Assault Rifles (General) - Feedback

[rich locust]

Please keep it on topic, and civil, we want serious feedback

• No gifs
• No 'skill issue'
• No video's - (Testing video's in the Polygon are fine)

[zealous kelp]

i think most of the rifles just needs some tweaking here and there so far as ive seen individual feedback. tho we can see which rifles are actually being used less and being used often.

[sour steeple]

Whoa, feedback posts have been reset.

[wraith radish]

My one complaint with ARs is that burst fire is basically useless - I can't find a range between full auto and single shot where burst fire actually improves performance

[rapid kite]

This. Reduce the delay between bursts and no first shot multiplier for follow up bursts in reasonable time window

[royal portal]

I believe my beloved AUG should have it's 600 RPM like it's real life counterpart to at least make it somewhat more viable in closer ranges

Too many times have I been absolutely shredded before I could even get 5 shots off

[stone trench]

ar currently lack a real identity to some degree.
fal scar and ak15 are all okay besides minor things like the walkspeed on the scar ( i swear it feels like beeing rooted ).
g36, m4, sg, acr, famas and the hk419 are wierd though. they might as well stop existing and it would change nothing. i get it theyre commonly used but none of those guns really fills a purpose. theyre all in the same role with minor differences

i left the ak5 out as i dont have nearly enough mags dumped to tell stories about it

[zealous kelp]

wdym g36, m4, sg, acr, famas and hk419 is wierd? and wdym buy stope existing?

[stone trench]

they wierd in the way that they all do the same more or less and scince theres still other weapons wich semi fill their role while doing other things better they feel off

if that makes any sense

for me they just lack a identity

scar is accurate ah, the fal kills extremely well on short and medium range and the ak15 is a headshot monster. the others dont feel the same

[zealous kelp]

i mean all the rifles are accurate tho

like scar,ak15 and fal dont spray at long ranges
meanwhile the other gun you mentioned can

[stone trench]

if a gun cant keep at least a major part of its dps on longer range i dont consider it accurate at that range

and the fal has more than enough recoil to be only used effectively at med range doesnt mean you cannot singlefire

scar and the ak both have way less of that

the scar can doubletap people over huge distances way quicker than the fal can and if im not mistaken it has much higher velocity to back that up

but as said im also perfectly fine with the heavy hitters. they do have a purpose. all of the other guns i mentioned lack that kind of identity and are just mostly average

[zealous kelp]

i mean ak15 scar and fal are literally the same tho they are heavy hitter with big recoils the only difference are their rate of fire and some minor damage difference if you think about it

lmao

probably the gun with identity right now is acr and aug

[stone trench]

point still stands that most ar simply become obsolete compared to the groza if you can work arround the muzzle velocity and thats just one example

acr still isnt there yet and the aug really only works on med range unless you want to be at a severe disadvantage and under pressure to hit every shot perfectly

but i didnt mention the aug for good reason as one of the guns that feel the same.

grab a m4,hk419,sg,acr. they pretty much feel the same with minor differences that set them apart but nothing that makes any of them fill a different role

[zealous kelp]

acr is a middle ground between an smg and a rifle tho

fast reload, fast movement speed

and outdamages smg and pdw beyond 100m+

[stone trench]

100+ m is sth you dont encounter often and a scar or aug would do a better job at it

[zealous kelp]

100m dont encounter often what

[stone trench]

the engagements ranges that are the most often are 10-50 maybe 75 at max

[zealous kelp]

if you dont encounter that on maps like wakistan, valley, basra then idk

about you

you can probably enocunter fight like that on the new district too

[stone trench]

i didnt say you cant shoot people on longer distances cuz the map doesnt allow it. im saying that most encounters between you and an enemy are within said distance

and 100+ is extremely rare fora engagement believe it or not wth

get a rangefinder on the gun and see for yourself how far away things are. you would be surprised how close most encounters rly are

[zealous kelp]

i know how close 50m is and how far 100m mate

[stone trench]

then youre obv playing a different game cuz for me those super longrange engagements happen once every 3 matches and im far from beeing bad at the game

even in valley you rarely fight at 100+

thats neither mag efficient nor smart in any way

[zealous kelp]

its not but if it works it works and does it job

[stone trench]

100+ still isnt a realistic often seen engagement range for this game period

thats like saying a realistic engagement range in battlefield is 100m. its simply not

[zealous kelp]

its not but it happens

[stone trench]

if the guy isnt in the open youre most likely not even killing him as normal people wont stand still and a acr wont beam you on that distance quick enough to make sure you dont move. so wheres the point to shoot

its not a realistic engagement range

as said

[zealous kelp]

its not but it really happens lmao

[stone trench]

my highest range kill with the p90 is 342m. clearly the p90 is a sniper rifle by that logic

and its clearly a range i expect to hit people at

[zealous kelp]

how did you even conclude that lmao

im just saying it happens

hey you got 342m kill it happend tho

doesnt make the gun a sniper

did i say the acr becomes a sniper at 100m+?

no

im just saying the gun can out gun pdw and smg at that range

[stone trench]

not trying to be mean or anything just doesnt make any sense to me im sorry.
100+ just happens so rarely and higher ranges even less so...

342m kill was on valley when i sprayed at some guy that shot at me while i was closing the distance. lucky shot and only option to survive in that moment

[zealous kelp]

thus giving the gun a identity as a middle ground of being a rifle and smg

gun feels like an smg but its not

[stone trench]

you see the thing is if your gun is good at range but ranged engagements rarely happen then your gun has a slight problem. the scar can still fill the sniper role up to a big distance same with the aug. the acr doesnt have the stats to back that up

[zealous kelp]

it does tho lmao

and 100m isnt evena sniper range its literally a rifle range

[stone trench]

so in those rare cases where your damage acually would be higher you get outclassed by other ar anyway.
you dont have a big mag nor does it kill really fast. it also has no special low recoil in comparison to the others

[zealous kelp]

acr has low recoin tho

lmao

[stone trench]

do you even read what i say or just spit out stuff to keep me busy typing ?

in comparison to others

[zealous kelp]

comarison to what?

what gun?

[stone trench]

its not in any way or form better than the rest of the "laserbeam" assault rifles

[zealous kelp]

lmao

n4?

m4?

g36?

smg?

[stone trench]

they more or less all feel the same i listed the guns a while ago

im tired of relisting

[zealous kelp]

doesnt need to be special recoil

the recoil is good enough

to be actualyl spray 100m+

[stone trench]

oof you dont understand a word of what im saying but its alright. point stands : if you look at all the non heavy hitting ars :

faster ttk weapons screw you over in cq, high engagement distances rarely are a thing so you cant really play out that advantage too often if you want to be anywhere near mag efficient and impact the game.
the bigger mags ruin any of those guns so you cant really compare them to sth like the p90 either. theyre just average filler guns rn

[zealous kelp]

i mean the point was identity of the gun no the ttk tho but ok

[stone trench]

at this point im pretty sure youre trolling

[zealous kelp]

arent we talking about the identity of the gun?

or are we talking about how fast the gun kills?

at cqc

[hoary rivet]

I don’t understand the weapon identity argument. I vibe with the g36c and the acr but do worse with the ak74 and the m4. I do really good with the ak15 and the FAL but can’t use the scar to save my life. Despite these weapons being incredibly similar there’s still a noticeable performance difference for me between them. It’s fine to have guns like that. There don’t need to be 3 ars that are just generic all rounder, generic not quite smg, generic not quite dmr…

Some people are out there fragging with the aug and I spawned in, fired it at a wall and instantly killed myself to switch to a different gun

[zealous kelp]

nah i get him where he wants every gun to be unique

but like he is saying something where m4 g36 etc he mentioned feels similar when

literally scar, ak15 and fal literally are similar guns too

[hoary rivet]

I get what he’s saying but I disagree that it’s a problem

[winter stirrup]

Any talks about the FAL? I feel like it's default vertical recoil should get brought down to 1.40 and the horizontal should be an even 2.00

[zealous kelp]

there individual guns you know check the whole feedback

[winter stirrup]

im such a fucking idiot xDDDDDDDD

[zealous kelp]

and nah its fine

the gun is very good at cqc

that recoil really doesnt amtter

[remote pier]

Okay, Idk how reasonable this would be to implement but could we get the ballistic arc for any gun firing 5.56x45mm NATO rounds to intersect both at 100 meters and 300 meters like actual 5.56 rounds do in real life.

For context if you think of the zero on a scope or sights as a straight line through space that intersects the arc of the bullet at 1 or 2 points then I think the 100m and 300m of the zero line should intersect as the (basically) do in real life for (basically) anything firing 5.56mm NATO.

Also while I'm here, could the notches on the scopes change depending on your zero and/(or) the round being shot?

