RCB90 - Feedback

[merry nova]

Please keep it on topic, and civil, we want serious feedback

• No gifs
• No 'skill issue'

[whole oracle]

for now it's just APC locked to water only, mediocre vehicle with low utility

[warm sun]

Feels fairly useful when it can be useful, gun acts as a decent anti helicopter weapon when it can land hits in addition to being fairly durable vs more small arms up to APCs (unsure on rpgs)

[rich patio]

Few thoughts about RCB-90

• I don't understand the splitting of the driver and the gunner. Both tanks and APC, more powerful vehicles, don't have this feature. It was supposed to be in Hardcore. Most players aren't expecting, accustomed to or just don't want that level of cooperation, like is needed to use this boat properly. It’s hard to find players that want to be designated drivers because it’s not appealing in comparison to being a gunner, and even with drivers often communication is hard or impossible. Not every player uses voice chat, and even if so, it may be problematic on servers like EU or JP due to players from many countries speaking different languages. It should be controlled by one player like in BF4, most players are accustomed to that version of the vehicle and there is no need to reinvent the wheel.
• The boat kind of doesn't have a purpose right now. It's outperformed in offensive roles by APCs and Tanks, especially when APC also can swim. Helicopters are much better at transporting players, much more flexible too. Just like with APCs, the presence of helicopters and spawn systems make them obsolete as transport vehicles.
• The boat definitely has too low HP. It's vulnerable to small arms fire, making just shooting at it with AR a viable way to deal damage. All vehicles: helicopters, APC and Tanks can destroy it faster than a boat can destroy them, or even run away from them(example of Wine Paradise and it's very good line of sight for tanks from points F and A). Making it resistant to small arms fire would be preferable, otherwise an increase in HP by three times may be needed.

• Its damage is underwhelming, much worse than that of APC, the same as splash. It should be increased to the APC level to allow the boat to deal with threats in any meaningful manner. Its accuracy is perfectly balanced, accurate enough to hit targets on reasonable ranges while not being a laser beam. Boat accuracy should be implemented in APC. Ammunition count is good, though magazine size and reload time needs tweaks, just like in APC. It’s very limiting, and there is no backup weapon like coaxial machine gun, even though it is modeled.
• Gun elevation of around 20° makes it impossible to engage helicopters that hover above the boat, making such encounters very one sided. Good helicopter pilot will keep himself above the vehicle, outside of the gunner's line of sight easily. It should be increased to 45°, but preferably up to 60°.
• The zoom of 2x is definitely not enough given that the boat is a naval vehicle and engages its targets from the water, meaning it’s always away from them due to map layout. Extremely often targets will be 200-400m away, making zoom of 2x just not enough. Zoom 5x or 6x would be much better.
• The vehicle has great speed and mobility, it is undeniable. But it comes with its own drawbacks, it's extremely not maneuverable. Entering tunnels on MultuIsland is extremely annoying and navigating them also isn’t the best experience. Increasing it’s maneuverability or adding the option to slow down to 50% while holding shift would be welcomed addition, and it’s certainly very needed.
  I really like the idea of this vehicle and I genuinely can’t wait for its full implementation. I greatly enjoyed it in BF4, and naval gameplay is very rarely found in FPS game

[open locust]

I plus-1 the above bullet points regarding the damage, elevation, and zoom of the gun as well as the poor maneuverability and the unnecessary splitting of the driver and gunner. I also believe making it impervious to small-arms fire, just as the tank and APC are, would be a better solution than a simple health increase.

additionally, driver and F2 passenger need to be swapped. its very easy to think the interior is extremely unfinished, but the seats are actually just swapped around the wrong way

(post scriptum; I generally agree with all of what Drew said. The things I pointed out are simply what I believe to be the most crucial points to consider at the moment as far as getting the boat to a more balanced place.)

[open locust]

Its not a vehicle I get to use much due to the severe lack of map variety up until the most recent update so Im not sure where the disembark point is for passengers currently, but it should be moved to be directly in front of the boat if that isnt where it already is, so that the driver can just gently beach the front of the boat and people can quickly disembark, and the driver just backs out and scurries away. Would also be neat if, perhaps just one or perhaps a minimum of two people on the outside of the boat can push the boat after disembarking to aid the drivers backwards acceleration. Combine with a much tighter turning radius, this would allow the boat to be much more useful as troop transport as it wouldnt be so much of a sitting duck when people are disembarking (not to mention how easily it just gets completely stuck).

