T90 / M1Abrams - Feedback

[orchid dagger]

Please keep it on topic, and civil, we want serious feedback

• No gifs
• No 'skill issue'

[mighty igloo]

Spotter seat needs the range finder given a darker background to help make it stand out against a brighter background

[royal notch]

Spotter seat needs to be removed

It's complicated, but I can explain

[mighty igloo]

well I would appericate it if you would

[royal notch]

Right now, it doesn't serve it's purpose 99% of the time. Its very powerful, but also empty feature. To use it correctly, you need a person that can play the game, and can communicate with you fluently, which is aledy hard to find on EU and ASIA servers. Then, the commander sight gameplay is just really boring, and not incentivising to a player, you basically sit there and click 1 or 2 to make static 2d markers, which aren't really usefull, unless someone gives you more info, for example, what it is, how far, if its behind cover, etc. Marker alone doesn't give you enough info to react/prioritise it correctly, and if spammed, it is a distraction.
So basically a very important feature is not used, because it's boring, and when used, requires communication level possible only with premades. You can happen to find someone competent you can communicate with in game, but that's extremely rare, rare enough to make this feature useless in practice.

Giving driver and MG gunner thermal, time limited like FLIR scope, gives you more flexibility, and limits it use, unlike F2 seat. It also removes 3 player from the tank, which is a nerf, because otherwise 2 players could be repairing at the same time, or a player can repair tank when both driver and MG gunner are inside.

[mighty igloo]

Will make one note
I have jumped in the spotter seat a good few times with randoms to pretty nice effect (I spot the next targets for them as they engage the current one, otherwise help them weave their shots in and such) , I do agree it can be boring be it , it also can be pretty fun in a different way (I enjoy helping too much ya can say)

So I do disagree it requires premades , it helps for certain but by no means a requirement unless the two randoms turned off their voice chat entirely

[royal notch]

It requires premades if you want consistency. Randoms can work well with you, but it's very, very rare

[mighty igloo]

in my experience not rare per say, most tend to give a ear when I spot for them

[royal notch]

When you are the spotter, yeah

When you are the driver and need the spotter, good luck

[mighty igloo]

I will say that may be due to how unrewarding the xp can be at times

the assists you get seem,inconsisent

[royal notch]

Yeah, you are given only 200xp per kill. that means you don't get kills for stats, no assists for vehicles (like everyone else, we need assists for vehicles)

So xp is bad and your scoreboard is empty

But giving more XP basically make it XP farm, and does not create incentives to use it

[mighty igloo]

in a sense I suppose, keep in mind I said the xp you get is inconsistent

at least in my experience I have noted various times when I didn't get XP after a target died

[midnight plover]

The one real problem you have mentioned is marker spam which could be fixed with a button for the driver to clear them. It's extremely powerful if used properly because it has the fastest turn speed and a good spotter will not just mark shit, they will jump out and deal with it personally if necessary.

The real problem that keeps people sitting inside is that you can't reserve seats, so they don't want to risk some other rando getting in after they jump out.

[upbeat ravine]

Other vehicles like quads and humvees should not be able to push you away as if you were ragdoll

And it should be able to destroy both of the above if ran over them

Also shell switching needs some speed buff, takes way too long

I also agree with Drew's feedback about the spotter seat

[midnight plover]

Minor nuisance: the coax MG's current clip does not get refilled when going to base.

Also, what's the deal with smoke cooldown being so high. The number of charges are already limited.

It's kinda pointless to deploy a cloud of smoke that is approximately as wide as the thing it's supposed to conceal, so at least being able to drop them in quick succession would allow one to make a screen.

[hushed estuary]

I absolutely hate the idea of the driver and gunner having thermal vision. People will just abuse it and flicker it on and off like mad. Makes for disoreinting gameplay if you want to share a video with others.

[royal notch]

Not a good argument against but I see your point

[weary aurora]

Needs stabiliser for the RWS

And higher camera positioning, to allow for better gun depression, so your vision isnt obstructed by the roof of the tank.

[midnight plover]

I don't see the point at all. Main gun and MG already get very good zoom levels to spot stuff in the direction they are looking at. A good commander should be using the IR and increased turn speed to be on the lookout for flankers. Incentivizing the guns to be combing the horizon for some tiny little target with IR is just going to make them more likely to get C4'd from the back.

[midnight plover]

Discussion regarding smoke in BTR82 thread made me think about limited utility of current smoke implementation. If APC gets smoke launcher as suggested, to keep things different tank could get a smoke "shotgun" that fire in the direction of the front.

IMO this would make it very useful for retreats, as this lets you keep your front armor facing the enemy while your turret looks back in the direction you actually want to drive in.

[royal notch]

There is no point in any smoke related debate if we don't assume it being proper some screen. Oki stole a lot from Squad, he can stole this too

[mighty igloo]

so similar to some War thunder smoke screens (AKA just launches infront of the turret's facing a wall of smoke)

[midnight plover]

Yeah I suppose, haven't played it but it just seems to be the way most tanks work these days anyway.

[hushed estuary]

Getting a hit for 10+ while the tank is ON FIRE drives me bonkers.

[royal notch]

"On fire" threashold is around 20-25%, so 1200-1500 hp. Heat deals 600 from the front. So yeah, cmose enough but still not there

[orchid dagger]

T90 / M1Abrams - Feedback

[mighty igloo]

danke @orchid dagger

[fallen raven]

Imo both should be distinct in stats and use, to vaguely mimic their irl counterparts so that we avoid complete and total blandness when it comes to vehicle combat or just general use (ie. trans)

[fickle smelt]

definitely some faction differentiation would be nice

[royal notch]

That's totally pointles and overall bad idea

Unless you go full assymetry like Squad does

Otherwise they should be as simmilar as possible, for ease of understanding of their mechanics and fair gameplay

[fallen raven]

You're not gonna have a lot of game to play after a while, without dynamics existing its just a filler for a game that already has massive diversity in infantry combat..

[royal notch]

BF does symmetrical gameplay for more than decade, with BFv being only exeption

If you want more dynamic, then vehicle customisation is a way to go

Because it gives you more options to play with, but still keeps overall symmetry. You are not forced to choose one thing.

[fallen raven]

BF is the opposite of BB, its arcade to its core and has very little to do with depicting real life aspects of weapons or combat.. We already have highly realistic depictions of weapons with in depth stats so why not give the vehicles some more personality

Factions are pointless right now anyway, they're just placeholders for flags on your character, we can at least differentiate a bit this way

Can also inspire some brain usage and different approaches to situations instead of it being copy pasted no matter what you drive or use

[fallen raven]

I also support this

[royal notch]

BBR also is arcade and only cosplays as a realistic shooter. BBR wears cheap cosplay from wish, while being BF copy, mostly

[royal notch]

Yeah, that would be nice

[unreal yoke]

so first of all, gunner needs thermal

second of all MG gunners need to be merged with spotter

while still retaining the thermal capability

third please fucking fix the reticle, you can't aim with it

[pale oriole]

Only complaint I have with tanks is with the CROWS (machine gun) position. Because your pov is offset from the gun itself, if the driver decides to go hull-down, 90% of your vision gets blocked by the turret roof (Abrams has a hatch right in front and I believe it’s the same on the T-90). So if the driver decides to straddle an incline, you’re basically useless

[minor rose]

The spotter seat should be merged with the CROW (3rd seat) gunner. But, not able to shoot wile thermal is active. It should be a toggle between the gun and thermal camera (that should also have a range finder and notches (similar to a snipers scope) to aid the driver with long range targets.
The spotting should be changes slightly aswell, the driver should have a keybind to remove all pings on screen. Pings should have a sound que (toggle-able to prevent trolls or if others find it annoying) thats different for each type of ping. This helps players who can't/don't have voice comms to call out to the driver. This should also be directional.
Drivers MG doesn't refill remaining ammo in gun while refilling at a station.
Drivers MG should have the magazine increased to 50. (Assuming reloading/changing between HEAT/AP isn't changed) you can have an incredible down time if you are reloading the main cannon and have a few engineers running at you throwing c4.

This is more of a mechanic for the refill/repair stations.

Stations should spawn on flags in conquest. BUT, similar to Isle there should be a cool down that starts somewhere between 45-30 seconds before repairing or refilling begins. This should also be slightly slower than current rates are.
But, we should increase the rate that refill/repair stations have in a safe zone. Slightly.
Current meta is to sit near spawn/safe zones/boarders. It's very easy to get c4'd/rocketed by a few somewhat organized players. Making it frustrating to not only drive feeling like you can't help push. And annoying to players feeling like tanks just camp safespots.
The recent change to repairing up to 98% should help encourage more team work and vehicle repairing. But, there's very little reward for doing so and even few players who will actually risk themselves to help you in a vehicle. An increase I'm given XP maybe help encourage more repairs from teammates. Or even an ability to ping to engineers asking for help.
This all adds up to Drivers playing very defensive, lots of vehicle camping, players complaining in chat about tanks sitting so far back and it's a frustrating cycle that feeds into itself. With a few changes I think we could make tanks/vehicles overall more useful for pushing objectives.