[zealous kelp]

this feels like more of a milsim than the arcadey since you want realism

[remote pier]

normally I like Arcady stuff, I like arma but only with friends. To me battle bit feels like Battlefield 3 on the xbone.

[wraith radish]

Sights that are supposed to have real range markers and range estimation should at least have those (eg acog)

Should be 100, 200, 300 on the ^, then 100 each line with the line matching the width of a standing person

Some of the dmrs can hit like 900m within the ^ right now 😄

[zealous kelp]

You sure about that claim?

[wraith radish]

Yeah, i've tested it

[zealous kelp]

Without zeroing?

[wraith radish]

Aiming as high as possible to still hit on the falldown targets in the test range

Yep

[zealous kelp]

Care to take a video?

[wraith radish]

I think it was the EBR?

[zealous kelp]

Lmao

You think?

[wraith radish]

Was a bit ago, there's only 4 gimme a sec 😛

90% ebr, I don't use anything else

[zealous kelp]

Yeah take a video show it

Cuz the m200 has the highesr velocity in game

Cant even do that

I think your perception of distance is far off

[remote pier]

in real live the Acog's zero starts at 300m. then goes out by 100m every tick.

I do know that

[wraith radish]

Sorry, misremembered it was the 400m marker on the scope

[zealous kelp]

400m seems more realistic

[wraith radish]

No? the first line under the chevron is marked with a 4 for a reason

[remote pier]

that's right, the zero (the chevron) is 300

well never mind then

[wraith radish]

The bottom of the chevron is, yes

[remote pier]

I knew the first tick was 400

I didn't know it was that effecient

that's really cool

[remote pier]

Thank you for showing me that I learned something new!

[zealous kelp]

Thats not even

Bruh

[wraith radish]

Are you unable to read the rangefinder?

[remote pier]

What's your zero at

[wraith radish]

Shown in the video, 0

[remote pier]

yup just saw it

Whack, but cool

[zealous kelp]

you said at the ^

you literally just raised your gun

[wraith radish]

And then I corrected myself and said the first line, which is still 400m

I misremembered

Point is, scope's wrong, by like 2.5x

[zealous kelp]

checking ebr

bullet drop off

starts at 250m

green marker = headshot

[wraith radish]

(also, til the last target is at 950, which is why I never could find a farther one

[zealous kelp]

you can see i had to raise my scope little higher at 250m

tested 400m

ebr if you shoot at the head your bullet drops around the leg part

so no ebr cant shoot straight on 400m at the middle

this gun can shoot straight upto 200m tho

[wraith radish]

Anyway, point is, scopes that should allow for accurate range finding and distance adjustment, don't

(Just looked the line widths are way off too - though that might be because BB dudes are WIDE)

[zealous kelp]

meh range finding is fine

i know this is for assault rifles but have you checked the leaders class binoculars lmao

#1138533538887643136 message

kek

[olive oracle]

Hello, all i thinks Scorpion EVO need a little buff for it's playable. Technically is an Special AR and not a PM so why this range is so close ? i thinks a little upgrade of range can be good and a little decreased of the kick or juste can possible to use a canon attachement.

[thorny rivet]

it's a carbine yes but the version in game is an smg the range is justified looking at how fast this thing kills

a little recoil reduction could help with usability tho

[burnt fractal]

Remove any gun after the M4A1

[mental fern]

needs a tad more damage at range and reach capability (all of them)

[hardy sedge]

Some mix of improved handling and velocity is needed. That orr player movement speed has to be nerfed across the board.

Many ARs aren't that threatening even before damage falloff kicks in due to how easy it is to just zoom around dodging bullets at longer distances.

[inner hawk]

I feel like the SMGs in this game kinda smack everything within 50-75 meters. That 100-250 meter range should really be an AR's strong suit, but the visual kick seems a little high, combined with the bullet velocity being a tad low. The movement feels way too fast and sometimes jumping around like a madman works to not get hit.

[inner hawk]

Edit: I felt almost a similar feeling in the new COD MW2. Some people went insane on movement tech in that game, and it can absolutely work better than having more gun skill. Seems a little counter intuitive, but it's an opinion!

[mental fern]

also agree that the recoil could be nerfed a bit too

[burnt fractal]

Nerf m4

[austere forum]

I don’t see why it should need a nerf

ak74 is better

[zealous kelp]

buff hk419

[burnt fractal]

It's a better but worse M4

[zealous kelp]

so buff

[burnt fractal]

Just give it a not shitty quick mag

[zealous kelp]

and buffs

[burnt fractal]

And buffs

[zealous kelp]

yes

[neat plinth]

I'm begging you just make the starter rifles not total laserbeams at 300 meters

[thorny rivet]

they aren't, not in any way, even 100m with slip, vert grip, tac barrel is not optimal, buff the others if they need it, nerfing guns that are the starting point for balance is uhhhm unoptimal

[hoary rivet]

the acr has the lowest vertical recoil of every ar and it kicks enough to not laser consistently at 150m, i don't understand where you get 300m laser from on guns with more recoil

[soft fog]

No single assault rifle can laser beyond 80m. At that range it takes skill to hit your shots

[burnt fractal]

Especially whenever a sane person gets shot they will start pogoing around

[neat plinth]

I'm gonna be honest, but it's not that hard to stay on target at 125+ meters with an M4

Especially with the meta attachments

I wouldn't have a 200+ meter longest range kill with the M4 if it was hard to do

[soft fog]

Youre full of shit if youre trying to tell me you regularly get 200m+ kills on the m4

Those happen but are rare as fuck

[hoary rivet]

i have a 127m kill with the vector, where i just sprayed and hit a recon who was on 1 hp, does that mean the vector destroys at 100+ meters?

[neat plinth]

This is complete apples to oranges, the damage model isn't comparable

[soft fog]

On a still target? Sure. But if someone is running 120m from you youre not gonna hit him with your m4 easily. Youll need to lead your shots

If your aim is good thats good for you, that doesnt mean the m4 needs a nerf

[neat plinth]

If people aren't leading shots at range, I'm not sure why they play the game

You have to lead shots at like 50 meters

[hoary rivet]

but that's what you literally just did. regardless of the damage model. i have a 143m kill on the fal, i tap fired for that. 150m on the ak15 same thing. the rest of my ar's are under 100m because that's both where the majority of engagements occur, but also because i don't like wasting ammo on someone across the map from me

[soft fog]

Im saying youre good for hitting those long range shots, 99% of the playerbase dont have remotey as good aim and thats why the m4 is perfectly fine

Noobs need a gun like the m4 thats accurate, because their low skill would otherwise make it impossible for them to hit any shots at all

[neat plinth]

I'm just saying that the M4 could do with a little more kick and it would still be incredibly good

[soft fog]

Literally why tho

What are you trying to achieve

Ask yourself

WHY

[neat plinth]

I'm trying to achieve some degree of parity with pretty much every other assault rifle, even the comparably good ones

[soft fog]

G36c just got a buff for example that will probably make it a direct upgrade to the m4

[hoary rivet]

if you nerf the m4, which is available at level 0 and has direct competition with the ak74 also available at level 0, then why would anyone ever use the m4?

when the ak74 would just be outright better

[neat plinth]

That's why I said the starter ARs both needed a bit of a nerf

[soft fog]

This would be really discouraging for new players who already feel outgunned by experienced players

[neat plinth]

The moment you get the best in slot attachments, they're just insane performers with next to no competition

[hoary rivet]

they don't though

[neat plinth]

Newer players are already outgunned by experienced players who have best in slot

The guns are already good, but the best in slot attachments are insane

[soft fog]

Whats your point? You wanna make it worse? For what gain?

