which I was back at full heath was just unprecedented

[manic pasture]

just to drive my point home, I timed it from the first frame that I lower my medkit to bandage, and stopped the timing on the frame the HOLD BUTTON TO HEAL prompt disappeared

Seeing as bandages heal on use, I went from 9HP to 100 in barely over 6 seconds

And, even if it's 30HP for a bandage, and I went from 19 to 100, that only makes it marginally better.

[grizzled depot]

I agree that self heal is definitely in a very selfish and unbalanced state for Medic. We really need to give it the treatment of Support where self healing/ammo requires you to toss a medkit in order to heal.

It also prioritizes medics wanting to sustain more using large backpacks, balances movement speed as well come to think of it

There's seriously zero downside to not run a smaller BP on Medic.

[manic pasture]

Issue is also that the bonus bandage speed applies to self too.

The time it took me to heal to full is what it would’ve taken any other class to apply the bandage

[grizzled depot]

First thing that should be focused is self healing with Medic, currently you can't bandage with Medic to self unless bleeding. That's one downside to it, you can only heal partially as a Medic if they remove self heal for the Medkit, forces them to drop to heal if they want to.

It sort of balances itself out in the end, remove Medkit self heal and the class is balanced around risk/reward entirely

[manic pasture]

I agree, let medics self heal at the normal speeds with a bandage like any other class, and maybe cut down the Medkit Selfheal to 75%

[manic pasture]

welcome to another episode of "I shouldn't have lived this but I did because I am a medic"

[spiral raptor]

personally I would go with one of two ideas

1. Medic must toss down their medkit to self heal
2. the medic's self heal is a progress ball that gets interrupted by damage and gives a HoT which heals X HP over X seconds and is equally interrupted by damage

[silent ocean]

Please swap the LMB and RMB for healing. While we’re at it, do it for C4 also. Helicopters should have their mouse up and mouse down inverted by default.

[languid wave]

Medkits on the ground should give exp

[pliant vortex]

That is an entirely subjective thing and also basically irrelevant as people will get used to both of those in a few minutes of using either :p

[junior cedar]

That's a thing to request for customization options, not really item feedback

[chilly night]

Having an option for this would be nice

[manic kindle]

After playing more on other classes than medic, I can say that medkit, in my opinion, have some troubles:

1. It gives not that much xp - to get substantial amount of xp you should heal to full hp a few people which can take 10+ seconds of time just sitting holding mouse button, while on support you can get a few thousands of xp in 2-3 seconds of resuplying random teammate.

2. The amount of healing from dropped medkit is not substential - its hard to see them, there is a pretty uncommon button used to drop medkit, it takes a lot of time to heal and almost no hp is healed each time. Its easier to heal with bandage or ask a medic directly at this point. And again - its way easier and faster to refill ammo from the boxes.

3. Holding in hands design. I think this is the biggest problem for me - If I want to support my team and actievly heal them then I need to stop playing the game and stay AFK with medkit, I cant revive people, I cant shoot people, I dont do anything and just sit. It feels more of a job than a game in this situation, especially on 250 servers.

[manic pasture]

Medic and Support XP are equally bugged as of currently.

Both are receiving insane amounts of XP for their respective team action. Keep in mind that the heal action XP is also balanced around a revive.

A revive + full heal gives a hefty amount of xp, on par with resupplying a half empty teammate. Medic also gets +200XP at the end of a finished heal, support doesn't

as for two, I agree, there is almost no reason to drop a medkit. I guess the idea is to leave it in places that you know is gonna have a lotta fighting but you dont wanna stick around but...
1.) as you said, the healing is slow and negligible.
2.) there's probably like 5 other medics within 20 metres because SMG Medic Meta

third point is a solid "eeeeh I get it but not kinda"
I see the point you're making, but I chalk that up to needing to decide whats more important in any given situation
Fire Support, Healing, or reviving?

[chilly night]

Idea for revives which relates to medkit kind of

Maybe after someone is revived enough times their max hp is lowered a bit? Down to a minimum of like 75-80%?

Might help with the scoring being out of wack for multiple revives in a row? Maybe?

[ocean kiln]

pressing x to pick up your med box shouldnt change the fire mode and dropping a med box shouldnt swap to your main weapon (or give a setting to disable this)

[manic pasture]

People will start holding space even harder

[chilly night]

Well, they're already holding it down 💀. I guess if they break they key they won't anymore

[pliant vortex]

I don’t think this is a major enough issue to warrant disincentivising revives even harder

[chilly night]

True. I didn't think it was that great an idea tbh. But thought I'd throw it out there

[chilly night]

Make the medkit more squishy looking

Like a bag

Or a marshmallow

[junior cedar]

replace with

[chilly night]

You know, good idea

[manic pasture]

I'm all for it

[junior cedar]

Just to point out I did drop that same suggestion over here :)
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[manic pasture]

Just force medic to find another medic to heal

[high raven]

I'm not a fan of when I'm holding 3 to revive/heal someone, and they get healed by someone else, so suddenly I'm healing myself. If a heal gets interrupted by someone either holding space or by getting healed by others, the heal s
Action should be stopped so a new healing should require me to press 3 again.

