Speaking of which, thinking about ways in which the APC could be more useful and paralleling PS2's Sunderer... what if it would get X amount of "supplies" which allow anyone team-wide to spawn on it anywhere on the map? This might finally provide an incentive for randos to look out for their vehicles and also give us a reason to drive into battle.
#BTR82 / LAV25A1 - Feedback
lime sandal
Some balancing/QoL would of course involve disabling while in combat and also letting the driver toggle it on/off so they don't get randos consuming the supplies while they're driving somewhere important. And naturally the driver would be rewarded for each spawn on them.
jagged spade
I think it would be better if active APCs were team spawns just in general, no limit. give a limit to the more plentiful and cheaper transports like the trucks and quads.
pallid flare
It's far from "extremely" good it that situation. It's good, yes, but still relies on inf to do the most work, because you can't just go cap the point by yourself.
And this is basically what people consider spawn camping, so yeah
pallid flare
Speaking of which, thinking about ways in which the APC could be more useful and...
Not a bad idea but it pushes vehicle that is clearly IFV to a spawn beacon role, not a combat role.
LAV's needs buffs to make them more viable in combat. While spwan vehicle is very good concept for an different vehicle
jagged spade
having them be transports and a beacon would actually give them a niche over "worse tank".
pallid flare
Well, true, but it would be a biring niche
jagged spade
its niche right now is "worse tank that hides in the backline trying to snipe"
pallid flare
It wouldn't work as a transport, just like it doesn't work in BF/Squad (yes, poeple rarely use APC's/IFV's in squad as a transports, they prefere logis for some reason)
Being spanw beacon would work tho
jagged spade
giving it literally any purpose would be an upgrade
pallid flare
giving it literally any purpose would be an upgrade
Being a "worse tank" is a purpose
jagged spade
It wouldn't work as a transport, just like it doesn't work in BF/Squad (yes, poe...
because they don't die that often. so you get one ride and it either dies or goes back to repair/rearm. so when you die you get a truck
pallid flare
Look at how BF4 did that, IFV'S were worse tanks, yet still very capable, specialized innengaging infantry than other vehicles
jagged spade
Being a "worse tank" is a purpose
not in this game, other than to take up space and give out points
pallid flare
BF4 managed to make IFV's work as a worse tank, like it works IRL, especially when you make them more avalibe, like BBR does.
jagged spade
BF has alot of sensors and abilty to track hostiles(not to mention smaller games in general)
pallid flare
LAV's just suck at being IFV to being with, so they seem useless, when they could fit that role easily
jagged spade
the gun was great, but there were also non-LOS threats that its only real defense was smoke.
just give us the proper gun elevation so it can be AA again
this fucking 20 degree elevation is shit
pallid flare
But forcing them to be a focused on troop transport is just idiotic, because no one would use them as such. Helicopters exists, squad spawning exists, dozens of jeeps exists. RCB was supposed to be a tropp transport, and how does it ended?
jagged spade
(speaking of, the reason its so shit is that chopper pilots complained that they were getting shot down to fast)
squad spawning in general just needs to go
a moving spawn point is not technically transport
you move close and then all the people spawning will spawn on it since its close to where they died
without squad spawning its a tried and true mechanic
pallid flare
That may very well work, but I would prefere seeing LAV's being competent at thier main job first
No more one shots, some more HP, better accuracy, any AP capabilities, coax/second gunner
jagged spade
just more accurate gun would be fine for now because of the lack of threats.
the one shot is more because Oki decided raw hp was a great design choice for damage
pallid flare
the one shot is more because Oki decided raw hp was a great design choice for da...
It is, if done right. BF did that right, everyone liked Bf4
Oki just decided that vehicle players shouldn't have fun
jagged spade
bf4 did it right because there was a multitude of ways to avoid the damage, a multitude of other ways to damage all meant that while it did High damage it wasn't that much of its total health, with the vehicle itself having a multitude of sensors. spotting and a minimap also mattered. the proper driving physics also helped alot
lime sandal
Look at how BF4 did that, IFV'S were worse tanks, yet still very capable, specia...
Never played it, do you have some clips showcasing that?
lime sandal
a moving spawn point is not technically transport
And yes, you can consider a transport in terms of interpretation of the game mechanics (i.e. soldiers are teleporting into the APC because they were transported from somewhere "off camera") but it is true that moving around the map is not a very relevant ability in BBR mainly due to how mobile infantry is and how small maps are, so only helis which are extremely fast offer a significant advantage.
And also, with the removal of squad spawning that I think we all support here, this would ideally spread fights out a bit more over the whole map, such that you're less likely to be able to take long drives through the empty chunks of map between clusterfucks.
pallid flare
Never played it, do you have some clips showcasing that?