[hoary rivet]

their recoil is already higher than every other ar (except the scar, the ak15, the fal, and for some reason the ak5c)

[neat plinth]

Maybe this is more of an attachment balance issue

[hoary rivet]

even the famas has less

[soft fog]

They also just buffed the famas

G36 sg550 and famas will look like really good competitors next update

[hoary rivet]

i haven't had a chance to use the ak5c post-buff, idk if it's decent or not

[soft fog]

M4 is completely fine

[neat plinth]

If they buff every gun to be just as good, I guess that's one way to fix it

[hoary rivet]

it was cheeks before though

[neat plinth]

It's just kinda jarring how punchy most other guns feel and then switching over to the M4 and AK74 is like playing CoD

[hoary rivet]

as far as i can tell most guns are very close in ttk, there's obvious outliers (looking at you fal) but they're MOSTLY compensated for in other ways (low mag size, higher recoil, long reload, etc etc) i switch between most ar's pretty indiscriminately just depending on my mood

(never the aug though)

[neat plinth]

I'm a guns should feel punchy believer

The AUG is legitimately bad

[hoary rivet]

someone keeps saying it's not that bad, i will let them have their opinion while i never touch it again

[neat plinth]

I picked it up for about 10 minutes and got like 5 kills because it's so inconsistent

[hoary rivet]

i shot at a wall with it after spawning in with it and immediately hit respawn and swapped off it

[neat plinth]

Immediately dropped

[soft fog]

You underestimate the complete lack of skill in the general battlebit population

[hoary rivet]

to an earlier point you mentioned, i do think attachments need a lot of work

i'd really like to see more options (stocks and ammo types for example)

let me have my 9mm m4

[neat plinth]

I guess so, usually I find people to be at least competent in the gunfighting department even if they utterly fail in their utility roles

Say what you will about medics not doing their job, but they know how to fight

[hoary rivet]

a lot of the people playing medic are the... sweatier variety

myself included, i just want to do well and not feel reliant on a squad/team that is totally random

[neat plinth]

That's why I'm somewhat skeptical of labeling the majority of people who play the game as needing a crutch of some sort

The player count has dissipated a lot and the dedicated players are most of who's left

Us being those people

[hoary rivet]

i think there was a discussion on this in another thread, apparently the population drop is actually within expectations compared to a lot of other games (including the big call of duty)

[neat plinth]

I'd say most players are average to good at general infantry duties

[hoary rivet]

so i'm not too worried about it, especially with more updates coming

[neat plinth]

Yeah it's not catastrophic or anything, but the quality of players is proportionately more experienced than before

Which is good imo, but at the same time, it means newbie guns end up becoming crutches for meta slaves and sweats

[hoary rivet]

yeah, it also depends what lobby size you play. 127 is absolute chaos (but 127 frontline is where the adderal kids are at), 64 feels like a good mix, and 32 also felt sweaty before

well, the ak74 and the m4 are both solid weapons until you get levels and at 15 you get the ak15, one of the a+/s tier weapons

[neat plinth]

I would describe the AK-15 as acquired taste, being my most used gun

[soft fog]

I just hate using the ak15

[neat plinth]

It's absolutely not for everyone

[hoary rivet]

oh for sure, but i dig it sometimes. i can play the ak15, the scar, or the fal just depending on my mood

[soft fog]

I can click heads all day with the m4 tho

[neat plinth]

You almost have to play it slower and more like a tactical shooter to get the most out of it

[hoary rivet]

or just put an smg on and brain off try to out-mechanics people

[neat plinth]

I will say, I had a ton of fun on night mode sunset while using the FLIR

It feels like using a real gun if you just tapfire it

So it activates my lizard brain

[hoary rivet]

yeah and the people not doing that think the weapons suck. the people who are doing it tho... i tend to remember the people who can beat me with consistency

i make it a point to just, stay off their side of the map and we both have good games

[neat plinth]

I think the AK-15 could use way less side to side recoil

Side recoil just kills ARs

If it's supposed to be a more punchy rifle that can reach out and touch people, side recoil kind of defeats the purpose

So it's a bit of an inconsistent mid-range rifle, but very good up close if you play it slow and steady

[hoary rivet]

losing some of it's horizontal wouldn't be too bad but i really wouldn't want to bring it down by much. it's a 3 hit kill out to ~150m and i'd be loathe to make that consistent

[neat plinth]

Yeah that would be a bit much

I'd probably hate dealing with it more than the M4

Just having it be consistent at mid-range would be ideal

[hoary rivet]

if you haven't yet try it with the bcm-gun fighter grip, goes a long way to tame that side-to-side

[neat plinth]

I exclusively use that grip for the AK-15

[hoary rivet]

i use it for all 3 of the big ar's, their vertical movement isn't very much

[neat plinth]

I'd argue the game needs some parts that are much more dedicated toward toning down side recoil

[hoary rivet]

the se-5 is nice if you're a better aimer than me though

[neat plinth]

You could avoid over-buffing weapons just by giving parts a purpose

1/2 to 2/3 of the grips are useless

Even worse for muzzle devices

There's maybe three good ones

[hoary rivet]

i just really want to make a scar-h with collapsed stock, extended mag, and something to push it's ads speed up so i can have a max recoil smg-h

[burnt fractal]

Dude is probably meaning a random spray that just so happens to kill a dude almost dead

[neat plinth]

Nah, you can absolutely magdump stationary guys at that range at full health (probably was a recon with no armor to be fair)

It's why parts probably need a rebalance moreso than the gun

[hoary rivet]

yeah, 3 good barrels (long, tactical, osprey on the guns that have it), like 4 good grips (bcm for side-to-side, se-5 for general reduction, vertical for up/down control, b-25 for reload speed)

[burnt fractal]

Who is going to stay stationary when getting shot at? I need to go against those guys in my lobbies...

[neat plinth]

As I cannot recall when or how I got that kill, I can only assume so much

[burnt fractal]

People don't listen when I say 80% of the attachments are useless LMAO

[neat plinth]

You would be surprised by some players in 127vs lobbies

I think I question life at least once or twice a match just because of player behavior

[sour steeple]

I thought AUG was at least good for vehicle DPS

[hoary rivet]

also, another tip for the heavy ar's (Scar, fal, ak15), use lean, i find it easier to stay on target while doing so

[sour steeple]

Or at least not as bad as other ARs.

[neat plinth]

I've noticed this as well, not sure what's up with that

Might be a weird code thing to do with camera angle and recoil mechanics

It's why I say going slow with the AK-15 is the way

[hoary rivet]

my best guess is it's the horizontal recoil being the stronger of the 2 so leaning causes the motion to be more up/down than left/right

[neat plinth]

The more you lean corners and don't draw attention to yourself with rapid movement, you get away with so much

[hoary rivet]

and the vertical being mostly upwards is just gonna be a slight pull up-left or up-right

[neat plinth]

That would be incredibly odd, but I have a lot of questions about weapon balance at launch as it is

[hoary rivet]

the aug used to be really good for killing heli-pilots

i dont think it's good after the change the heli glass reducing bullet damage

[neat plinth]

It was much better in pre-release betas

Not sure why or how it was changed, but it sucks

[hoary rivet]

let me get a conversion kit on the aug, turn that b- into an smg

lol

[neat plinth]

The AUG Para is such a neat gun

[sour steeple]

Last I played was in the playtests, waiting to see how early balance settles before I buy.
Could be why I remember AUG being alright on some vehicles.

[hoary rivet]

recoil seems mostly random based on the recoil values, doing the same mouse movements and getting different results while testing

[neat plinth]

A lot of guns that used to be goated in the playtests suck now, but most of them are getting buffed again

[hoary rivet]

but leaning definitely ups my consistency

[neat plinth]

Like the AS VAL

Used to main that all the time, but now it's bad until the update

It was almost the same role as how I use the AK-15 now

[burnt fractal]

M16a4 where

[hoary rivet]

i'm down

make burst actually good tho plz

my toxic trait is thinking i could actually control a mag dump at 150m with the ak15

[neat plinth]

I'm built different (I can't actually do this either)

[burnt fractal]

Or an94

[neat plinth]

I think the AN-94 is slated to be in the game

Gonna shit my pants when it's more of a laser than the M4

If it's not, then they're actually doing the gun wrong

[hoary rivet]

i'm def looking forward to new guns. much more excited for new maps

[austere forum]

AUG

[zealous kelp]

100% aug can laser

m4 and ak74 can still slightly beam you at 100m

[eternal bane]

M4 for sure beams. Barely any recoil with the attachments. Essentially a SMG in the AR category.

[gritty laurel]

i wish there wasnt such a level gap for the scar

[eternal bane]

What if instead of one gun per 5 level, people get to choose between two guns. AK15 or Scar, M4 or ak74, etc. Just throwing the idea there.

[hoary rivet]

i'm just praying we'll get tokens to perma unlock weapons with each prestige

[gritty laurel]

that would be awesome

[burnt fractal]

I take back what I said about the acr

[austere forum]

ACR isn’t that bad but I don’t think I’d ever use it

SG550 if it reloaded and aimed slower but moved slightly faster

[dusky lantern]

this is so deranged

like only the honey badger and kh416 on that list could be considered truly bad

like you really gonna call mp5, g36c, and groza bad? what kind of crack is this guy smoking

[austere forum]

HB isn’t very good but HK isn’t exactly bad

But I’m assuming his copy paste thing was a joke

[dusky lantern]

yeah, HK416 is very serviceable, just not as good as its contemporaries

i really do hope that's a copypasta

[hoary rivet]

That entire list only the aug is bad imo.