Healing through walls and floors is extremely ha dy bjt feels very broken. You snipe someone on a rooftop, and while holding that position you see their corpse disappear and they re-emerge from the stairs to shoot you again. I didn't have a chance to shoot their rescuer.

[manic pasture]

I feel like until smokes get fixed properly it’s a necessary evil

I always wanna smoke to revive but half the time the smoke literally just doesn’t do shit so I’d rather keep the janky through the wall revive than constantly die because our only means of obscurement are whack af

[junior cedar]

I doubt even properly working smokes would change much. Once someone dies, you know where their body is anyway so you can still shoot in the general direction. I think that individual constructions kits to deploy cover without depending on squad points are what would really let revives be less of a suicide mission.

[high raven]

I agree with this

CSGO/Siege style smokes would work. Not aure how those work exactly, but they do something different from the typical sprite cards.

[candid pike]

Also you can ping through smokes to mark enemies and shoot the ping, so even if smokes did work you can still easily be killed through them.

[pliant vortex]

The red ping markers are so inconsistent though, I would imagine it’s very rare that actually works

[candid pike]

Fine by me, 1 less person will kill me through smokes (:

[floral jasper]

make the self heal apply at the same rate it does while the box is on the ground, while keeping healing others to what it is now.

[chilly night]

don't steal my ideas sir

[spiral raptor]

So if anyone doesn't know

the medkit on the ground allows healing + reloading your gun at the same time

[chilly night]

You can also load and pickup mags at the same time

And reload and get ammo at the same time

[spiral raptor]

Well you get what I mean lost

if you aren't move tossing your medkit on the ground may be faster than individually healing than reloading or vice versa (since I keep finding the medics on the ground defenseless)

[chilly night]

I'm saying the actions extend to more than just the medkit too. I wonder if you can do multiple at the same time

[spiral raptor]

some tips & tricks for medkit use
if possible toss it down on the ground & you can heal while reloading & also heal while healing to get even more heals when stationary

[bright smelt]

With self bandage speed buff coming soon, I think the medkit bag act similar to ammo box but for bandage seem like better idea.
Why spend 5 sec to heal one person when you can drop medkit and let them grab bandage and heal themselves.
Also give points for bandage resupply similar to ammo box.

[spring gulch]

The specification that allows medics to self-heal using medikits is one of the reasons why medics have unbalanced power
Medics should be allowed to heal with bandages just like any other soldier, to prevent them from being able to heal infinitely

Instead, the Medikit should be replaced with an AED for rapid and unlimited resuscitation
Just like in Battlefield

[alpine burrow]

Some ideas:
1.) What if the medics could heal themselves with the medkits but only if they throw it in the ground similar to how supports can only resupply themselves by throwing the ammo box on the ground? I feel like this could be a good compromise as it maintains the ability for medics to heal themselves while also giving the limited number of medkits a purpose. Medics would only be able to heal themselves if they stay near a previously thrown down medkit or still have personal medkits remaining. This may also incentivize medics to stay in groups as there would be more thrown medkits in groups as well as less potential for fast healing in flanks and similar solo situations.
2.) Splitting the medkit functions into a large medic bag and small medic pack, the difference being the large one would act as the aforementioned med pack (unlimited healing for teammates, healing for self when thrown down, possibly faster heal speed?) and the small one would be able to self-heal as usual but with slower healing, a health cap (around 60-80% hp) and maybe limited usage (like the medic pack is only able to heal a total amount of hp before its consumed). This could act as a separate compromise that maintains certain mechanics, but splits them off into different items so the choice to maintain those mechanics is up to the player. Aggressive combat medics who frequently veer off from groups could use the small medic pack to keep themselves alive at least for one or two extra engagements, while the more passive healing-focused medics can stay with groups and do large amounts of healing with the large medic bag. It may also be useful to remove bandages from the medic class inventory to avoid over healing with the small medpack.
3.) put the medkit in the same category as the bandages (for the medic class). Medics would have to choose between reviving teammates and healing them. perhaps give medics a seperate model for whichever they choose so other plays have visual feedback.

[floral jasper]

medic box like battlefield, or no box self heal unless thrown, using bandages instead.

[pliant vortex]

Why would this be needed? Medic healing is already only barely superior to that of the other classes

this reads like a general nerf

having to choose between bandaging and healing is terrible though. You cannot survive anything without bandages

If they chose the bandages they'd be a worse assault in every way, if they chose the medkit they'd be useless at surviving and supporting.

making a small medkit that is weaker than the current one AND caps at 80% just makes it a worse alternative to bandages as well.

medics need better healing to other classes, it's the only thing the class has over others.

[floral jasper]

just let them heal by bandages or by a thrown box instead of the unlimited one they got now.

[maiden bay]

agreed. medkit for team healing and positioning. bandages for self heal on the move. its an extremely simple balancing design. i dont understand why that is unreasonable unless you actively use the medkit to heal yourself on the move. just use a bandage like the rest of the classes. the comparisons between assualt and medic should really stop too; there should barely be anything to compare the two. that's the entire point.