I also think it could do with a higher damage reduction with the windows. It is much slower-moving and much closer to potential enemies than a transport heli, and has to essentially come to a full stop when acting as a good transport (so that you arent just dumping your passengers into the water where they get massacred)

[spark verge]

The RCB-90 is actually very powerful against the transport helicopter because they are so damn fast. If you go in a straight line at full speed they will eventually outrun the chasing helicopter and get elevation on them. This is a very interesting vehicle and a great addition to the game.
However having some moron spawn into the driver seat and immediatly beach himself 3 seconds later is actually a huge problem too.

[spark verge]

The boat has incredible HP. You are wrong about this one.

[spark verge]

60 degrees is pretty much a verticle shot. No way!

I also noticed that F2 can fire RPGs out of the window in tghe cockpit. Quite funny.

[rich patio]

500, same as RHIB, according to game files

[rich patio]

It's far from "pretty much a vertical". It's 2/3 which is definitely not there yet. And it is very needed, unless it gets H vehicles HP not L one

[spark verge]

Don't
Trust
Numbers

It takes far more bullets to destroy the Attack boat then it does the rib boat.

[spark verge]

It's verticle because the Boat can just move forward for about 3 secondsd and then it has full coverage of it's previous blind spots. Having forught against APCs who use the hill for additional elevation they are extreamly dangerous and give you very little chance to get behind/above them since it pretty much invalidates the 200m height cap.

[rich patio]

The game is build on one and zeros. The whole thing runs on numbers, everything is numbers, HP, DMG, drop offs, speed, movements etc

Saying don't trust numbers is like saying "government is behind 9/11" or "piramids were build by aliens" or stating that earth is flat

[spark verge]

Mossad did 9/11 to give the Zionist puppet states of Weimar America a casusbelli to destroy Iraq/Saddam who moved away from debt slavery like Murmar Giddafi and Big H did. The pyrimids were build using ancient cement cast into blocks with timber. The awnser to wheather or not the earth is flat lies beyond the great icewalls of Antarctica.

The Attack boat takes far more bullets to kill then the Rib boat.

[rich patio]

It maybe does, but stats say that HP is the same. There may be dmg resistance included that we don't know of. Or a bug.

[spark verge]

Prehaps it has an armor value. I know that when you hit it with a heat rocket it will say 25+ vehicle damage yet I'm pretty sure you can 1 shot a rib boat with 1 heat rocket.

[rich patio]

That would mean it has 2400 L vehicles HP, because it definitely isn't H vehicles HP

Then its 4 shot for Heat and one shot for tandem. BUT, it also should be 2 shot for AP round

But it is 3 shot for AP round

[topaz rune]

Too easy to beach on sandbars, and there's an annoying bug that makes it bounce up and down in a glitchy way

[vast terrace]

This thing's cannon should be a 1 hit kill against infantry.

[rich patio]

Isn't it too much?

[vast terrace]

Def Too much for something like an ifv but not for something like a gunboat, maybe it could only do 112 damage so it's only a 1 hit kill against light and no armor targets.

[warm sun]

might as well start

112 is the light armor helmet health

So note the fact that would be a headshot & you get the idea

unsure on how much light chest has but if I recall it is like 25? (correct me if I am wrong)

[vast terrace]

I thought that the chestplate was 12 as well? I may be mistaken though.

[raw wren]

I would much rather get the M7 instead of a one hit cannon with all the other restrictions that would come along with keeping it balanced.

It's not like the anti-vehicle damage part is meaningful, you lose against APCs and tanks every single time anyway.

[topaz rune]

Direct hits should be ohk imo

It's an explosive 30mm bullet

[open locust]

not a bad shout to be honest. the gun is comically inaccurate and has laughable velocity. a direct hit is hard. nay, its not even hard, its just literally a total lottery. actual direct hits would not be common at all, so it might not be as oppressive as it sounds in theory for those direct hits to 1stk

[vast terrace]

M7?

[raw wren]

The remote controlled machine gun some Humvees get. It's insanely good against infantry, plus you get to fire all 400 bullets without stopping, no reloading every 20 shots silliness.