And the prebuff ak5c, haven’t used it since the update, hopefully it’s decent

[dusky lantern]

even the AUG is situationally really good. you have to treat it like a full auto DMR; it doesn't do well up close, but excels at mid to long ranges

[burnt fractal]

I like it

[hoary rivet]

dope. i'll try it when i unlock it again

[burnt fractal]

I can't seen what he wrote since discord block feature is actually doing what it's supposed to. If its what I wrote then it's just pasta to get replies

[austere forum]

like 4 people here have blocked me now lol

this doesn't happen in other game communities

[zealous kelp]

needs buff

[burnt fractal]

Not sure why I had you blocked -- anyways that's the meme post. Just to get replies.

[burnt fractal]

I think the only true 'bad' guns are - Any pistol not the G18/Deagle, DMRs, SG550 (before the coming up buff), any sniper not the M200, honey badger, and AUG.

[tropic mango]

bring back the heavy barrel's old damage(3 points of dmg) to make some assault rifles great again. Some will get the 3 shot kill ability and it will kinda prevent people to abuse smgs maybe

[austere forum]

I think that’d be a bit unbalanced

[sour steeple]

Just add a super heavy barrel that adds 42 damage but requires bipod to use and has a very slow turn rate, boom!

[soft fog]

Unica is really good

I also think sg550 is better than HK for example

[fading fern]

Think the balances are going in the right direction but i think a lot of the guns here still need a lot of love. Smg's late game and PD's are still the better option of 90% of the assault rifles. i would like to see some the less used guns getting love like the HK.

[austere forum]

The ACR needs another buff imo.

[zealous kelp]

i think the acr is fine at is but i wouldnt mind another buff

[rapid kite]

Still an underwhelming gun

[burnt fractal]

Deagle is a better unica. Sg is getting a lower muzzle flash so it'll be fine now

I've honestly been doing well at getting headshots with it

[austere forum]

deagle is a better unica except it makes you run slower

which is pretty significant

[soft fog]

Personally the running speed makes the deagle not worth it to me. I only use my secondary rarely anyway

[brisk mulch]

ill still never get why AR's have so little bullets. You compare them to smg's in a meta where move speed lets us run and gun and spray down multiple enemies with fast reload. AR's slow reload can't move fast, less bullets then smg's? Med-long range isnt' an argument when majority of the maps favor cqc cause half the people will hide in buildings.

[soft fog]

You can use the extendo mag. Although admittedly the downsides are terrible and not worth it

[brisk mulch]

its pointless cause of how they handle recoil and movespeed in this game

they have to hard buff extend mags or just give AR's all 5-10 more in the natural mag. till then ill prob just keepign holding w with smg's and farm kills <shurg>

[austere forum]

Wdym by that? They can generally kill more per mag than SMGs

With the exception of the PP2000 post-upcoming-buff, I think

[brisk mulch]

your thinking perfect world where people stand still

[austere forum]

???

What’s that got to do with anything

[brisk mulch]

cause gameplay differes from "math says per/mag"

[hoary rivet]

Then the smgs get even worse mag economy

[austere forum]

If you’re talking about how many kills you can get in a mag then it doesn’t.

If a gun has twice the ammo capacity it will on average be able to kill twice as many people before reloading, that applies in game as much as it does on paper.

ARs on average have a kill/mag potential of something like 6.5, I think for SMGs it’s more like 5.75

[brisk mulch]

its the combo of move speed and smg/pdw allow me to just full clear with drop mags. ar's outside of the FAl nope

[austere forum]

With an SMG you get a couple % more movement, but you trade longer range capability and mag size. I think it’s a fair trade.

[hoary rivet]

And the ars are still strong up close you just won’t win if you get caught sprinting

[brisk mulch]

this is like saying a player can shoot 90% from FT in practice, then in a actual game he's Dwight Howard can't hit 55% form the line

[austere forum]

I have no idea what that’s even supposed to mean

If you can kill more in a mag you will be able to kill more in a mag

There is nothing more to it

[brisk mulch]

your just arguing math

lmao but ingame

ther's 0 way

cause of how its designed

[austere forum]

Have you considered that this game occurs in a computer

It’s quite applicable

[hoary rivet]

The smgs have worse real mag economy due to their fire rate

So he’s wrong both ways

[soft fog]

M4 with 35 or 40 bullets would be kinda crazy strong though

[brisk mulch]

and again teh current game play favors heavy flanking style fast pace, with smgs for a reason. AR's can't even remortly clear at the same pace bceause it has 6.7/per a mag

you keep acting like people have aimbot

the avg player prob can't aim even 50% on target ingame

[austere forum]

Irrelevant.

[gilded smelt]

I think the ACR is fine ngl. It’s kind of in the same boat as the UMP where the damage isn’t great but it’s super consistent which is a benefit.

[austere forum]

It doesn’t affect how the guns perform in comparison to each other

[brisk mulch]

that the most illogical thing you could say

performance in game doesn't matter?

you high?

[austere forum]

SMGs I would argue are generally worse options than ARs for a fast paced playstyle, but with the upcoming PP2000 buffs that might change

[brisk mulch]

what you smoke get me some

[austere forum]

What?

[brisk mulch]

you keep arguing

on paper

[austere forum]

That is nothing to do with what I said

[brisk mulch]

dude that's all your saying

[austere forum]

The game is deterministic.

[brisk mulch]

do you play the game?

[austere forum]

If one gun can kill up to 10 people in a mag, and another 5.

I would like you to explain exactly how it’s possible that gun #2 is going to be able to kill more than gun #1

[austere forum]

Yes.

[brisk mulch]

you're talking in a perfect would where the avg person could hit 100% of their shots lmao. Even competive server majority use mp7 for a reason. You multi kill and claer rooms faster and easier. AR's do not unless you slap on ex-mag on Fal and hope no one shoots back at you.

w/e 0 objective standpoint this guy. ignores actual gameplay lol. blocked. burning brain cells

[austere forum]

Honestly, this again?

The hit ratio you have is irrelevant.

You can have 1% accuracy and it will still be directly applicable for gun comparisons.

[brisk mulch]

just searching this guy name so many people call him out on the bs lmao wtf long barrel on AK5c cause Math guys

wtf

guy prob doesn't have 1kdr

[austere forum]

-_-

[brisk mulch]

can't argue the original point just types 6.5 vs 5 clearly im right

doesn't even know what Free throws practice vs ingame means

[austere forum]

That debate in particular was mainly just Eleanor being toxic because I guess they don’t know that much about statistics

[hoary rivet]

You’re the one ignoring actual gameplay. Smgs will typically use more ammo on a kill due to the fire rate. In 4.5k kills with vector I’m averaging 2-3 kills per mag despite an expected ttk of 5 shots equaling 7 kills

[brisk mulch]

dude plz

scroll up

[burnt fractal]

True. I run g18 now because of this

[brisk mulch]

and read my original point

where in a meta of movespeed and smg's ttk. you just clear faster then an AR can

[austere forum]

You still have totally dodged the question, will I have to ask it again

Can you explain why a theoretical kills per mag stat would not be directly applicable to the game?

[brisk mulch]

and map design

[hoary rivet]

Dude, I read the whole thing. AR’s are fine. The smg move speed diff isn’t that high, stop getting caught sprinting and wondering how you lose the duel

[gilded smelt]

I don’t even understand what the argument is. What are you each trying to convey?

[brisk mulch]

? im not losing duels

[hoary rivet]

Also extended FAL kekw, short mag FAL is the way

[austere forum]

Getting that 2% faster movement will help but it won’t make a huge difference on its own. Consider all factors rather than focusing on only one.

[brisk mulch]

i nver use extend mag on fal only quick

[gilded smelt]

“Come use the short mag, short mag FAL is the best!”

I hate reloading! I hate reloading! You’ll never take me alive!

[brisk mulch]

and i will never get 80kill games unlike p90 or mp7

as many times

[hoary rivet]

I get 70-80 kills games with any ar. I did it with the hk416 and the pre buff acr when I didn’t even have attachments

It’s easy

[austere forum]

I should really just find the average stats for ARs and SMGs just to show the differences between them in a clearer manner

[soft fog]

True ARs are completely viable. M4 is goated as fuck

[gilded smelt]

I mean i wouldn’t say it’s easy, but it’s certainly not much harder to do than it is with an SMG.