Just search on YT, there is some good BF4 ifv/LAV content there, as well as some guides if you are interested
jagged spade
And yes, you can consider a transport in terms of interpretation of the game mec...
yes but choppers are just one thing, I want them to be a spawn point as well. the helicopters for somewhere away from the main fighting area, the apcs for near
I don't know about having the LB be an option since we get so damn many on some maps
mellow quail
I tend to disagree with Drzewny's "APC WEAK," but playing in 127 recently I've realized my playstyle naturally compensates for it because of my experience with Planetside 2.
Always looking around, trying to stay near friendly inf. or pick low population fights, focusing on good positioning and mobility to protect me.
It tends to result in much slower games than when I play inf, but comparable or slightly less kills overall (with only a few deaths). This probably isn't fun or viable to most people.
The solution imo is still small scale, any buff to APC needs to begin with removing the absurd loss of control that comes with being hit by an RPG and removal of the tandem's ability to 1shot.
@ the troop transport thing.
It's very fun to act as a hardened spawn beacon for your squad. I've gotten pretty big transport scores just from sorta being near the fights my mates are at.
jagged spade
making tandem have less true damage, and give it a multiplier based on an armor class would be far better. lower total raw damage for HEAT and tandem so they are equal and give them different multipliers versus the different armor classes of vehicles
mellow quail
Tandem should do like 75%, maybe only 51% at most.
jagged spade
tandem should just hit like heat, but hit the tank harder with a multiplier
instantly taking away oneshot capability on the apc, but allowing it to still kill tanks slightly better than heat
pallid flare
I tend to disagree with Drzewny's "APC WEAK," but playing in 127 recently I've r...
That's totally resonable take, but honestly, as a PS2/BF/Squad player, I just find LAV's weak. Like really weak. They can't fulfill thier role of IFV, close support of infantry, they suck at transport, they are less survivable than helicopters, BH takes 4 HEAT, APC takes 3. They are incredibly inaccurate, they are lacking on medium range, due to poor accuracy, they cannot keep up with the amount of enemies they need to face on 127v127. Thier only good points is ability to swim and good top seppd. Maneuverability sucks very much tho.
They aren't fun to play with, they aren't fun to learn how to play. A lot of players with no experience just die in 3 min max. It took me 2k kills to get them right, as a bf4 vehicle whore.
They struggle to contribute and pull theier weight.
I would agree that they aren't weak if we didn't had 127v127, but that's a flagship gamemode, and they just suck there
jagged spade
at this point its like support mains wanting buffs. Give us a more accurate gun, the fucking bare minimum, and we can be at least a tiny bit happy.
mellow quail
That's totally resonable take, but honestly, as a PS2/BF/Squad player, I just fi...
True enough. I'm open at this point to even more survivability, especially since you point out the 4 vs 3 HEAT thing. Actually crazy.
Inexperienced people will not have a good time.
That and main gun velocity are the next steps after the needed QOL imo.
pallid flare
This may be wierd comming from someone who basically only complains about vehicles (rightfully so) but APC velocity is all right. I can see why it is as it is, and I can see why it shouldn’t be increased.
Better velocity would allow you for more accurate and effective engaging targets far away, which is alredy quite easy due to splash. It also would allow you to easier hit helis, which also is alredy easy.
Current velocity is in a spot that requires you to lear how to lead your shots, while still allowing you to be effective at long range, if you are skilled enough.
Accuracy through is just pure RNG, which is annoying as fuck, and needs to be improved at least to RCB standard.
I would definitely take a buff to it, but I can see why it could not get it, and there are more important changes that needs to be added
latent hound
Please increase the Accuracy of BTR/LAV because it is really hard to get kills any further than CQB
pallid flare
Please increase the Accuracy of BTR/LAV because it is really hard to get kills a...
It's easy to kill at long ranges too, just correct for range and spam, splash will do the rest. Not ammo efficient but oh well
The problem is at mid range, especially when spalsh can be triggered
Then you just miss 50% of the time
raw pivot
Only thing I want fixed with btr and lav is physics when getting hit by rpgs or other apcs
jagged spade
its like the support "can resupply people with box"
bare minimum but we don't get anything so its an amazing buff
raw pivot
Right now Im able to use the "apcs" pretty well. The biggest issue I face is that when you get hit by an rpg once, there's a very low chance you're able to make it out of that situation for a variety of reasons
pallid flare
Right now Im able to use the "apcs" pretty well. The biggest issue I face is tha...