[midnight plover]

If you want to toggle thermal on the MG and not be able to shoot as tradeoff, there's already a way to do it and it's by using the seat you want to remove. And there's no combat scenario (i.e. something that is not sitting on a hill farming people from 400m away) where using thermals will achieve anything other than showing you how you're surrounded by more people than you can shoot at. Dropping a crew member and the possibility of 360° situational awareness for a marginal increase in the ability to find things on your screen is a huge nerf.

Either way, no amount of changes to the tank short of jetpacks and a force field is going to ever make it a viable tool for pushing objectives as long as squad respawning exists.

While squad spawning exists, having so much as a rock within 50m of you will always allow an infinite stream of RPGs and C4 to come out of it faster than you can ever keep it down.

[vocal steppe]

why remove spotter seat? it’s fine as is, just needs a few qol improvements

[rancid pivot]

I'd rather have the option to get a megaswat Godtier Tank Spotter by random instead of removing Tank Spotter entirely just because it's underused.

I really like taking spotter every now and then. It's legit so good if you keep info uncluttered and talk to your Tank driver as well. All my game-long tank streaks were only done with tank spotters present.

[royal notch]

Yeah, that's literally my point

You need to know what to do, and use communication, to use it to its full potential or at all

Which is hard without pre mades

And on servers like EU or ASIA, even harder because language barrier plays a role

Too high requirements to justify it imo,

It's a gimmick at best, and only for those that alredy know how to play

[rancid pivot]

Not really. My point is to keep it because it's better to have an unpopular option than no option at all, while yours is the opposite, which is removing it because it is an unpopular option and thus doesn't need to stay.

Two different arguments.

[royal notch]

If devs would add thermal for driver and MG gunner, then spotter can stay imo

Otherwise I will gladly sacrafice it for thermals

It's not used anyways really

[remote sage]

Before the language problem, there are many non-Japanese players in JP server , and Japanese speakers rarely use Vc.
But if it's clan members and friends, spotters are very effective, and I always have my friends do spotters.

[royal notch]

While in EU you have like, ~38 languages, most european, and then you have players from middle east and north africa. So 50 different languages easily, and not everyone knows english

I suppose SEA have simmilar situation

That's why AUS and NA servers have the most lively vc, because they all sleak english

[dreamy whale]

Hello Battlebit team, keep doing amazing work! however if some of that work could go to an actual health bar while in the vehicle as well as an impact direction notification would be amazing! It really sucks when you start getting hit, can tell you get hit, but can't tell if it came from up, down, left, right, forward or back really sucks. In my opinion, this just leads people to use vehicles as snipers but with much bigger weapons versus actually pushing objectives. Then if they are actually being a part of the frontline and "tanking" damage for soldiers, it might incentivize players to actual support vehicles with repairs and such, even if they aren't directly using them.

[midnight plover]

I play in EU and I regularly get decent spotters. No communication needed, just be a decent tanker and someone will notice and hop on. I do the same when I see a good driver - spot for them and jump out to fight flankers when the need arises.

[royal notch]

I play on EU and I regularly don't get spotters at all, exept as a quick taxi ride.

[fickle smelt]

yea people tend not too spot because it's boring and you don't get kills

[royal notch]

This

Boring gameplay, not rewarding, lack of kills don't tickle your brain in fancy way, lack of ANY incentive to use it

Even with premades, spotter seat if for the last one to join. Basically a losser seat

[mighty igloo]

I would say make it's gunner assists more consisent (I have noted that it just decides to not count a assist or more at times)

[royal notch]

Yeah, it doesn't count assists, it doesn't give anything for destroying vehicles, doesn't give anything for spotting itself, and only tank benefits, not the team, like in bf2042

[mighty igloo]

it does count some assists

which when you & the gunners get on a roll (When it works) it can rack up some points fast

[royal notch]

You don't get points for gunners "assist counts as a kill"

And you should

Also, it should just give you them for spotting or sth

So your scoreboard isn't barren as fuck

[mighty igloo]

you do actually at times

Again it is just incosisent like no tomorrow

AKA I was playing it & gunner when on a roll as stated prior got 2k points in afew seconds due to a HE shell saying hi to a sardine can but next minute was it kept not wanting to yield any gunner assists

[midnight plover]

They also don't get anything if you get a tail rotor and all the assists tied to that

[royal notch]

Tail rotor gives not enough anyways

[midnight plover]

Finally played Oil Fields in a tank server

guess what

humvee packed with engineers is still the most dangerous vehicle in the game

[royal notch]

I know of one such server, and I really enjoy it

Unlimited LoS, no obstacles to drive into every 5 seconds, no stupid ass foliage and crevices with cover for infantry

[midnight plover]

And even it's still a pain in the ass to use a tank because the map is huge, you only get 14 AP shots and you need like 10 just to kill another tank

Meanwhile tandem engies can still multiply like rats and chunk half your health with one rear shot

[royal notch]

Yeah, that's just fucked up

I think i will start calling engis tandem rats

It fits them

[midnight plover]

It's never not funny how if you ever end up in a face to face battle with an APC or tank, jumping out with your tandem and C4 is WAY more effective than trying to use the vehicles' guns XD

[cold junco]

it's kinda really fucking cancer, isn't it?

vehicles are so weak against eachother that the optimal play is to just not use them

if im an APC and i ambush a tank that's on fire and trying to retreat back to his base, i can't do shit, because my shots are made out of cotton candy

and don't even get me started on goofy ass APC dittos, where both of you just randomly swerve out of control and into walls

[royal notch]

One APC round deals 1% of tank hp if hit from the side

Up front it's only 0.5%💀

[midnight plover]

Well you shouldn't be allowed to kill a tank when you're in another vehicle

Obviously vehicles are only there so infantry can farm XP

[royal notch]

Not wrong statement

[unreal yoke]

buff tank v vehicles

[midnight plover]

Tanks and APC vs each other in general

Main interaction should be vehicles hunting each other while infantry just tickle them here and there

Although that would require the devs to not make bad maps worse with a crappy vehicle selection

Like putting a single LB and tank in Waki ffs

This is why I argue for APC to lose AoE and get 100% accuracy + RoF and damage buff

Then it can still provide support to infantry but mainly it can fuck a tank up if caught off guard

And if vehicles were a real threat, tanks would be far more careful about switching off of AP rounds

Instead rn you can just be on HE all day long and if an AP tank shows up you can just be like peace bro and drive away

[royal notch]

Tank have fair dmg against apc's imk. 3 shots while having easily 1000m of range is fair. Heat could be 4 shot tho

To make AP better

[royal notch]

I was joking about buffing APC by replacing 30mm with HMG, but it's bad idea

Annyways, taking away splash dmg would only increase the gap between apc and tank. And it's must be lowered, because APC isn't a consolation prize for those that have too slow ssd to grab a tank

[midnight plover]

Only if you don't buff the APC in return

[royal notch]

buffing APC after taking away it's only reediming factor would be very hard

[midnight plover]

Getting devs on board with buffing the APC without taking away its potential to farm whole squads behind walls seems even harder to me

(sure, you don't actually get to do that often - but that doesn't mean the potential isn't there, and things are always balanced by looking at the upper end of damage they can potentially cause and not their average effectiveness, see LittleBird)

[mighty igloo]

so from what I understand, lucuma is saying remove the AOE but buff the acc along with it's direct damage & fire rate

Sounds like a good idea for at least a different shell type

[royal notch]

For an AP shell yeah, not overall

[midnight plover]

Keep in mind that what you would now have in your hands is essentially a faster firing M110 that can break walls

This sounds already quite effective against infantry to me

Dropping peeking engis for instance, would be far easier with such a gun

[royal notch]

If you hit body shots, which are rare as fuck

Splash is literally a cruth for APC

[midnight plover]

They are atm because the APC is so inaccurate and the the RoF is slow enough to let people dance around the bullets

[royal notch]

and AP can be valuable enough to warrant using it only against vehicles

[mighty igloo]

keep in mind all he said
Faster firerate + 100% acc

[royal notch]

It still takes to much imo

Then you have glorified HMG, it goes against every IFV in games implemented

Splash is good, no need to get rid of that

Just improve acc and give coax

[mighty igloo]

Will say this Mank, not everything that is abnormal is bad lol

[royal notch]

There is a reason most if not all games have splash on APC'S

It just have too much value

Striping splash, no matter how recompansated is just a nerf

Because any other buff would be more impactfull with splash

[midnight plover]

So let me explain my underlying logic. The curves show what the distribution of potential skill across the playerbase.

• Green curve is infantry, the ideal reference against which stuff should presumably be balanced
• Clearly not everyone could go on massive killstreaks with the LB (blue curve), but that tiny fraction of outliers was way above acceptable performance so they got the nerfbat.
• Problem with vehicles is that currently you can in fact achieve 100-0 games in a very limited subset of cases, but that's already on the limit of what the devs consider acceptable.

Hence, dark red is my proposal: remove the stuff that has the potential to result in massive sprees but give us a more consistent experience that allows us to be acceptably effective in most games.