[hoary rivet]

Fair. I mean I’m not that good at shooters anymore, age catching up with me and all that. But like, if I can do it damn near anyone can

I do worse with smgs typically because my slowing reflexes let me down

[gilded smelt]

I can’t lol, most kills I’ve had in a match was 69 and that was a Basra match where I used the suicide c4 exclusively

[hoary rivet]

I had a 98-35 with prenerf vector, prolly the closest I’ll get to 100

[brisk mulch]

the effort and ez with smg's vs ar's is not even the same level right now.

i did 113-21 vector prenerf cause why use any other gun

p90 just did 83-17

meanhile ak-15 either oyu sit there and even if you rush

its woopie

[hoary rivet]

AR’s are actually easier because you can just sit there and let people run into your crosshairs

So free

[austere forum]

AK-15 will kill faster :3

[brisk mulch]

people shoot back bruh waiting is death setence in any game mode otuside onf conquest

[gilded smelt]

Damn you guys it’s almost like different options are viable for different play styles or something, and it all comes down to what you personally prefer.

[brisk mulch]

i wish they showed kdr per wep

and kpm

[austere forum]

Would be biased towards later unlocks

Would need to show it at a specific level

Even then would be biased against less popular weapons as less popular ones will be less likely to be kitted out

So you’d have to only consider fully progressed guns at a specific level

[brisk mulch]

fyi i don't think solar reads cause i see is,

cause just searching his name 100 of post of people calling him dense lol the fk

anyway enjoy the game hfhf

[austere forum]

People just seem to have some disdain for mathematics here

[brisk mulch]

kid prob has negative kpm, BUT MATH

[austere forum]

ad hominem yet again

[brisk mulch]

can't beleive someone doesnt' understand 90% FT in practice, vs 55% in game means. delusional

[austere forum]

irrelevant :D

[gilded smelt]

Okay so anyway, what kind of optics do you guys like to run on ARs? I used to use the slip a lot but now I prefer to use the tube red dot, not the aimpoint but the other one. I can’t remember the name.

[hoary rivet]

Red dot always

[austere forum]

yeah I use slip on just about everything

[gilded smelt]

My aim isn’t the greatest so I feel like dot reticles work better for me because I can see more of the target tbh, ring/dot reticles make it harder for me to see what I’m shooting at

[hoary rivet]

Yep that’s why I use the basic red dot on everything

[gilded smelt]

I like the tube sights because it helps me get the reticle centered faster

[burnt fractal]

Yeah rds is pretty much goated

[near steppe]

Like I said about attachments most of the assault weapons need a pass. There isn't enough identity or justication for them to be so mediocre.

Take the ACR for example. You unlock the weapon at 110 but it is LITERALLY IN EVERY STAT a worse m4.

The acr has less damage, less armor pen, more recoil, less velocity, slower reload, slower draw speed (I think my point is made)

The ACR (like the M4) was designed to be an upgrade to the m16 in most ways. It shoots the same caliber (5.56) as the m4, has a 2inch longer barrel (which should help with velocity), has a higher weight (which should help with recoil).

I just genuinely don't understand why a weapon that you unlock after 110 levels is literally worse in every way to a base gun. It's the same case for many of the AR's

[hoary rivet]

the acr does actually have less recoil. it has more horizontal sure, not enough total for it to matter. it's reload is also faster than the m4. the acr also has a very nice 1.05 move speed to the m4a1's 1.00 and a faster ads speed with an identical draw time

do you people actually look at the stats before you type these massive posts?

in fact if you want to talk about attachments on the 2 weapons, the quick B mag on the acr puts it to a neat 35 round mag giving it 5 more rounds than the base and quick mag m4. if you use the extended mag on the m4 then it's worse than the acr in nearly every way (with nearly a 2 second longer reload and almost double the aim down time, oh and a speed penalty bringing the m4 down from 1.00 to .75 to the acr's 1.03 comparing fully kitted weapons) for 5 more rounds.

[burnt fractal]

ACR has a 2.5s reload speed which I think is one of the fastest

[austere forum]

The long barrel also makes a very big difference to the ACR

[burnt fractal]

I dont use it

I tried hb with hk419 and the horizontal was too much for my liking. Tactical always

[rich siren]

AK-15 is fucking goated

That’s my feedback

[hoary rivet]

accurate

[zealous kelp]

another day of saying hk419 should be buff

[burnt fractal]

Just give it fast mags that don't suck

[zealous kelp]

yes and buff

[burnt fractal]

I think its fine just give it quick mags that don't suck

24... wtf

[zealous kelp]

no it needs buff

[burnt fractal]

Maybe 1 damage

[zealous kelp]

maybe more rof

[burnt fractal]

Ehhh maybe 700 to match M4?

[zealous kelp]

yes max of 700 i think any more of that its op

[rich siren]

Yeah would be fine with this tbh

[eternal bane]

got my first long distance 399m on my scar. travel time on the bullet felt like 2 seconds.

Quick mag without recoil penalties would be nice

[neat plinth]

Can the ak74 short mag be buffed to be more in line with how short mags work for other guns(mp7, FAL, mk20, m110, etc)

Or at least so that it doesn't increase the ads time almost as much as the extended does.

[fluid silo]

got a question, just me that feels like the SG550 could use a tiny tiny bit more damage?

out of all the guns, this is the one that people just soak up its bullets

idk if it just has high damage drop off or something but i just need so many bullets to take out people

[eternal bane]

i havent tried it, but it seems like it goes with teh AUG. high accuracy, drop off by 250m, can full auto with low recoil.

[fluid silo]

if i was to compare the recoil id compare it to an M4

[burnt fractal]

SG has the fastest sight-up time.
At least to me it feels like it

[austere forum]

indeed

[onyx flint]

I think one simple way to buff AR's as a whole would be simply to give them a slightly bigger mag option so that smgs are not as big of a threat to them in every instance.

[hoary rivet]

they have bigger mag options, the bigger mag options suck because attachments are all trash

[zealous kelp]

i think they should just introduce damage reduction on different level of armor like exo armor would take way less damage when getting hit by an smg rounds compared to AR rounds ( ar still reducd but not as much as smg rounds since its exo armor). each level of armor would have different intereaction with different bullet rounds which are sperated in 3 category to simplify it by smg rounds, rifle rounds and sniper rounds). idk just finding ways to make people actually use different armor and different guns.

like light/ranger armor would take 5% damage reduction on all round type then normal armor would take 7% damage reduction on all smg rounds but 5% damage reduction on AR and Sniper. then heavy armor like 10% on smg then 7% on rifle 5% on snipers. idk just throwing out ideas.

[hoary rivet]

you want to make support even more frustrating to deal with?

i already am so sick of support players being walking tanks

[spring moss]

buff aug

[zealous kelp]

yes

[fluid silo]

ive never had problems with support players 💀

most of the time i just shoot them in the chest and they drop

and isnt that the whole point of the armor? the whole point of the support class moving at the speed of a grandma? so that they can tank? that use is being as slow as a snail if you cant take a couple shots from an SMG

[zealous kelp]

yeah its just wierd you get like shredded with smgs even if you have exo/heavy armor

[fluid silo]

i also find it funny how mp9 has such high damage compared to other ARs like famas and SG

famas is understandable because it shreds

but SG550 even has a slower firerate than mp5

with higher recoil

[hoary rivet]

Armor is awful, the implementation is trash and is the exact reason we’re shooting legs instead of chests when possible

So no I don’t want to buff it

Also, ar’s are more than competitive at smg ranges I get my shit rocked regularly point blank by ak15s, scars, g36s etc

[fluid silo]

idk man, unless im completely looking the other way, i rarely get rocked by ARs at any range

[hoary rivet]

I think you guys are just poisoned by sbmm gaming and don’t realize how large the skill gap really is

[fluid silo]

tf is sbmm gaming

[hoary rivet]

Skill based matchmaking/engagement optimized matchmaking that has become increasingly prevalent in modern games

[fluid silo]

idk what to tell you dude, i dont die to ARs in close range nearly as much as i die to smgs. or just die to ars as much as i die to smgs in general

[hoary rivet]

I barely die to smgs. It’s almost always ak15/scar/fal.

Actually more accurately I think a majority of my deaths are recons, claymores, or ap mines ruining my flank or an ar

Occasionally a groza, pretty much never an smg

[zealous kelp]

ive seen a lot of mp5 and pp2000 my previous games this week idk must be luck meeting a lot of them i guess 🤷

[hoary rivet]

Pp2000 just got buffed, people trying it but I don’t die to them

[zealous kelp]

also what modern game uses this kind of armor system beside pubg and csgo

doesnt apex and fortnite like uses armor system like bbr like its only hp and no damage reduction?

what does warzone use? never played the game

checking warzone it says they use extra health style armor

[hoary rivet]

Yes but they don’t have 2 separate hit boxes with 2 separate health pools on their armor

The implementation fails because aiming for chest shots can result in recoil/flinch hit headshots and now you’ve “wasted” a bullet (particularly when dealing with supports this causes situations where they actually have closer to 210 hp) which typically means you auto lose to anyone capable of aiming

[zealous kelp]

yeah idk i still dont make sense if its just hp on that body and your exo armor still get shredded by smgs because it just adds hp.

if its like damage reduction it could make support classes more durable

as that what they should be

[hoary rivet]

Speaking as an smg player, we really don’t. There’s a huge difference in how much damage supports take and it’s already annoying

Fighting a fresh support player I’ve just resigned myself to spending whole mags killing them

[burnt fractal]

This

Armor should reduce a flat %. And affect smgs harder than ARs

[thorny rivet]

support is so dummy thiccc that by the time you readied your gun and started shooting your armor is gone
and remember we don't have high ttk - apart from l86 lb - guns, making us able to kill maybe one person if we're in a bad spot, but then we also can't easily reposition so the armor is absoluty stupid

[hoary rivet]

Supports already take nearly twice as long to kill as everyone else. How much more hp do you need? Do you need juggernog or smth?