'pretty well'
How well we are talking about?
jagged spade
we both agreed with him?
raw pivot
I wouldn't care about any other change to the apcs if the physics of them wasn't fixed
bold dew
Increase the ammo count or reload time of the IFV or give it some counter measures like smokes
hoary solar
Are we going to have guns mounted on the sides and the main gun of the RCB boats?
plain bone
would be interesting
hoary solar
would be interesting
that would be great because BTR dominates on both ground and sea which makes the RCB feel useless
light merlin
I wouldn't describe its performance as dominant by any means.
hoary solar
I wouldn't describe its performance as dominant by any means.
It currently leads as the most prominent vehicle in the game.
plain bone
It currently leads as the most prominent vehicle in the game.
so might as well ask the why
serene citrus
ok so
my thoughts on this
-the btr should have 4 imagery modes. thermal, nv, black/white (standard) and full color as each would come with its own benefits/downsides.
ammo capacity needs to be a belt rather than magazines, should also have a coax for driver/minigun position on turret for a second crew member. increase the overall damage of the main gun by a small amount. give the lav/btr a bigger deceleration/acceleration factor, as it currently stands, controlling it is a bit wonky. slower accel, bigger decel.
should also have smokescreen like tanks.
btr also has wonky physics when fighting other btr/lav's and goes speen. fix that lol.
also increase the muzzle velocity of the fired rounds, the lav sucks for anything long distance.
serene citrus
as for its upsides, it's a beast versus helicopter and really good at infantry fighting on some maps. you hit a shot just right and you take down any heli in a shot or two via the tail rotor. it's also great for knocking down buildings in infantry combat. it's also the counter to the rcb90.
nocturne owl
ok so
my thoughts on this
-the btr should have 4 imagery modes. thermal, nv, bl...
increase velocity? hello tank sniping
pallid flare
increase velocity? hello tank sniping
Well, the velocity and spread make it literally gambling to shoot at people above ~200m. Even splash doesn't do enough to cope with that.
serene citrus
another idea i think would be cool (thinking back to bf4 here) is putting armored vehicles in your loadout that would apply when you got in the vehicle
(anyone who played bf4 knows which ui i'm talking about)
there should be camos for tanks/helis/rcb90s/armed humvees and varied equipment loadouts (maybe stuff like swapping coax for a grenade launcher, also adding the flechette ammo type to the btr/lav, different kinds of smokescreens to counter different imagery on opposing armor (IR smoke, thermal smokescreen)
but tldr; vehicle loadouts should be considered and added to your character loadout ui
also iirc the combat boat in bf4 (equivalent to the rcb90) had side mounted machine guns for crew and not just the main cannon
that should be a thing
lapis locust
flat imp
just make the gun a gunner and i want the damn ass spotlight to work >:D
jagged spade
people don't want the IR spotlight though
flat imp
well either way armor needs lights
light merlin
APC and tank at least needs to be able to use its headlights like how the Humvee and atv have headlights.
Cannon could use either more damage (2HK splash, 1HK direct impact), belt and reserve capacity, or more accuracy. Either one will vastly improve its abilities.
flat imp
5% tighter accuracy, damage is honestly fine, there are reports from ukraine of body armor stopping the btr 20mm rounds occasionally
not every round should be explosive, they do have mixed belts
jagged spade
accuracy and ammo are the big things I think
amount of shots to kill goes way down if they actually go where I want them and not a sector to the side
long ass reload for such a small amount of ammo is also very shit.
though that might also be becasue of how inaccurate it is, so we need more ammo to do the same shit.
flat imp
well apparently the btr gun is supposed to be dual feed, so it has 2 belts to reload but also 2 different ammo types. reload time seems on par for something like that, and the "effective range" on a "soft target" is about 3 km
so buff accuracy, but leave the reload as is
damage is a reliable 3 shot which is annoying but fair i guess
also btr 82 has thermal optics
jagged spade
the A model does.
flat imp
the A has modern thermals, the AM is retrofitted with last gen thermal
jagged spade
different packages, different capabilities.
flat imp
Ye but same basic components, welded hatches and such
jagged spade
internals and most mechanisms are different.
flat imp
Same with all 9 variants of the Abrams, but it's still an Abrams
jagged spade
there is only 4.
5 if you count the prototype.
and between the abrams, its gun, and armor for all variats. only the a2 got alot of IFF/BluFor tracking systems and new thermals.
meanwhile the 82 basically only has the Hull be the same.
flat imp
The internals do not change enough in my eyes to make them different vehicles though
jagged spade
literally everything inside of them is changed
light merlin
I think the APC would be greatly improved by doubling the clip capacity and reserve capacity.
It’s an autocannon. Let it lay down the steel.