(note that this does not represent actually frequency of the outcomes - because LB is very limited availability, you would see the players at the tail end being overrepresented in games since they would be the ones more likely to grab and stay on the vehicle)

(the same logic can be extended to see why the reluctance to buff ground vehicles might be there)

And I'm not saying my proposals have to be the right way to achieve this either, but they seem sensible to me, given the goal stated above.

One more thing to think about: if the spawn/class system won't be change to make it harder for any random squad to suddenly turn into an infinite rain of tandems, the solution may well be coming up with mechanics that make it so effectiveness does not go up with number of engis.

Quick example: if tanks could activate active protection measures for a given amount of time, it would not matter if you have 1 engi or 10 shooting at you

Then things change from being a pure numbers game into a more strategic use of positioning, baiting, etc.

[royal notch]

I would agree with your curve, BUT, I am convinced that removing splash will not be good idea

Decressing it's radious, yes, if accuracy were to be significantly increased

Total HE ammo also could be decreased if compensated with coax and specialised ammo ( ap or any other type)

But removing splash and making APC have laser accuracy and better rof, basically increases the disparity between tank and IFV, which is bad, and it should be decreased, while making APC glorified MRAP

[hushed estuary]

Dear tank drivers, Apologise to me right now on for camping in the safezone all damn game. I even caught you doing it on the new map. Shameless!

[hushed estuary]

Stop fucking camping in the safezones you usless peices of shit. The game has already bled tens of thousands of players. You complain about counters all game for the "Overpowered littlebird" yet there is NOTHING anyone can do about safezone tank campers sniping all day. C4 drones DO NOT WORK.

[royal notch]

Use RPG then

Like, HEAT have easily 500m of range

And if you are smarter than average lemming, you can streatch it to around 800m

[hushed estuary]

All pathetic comments. Do not reply to me again

[royal notch]

Why tho? It doesn't fit your narrative of " tanks op , i am a victim"? While you are choosing to ignore a dedicated counter that alredy exists and proved itself extremly effective.

[hushed estuary]

Shut the fuck up. You cannot fire five HEAT rockets at hundreds of meters distance all at the exact same time and expect to hit. seing as you're likely to hit for 10+, it will be more than five. Then the coward tank will just turn tail and run to base. See it every game in Oceania.

[royal notch]

Well, if that's the case, devs need to do something to create other viable, possible and enjoyable ways of playing vehicles

Maybe coping BF4 in that regard would be good idea

But w8, that would require buffing them

Well, we can't have that in Battlebit

[unreal yoke]

"stop camping and get out so I can squish you to shit without you being able to retaliate"

as long as there are no anti helicopter round fuck your shit

🖕

[royal notch]

Yep, that's mostly what this argument boils down to

[royal notch]

There is a reason why players camp/camp in spaw zone. No matter how good you are, you can't survive 5 engis with tandems, and 10 randoms on kamikaze mission to kill you, at the same time

[unreal yoke]

holy shit helicopter in this game has tank armor or something

[royal notch]

Blackhawk takes more HEAT RPG'S to kill than APC...

[unreal yoke]

dont forget 8 engis repairing inside

gunship moment

[fickle smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-crying-baby-crying-gif-5943733

[fickle smelt]

ok, and?

this is a feedback thread, not a whining thread

[burnt rock]

Man i thought you were cool tf is this whiny ass shit

[unreal yoke]

dude's the type of guys who raid spawn and cry about people retaliate

[burnt rock]

‘The coward tank will turn tail and run to base’ man idk i think that sounds like you did yo fuckin job

[unreal yoke]

thats a mission kill

you help your team

[burnt rock]

Congrats! You just forced him to turn around! That’s literally you succeeding

[hushed estuary]

Shocking that none of you admit that it is a problem. Why is that? Check your keybindings for the map key and look how many sniper tanks there are on your team and the enemy team in the protected zone, borderline safezone.

[burnt rock]

‘None of you admit that it is a problem’ man we have been discussing this since near the day the game launched with you how do you not get our position by now

‘But the tank got 30 kills running in and out of spawn’ and while he was doing that the other team was able to easily take control of almost every point

[burnt rock]

You’re acting like other people playing the god damn game is an affront to your gameplay

[hushed estuary]

50+, for both tanks. Must of been 100~ kills total just two tanks in the safezone.

[unreal yoke]

100 out of the 3000 tickets potentially lost...

[burnt rock]

Cool! 100 kills. How significant. It’s 3% of the kills in the game, assuming no one got revived, made playing as safely as possible, without ever moving beyond spawn

[burnt rock]

I have heard ‘don’t you see the infinite sniper tanks’ and i see one or two a match maybe! You know what i definitely see every match? tanks lying empty in spawn

I mean - god, doesn’t it get tiring being angry at random other people in the match passively securing a nice KDA?

[unreal yoke]

well this is balanced according to engitards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAA8xtI51Es

but this is not

[midnight plover]

@untold rivet humble request to crush his nuts

[midnight plover]

This. I'm actually surprised by how it's actually become easier over time to grab tanks and APCs. Used to be very contested vehicles but now a lot of people seem to just not want to bother with them.

[burnt rock]

I have had whole games where the APCs sat unused at spawn until I touched them

It's absurd

[royal notch]

Yeah, that shit happens.

I was convinced it only affects RCB, for obvious reasons, but now I also see tanks, and APC'S left in base

Especially on 64v64

[royal notch]

Did some of you guys was on todays devcast? And heard about thier brilliant idea about destroying tank vision?

[fickle smelt]

no, but i remember them talking about it before

they should really get the fundamentals right before thinking about shit like that

[royal notch]

But, suprise suprise, they will not

They really must hate them, to not care about them and vehicle players, to ignore feedback, and actievly making them worse

[open palm]

what idea? i was there basically the whole time, what happened?

[royal notch]

They want small arms to destroy either commander sight vision, or gunner vision

Something about making the tank blind

[mighty igloo]

get 4 buddies?

[mighty igloo]

assuming none got revived

[burnt rock]

that's such a great idea! especially since as we all know vehicles are in a solid place where we should really start expanding out the depth of these amazing mechanics

i give up, tbh - i'm just gonna see where this train rolls

[royal notch]

Took you long enough tbh

[open palm]

oh god, well rip tank drivers

[ebon prairie]

The solution too our problems would be a completely separate Gamemode "Conquest With Meta Overpowered Vehicles". Would be awesome to test out massive vehicles battles with different setups on big maps. And everybody would be happy when you have the choice: if you want vehicles to as scary as a little mosquito or nightmare you turn around and run and hide from. This would solve everything. Just get SgtOkiDoki and the other Musketeers to work and make it happend. In Sha Allah Amen

[hushed estuary]

Instead of camping in the safezone all game, voicing your greviance with the overuse of C4 and how unfair it is, how about you still risk it and take a death? Dying is normal and I have far more respect for the tank or APC that pushes past midfeild than a useless camping sniper tank.

[royal notch]

Most players would gladly done that if it didn't meant 4/6 min of not playing/team not having vehicles , and if this glorious push was worth this trade off, but its not

Its basically suciside, and it's definitely waasting team assets, because 50 kills from anyother way of playing is worth more than 15 kills during 2 minute long push

[burnt rock]

I actually do the push usually just because it’s more adrenaline (and nobody takes the tanks anymore)

[burnt rock]

But also this

[royal notch]

He basically comes here once a day, sometimes more, and starts shitting on us for no reason. That's kind of toxis behaviour

[burnt rock]

Tbh i’ve concluded that considering the pretty low value of the tank/apc anyways + low usage it makes about as much economical sense if you take it in, get it to about 60ish meters away and then begin firing until the first hit

Conditioned myself to just start running to cover the moment i even get scratched too

Because you’re getting less value with it than the duck-and-dive but you’re still getting considerably more than you’d get with them just sitting in spawn

[royal notch]

Yeah, that seems right

I am not a tank player, tbh, (APC my beloved) and I try playing tank somewhat like APC

Providing fire support rom second line, and scootigm away at first sign of danger

Doesn't work too well tbh

With tank limited mobility, ultra high priority and long reload of main gun, and other not QoL things, I get to a conclusion that it doesn't work in that way

[fickle smelt]

i do way better with APCs than tanks tbh

i just find APCs way more adaptable to shitty maps

[burnt rock]

as an APC player i play tank and APC the same way tbh

but yeah i do better with APC - for all its faults APC is much more versatile

[royal notch]

Even tho tanks can easily outperform APC'S in score and kills

And APC being worse at everything exept mobility

It seems its performing better?

What?

Where is reason in this?

[burnt rock]

the APC is so goddamn brittle it forces me to play like i have a brain tbh

[burnt rock]

bruh i just ran into you on a game are you seriously camping enemy spawn

[royal notch]

That's explains a lot lmao

[burnt rock]

to his credit: he's actually a decent pilot and knows how to maneuver to get his teammates into a decent place around objs

when he's not trying to go after apcs with 4 kills

and flaming them in all chat

[royal notch]

Now, that's unhinged behaviour

[hushed estuary]

So it was you in the APC camping in the safezone. For all your effort you only got 15 kills, on WAKISTAN no less. Grow a spine and push forward.