How about fixing the core issues with support instead of bandaid more hp?

I really just don’t understand support complaints. You list all these problems (slow movement, slow ads speed, slow reload, weapons being weak or awkward to use), and then your grand solution to all these problems is to just give support more health. Stupid.

[burnt fractal]

Should be 100 hp.. armor gives flat %

[hoary rivet]

that could work, maybe. but we have an armor system in place they could just fuckin fix it, tune down support total health with armor and buff all their unnecessarily slow everything to compensate, throw in a fucking qol fix where when the armor is gone they get back the lost movement speed from equipping that armor

congrats, support isn't awful to play

and doesn't nuke a weapon type from orbit

the % would have to be ungodly to equal or beat current ttk with a 100 hp base and armor giving a % damage reduction. even throwing 10% at smg's takes the vector from 22 needing 5 bullets to deal 100 damage down to 19.8 needing 6 bullets to deal 100 damage. which would be even faster than current ttk vs support with the vector

current vector needs 8 bullets to kill on exo armor

so actually yeah sure go for it, throw a 10% damage reduction on armor vs smg's and cap hp at 100. vector back on top baby

[thorny rivet]

never said more hp, just throwing stuff out there, anyways smgs will always and should always suck against such a heavy thick armor

[hoary rivet]

they feel awful vs thick armor rn and yet apparently it's not enough

probably because of all the other problems support has

that should be fixed

[thorny rivet]

yeah and i feel like i'm fucked after 1 fight, but anyways this is not the thread for that

[zealous kelp]

idk my idea is just making it AR can deal more damage but would still have reduction but not as much as smg since they are more armor penetrating power than smgs.

[burnt fractal]

Or just go full milsim mode and each different weapon caliber changes the amount they do to armor

[austere forum]

Currently how well any given weapon does against armour is basically just luck depending on its damage

For example MP7 happens to suffer much worse than the Vector from armour for no particular reason (vector goes from 16th to 13th while mp7 goes from 8th to 25th)

Which is fine as long as it’s balanced in consideration of this, but… it is a bit weird

[burnt fractal]

Yeah idk ttk feels so off sometimes. Even the FAL is losing in some fights. You wouldn't think that.

[hoary rivet]

ttk feels off because of armor 90% of the time

[burnt fractal]

hmmmm... maybe

[hoary rivet]

hitting multiple body shots then a headshot or vice-versa is the same as missing, due to armor

[burnt fractal]

I never miss

I've also had weird issues where I know I shoot their head but it's not a headshot

[open abyss]

I disagree. I am 2000+ kills in on the AUG. I must say that in close quarters it certainly lacks but I win every single ranged firefight with it.
I'd like to see it's rate of fire buffed to 600 and its recoil increased a little so cqb becomes a little easier and skilled players can still utilize it's long range performance.
other than that it's a great gun.

[hoary rivet]

i feel bad for aug players, "it's not bad, it's not!"

[eternal bane]

I don't see why their opinion isn't valid. A gun that sucks for you doesn't mean it sucks for the other person. I acknowledge I suck with the AUG, but I'm glad it works out for another.

I tried out the sg550 yesterday and I like it over the aug, feels quicker.

[hoary rivet]

i'm over 6000 kills into the vector (the majority of that is post-nerf) and i'm not sitting in the smg thread telling people to keep using it over the mp7 or the mp5. it's usable, i'm comfortable with it thanks to over a hundred hours of use. it's not good though. it's good overall by extension of still being an smg but it's not the smg to use. the aug is much the same. it's fine, usable sure. but don't pretend it's good when the ak15, the scar, or the fal all do it's job and then some without needing a "but".

aug needs some help

[burnt fractal]

yeah but why use any of those over M4

[hoary rivet]

why use the m4 when the g36c, the fal, the ak15, or the scarh all exist?

[burnt fractal]

m4 is more accurate full auto at range

[eternal bane]

sg550 and aug had better damage drop off and controllable recoil, but weaker in CQC. M4 is in the middle imo. Scar/AK15/FAL for medium/long range with capable CQC defense.

[austere forum]

scar/ak15/FAL are basically the primary CQC rifles

No reason to use any others if you’re gonna be in heavily CQC oriented fighting

[eternal bane]

Famas?

[austere forum]

Famas is more in the middle.

It doesn’t kill as fast as the high damage ARs

Isn’t far off though

[neat plinth]

G36C with heavy/long is pretty good. Same ttk as scar on 100-125 with less annoying recoil.

[austere forum]

Yeah

Slightly better mag as well

[burnt fractal]

Too bad the game ttk is honestly trash sometimes and even a dude with a handgun can sneeze and kill you

[toxic storm]

Starter m4 and ak74 are still good. Once fully upgraded the recoil is basically non existent

[austere forum]

I disagree with that assertion. They’re fairly low recoil guns but not exactly laser beams from longer ranges.

[toxic storm]

Sg550 in that case, much more distance before fall off start. It's only weakness would be that slightly less damage which affects its ttk.

[hoary rivet]

I’m personally a fan of the acr, actual laser beam that was good before the buffs.

[eternal bane]

Acr is a nice replacement for MP5 to me. While M4 has the point break with long barrel, I prefer higher movement speed to zip across buildings. If it has slightly higher fire rate as I suggested in the #1138200536039051314 it would be even better.

[burnt fractal]

ACR with quick-b and urk gives it 35 rounds and 2.89s normal reload

[dim basin]

Now that the DMRs are more viable and competitive to use, it would be nice to have some buffs given to the AK15 and the Scar, which used to be the stopgap for that niche before the update are just kinda dead in the water now

I'd propose upping the standard AK15 movespeed to about 98, and reducing the Scar's horizontal recoil from 2.1 to 1.6

This would separate them a bit more and cement the AK15 as the more aggressive of the two, while the Scar gets a bit more controlability to help out in slightly farther ranges

(I don't have the current stats at hand so that current horizontal might not be 100% accurate but I think I got it right)

[hoary rivet]

Cool idea but I think the FAL already fills the aggressive role of the trio. With short mag it hits 1.1 move speed (matching smgs)

[dim basin]

Jesus, that seems like it's a bit overtuned

[hoary rivet]

15 round mag and worse recoil than the other 2. Also why I’m not worried about more smg nerfs. The true smg was the FAL all along

[rich siren]

I don’t really think the AK-15 needs any buffs

Speaking as someone that does use it

[hoary rivet]

And I thought I was crazy with my 6k vector kills

[dim basin]

Jesus

[hoary rivet]

I guess I’ll hit 10k with it this prestige though. I suppose I could grind it out since I did 3.5k on the p90

[rich siren]

AK-15 is goat’d in my opinion, thought I’d try using it and only it between prestige 1 and 2 and just kinda kept using it

[hoary rivet]

Oh big agree. I just prefer the FAL. Fits my style better

But i keep prestiging so I never get to use it

[burnt fractal]

ak5c could use a decent magazine option

Same with hk419

[wraith radish]

I'd like to see tweaks to make burst fire actually useful

One thought - delay first shot kick until after the burst
Possibly apply it once per bullet in the burst for an extra big kick

So for 3rb - NoFSK, NoFSK, 3xFSK

[dim basin]

That seems pretty cool, I like it

[burnt fractal]

Could see it for an94 or m16..

[austere forum]

HK419 now outclasses the AK15, I believe

beats it in everything except base mag capacity (slightly)

[eternal bane]

Recoil will be very manageable with attachments imo. 1.3 isn't terrible

[gritty summit]

absolutely blessed change

[burnt fractal]

All it needs is a 30rd quick mag

[gilded smelt]

Assuming both the F2000 and the G3 are ARs, I’m curious to see what niche they fit into.

[austere forum]

AR is already the most populated category so it won’t be easy to avoid just making a worse/better version of another AR

[eternal bane]

Thoughts on what the stats might be for the new weapons.?