[vast terrace]

Driver should get M7, gunner should get autocannon, or that but reversed.
Also, autocannon should have 30 or 40 rd belts

[raw wren]

The M7 is seriously insane against infantry tho. Letting it also have antivehicle capabilities feels over the top. I would like it to have open seats in the last two positions, then you could bring a couple of engis along if you want to hunt vehicles around the coast. Actually even a single guy could just drive then switch seats and pull off some nasty unexpected tandems from the flanks.

[open locust]

i feel like letting the front-most porthole windows be shot out of by whoever is in there would be a bit more on-theme. perhaps with a mechanic for being able to request swapping seats with someone in the event the vehicle is full, you could get two supports on those windows able to put down some fire while everyone else gets off the boat first, or gently harass people from afar (or take out the stupid RHIBs that can for some reason pose some sort of threat to this boat)

it would also be rather difficult to aim an RPG on a boat with how unsteady it is while in motion, so actual vehicle-hunting capablities would probably be more lackluster than you imagine, sad as it may be

[raw wren]

I don't think there's any vehicle that can reliably hit shots while on the move. But high damage, low RoF weapons like RPGs work very well for shoot and scoot tactics. By the time the shot lands on the target, you can already be on the move to avoid its retaliation.

[open locust]

cant imagine a boat will be easy to manoeuvre to let those open seats get their stationary aim, even when it has better manoeuvrability than it does now. boats just dont turn so good. i also imagine it would be like candy on haloween for any sniper that can see the boat

[raw wren]

Why would you need to turn tho. Just let the passengers fully spin around their position.

And having the M7 instead of that crap aim autocannon would let you make short work of snipers in turn.

Also since you have the camera and the protected seats with the holes to watch through, you would presumably double check before peeking out.

I think it is adequately risky for the potential pay off and versatility that would be afforded by the platform.

[vast terrace]

The M7's accuracy would be counteracted by the movement of the boat, unless you want to sit still for a bit and become RPG bait.

[vast terrace]

Most high versatility this vehicle could have is counteracted by it being limited to non-shallow water only.

[raw wren]

I've used it more than a handful of times and I can't recall any instance of getting hit by an RPG tbh. Even then, you can tank a few hits no?

Also worth noting that the M7 has enough zoom and accuracy to engage from ranges where you really can comfortably get out of the way of the rocket.

[vast terrace]

Mmm fine.

I just kinda feel like a gpmg is a little underpowered for a big boat like that.

Remote operated .50 cal

[vast terrace]

But you'd have to do shoot an scoot tactics
with a GPMG.

I just feel like that's kinda silly

[raw wren]

The Humvee works pretty much the same tho. In general due to lack of fear/suppression in the game, anything that shoots at you while moving will miss many shots and therefore simply not be a threat.

[vast terrace]

But the humvee can drive to much more strategic places since it's a land vehicle.

[vast terrace]

Actually, this might be a good idea.

[raw wren]

That's more of a map design issue. RCB90 was clearly tacked onto preexisting maps without much thought on what its role should be.

[vast terrace]

Maybe it's role could be as a god of naval flanking, with a heavy autocannon to take out flanking APCs and enough infantry capacity to deliver a significant fighting force to the enemy backline.

[final swan]

Every time I've tried to coordinate with people in it they ignore me and just do dumbass shit or use it like a jetski and abandon it, it sucks LOL. Combine gunner and driver, I have 2x more situational awareness than the average gunner and more tactical awareness than the average driver 👍

[molten plover]

Thing is useless, and bad.

[raw wren]

IMO the current situation with the weapon symmetry results in very boring slugfests where you just stand there holding LMB at each other.

Perhaps it could get an ATGM (basically a mounted tandem) so it can hunt water APCs, but as those are slower projectiles, it would need to close the distance, while the APC can try to defend with its autocannon. Then you get a bit more of an interesting dynamic in these encounters.

[midnight bear]

Reason they split driver and gunner is to prevent RCB from camping in the water and spamming shots from super far away.

We already have an APC naval issue on maps such as Wakistan, so merging RCB driver and gunner would likely cause the same thing but even worse.

RCB's are also super fast, I can't imagine having to deal with one that's like 300m away.

[rich patio]

It literally doesn't change that or even incentivese that

If someone is using a boat, it's for camping, because any sort of aggresive gameplay is impossible unless you have designated driver

But you can still one man it when camping

So

Yeah

Devs don't know what they are doing with it

[rich patio]

That's only map problem

Gutting vehicles gameolay ans functionality to compensate for bad map design is stupid and unfair