[royal notch]

That's suprisingly low amount

And on waki, a map when playing aggressively is possible

[burnt rock]

man i was on your team - in your repair squad lol

i was confused as to why the heli pilot kept running to enemy spawn

and why we turned back even when we weren't at all in danger

[hushed estuary]

Hmmm I see.

[burnt rock]

had to turn on vc for the first time in a while to find out tf was going on and i have to say

you are a pretty decent heli pilot

probably could be a better one without wasting loads of time and coordination on the part of your teammates going after random apcs lol

but hey - i'm not gonna dictate how you play

[hushed estuary]

The APC needs to die out of principle for being a camping loser. I will always try to contest them and line up 250m rpg shot.

[fickle smelt]

Lol it's funny because the APC is a terrible vehicle to camp in

[burnt rock]

yeah fr

[fickle smelt]

mfer has no clue what the fuck he's talking about, but won't stop him from seething and malding about vehicles

[royal notch]

Literally this. Accuracy and ammo eficency make any shots above 250m pointless, unless target is near some wall, and you have guarantee that all shits will deal dmg with splash

[fickle smelt]

exactly

[burnt rock]

btw this was awakening, watching a consistently coordinated group of 16~ish players rotate in and out of a BH

the amount of damage you can do is sweet

[royal notch]

Typical for average vehicle hater

I have seen that many times redy

[fickle smelt]

yeah people don't understand how vehicles work

and then mald about them lol

[hushed estuary]

The bridge is a death trap and we are 100% garunteed to lose a crew member merely flying over it. The cliffs were locked down for the most part by the 200 ping American camping in the APC. Cliffs is where the slaughter is most games.

[fickle smelt]

i'm an infantry main with experience in vehicles, and i have no issues

even if you can't just outright counter the vehicle with C4 or whatever, they're really easy to throw off / avoid

i've pretty much only died as infantry to vehicles when i fucked up or the vehicle player was exceptionally clever, in which case, fair

[burnt rock]

but you did manage to hover over F and do totally safe drops at E and on the cliffs, no

anyways this is totally irrelevant it was just funny to see you in my game

[hushed estuary]

I was but I was below the bridge/treesline in terms of height so I was protected from APC rounds.

when dropping on cliffs

[royal notch]

Most players, even the "pro" ones, simply don't understands that losing/avoiding line of sight of a vehicle is the best counter, and easiest one.
Ofc there are maps when it's hard to do, but 90% of the time, daying to a vehicle could be avoided

[royal notch]

Most of my kills are guys that allowed themselfs to be flanked, or are running in the open

[unreal yoke]

until they fix goofy ass RPG logic I'm not risking my life for 20 engis to swarm me

[hushed estuary]

Had a game on Zalfibay. Two Russian T-90 tanks camping in the safezone overlooing F the whole entire game, joined in by an APC. Did not even contest F ONCE! They lost by 400 tickets.

The WHOLE entire game.

[hushed estuary]

Make it so you gain no exp for kills made in the safezone. We will then see if the do it out of fear or spite for everyone else in the server,

[midnight plover]

47 kills on Lonovo without ever being able to leave spawn

The only saving grace of the tank is it's so fucking worthless engis just swarm you like it's free XP

[royal notch]

128 or 254?

[midnight plover]

254

[royal notch]

Geting relative good score on Lonovo is hard, even on 64v64

Sad you couldn't leave spawn tho

[midnight plover]

Yeah, got a few lucky clumps with HE and had a decent spotter for a while as well

[midnight plover]

Ohh also just remembered an earlier game I had on Azagor

I was blowing up some snipers on the ruined tower thingy that's on the side of the map

And the enemy tank started hitting me with AP

And you know what I did? I just sat there tanking all the shots until I ran out of targets because tanks are useless even against other tanks lol

[royal notch]

And that's good tbh, tank players ignore each other and farm in peace try to survive

And increasing tank dmg to other tanks would make APC'S even more paper

[unreal yoke]

My take on balancing tanks:

1. Reload time is 7-8 seconds on all shell types
2. Buff AP damage on other vehicles
3. Remove kill cap or extend to 10 kill cap on HE as well as bigger damage radius
4. Buff damage on people behind walls for HE
5. Make X mark fit for HE when switch shell types
6. 20 rounds for each ammo type
7. More reverse speed (At least 30 second)
8. Buff health against HEAT and Tandem, nerf health against AP

I know realism isn't prefered but as we see the way devs implement arcade is dogshit

really speaking more realism will save it

[stray shale]

I don’t really understand the kill cap on explosives anyway. Is that just a quirk of the way explosives are coded? Or was it an intentional change?

[midnight plover]

IMO AP should have a faster reload time to promote anti vehicle activity and make it riskier to be in "infantry farming" mode.

But in general, 7 seconds is insanely slow. Anyone can close the gap on you in that amount of time. It would at least need a buff to the coaxial RoF.

[royal notch]

During playtest, Oki for a reason I don't remember(but you can try to find it in updates), decided that ALL explosives unarbitrary will be limited to 490 dmg.
It seems logical given how much there is of them on 127v127 waki bridge, namak, or Old district

[stray shale]

Yeah but why is the damage distributed among players instead of just dealing x amount of damage for every year distance from explosion?

[royal notch]

Idk, Probably only Oki Himself knows

[midnight plover]

#dev-wip message

Well, for a nade it kinda makes sense, stacking five bodies on one would probably indeed protect you from its detonation :P

[royal notch]

Yeah, for a nade it 100% resonable

For HEAT too

But for anything else, NO

[unreal yoke]

65 pounds of pure explosive and metal exploding and it can't kill people in a 3 meters radius

[midnight plover]

Hey tank enjoyers anybody feel like making people miserable today? Hmu I'll be your pocket engi and repair/blow up every building and tree in sight so nobody can hide

[hushed estuary]

The cowardice of some tankers is on a whole nother level. Sniping at people from the protected zone and immediately running to base as soon as someone contests you in the slightest.
Go out of the damn safe zone.

You should 100% be able to dismount and repair your tank without having some idiot steal it from you to encourage deeper play within the map. Make it so the F1 seat is lockable or prehaps even a new idea of mine: If you hope out of a vehicle in F1 you get 20 second timer for yourself that will allow you to forcebly take F1 from anyone that is occupying it, which will move them to another seat in the vehicle or force them out.

[royal notch]

Well, play them, and then say it again. For a vast majority of players, playing aggressively will end up in geting blown up by some total random medic/recon with C4 in 3 minutes

Not really fun gameplay

[hushed estuary]

I understand your woes completely, but it doesn't justify sniping in the red zone all game. That can't be fun either.

[royal notch]

It isn't, but it's really only viable gameplay option, if you want to play vehicles

When you can play for 3 or 15 minutes, and get 10 or 40 kills, the second option seems better

[hushed estuary]

For solo play you are right. But I want to give an example. Today on Eduardovo I was contesting A trying to kill 2 safezone camping tanks with my squads and a T-90 pushed all the way up to A from the river. He was a Squad lead and we communicated and I let him know my squad will repair him whenever he needs it when he was batteling the enemy yank. He killed a few armor peices with us before returning to base after running out of ammo (never to be seen again as I'm sure you know why).

It can perform great with an infantry attachment in your squad you only just need to find dedicated people. If there was a mobile ressupply truck then I'm sure that will encourage deeper tank play.

[royal notch]

Vast majority of players plays solo, some can't/don't even have gunner to play with

Teamplay works with vehicles, for sure, but it's rare and not accesible to majority of players

Game shouldn't gatekeep it's features behind requirementof 8 guys willing to cooperate

It's not a Squad, it's literally roblox bf

[hushed estuary]

Graphics have no bearing on gameplay man. This game should be what it wants to be, blocky characters irrelevent.

If you want to encourage tank-infantry teamplay then any kills made in the radius of a friendly tank should give xp. This may sounds dumb but when people are content just to sit in a helicopter holding left click for xp surely it's appealing for some and could be directed in other places.

[royal notch]

Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that at it's core, it's very arcady game, made with accessibility in mind, and made purposely to have fun

[royal notch]

Yeah, it's a good idea, but it doesn't change the fact that vehicles cannot compete innthe environment they are in.
Like, for 64v64-127v127 they are laughably weak and underwhelming in capabilities

[mighty igloo]

forgot RPG heat or tandem

[royal notch]

They are intended for AT, and only on engi

They are okay-ish, dying to them feels right

Dying to random motherfucker with c4 doesn't

Especially when he doesn't even spec in AT, just running C4 because yes

[burnt rock]

There's like. Real counterplay to the tandem and heat at least

The counterplay is run as fast as you fucking can, but that is counterplay

Silent ass C4 runny spinny fucker on the other hand

[mighty igloo]

C4 is a auto pick for several for how many reasons?

and I agree on the feels okay

[royal notch]

You can also try to dodge if you see a guy aiming at you

While only viable counter to C4 is to not leave spawn zone

[celest raven]

it isn't, but sadly it's your only option on some maps

as soon as you try to be aggessive with your tank, someone is guaranteed to go up behind you and put C4 on you. and even if you see it coming, you simply can't turn around fast enough to counter it

[stuck ibex]

no armed vehicles should be able to shoot while in spawn that is all i have to say

[royal notch]

They can not shoot while in spawn

That's a first thing

Second, if they can shoot at you, while in spawn protection zone, you also can shoot at them and damage them, they are not invincible, if they can shoot

Third thing, if you are spawn locking enemy team, how should they fight back if they can't shoot? Or do you want to kill people on thier spawn?