[desert owl]

F2000 typical firerate is a bout 900 in most games

[wraith radish]

Some numbers that a third of us will say are perfectly fine, a third will say makes them useless, and a third insist makes them OP

More seriously, I'm excited for a scope that is between 1 and 3x

(f2k's stock scope is 1.6x)

[austere forum]

Slip

[eternal bane]

Maybe f2000 with 850 fire rate, low damage will make it a good alternative for people that don't want recoil like Famas. 🤔. 23 Dmg is next to vector 22 dmg

[desert owl]

Low recoil high fire rate would be a good addition to the assault rifles

That's not really a niche that has been covered in that category yet

[hoary rivet]

the acr?

not fast enough?

[gilded smelt]

Not as fast as the F2000

[desert owl]

The acr rpm is 700 and has similar recoil to the sg550

It doesn't really have a niche other than being a little more mobile than the other ar's

[gilded smelt]

850 is a larger number than 700

[eternal bane]

I've gotten melted in the face by SMG with ACR due to fire rate

M4 is average. ACR has speed/ mag/reload, SG550/AUG for mid range. G36c slightly faster RoF at 750.

Hk419 seems to be with Famas/f2000/fal(?) for CQC with higher recoil.

[gilded smelt]

And more damage

[eternal bane]

I went to 400 kills with ACR before I went back to MP5 for the better RoF for fights <70m even with the damage drop off

I tried hk419 yesterday and the rof sucked imo

[desert owl]

Yeah, m4 is more geared for cqc than the hk.

[eternal bane]

The 650 RoF is a downer. But straight bump to 825 is big

[desert owl]

Yeah, I guess the update will make the hk a lot better

[eternal bane]

825 puts at or above SMG speed I think except for vector.

[austere forum]

MP7 and PP2000 are both faster as well

[eternal bane]

Slightly salty hk419 has more RoF than MP5 with better dmg drop off, but recoil keeps it in check. I'm looking forward to it

[gilded smelt]

What does?

[desert owl]

hk419

[eternal bane]

Yeah the update for hk419

[gilded smelt]

Ahh gotcha. The damage drop off makes sense because it’s an AR but I guess I see what you’re saying about the rpm. Mp5 should still have better handling and reload and such, though.

[eternal bane]

Yeah the handling is the trade off, but attachments might bring the 1.3 recoil to close to 1 I think

I think hk419 could have settled for 800 instead of 825 but we'll see

[burnt fractal]

F2k probably gonna be
27 damage
1.5V
1.3H
850+ rpm
30rd no mag option

[desert owl]

F2 needs a bit more damage, but otherwise good

literally 1-2 more damage would feel better

[eternal bane]

Would that make it too similar to famas?

[gritty summit]

you give it that and then it gains the abiliy to cross the 25 threshold with a damage barrel.

i guess they didn't want people to have access to a 4 shot kill with the f2k's negative recoil bc despite still needing more shots against any target with armor, at 850 this thing will easily be better than a lot of the other ~700/~30 ARs

[desert owl]

Maybe it's just how recent the update is, it just feels a little weird

[eternal bane]

I haven't tried in game, but with attachments, it's negligible recoil like MP5.

[austere forum]

F2k now seems fairly solid.

if people convinced themselves that the SG550 was good then I think they'll enjoy this one

though thanks to AUG buff, it may be sort of outclassed now.

AUG is just good now, even though it's been pushed out of its niche a little.

[lusty ore]

Fal scar g3 and maybe even ebr should not be in seperate classifications why are all battle rifles split apart class wise and what seems to be randomized stats regardless of the aforementioned systems actual uses

is there a reason that battle rifles are balanced this way?>

obviously the status quo of gunfights in bb are marksman for any non cqc work and ar for ~25m but how does it hurt to commit to intermediate range battlerifles as a class rather than have them overperform as marksman weapons such as g3 and under perform such as fal

especially when they can be ranged similarly to other ars as some seem to be but lack the damage that is needed to perform on par with ars in their given niche

[hoary rivet]

I like your post but if you think the FAL is underperforming I’m concerned you’re playing a different game

[burnt fractal]

Very rarely does an sg or Aug kill me

[outer ivy]

Gonna say I just played a match where I had an Aug lit 4 diff ppl up first hit all shots and still died then I re equiped my m4 and went back to handling my business.

So either later unlocked weapons need to be improved upon ooorrrr attachments need to do more

[burnt fractal]

Or both

[outer ivy]

I'd support that as well.

Don't get me wrong I like rocking the m4 but I want a reason to level up other than prestige and start again

[burnt fractal]

yeah there's little reason to use any gun that isn't the m4

[hoary rivet]

except, all the guns that are better than the m4

[outer ivy]

Not many assault rifles that are better though

[hoary rivet]

ak15/scar/fal/g36c/acr(for a more aggro style)/f2k is pretty good

shit the ak74 is like, directly competitive with the m4

over half the ar's are equal or better than it

[eternal bane]

I think the higher level AR each have their own play style

[wraith radish]

I think the f2k is my favorite ar in games generally, the stock 1.6 scope just instantly gives it a niche and flavor

[eternal bane]

M4/g36c/ak74 are general purpose. AK15/Ak15/FAL are DMR/aggro.
Famas/f2000 are pseudo SMGs short/mid range.
SG550/AUG/f2000 are long range.

[burnt fractal]

Why use the famas/f2k when the hk419 is literally better

[eternal bane]

Famas has low recoil with higher RoF.

[wraith radish]

and f2k has a usable zoom scope for full auto

[eternal bane]

I went back to MP5 after 260 kills on hk419 and I get more consistent results with MP5 🤷‍♂️.

Still trying to get better with hk419 but mid range tapping isn't my thing.

Past 70m, hk419 h recoil messes it up for me.

[wraith radish]

(I wish we had more 1.5-2.5 scopes in general, but that might be actually a complaint about the recoil making 3+x useless for anything but single shot)

[eternal bane]

Unless I was using Scar with m125, everything else is red dot

[dim basin]

Shamelessly copying my own post but

[wraith radish]

Mobility reduction imo is key, if they aren't going tonhyper lean into class restrictions like battlefield

Various examples: long guns reduce sprint, crouch, prone, lean, clamber, and vehicle entry/exit speeds

[dim basin]

Yeah, using solely recoil control to 'balance' things at close range is bizarre

[wraith radish]

am engy humping a tank all game should benefit from rocking a pp2000 and no rpg, for example

quick in, quick out

holster/draw speed is another good area

(like, ignoring their other effects, silencers should massively reduce the above since they make the guns so long and heavy)

[burnt fractal]

Yeah and hk419 does 31 damage

[wraith radish]

I'm not even sure how you're supposed to quickly draw a hand cannon with a silencer quickly

things are bigger than most smgs 😄

[eternal bane]

From what I've seen, I can do consistent low dmg at mid range and if the 31 dmg misses due to recoil, they're still going to die. Hk419 is great at CQC, but beyond close/mid range, it's eh.

[acoustic pike]

imo i think we are going to have constant balancing problems with everything past 50m

[dim basin]

I mean if we keep on using recoil as a balancing factor and basing what counts as good recoil on how easy it is to hit a guy at 15m then yeah

[acoustic pike]

it seems to be combination of a few things. The 4x scopes are too harsh when it comes to multiple shots, they dont feel like intermediate sights and the visual recoil is just crazy when you get 3 tapped by a guy using a red dot smg. Player movement is a little apex like with the whole air strafing, mantle hopping sort of thing and idk theres just too many variable for it too be any kind of consistent

i do think the movement engine is a big part of it. its almost impossible to track someone hopping about if every gun isnt an actual laser

[dim basin]

Because you have two issues

• "This gun should be great at close ranges", gives gun a 5 sk and 700 rpm, then makes it have very low recoil to compensate

• result is a gun that you can reliably put a 3x scope in and still kill people from far away, as well as being ok from upclose

• "This gun should be great at medium ranges", gives gun a 3 sk and 600 rpm, then makes it have very high recoil to compensate

• End up with a gun that you can't really use at range because of the recoil, but that you can take advantage of the good TTK upclose

their intended niche gets swapped

[austere forum]

If you would like an intermediate sight you can just use slip (2x)

I use the 4x scopes sometimes with red dot top sight, works well

[dim basin]

Also, this is very much a pain
There is no inertia at all for changing direction, and it makes it so you are paradoxically more survivable with no armor at medium range
There is no reliable way to hit a snappy target changing directions instantly and erratically with a gun that takes time to hit the target, it's not even a skill thing

[acoustic pike]

i just dont know how you would go about solving it because i love the game it just feels a little bit samey like im grinding for the same high rof/low recoil meta all the time. damage is kinda meh i can deal with having to put 1 more bullet in if controlling spray is that much easier

[austere forum]

Does mean velocity is a significant stat to consider though, which is cool I guess

[dim basin]

For me at least, there are a few things

• Most guns should not be balanced around being hard to control, expecially guns that are supposed to be mid range, instead, controlability, ADS speed, and movespeed should be the most important close range effectiveness reduction
• There needs to be a slight bit of inertia, akin to something like CS:GO, so exploiting movement to dodge bullets isn't as easy (literally the only people that would even notice a difference are those that are used to do 360s with their camera the moment they get shot at)
• Armor can't be a one use only thing, nerf it's effectiveness if you need, but make it permanent

[acoustic pike]

too be honest i do use the slip a lot, its a good sight but then its a case of 'oh i have to grind however many kills to get the slip before i enjoy it' you get me

[austere forum]

Fair

[dim basin]

It still is important when people have SOME semblance of IRL inertia
You still need to lead shots, and guns with more or less velocity behave differently
As it stands tho, it's past being a skill thing when you cannot even do the 'calculate the players trajectory' part

[acoustic pike]

100% the movement thing needs to be adjusting. i feel like there's very little punishment being caught in the open when i can just look at the floor and wiggle my wrist like ive got no control. i suppose it very much depends on what kind of end product Doki has in mind

[hoary rivet]

i still think movement is fine, the low end needs to come up and tighten the window where you can jump again (because climbing is annoying a lot of the time)

[dim basin]

You know that thing where people complain about "they took an arcade game and tried to mash the settings into being a milsim and now it sucks"?
This feels like the opposite. It doesn't need to be a milsim, but it was built from the ground up with tactical and slower paced mechanics in mind, with individual mag counting, teamate healing and squad systems, with big battles with vehicles...
And then the movement speed cranked up to 11, the inertia completely removed, every class supplied with gadgets that are better at disposing of vehicles and fortifications than RPGs..
The movement just doesn't fit the rest of the game at all.

[acoustic pike]

couldnt have said it better myself

[dim basin]

I feel the opposite, the low end feels more than fine, and pretty alright. I can get to points in time, defend stuff, attack alright, have time to coordinate.
It's the high end that feels dissonant with the rest of the game.

[hoary rivet]

i'd rather supports be faster and rework armor to not be dogshit

thanks

[acoustic pike]

as far as i know the jump and mantle are 2 seperate keybinds. but i get what you're saying

so for example i have jump bound to scroll wheel down (apex habit) and mantle on space bar

[dim basin]

you'd be leaning into exactly what causes dissonance in the game's mechanics
you'd be making every tactical aspect of this game less important, and overall making the fact that they were even added kind of irrelevant

[hoary rivet]

okay well the armor system is irrelevant because limbs don't have a damage reduction and i have to shoot supports in the legs to avoid interacting with a dogshit implementation of the mechanic

it's not FUN to interact with supports and their armor

and the dissonance you're complaining about (specifically in the case of support) is that they, and their weapons, are balanced around having a second health pool

so they handle like shit

they move slowly

because dear god imagine if fucking supports with 162 MINIMUM effective hp had ads/move speeds of the smg's/ar's

[dim basin]

There is already armor talk going on a thread and people seem really keen on making it permanent(good), and honestly what i want is EXO the same gunfire protection as heavy armor, but with blast resistance so it's less of a tank and more of a nade spam resistance utility

[dim basin]

hell no, that's not what i want, nor what i ever said i wanted, what i want is for this game to actually lean into the mechanics it has set out for itself, even if it changes them along the way
Titanfall wouldn't be a cool game with slow-ass movement, but not because titanfall's mechanics are bad or because slow movement is bad, it's because they were fundamentally not made for eachother

You can't just plop on a movement paradigm in a game it wasn't meant for

Not when most of the mechanics were made with something else in mind

[hoary rivet]

okay well the armor system fails in it's design because you can't have a fundamental basis of a game designed with milsim in mind being fast ttk's and then randomly say "this guy gets to double that number"

[dim basin]

Oh, i agree with that!

Check out the armor thread lol

[blazing jasper]

Givvus the Tavor and MDR 😄 i would be so stoked to fondle an MDR in game

[gilded smelt]

Mormon cult rifle

[desert owl]

...What?

[gilded smelt]

https://reddit.com/r/longrange/s/wiBWg5B427

[desert owl]

Oh, right, the "fundamentalists." Trust me, the rest of us don't approve.

[gilded smelt]

I’ve met enough LDS people in my life to know most of them are fine. Or at least the ones I’ve met.

[desert owl]

Glad to hear it!

[hardy jackal]

I think HK419 is slightly overpowered in term of ttk and recoil. It's the perfect mix of a famas and M4, the hrecoil being more high is actually not enough to make it balanced imo.

[austere forum]

It has more recoil and faster ttk than the famas

That comparison doesn’t really make sense

But yeah it’s outclassed a fair few other guns now

[hardy jackal]

it's not a comparison more of "mix" like good damage and good RoF but still my point was on : better ttk and good recoil. And I didn't even count the magsize.

[burnt fractal]

I liked it before the insane rof buff

[hardy jackal]

it makes it go to the sky and pog ttk

[burnt fractal]

Basically

[modern cloak]

The long barrel changes are funny

Without the old lb the ttk is increased by 25% for some ars

And the recoil changed so little that it can't be even felt

Not even talking about other specs

[austere forum]

None of them are that severe

Generally speaking, discounting the possibility of enemies having lost their armour, it never goes over ~10% for any guns

[modern cloak]

For example HK419. It had a ttk of 291ms with lb for normal armor shooting at body. Now its ttk is 363ms. 363/100*100-100=24.7%

[austere forum]

One specific scenario having a 25% reduction does not apply to a general case.

Typically, not all shots hit the same body part and most players wear something other than medium chestplates

[modern cloak]

Fal-33.6%
Ak15-33.3%
Aug-25%
G36C-25%
Ak74-24.8%

As you can see its even more than 25% in general case

[modern cloak]

80% of players wear a normal body armor

I know what I'm talking about and those 25% are actually significant unlike the recoil changes

I can send you a link of an excel sheet with all the ttks and btks

Unfortunately can't do that here

[austere forum]

According to my last poll, it’s 29.7%

[austere forum]

Yeah experience really does not tell you much about how good guns are in a game like this. People are not precise enough by a long way to judge that meaningfully

[austere forum]

It likely omits a majority of the damage breakpoints by assuming every shot hits one spot. Personally I don’t do that.

[austere forum]

But I can say with confidence that for an average player shooting at the average undamaged target, if poll feedback from the community is accurate, the TTKs for those guns was shortened by this much by a long barrel:

FAL: 9.4%
AK15: 9.5%
AUG: 10.4%
G36C: 8.8%
AK74: 10.2%
HK419: 10.2%

When I say general case I mean the average outcome of all possible cases, weighted for how likely each of these cases is to occur. Not a modal case, that would be useless.

[modern cloak]

Still a lot

[modern cloak]

And still a lot

But in thoses cases when you are shooting at body with normal armor

It is feelable

[austere forum]

Yes, it is significant

You just exaggerated it by about 2.5x which is extremely misleading

[austere forum]

But less than half of what you assumed, which is critical.

[modern cloak]

No I didn't

I was initially talking about that case

[modern cloak]

And that's the actual ttk change for that case

And I'm talking about that one case

Not about average

When you must hit 5 times instead of 4 in chest with normal armor

[austere forum]

Initially you didn’t specify any case
You just said it boosts it by 25% for some ARs

[modern cloak]

Yeah I said it does boost ttk

And I did specify that it is when shooting at body with normal armor

[modern cloak]

.

I can say that everyone was playing with those guns because you can get that 25% ttk boost sometimes

[austere forum]

You said this

Which is what I then responded to

As you didn’t retract the original statement at any point it is still valid to say that that was misleading.

[modern cloak]

That's nice

[grim reef]

Add the sig spear 🙂

[open compass]

AR max damage range is too low. Making it like that was a HUGE design mistake.

[lilac cairn]

Most ARs need a buff to be on the level of others. The majority of ARs are below average or just bad, when guns like the HK, ACR, and M4 exist there really is no need for any of the others.

[austere forum]

M4 is not a good gun any more

AK74 and ACR are both just its superior

AUG, FAL, G36C are also generally agreed to be viable.

imo the ones that could use minor buffs are sg550, f2000, famas and ak5c

[eternal bane]

Famas update with the slight decrease h recoil made it a lot better. It's basically a SMG with AR range.

[frosty swallow]

I want to see some more SA80's - I cant imagine it would be too hard to add a L85a2 (with rail handguard) or a3 seeming as the L86a1 is already in the game.