[stuck ibex]

very much can with tanks not helis I dont think

either that or its a bug on the servers i play on

[royal notch]

You are, as expected, misunderstanding some things. You CAN'T shoot while in spawn, you get a message on top of screen that you are in "safe zone"

Spawn zone, the blue/red one, is there to make it impossible to camp spawn, you need to be abke to shoot from it, otherwise players could easily spawn camp and spawn lock

If you don't like that, don't play conq

But if you expect players exiting thier own spawn to be not able to shoot at you, while you spawncamp them and spawn lock them, because it wouldn't matter if you were anywhere else, then you know...

[celest raven]

vehicles shooting from the safezone is fucking cringe but you're pressured into doing it by how strong anti-vehicle tools are

if C4 and RPGs get nerfed, i would be very happy to see vehicles not being able to shoot from safezones

[hushed estuary]

I'm assuming your the Zubi fella from Oceania. This guy doens't quite know the extent of safezone camping in our region so I don't think he will understand.
Tanks can't shoot from the safezone but can from the protected zone and reverse back into immunity after taking a single hit from a rocket which makes them obnoxious and unkillable

[royal notch]

If that's a region problem, then Idk what to say

On EU/NA vehicles rarely camp in protected zone, if they do, only because enemy is spawnlocking thier team, and they can't do anything else

But shooting at first point, rarely more than 100m form blue border, is hardly camping imo

[stuck ibex]

yea so its just the server or the players in our region?

[hushed estuary]

It would be the players. Aussie Battler Gaming is pretty much a vanilla server like the official ones were so it is not a bug with the safezone.
It was likely myself and my squad is at fault for the camping tanks because we've rpg'd so many armor assets from the helicopter to the point that they only camp now where they can't be contested.

[burnt rock]

it's straightforwardly not - ABG isn't an exceptional server, it's a server with more dedicated payers and that's the extent of its differences
I've played on it for several hours and if no one is making an active effort to counter tanks/APCs, the tanks do the usual of taking very defensive positions or sometimes going out and eating shit

dedicated players mean the tanks know how to navigate positions and distances and so if there's an active counter team they do the rational thing and go to spawn or get off tank, it's nothing unique

[wary bramble]

All vehicles are too weak on 127 vs 127 mode. Either you camp far away with your tank or you're obliterated with RPG HE/TANDEM or C4's.

[eternal flower]

c4s just being available to assault and engie would help alot

[royal notch]

Not necessarily, tandem still exists, engis can spam you to death with heat and maps are terrible for vehicles.

Limiting c4 would be nice, but not as much as it could seem

[celest raven]

^

[eternal flower]

still would be better than just nothing

you have to keep watching your back to just every class in the game because they can counter you in a situation that you were supposed to be unkillable if not met by some situations

it just many things that make tanks to be a trap box because anyone can do damage to you in some way

also that engies with repair equipment are more rare than support players before the bipod buff

[mighty igloo]

being honest we just need a vehicle rework at this rate

[eternal flower]

i think that its their least concern honestly

atleast better that than a op vehicle meta

[royal notch]

So you want vehicle experience to be outright bad, not fun and not enjoyable, with a lot of bullshit (inf having better AT dps than a tank) ?

And there is no such thing as "vehicle meta"

Not when they are kimited to 5-8 people per 127 team

[eternal flower]

that unironically sounds like i said i like mangoes but you responded by saying i hate oranges

what i meant is that there are many other things for them to work with that makes so a vehicle rework is in the least concern right now since, they are bad but can still be situational aswell that they are locked for 1 gamemode when the majority just let you use nothing or transports

it is better this than making vehicles so good and close to op because they can bascially shut down the gamemod just by existing, but this can change since they are making a gamemode like bf1 operations

and im sure they will have to make tanks to be good because atleast for me this gamemode will be really popular if done right

also prob rip frontlines if the gamemode is actually good

i just play frontlines because it remindes me the most of when i played operations in my teens😭

[mighty igloo]

(be me ; Sees a tank combat server)

(Gets interested & joins)

(Finds one team farming tanks with infantry)

(and it became a infantry vs tank server where infantry was winning by a large majority)

[torn oasis]

Sigma team vs beta team

[zealous cave]

i think a decent change might be increasing tank durability in some situations, like front armor and turret sides, but decreasing capabilities to massacre infantry. Reduced HE shell count, increased AP, as well as a larger coax clipsize but much longer reload, and somewhat worse dispersion at range?

[honest remnant]

Tanks shouldnt be able to shoot in the zone where enemies cannot enter without the 10s death timer. Pure exploit needs to be removed

no vehicle should but tanks especially

[royal notch]

Then engineers shouldn't be able to camp safe zone, and kill all vehicles that are exiting it
It should work both ways

[torn oasis]

The difference is tanks could still fight against engineers camping a road, you cant do anything against "spawn tanks".
Engineers camping the safe point, had to fight or sneak across the whole map then set up, then hold against all the infantry around them and only then kill the tank who wasn't paying attention (with a tandem it takes 2 hits). I think all that effort should be rewarded.
I think the best change is to encourage tanks to get closer to the fight by reducing effective range (increased spread and drop) by alot, removing reload/repair points in spawn but adding them on capture points and making them more effective at killing at close range (better spotters or maybe better machine gun rate of fire/damage).

[royal notch]

Engeeniers can camp enemy safe zone easier than vehicles can kill anyone further than 100m from it. It doesn't require skill, luck or effort to setup yourself behind cover and pre aim roads/exits form safe zone. Sandy Sunset E point is a good example here. You can see every vehicle leaving base, while being basically invisoble to them. Add 3d spot, basically wallhack, and you will easily deal with any vehicle.
And your propositions of "encuraging" diferent gameplay are bad, like very bad.
You missed main point why vehicles camp. They can't survive near any point. 1 engis can crub stomp a tank easily. Vehicle survivability needs to be increased if you want to promote more aggresive gameplay. Averness too, so the point with spotters isn't bad.

Anyways, no map allows for getting kills further than 100m from the spawn zone, so vehicles can effectively only engage at first point. Definitely inside HEAT and Tandem range. And if you whine that they just turn around and go to base for repair to quickly, then don't camp enemy spawn.

[torn oasis]

I do think it could be interesting, giving tanks more survivability (maybe along with some kind of movement disable system tracks take enough damage they are slowed, or can only turn in a circle) with the idea of punishing the team who doesn't make the most out of their tanks.
Also you have to be careful not to give tanks wall hacks or something stupid with better spotters. Maybe just some more effective overlay to allow for better communication between spotters and gunners (maybe even nearby allies).
I dont think that holding a point infront of enemy spawn is as easy as you think. A semi coordinated push will do very well (I play 127 so 8 people on one point isnt much).

[royal notch]

Any sort of immobilisation in BBR would be a deth sentence, that would make vehicles unplayable given sheer amount of engineers, tandems and the fact that everyone have C4

"You have to be careful not to give tanks wall hack"
Then why infantry have those?

Either inf looses 3d spot, literally wallhack, or vehicles get those. It needs to be fair

[honest remnant]

wow worst take ive actually ever seen gj

get out and shoot them from a distance then drive

[royal notch]

Possible, but how often?

They will camp safe zone if they are safe from enemy base side

Ratting is alredy a problem

It's not a bad take (lol) it's a valid concern, because this behavior already exists and is obnoxious

Being unable to shoot from safe zone would only make it worse

and getting out from vehicle is super easy way to got it stolen, especially in friendly safe zone so that's a NO

[midnight plover]

you cant do anything against "spawn tanks".
Must be very hard to find one other player in a 127 person team to put antivehicle mines on a drone

Most spots camping spots aren't even easy to drive around so you even have enough time to do it yourself just with C4

Dunno what more to say if you're too lazy to do even that

[torn oasis]

I haven't tried that against tanks, i usually use anti tank mines (on roads) but they do very low damage to them? how many do you need for a T90?

[midnight plover]

No idea but not more than any single player can carry

[torn oasis]

I haven't found a clear answer but someone on the internet said 15, which from experiance sounds about right.

I run with 4 mines, so you would need 4 people and a drone.

[midnight plover]

lol

1. No way
2. Just use C4 then

[torn oasis]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleBitRemastered/comments/15dpt29/how_many_antitank_mines_to_kill_a_tank/

I don't think everyone/ every squad should be forced to run c4 drones to kill a tank who is hiding in spawn. Also its quite easy to shoot drones down so you spend all this effort for it to have a meh success rate, and then what... you have to go resupply or die before you can try again.

[midnight plover]

So... irrelevant for drone strikes because you just hit them from the back

And you do that with C4 anyway precisely so you stay out of view of the gunners

[midnight plover]

"everyone" buddy there's a max of three tanks per map

and they take several minutes to respawn

if you can't approach a tank without getting shot down with a drone that can fly up to 200m and has excellent zoom then that's your own skill issue

tanks in spawn aren't even going to have a machine gunner half of the time because they can't do shit at those ranges

and even if they do, just use your brain to figure out when they're distracted engaging something

[torn oasis]

so its still more then one person can carry with 2x dmg

[midnight plover]

Oh no I guess the recon you need anyway will have to spend one C4 block to go over the threshold how will they ever recover

I'm afraid you might starve to death one day if you don't have someone to remind you that food won't jump from the plate into your mouth by itself

[torn oasis]

so we need two people to use everything to kill one tank hiding in spawn. Its very easy to shoot drones down normally (i dont play spawn tanks but i assume its still easy, just switch to gun). It seems healthier for the game to remove spawn tanks rather then leave them.

[royal notch]

Given how easily avalibe gadgets are, how many players there is, and the fact that is a team game, that "much" effort to destroy 6 min respawn powermultiplier is still too low.

And if you think spawn camping is unhealthy, just don't spawn lock enemies. Them you willl never see enemy tanks camping from spawn

[torn oasis]

Its not spawn locking its just attacking the first point. I think it should be possible and still a fair fight

[royal notch]

It is a fair fight

You still can kill those tank, being in spawn doesn't make it invincible. It still takes damage

Just use rpg ffs

[midnight plover]

It's funny because even in maps where you can shoot from spawn there's only a limited amount of spots you can even hit

Buddy probably just wants to stand on a window holding LMB at anyone walking out from spawn

[royal notch]

And contesting first point is basically spawn locking

[torn oasis]

i use tandems, even if you coordinate against stanks they take half mg from front and will just go back to base if they get hit once

[royal notch]

That's everyone who says that "vehicles is spawn zone are bad". They just want to spawn lock/spawn camp enemy team without any opposition.

[royal notch]

Price you pay for spawn locking enemy. Making vehicles unable to shoot from spawn will not change that

You are so close to enemy base that it's given

[torn oasis]

Im actually okay with them shooting but i dont think allowing them to repair in base is a good balance

[royal notch]

Wait

What?

Vehicles shouldn’t repair IN THIER BASE?

That's a deranged take if I ever seen one

[midnight plover]

Must be one of the failgineers that spend the whole game trying to kill me only to end up 0-20 or something

Best part about sitting in spawn as a tank is targets just come to me

Why bother driving anywhere if I can just wait for the spawncampers to come feed themselves to me

[royal notch]

The fact that they will always come just says how many peoples are okay with spawn camping/locking enemy team. Every game devolves in to that

Then someone has skill issue, and calls for vehicles to he defensless in thier spawn

[torn oasis]

I dont think taking the first point is spawn camping

[torn oasis]

"I'm afraid you might starve to death one day if you don't have someone to remind you that food won't jump from the plate into your mouth by itself"

[royal notch]

Well, given that capturing it always end in people focusing on enemy vehicles and players existing their spawn, yes it is

That's how this game flows

[midnight plover]

Not my fault it does in this case

[eternal flower]

i think this is a situation that creates a problem that creates a problem

tanks are basically a glass cannon by now when they are in the frontlines, even when having a full dedicated crew you will only prevail if you have also a dedicated team around you to protect you from all sides and not put the job of the gunner to 1000%

even then it is not guarantee and still risky because every class and their mother has a way to damage and, making so you have to focus everyone and not just the enginner

with then makes so the best optminal way to play is to either sit back 600meters away or in spawn to be effective, the last one that can be a safe bet for a tank most of the time, being able to move around with out worries and if you get shot back you can just retreat to a hill and go back to resupply with is anoying in maps that makes the tank have a good line of sight to a objective

[midnight plover]

Considering this devcast at least Oki acknowledged that C4 on Medic is busted, if he actually does something about that, we might actually get to play inside the map for once

[eternal flower]

i didnt got in time to the devcast

any news about support weapons

[midnight plover]

exactly zero

[eternal flower]

amazing

[celest raven]

it's not that C4 on medic is busted, it's that C4 is busted in general

removing it from medic is a band-aid solution at best

[midnight plover]

That is true, but it's usually best to take changes one at a time and C4 has to go from Medic either way

[eternal flower]

i just dont agree with this bc in any squad you will see from 1-4 medics

it is a really used class in general

[midnight plover]

Would expect this to shift with C4 removal

[eternal flower]

most likely

assault will prob be more used

thats my bet

[midnight plover]

Same

I know I would

[celest raven]

ok, so what?

engineers are going to keep abusing it alongside RPGs

same with recon players, same with assault players

it'll still be OP as shit, you'll just see it slightly less often

literal band-aid solution

[mighty igloo]

suppose it would be a interesting question to see if any drop medic due to only c4

[eternal flower]

I mean better than geting nothing

Better than just forgeting this and keeping how things are

[eternal flower]

It is a good tool for mobility and making so your damage potential be higher

Medic just has better chances to use it in both situations
Support uses its more to make things clear and to build since he is slow, he can get shut down before even being able to use it as a damage option

[mighty igloo]

his use cases for killing with it tends towards defensive play

aka enemies have took cover behind your walls

[eternal flower]

If you are going agressive and you see a cluster of enemys while you are behind them, the best option is just to pull the c4 and you basically have 10 kills

Thats the main thing i see about agressive c4 and it works somehow

More on wakistan i have noticed

[mighty igloo]

Well you move fast, phase through guys to help appear like a ally just moving by fast & you get the idea

if you do that

[eternal flower]

Yeah

But though it will hurt medics

If you remove to recon it would be nice aswell(dont know if there is any recon that uses it like that but whatever)

Drone+ mines are more fun to use

Also shoutout to the random recon that killed me in a apc with a drone

[zealous cave]

its almost like being able to knife fight armored vehicles is uh
bad lmao

[torn oasis]

If you ended up in knife fighting range with a guy without killing them you deserved it.

[royal notch]

Then not every infantryman deserves tools to take out vehicles

[unreal yoke]

solutions for tank balancing: dont play it

[midnight plover]

I don't mind if Medic gets Sledgehammer and they add tiny vehicle damage to sledge

Let everyone take a tank, but actually work for it if they're not a specialized class 😌

[royal notch]

with such unprecedented amount of players, not every class should have acces to any AT

Like, recons/medics/Sl shoudn have nothing

PS2 does that similarly, not every class have tools to deal with vehicles, and even dedicated tools aren't OSK

[midnight plover]

Yes they do, even infiltrators have explosive crossbow and antivehicle knives

But as I said, it simply takes significantly more effort and skill to actually kill a vehicle with those tools

[royal notch]

Not really a "dedicated tool"

[midnight plover]

Also the wraith flash was insane

[royal notch]

I may phrased my previosu statement wrong

and no one is tank hunting with infi

[midnight plover]

... that's all I did for the last half a year I played lol

The starfall on the flash was insanely good at picking off damaged tanks

It was agile enough to even get the drop on Harassers

And with flak armor + composite flash you could even tank a direct hit

Then you would have enough time to jump off and finish them with the crossbow

You could even hunt aircraft if you managed to figure out likely places where they would land for repairs :D

So similarly, I don't think there'd be a problem in making sure every class has at least one way of threatening vehicles, even if it's very situational and hardly effective compared to the alternatives

Bottom line still is that C4 has to go from medic tho :P

If I recall correctly C4 was also in the same slot as medkits right?

So there were strong tradeoffs involved

There's absolutely nothing that compares to C4 in that slot currently

[eternal flower]

Honestly i would be fine to support lose c4 aswell

If we get a sledgehammer in return since support benefits alot when it comes to clearing ans creating line of sights to use the bipod more effective

[zealous cave]

True!
Support with sledge and pickaxe to make loopholes would be great!

tbh I think that everyone should have some way of doing like, a gunbash or kick or something to knock out windows at least

[mighty igloo]

windows were made to help keep the line of sight not too many & require a sledge or such to use without opening up a huge hole

[zealous cave]

i get that
but its so frustrating to see a closed window and go god I wish my character could just kick this window open so O could shoot the enemy

[mighty igloo]

being honest, I get that pain (I am a support main who uses mainly the trophy system)

But equally it would invalidate their purpose to a degree

[lusty flare]

I was going to complain about how the rpg-tandem is too good, then I realized the real problem is tank HP being too high. To be clear, I want the tank HP and the damage of the tank killing tools to half or something. In order to comparatively nerf the tandem against other things.

[royal notch]

I don't really understand that point. You want tanks nerfed, but not?

[torn oasis]

He wants other tools to be useful against tanks and not just tandems.

[royal notch]

HEAT is very much useful against a tank. Trade off of not shooting a fucking tank form the front to deal meaningful damage solo is alright given how easy to use it is and how many rockets you have.
AV grenades are extremely underrated, that's all I am going to say, just use them more.
C4 is C4. Totally OP and broken no skill tool, literally a crutch that invalidates AT role, avalibe to everyone, in big amounts. Biggest problem of the game balance.
The only underwhelming tool are mines, because they are very hard to make work and make fair, especially on 127v127. They suck in BF and PS2, when they are avalibe to everyone, but they are good in Squad, when they are limited to one player per 50 people team.

Additionally, tanks and APC also suck at engaging other vehicles, even thier equivalents, FOR SOME FUCKING REASON.

So stating that anything that's not a obvious crutch like tandem is not usefull, just says a lot about that's person understanding of game and creativity

[celest raven]

killing APCs with tanks is free

but APC vs APC, or tank vs tank? absolutely horrid

[royal notch]

Well, that's a exeption, and a small one

[celest raven]

yeah

[zealous cave]

maybe remove mines from loadout slot and add them as an airstrike or something
deploy a minefield

landmines are used as a linear obstacle like barbed wire instead of an "ambush" tool.

[royal notch]

Eh, they could just remove them

There is a reason why they are a joke in BF/PS2

[torn oasis]

Landmines are fun, don't touch them they are mine

[lusty flare]

I want to nerf the tandem rockets against APC and jeep. And the way to do it is to bring down the tank HP, so Tandem don't have to be so oppressive.

[royal notch]

Bringing down tank HP is straight up a nerf

If you want to buff APC and jeep, increase thier HP

Nerfing tank hp makes tandem more opressive

[lusty flare]

if you nerf the tank hp, the tandem MUST be nerfed in order to not be a guaranteed 1 hit kill. They both falls like dominos.

it's because of the excessive tank HP that the tandem dmg is so high

[royal notch]

I don't see that

You can just nerf tandem. Because it current version is op even against tanks

[lusty flare]

Myeah, but it's a bit of a nash mixed strategy equilibrium, the reason why tandem is so good, is because they are so useful against jeep and LAV. Everyone carry one. And that's why it's oppressive even against tank.

[forest fossil]

What do you think about drones with c4. How do you counter them? It seems to me that this is impossible, if 2 people or a squad want to blow you up, they will do it at any point on the map. Or maybe I'm just a noob and don't understand how to counter this?

You might spot and shoot down a couple of drones, but eventually they'll get you no matter where you are.

[royal notch]

If you play alone, you may be destroyed by a drone. Tanks are loud as fuck and lack elevation. With second gunner, you should be safe

[zealous cave]

its
almost like the lightly armored vehicles must be used carefully, and if you want to avoid being ambushed then take a special route.

[royal notch]

Or maybe a vehicle with 4 minute respawn shouldn't be able to be one shotted

[celest raven]

lmfao, "special route"

is that the route you take when riding your special bus?

[zealous cave]

Drive alone into city area. Get ambushed. "Tandem OP."
THe cycle.

[royal notch]

Follow infantry from point to point. Get's one shotted by tandem that landed 4m away

Your statements just show that you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about

[torn oasis]

Tandems one shotting a tank with aoe, then saying THEY have no clue...... tank players am i right

[royal notch]

??

[mystic belfry]

Tanks feel like they are filling a useless role. When I see tanks being used optimally, they are hanging really far back from the gun fights and just using long range fire support on stuff. They have no weight to throw around right now, no presence to exert on a point. They cant be used to punch through fortifications because they get owned by the 99% of players who equip c4, or by a tandom from a random tree or window you cant watch. Their guns feel like they are fine, but the fact the tanks only gets a lot of value when not actively fighting for space feels wrong.

spotter seat also feels in a bad spot. no one really wants to be in it because you arent shooting stuff, and up close the tank doesnt have enough protection or fire to cover all the angles you can see anyways.

[royal notch]

Totally agree, that very much sums up everything

[mystic belfry]

Some changes I can think of:

• Give tanks reactive armor. This will make tanks more survivable, but also introduce angle armoring mechanics. Opportunistic Tandems will still be somewhat viable once active armor has been expended.
• introduce active kill (trophy) systems. to balance them maybe make them able to be shot out or destroyed.
• Reduce the vehicle damage of C4. Or create an incremental damage system based on material type (like with armour type). The fact that 3 c4 can kill a tank or an LAV seems too strong IMO.
• Increase machine gun firing bloom to incentivize closer engagements. to balance this change, reduce the secondary MG's camera bloom when the tank is moving, make it more stable so it can better defend a tank up close, but less accurate so its not as viable at medium-long range
• increase differences between AP and HE rounds. HE does less environment damage but more AOE, AP can chew through reactive armor and walls better.

[royal notch]

LAV only takea 2 c4, 1 when placed on the rear.

MG is alredy inaccurate af above 70m,

[eternal flower]

i rememeber geting a dedicated second player to be my gunner

we were moving to an urband area and i basically just shouted that the cavalry is here, foolish of me to think that because i only walked two feet foward and saw the army of enginners raising when we killed like 6 people

even when breaking their defense and cover in the building it still wasnt enough, even with literally inf support on my sides i still got clapped by c4

ofc it was a medic

[mystic belfry]

yeah sounds about right XD. Granted the tank shouldnt be able to go into stupid fights without being punished but it should at least be somewhat relevant XD

[eternal flower]

it is more that i was kinda far back but swtiching to be in with the infantry

problem is that if i went head first when they first saw me, i wouldnt have that much of a suprise when everyone and their mother has a c4 in hand

[mystic belfry]

yeah there just isnt much to do about c4 or tandems when you try to push to hold space. I also try to push with infantry but you either get flanked or the bozos you are with dont stay wqith you when you sit still to shoot at something.

[jolly crypt]

If you get killed by c4 its your infantry being completely blind, you don’t look around often or dont have a spotter or mg to help look around or you over extend lets be real

Ngl though I never use tanks or vehicles often because of the directions error when you move back in a vehicle

But as a tank/apc hunting stealth engie using tandems, most of the time when I kill tanks its because they don’t have a good machine gunner, weren’t paying attention or alone without infantry when overextending or camping

[royal notch]

So the fault lies in game design. Right, cam agree with that.
MG gunner isn't very incentivising to play, and limited in ammo, so randoms will go full auto for 30s and they they are out of ammo
Imfantry just doesn't care. They WILL not follow or support you. You can go stand inside friendly blob, and you will still diesl to C4. They are simply useless and not willing to help, so saying 'play with infantry support' is just delusional take of someone with no experience.
And there is so much of attention you can pay, even fully crewed tank can be easily overwhelmed on 127v127

[swift arrow]

anyone knows is there any benefit to turning off the tank stabiliser?

[royal notch]

No, there is no benefit

There shouldn't be

Maybe in hardcore, when driver and gunner will be split, but rn use stabilisation all the time

[lusty flare]

not dying in a tank is easy. anyone can end with a 15-0 / 25-0 tank at the end of a match, but it really doesn't feel like a "tank" if that's all you achieve standing in the back. As soon as you get offensive, you get blown up by tandem.

[royal notch]

25-0 isn't a lot. Even on 32v32.

[torn oasis]

Considering the difficulty and risk, it's quite good

[midnight plover]

The problem is that attempting to go beyond that scales the difficulty and risk exponentially more than the reward you get for it.

[zealous cave]

Make tanks able to withstand six hits from RPGs on the front. make RPGs much more effective to the sides and rear.
Nerf C4 heavy vehicle damage so you can't CQC a tank.
Increase dispersion of the machine guns so I can't countersnipe people with impunity using the 7M RWS or tank RWS

Destructible components?

maybe increase dispersion or decrease muzzle velocity of the main gun to enforce more effectiveness in closer ranges.

[royal notch]

Dispertion of the 120mm gun...

nerfing muzzle velocity of HE💀

[zealous cave]

the thing is that a modern tank is supposed to fight things over 1000 meters distant
like none of the maps ingame are good tank country lmao
but also tanks aren't durable enough to be good assault vehicles
and there's so many threats that using it is impossible in basically any area with decent cover

[royal notch]

True all that.
But not a reason to nerf them

[burnt rock]

came back to find out tanks are still in the same spot they were when i first left

[celest raven]

hey at least we got uh, 1 new support gun, and kneecapped snipers

[burnt rock]

i mean, i guess that should be totally expected but god damn if the patchnotes aren't encouraging in that regard - inf keep getting steadily more powerful and tanks continue to eat shit

[burnt rock]

they what

nevermind i'll read it for myself

jesus christ

the steam store page for BBR should update by replacing 'teamwork' with 'gimped 127 player call of duty' at this point

[zealous cave]

that depends with what you want

[royal notch]

Yeah, nothing changes

Tho Invasion is fun to play

Makes it bearble

But by all means, vehicles still suck ass very much

[burnt rock]

Makes sense, breakthrough was also my favorite in bfv

[royal notch]

INV is easy enough that I fear my skill will drop

[stuck ibex]

snipers were not even close to broken and all they achieved it making extreme long range sniping the only viable way to play sniper

why they didnt nerf tanks or at least get them to not be able to camp in spawn is beyond me

[celest raven]

maybe because tanks are underpowered as shit and are forced to camp in spawn to not get blown up instantly?

nerf tandem and C4 into oblivion and then we can talk about tanks not being able to shoot from safezones

[hushed estuary]

No excuse for obnoxiously sniping from the safezone all game.
I feel ya zubi

[torn oasis]

But there is a chance of death if we leave safe zone MY KDA

[royal notch]

Any other way of playing is unsustainable or actively harmfull to your team. Loss of tank = big L

[royal notch]

More like guaranteed death, just sooner or later

Amd sniping from safe zone isn't a thing. Unless you arw shooting at your nearest point from spawn

Which isn't sniping, and you are supposed to do so (shoot at enemies on point)

[midnight plover]

It's basically only a thing in Sandysunset and a couple very limited angles in Valley but people act like you would see rows of tanks sitting in base in every single map lol

[royal notch]

People call 'vehicles camping in spawn' when they are actively spawn locked, nearest point is capped, and they fight for it.
A vehicle 100m away, granted in spawnzone, starts killing them, so thier brain shorts out, and they call abuse, when they are forcing thier enemy to stay in thier spawn

Then thay will call for nerfing that, because vehicles is 20s ride from main spawn where it can resuply

[celest raven]

it's pretty bad on waki

you can pretty safely cover the point closest to your safezone

but like, that's kinda what you have to do if you don't want to get C4d or tandem'd instantly

anti-vehicle options are really common, really strong, and really easy to use

meanwhile tanks take like what, 5 minutes to respawn?

[midnight plover]

Except waki doesn't even have a way for you to reliably get a tank. And pushing the first point is literally not sniping as @royal notch said, much less with the drunk APC shots going all over the place

[midnight plover]

6 minutes

[hushed estuary]

Incorrect. Tank safezone camping is prevalent on every map, but so expecially in Oceania servers. Fighting them is like a war within a war.

[royal notch]

I want to see what you mean. There are maps where you can't get kills doing that. I would like to see a recording of that, from scpecactor view.

[jolly crypt]

Im slowly getting more and more tempted to @sgtοkidoki for real for implementing a change that worsens the handful of playstyle snipers we’re actually useful in

[jolly crypt]

It was mostly on that heighway in tensa town p sure

Was still doable with 8 people using tandems and all shooting together before the tank could react to the first tandem

[royal notch]

That sounds like a map issue

[jolly crypt]

Yeah n they changed it alr

[hushed estuary]

I posted a screenshot on Wineparadise months ago and no one beleived me despite it showing them in the safezone. Also, I'm pretty much done with you as a poster because you're very foolish.

[royal notch]

Tanks shouldn't be on Tensa anyways

Same as Frugis

[jolly crypt]

I don’t like frugis just because I can’t get rappled into the backline with 3 engies 3 medics n play as a spec ops team with my friends

Eduarvo though

[royal notch]

You posted a screenshot literally a single frame. Not even a second. Post a video if someone sitting in safe zone for 10 minutes straight getting kills 400m away, becouse that would be camping/sniping

[jolly crypt]

I mean they could also nerf tank accuracy by making it unreliable past 300m

[royal notch]

LMAO

[jolly crypt]

Which is unrealistic asf

[royal notch]

What else lol?

HEAT is effective past 500m

So let's make tank have range of 7m

lol

lmao

I can;t

[jolly crypt]

Do people actually shoot you with heat from 500m

Other than that 1 cracked asf engie with 5k rocket kills

[royal notch]

idk about people. I definetly can land shots at that range

It's totally possible against stationary target

[jolly crypt]

If they r camping n not moving yeah

Yeah

[royal notch]

Not moving =/= camping

stop with this "camping shit"

[jolly crypt]

“&”

[royal notch]

You should have used 'or'

[jolly crypt]

“or”

[midnight plover]

Send pics

[royal notch]

not pics, it doesn't shows what the player is doing for some time. You can ss a vehicle RTB and call it 'spawn camping'. It needs to be video

[midnight plover]

Yeah I've seen some people on reddit showing a pic of vehicles clearly driving along the main road in Sandy claiming those were spawn campers, like bro you can't even look at anything meaningful from that angle 🤣

[royal notch]

Those type of 'evidence' can be taken tottaly out of context, because it provides no context'

[burnt rock]

Tbh i’m surprised you’re still responding to him half his gameplay is hogging a heli to go bully tanks on the enemy team with infinite tandems and he admitted as such

Like it’s been said but it can’t be left unsaid that 2/3rds of the tank complaints are vibes complaints about how bad it feels when the tank interrupts my 10 kill streak ;o;

My K/D /o/

And like. That is their fault, but it’s also exactly what the game is - it doesn’t have anything fun about teamplay because the one and only fun thing for people is hold m1 and shoot. The obj gameplay is meh. Teamwork is irrelevant and you have to practically be role-playing to maintain it. And people have said this since week 2, and yet all the game’s being changed to do is make a low poly roblox version of call of duty ground war

[torn oasis]

I have never heard that complaint, I have only seen complaints about " spawn-tanking "

[royal notch]

Some 'pro' players have opinion that vehicles are stupid, OP etc, because they are power multipliers and make it harder for them to pub stomp lobbies

[torn oasis]

interesting

bit of a weird desire when there are plenty of no vehicle modes

[royal notch]

Right? But it is what it is, some individuals will play only frontline or domi but still will advocate for nerfs. They are such individuals but I will not name drop

[jolly crypt]

Ngl I play conquest nowadays mostly to hunt enemy vehicles because the risk reward is fun asf

[royal notch]

But there is no risk for you lol

Death is at best a mild inconvenience, unless you care for your KD very much

[open palm]

it's a pretty rough thing lol
you lose your position and your potential flank, both very valuable things

[royal notch]

You go to respawn screen for 5 seconds, and just click on the prefered green dot to respawn. 8/10 you are where you died in max 15s. While death in a tank costs your team a power multiplier , and it takes 6 min for it to respawn.
Inf death is simpmy inconsequential

[open palm]

but nowhere near my previous position, which is very valuable

[royal notch]

Well, there is at least some price to death, should be more honestly. And if you take out IFV/Tank and then die, even 1 min in respawn point and spawning at main would still be good trade off

[open palm]

regarding enemy vehicles sure, not inf vs inf tho

[royal notch]

I mean, this is tank thread

But even with inf vs inf, death is inconsequential kid of

[zealous cave]

Hmm.
This is a point.
Maybe make a tank possible to disable, but not kill? Force a withdraw either to home plate or to an engineer or something.

maybe bases 1 or 2 points behind the front should also have friendly only vehicle repair points...

[thin glade]

is it me or ap didn't do damage to tanks at all?

like 10-20 damage

[polar grotto]

Bug/Suggestion:
There's a thing with the tanks atm -
If you drive your tank in 1m of water you get kicked out and cant get into it. M1 abrams should be able to go 3m underwater.

[royal notch]

10 from the front, 20 from the side, 40 from the rear, frontal damage is a joke honestly

[thin glade]

not rear is a joke

because i can like 3 tandems, and tank is dead, but more than 4 ap and tank is don't care

[eternal flower]

to take this much time tanks should be really fucking difficult to kill in general, and requiring focus fire from everyone to take down

you could make it in the current state and the respawn time to be shorter as a option aswell

bc if we go to the average match you will have those people that go with the tank to the middle of town and die in 5 seconds to wait 6 minutes

almost the same level of rage when you are in a good position while using the gun of a mounted car and then some random fucker gets inside and goes full force to the enemy frontline

[thin glade]

Or even worse, just run car in water(sometimes it happened to me) etc, so you can't use car anymore

[polar grotto]

Suggestion - Had multiple instances now where I'm getting swarmed by 10 angry men with c4 and rockets. When trying to get out of there, my heavy m1 tank gets stuck on a measly palm tree. We should be able to knock the smaller trees over but the big ones will still stop you.

[royal notch]

'Too op'
-someone, sometime ago

[polar grotto]

Too OP lol, hopefully they'll change their mind in future. Pesky palm trees

[stuck ibex]

if they make anti vehicles mines actualy do damage im fine with it

[royal notch]

Vehicle thread is alive again
https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1138533470348525699

[royal notch]

Do anyone else finds himself choosing coaxial MG over HE as a tool to kill infantry? Not only because it has more ammo, but also because it's more consistent, and has more utility

[mystic belfry]

I enjoy sniping infantry from behind rocks with the HE, its also great to hit a building with but yeah the MG is so effective.

[royal notch]

Just played a tank on half empty 64v64 lobby, basically 32vs32 in pracitce. It felt good. Tank wa sirvivable enough to play somwhat aggresively, while still able to ba taken down realitevly easy by enmies. I died to a mixture of being outplayed and a little to much confidence. It was genuielly much better than on 127v127 or 64v64